*disable Lurk mode*
DJ
I'm still around. Whoof, I think it's been a little over a month since my
last post...
Anyhoo, I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday and New Years. :-)
~DJ
*re-enable lurk*
Rod Taylor
news:avqgg3$2fd$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> Hey all,
>
> I'm still around. Whoof, I think it's been a little over a month
since my
> last post...
>
> Anyhoo, I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday and New Years. :-)
>
Nice to see someone. It's been far too quiet on here lately. If people
don't start posting soon, I'm going to bore you all with the story of a
painting. (Ha! If you're not here, you won't be bored by it, will
you?)
Rod
Tom of Bunyon
"Rod Taylor" <rodtCUT...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3e213...@news1.mweb.co.za...
Don't thin the story out too much - otherwise we'll say "rePaint you
Thinner!".
NatarooToo
::waves at DJ::
I'm still here, too. I'm beginning to wonder where all this 'free time' is
that I expected once I finished school. I swear, I think I'm even busier
than I was before!
Whoof, indeed!
Falkon1313
>Nice to see someone. It's been far too quiet on here lately. If people
>don't start posting soon, I'm going to bore you all with the story of a
>painting. (Ha! If you're not here, you won't be bored by it, will
>you?)
Do tell. I like paintings. :)
I've been quiet do largely to holiday season work. And the fact that my to-do
list occupies several volumes now. heh.
Back to school Thursday. Whee.
Rod Taylor
Falkon1313 <falko...@aol.comeplay> wrote in message
news:20030112103000...@mb-cn.aol.com...
OK, since you asked, here's the story:
During the last year of the nineteenth century, about eighteen months
before Queen Victoria died, a young girl - an only child, doubtless her
father's pride and joy - sat for her portrait.
The girl grew to womanhood, married and had children. These children
grew up, married and gave their mother grandchildren. That's where I
came into the picture (if you'll pardon the pun) as I married her
granddaughter who had the painting. I knew 'Gran' for the last dozen
years of her long life, but I never paid much attention to the portrait.
It was in a heavy old, dark and decrepit frame and, when I first saw it,
it looked like one of those hand-coloured photographs that were popular
in those days.
About a month ago, my newly-married son and his wife wanted to throw it
out as the frame was in really bad condition and they didn't like it
either. I offered to restore the frame for them, but they weren't
interested. So, I took the portrait to keep in case their children
might want it one day.
Stripping the frame, I discovered that on the back of the picture was
the artist's signature, the date and the sitter's details. The
signature was simply 'Tennyson Cole'. I tried a web search, but found
only a Philip Tennyson Cole (1863-1937) who had painted some VIPs and
whose work is hung in some important Australian and New Zealand
galleries. He also had a portrait of King Edward V11 in the National
Portrait gallery in England. No references to South Africa. It seemed
unlikely to be the same painter, but I persevered. It's difficult to do
much of this kind of research over the festive season as so many people
are on holiday. I then found that he had lived in South Africa from
about 1890 to 1920 and had painted Sir Julius Wernher (the founder of de
Beers), Cecil John Rhodes, Lord Milner, Sir Alfred Beit, and other
notable people. It seemed unlikely that he would paint an unknown
child, although I discovered that he had painted Barney Barnato's
children. I needed a signature for confirmation, and couldn't find one,
except for a website whose cost was prohibitive.
Finally a few days ago, from one of the people with whom I'd made
contact in my hunt for information, I received confirmation that the
signature matches and I have a genuine Philip Tennyson Cole.
My son's great grandmother hangs in good company!
NatarooToo
It sounds like a story they would have on the show. Are you going to have
the portrait appraised?
Nat
"Rod Taylor" <rodtCUT...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3e23c...@news1.mweb.co.za...
Falkon1313
That is interesting. I'd never heard of the artist, but I have heard of some
of the people you mention that he painted. My own personal view is that the
portrait of a relatively unknown subject is the more significant than one of a
celebrity. Partly that's because the celebrity is, in a way, easier practice,
with a well-known, readily available image, while the unknown is a real test of
one's ability. Partly because it adds a touch of celebrity to the
non-celebrity.
Rod Taylor
news:vXSU9.84584$Sa3.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> That is just way cool, Rod! Have you ever seen 'Antiques Roadshow' on
TV?
> It sounds like a story they would have on the show. Are you going to
have
> the portrait appraised?
>
Occasionally we have similar programmes on TV, but I don't know of a
current local programme. I thought about having the portrait appraised
by Sotheby's, but was reluctant to spend the money. I don't really want
to sell it, although a LOT of money (which seems unlikely) might change
my mind. Having ascertained the provenance is sufficient for me. I'll
write up the details and keep them with the picture for my
grandchildren, if they're interested. At least if I die before that, my
sons might be a little less keen to throw it out again. Particularly so
when I've finished restoring the antique frame - that's a LOT of work.
Rod
Rod Taylor
> >From: "Rod Taylor"
> >
> >My son's great grandmother hangs in good company!
> >
>
> That is interesting. I'd never heard of the artist, but I have heard
of some
> of the people you mention that he painted. My own personal view is
that the
> portrait of a relatively unknown subject is the more significant than
one of a
> celebrity. Partly that's because the celebrity is, in a way, easier
practice,
> with a well-known, readily available image, while the unknown is a
real test of
> one's ability. Partly because it adds a touch of celebrity to the
> non-celebrity.
>
I'd never thought of it that way. I sort of assumed that a portrait
would be valued on the worth of the artist and the fame of the sitter.
From an artistic point of view, I can see that you're right about the
challenge of a non-celebrity. Particularly this would be true in the
case of a young Victorian girl, where her 'character' was unknown and
unformed.
I have virtually no biographical information on the artist, other than
some of his subjects. Presumably one would have to be reasonably
competent and well known to win commissions to paint a reigning British
monarch as well as some of the others I know of.
It was fun checking it out, now for the restoration of the frame, that's
going to be a loooong job.
Rod
NatarooToo
Oh, DO have it appraised! I'd love to hear what the appraiser would have to
say. That you know the provenance is a big plus...at least they seem to get
all excited about that on the Antiques Roadshow! They do have an English
version of the show. In fact, I believe we Yanks stole the idea (what's new
about that???). Anyway, good luck with your restoration of the frame. Be
sure and take before and after pictures so we can see your progress!
Nat
Tom of Bunyon
Be sure you check first to see if you should do anything to it - I've seen
cases where the frame is worth ten times what the painting is - or was,
before the person had it restored. It seems that "original petinas" are
worth big bux. If you refinish it, the value gets killed.
HopieLuLu
>don't start posting soon, I'm going to bore you all with the story of a
>painting. (Ha! If you're not here, you won't be bored by it, will
>you?)
>
>Rod
Hhhheeey! I've been trying to keep it up!!!!
~Hope~
~There are two kinds of people in the world: the Givers and the Takers. The
difference between the two is that the Takers eat well, and the Givers sleep
well at night~
HopieLuLu
>Do tell. I like paintings. :)
I know ! ;-)
HopieLuLu
>My son's great grandmother hangs in good company!
LOL Wonderful wonderful tale....I do love you so, Rod. You should write a
book.
Rod Taylor
news:20030114212617...@mb-mq.aol.com...
>
> Hhhheeey! I've been trying to keep it up!!!!
>
>
Me too!!!
Rod
Rod Taylor
It's a bit late for the 'before' pictures, the frame is already in
pieces. The underlying wood is solid and undamaged, but the ornate
gesso mouldings are badly chipped and some large bits are missing. The
inner frame needs almost complete regilding and matching the colours on
the new gesso and gilding those parts won't be an easy job. I'll post
'after' pictures when the job is done.
Rod
Rod Taylor
news:ao2V9.20622$Jm2....@news.bellsouth.net...
> > It was fun checking it out, now for the restoration of the frame,
that's
> > going to be a loooong job.
>
> Be sure you check first to see if you should do anything to it - I've
seen
> cases where the frame is worth ten times what the painting is - or
was,
> before the person had it restored. It seems that "original petinas"
are
> worth big bux. If you refinish it, the value gets killed.
>
I've done quite a bit of restoration of antiques over the years and I
appreciate your point. The turning point in terms of risk/value comes
when the piece is too badly damaged for its intended use. That's the
situation here. The 'art' is in just restoring the damage and not
remaking the entire frame. That's why it's a long, slow process working
on tiny areas at a time. Modern technology can make some jobs easier
(casting, for example), but mostly it's vital to use original methods
and materials rather than their modern equivalents (and some of the
materials are no longer easy to come by). If the job is done properly,
the repairs are invisible to all except the most expert of eyes. I
restored an antique mahogany table that once belonged to 'Gran'. It had
a scalloped edge that had a bad chip out of it. For several years, I
could see the repair, whereas few others could. Today, even I can't
find it!
Patinas are very difficult, if not impossible, to match, because they're
a function of ageing, oxidation, polishing and the like. An honours
degree in chemistry helps, but it's still very much a 'suck it and see'
process.
Rod
Rod Taylor
> >From: "Rod Taylor"
>
> >My son's great grandmother hangs in good company!
>
> LOL Wonderful wonderful tale....I do love you so, Rod. You should
write a
> book.
Thanks, Hope. I have about ten short stories written so far. Maybe
I'll write some more one day and start a collection of publisher's
rejection slips!
Rod
Big Guy
They have tried versions all over the place. They were commenting on the
problems they have in some cultures because people will NOT line up.
Apparently the British and American versions have long lines of people
standing patiently waiting their turn. We just queue up and stand there for
hours.
When they try that in parts of the Middle East (I think they mentioned Egypt
specifically) and Africa, it does not work because people will not stand in
line. They just push and shove and turn into a mob.
Big--not sure if that says good things or bad about us--Guy
"NatarooToo" <natar...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:062V9.87509$Sa3.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Big Guy
Big--but Hope, you might want to go easy on it--Guy
"Rod Taylor" <rodtCUT...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3e250...@news1.mweb.co.za...
Rod Taylor
news:u7aV9.11389$Qr4.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I read an article about the different versions of the show some time
ago.
> They have tried versions all over the place. They were commenting on
the
> problems they have in some cultures because people will NOT line up.
> Apparently the British and American versions have long lines of people
> standing patiently waiting their turn. We just queue up and stand
there for
> hours.
>
> When they try that in parts of the Middle East (I think they mentioned
Egypt
> specifically) and Africa, it does not work because people will not
stand in
> line. They just push and shove and turn into a mob.
>
Mostly we form queues here. Probably the British/European heritage.
There have been occasions when that self-discipline has broken down with
disastrous results.
Rod
John Gregory
> HopieLuLu <hopi...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> > Hhhheeey! I've been trying to keep it up!!!!
>
> Me too!!!
Something one learns to not take for granted with the passage of
time, eh?
--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
Does it take 500,000 parapsychologists to treat one megalomaniac?
jenna
I've been involved in a flurry of moving/decorating/buying new stuff
for my apartment activities.
I have to say, I would adore having a mean spirited troll pop in to
the NG. That always stirs up hilarity and wonderous retorts. *sigh* I
miss the good old days.
I could pretened to be a troll and come in and..erm.. Nevermind. I
think that was done before.
Eeh well.. back to lurking.
Jenna
John Gregory
> I have to say, I would adore having a mean spirited troll pop in to
> the NG.
tR00l'S r00L, d00D!!! were not mean!!! go back in tothe kithcen or to you're pr0n studio bithc!!! your a idot!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(*ahem*)
--
John Gregory ashbury at skypoint.com http://www.skypoint.com/ tilde ashbury
Thought for the moment:
Give 'em a number or give 'em a date, but never give 'em both at once.
MGris60003
>
>My son's great grandmother hangs in good company!
>
Wow, Rod, that was some story!
Sorry I've not been around much, but I do love to hear your stories.
Mandy
"We cannot direct the wind...but we can adjust the sails"
MGris60003
>::waves at DJ::
>
Me too!
>I'm still here, too. I'm beginning to wonder where all this 'free time' is
>that I expected once I finished school. I swear, I think I'm even busier
>than I was before!
So? Whachaa doing?
MGris60003
>I have to say, I would adore having a mean spirited troll pop in to
>the NG. That always stirs up hilarity and wonderous retorts. *sigh* I
>miss the good old days.
>
Funny you should bring that up. I found some "troll" stuff the other day.
Oh the good ole days.