'Industrial' 440?
Steve Cowell
I've been told that about this time period there were some very
desirable motors used in this application... 'industrial' was what
one guy said. Is there such a thing? How do I know if I've got
one?
__
Steve
.
Hemi4268
Some industrial motors will not fit into any standard car. The distributer
hole is not correct and will need machined out of the block. The crank may not
be correct as it might be an extended flange unit. The mounting pad may be
ground off like the hemis. The heads could be way different not allowing
standard headers to be used.
Larry
Steve
True of the industrial 413-3 and 361-3 motors, not true of the 413-1 or
-2, 361-1 or -2, or 440 motorhome motors.
About the only difference between a motorhome 440 and a car 440 is that
the motorhome unit will have different heads with extra cooling jackets
around the spark plugs, and will use the small (10 mm?) wedge-base plugs
instead of gasket-base plugs like regular 440's use. It may also have
significantly lower compression, but thats a result of the pistons used,
not the heads. The industrial 440 head uses the same headers (and same
EVERYTHING except spark plugs) as a 906 or 452 head. I'm fairly certain
that even the chamber volume is the same. It will probably also have a
roller timing chain with a steel cam gear in place of the awful nylon
cam gear that passenger car 440s of that era used.
In short, the motorhome 440 was never really taken to nearly the same
level of development that the industrial 413-3 and 361-3 were. No need
to, as the 413-3 and 361-3 remained in production (along with the
motorhome 440) through 1975 when Chrysler got out of the heavy truck and
industrial engine market. The 440 motorhome engine replaced the 413-1
and 413-2 which were themselves used in motorhomes and medium duty
trucks. The 413-3 was primarily used in *big* twin-axle dump trucks and
light/medium-duty tractor-trailer rigs. The 361-3 and "premium 318" were
common engines in fullsize and midsize school busses, respectively.
Steve Cowell
"Steve" <n...@spam.thanks> wrote in message news:3C0529E...@spam.thanks...
...
> About the only difference between a motorhome 440 and a car 440 is that
> the motorhome unit will have different heads with extra cooling jackets
> around the spark plugs, and will use the small (10 mm?) wedge-base plugs
> instead of gasket-base plugs like regular 440's use. It may also have
> significantly lower compression, but thats a result of the pistons used,
> not the heads. The industrial 440 head uses the same headers (and same
> EVERYTHING except spark plugs) as a 906 or 452 head. I'm fairly certain
> that even the chamber volume is the same.
So it's not any more desirable than any other 440? No 4-bolt main, etc?
> It will probably also have a
> roller timing chain with a steel cam gear in place of the awful nylon
> cam gear that passenger car 440s of that era used.
What year did that start? Does my '67 have one of those?
Thanks for the info, BTW.
__
Steve (originator)
.
Steve
>
>So it's not any more desirable than any other 440? No 4-bolt main, etc?
>
Smallblock chevies need 4-bolt mains. Big-block Mopars and FE Fords have
deep-skirt blocks where the main caps slide down in grooves between
bulkheads cast and machined into the block. The Hemi's had cross-bolted
mains, but a conventional "4-bolt main" is impossible (and utterly
unnecessary) on a deep-skirt block.
That being said, it likely does have desirable heads (the quick way to
tell is to look for the little bitty spark plugs with beveled seats
instead of gaskets), especially for a daily driver. The extra cooling
will let you run a bit more vacuum advance on the street without
pinging, giving you a bit better efficiency. It *may* also have a
roller cam (the cam being very mild). But it will likely have
low-compression pistons.
All in all, its a good piece to start from. The motorhome/industrial
motors probably got a good bit more TLC in parts selection and assembly
than the passenger car motors. But its not worth paying a whole lot more
for.
>It will probably also have a
>roller timing chain with a steel cam gear in place of the awful nylon
>cam gear that passenger car 440s of that era used.
>
>
>What year did that start? Does my '67 have one of those?
>
I don't know when it started, but it was *way* back there so yours
probably has one (if it still has the original timing chain and gears).
The goal of using nylon was to eliminate timing chain "whirr" noise, but
the result was a *ton* of big American v8s that died prematurely when
the chain slipped. (All of the big 3 used nylon cam gears for *way* too
many years). Chrysler, at least, was smart enough to use roller chains
on HP 340s, Hemis, and (I believe) 440-6 motors.
RedNeck TookOver Hell
a "motorhome" head gasket
No "roller cams' were ever used from the factory, no roller chains, and ALL
1972 440's had low compression.
The last 3 digits on true "motorhome" heads are 213 and they have the Chevrolet
"peanut" sparkplugs
>The extra cooling
>will let you run a bit more vacuum advance on the street without
>pinging, giving you a bit better efficiency. It *may* also have a
>roller cam (the cam being very mild). But it will likely have
>low-compression pistons.
Carl (Juvenile) Fisher has requested that I post this notification that he
considers me and all posters in this ng to be "juvenile" He has agreed to
compensate me for freeing up his valuable time monitoring other newsgroups
with similiar failings.
Steve
>No extra cooling unless you drill the block for the water passages and you use
>a "motorhome" head gasket
>No "roller cams' were ever used from the factory,
>
I never said they were (well, they WERE.... starting in '85 on 318s, but
thats beside the point.)
> no roller chains,
>
Then what do you call the factory chain used on all 340s?