One more time over - Crankenhaus tunes final mix
DeeAa
Yet another shameless plug with all the same material - but hey now it's a
final mix I think. Also for the amps group now and the bass group.
1st off thanks all for suggestions and help; now the crankenhaus demo is as
good as I believe I can muster.
It just doesn't get any better any more - next time we need to go to studio,
not do it all @ training facility. But thanks.
IMo it turned out quite well enough for semi-live training demo, especially
considering the mics used and all. I really like the guitar sounds a lot as
well. 4 those interested, the other guitar is a Ceriatone 18W head to el
cheapo celestions+EMG85-equipped 'davette' and the other is a scratch-built
strat into a 15W Uraltone w/Eminence Legends. (I've since swapped the
legends to super-cheap Jensens that sound much better, tough). One song
features my guitar completely D/I recorded with a Boss GT-6, though, I guess
you'll guess which one :-)
The bass is Sansamp rack pre D/I and after-the fact treated with GuitarRig2
bass effects, using a couple crunchy presets.
http://www.crankenhaus.com for the tunes.
Cheers,
Dee
DeeAa
Frank Piotrowski
dvaoa
Very impressive. Not surprising, tho ;-)
-d
Dr. Zontar
> Yet another shameless plug with all the same material
That's okay, as long as it's not Nuclear Warrior,
> IMo it turned out quite well enough for semi-live training demo, especially
> considering the mics used and all. I really like the guitar sounds a lot as
> well.
It turned out GREAT, IMO. The vocals and guitars are damn-near
perfect. It's not a crystal clear, over-processed production, but I
wouldn't call it lo-fi either. It rocks.
Did I ever tell you how much I like "Trunk Full of Secrets" and "Stand
My Ground"? All the songs are good, but those two really stand out for
me.
- Rich
DeeAa
Thanks! I also like them well, but for some reason our drummer doesn't
like Stand too much. Well we each have our favourites to play. Maybe
it's too boring or slow on drums or something :-) we always have to be
telling him to play it wayyy slower, but then ahain he always wants to
play like double the speed I've intended any song to use...live
especially, I can hardly keep up with him when he gets excited he
tends to play really hard and fast. Hell to keep up as many riffs are
already very close to as quick as I can muster even at normal speed!
We have to change the other guitarist, BTW...he's having it too hard
to commute to training these days :-( and with both the singer and him
driving like 50 miles for practice sessions, it's been nigh impossible
to get both of 'em there at the same time. I'm a bit worried how can
we find someone who has a suitable style. There be lotsa guitarists
available but I do _not_ want a shredder or a metal guy, I'd rather
the next guy would also happily play my lo-wattage toob amps and not
bring in some scary modern gain machine :-) but I guess one can't
dictate what kind of a sound a player must use, LOL...I usually tend
to dial in sounds for everyone in the band, which some people might
find annoying, but I'm used to it...I'll rather even consider buying a
nice toob amp for a prospective band member to use than listen to some
crap amp I hate roaring next to me in practice.
Cheers,
Dee
Phil S.
I hate to say this, because now I know I'm an old fart. Your music isn't my
taste in music.
Putting that aside, I watched most of one of your videos and I think you've
got a really good band and you are really a very good guitar player. You
can't fake it in a live venue. Keep going for the gold ring in the bull's
nose!
Regards,
Phil
coreybenson
Ok. I'm currently listening to "Trunk" - Here's a quick critique:
Nice vocals. Love the backup vocal... The guitar tone is fugly. The
drums are anemic (might be MP3 processing, I dunno). Specifically, the
kick sounds like plastic. the bass is sorta there, but it sounds like
it was mixed by a guitarist who's REALLY proud of his tone, and sadly,
it isn't that great. If this is the final mix... hmm. I like the tune
overall. Just a smidge dark, but still accessible. Ok, that's
enough...
Undecided: Where the hell did you record these drums? Yikes. The snare
is really bad. Again, I like the vocals. Again, the guitars... oh boy.
The top end hurts and sounds like crap overall, but again, I'm pretty
sure that's the MP3 encoding. I'd REALLY like to hear just a bit of
the song un-MP3'd. Any chance you could post a 20 second WAV?
Nothing to Pray: I like the lo-fi guitar that follows the bass. Cool.
Again, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors with the MP3
encoding and full songs. What bitrate were these encoded at? During
the verse there's a really bad something going on in the rhythm
guitar... sounds like when I've run an overdriven guitar into an
Alesis Tube MP, and then overdriven that. Seems cool for a moment, but
later... not so much.
I'm sure this is coming off harsh, but it's a good enough band that I
think you should hear the truth. To put my money where my mouf is,
please feel free to take a listen to the tunes on my studio's site:
http://www.currbsideproductions.com/
I'm seriously wondering if it's the MP3 encoding that's sucking all
the goodness out, but I can tell the guitars are just NOT going to
change.
Sorry... Good luck on the release! I'd love to hear a CD or higher
quality rip!
Corey
DeeAa
> Nice vocals. Love the backup vocal... The guitar tone is fugly. The
> drums are anemic (might be MP3 processing, I dunno). Specifically, the
> kick sounds like plastic. the bass is sorta there, but it sounds like
> it was mixed by a guitarist who's REALLY proud of his tone, and sadly,
> it isn't that great. If this is the final mix... hmm. I like the tune
> overall. Just a smidge dark, but still accessible. Ok, that's
> enough...
>
guitar tone too. If you check my pages at http://deeaa.pp.fi - I have
dozens of songs there - do you like those guitar tones better? I guess
it's a matter of taste, but I feel I have never managed to get a
better guitar sound on record, even if these are a tad raw and due to
high-end processing they could be improved some still. Those old No
Class tunes are the only ones that are pretty close. Refrain has some
nice tones, but it ain't me playing on those. But you know, I really
dislike sounds most seem to like, such as Zeppelin, Santana, Gary
Moore etc. so I guess it's just my preference. I like raw ACDC and
such the best. Of modern bands, Billy Talent I'm just listening to has
some excellent guitar and bass sounds btw.
The drums do sound horrible, I agree...the kick was recorded with a
vocal one - a Shure 58 copy and the snare with I don't know what mic
it was, the overhead was an old plastic Philips stereo mic off a mini
cassette recorder and they were recorded live with bass and guitar in
a concrete box that reverberates like hell :-) you shoulda heard the
raw mix. There is no possibility for any monitoring either...we just
kinda put on the mikes near the drums and made sure they didn't clip
and then routed them to an 8-track via a Behringer mic preamp.
The other guitar has some weird noises to it, and it turned out when
we recorded one of the speakers was loose in the cabinet, but it was
too late to do the recording over again, LOL. I know, we shouda, but
this was in May and we haven't gotten in a single practice after that
so that everyone would be present . just one gig...so no option to re-
record really.
> The top end hurts and sounds like crap overall, but again, I'm pretty
> sure that's the MP3 encoding. I'd REALLY like to hear just a bit of
> the song un-MP3'd. Any chance you could post a 20 second WAV?
>
I could, but I do believe it's not the mp3. It is just such a low
class recording. The whole shebang is so lacking in highs, it's
processed heavily with some enhancer-type FX to get at least some
clarity, so it sounds pretty artificial there. We actually thought of
running it thru an analog C-cassette and re-recording it to MP3 to get
most of the digital crap out of the sound, but then again, it won't be
hi-fi by any standards, it's just a rehearsal demo.
> encoding and full songs. What bitrate were these encoded at? During
> the verse there's a really bad something going on in the rhythm
> guitar... sounds like when I've run an overdriven guitar into an
> Alesis Tube MP, and then overdriven that. Seems cool for a moment, but
> later... not so much.
>
128...but again, I do believe it's the gear used that's mostly to
blame. For instance, the Behringer preamp everything (except vocals)
goes thru is an utter piece of crap. Whatever goes thru it, if you
compress it and boost the level, you hear this godawful noise in the
background all the time - it's simply really bad audio gear. But it's
all we have fo ra preamp :-( for the vox I have a DBX 386 or what was
it, and the quality of vox is thus like from another planet
completely.
> I'm sure this is coming off harsh, but it's a good enough band that I
> think you should hear the truth. To put my money where my mouf is,
> please feel free to take a listen to the tunes on my studio's site:
>
> http://www.currbsideproductions.com/
>
Looks great...one day, we'll be able to get into a real studio too.
Well we did previously record 4 of these songs in a nice studio too,
and it was like 600% better overall, but I didn't like the guitar
sounds.
> I'm seriously wondering if it's the MP3 encoding that's sucking all
> the goodness out, but I can tell the guitars are just NOT going to
> change.
>
I hope so :-) as I really love the sounds we got for axes, and so does
the other axeman (except for 'Predator' I'm not happy) but that tha's
just my preference. IMO they sound pretty close to what they are live
- all 100% tube amps with no FX at all, no distortion or saturation or
tricks, just pure crunch I love. But that's my preference.
Thanks for the comments! Always appreciated!
Cheers,
Dee
Squier
as always great stuff. thanks for sharing.
I really liked Come December, it really has a different
vibe and nice lead riffs - great sounds - cool lyrics.
anyways. that song has it all - the guitar work goes from
chime to semi-grind and anyways, it's my favorite although
they are all great songs.
ps. I liked the lead sounds on that because you
didn't get carried away with the wah - tasteful wah
stuff is excellent.
thanks for sharing.
coreybenson
> On 20 elo, 04:32, coreybenson <coreyben...@gmail.com> wrote:> Nice vocals. Love the backup vocal... The guitar tone is fugly. The
> > drums are anemic (might be MP3 processing, I dunno). Specifically, the
> > kick sounds like plastic. the bass is sorta there, but it sounds like
> > it was mixed by a guitarist who's REALLY proud of his tone, and sadly,
> > it isn't that great. If this is the final mix... hmm. I like the tune
> > overall. Just a smidge dark, but still accessible. Ok, that's
> > enough...
>
> LOL you're dead on about the guitarist mixing...Ï myself love the
Dee, you are one class act. I came down on you pretty hard, and you
took it from the perspective I was hoping would come across. Now that
you've explained the recording situation, I'd say you did the best you
could with the tools you had. If you're happy with the guitar tones,
congrats! Getting what you hear in your head onto "tape" - even the
virtual kind! - is half (or more) of the battle.
I'd suggest mixing the guitars a titch lower, but that's just me.
They're overpowering the rest of the mix a bit... but you're the one
who needs to be happy, and if you are, congrats!
Good luck with the release!
Corey
DeeAa
> On Aug 19, 11:30 pm, DeeAa <de...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 20 elo, 04:32, coreybenson <coreyben...@gmail.com> wrote:> Nice vocals. Love the backup vocal... The guitar tone is fugly. The
> > > drums are anemic (might be MP3 processing, I dunno). Specifically, the
> > > kick sounds like plastic. the bass is sorta there, but it sounds like
> > > it was mixed by a guitarist who's REALLY proud of his tone, and sadly,
> > > it isn't that great. If this is the final mix... hmm. I like the tune
> > > overall. Just a smidge dark, but still accessible. Ok, that's
> > > enough...
>
> > LOL you're dead on about the guitarist mixing...Ï myself love the
>
> - Näytä siteerattu teksti -
Thanks! Good critique is always most welcome, unless it's downright
pejorative or extremely biased of course :-) Yes the guitars might be
mixed a tad high now that I listen with fresher ears...also on some
systems I've now heard weird bass booming which annoys me and takes
away bag end impact...but the truth is, I don't think I have any
energy left to remix the stuff :-) I dunno how and if we're gonna
release the material either...probably just make some CD-R's and send
'em to record companies while well knowing it'll get us nowhere, and
more importantly, send to prospective gig venues. Hell, at this point
the main use of the recording is we can remember the songs, so few and
far between are the times we actually get together to play 'em,
LOL...have a few new ones coming up, I suppose at least one will
survive the trials and become a new song, Come winter I'm planning to
have a few dozen more song ideas to try with the band, so hopefully by
next summer we might have another 4-5 songs at least that are worth
working on...maybe :-)
Cheers,
Dee
Rich Koerner
Self produced demos and other recordings by musicians with digital home/project studios is a
wonderful thing. Thank God for the advances in technology. It makes possible what was not
available in the beginnings.
Through the years I've listened to a lot of musician produced recordings, and have found the the end
results can vary from professionally produced CD recorded in musical heaven,... to the musical noise
found in of a work tape.
The reason for this variation is mostly due to the amount of knowledge and experience of the pilot
and crew flying the project airplane.
You don't just get on board the airplane, and figure things out once to get in the air. You have to
have a very *detailed* flight plan before you even leave home to go to the airport. LOL, but then,
there are those who live on the thrill of flying on a wing and a prayer approach. Which leads to a
lot of crash and burns... more often than not.
Anyway, back to the concepts behind recorded music.
The most important basic is to capture the real world sounds of a band playing on tape/HD. Yes, the
way you hear it, is how it should end up in playback through the monitors.
Record the band in a BIG room, with the mics places in the right places, with a proper sonic field
adjusted mix, it will sound as BIG... naked through the monitors.
ISO booths kill your ability for such.
To have the band sound REAL, you have to have REAL sounding instruments being played in front of the
mics in the first place. So, make sure you bring REAL sounding drums to the mics. Not, a
collection of pie tins and wet newspaper. The tone of the sounds you record... are all you are
going to have to work with. So, bring it with you.
The more after thought FIXES for later you allow, adds more holes to the sinking ship you have to
bale out later.
Once you have captured the bare bones BIG and the REAL, now the technology toys are the window
dressing.
If it's even needed or wanted.
There are a lot great books on the art in recorded music.
Here is an example of REAL produced by a band with a small project studio.
http://www.timeelect.com/tunes/acacia-tree.mp3
Clear large sonic field.
http://www.timeelect.com/music/beware.mp3
Another kind of sonic field.
http://www.timeelect.com/music/on-my-way.mp3
Hope this helps in some way.
Regards,
Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
www.timeelect.com
Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
DeeAa
> To have the band sound REAL, you have to have REAL sounding instruments being played in front of the
> mics in the first place. So, make sure you bring REAL sounding drums to the mics. Not, a
> collection of pie tins and wet newspaper. The tone of the sounds you record... are all you are
> going to have to work with. So, bring it with you.
>
Great post, Rich.
Very often it's different in the real world...like we're crippled by
the fact we only can record in a cavernous concrete walled basement to
start off.
The drummer doesn't have his own drums, so he's left with what he can
borrow and no knowing what the tuning on them is etc. He's pondering
about borrowing enough money to buy his own set, but even then it will
be a low-quality, cheap set he can afford. He's striving to get rent
money each month after all.
The bassist doesn't own a bass, actually not even a cord, just a few
picks. But he's promised he'll buy a bass whenever he gets a few
hundred extra.
The guitarist plays whatever is available at the facility, luckily I
could buy him a nice amp. I've also bought all the mics and other
gear...but even I can't keep on paying for everything, I'm not rich
either. But I might have to pay for a studio visit (again) some time -
no hope for the rest of the band chipping in however.
And to top it all off, we nearly never get all the people in the place
at the same time.
But it's the real world for hobbyist musicians with families, work and
mortgages...music comes after everything else is fixed and if we can
spare the time from chopping firewood for the winter, actually quite
literally speaking too :-)
So getting fine-sounding drums is pretty far down the list for us
still... ;-)
Cheers,
Dee
JP
Buy a chain saw...and a spliting wedges...and gang on it at each
other's house 1 day a week to make short and continous work of it. You
can cut and split a couple cords a day with the right amount of help
and switching out workers before you get tired (and dangerous) with
the tools...chain saw cuts are not nice...trip to the emergency
room..don't ask me how I know! In fact, you could likely make the $$
for instruments and pay for the tools with working wood for your
neighbors a day ot two a week. Wood in Texas goes for good $$.
And no, Muley, I didn't cut anything important off...
Blunt A. Blaze
>
>
> Bought a chain saw...I am gonna lay my face on it and rip start her.
:-)! mvm
DeeAa
news:2gdta4tlllh9gd8g6...@4ax.com...
> Buy a chain saw...and a spliting wedges...and gang on it at each
> other's house 1 day a week to make short and continous work of it. You
> can cut and split a couple cords a day with the right amount of help
> and switching out workers before you get tired (and dangerous) with
> the tools...chain saw cuts are not nice...trip to the emergency
> room..don't ask me how I know! In fact, you could likely make the $$
> for instruments and pay for the tools with working wood for your
> neighbors a day ot two a week. Wood in Texas goes for good $$.
> And no, Muley, I didn't cut anything important off...
LOL yeah, well it ain't like we couldn't afford it if it were high on our
list - hell I just blew $2000 on an ultra-thin laptop just because I wanted
a lighter machine to carry around at work, and the company would only give
me a cheaper, heavier model so I bought one myself instead - it's just that
music is just a hobby, not something to spend all my money in....and also,
even if _I_ wanted to spend more money, there must be limits to what one
person pays for what stuff. In the past I have been the one to buy the PA
system and the 'tour bus' van etc, and I just don't want to do it any more.
I mean, the bassist has a PhD and a good job and a house and all, it ain't
like he couldn't buy a bass, but after all - does he _really_ need an own
bass so bad, if he only plays like once a month for a few hours? The drummer
is the one who's really not that wealthy 'for real' - he's a barkeep and
lives in the center of the town where the rents are high, and being a
bachelor all his money goes to drinking and partying hard - but again, does
he need his own drums as long as there are some drums he can borrow at our
training facility? I can understand them quite well when they say they can't
afford it and they're short on cash etc.
If it were me, I'd buy - and have bought - pretty much the best gear
possible, no matter if I only play the gear once a month, but thats just me.
Many people just play music for fun, and don't really want to invest any
money in it unless absolutely necessary. It IS hard sometimes to justify to
myself why do I have three handmade custom guitars and three expensive more
or less 'boutique' amps and cabs and a whole lot of other stuff when I could
get by with just one of my axes and a compact Tech-21 combo - hell buy that
HD quality home theatre system I've been dreaming instead. Now that I think
about it, I again get the feeling maybe I should indeed sell some stuff and
buy something I'd actually use more than once in a blue moon :-)
BTW the wood thing wouldn't work here...plenty of wood around. You can get a
year's supply of firewood ready-made from the city lot for like $300
delivered and chopped. I also have 3-4 hectares of my own forest, just been
working there with my clearing saw and a chainsaw just to prune it up a bit
and make firewood for the summerhouse...plenty of wood hereabouts.
Cheers,
Dee
Stephen Cowell
"DeeAa" <deeaaREM...@dnainternet.net> wrote
...
> In the past I have been the one to buy the PA system and the 'tour bus'
> van etc, and I just don't want to do it any more.
>
> I mean, the bassist has a PhD and a good job and a house and all, it ain't
> like he couldn't buy a bass, but after all - does he _really_ need an own
> bass so bad, if he only plays like once a month for a few hours? The
> drummer is the one who's really not that wealthy 'for real' - he's a
> barkeep and lives in the center of the town where the rents are high, and
> being a bachelor all his money goes to drinking and partying hard - but
> again, does he need his own drums as long as there are some drums he can
> borrow at our training facility?
Being the only one in the band with *the job* has its downside...
as well as its upside (I'm the only guitar player I know that can
choose cymbals and repair Hammond organs too). Having the
drummer not own the drums is one way to keep them from
being traded for an RC monster truck or pellet rifle, as has happened
often enough (like more than once).
Or, you can say, it shows our _________________(FITB).
__
Steve
.
dedication, co-dependence, gullibility etc
DeeAa
news:trTrk.18682$cW3....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> Being the only one in the band with *the job* has its downside...
> as well as its upside (I'm the only guitar player I know that can
> choose cymbals and repair Hammond organs too). Having the
> drummer not own the drums is one way to keep them from
> being traded for an RC monster truck or pellet rifle, as has happened
> often enough (like more than once).
>
kits or parts thereof? I don't know many.
I know this great drummer from a band that have done like 10 albums and a
DVD or two, and gig constantly and in many countries too, festivals etc, and
he's _always_ flat broke, and his band actually had to for instance arrange
for his dental payments by playing a few extra gigs with all income given to
his dentist directly :-)
I suppose it's largely due to drummers not getting basically any royalties,
as its like 95% of all of that go to the people who wrote the lyrics and did
the composing, and I have seldom met a composing drummer....so once they
don't gig, there isn't any real income from airplay of their songs etc.
Which is good for me, being a writer AND a composer of all our songs
basically---so I'm also the only one to get any ASCAP income if/when/as our
stuff plays on the radio. Which somewhat relieves my annoyance from having
to pay for it all sometimes.
Cheers,
Dee
Benj
> To have the band sound REAL, you have to have REAL sounding instruments being played in front of the
> mics in the first place. So, make sure you bring REAL sounding drums to the mics. Not, a
> collection of pie tins and wet newspaper. The tone of the sounds you record... are all you are
> going to have to work with. So, bring it with you.
Personally I don't get this "musicians without instruments" thing. OK,
yes, I sometimes do play the "house" drumset. I HATE it. Everything
sounds like sh!t and is in the wrong place even if the owner actually
has a decent kit. Imagine if you will going to a gig to play bass and
sometime they hand you a right handed bass and sometimes a left handed
one? Oh well, luck of the draw! As decent as an SX bass and other low
end basses are how can any so-called musician justify not owning an
instrument? How can you get enough familiarity with an instrument to
get a REAL sound out of it if you haven't lived with it? The whole
concept of "borrowed" instruments (and I mean here you don't own one
yourself, not that you are using backline stuff on a distant gig) is
crazy. It just screams "I'm not serious about music". It is a person
who usually has nothing to offer.
But, yeah, I also have some experience with musicians. And yeah, some
do spend all their cash on drugs. And yeah some of those can take any
"house" POS and simply bring you to tears with it. So the blanket rule
of musicians without instruments being worthless doesn't always work,
but even the ones that do have the talent are usually such a pain in
the ass to work with they aren't worth it either. And anyway, just
think how cool they'd be if they actually took time to pick out an
instrument, even a cheapo one, and learn to bring out the best in it.
I can dream, can't I?
Rich Koerner
When it's the time to get down... it's about WHAT a person BRINGS to the table.
JP
Hell, Dee, we're moving in with you! lol
Stephen Cowell
"Benj" <bja...@iwaynet.net> wrote
...
> Imagine if you will going to a gig to play bass and
> sometime they hand you a right handed bass and sometimes a left handed
> one? Oh well, luck of the draw!
Try gigging open mics with a left-handed drummer...
*major* PITA.
__
Steve
.