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Following up: "dorian" etc.
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RichL
May 25, 2012, 4:55:37 PM5/25/12
to
Coupla loose ends...Two songs on my original list that I claimed were in
"Dorian" mode.
1. "I Heard It Through The Grapevine". Nope, not "Dorian" in the least.
Two of the three major "hit" versions (Marvin Gay's original and Creedence
Clearwater's cover) substitute a i chord for a I chord in a few places
throughout but otherwise the structure of the song is characteristic of many
songs written in a MAJOR key.
Gladys Night and the Pips version (my fav; LOVE those Pips) avoid the whole
issue altogether by not doing the "i for I" substitution anywhere.
2. Santana's "Evil Ways". Plenty of chord sequences that look like ii-V
("Dorian"), but is it really? Let's give a listen to the original
recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tKIPuLfeKg
The chords in question are Gm - C. That sounds "Dorian", right? But wait,
what's that D7 toward the end of each verse? Let's write out the notes: Gm
= G Bb D; C = C E G; D7 = D F# A C.
Now let's put everything that's contained in the chords in order starting
with the G: G A Bb C D E F#. Compare with a "natural" G minor scale (key
of Bb): G A Bb C D Eb F. Compared with the natural minor, the sixth and
seventh degrees of the scale formed by the "Evil Ways" chords are raised a
half step. This defines, technically, the "ascending" melodic minor scale.
So here's gonjah's prototypical "melodic minor" song (see "The majority of
minor pop songs are written in:" thread), right? Well, not quite. Listen
to the vocal, and you'll hear plenty of natural F notes. So does that
indicate "Dorian" (as it would be technically if F rather than F# appeared
in the scale), or is it just a bluesy touch?
In any event, following the Lump's advice, I'd simply notate the song in Gm
(key of Bb) and indicate the natural Es and sharped Fs as accidentals.
"Dorian" mode.
1. "I Heard It Through The Grapevine". Nope, not "Dorian" in the least.
Two of the three major "hit" versions (Marvin Gay's original and Creedence
Clearwater's cover) substitute a i chord for a I chord in a few places
throughout but otherwise the structure of the song is characteristic of many
songs written in a MAJOR key.
Gladys Night and the Pips version (my fav; LOVE those Pips) avoid the whole
issue altogether by not doing the "i for I" substitution anywhere.
2. Santana's "Evil Ways". Plenty of chord sequences that look like ii-V
("Dorian"), but is it really? Let's give a listen to the original
recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tKIPuLfeKg
The chords in question are Gm - C. That sounds "Dorian", right? But wait,
what's that D7 toward the end of each verse? Let's write out the notes: Gm
= G Bb D; C = C E G; D7 = D F# A C.
Now let's put everything that's contained in the chords in order starting
with the G: G A Bb C D E F#. Compare with a "natural" G minor scale (key
of Bb): G A Bb C D Eb F. Compared with the natural minor, the sixth and
seventh degrees of the scale formed by the "Evil Ways" chords are raised a
half step. This defines, technically, the "ascending" melodic minor scale.
So here's gonjah's prototypical "melodic minor" song (see "The majority of
minor pop songs are written in:" thread), right? Well, not quite. Listen
to the vocal, and you'll hear plenty of natural F notes. So does that
indicate "Dorian" (as it would be technically if F rather than F# appeared
in the scale), or is it just a bluesy touch?
In any event, following the Lump's advice, I'd simply notate the song in Gm
(key of Bb) and indicate the natural Es and sharped Fs as accidentals.
RichL
May 25, 2012, 5:01:04 PM5/25/12
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"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PLmdnVBc8qZNbCLS...@supernews.com...
> Two of the three major "hit" versions (Marvin Gay's original and Creedence
> Clearwater's cover) ...
Marvin *Gaye*.
news:PLmdnVBc8qZNbCLS...@supernews.com...
> Two of the three major "hit" versions (Marvin Gay's original and Creedence
Marvin *Gaye*.
kridder
May 25, 2012, 5:23:31 PM5/25/12
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"RichL" <rple...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LdKdnfQ0fdCFbiLS...@supernews.com...
RichL
May 25, 2012, 5:30:16 PM5/25/12
to
"kridder" <n...@this.time> wrote in message
news:4fbff84d$0$10243$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Ah, you kidder, errrrrrr, kridder, errrrrr, never mind.
news:4fbff84d$0$10243$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
May 25, 2012, 5:59:31 PM5/25/12
to
RichL wrote:
> ...I'd simply notate the song
If I were scoring this for musicians that read music,
what would make it EASIEST for them to play. Now that
presents a problem for most casual guitarists because
they don't read. Even those that read, don't typically
read the melody. It would be rare, for example, for anyone
to "need" to read the melody to Evil Ways unless it was
someone like a classical violin player and the symphony
was doing a version. But in any case, it's nearly always
EASIER to read something in Gm (two flats) with accidental
E nats and F sharps. That's much easier to read than
to see it scored in some key where the root note does
not equal the key center.
There isn't a naturally occurring diatonic key that
contains both Bb and F#. So writing it with accidentals
fulfills the concept of "this note is an anomoly".
I'll clarify anything necessary, but it will have to wait
a couple hours. I'm off to murder someone I disagree with.
Lump
> ...I'd simply notate the song
> in Gm (key of Bb) and indicate the natural Es and sharped Fs as
> accidentals.
When in doubt, try and ask yourself...
> accidentals.
If I were scoring this for musicians that read music,
what would make it EASIEST for them to play. Now that
presents a problem for most casual guitarists because
they don't read. Even those that read, don't typically
read the melody. It would be rare, for example, for anyone
to "need" to read the melody to Evil Ways unless it was
someone like a classical violin player and the symphony
was doing a version. But in any case, it's nearly always
EASIER to read something in Gm (two flats) with accidental
E nats and F sharps. That's much easier to read than
to see it scored in some key where the root note does
not equal the key center.
There isn't a naturally occurring diatonic key that
contains both Bb and F#. So writing it with accidentals
fulfills the concept of "this note is an anomoly".
I'll clarify anything necessary, but it will have to wait
a couple hours. I'm off to murder someone I disagree with.
Lump
kridder
May 25, 2012, 7:01:27 PM5/25/12
to
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke wrote:
> I'll clarify anything necessary, but it will have to wait
> a couple hours. I'm off to murder someone I disagree with.
If you're looking to make it particularly gruesome, play "Nuclear Warrior"
> I'll clarify anything necessary, but it will have to wait
> a couple hours. I'm off to murder someone I disagree with.
loudly will you're doing it...
kridder
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
May 25, 2012, 7:12:09 PM5/25/12
to
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke wrote:
>
> > I'll clarify anything necessary, but it will have to wait
> > a couple hours. I'm off to murder someone I disagree with.
kridder:
>
> > I'll clarify anything necessary, but it will have to wait
> > a couple hours. I'm off to murder someone I disagree with.
> If you're looking to make it particularly gruesome, play "Nuclear
> Warrior" loudly will you're doing it...
Great idea. That would surely kill 'em just hearing it. Cops will
> Warrior" loudly will you're doing it...
think it was wereo.
I'll play it in Dorian mode too just to add Rich to the suspect
list. Maybe pin a note on the body that says "take that asshole"
to make Ed a suspect too.
Hope that FBI NSA software isn't on right now, monitoring my post.
Lump
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 8:24:37 PM5/25/12
to
On 5/25/2012 6:12 PM, Craig 'Killer' Lemke wrote:
> <snip> Hope that FBI NSA software isn't on right now, monitoring my post.
I think you can pretty much count on that.
> <snip> Hope that FBI NSA software isn't on right now, monitoring my post.
I think you can pretty much count on that.
RichL
May 25, 2012, 8:54:00 PM5/25/12
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"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
news:jpovcp$lvd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
going on elsewhere:
When I'm learning a song, often I'll write out different parts in SN. I use
Finale Notepad to score the parts; the nice thing about that is you can play
back through MIDI and do a sanity check to assure yourself that you've
scored it correctly.
Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do this. Can
I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own the CD and it's my
own work that led to my creating a score? Or is this a no-no?
news:jpovcp$lvd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> RichL wrote:
>
>> ...I'd simply notate the song
>> in Gm (key of Bb) and indicate the natural Es and sharped Fs as
>> accidentals.
>
> When in doubt, try and ask yourself...
>
> If I were scoring this for musicians that read music,
> what would make it EASIEST for them to play. Now that
> presents a problem for most casual guitarists because
> they don't read. Even those that read, don't typically
> read the melody. It would be rare, for example, for anyone
> to "need" to read the melody to Evil Ways unless it was
> someone like a classical violin player and the symphony
> was doing a version. But in any case, it's nearly always
> EASIER to read something in Gm (two flats) with accidental
> E nats and F sharps. That's much easier to read than
> to see it scored in some key where the root note does
> not equal the key center.
>
> There isn't a naturally occurring diatonic key that
> contains both Bb and F#. So writing it with accidentals
> fulfills the concept of "this note is an anomoly".
Awrite, so here's a question that relates to this thread and to the fuss
>
>> ...I'd simply notate the song
>> in Gm (key of Bb) and indicate the natural Es and sharped Fs as
>> accidentals.
>
> When in doubt, try and ask yourself...
>
> If I were scoring this for musicians that read music,
> what would make it EASIEST for them to play. Now that
> presents a problem for most casual guitarists because
> they don't read. Even those that read, don't typically
> read the melody. It would be rare, for example, for anyone
> to "need" to read the melody to Evil Ways unless it was
> someone like a classical violin player and the symphony
> was doing a version. But in any case, it's nearly always
> EASIER to read something in Gm (two flats) with accidental
> E nats and F sharps. That's much easier to read than
> to see it scored in some key where the root note does
> not equal the key center.
>
> There isn't a naturally occurring diatonic key that
> contains both Bb and F#. So writing it with accidentals
> fulfills the concept of "this note is an anomoly".
going on elsewhere:
When I'm learning a song, often I'll write out different parts in SN. I use
Finale Notepad to score the parts; the nice thing about that is you can play
back through MIDI and do a sanity check to assure yourself that you've
scored it correctly.
Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do this. Can
I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own the CD and it's my
own work that led to my creating a score? Or is this a no-no?
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 9:09:00 PM5/25/12
to
I think it's okay to post portions if it's for instructional purposes.
"Fair use". I've heard it's okay to use 30 seconds of copyrighted
material. But I don't know if this forum counts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Acceptable_use
Rule of thumb: "When in doubt throw it out."
Posting chord sequences, *I don't think*, counts. Almost every chord
sequence is borrowed somewhere.
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
May 25, 2012, 9:53:39 PM5/25/12
to
RichL wrote:
[piece scored in Finale Notepad]
> Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do
> this. Can I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own
> the CD and it's my own work that led to my creating a score? Or is
> this a no-no?
Probably goes like this -
You can NOT post the entire thing. That's because it violates the
basic principle of copyright, "to protect the possibility of the
rights owner to profit from sale". If you posted the entire thing,
that would deny the rights owner from selling THEIR scores.
What you probably COULD do is post a couple of measures. So when
someone says "What's the chord progression at the part where the
lyrics to I'M A NUCLEAR WARRIORRRRRRRRR?" You could post a couple
of measures showing what happens. That is probably "educational use".
In other words, it's not ok to post so people can learn the song.
It IS ok (probably) to post a snippet about a tricky part or to
show examples of something. Like you could post something saying
"This four bars of NUCLEAR WANNABEE use the same one chord as
the first chord in CAT SCRATCH FEVER".
That's the way my IP attorney explains it to me. Safest (he agrees)
is to not post for public consumption even snippets. Once you start
sharing with a bazillion people, it becomes problematic.
Lump-o-matic
[piece scored in Finale Notepad]
> Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do
> this. Can I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own
> the CD and it's my own work that led to my creating a score? Or is
> this a no-no?
You can NOT post the entire thing. That's because it violates the
basic principle of copyright, "to protect the possibility of the
rights owner to profit from sale". If you posted the entire thing,
that would deny the rights owner from selling THEIR scores.
What you probably COULD do is post a couple of measures. So when
someone says "What's the chord progression at the part where the
lyrics to I'M A NUCLEAR WARRIORRRRRRRRR?" You could post a couple
of measures showing what happens. That is probably "educational use".
In other words, it's not ok to post so people can learn the song.
It IS ok (probably) to post a snippet about a tricky part or to
show examples of something. Like you could post something saying
"This four bars of NUCLEAR WANNABEE use the same one chord as
the first chord in CAT SCRATCH FEVER".
That's the way my IP attorney explains it to me. Safest (he agrees)
is to not post for public consumption even snippets. Once you start
sharing with a bazillion people, it becomes problematic.
Lump-o-matic
Pt
May 25, 2012, 9:50:46 PM5/25/12
to
I have to learn new songs continously.
I used to download chord charts but they are almost always wrong plus
the fact that I am a lead player and need to know the notes that are
being played.
Even though I can read I go almost entirely by ear.
Pt
I used to download chord charts but they are almost always wrong plus
the fact that I am a lead player and need to know the notes that are
being played.
Even though I can read I go almost entirely by ear.
Pt
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 10:08:48 PM5/25/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
almost always wrong?
What wrong with this picture?
Go get 'em "Killer."
Pt
May 25, 2012, 10:17:07 PM5/25/12
to
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 10:24:40 PM5/25/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
charts....
So when you became a pro you stopped?
BTW: Do you always have Friday nights off? Big Memorial Day weekend and
all. Where's the gig?
RichL
May 25, 2012, 11:10:08 PM5/25/12
to
"Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
news:jppd3v$i8g$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
concerned because as you said previously there are probably many more people
who post here who don't read SN than who do.
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 11:11:28 PM5/25/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
many question I think I need to scale them back and just listen more for
now. If the subject of "modes" comes up at all I'll be sure to post
something it. For now the fanciest modes I'm going to concern myself
with are Dorian and the Aeolian.
I can't find my "Harmony" by Walter Piston, but I was going to see if he
devoted much time to the subject. I think I may have lost it. :(
RichL
May 25, 2012, 11:12:11 PM5/25/12
to
"gonjah" <gon...@wasted.net> wrote in message
news:8rKdnXWiRriupl3S...@posted.toastnet...
Well the way I read it, Pt says he *used to* use internet charts, then
*realized* they are almost always wrong, then *decided* as a result he'd be
better off learning to use his ear.
A lot of beginning lurkers could probably benefit from his experience.
news:8rKdnXWiRriupl3S...@posted.toastnet...
*realized* they are almost always wrong, then *decided* as a result he'd be
better off learning to use his ear.
A lot of beginning lurkers could probably benefit from his experience.
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 11:26:55 PM5/25/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
I got the *used to* part. I'm always wondering about the
"professionals". I think it's a pretty loose interpretation in PT's
case. That's all.
I mean, It's a big week end. Don't most working musicians have gigs
tonight? I've seen him posting on several weekends. Just seems strange.
I mean Lumpy worked in studios and now he teaches but PT is was talking
about lugging equipment and stuff. If it was Lumpy instead I'd wonder.
In fact I've called Lumpy on a few things I thought were weird. Like,
where's his album credits? He said he's worked with a bunch of very
famous recording stars, but yet, I can't find any credits. Is that
normal? If so why?
When things don't add up, I get curious. That's me. I think it's legal.
You don't have to pose to be of benefit. Obviously, a lot of people
could care less about benefiting anyway.
gonjah
May 25, 2012, 11:37:57 PM5/25/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
FWIW: If the person isn't a poser it's real easy to counter with the truth.
Snark
May 25, 2012, 11:54:54 PM5/25/12
to
On 12-05-25 8:54 PM, RichL wrote:
> "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
> news:jpovcp$lvd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> RichL wrote:
..
> "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
> news:jpovcp$lvd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>> RichL wrote:
..
> Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do this.
> Can I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own the CD and
> it's my own work that led to my creating a score? Or is this a no-no?
Hey Rich. It matters not whether you own the CD or not. You could have
> Can I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own the CD and
> it's my own work that led to my creating a score? Or is this a no-no?
scored something after listening to the XM radio/whatever. You could
even score it from memory from years ago.
What you score _might_ be your own arrangement (if sufficiently unique).
But here is the thing- it is not your work to post. You could of course
negotiate with the appropriate parties a contract that permits you to
publish your arrangement.
Your own creations, are open to anything of course.
Snark.
RichL
May 26, 2012, 12:09:14 AM5/26/12
to
"gonjah" <gon...@wasted.net> wrote in message
news:u5udnZ_n1dR-1F3S...@posted.toastnet...
http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/part1.htm
It uses both guitar and piano to illustrate examples. Some of the stuff is
pretty elementary, but some not so much. I found the bits on "chord maps"
interesting (basically showing transitions between one chord and another,
both within and outside a given scale, and what the most common transitions
are in popular music).
Snark
May 26, 2012, 12:10:48 AM5/26/12
to
On 12-05-25 11:11 PM, gonjah wrote:
>
> -- X-No-Archive: Yes
> On 5/25/2012 3:55 PM, RichL wrote:
>> Coupla loose ends...Two songs on my original list that I claimed were
>> in "Dorian" mode.
..
>
> -- X-No-Archive: Yes
> On 5/25/2012 3:55 PM, RichL wrote:
>> Coupla loose ends...Two songs on my original list that I claimed were
>> in "Dorian" mode.
> I thought about asking my theory instructor about modes but I ask so
> many question I think I need to scale them back and just listen more for
> now. If the subject of "modes" comes up at all I'll be sure to post
> something it. For now the fanciest modes I'm going to concern myself
> with are Dorian and the Aeolian.
>
> I can't find my "Harmony" by Walter Piston, but I was going to see if he
> devoted much time to the subject. I think I may have lost it. :(
I'm no expert but I like Lumps approach to pretty much setting aside
> many question I think I need to scale them back and just listen more for
> now. If the subject of "modes" comes up at all I'll be sure to post
> something it. For now the fanciest modes I'm going to concern myself
> with are Dorian and the Aeolian.
>
> I can't find my "Harmony" by Walter Piston, but I was going to see if he
> devoted much time to the subject. I think I may have lost it. :(
modes. If a piece is written in SN, it makes sense
to score it in the Major/minor key that it is in (based upon the tone
center of course). Obviously, many scores modulate to other keys, so
this too requires key changes where it happens.
Reading SN (for guitar), it is easy to know where all the notes are on
the fretboard for Em/GMaj, assuming it was scored in G (for example).
You know this based upon all the other songs you have learned to play in
that key from SN. Then you just note the accidentals where they land.
This way you can play auto-pilot until you hit an accidental and just
few minor extra cpu cycles are necessary to flatten or sharpen that
"exception" for that key.
I can only imagine a mode being useful when you want to improvise in a
specific mode. Then using the diatonic scale knowing a particular mode
starts on the nth note of that scale, it might be useful for noodling
around for that "kind of feel".
The rest of the time however, I think modes are more work than they are
worth. From what I remember of my Piston book, modes are not discussed
that much. If generally true, that speaks volumes about their practical
value,
Snark.
RichL
May 26, 2012, 12:13:40 AM5/26/12
to
"Snark" <sn...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:jppk6d$hjp$1...@dont-email.me...
Well, I thought it was a bit of a gray area. It's certainly my work
listening and writing down all the notes. And if I don't do a very good job
of listening, I'll come up with a set of notes that's different from the
"official" version :-)
news:jppk6d$hjp$1...@dont-email.me...
listening and writing down all the notes. And if I don't do a very good job
of listening, I'll come up with a set of notes that's different from the
"official" version :-)
Bernie Woodham
May 26, 2012, 1:33:39 AM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 12:10 am, Snark <sn...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I can only imagine a mode being useful when you want to improvise in a
> specific mode. Then using the diatonic scale knowing a particular mode
> starts on the nth note of that scale, it might be useful for noodling
> around for that "kind of feel".
>
I've just started this book for piano because this author has pretty
>
>
> I can only imagine a mode being useful when you want to improvise in a
> specific mode. Then using the diatonic scale knowing a particular mode
> starts on the nth note of that scale, it might be useful for noodling
> around for that "kind of feel".
>
high recommendations in a piano forum I look into:
http://www.amazon.com/Blues-Piano-Leonard-Keyboard-Instruction/dp/0634061690/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338010242&sr=1-1
His first 7 or 8 pages outlines theory as it applies to blues and he
says it's the mixolydian mode that gets focused on. Those first 8
pages really have my head spinning, but as I get into this book maybe
I'll report back.
Pt
May 26, 2012, 9:37:57 AM5/26/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is a stupid question.
Pt
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 11:24:09 AM5/26/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
On 5/26/2012 8:37 AM, Pt wrote:
> <snip>
> Curiosity.
>
> I got the *used to* part. I'm always wondering about the
> "professionals". I think it's a pretty loose interpretation in PT's
> case. That's all.
>
> I mean, It's a big week end. Don't most working musicians have gigs
> tonight? I've seen him posting on several weekends. Just seems strange.
> I mean Lumpy worked in studios and now he teaches but PT is was talking
> about lugging equipment and stuff. If it was Lumpy instead I'd wonder.
> In fact I've called Lumpy on a few things I thought were weird. Like,
> where's his album credits? He said he's worked with a bunch of very
> famous recording stars, but yet, I can't find any credits. Is that
> normal? If so why?
>
> When things don't add up, I get curious. That's me. I think it's legal.
>
> You don't have to pose to be of benefit. Obviously, a lot of people
> could care less about benefiting anyway.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
> That is a stupid question.
>
> Pt
More nosy than stupid.
>
> I got the *used to* part. I'm always wondering about the
> "professionals". I think it's a pretty loose interpretation in PT's
> case. That's all.
>
> I mean, It's a big week end. Don't most working musicians have gigs
> tonight? I've seen him posting on several weekends. Just seems strange.
> I mean Lumpy worked in studios and now he teaches but PT is was talking
> about lugging equipment and stuff. If it was Lumpy instead I'd wonder.
> In fact I've called Lumpy on a few things I thought were weird. Like,
> where's his album credits? He said he's worked with a bunch of very
> famous recording stars, but yet, I can't find any credits. Is that
> normal? If so why?
>
> When things don't add up, I get curious. That's me. I think it's legal.
>
> You don't have to pose to be of benefit. Obviously, a lot of people
> could care less about benefiting anyway.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
> That is a stupid question.
>
> Pt
You said on July 10 2004: "I have beenplaying for 40 years and much of
that was on stage."
So when did you decide internet chord sheets were wrong?Were you "on
stage" at the time?
David Raleigh Arnold
May 26, 2012, 12:48:09 PM5/26/12
to
On Fri, 25 May 2012 16:55:37 -0400, RichL wrote:
> Coupla loose ends...Two songs on my original list that I claimed were in
> "Dorian" mode.
>
> Coupla loose ends...Two songs on my original list that I claimed were in
> "Dorian" mode.
>
be either major or minor. If it has a sharp, you
can call it the dominant major or minor. If it
has one flat, call it the subdominant major or
minor. That's all you need, it's more descriptive
than Greek, and no wrong names.
What makes zero sense is to analyze chords that
way. A tune can be in a mode but the chords
seldom go along. The tonality is what it is.
Chords have no mode for sane people.
Example: "I'm Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover",
if in C, has F#'s in it, and no
f's in the melody, but it has f's in the
chords, and the tonality is C.
There are few 20th century jazz or pop tunes
in C that don't have at least one D7th chord
and one F or Dm in it. That busts your system.
Lasciate ogni speranza.
Regards, daveA
--
Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com
Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
Pt
May 26, 2012, 1:04:54 PM5/26/12
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>
> - Show quoted text -
You are asking me a question about 8 years ago?
> - Show quoted text -
I have played pretty regularly through the years.
I try to play out once or twice a month these days.
I never played with chord charts on stage.
I only 'used' them to find the key and basic progression when learning
a song...at home.
Pt
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 1:19:11 PM5/26/12
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You needed chord charts for "basic progressions" and to find the "key"?
For all those songs you played, professionally, on stage and all? For 40
years?
So where did all these shows take place? Wow. 40 years on stage. And
still needed chord charts from the internet.
Pt
May 26, 2012, 1:42:28 PM5/26/12
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>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't think very many players can learn songs quickly without the
> - Show quoted text -
aid of something.
Everything is not I, IV, V ya know.
You want me to name every place I gigged in over 40 years?
Not going to happen.
I'm getting old and my memory is fading.
How old are you?
Pt
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 1:52:35 PM5/26/12
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-- X-No-Archive: Yes
Oh. So it was for the songs with 4 or more chords. Yeah, those are
tough. When they have more than 4 chords it's real hard to id the key too.
> You want me to name every place I gigged in over 40 years?
> Not going to happen.
Surely you remember the big shows. Or did the bright lights blind you?
> I'm getting old and my memory is fading.
> How old are you?
>
> Pt
Do you remember being a working musician for 40 years?
tough. When they have more than 4 chords it's real hard to id the key too.
> You want me to name every place I gigged in over 40 years?
> Not going to happen.
> I'm getting old and my memory is fading.
> How old are you?
>
> Pt
Pt
May 26, 2012, 2:07:56 PM5/26/12
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>
> - Show quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 2:17:30 PM5/26/12
to
Are you saying you don't remember, or, you didn't say it?
RichL
May 26, 2012, 2:19:45 PM5/26/12
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"gonjah" <gonjah.net> wrote in message
news:v5KdnS4y3bD8hVzS...@posted.toastnet...
What's up with this interrogation bit? You're usually not like this.
One Newsgroup Hero per newsgroup is enough.
news:v5KdnS4y3bD8hVzS...@posted.toastnet...
One Newsgroup Hero per newsgroup is enough.
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 2:28:39 PM5/26/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
I'd let him off the hook but he keeps putting the hook back in his mouth.
Pt
May 26, 2012, 2:36:48 PM5/26/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
You remind me of a 5 year old asking why? why? why?
> - Show quoted text -
I try to answer any questions that might be helpful to beginners.
Pt
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 2:46:44 PM5/26/12
to
-- X-No-Archive: Yes
So just one more.
Do you remember saying?: "I have been playing for 40 years and much of
that was on stage."
I'll never ask you another question. Or, if I do, just remind me of this
thread.
On 5/26/2012 1:36 PM, Pt wrote:
> You remind me of a 5 year old asking why? why? why? I try to answer
> any questions that might be helpful to beginners. Pt
I do ask a lot of questions.
> You remind me of a 5 year old asking why? why? why? I try to answer
> any questions that might be helpful to beginners. Pt
So just one more.
Do you remember saying?: "I have been playing for 40 years and much of
that was on stage."
I'll never ask you another question. Or, if I do, just remind me of this
thread.
RichL
May 26, 2012, 3:14:56 PM5/26/12
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"gonjah" <gon...@wasted.net> wrote in message
news:W5GdnSZnvo9FvVzS...@posted.toastnet...
Lumpy's been harassing this guy for years. Ever since I've been posting to
this newsgroup. I guess I don't see the point of adding more fuel to the
fire. To me, you come across as Lumpy's "mini-me". And like I said, I
think it's out of character for you.
gonjah
May 26, 2012, 3:29:31 PM5/26/12
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-- X-No-Archive: Yes
Alright alright alright. ;)
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
May 26, 2012, 5:10:52 PM5/26/12
to
Rich:
> Alright alright alright. ;)
Rich harasses people when HE feels it's appropriate.
It's the wild west out here.
Lump
> > Lumpy's been harassing this guy for years. Ever since I've been
> > posting to this newsgroup. I guess I don't see the point of adding
> > more fuel to the fire. To me, you come across as Lumpy's "mini-me".
> > And like I said, I think it's out of character for you.
gonj:
> > posting to this newsgroup. I guess I don't see the point of adding
> > more fuel to the fire. To me, you come across as Lumpy's "mini-me".
> > And like I said, I think it's out of character for you.
> Alright alright alright. ;)
Rich harasses people when HE feels it's appropriate.
It's the wild west out here.
Lump
Snark
May 28, 2012, 8:29:11 AM5/28/12
to
On 12-05-26 12:13 AM, RichL wrote:
> "Snark" <sn...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
> news:jppk6d$hjp$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 12-05-25 8:54 PM, RichL wrote:
>>> "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
>>> news:jpovcp$lvd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> RichL wrote:
>> ..
>>> Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do this.
>>> Can I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own the CD and
>>> it's my own work that led to my creating a score? Or is this a no-no?
>>
>> Hey Rich. It matters not whether you own the CD or not. You could have
>> scored something after listening to the XM radio/whatever. You could
>> even score it from memory from years ago.
>>
>> What you score _might_ be your own arrangement (if sufficiently unique).
>>
>> But here is the thing- it is not your work to post. You could of course
>> negotiate with the appropriate parties a contract that permits you to
>> publish your arrangement.
>>
>> Your own creations, are open to anything of course.
>
> Well, I thought it was a bit of a gray area. It's certainly my work
> listening and writing down all the notes.
I don't think you'll get much sympathy there from the record
> "Snark" <sn...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
> news:jppk6d$hjp$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 12-05-25 8:54 PM, RichL wrote:
>>> "Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke" <lu...@LumpyMusic.com> wrote in message
>>> news:jpovcp$lvd$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> RichL wrote:
>> ..
>>> Now suppose for a given song that I own a copy of (say, CD), I do this.
>>> Can I post it online for the benefit of others, since I own the CD and
>>> it's my own work that led to my creating a score? Or is this a no-no?
>>
>> Hey Rich. It matters not whether you own the CD or not. You could have
>> scored something after listening to the XM radio/whatever. You could
>> even score it from memory from years ago.
>>
>> What you score _might_ be your own arrangement (if sufficiently unique).
>>
>> But here is the thing- it is not your work to post. You could of course
>> negotiate with the appropriate parties a contract that permits you to
>> publish your arrangement.
>>
>> Your own creations, are open to anything of course.
>
> Well, I thought it was a bit of a gray area. It's certainly my work
> listening and writing down all the notes.
company lawyers.
> And if I don't do a very good
> job of listening, I'll come up with a set of notes that's different from
> the "official" version :-)
Snark
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
May 28, 2012, 8:57:17 AM5/28/12
to
Rich:
and transcribing Nuclear Warrior.
Turns out it's a rip of of this well known piece.
www.digitalcartography.com/camp/MyTech.jpg
Lump
> > Well, I thought it was a bit of a gray area. It's certainly my work
> > listening and writing down all the notes.
Snark:
> > listening and writing down all the notes.
> I don't think you'll get much sympathy there from the record
> company lawyers.
I tried applying my old and out of practice of listening to,
> company lawyers.
and transcribing Nuclear Warrior.
Turns out it's a rip of of this well known piece.
www.digitalcartography.com/camp/MyTech.jpg
Lump
Snark
Jun 5, 2012, 9:47:58 PM6/5/12
to
Snark.
0 new messages