Chinese Epiphones - better or worse?
eDog
have they even slightly improved?
Worste case: they would drive one to search for a used epiphone made in
Korea.
Ether
The Chinese Epi's look good, and the finish wuality seems about the
same. The Chinese Les Pauls are heavier than the Korean guitars. About
as heavy as a Gibson.
--E
gatt
"eDog" <eD...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97C1806FFE4C...@130.81.64.196...
> Now that most Epiphones are made in China, have they declined in quality
> or
> have they even slightly improved?
Depends on the plant. The high end, (EE serial numbers) are made in a
plant owned by Gibson. Mine is flawless.
http://www.damnnearwiley.com/VoodooChile.jpg Even the wiring is
tolerable, although I'm taking the old coaxial-braided wiring out of my '78
Gibson.
Our other guitar players has two Gibson LPs and just bought a barely-used
Korean Epi LP. As far as feel and quality, his and mine are
interchangeable. If you closed your eyes and somebody handed you one or the
other it would be pretty hard to guess which it was. The verdict is out on
whether the quality is any better than the Epi SG I have:
http://www.audio-electric-shop.de/shop/catalog/images/Epiphone-SG400Custom.jpg
I was afraid they would sound TOO similar, but that's not the case at all.
He also owns a '90s Gibson LP that sounds great now, but it was crap. The
finish is already coming off and he had to redo the wiring himself anyway.
-c
eDog
equation?
Are they high end Epiphone guitars?
"gatt" <LiveFromTh...@gfy.com> wrote in
news:fy39g.896$Oh1...@news01.roc.ny:
>
> Depends on the plant. The high end, (EE serial numbers) are
made in
> a plant owned by Gibson. Mine is flawless.
> http://www.damnnearwiley.com/VoodooChile.jpg Even the
wiring is
> tolerable, although I'm taking the old coaxial-braided wiring
out of
> my '78 Gibson.
>
--
Looking for a clue.
jpol...@rgs.uci.edu
never had a Korean Epi, so I can't compare, but I've been happy with my
Dot.
Jim
I won't buy Chinese for political reasons. I'd suggest that you find a
used LIMITED EDITION type Korean Epiphone to compare to the Chinese,
before purchase. My opinion is that the Korean Limited Editions play
better than the regular Korean. You'll see the "limited edition"
stamped on the back of the headstock, and the serial number will
probably start with I or U.
eDog
opening with regard to the conditions that Chinese factory workers work
under.
But to tell the truth, if I boycotted goods because of the policies of the
nations in which the factories reside I would probably have to shun
american made guitars too.
Jim <as...@beforeyousend.com> wrote:
news:1269qos...@corp.supernews.com:
> I won't buy Chinese for political reasons.
Jim
> The recent Frontline about the fate of the "tank man" was pretty eye
> opening with regard to the conditions that Chinese factory workers work
> under.
>
> But to tell the truth, if I boycotted goods because of the policies of the
> nations in which the factories reside I would probably have to shun
> american made guitars too.
But as you mention, it's not just governmental policies, it's human
rights for the people making what you buy. I don't want to have
anything to do with supporting what is going on in China, and I don't
want to contribute to the transfer of wealth from the US to China.
Rob Duncan
> How would the Epiphone BB King Lucille guitars fit into that
> equation?
>
> Are they high end Epiphone guitars?
Theres no such thing as high end Epiphone anything. They are exactly like
Fenders Squier guitars. Second line knock-offs intending to fill the need
of people who cant afford, or are too wise, to pay out the big cashola for a
product only slightly better....
Rob
Jim
> "eDog" <eD...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns97C19C245EBE...@130.81.64.196...
>
>>How would the Epiphone BB King Lucille guitars fit into that
>>equation?
>>
>>Are they high end Epiphone guitars?
>
>
> Theres no such thing as high end Epiphone anything.
He's obviously using the term "high end" relative to other Ephiphone
products.
The "high end" Epiphones used to be the Limited Editions and the
Elite/Elitist line. I don't know, since they went Chinese. ...and I'm
not sure where the Lucille falls in the spectrum.
Bottom line: With all guitars, the proof is in the playing. Somethin'
tells me Rob has never played an Elitist or a Limited Edition.
Sasquatch
"Rob Duncan" <robtakethi...@gobigwest.com> wrote in message
news:mq99g.22$jX.4...@news.sisna.com...
>
> "eDog" <eD...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns97C19C245EBE...@130.81.64.196...
>> How would the Epiphone BB King Lucille guitars fit into that
>> equation?
>>
>> Are they high end Epiphone guitars?
>
> Theres no such thing as high end Epiphone anything. They are exactly like
> Fenders Squier guitars. Second line knock-offs intending to fill the need
> of people who cant afford, or are too wise, to pay out the big cashola for
> a product only slightly better....
>
>
> Rob
Rob,
Have you ever tried the Epiphone John Lennon Casino or Paul McCartney
acoustic? They are made in Memphis and Montana and are as good as any Gibson
coming out of the same factories. I wish Epiphone made more guitars to that
quality level but they do have a few.
Sasquatch
Ether
Sasquatch wrote:
> "Rob Duncan" <robtakethi...@gobigwest.com> wrote in message
> news:mq99g.22$jX.4...@news.sisna.com...
> >
> > "eDog" <eD...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> > news:Xns97C19C245EBE...@130.81.64.196...
> >> How would the Epiphone BB King Lucille guitars fit into that
> >> equation?
> >>
> >> Are they high end Epiphone guitars?
> >
> > Theres no such thing as high end Epiphone anything. They are exactly like
> > Fenders Squier guitars. Second line knock-offs intending to fill the need
> > of people who cant afford, or are too wise, to pay out the big cashola for
> > a product only slightly better....
> >
> >
> > Rob
>
> Rob,
> Have you ever tried the Epiphone John Lennon Casino or Paul McCartney
> acoustic? They are made in Memphis and Montana and are as good as any Gibson
> coming out of the same factories.
Yes...
> I wish Epiphone made more guitars to that
> quality level
They do. They're called "Gibsons".
> but they do have a few.
There IS no Epiphone. What's on the headstock is decided by Gibson
corp.
> Sasquatch
--E
Sasquatch
"Ether" <et...@x-mail.net> wrote in message
news:1147493840.3...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Without going into a big long spiel here, Epiphone used to make some fine
hollowbody guitars that were not Gibson copies. I wish they still made some
of them to the quality specs as the current JL Casino. Yes, Gibson owns
Epiphone. But there are no Gibson Broadways, Emperors, Rivieras, Sheratons,
or Zephyrs. Gibson Memphis' ES-175, ES-335, CS-336, L-5. etc. are not
Epiphones nor vice versa.
JeffinMS
> corp.
>
Wow, after readin thread after thread after thread (and posting to them to
since I own a couple of Epiphones) about Epiphones, finally a post to end it
all. I no longer see any reason to post anything about Epiphones since there
IS no Epiphone. Glad to know I just own two Gibsons with a diferent name.
Well, I guess that about does it. Ether ended the Epiphone debate with one
logical sentence. Thanks Ether.
JK
Jeff
Keith Adams
them. The Epiphone guitars were equal if not superior in quality to the
Gibsons. Epiphone was a major competitor. Why Gibson even goes by that
name is a mystery to me. Orville Gibson was a mandolin builder who did
little more than act as a consultant to Gibson between the years of
1902 till around 1910. A body shape or name on a headstock is
misleading. Fender? Gibson? Not quite. More like brands X and Znews:Xns97C1806FFE4C...@130.81.64.196...
Ether
Those days are long gone.
> I wish they still made some
> of them to the quality specs as the current JL Casino. Yes, Gibson owns
> Epiphone.
Exactly. Epiphone is only a name these days.
> But there are no Gibson Broadways, Emperors, Rivieras, Sheratons,
> or Zephyrs. Gibson Memphis' ES-175, ES-335, CS-336, L-5. etc. are not
> Epiphones nor vice versa.
That's only because Gibson Corp. decides that it should be so.
--E
Ether
JeffinMS wrote:
> "Ether" <et...@x-mail.net> wrote in message
> news:1147493840.3...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > There IS no Epiphone. What's on the headstock is decided by Gibson
> > corp.
> >
>
> Wow, after readin thread after thread after thread (and posting to them to
> since I own a couple of Epiphones) about Epiphones, finally a post to end it
> all. I no longer see any reason to post anything about Epiphones since there
> IS no Epiphone.
You can post whatever you want about Epiphone. It's a somewhat
distinctive line of guitars. Just don't say something as ridiculous as,
"I wish Epiphone made...". Epiphone doesn't MAKE anything. Gibson
Corp. makes all Epiphone and Gibson guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
the relative quality of each.
> Glad to know I just own two Gibsons with a diferent name.
> Well, I guess that about does it. Ether ended the Epiphone debate with one
> logical sentence. Thanks Ether.
You're welcome.
--E
JeffinMS
>>
>> Without going into a big long spiel here, Epiphone used to make some fine
>> hollowbody guitars that were not Gibson copies.
>
> Those days are long gone.
>
Naaa, they arent. The Wildkat series is a series of decent Epiphone Hollow
Bodies which are NOT Gibson copies.
Sasquatch
Thanks for setting me on the right path there Ether.
Sasquatch
Sasquatch
Are you related to Guncho?
Sasquatch
Mike Hartigan
robtakethi...@gobigwest.com says...
>
> "eDog" <eD...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns97C19C245EBE...@130.81.64.196...
> > How would the Epiphone BB King Lucille guitars fit into that
> > equation?
> >
> > Are they high end Epiphone guitars?
>
> Theres no such thing as high end Epiphone anything. They are exactly like
> Fenders Squier guitars. Second line knock-offs intending to fill the need
> of people who cant afford, or are too wise, to pay out the big cashola for a
> product only slightly better....
Texan and a Casino. Go figure!
Mike Hartigan
et...@x-mail.net says...
> >
> > Without going into a big long spiel here, Epiphone used to make some fine
> > hollowbody guitars that were not Gibson copies.
>
> Those days are long gone.
>
>
> > But there are no Gibson Broadways, Emperors, Rivieras, Sheratons,
> > or Zephyrs. Gibson Memphis' ES-175, ES-335, CS-336, L-5. etc. are not
> > Epiphones nor vice versa.
>
> That's only because Gibson Corp. decides that it should be so.
So you're saying that the days are long gone when Epi made some fine
guitars that were not Gibson copies, yet they make some fine guitars
that are not Gibson copies because Gibson decided that it should be
so??? Sorry -- I'm having trouble following you. Which is it?
Mike Hartigan
et...@x-mail.net says...
Where is 'Guncho' when you need him?
Rob Duncan
"Mike Hartigan" <mi...@hartigan.dot.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ed03206...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
They still make the models he plays...?
Rob
Mike Hartigan
Ether
Let me make it simple for you:
There was once a company called "Epiphone". That company no longer
exists. "Epiphone" survives ONLY as a name controlled by Gibson Corp.
Epiphone does not make guitars, because Epiphone is not a company.
Gibson Corp. makes all "Epiphone" guitars, and indeed Gibson Corp.
decides whether the Epiphone name lives or dies.
See brief Epiphone history here:
https://www.charityfolks.com/sponsors/sponsors_epiphone.asp
Note especially what happens from 1970 onward.
Clear?
--E
Ether
Mike, were you born with brain damage, or did you acquire it later in
life?
--E
Ether
Made by Gibson Corp. Clear?
--E
Angof
Bah this was an interesting thread until now.
Angof
>
Jim
> Mike Hartigan wrote:
>
>>In article <1147548676.4...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>>et...@x-mail.net says...
>>
>>>>Without going into a big long spiel here, Epiphone used to make some fine
>>>>hollowbody guitars that were not Gibson copies.
>>>
>>>Those days are long gone.
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>>>But there are no Gibson Broadways, Emperors, Rivieras, Sheratons,
>>>>or Zephyrs. Gibson Memphis' ES-175, ES-335, CS-336, L-5. etc. are not
>>>>Epiphones nor vice versa.
>>>
>>>That's only because Gibson Corp. decides that it should be so.
>>
>>So you're saying that the days are long gone when Epi made some fine
>>guitars that were not Gibson copies, yet they make some fine guitars
>>that are not Gibson copies because Gibson decided that it should be
>>so??? Sorry -- I'm having trouble following you. Which is it?
>
>
> Let me make it simple for you:
Simply WRONG.
Epiphone is more than just a name. It's a division of Gibson, with its
own president and employees.
>
> There was once a company called "Epiphone". That company no longer
> exists. "Epiphone" survives ONLY as a name controlled by Gibson Corp.
> Epiphone does not make guitars, because Epiphone is not a company.
Same as Cadillac is not a company? Your distinctions are meaningless.
MANY companies are held by larger corporations. So what? It's not
inherently a good thing or a bad thing. It depends on the management of
the individual company/brand name.
> Gibson Corp. makes all "Epiphone" guitars, and indeed Gibson Corp.
> decides whether the Epiphone name lives or dies.
When it comes down to it, MACHINES make Epiphones, now in China. The
SAME MACHINES make Gibsons in the U.S.
>
> See brief Epiphone history here:
>
> https://www.charityfolks.com/sponsors/sponsors_epiphone.asp
>
> Note especially what happens from 1970 onward.
Doesn't of that information contradict your previous posts? Was it you
saying that there's no such thing as original Epiphone guitars being made?
>
> Clear?
No, you obviously weren't. Does this help?
>
> --E
>
Ether
> Ether wrote:
> > Mike Hartigan wrote:
> >
> >>In article <1147548676.4...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >>et...@x-mail.net says...
> >>
> >>>>Without going into a big long spiel here, Epiphone used to make some fine
> >>>>hollowbody guitars that were not Gibson copies.
> >>>
> >>>Those days are long gone.
> >>>
> >>>[...]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>But there are no Gibson Broadways, Emperors, Rivieras, Sheratons,
> >>>>or Zephyrs. Gibson Memphis' ES-175, ES-335, CS-336, L-5. etc. are not
> >>>>Epiphones nor vice versa.
> >>>
> >>>That's only because Gibson Corp. decides that it should be so.
> >>
> >>So you're saying that the days are long gone when Epi made some fine
> >>guitars that were not Gibson copies, yet they make some fine guitars
> >>that are not Gibson copies because Gibson decided that it should be
> >>so??? Sorry -- I'm having trouble following you. Which is it?
> >
> >
> > Let me make it simple for you:
>
> Simply WRONG.
No, you're the one who's WRONG. See below.
> Epiphone is more than just a name.
Horseshit.
> It's a division of Gibson, with its own president and employees.
Which bears no resemblance to, nor has any connection to, the original
Epiphone. As you say: it is merely a "division of Gibson".
Thank you for confirming what I said before.
>
> >
> > There was once a company called "Epiphone". That company no longer
> > exists. "Epiphone" survives ONLY as a name controlled by Gibson Corp.
> > Epiphone does not make guitars, because Epiphone is not a company.
>
> Same as Cadillac is not a company?
Cadillac is a division of GM. Just as Oldsmobile was. Oops! Where the
fuck is Oldsmobile now? GONE. Because GM decided to get rid of the
line. Just as Gibson controls what happens to Epiphone.
Not that Cadillac or Oldsmobile bear (or bore) any resemblance to the
original companies.
Did you not read the history of Epiphone?
https://www.charityfolks.com/sponsors/sponsors_epiphone.asp
Cadillac, at least, was never basically defunct, then produced in
China, then revived as a budget product line.
> Your distinctions are meaningless.
So...if I got a factory in China to make watches, then stuck the
Cartier name on it, it would be the same as an original Cartier watch?
These distinctions mean EVERYTHING. It's like the current Russian
TUNG-SOL tubes--they have NOTHING to do with the original TUNG-SOL
company. It's just a name stuck on a label.
> MANY companies are held by larger corporations. So what? It's not
> inherently a good thing or a bad thing. It depends on the management of
> the individual company/brand name.
In the case of Epiphone (or Oldsmobile), the current product has ceased
to have any connection to the company and environment that developed
the original product. It has become only a name.
> > Gibson Corp. makes all "Epiphone" guitars, and indeed Gibson Corp.
> > decides whether the Epiphone name lives or dies.
>
> When it comes down to it, MACHINES make Epiphones, now in China. The
> SAME MACHINES make Gibsons in the U.S.
Prove that the original apparatus used by Epaminondas Stathopoulo to
make Epiphone guitars in the early and mid-1900s is now being used to
make current Epiphone guitars. (Answer: You can't. Because it isn't.)
By contrast, Fender at least has a common thread of personnel who
worked for the company under it's various management regimes. Today's
"Epiphone" has no such thread.
> >
> > See brief Epiphone history here:
> >
> > https://www.charityfolks.com/sponsors/sponsors_epiphone.asp
> >
> > Note especially what happens from 1970 onward.
>
> Doesn't of that information contradict your previous posts? Was it you
> saying that there's no such thing as original Epiphone guitars being made?
The original "Epiphone" doesn't exist any more. As you said, it's
merely "a division of Gibson." A name, and that's all. They could call
it FartTone, for all it has to do with the original Epiphone. Gibson
Corp. decides what products they make.
> > Clear?
>
> No, you obviously weren't.
Obviously, I was quite clear.
> Does this help?
Read my comments above for an education you so desperately need.
--E
Jim
Your post is meaningless mumbo-jumbo. What IS your point?
My point was that Epiphone is a DISTINCT part of Gibson, with their own
employees. I never said that they made IDENTICAL guitars as were made
pre Gibson. I never said that they are the same company as pre-Gibson.
I'm not sure what your original point was, or what they heck you are
trying to argue above.
I *thought* you said that Epiphone is nothing but a name. Since they
have a president of the division, and Epiphone employees, you are
OBVIOUSLY wrong.
I'm well aware of the Epiphone history. I own Epiphone guitars. NOT
because of the history of the previous company, but because they are
good guitars.
Rob Duncan
"Jim" <as...@beforeyousend.com> wrote
> I'm well aware of the Epiphone history. I own Epiphone guitars. NOT
> because of the history of the previous company, but because they are good
> guitars.
For their price.
Rob
Ether
JESUS, Jim. Go back and read the thread before posting.
The OP said: "Have you ever tried the Epiphone John Lennon Casino or
Paul McCartney acoustic? They are made in Memphis and Montana and are
as good as any Gibson coming out of the same factories. I wish Epiphone
made more guitars to that quality level."
I said: "They do. They're called 'Gibsons'."
My point: It is asinine to "wish Epiphone made more" high-quality
guitars. Gibson Corp. produces these guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
how good or bad they are, and what name is on the headstock. If you
want a better guitar, go buy a better guitar, and don't worry about
whether "Epiphone" is on the headstock.
I can only imagine that the OP has some sort of misplaced, diehard
brand loyalty to "Epiphone" because of the nice guitars that were made
by a long-dead Greek immigrant a long time in the past. That "Epiphone"
doesn't exist. Now, it's just a name.
> I *thought* you said that Epiphone is nothing but a name.
It is. See above.
> Since they have a president of the division, and Epiphone employees, you are
> OBVIOUSLY wrong.
I could set up a company called "Jensen", complete with a board of
directors and employees, and set up a factory in Italy that makes
speakers, but that wouldn't mean that it has anything to do with the
good old Jensen. You might as well call it "TUNG-SOL" or "Mullard".
So, Jim, YOU are "OBVIOUSLY wrong". Pull your head out.
> I'm well aware of the Epiphone history. I own Epiphone guitars. NOT
> because of the history of the previous company, but because they are
> good guitars.
Somehow, you manage to add 1 and 1, and get 7. See above.
--E
Ether
Did you realize that your name spelled backward is "Fogna"?
--E
Sasquatch
Sorry Ether, it seems everyone knows that Epiphone is a wholly owned
subsidiary of Gibson. I'm not going to start saying "Gibson Casino", or
"Epiphone (a wholly owned subsidiary of Gibson) Casino", or "Epiphone
(although Epiphone really does not exist, they are just a part of Gibson)
Casino" or whatever you are wanting. Your point is pretty anal as far as I'm
concerned. I realize Epiphone is a division of Gibson but I'm not going to
make disclaimers, footnotes, or walk on needles with my grammar because I'm
afraid you will be offended if I don't follow your strict guidelines for
discussing Epiphone.
Sasquatch
Ether
I hope you and Jim are enjoying your respective anal cavities.
Like I said: It is asinine to "wish Epiphone made more" high-quality
guitars. Gibson Corp. produces these guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
how good or bad they are, and what name is on the headstock.
You might as well say, "I wish Squier would make more high-quality
guitars." That would be equally moronic.
--E
Guncho
And how is Fender or Gibson any different???
Also, Epiphone is legally a seperate company from Gibson even though
they are a owned by Gibson. If you don't agree with that, then you
must be 12 and have no concept of how large business' work.
Chris
Guncho
I think this Ether is trying to take my position as village idiot and
quite frankly, I don't like it. Not one I bit I tells ya.
:)
Chris
Guncho
Ether wrote:
> JeffinMS wrote:
> > "Ether" <et...@x-mail.net> wrote in message
> > news:1147493840.3...@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > There IS no Epiphone. What's on the headstock is decided by Gibson
> > > corp.
> > >
> >
> > Wow, after readin thread after thread after thread (and posting to them to
> > since I own a couple of Epiphones) about Epiphones, finally a post to end it
> > all. I no longer see any reason to post anything about Epiphones since there
> > IS no Epiphone.
>
> You can post whatever you want about Epiphone. It's a somewhat
> distinctive line of guitars. Just don't say something as ridiculous as,
> "I wish Epiphone made...". Epiphone doesn't MAKE anything. Gibson
> Corp. makes all Epiphone and Gibson guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
> the relative quality of each.
How do you know this???
You don't.
For all you know Epiphone is allowed to design whatever guitars they
want and don't need Gibson's approval as long as they show a profit.
You have no idea.
Chris
Guncho
We are not relations.
:0
Chris
Jim
...which is a factor for most guys. I can afford Gibson. I CANNOT
justify their cost.
When it comes to SG types, I prefer the Epiphone G-400 to both the
standard and the "worn finish" Gibson. PREFER it. The only Gibson that
I liked better in my hands was the '61 reissue, and I could not justify
the cost.
When it comes to Les Paul types, if I were buying today, it would
probably be a good used Gibson, a good used Epiphone Limited Edition, or
an Epiphone Elitist model. Which ever played right in my hands. But I
won't pay what they want for a new Gibson.
gatt
>> Theres no such thing as high end Epiphone anything. They are exactly
>> like Fenders Squier guitars.
Total bullshit. Start with the glued-on neck and arch top. You're giving
people bad information.
-gatt
Gibson Les Paul owner, Epiphone Les Paul owner.
gatt
>> I wish Epiphone made more guitars to that
>> quality level
>
> They do. They're called "Gibsons".
More bullshit. The last two guys I've recorded with who owned new Gibsons
went out and bought Epiphone Les Pauls just like I did, for the same reason:
The new Gibsons are crap, before you even consider the ridiculous price.
-gatt
Gibson and Epiphone Les Paul player
gatt
>
>> Naaa, they arent. The Wildkat series is a series of decent Epiphone
>> Hollow
>> Bodies which are NOT Gibson copies.
>
> Made by Gibson Corp. Clear?
The new Epis with EE serial numbers are made in the Gibson factory in China.
-c
gatt
> There was once a company called "Epiphone". That company no longer
> exists. "Epiphone" survives ONLY as a name controlled by Gibson Corp.
> Epiphone does not make guitars,
Pedantry aside, one can buy Les Pauls bearing the name Gibson or Epiphone.
Gibson quality control aside (the last two new Gibsons guys I worked with
bought had to be sent back for warrantee service before their first gig, and
that includes a $5,500 wine w/ebony fretboard custom), they're about the
same.
I can plug one of our band's THREE GIBSON LES PAULS or TWO EPIPHONE LES
PAULS into my Marshall stack and except for the Goth which has different
pickups and the '78 which has P-90s, can't tell the difference. Neither
playing, recording nor performing. It was that way when I recorded my first
album with entirely different Epi and Gibson instruments, again when I
recorded in an industrial metal band with a Gibson studio LP, when I
recorded my third album, this time in my current band, using two Gibsons and
an EPI SG, and now when I have five LPs from which to choose.
That's reality, except that three of the guitars cost 2-4x as much as the
Epis. For that much, I'd take two or three Epis and have a standby guitar
and another for alternate tuning. But I don't gig with my Gibson anymore
'cause my Epi does at least as good of a job.
-c
gatt
"Rob Duncan" <robtakethi...@gobigwest.com> wrote in message
news:UUP9g.25$GR.3...@news.sisna.com...
>> I'm well aware of the Epiphone history. I own Epiphone guitars. NOT
>> because of the history of the previous company, but because they are good
>> guitars.
>
> For their price.
Once again, I own a Gibson, I own an Epi. If I need a third and want a new
guitar, it will be an Epi. For both the price and the playability.
As to the original question of whether Chinese Epis are "better or worse"
than Korean guitars, I've not found a difference between the three-year-old
Epi our other guitar player just bought and my new Chinese Epi, nor have I
found a qualitative difference between that and the Gibsons we own except
for my '78 which has ten times the quality of wiring that his '98 Gibson LP
has.
-c
gatt
"JeffinMS" <tank...@123yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eSl9g.20803$Qq.1...@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>Glad to know I just own two Gibsons with a diferent name. Well, I guess
>that about does it. Ether ended the Epiphone debate with one logical
>sentence. Thanks Ether.
Yeah, man....I just bought a $5500 flametop Gibson Les Paul for $700!
AWESOME DEAL! Check it out:
Mike Hartigan
cgu...@hotmail.com says...
> I think this Ether is trying to take my position as village idiot and
> quite frankly, I don't like it. Not one I bit I tells ya.
>
> :)
You're in real danger of losing your crown, Chris. Don't let him get
away with it!
JeffinMS
"gatt" <LiveFromTh...@gfy.com> wrote in message
news:c87ag.1187$Oh1...@news01.roc.ny...
My Wildkat seriel starts out with I040...wheres it made?
Guncho
No one out stupids me!
:)
Chris
The Repair Guy
>Gibson quality control aside (the last two new Gibsons
>guys I worked with bought had to be sent back for
>warrantee service before their first gig, and that includes
>a $5,500 wine w/ebony fretboard custom), they're about
>the same.
Wow. I bought a new wine red LP Custom around
1980 - I think it was $1200. They must be a LOT
better guitars nowadays, eh?
The Repair Guy
repairguy1993 dot netfirms dot com
The Repair Guy
Ether
It's typical of the true moron to think that his extreme superior is an
"idiot".
You amuse me.
--E
Ether
The Repair Guy wrote:
> "Guncho" <cgu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >No one out stupids me!
>
> I'll second that.
>
> The Repair Guy
Oh, I don't know, RG. You have your moments. (But not nearly as bad as
some of the rest of the zoo. They're making AGA look like the National
Academy of Sciences. And that's DAMN hard to do.)
--E
Ether
ALL Epiphones are made in a factory either owned or paid by Gibson
Corp.
--E
Ether
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > There IS no Epiphone. What's on the headstock is decided by Gibson
> >> > corp.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Wow, after readin thread after thread after thread (and posting to them
> >> to
> >> since I own a couple of Epiphones) about Epiphones, finally a post to end
> >> it
> >> all. I no longer see any reason to post anything about Epiphones since
> >> there
> >> IS no Epiphone.
> >
> > You can post whatever you want about Epiphone. It's a somewhat
> > distinctive line of guitars. Just don't say something as ridiculous as,
> > "I wish Epiphone made...". Epiphone doesn't MAKE anything. Gibson
> > Corp. makes all Epiphone and Gibson guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
> > the relative quality of each.
> >
> >> Well, I guess that about does it. Ether ended the Epiphone debate with
> >> one
> >> logical sentence. Thanks Ether.
> >
> >
> > --E
> >
>
> Are you related to Guncho?
>
> Sasquatch
Are you related to FEMA's Michael Brown?
--E
Ether
You're right. You ARE the village idiot.
--E
Sasquatch
>
> Like I said: It is asinine to "wish Epiphone made more" high-quality
> guitars. Gibson Corp. produces these guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
> how good or bad they are, and what name is on the headstock.
>
> You might as well say, "I wish Squier would make more high-quality
> guitars." That would be equally moronic.
>
> --E
>
OK Ether. Whatever you say.
Sasquatch
Ether
At least you're learning.
--E
The Repair Guy
>The Repair Guy wrote:
>> "Guncho" <cgu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >No one out stupids me!
>>
>> I'll second that.
>
>Oh, I don't know, RG. You have your moments.
About time for you to bail again, isn't it?
The Repair Guy
>Mike Hartigan wrote:
>> cgu...@hotmail.com says...
>>
>> > I think this Ether is trying to take my position as
>> > village idiot and quite frankly, I don't like it. Not
>> > one I bit I tells ya.
>> > :)
>>
>> You're in real danger of losing your crown, Chris.
>> Don't let him get away with it!
>
>It's typical of the true moron to think that his extreme
>superior is an "idiot".
It's also typical for the vast majority to think
idiots are idiots. Go figure.
The Repair Guy
>Guncho wrote:
>> For all you know Epiphone is allowed to design
>> whatever guitars they want and don't need Gibson's
>> approval as long as they show a profit.
>> You have no idea.
>
>You're right. You ARE the village idiot.
It's typical of the true moron to think that his extreme
superior is an "idiot".
The Repair Guy
whatp...@gmail.com
VampiressX
I don't ever want to be on your bad side. Mkay?
:)
Guncho
Not for long if you keep this up.
Chris
Ether
That's the opium talking again! (Or is it the hair spray?)
--E
Ether
Guncho wrote:
> Ether wrote:
> > Jim wrote:
> > > Ether wrote:
> > > > Mike Hartigan wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>et...@x-mail.net says...
> > > >>
> > > >>>>Without going into a big long spiel here, Epiphone used to make some fine
> > > >>>>hollowbody guitars that were not Gibson copies.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Those days are long gone.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>[...]
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>But there are no Gibson Broadways, Emperors, Rivieras, Sheratons,
> > > >>>>or Zephyrs. Gibson Memphis' ES-175, ES-335, CS-336, L-5. etc. are not
> > > >>>>Epiphones nor vice versa.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>That's only because Gibson Corp. decides that it should be so.
> > > >>
> > > >>So you're saying that the days are long gone when Epi made some fine
> > > >>guitars that were not Gibson copies, yet they make some fine guitars
> > > >>that are not Gibson copies because Gibson decided that it should be
> > > >>so??? Sorry -- I'm having trouble following you. Which is it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Let me make it simple for you:
> > >
> > > Simply WRONG.
> >
> > No, you're the one who's WRONG. See below.
> >
> > > Epiphone is more than just a name.
> >
> > Horseshit.
> >
> > > It's a division of Gibson, with its own president and employees.
> >
> > Which bears no resemblance to, nor has any connection to, the original
> > Epiphone. As you say: it is merely a "division of Gibson".
> >
> > Thank you for confirming what I said before.
> >
> > >
> > > > There was once a company called "Epiphone". That company no longer
> > > > exists. "Epiphone" survives ONLY as a name controlled by Gibson Corp.
> > >
> > > Same as Cadillac is not a company?
> >
> > Cadillac is a division of GM. Just as Oldsmobile was. Oops! Where the
> > fuck is Oldsmobile now? GONE. Because GM decided to get rid of the
> > line. Just as Gibson controls what happens to Epiphone.
> >
> > Not that Cadillac or Oldsmobile bear (or bore) any resemblance to the
> > original companies.
> >
> > Did you not read the history of Epiphone?
> >
> > https://www.charityfolks.com/sponsors/sponsors_epiphone.asp
> >
> > Cadillac, at least, was never basically defunct, then produced in
> > China, then revived as a budget product line.
> >
> > > Your distinctions are meaningless.
> >
> > So...if I got a factory in China to make watches, then stuck the
> > Cartier name on it, it would be the same as an original Cartier watch?
> > These distinctions mean EVERYTHING. It's like the current Russian
> > TUNG-SOL tubes--they have NOTHING to do with the original TUNG-SOL
> > company. It's just a name stuck on a label.
> >
> > > MANY companies are held by larger corporations. So what? It's not
> > > inherently a good thing or a bad thing. It depends on the management of
> > > the individual company/brand name.
> >
> > In the case of Epiphone (or Oldsmobile), the current product has ceased
> > to have any connection to the company and environment that developed
> > the original product. It has become only a name.
>
> And how is Fender or Gibson any different???
Good question! And incredible that you don't know.
Fender AND Gibson both have unbroken roots to their past. The
management has changed at both companies, but the personnel remained to
a large extent. (So did the product line.) That's what's called
"heritage".
With Epiphone, the company basically died off. Even the line itself was
pretty much defunct in the 1970s. Todays' "Epiphone" has no connection
in personnel or handed-down know-how to the company founded by
Epaminondas Srathopoulo in New York City.
> Also, Epiphone is legally a seperate company from Gibson even though
> they are a owned by Gibson.
(They "are a owned"? Really.)
Exactly--they are owned by Gibson. This relationship started in 1986,
when "Epiphone" was acquired as a NAME. A name with prior market
recognition, which gave it value. Like "Mullard", another line whose
products have NOTHING to do with the famous company of the past.
You think it's a coincidence that "Epiphone" produces Les Paul guitars?
And that these Les Pauls are a cheaper version of the Gibson model? A
subsidiary is a subsidiary, and Gibson controls EVERYTHING that
"Epiphone" does.
> If you don't agree with that, then you
> must be 12 and have no concept of how large business' work.
Chris, you're an idiot, and you have no concept of logic or thought.
But I won't hold it against you. After all, you're twelve. (Or at
least I hope you're not an adult, with such a profound mental deficit.)
--E
Guncho
Todays Fender and Gibson have nothing in common with the original
Fender and Gibson except for the name. The name has changed hands a
few times. Just like Epiphone. What personell still work for Fender
or Gibson that were there the day they opened their doors?
>
> With Epiphone, the company basically died off. Even the line itself was
> pretty much defunct in the 1970s. Todays' "Epiphone" has no connection
> in personnel or handed-down know-how to the company founded by
> Epaminondas Srathopoulo in New York City.
>
> > Also, Epiphone is legally a seperate company from Gibson even though
> > they are a owned by Gibson.
>
> (They "are a owned"? Really.)
>
> Exactly--they are owned by Gibson. This relationship started in 1986,
> when "Epiphone" was acquired as a NAME. A name with prior market
> recognition, which gave it value. Like "Mullard", another line whose
> products have NOTHING to do with the famous company of the past.
>
> You think it's a coincidence that "Epiphone" produces Les Paul guitars?
> And that these Les Pauls are a cheaper version of the Gibson model? A
> subsidiary is a subsidiary, and Gibson controls EVERYTHING that
> "Epiphone" does.
You don't that. You just don't. Yes Gibson owns Epiphone but beyond
that, you are pulling this out of your ass. You don't know exactly how
Epiphone works.
>
> > If you don't agree with that, then you
> > must be 12 and have no concept of how large business' work.
>
> Chris, you're an idiot, and you have no concept of logic or thought.
> But I won't hold it against you. After all, you're twelve. (Or at
> least I hope you're not an adult, with such a profound mental deficit.)
>
> --E
I'm not the one being an idiot here. It's you.
Chris
housemouse
Guncho wrote:
> Todays Fender and Gibson have nothing in common with the original
> Fender and Gibson except for the name. The name has changed hands a
> few times. Just like Epiphone. What personell still work for Fender
> or Gibson that were there the day they opened their doors?
Isn't Abigail Ybarra still at Fender? Maybe she wasn't there day 1 (to
start with it was just Leo, I guess), but she was there in the early
days. There was also a guy named "Jose something" there in the early
years. The other day I saw a neck from a 2006 American strat on Ebay,
and it was stamped "Jose something" - so I guess that guy still works
there too.
Ether
Bullshit. Fender and Gibson both had CONTINUITY. Epiphone did not.
> The name has changed hands a
> few times. Just like Epiphone.
Totally UNLIKE Epiphone. When Fender and Gibson changed ownership, they
didn't lose all of the employees. (In fact, Fender was purchased by its
own employees in 1985.) Fender still has at least one employee who
worked for Leo Fender. And lots more employees who worked with Leo's
original employees. Like I said, that's called "heritage".
Epiphone, in contrast, vanished as an entity. Production either totally
ceased or moved to another continent.
Do try to pick up a book occasionally.
> What personell still work for Fender
> or Gibson that were there the day they opened their doors?
See above. (And look up "continuity" and "heritage" in the dictionary.)
> > With Epiphone, the company basically died off. Even the line itself was
> > pretty much defunct in the 1970s. Todays' "Epiphone" has no connection
> > in personnel or handed-down know-how to the company founded by
> > Epaminondas Srathopoulo in New York City.
> >
> > > Also, Epiphone is legally a seperate company from Gibson even though
> > > they are a owned by Gibson.
> >
> > (They "are a owned"? Really.)
> >
> > Exactly--they are owned by Gibson. This relationship started in 1986,
> > when "Epiphone" was acquired as a NAME. A name with prior market
> > recognition, which gave it value. Like "Mullard", another line whose
> > products have NOTHING to do with the famous company of the past.
> >
> > You think it's a coincidence that "Epiphone" produces Les Paul guitars?
> > And that these Les Pauls are a cheaper version of the Gibson model? A
> > subsidiary is a subsidiary, and Gibson controls EVERYTHING that
> > "Epiphone" does.
>
> You don't that.
Speak English much?
> You just don't. Yes Gibson owns Epiphone but beyond
> that, you are pulling this out of your ass. You don't know exactly how
> Epiphone works.
Sure I do. It's called "research", "knowledge", and "common sense".
Nothing that you would know anything about.
> > > If you don't agree with that, then you
> > > must be 12 and have no concept of how large business' work.
> >
> > Chris, you're an idiot, and you have no concept of logic or thought.
> > But I won't hold it against you. After all, you're twelve. (Or at
> > least I hope you're not an adult, with such a profound mental deficit.)
> >
> > --E
>
> I'm not the one being an idiot here. It's you.
Said the idiot.
--E
Ether
The Repair Guy wrote:
> "Ether" <et...@x-mail.net> wrote:
>
> >The Repair Guy wrote:
> >> "Guncho" <cgu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >No one out stupids me!
> >>
> >> I'll second that.
> >
> >Oh, I don't know, RG. You have your moments.
>
> About time for you to bail again, isn't it?
>
> The Repair Guy
Bail what? Your excess of bong water?
--E
Guncho
Gibson and Fender are not the same companies that they were when they
started out and neither is Epiphone. Whether they are "more original"
than Epiphone is or not, who cares. What difference does it make?
Chris
Ether
To avoid confusion, I'll simplify things for you: RG and Guncho are
both idiots. (In their own ways, of course.)
--E
Sasquatch
>> And how is Fender or Gibson any different???
>
> Good question! And incredible that you don't know.
>
> Fender AND Gibson both have unbroken roots to their past. The
> management has changed at both companies, but the personnel remained to
> a large extent. (So did the product line.) That's what's called
> "heritage".
Gibson guitars were originally made in Kalamazoo, Michigan. In the 1980's,
Gibson decided to move to Nashville, Tennessee. Most of the employees
decided to remain behind in Kalamazoo. There were a few people who came to
Nashville.
The people who stayed behind in Kalamazoo bought the facilities and
equipment and started a company called Heritage Guitars. Heritage guitars
continued manufacturing guitars like Gibson did, primarily by hand. When
Gibson moved to Nashville they began producing guitars that were primarily
manufactured by CNC equipment.
Sasquatch
gatt
"JeffinMS" <tank...@123yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lJ7ag.33288$CH2....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> The new Epis with EE serial numbers are made in the Gibson factory in
>> China.
>
> My Wildkat seriel starts out with I040...wheres it made?
I = Saein (Korea). If it started with S, it would be a Samick. The
other Korean Epis start with R (Peerless) or U (Unsung.)
-c
gatt
>
> ALL Epiphones are made in a factory either owned or paid by Gibson
> Corp.
*yawn*
Some are made in mass production/assembly at Samick plants. Some are made in
custom shops a la Gibson. The rest of the argument is pointless.
Gibson is a parent company of Epiphone; yadayadda, we all know that. Find
another dead horse to beat.
-c
gatt
"The Repair Guy" <repair...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:igai62h74e0a193mq...@4ax.com...
> "gatt" <LiveFromTh...@gfy.com> wrote:
>
>>Gibson quality control aside (the last two new Gibsons guys I worked with
>>bought had to be sent back for
>>warrantee service before their first gig, and that includes a $5,500 wine
>>w/ebony fretboard custom), they're about
>>the same.
>
> Wow. I bought a new wine red LP Custom around 1980 - I think it was $1200.
> They must be a LOT
> better guitars nowadays, eh?
1) You have excellent taste in guitars.
2) His had gold hardware, double binding and an ebony fretboard. The problem
was, one of the pickups was microphonic but in order to keep it under
warrantee, he had to let them fix it. He had to deal with the stress of
shipping the instrument and it took them six months just to replace the
pickup. In the meantime, we had an album to record so he ended up buying a
$600 Epi deluxe with Gibson hardware and recorded with it instead.
3) Then the same sort of thing happened to his $30,000 Alesis soundboard,
but for that much money he made the music store provide him with a loaner
while it was fixed. He'd had two top-end products from the same music
store go south on him while under warrantee in the same year, so at least by
then they'd have given him their firstborn to keep him as a customer.
-c
Ether
Thanks for confirming what I said. Amazingly, some people here don't
quite grasp that concept.
--E
Ether
Fender and Gibson have continuity and a corporate heritage. Epiphone
does not. If you don't understand the difference, then I guess you're
beyond educating.
> Whether they are "more original"
> than Epiphone is or not, who cares. What difference does it make?
>
> Chris
Let's get back to the crux of the argument.
Like I said: It is asinine to "wish Epiphone made more" high-quality
guitars. Gibson Corp. produces these guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
how good or bad they are, and what name is on the headstock. "Epiphone"
is just a name owned by Gibson.
Guncho
No one said Gibson was not the parent company of Epiphone. We all knew
that before you came along.
What we don't agree with is your assertion that Gibson controls every
single thing that Epiphone does and that no one at Epiphone can pick up
a screwdriver without Gibson's permission.
Chris
Guncho
What difference does it make?
>
> > Whether they are "more original"
> > than Epiphone is or not, who cares. What difference does it make?
> >
> > Chris
>
> Let's get back to the crux of the argument.
>
> Like I said: It is asinine to "wish Epiphone made more" high-quality
> guitars. Gibson Corp. produces these guitars, and Gibson Corp. decides
> how good or bad they are, and what name is on the headstock. "Epiphone"
> is just a name owned by Gibson.
>
> You might as well say, "I wish Squier would make more high-quality
> guitars." That would be equally moronic.
>
> --E
You don't know that. You just don't. For all you know Gibson's
involvement is to tell Epiphone, "You have a budget of $40 million
dollars and you have to make a profit" and that's it.
You have no way of knowing what the actual day to day operational
relationship between Gibson and Epiphone is.
Chris
JeffinMS
>
> You might as well say, "I wish Squier would make more high-quality
> guitars." That would be equally moronic.
>
> --E
>
OK "I wish Squier would make more high quality guitars". I AM in the top 11
moron group you know. hehehehehe
housemouse
It's a strange coincidence that you guys are mentioning this. Just the
other day I was at Guitar Center, and I thought to myself - "Self, I
just wish that Squier would make more high quality guitars...".
Guncho
I wish they would make more green guitars.
Chris
Ether
> >> And how is Fender or Gibson any different???
> >
> > Good question! And incredible that you don't know.
> >
> > Fender AND Gibson both have unbroken roots to their past. The
> > management has changed at both companies, but the personnel remained to
> > a large extent. (So did the product line.) That's what's called
> > "heritage".
>
> Gibson guitars were originally made in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
Yes, they were.
> In the 1980's,
> Gibson decided to move to Nashville, Tennessee. Most of the employees
> decided to remain behind in Kalamazoo. There were a few people who came to
> Nashville.
Misleading. Gibson ALREADY had a factory in Nashville at the time the
company was sold. For over a decade, no less.
http://www.heritageguitar.com/company/about_us.htm
In fact, the Gibson Nashville plant was in operation for two years
before the company was purchased by Henry Juszkiewicz and David
Berryman in '86.
So what you should say is, "Many Gibson employeed who worked at the
original Gibson plant in Kalamazoo chose to remain behind to work at
Heritage". That much is true. But the Gibson Nashville plant already
had roots in the old Gibson Corp. There were plenty of old-school
Gibson employees in Nashville.
That's what's called "continuity" and (appropriately) "heritage".
As I have said before: "Epiphone" has no such continuity.
>
> The people who stayed behind in Kalamazoo bought the facilities
SOME of the facilities. Not all. They opened the company "in the oldest
of five buildings formerly owned and operated by Gibson Guitar
Corporation".
> and
> equipment and started a company called Heritage Guitars. Heritage guitars
> continued manufacturing guitars like Gibson did, primarily by hand. When
> Gibson moved to Nashville they began producing guitars that were primarily
> manufactured by CNC equipment.
Heritage is an offspring of Gibson, no doubt. But it was Gibson who
kept producing the guitars that made the company famous. (And the CNC
equipment just ensured that they were more consistent guitars.)
>
> Sasquatch
Do try to be a little more precise, o hairy one.
--E
Ether
Then you're even more naive than I thought.
--E
Jim
> "Ether" <et...@x-mail.net> wrote in message
> news:1147743492....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>ALL Epiphones are made in a factory either owned or paid by Gibson
>>Corp.
>
>
> *yawn*
>
> Some are made in mass production/assembly at Samick plants.
Not for years. And when they were, only SOME were Samick. There were
at least two other S. Korean manufacturers of Epiphone guitars.
Jim
Just WHAT do you base your assumptions on?
Epiphone has their own employees. Gibson has their own. SOMEBODY is at
the head, but he ain't watching over the day to day business of
Epiphone. If it's run like a normal business, each division has their
own management team. Epiphone's president is ultimately responsible.
And if the head doesn't like what's happening...
This is VERY BASIC business workings, guys! Ether acts like Epiphone's
president is some sort of puppet who shares an office with the janitor.
Ether
Intelligence. Research. Knowledge. Common sense. (All foreign to you, I
know.)
> Epiphone has their own employees. Gibson has their own.
And yet, all of them have "Gibson Corp." printed on their paychecks.
Odd.
> SOMEBODY is at the head,
Right. Somebody at GIBSON Corp.
> but he ain't watching over the day to day business of Epiphone.
More than you think. Oversight is crucial in today's business world.
You don't just let a subsidiary run off and do whatever they hell they
want.
> If it's run like a normal business, each division has their
> own management team. Epiphone's president is ultimately responsible.
Right. And he is told what to do, and what guitars to produce, by
Gibson Corp.
> And if the head doesn't like what's happening...
Exactly. If Gibson Corp. doesn't like what's happening, it's curtains.
Because Gibson Corp. controls everything that happens at "Epiphone".
Thanks for making my point for me.
>
> This is VERY BASIC business workings, guys! Ether acts like Epiphone's
> president is some sort of puppet who shares an office with the janitor.
He may as well be, for all the control he has over Epiphone's product
lines.
You think it's an accident that Gibson Les Pauls are a more expensive,
higher-end offering than their Epiphone counterparts?
Basic business, Jim.
--E
Jim
Please state the slightest bit of research that you have done.
Knowledge. Common sense. (All foreign to you, I
> know.)
>
>
>>Epiphone has their own employees. Gibson has their own.
>
>
> And yet, all of them have "Gibson Corp." printed on their paychecks.
> Odd.
Not necessarily.
>
>
>> SOMEBODY is at the head,
>
>
> Right. Somebody at GIBSON Corp.
>
>
>>but he ain't watching over the day to day business of Epiphone.
>
>
> More than you think. Oversight is crucial in today's business world.
> You don't just let a subsidiary run off and do whatever they hell they
> want.
>
>
>>If it's run like a normal business, each division has their
>>own management team. Epiphone's president is ultimately responsible.
>
>
> Right. And he is told what to do, and what guitars to produce, by
> Gibson Corp.
>
>
>>And if the head doesn't like what's happening...
>
>
> Exactly. If Gibson Corp. doesn't like what's happening, it's curtains.
> Because Gibson Corp. controls everything that happens at "Epiphone".
> Thanks for making my point for me.
>
>
>>This is VERY BASIC business workings, guys! Ether acts like Epiphone's
>>president is some sort of puppet who shares an office with the janitor.
>
>
> He may as well be, for all the control he has over Epiphone's product
> lines.
My hypothesis: You know ZERO about this.
I invite you to provide OBJECTIVE FACTS to convince me otherwise. NOT
what you surmise to be facts. NOT your guesses. But a REAL BASIS for
your opinion.
Guncho
You still haven't told us what difference any of this makes? No one
here is claiming that Epiphone are the same company they once were.
Chris
Guncho
What's that saying? Oh yeah, "Put up or shut up".
There's lots of big conglomerates out there where each individual
company acts on their own and makes their own decisions and is still
owned by a larger parent company. This is nothing new.
Chris
Guncho
Yeah I'm done as well, unless Ether would care to actually post some
facts.
We all know that Gibson owns Epiphone.
No one here knows how each company is run.
Chris
Ether
All you need to know:
http://www.gibson.com/press/press_quickfacts.asp
"Founded in 1894 in Kalamazoo, MI, and headquartered in Nashville since
1984, Gibson Guitar Corp.'s family of brands now includes EPIPHONE,
Dobro, Valley Arts, Kramer, Steinberger, Tobias, Slingerland, Maestro,
Baldwin, Hamilton, Chickering and Wurlitzer."
and
"Gibson is privately held. The principal owners are Henry Juszkiewicz,
chairman and CEO, and David Berryman, president. They acquired Gibson
and Epiphone on January 15, 1986, by buying the fretted instrument
division of Norlin Industries, Inc. The new company was incorporated as
Gibson Guitar Corp."
That tells you that Gibson Corp. is the parent company. Epiphone, as
stated, is merely a brand.
Clear?
>
> Knowledge. Common sense. (All foreign to you, I
> > know.)
> >
> >
> >>Epiphone has their own employees. Gibson has their own.
> >
> >
> > And yet, all of them have "Gibson Corp." printed on their paychecks.
> > Odd.
>
> Not necessarily.
Bullshit.
And even in the unlikely event that their paychecks have any trace of
the word "Epiphone" on them, it doesn;t change the fact that Epiphone
is wholly owend by Gibson Corp.
> >
> >> SOMEBODY is at the head,
> >
> >
> > Right. Somebody at GIBSON Corp.
> >
> >
> >>but he ain't watching over the day to day business of Epiphone.
> >
> >
> > More than you think. Oversight is crucial in today's business world.
> > You don't just let a subsidiary run off and do whatever they hell they
> > want.
> >
> >
> >>If it's run like a normal business, each division has their
> >>own management team. Epiphone's president is ultimately responsible.
> >
> >
> > Right. And he is told what to do, and what guitars to produce, by
> > Gibson Corp.
> >
> >
> >>And if the head doesn't like what's happening...
> >
> >
> > Exactly. If Gibson Corp. doesn't like what's happening, it's curtains.
> > Because Gibson Corp. controls everything that happens at "Epiphone".
> > Thanks for making my point for me.
> >
> >
> >>This is VERY BASIC business workings, guys! Ether acts like Epiphone's
> >>president is some sort of puppet who shares an office with the janitor.
> >
> >
> > He may as well be, for all the control he has over Epiphone's product
> > lines.
>
> My hypothesis: You know ZERO about this.
I know plenty. (See above.) You, on the other hand, are PLENTY naive.
>
> I invite you to provide OBJECTIVE FACTS to convince me otherwise. NOT
> what you surmise to be facts. NOT your guesses. But a REAL BASIS for
> your opinion.
See above.
>
> >
> > You think it's an accident that Gibson Les Pauls are a more expensive,
> > higher-end offering than their Epiphone counterparts?
> >
> > Basic business, Jim.
> >
> > --E
> >
Like I said: Basic business, Jim.
--E
Ether
Glue-sniffing is no way to go through life, son.
--E
Jim
Your last statement is NOT a logical conclusion! You seem unable to
grasp this very simple fact. YOU CAN MAKE NO ASSUMPTIONS, based on the
above, with respect to the day to day operations of Epiphone!
You have come up with ZERO to support your assertion that Epiphone is
only a name, and not a distinct operation within the "Gibson family" of
labels.
>
>
>
>>I invite you to provide OBJECTIVE FACTS to convince me otherwise. NOT
>>what you surmise to be facts. NOT your guesses. But a REAL BASIS for
>>your opinion.
>
>
> See above.
WHERE. I see ZIP!
>
>
>>>You think it's an accident that Gibson Les Pauls are a more expensive,
>>>higher-end offering than their Epiphone counterparts?
>>>
>>>Basic business, Jim.
>>>
>>> --E
>>>
>
>
> Like I said: Basic business, Jim.
>
> --E
I'd hate to have you make any business decisions for me or my clients, LOL!
Guncho
http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=83
WOW LOOK Epiphone has their own president?!?!?
I guess that makes them a seperate company all unto their own eh Ether?
With their very own paychecks, logos, letterhead and everything! I
bet they even have their own email addresses! @Epiphone.com.
Moron.
Chris
The Repair Guy
>The Repair Guy wrote:
>> "Ether" <et...@x-mail.net> wrote:
>> >The Repair Guy wrote:
>> >> "Guncho" <cgu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >No one out stupids me!
>> >>
>> >> I'll second that.
>> >
>> >Oh, I don't know, RG. You have your moments.
>>
>> About time for you to bail again, isn't it?
>
>Bail what?
From a thread, after tossing a few insults and
fallacies.
The Repair Guy
repairguy1993 dot netfirms dot com
The Repair Guy
>The Repair Guy wrote:
>> "Guncho" <cgu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> No one out stupids me!
>>
>> I'll second that.
>
>I don't ever want to be on your bad side. Mkay?
>:)
Bah. I don't ever want to be in a position where
my life depends on Guncho's reasoning ability.
Luckily for me, it's a pretty remote possibility.