Legalitites of reproducing vintage pedals
Incubus
My understanding is that, if I find a schematic on the net for a vintage
pedal, I'm allowed to make the pedal, provided that the PCB artwork is
different, and mass produce it and sell it.
I heard some years back that you can use the exact schematic, but that the
PCB must be at a minimum, 20% different to the original.
Any input much appreciated.
Andy van Tol
news:wpiT9.274$Ft5....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
I seriously doubt that last statement about artwork.
You're probably going to re-layout the beast, anyway, sonce you're going to
put it in a modern enclosure, right?
I've never heard of anyone being concerned at all about someone using (even
lifting completely) an old design.
Out of courtesy, you wouldn't want to clone something a boutique builder is
currently producing, that produces hard feelings and no gain. IMO, there's
plenty of "space" out there for a creative twist on old designs.
The names of the pedals are often trademarked, though. Beware that
(www.uspto.gov)
Andy
*****
just one Mosrite copy/parts left:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=avantol
more forgotten classics on the way soon!
Incubus
in electronics magazines here in Australia.
They informed me that I would be able to mass produce equipment which was
made from schematics which they had printed within their pages, provided
that the actual PCB artwok was at a minimum 20% different to the PCB artwork
they had printed within their pages.
If you want to doubt my statement, then doubt them, not me.
"Andy van Tol" <n...@none.org> wrote in message
news:avn1fr$mp4$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
smit...@webtv.net
patents,trademarks,copyrights,etc..Before you do anything.That is how
you do it.You could end up in court real easy.Doesn't take shit to
accuse and hold up funds and all your ivestments.Costs 1000's to defend
and protect..The research you do now will be worth it in the end.But it
will also drive the costs of your product up to where everybody else
is..Good luck,but do it right,hearsay won't be aroud when you have 2000
pre
made boards that you can't do anything with ...
Andy van Tol
> The 20% thing came from inquiries made about PCB artwork which was printed
> in electronics magazines here in Australia.
>
> They informed me that I would be able to mass produce equipment which was
> made from schematics which they had printed within their pages, provided
> that the actual PCB artwok was at a minimum 20% different to the PCB
artwork
> they had printed within their pages.
>
> If you want to doubt my statement, then doubt them, not me.
Still sounds strange. 20% of *what* needs to be different? Square inches?
Traces?
Andy
tpe...@myway.com
your repro as a original or use trademarks or copyrighted material to
sell your copies. A PCB *might* be copyrighted material. Other than
that, I don't think you'd have too much trouble. There are *plenty* of
vintage repros being peddled by boutique builders out there but I
can't think of any trying to hoodwink customers or use trademarks,
copyrights, etc, they are not authorized to use.
Incubus
of a vintage pedal.
To answer the previous question, it's 20% of the layout of the PCB traces
themselves.......that's what's meant by the PCB "artwork"
Don't know if I'd actually consider it a work of art though, but maybe in
terms of legal crap, that's what they call it.
<tpe...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:4269f7f.03011...@posting.google.com...
smit...@webtv.net
products that are proteted.And they are infringing on others copyrights
and trademarks..As a former employee of Diaz,I personally have assisted
in busted 2 individuals on the net in the past year alone.One for
Trademark,the other for patent violations.
As Isaid before,get with some legal help.All the busts I have been
involved in could have been avoided had one phone call been made.All
your top notch pedal builders work together,like soeone said
earlier,there is plenty of room out there.
Kate Ebneter
Of course, two of Cesar's three pedal offerings were just copies of
vintage pedals. The Texas Ranger was a Dallas RangeMaster and the
Texas Square Face was a Fuzz Face. I assume the Tremodillo was an
original design, but I don't really know...
This is not to say that I condone the misuse of trademarks or the
violation of patents.
Kate Ebneter
Collector of Noise Toys
smit...@webtv.net
"based" on a fuzzface design.And with the later added tran/sockets,it
was by far more versatile and reliable,and consistent than any fuzzface
on the market.The Texas Ranger™ was not a "copy" of the
rangemaster..It was "based" on the range master,but improved with the
addition of the hi/mid/low eq,which the rangemaster did not have.My
Ranger had a tran/socket and was sent to me with germ,and
sil,transistors..The Tremodillo™ was in fact an original design by CD
of which he was awarded a patent for.
The difference between "copy" and "Based on"can best be made an
example of by reading about the Marshall amp..An amp "based" on the
fender bassman.Not a copy of.Would you call a Plexi"just a copy".Now
with that said,would you consider the Fulltone trem pedal,a "based on"
or a "copy" of the Tremodillo? Another word used is "Clone" I don't
believe the Diaz pedals were a "clone" of anything.
To say that anything Cesar Diaz built was "just a copy" was pretty lame
in my book..
You should be ashamed..LOL!!!!
Kate Ebneter
> Kate.The Texas Square Face™ was not a "copy" of a fuzzface.It was
> "based" on a fuzzface design.And with the later added tran/sockets,it
> was by far more versatile and reliable,and consistent than any fuzzface
> on the market.The Texas Ranger™ was not a "copy" of the
> rangemaster..It was "based" on the range master,but improved with the
> addition of the hi/mid/low eq,which the rangemaster did not have.My
> Ranger had a tran/socket and was sent to me with germ,and
> sil,transistors..The Tremodillo™ was in fact an original design by CD
> of which he was awarded a patent for.
No offense intended, just pointing out the facts. Sure, he made some
improvements to the designs; others have done so as well over the years.
I must own a dozen Fuzz-Face-alikes of one type or another, all of them
intended to get one specific sound or another. There are lots of pedals
out there that are variations on the Dallas RangeMaster, too -- I mean,
hell, if you've ever looked at the RangeMaster it's pretty simple, it's
not very hard to make improvements.
> The difference between "copy" and "Based on"can best be made an
> example of by reading about the Marshall amp..An amp "based" on the
> fender bassman.Not a copy of.Would you call a Plexi"just a copy".Now
> with that said,would you consider the Fulltone trem pedal,a "based on"
> or a "copy" of the Tremodillo? Another word used is "Clone" I don't
> believe the Diaz pedals were a "clone" of anything.
> To say that anything Cesar Diaz built was "just a copy" was pretty lame
> in my book..
> You should be ashamed..LOL!!!!
Hey, they started as copies. So do most of Mike Fuller's pedals. There's
nothing wrong with copying and tweaking a great design, as you point out
with the Marshall/Bassman thing. Cesar made great stuff, but, with the
possible exception of the tremolo, it wasn't all that original. That's
not a knock on him. It takes talent to know how to get the best out of
those simple circuits.
smit...@webtv.net
pedals.You know the Squareface is a Modified Arbiter fuzzface..That was
always known and up front.The Texas Ranger was a modified
Rangemaster..That was always known and up front.And if he would have
lived a little longer, he would have finished up the
vibe unit based on my vibrachorus.No vibrato or tremolo,just the
chorus..I believe the pedals were very special.I am not alone in
thinking that either.I found out the hard way a few months back..My
texas ranger,squareface,and tremodillo,all made for me by him with some
extra features were stolen off one of my pedalboards.They left a vintage
vox wah,a univibe,a sunface modded fuzzface,octavia,tc chorus,and 2
analog delays..Very popular pedals to be "just copies" ha!!! Or did they
think they were MXR's LOL!!! Maybe fulltone prototypes..
Andy van Tol
news:19089-3E2...@storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Hey, just put "Warmoth" decals on everything, it'll never get stolen. I've
heard all kinds of sniffs and snorts about my Warmoth necks (love 'em), the
decals would be like "clueless repellent".
Good thread here. I agree, there *is* a lot of tweakability in the classic
effects (esp. the germanium ones). Whoops. There I go again...
Andy
Kate Ebneter
As I say, I don't doubt that they're fine pedals. At the end of the day,
it's still a Fuzz Face, though. I have the same thing to say about Way
Huge pedals, which sell for incredibly ridiculous prices because they
are no longer available. They're well-made, excellent pedals, but
they're still tweaked copies of earlier designs. In Cesar's case, I
suspect some of the SRV voodoo rubs off as well.
None of this is intended as a slight to Cesar. He was obviously a
gifted musician and engineer.
smit...@webtv.net
more respect..