Over the last 20 years (or so..)
bassman2
development that bass players should be thankful for? Reduction in
size and weight of amps, with no loss of "punch" is one that springs
to mind...
Brian Running
Oh yeah, definitely! Bass speaker cabs are way, way, way better now
than they ever were. Smaller, lighter, easier to carry, more efficient,
better low-end response, better-looking, you name it, it's better now
than it's ever been. I'll put my Epifani 3x10 up against any cab that
was around 20 years ago, and it's just no contest. No other item has
advanced as much as speaker cabs.
DGDevin
Neo magnets on the drivers?
js
5 and six string basses
headless tuners
usable electric uprights
active electronics that don't buzz, scratch or suck up batteries
pre/post EQ DI switches
Pitch to MIDI technology that can actually track a bass.
The boutique DI/preamp phenomenon
The Ashbory
CNC machines
And most notably:
Affordable, high quality for the money sub $500 basses. Anyone who remembers
what things were like say, pre-1984 knows what I mean
"bassman2" <vince_an...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcfb5736-b358-446e...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
js
computer modeling, etc.
"DGDevin" <dgd...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:DYydnZs0o7VsTXrX...@earthlink.com...
Les Cargill
Thiele-Small more than anything else. They started in the '70s,
didn't really propagate until later.
--
Les Cargill
Derek Tearne
Last 20 years?
That's about the long and short of it. Amplification options have
changed dramatically. Lightweight, high power, clean amps. Clear
speakers capable of handling the heads - lightweight speakers and cabs.
Amps designed for acoustic instruments.
That's where the development has been in the last 20 years.
Most of the good instrument related stuff happened much earlier -
between 1974 and 1985 - js has already listed it all.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
Steve Freides
-snip-
> And most notably:
>
> Affordable, high quality for the money sub $500 basses. Anyone who
> remembers what things were like say, pre-1984 knows what I mean
I think this is true of just about all musical instruments. I started
playing guitar in 1963 and, boy, were low-end instruments just awful -
actions so high you could stick your entire hand between the strings and
the neck at the twelfth fret. The quality of inexpensive instruments
these days is just amazing, and nowhere more so than in guitars and
basses but it's certainly not limited to those. From what I understand,
we owe perhaps a larger debt to Yamaha than to other companies in this
regard.
-S-
Brian Running
> js wrote:
>> Affordable, high quality for the money sub $500 basses. Anyone who
>> remembers what things were like say, pre-1984 knows what I mean
>
> ...From what I understand, we owe perhaps a larger debt to Yamaha than to other companies in this
> regard.
I'd say we owe a lot more to Samick in that regard. They made a lot of
other companies' low-end basses for a long time, and their CNC machining
expertise really put us into the current golden age of cheap basses.
Steve Freides
news:CN_Fm.3334$cW....@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
Could very well be - I know more about other instruments than I do about
basses, and Yamaha is big in quite a few areas, including classical
guitars.
I've got a Samick 5-string on CL now - never got used to more than 4
strings, decided to sell what I never play.
-S-
Brian Running
> Could very well be - I know more about other instruments than I do about
> basses, and Yamaha is big in quite a few areas, including classical
> guitars.
Not to mention band and orchestra instruments, and pianos. And
synthesizers, mixers, effects processors, hi-fi equipment, speakers,
motorcycles, outboard motors, cars, etc., etc.! All good quality, all
reasonably priced. Good company.
MegaSwing
I think the biggest watershed has been the two-rack-space, hi-power
bass amp, which has become largely the standard configuration all
others riff off of.
Edward G.
Baltimore, MD
DGDevin
> I think he means the total package: magnets, speaker material, CAD
> design, computer modeling, etc.
I phrased that poorly, I merely meant to ask if his cab had neo-magnet
drivers. A pal of mine (who isn't getting any younger) switched to a cab
with such drivers and loves the weight reduction. But then he doesn't play
hard rock so he isn't really pounding on them at high volumes constantly,
and I've heard such magnets result in lost volume as they heat up so I'm
curious if anyone has noticed that in use.
Brian Running
> I phrased that poorly, I merely meant to ask if his cab had neo-magnet
> drivers.
No, it doesn't have neodymium magnets, the model is the T-310. Weighs
in the neighborhood of 65 or 70 pounds. When the neo drivers first came
out, there was a lot of talk about their susceptibility to heat, but I
think enough time has passed now that if it were a significant issue,
we'd hear more about it. Most people seem to agree that the neo cabs
have a different tone, though -- but I'll bet that's never been verified
by a double-blind test.
Anyway, I really like that cab!
Jim Carr
What's the alleged deal with the heat? Ambient heat? I didn't think the
magnet itself heated up.
--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
Jim Carr
> What's the alleged deal with the heat? Ambient heat? I didn't think the
> magnet itself heated up.
I mean, I didn't think that it heated up from use.
RichL
> Jim Carr wrote:
>
>> What's the alleged deal with the heat? Ambient heat? I didn't think
>> the magnet itself heated up.
>
> I mean, I didn't think that it heated up from use.
It's possible for a speaker magnet to heat as a result of eddy currents
induced by the movement of the voice coil.
Jim Carr
That I did not know. Thanks. But I won't believe it until I see the Wiki
link! :-)
Les Cargill
Resistive heating is a much larger component here. If a speaker puts
out 100dB @ 1 watt, it's about 1% efficient. 99% loss, most of
which is R heating. 100dB is about 0.01 W .
--
Les Cargill
Brian Running
> What's the alleged deal with the heat? Ambient heat? I didn't think the
> magnet itself heated up.
The magnet does not generate any heat itself, it's heated by the voice
coil. Neo magnets are not as powerful when they're hot.
Brian Running
> The "Rock Block", carbon fiber necks, Monster Cable, the Fat Head, Tube
> Watts, sustain blocks, fret ease, gorilla glue, and black jeans.
Oh, shit! I plumb forgot the Rock Block.
Good eye!
SheaNC
basses now compared to the old days. Cheap basses today rival some
high-quality gear of the past. And, speaker & cabinet technology has made
amazing advances. With amp heads it's a little different story, I think. Not
as easy to find amps that feel like they'll still be here decades from now.
I wish I still had my Sunn Concert Bass head...
Jim Carr
So, you're saying that heat from the coil is transferred to the magnet
and that this causes a reduction in the strength of the magnet? Is there
really that much heat in the coil? I know it can get pretty hot, but
it's really not all that much mass compared to the magnet. A match is
hot, but it ain't gonna do squat to an iron skillet, if you catch my
drift. And the coil doesn't actually touch the magnet, right? There's an
air insulator?
Is this really a problem or is just a rumor based on a germ of truth
about neo magnets and higher temperatures?
ed s
Ok your on - me 30 years ago !
http://www.sectr5.com/old_gear
site still under construction but its there.
So No -> its not Light & No its not easy to carry - but its about as
efficient as you can get ( 13ft folded horn & and multi cell for high
end). And has bottom that will make your pants flap in the wind !
Especially with Moog Tarus foot pedals or triggered Oberheim syth off
the Ricky . And beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! Never ever had
anyone say - that looks whimpish !!
And for a second blow in the same catagory. = good old oldies !!
my Hiwatt 400 ( low end) paired with a Marshall 3/4 stack JMP MKII
(high & mids) run in stereo - will also blow that lil sucker away -
not light, not easy to move, I'll give you that, but the rest
Baaahhhaaaaa nope (no contest !). ed s.
PS -> So to state it properly - for what you have it does a good
job , but it will not blow anthing away in all catagories !!
DGDevin
> Is this really a problem or is just a rumor based on a germ of truth
> about neo magnets and higher temperatures?
If memory serves all magnets lose their magnetism if they get hot enough,
but neodymium magnets tend to do so at a lower temperature than other types.
However I too wonder if this phenomenon occurs in bass cabs equipped with
neo-magnet drivers under reasonable real-world conditions, at least for
someone who isn't in a thrash-metal band trying to blow the back wall out of
a club.
RichL
But that resistive heating doesn't occur in the magnet (at least not
directly).
DGDevin
> The "Rock Block", carbon fiber necks, Monster Cable, the Fat Head,
> Tube Watts, sustain blocks, fret ease, gorilla glue, and black jeans.
Monster Cable? Isn't that more a development in marketing as opposed to a
technical advance?
Zev Weiss
Reminds me of an article I read in the news recently...
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/yamaha_ceo_pleased_with?
utm_source=a-section
Zev
timbo
yeah, that's some serious gear there :) probably blow away my eden 410xst &
walter woods high power amp... although that can get pretty bloody loud.
--
ed s
>
> - Show quoted text -
It wasn't just about loud (although it could be !)- the tone was
fabulous. Not sure if you can see it clearly but it has a custom made
HEIL stereo tube guitar pre-amp (only 25 ever made by hand by Bob Heil
for the James Gang) - the purple thing in the rack under the mixer) It
sounds great - FaT and bitings at the same time with loads of rich
harmonics. Ed
JGN
> On Oct 27, 8:54ï¿œpm, Brian Running <brunn...@tds.net> wrote:
>> bassman2 wrote:
>> > in so far as equipment, accessories, has there been any technological
>> > development that bass players should be thankful for? Reduction in
>> > to mind...
>>
>> Oh yeah, definitely! ï¿œBass speaker cabs are way, way, way better now
>> than they ever were. ï¿œSmaller, lighter, easier to carry, more efficient,
>> better low-end response, better-looking, you name it, it's better now
>> was around 20 years ago, and it's just no contest. ï¿œNo other item has
>> advanced as much as speaker cabs.
>
> Ok your on - me 30 years ago !
> http://www.sectr5.com/old_gear
> site still under construction but its there.
> So No -> its not Light & No its not easy to carry - but its about as
> efficient as you can get ( 13ft folded horn & and multi cell for high
> end). And has bottom that will make your pants flap in the wind !
> Especially with Moog Tarus foot pedals or triggered Oberheim syth off
> the Ricky . And beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! Never ever had
> anyone say - that looks whimpish !!
> And for a second blow in the same catagory. = good old oldies !!
> my Hiwatt 400 ( low end) paired with a Marshall 3/4 stack JMP MKII
> (high & mids) run in stereo - will also blow that lil sucker away -
> not light, not easy to move, I'll give you that, but the rest
> Baaahhhaaaaa nope (no contest !). ed s.
> PS -> So to state it properly - for what you have it does a good
> job , but it will not blow anthing away in all catagories !!
I can't tell from the pictures, which Rush song are you guys playing? ;-D
Steve Freides
"Zev Weiss" <spam_sucks@ask_me_for_real_address.com> wrote in message
news:cF9Gm.27$v47...@newsfe23.iad...
Yup, that's about the size of it. The French Horn and Classical Guitar
I've owned by Yamaha have nothing more in common than the fact that
they've both musical instruments, and Yamaha does a great job with both,
especially at the price points they sell at. I can't think of another
company that makes those two instruments. Oh yeah, pianos, too - twice
in my life I've owned Yamaha upright pianos. Never one of their basses
or electric guitars, though.
-S-
ed s
> ed s <esham...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 27, 8:54 pm, Brian Running <brunn...@tds.net> wrote:
> >> bassman2 wrote:
> >> > in so far as equipment, accessories, has there been any technological
> >> > development that bass players should be thankful for? Reduction in
> >> > to mind...
>
> >> Oh yeah, definitely! Bass speaker cabs are way, way, way better now
> >> than they ever were. Smaller, lighter, easier to carry, more efficient,
> >> better low-end response, better-looking, you name it, it's better now
> >> was around 20 years ago, and it's just no contest. No other item has
> >> advanced as much as speaker cabs.
>
> > Ok your on - me 30 years ago !
> >http://www.sectr5.com/old_gear
> > site still under construction but its there.
> > So No -> its not Light & No its not easy to carry - but its about as
> > efficient as you can get ( 13ft folded horn & and multi cell for high
> > end). And has bottom that will make your pants flap in the wind !
> > Especially with Moog Tarus foot pedals or triggered Oberheim syth off
> > the Ricky . And beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! Never ever had
> > anyone say - that looks whimpish !!
> > And for a second blow in the same catagory. = good old oldies !!
> > my Hiwatt 400 ( low end) paired with a Marshall 3/4 stack JMP MKII
> > (high & mids) run in stereo - will also blow that lil sucker away -
> > not light, not easy to move, I'll give you that, but the rest
> > Baaahhhaaaaa nope (no contest !). ed s.
> > PS -> So to state it properly - for what you have it does a good
> > job , but it will not blow anthing away in all catagories !!
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
It was all originals ! I'll get some up on the site in a few days, it
a new site. Very Very progressive rock from the good old days. Ed S
The BorgMan
news:Oa6dnQ1LVqwXhHTX...@supernews.com:
Correct - but it generally DOES heat the magnet, and some magnetic
materials do have lower field strength at higher temperatures.
All in all I doubt it was a real problem, but it is a theoretic
possibility.
--
Aaron
Tim
> Graphite reinforcement bars
>
> 5 and six string basses
>
> headless tuners
>
> usable electric uprights
>
> active electronics that don't buzz, scratch or suck up batteries
>
> pre/post EQ DI switches
>
> Pitch to MIDI technology that can actually track a bass.
>
> The boutique DI/preamp phenomenon
>
> The Ashbory
>
> CNC machines
>
> And most notably:
>
> Affordable, high quality for the money sub $500 basses. Anyone who remembers
> what things were like say, pre-1984 knows what I mean
>
>
> news:dcfb5736-b358-446e...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > in so far as equipment, accessories, has there been any technological
> > development that bass players should be thankful for? Reduction in
> > size and weight of amps, with no loss of "punch" is one that springs
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with everythig you said. I'm especially impressed with the
power, clarity and weight of the small amps built today. Like Ashdown
and Markbass. I'm not sure, but I think Walter Woods started the
trend, and I've always wanted a WW but his price was way to
prohibitive for me. But the electronic advancements are allowing mfj's
to make quality stuff lighter, less expensive with better reliabliity.
Les Cargill
Well, the previous verbiageis a bit confusing - the
magnet *WILL* be heated by the voice coil, fo sho. There's
nowhere else for the heat to go...
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
99 watts worth of heat is pretty warm.
--
Les Cargill
Jim Carr
> Well, the previous verbiageis a bit confusing - the
> magnet *WILL* be heated by the voice coil, fo sho. There's
> nowhere else for the heat to go...
What about the air? And how much heat are we talking about? What's the
mass of the coil versus the mass of the magnet?
Jim Carr
> 99 watts worth of heat is pretty warm.
I'm sure the magnet gets some heat from the coil. What I'm wondering is
just how much.
Temperature is the average heat in the molecules of a substance. 99
watts in a light bulb filament is hot. 99 watts into a 2kg hunk of metal
is not gonna make it that hot.
I'm also operating under the assumption that the coil doesn't touch
magnet. It's going to get hot under a heavy load. The first place it
will displace the heat is into the air, which is a good insulator
relatively speaking. You can hold your hand a centimeter from a hot iron
skillet far longer than you could if you touched your hand do it. The
magnet is also going to displace some of the heat it gets from the coil.
So, how hot is the magnet really getting and is this enough to affect
the strength?
Derek Tearne
> Reminds me of an article I read in the news recently...
You do know what the onion is, don't you?
> http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/yamaha_ceo_pleased_with?
> utm_source=a-section
The fact is that yamaha, is first and foremost a musical instrument
manufacturing company. Have a close look at their logo sometime.
Altough it is possible young folks today won't recognise what those
spikey things are.
The really cool motorised vehicles came later.
As far as I can tell, they do all of these diverse things really well,
mostly because they've been doing all of them for a very long time.
--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - de...@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
eadg
> in so far as equipment, accessories, has there been any
> technological
> development that bass players should be thankful for?
> Reduction in
> size and weight of amps, with no loss of "punch" is one
> that springs
> to mind...
Markbass deserve a mention. The single 12" Neowhatchmacallit
speaker in my combo has had some abuse over the last two
years and still sounds like new. Drummers have learned the
hard way not to look down their noses at my little box.
Gaffa tape. If you don't have one, fashion an amp cover by
wrapping the amp in brown paper then apply a quick
cauterisation (as we say in the trade) of gaffa.
Low voltage, battery powered, clamp-on LED lights for
illuminating the frots on the fengerbode when in tab mode.
--
SR
Zev Weiss
> Zev Weiss <spam_sucks@ask_me_for_real_address.com> wrote:
>
>> Reminds me of an article I read in the news recently...
>
> You do know what the onion is, don't you?
>
America's Finest News Source, obviously!
>> http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/yamaha_ceo_pleased_with?
>> utm_source=a-section
>
> The fact is that yamaha, is first and foremost a musical instrument
> manufacturing company. Have a close look at their logo sometime.
> Altough it is possible young folks today won't recognise what those
> spikey things are.
>
Kids these days...not sure if that was entirely directed at me, but yes,
I've seen their logo, and yes, I know what a tuning fork is...
Zev
Les Cargill
> Les Cargill wrote:
>
>> Well, the previous verbiageis a bit confusing - the
>> magnet *WILL* be heated by the voice coil, fo sho. There's
>> nowhere else for the heat to go...
>
> What about the air?
Please review the physical configuration of the voice coil
and the magnet. That is where it goes, but there is a
struggle between those eventz.
I seen it, over. Ever baked a driver, over?
Show your work.
> And how much heat are we talking about? What's the
> mass of the coil versus the mass of the magnet?
>
<throws hockey gloves on the ice, goes for Jim's
throat>
So what did your mama do to you?
This is what you look for?
(Spits, as if DeNiro)
You see what we're dealing with here, folks? "Do I
amuse you? You think I am funny?"
DO YOU HAVE A PHECKING POINT?
The Amazing Criswell says.... future hazy.... unclear...
--
Les Cargill
Les Cargill
99 watts. It's not that hard to look the rest up. Cradle a 100W bulb in
your hands for a while. Get back to me.
If it smells like burning, stop.
--
Les Cargill
Jim Carr
> 99 watts. It's not that hard to look the rest up. Cradle a 100W bulb in
> your hands for a while. Get back to me.
Put a 100W bulb underneath a four pound magnet. Put your hand on top of
the magnet. Get back to me.
Hold a lighter under an iron frying pan. Put your hand on the pan. Get
back to me.
The human body releases about as much heat as a 100W light bulb, but you
can keep your hands off of me.
I mean, do we really need one of the physics guys to give us a lecture
on the concept of heat versus temperature?
If you don't know if this was a real problem with these magnets or not,
just say so.
Misifus
Theoretically, heating the magnet can result in the reduction or loss of
its permanent magnetism - "theoretically". Is it happening in use?
That's the only test.
-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com