Dorian Mode YouTube Lesson
Mr. Green
Found this on youtube. I found it really informative. The guy explains
how he uses different intervals, chromatics and arps. What I liked
about it is the way he doesn't try and over explain everything. It's
so easy to get bogged down in too much theory. I've done this myself.
This guy says play triads etc and see what you like the sound of. He
plays assending triads one after the other over a simple backing
track. This sort of underlines the fact that you can just go for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ueG_Jycee4&feature=related
I know this is jazz guitar and not what most would think of as a
beginners lesson. Still it's good to see what's going on and how he
puts quite simple ideas together to great effect.
Green
Derek
In addition to adding the chromatics, I like his emphasising the
triads within the scale for soloing.
Lumpy
> ... I like his emphasising the
> triads within the scale for soloing.
I wish more teachers/demonstrators would emphasize
triads (or better, 4 note chords) instead of focusing
on the linear scale.
Lumpy
In Your Ears for 40 Something Years
www.LumpyMusic.com
Derek
>
> I wish more teachers/demonstrators would emphasize
> triads (or better, 4 note chords) instead of focusing
> on the linear scale.
I am with you. The guy I studied with locally for years has a very
triadic approach, and several chapters of his method are devoted to
such.
I find triads to be MUCH easier to teach improvisation, and to use
myself for soloing than scales.
Besides, many very popular rock/pop players are triad based, like EVH
and Keefy.
Mr. Green
Yep, it was the triad thing that grabbed me. I've read about this in
books which, tried to explain which triads sounded best over certain
chords. I like the way he just played them in sequence and instantly
dispelled any concerns I might of had about using the wrong triad in
the wrong place LOL.
The way he tells you what he's playing, as he plays is just so
helpful. That one vid contained several moments where I just though
ah, so that's how you create that sort of sound.
Green
Lumpy
> ... many very popular rock/pop players
> are triad based, like EVH
> and Keefy.
I always Keefy to be 5th based.
Pint based if he has to save space.
Lumpy
> ...I've read about this in
> books which, tried to explain which
> triads sounded best over certain
My corn just became fused.
Triads over chords?
Triads are chords.
What am I misunderstooking?
Derek
>
> My corn just became fused.
>
> Triads over chords?
> Triads are chords.
>
> What am I misunderstooking?
>
I believe he is talking about scale tone triads, and superimposing
triads over chords to gain extensions.
Lumpy
Lumpy wrote:
> >
> > My corn just became fused.
> >
> > Triads over chords?
> > Triads are chords.
> >
> > What am I misunderstooking?
Derek:
> I believe he is talking about scale tone triads, and superimposing
> triads over chords to gain extensions.
Still got my corn in a fuse.
You mean like playing an F A C triad over
a G B D chord to get a G11?
What's a "scale tone triad"?
As opposed to some other kind of triad?
I'm not arguing, I'm just not sure what
Green or you are referring to here.
Tony Done
> I wish more teachers/demonstrators would emphasize
> triads (or better, 4 note chords) instead of focusing
> on the linear scale.
>
>
> Lumpy
>
> In Your Ears for 40 Something Years
> www.LumpyMusic.com
>
<g> And here's me trying to get into a more scalar approach after half a
century of chord-based playing.
I haven't had chance to look at the vid yet, will comment later.
Tony D
Master Betty
"Mr. Green" <cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b57c00db-c15c-47b2...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Cool stuff....Thanks
Jim
Derek
>Still got my corn in a fuse.
>You mean like playing an F A C triad over
>a G B D chord to get a G11?
Yes, that adds extentions to the original G triad, aka superimposing.
>What's a "scale tone triad"?
>As opposed to some other kind of triad?
>I'm not arguing, I'm just not sure what
>Green or you are referring to here.
Take each tone from the parent scale. In this case, C, and stack 3rds
to create triads. So instead of playing single line scale, you play
the scale in triads.
So using D Dorian as criteria, you have the notes D, F, A, C as the
chord tones, so those accompanying triads provide excellent improv
material.
Dmin, Fmaj, Amin, Cmaj. Of course, that is all C major, aka D Dorian,
but by thinking in triads rather than scales, you approach/play
differently.
Mr. Green
Hi Lumpy,
Yep, pretty well what Derek said.
I read several method books that talk about using the various triad
note combinations over different chords. So for example playing the
single notes of the Dm triad over a G7 chord gives you a G9 feel. I
think this is stuff you've explained before.
Oberg just plays ascending scale tone triads over the backing track.
They probably work because of the ascending pattern but, it does show
that pretty well all the scale tone triads work fine over what is
probably a simple two or three chord backing track.
Over the last year or so, I've really got into using triads as little
block chords but I must admit, I don't tend to use the single note
triad patterns in the way Oberg is demonstrating. I use them more as
small extented chords over the main chords of the tune and, find them
great over dom7 chords for blue stuff.
By the way, You have been a major influence on the way I now
improvise. In the past I was a scale based player but now, I play
stuff which is probably 70% chord tone and interval based. IMHO it's
made me a much better musician. I think I sound better and I feel much
more in control of what I'm playing. A big thank you :-)
Green
Lumpy
> ...the way I now
> improvise. In the past I was a scale based
> player but now, I play stuff which is probably
Exercise:
Find some shape/position that allows you to play
two octaves of Major scale. Try and do it with
all fretted notes, somewhere in the "middle" of
the fingerboard, like around the 5th fret.
Maybe the scale that roots on the 6th string
or maybe the scale that roots on the 5th string.
Just pick a Maj scale that you're familiar with
and comfortable with.
Play and SING the scale. Doesn't matter if your
voice sounds like the Bob. If you run out of range,
try and move the scale lower/higher to accomodate,
or drop your voice an octave when it gets too high.
One way or another, SING the scale degrees as you play them.
Don't sing the numbers, sing a nonsense syllable.
NOW, introduce those triads. Starting with the root note,
play and SING the three notes of the triad. Sing them on
some syllable with a hard consonant in front "BA BA BA" or
"DEE DEE DEE" or "TU TU TU". Play and SING each of the triads
for the seven degrees of the scale. ie, start on the I note
and sing the Maj triad. Then the ii note and sing the minor
triad, then the iii, the IV the V etc.
Groovy so far? Singing as well as playing the naturally occurring
triads from the "legal" notes of your Major scale.
NOW, once comfortable with that, do the same thing, but instead
of arpeggiating the triad on the guitar, STRUM the chord while
you sing the triad. ie Strum the I chord, sing "BA BA BA". Then
strum the ii chord while singing "BA BA BA" etc.
It helps, when you're singing, to sing it UP and then DOWN.
R-3-5-3-R etc.
Don't go fast at all. In fact, challenge yourself to go very
slow. If you go fast, your vocal intonation can suck and you'll
skip right over it. Go slow, and correct your vocal pitch mid-course
if needed.
What you're doing here is familiarizing your ear-brain with
the EXPECTED pitches. "If I put my finger on this fret, the
result will sound like ..."
If you get good at all of that, extend the triad to a
four note chord, again including the natural 7th (Maj or min
as appropriate). And if you get good at that, continue to
extend it to a 9th chord or even further if you like. Most
people can't extend it much farther than a 9th because we'll
quickly run out of vocal range. A 13th chord requires 2 octaves.
So to do that over each note in a scale means we'd have to have
a three octave range, which most don't.
Short version -
Sing scales while playing.
Drop every other note so that you're singing chord arps
while playing.
Sound like George Benson.
oasysco
Hey, Derek. Isn't this the guy on True Blood :)
Derek
>
> Hey, Derek. Isn't this the guy on True Blood :)
Must be tough being a world class jazz guitarist and really, really
good looking.
oasysco
I was thinking the same thing... what he must do to the ladies with
that hair, accent, look, and talent. Geezsch!
Greg
Derek
>
> I was thinking the same thing... what he must do to the ladies with
> that hair, accent, look, and talent. Geezsch!
> Greg
It is a little scary to me. He gets the guys going with his playing,
and the girls going with his looks and passion.
Must have all sorts of offers coming from every direction. :-)
Spikedriver
The first time I noticed bad spelling from you
Spike
Spikedriver
Thomas
"Mr. Green" <cl...@wheatleymetalfabrications.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b57c00db-c15c-47b2...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
There is a guitar teacher on the internet who teaches 3 triad shapes as the
way to go about learning how to improvise on the guitar. I wont mention his
name as that may be looked at as spam and he seems to be doing well anyway.
His 3 shapes are A-D-E basic 3 note triads. Those 3 shapes all have the
5-1-3 notes in the same order. You also need to learn the connecting notes.
That's how he plays and he does not advocate the use of scales. You use
these shapes and you change shapes or positions to accommodate the chord you
are playing over. You also must adjust the shapes for minor, 7th or
whatever extended chord. He strongly believes that you can't go wrong with
chord tones. What I found interesting is how many people were asking him
about modal playing and it was pointed out that if you change the shapes to
accurate each chord the modes are taken care of for you. It's a little over
my head at this point so I can't really explain it much better than that.
Sorry. I know I have wasted a lot of time learning scales and spent a lot
of time practicing scales and got really nothing from them. What's funny is
the these 3 shapes all have the normal full scale patterns built around them
but he encourages mainly the use of chord tones. I learned how to connect
the C A G E D pattern major arpeggios all up the neck a few years ago so
that really helped me with the "connecting" tones that you need to use.
Anyway, I hate scales and like the chord tone "method" better.
Thomas
Lumpy
> ...I know I have wasted a lot of time
> learning scales and spent a lot of
> time practicing scales and got
I suggest that perhaps you didn't really "learn"
scales. You, perhaps, went through the physical
motion of putting your fingers here and there.
I'm not an advocate of playing endless scales.
But if one were intimate with how the diatonic
scale in a key works, he would have every chord,
every melodic and harmonic note there is, plus
any alterations, right under his fingertips.
No practice, if it's truly spent acquiring skills,
is time wasted.
Take those scales you've learned, drop out every
other note, and you've suddenly got triads. Play
more than one triad together and you've got extended
chords (7ths, 9ths etc).
Derek
>There is a guitar teacher on the internet who teaches 3 triad shapes as the
>way to go about learning how to improvise on the guitar. I wont mention his
>name as that may be looked at as spam and he seems to be doing well anyway.
>His 3 shapes are A-D-E basic 3 note triads. Those 3 shapes all have the
>5-1-3 notes in the same order. You also need to learn the connecting notes.
>That's how he plays and he does not advocate the use of scales. You use
>these shapes and you change shapes or positions to accommodate the chord you
>are playing over. You also must adjust the shapes for minor, 7th or
>whatever extended chord. He strongly believes that you can't go wrong with
>chord tones. What I found interesting is how many people were asking him
>about modal playing and it was pointed out that if you change the shapes to
>accurate each chord the modes are taken care of for you. It's a little over
>my head at this point so I can't really explain it much better than that.
>Sorry. I know I have wasted a lot of time learning scales and spent a lot
>of time practicing scales and got really nothing from them. What's funny is
>the these 3 shapes all have the normal full scale patterns built around them
>but he encourages mainly the use of chord tones. I learned how to connect
>the C A G E D pattern major arpeggios all up the neck a few years ago so
>that really helped me with the "connecting" tones that you need to use.
>Anyway, I hate scales and like the chord tone "method" better.
It is not spam if you are pimping someone else you have run across.
You have my curiosity up. Who is it?
Thomas
"Derek" <de...@ycoaoffice.com> wrote in message
news:c1fcfbda-8da3-495a...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
Either search out Plane Talk guitar or check out www.guitarforbeginners.com
Plane talk guitar is where he sells his "method".
Mr. Green
Hi Lumpy,
He's a link to an example of how I now use chord tones, arps and triad
chord voicings. Play track EXPL01:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=598068&content=music
It's just a simple blues in G. First a few chords to set the key and
beat. I started the single note bit with just the three main notes of
the G and then the C chord. Soon I added the 7th and then later I
added the 9th. For the last verse I used triads played on the top
three strings. The shapes I use are taken from the mix mode. If I'm
playing over a G7 chord (or trying to imply a G7) use the B, D, G
notes for my first triad then move up to C, E, A then up to D, F, B.
This means the third triad up from the root has a b5. That's why I'm
relating those triads to the mixolydian. Oh yes I'm playing my triads
with the root on the top.
I read that the blues has a constant I, IV pulse. If my first triad is
the simple G (B, D, G) then I think of the next as an extention of the
C chords (i.e. C, E A could be a type of C6) then the next triad can
be considered a part of the G chord (i.e. D, F, B could be G7). This
alternating pattern of G related and then C related seem to work. I
get more tension when I play a C extension and this is then released
when I go back to a G related extension. The further away from my root
G triad I get the more extended the chord tones get.
When the main chord of the blues changes to C (IV) I the think C mix
and take the simple C triad E, G, C as my root think C extension then
F extension. Of course this is much more simle than it sounds 'cause
all I'm doing is playing simple triad shapes.
Hope I haven't made that too confusing ;-)
Green