Sousa on PBS
Lord Valve
John Philip Sousa is an important part of the American
saga. He's part of our musical heritage. To deny this,
to disparage his memory and his works, says more about
certain losers who post here than I ever could.
Here is a transcript of a program which ran on that
bastion of rightwing propaganda, PBS, dealing with
Sousa and his impact on all things American. The
participants (other than the moderator) are the
director of the music division at the Library of
Congress, a professor of music at Rider University,
and a musicologist at the Library of Congress.
If, after reading this, the light of cognition
flares, however dimly, however briefly, in the
recesses of your otherwise musically narrow minds,
it will be enough.
Or, perhaps not. One can hope.
Lord Valve
Musician
______________________________________________________
PBS program "Think Tank," hosted by Ben Wattenberg.
Transcript for: Who Was John Philip Sousa?
ANNOUNCER: Funding for Think Tank is provided by the
John M. Olin Foundation, the Lynde and Harry Bradley
Foundation, the Smith Richardson Foundation, and the
Donner Canadian Foundation.
(Musical break.)
MR. WATTENBERG: Hello, I’m Ben Wattenberg. You are
listening to the most famous, and perhaps most frequently
played piece of American music ever written, John Phillip
Sousa’s The Stars and Stripes Forever. This week Think Tank
takes a look at Sousa the man, the composer, and the promoter.
Just who was The March King, and how is it that almost 150
years after his birth his music is still such a central part
of the American experience. The topic before the house, John
Phillip Sousa, the first American musical superstar, this
week on Think Tank.
To most people the name John Phillip Sousa is synonymous
with patriotism. For over 100 years orchestras and bands
around the world have been playing his songs nonstop. He
was the most famous band leader the world has ever known,
and American’s first superstar. John Phillip Sousa was born
on November 6th, 1854 in Washington, D.C., just a block and
a half away from the Marine barracks. His parents, Elizabeth
and Antonio were immigrants. His Portuguese father played
trombone with the Marine band, and encourage young John to
join him as an apprentice musician at the age of 13.
In 1880, at the age of 26, Sousa began a career as the
leader of the Marine band. In his 12 years at the helm
Sousa transformed this Marine outfit into the country’s
premier military band, known as The President’s Own. Their
concerts attracted large and appreciative audiences. The
band’s reputation spread. In 1889 Sousa wrote what would
become the most popular song in America and in Europe,
the Washington Post March.
(Musical break.)
MR. WATTENBERG: In 1892 Sousa left the Marines and formed
his own civilian band. He saw it as his chance to introduce
a wide spectrum of quality music to millions of people. He
was tireless in his pursuit of that goal. For almost 40 years
his travel and performance schedules were relentless. His
enormous success has been credited to a number of factors.
His unabashed patriotism emerged triumphantly in his marches.
America was ready, indeed hungry for it. The Stars and Stripes
Forever came out just before the Spanish-American War. Patriotic
fever was soaring. The massive numbers of immigrants coming into
the country at the time created a deeper need for national
identity. Sousa spoke to that need, expressing musically what
was the essence of America.
Sousa’s skill as a self-promoter was also legendary. Even
Barnum-like. When the band traveled to small towns schools
and businesses would shut down. The day would be declared
Sousa Day, in his honor. He played to the public taste,
believing that composers and band leaders should trust the
preferences of the people. He has been described as the
consummate opportunist, and a master at walking the line
between the elitist and populist orientation. His most popular
song, The Stars and Stripes Forever became the last piece
John Phillip Sousa ever conducted. He played it in March of
1932, on the day he died. Few if any bands before or since
can claim a level of popularity comparable to that which the
Sousa band commanded. No composer is more thoroughly woven
through the American experience.
Memorial Day concerts, home coming parades, football games,
and Fourth of July celebrations continue to march along to
the music of the March King, John Phillip Sousa.
Joining us for a discussion on the man and his music are:
John Newsom, director of music division at the Library of
Congress, and editor of Perspectives on John Phillip Sousa;
Jerry Rife, professor of music at Rider University in New
Jersey, and music director of the Rareton Valley Symphonic
Band; and Loras Schissel, composer, conductor of the Virginia
Grand Military Band, and musicologist at the Library of Congress.
Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. I have had the pleasure
of hearing Loras’ band play, and it is dynamite. Let’s go
around the room first, John, let’s begin with you, and just
try to fix this man in our mind. Each of you, briefly, how
would you characterize Sousa’s place in American musical and
cultural history? What was he then, how is he regarded now?
MR. NEWSOM: Well, he was regarded in his time as really the
great American musician, by at least most Americans, if not
those who were looking for some symphonic composer. You have
to keep in mind that he was a bandsman, and growing up in a
time when bands did fulfill the work of a full symphony
orchestra. So he was carrying this enormous weight of
introducing Americans to a wide range of serious and
entertaining music from all over, through his band. On top
of that he was the superb composer of marches, the composer
of marches better than I think anybody who came before him,
and anybody who has ever come after him. And that, I think,
is the most distinctive feature of Sousa, as the great
American composer of marches.
MR. WATTENBERG: Jerry, how is he regarded now?
MR. RIFE: Well, if we think of Sousa, everybody gets in
their mind a concept, the idea of the summer concert,
the gazebo, the immaculately dressed uniform band, the
superb musician, the wonderful kids playing and running
around through the grass. That is what most people think
of as American music. A lot of people think this is what
American music is, and certainly that’s what Sousa was.
MR. WATTENBERG: Loras, what about his talent as a composer?
How good was his music?
MR. SCHISSEL: He has about a year of schooling, regular
schooling. But, spent most of his childhood in an Italian
conservatory down on Eighth Street in Washington, here,
doing the same things that Johann Strauss learned about,
the same things that Brahms had to learn about. It was your
basic, you know, three hours of music --
MR. WATTENBERG: But, where is the beef? How did it come out,
a lot of people went through classical musical training and
they are forgotten people now, and they wrote a lot of music.
How good was his music?
MR. SCHISSEL: Sousa is to marches what Beethoven is to symphonies.
I mean, it doesn’t get any better than Sousa when it comes to
writing marches.
MR. WATTENBERG: Now, marches -- I mean, we think of marches sort
of subconsciously as Sousa. But, marches are a great part of music
history themselves?
MR. SCHISSEL: It’s dance music, really. A march is dance music.
You talk now about the Washington Post March, when it was written
it was synonymous with the two-step. I mean, it killed the waltz.
The two step came in in the late 1880s early ’90s, and the
Washington Post March was so synonymous with the two-step that if
you were to dance with your girlfriend and you wanted a two-step,
you didn’t tell the orchestra conductor, you didn’t say play a
two-step, we want a two-step, you’d say play a Washington Post.
It was so synonymous with the dance step that the dance step was
known as the Washington Post. I mean, in his time, Sousa was
Madonna, Sousa was Elvis, he was the most popular musician in the
United States, maybe one of the most popular musicians in the world,
because his music went all over the world. It was pop, pop music.
And this was before radio, before records. And he did this -- he
became a superstar in person.
MR. NEWSOM: Absolutely. And I think that may have hurt his chances
of being taken seriously, because anyone who is that popular can’t
possibly, to certain people, be all that serious. He was, as he
said himself, was an entertainer first, he was not an educator.
MR. WATTENBERG: Of course, the same thing I think would have been
said by Shakespeare
MR. NEWSOM: Sure, exactly.
MR. WATTENBERG: That he was a playwright, an entertainer who writes
about people stabbing each other, killing each other, and whatever.
MR. NEWSOM: What he has to overcome still I think is a prejudice,
at least in America towards band music as being a second class
kind of music. That’s been a long term problem. We are still in a
situation where bands are regarded as a second class kind of music.
MR. WATTENBERG: How do you distinguish between a band and an
orchestra, I guess is what I meant?
MR. NEWSOM: It’s purely a matter of the strings.
MR. RIFE: The strings are in an orchestras, bands do not have
strings. Bands, instead of the string section will have a large
clarinet section, or a woodwinds section that will take over
the position that a string section would have, violins, and
violas, and cellos and things. So that’s the difference between
the two organizations, orchestra and band. Now, there was a huge
tradition of bands in the United States in the 19th Century, and
into the early 20th Century, every little town had a band.
MR. WATTENBERG: Still do, I mean, you’ve got 150-200 piece
marching bands in Texas high schools.
MR. RIFE: You’ve got 20-piece community bands in little towns
across the country. But, there were tens of thousands of them
across the United States, and when John Phillip Sousa brought
his professional touring concert band into these towns, it was
as if they were playing directly to the people, and that was
one of the reasons he was so popular, I think. So many people
were playing band instruments.
MR. WATTENBERG: We did a program on Think Tank last year when
they opened the Norman Rockwell exhibit at the Hy Museum in
Atlanta. Is there a similar sort of elitist scorn of Sousa?
Can you say that Sousa -- you say that Rockwell was America’s
Vermier, could you say Sousa was America’s Mozart or whatever?
MR. RIFE: You could say that, I would think. He doesn’t have
the standing today that he deserves, I think we all agree with
that. When Sousa died in 1932, a good chunk of the band movement
died with him, I believe. And academic band took over, at that
point, there were still some professional bands around, but the
academics took over, and it was a different period, a different
time. The band movement was fading. Sousa knew this in the end
of his life, he knew that with the depression, and with jazz
coming in, and new popular music, that there was a different
feeling. In fact, his tours became less long at the end of his
life. So it’s up to us now, I believe, to bring Sousa back, to
make him popular again, and to perform his music, in the way he
performed it. And I’m very pleased to be a part of that.
MR. NEWSOM: In the area of the march he is absolutely unmatched,
he is superb. He didn’t write extended works, he didn’t write
long symphonies, he didn’t write works that were challenging to
audiences, and he dealt with challenging musical problems. And I
think there’s a legitimate area for that kind of work. But, in
the area of writing these absolutely amazing pieces there’s nobody
in the world who can touch him. And I think for that reason alone
he should be honored as one of our absolutely great composers,
along with Gershwin, and Copeland, and many others.
MR. WATTENBERG: Is there disagreement with that?
MR. SCHISSEL: Well, I’m not ready to put any requiem on anything,
but I think Sousa’s music has been as popular as the day he wrote
it. I think there’s always been this great tradition of bands and
band music, and I think part of the problem is we’ve often forgotten
that this music is the people’s music, it’s as basic as anything
American, it’s as basic as those covers on the Saturday Evening Post.
MR. WATTENBERG: Immortalized in the music.
MR. SCHISSEL: Sure.
MR. NEWSOM: Exactly.
MR. WATTENBERG: Hold on one minute. I just want to talk to our
viewers for a moment. We at Think Tank, as you regular viewers
know, depend on your feedback to make our program better. Please,
email us at thin...@pbs.org.
Now, back to where we were. I want to ask you each a question.
What should our viewers hear?
MR. SCHISSEL: The Stars and Stripes Forever, I mean, it’s --
MR. WATTENBERG: Hum it.
MR. SCHISSEL: It’s the national march of the United States. We
have two official pieces of music in the United States, The
Star Spangled Banner is our national anthem, and The Stars and
Stripes Forever is our national march.
MR. RIFE: I would say the Washington Post, because it played
such an important part in the development of Sousa, it was
his springboard, his first really important march. And as Loras
said, it was adopted by the dancing master’s convention, and the
dancing masters said, well, let’s make this into the new two-step.
And it became popular worldwide, it really did the most to make
him the superstar that he was to become.
MR. WATTENBERG: Jon?
MR. NEWSOM: I can’t -- you could pick a number of other pieces,
and these guys have picked up some of the best choices. There
are individual marches that are so wonderful that you could start
with any of them and make the case.
MR. WATTENBERG: Let’s hear the three of you do something? No,
seriously, I have a plan.
(Musical break.)
MR. NEWSOM: I have one other, just in case you have room for
another, El Capitan, which has --
MR. WATTENBERG: That’s a full opera, isn’t it?
MR. NEWSOM: It comes from an opera, and Sousa got some of his
best things from his operas, from his operettas. And El Capitan
has one -- he does something in that, that he does elsewhere,
but he does it so well in El Capitan. It’s this very simple
unison strain, it’s not remarkable in itself, but it comes in
just the right place. He had a genius for doing something,
you could say it’s so simple, how could that be impressive,
how could that come off? He does, in the Pathfinder of Panama
there’s this wonderful little brass fanfare right in the
middle of everything, if you took that out and put it aside --
MR. WATTENBERG: How does it go?
MR. NEWSOM: Just a little bugle call.
MR. RIFE: It would be just like Mozart. Mozart had this uncanny
ability to know when to write what. And Sousa in these marches,
in the marches that we’re talking about, had that same ability,
that same instinct to know exactly what simple piece should go
right in the middle and where.
MR. WATTENBERG: I have a confession to make. I probably have
about 20 CDs of collected marches, and whenever I’m feeling
blue that’s what I put on. And it’s right up there with boosting,
I mean, wake up.
MR. SCHISSEL: It’s a drug.
MR. RIFE: I tell my students, use this music, use the Bach
Brandenburg Concertos, use Sousa’s music as a mood changing
thing to do. And it really does work for everybody.
(Interjection from LV - told ya so, assholes. I'm not the
only one who can hear it. These cats are all stone classical
academics with plenty of alphabet after their names, too.)
MR. WATTENBERG: Now, one of the raps on Sousa is that he
was a blatant self-promoter, true?
MR. SCHISSEL: Yes.
MR. WATTENBERG: True.
MR. RIFE: Sousa was an enthusiast, he had two goals in his
life, he wanted his music to be successful and his performance
to be successful, and he had a great deal of ambition, and he
was very proud of his ambition.
MR. NEWSOM: He was a blatant self-promoter, and brilliant,
and for the right reasons, because -- at least I think he
was so for the right reasons, he believed that this was and
is a great country. He believed that somebody who is as in
the public eye as he was should be a model of comportment.
He thought his morals and his ethical standards should be
held up to scrutiny and found to be unimpeachable.
MR. WATTENBERG: Did he ever consider running for political
office?
MR. NEWSOM: Never, he couldn’t have gotten more than he
had already. He was the president already in that field
that he chose for himself.
MR. WATTENBERG: Now, am I correct, in the course of him
thinking that his first role was to be an entertainer,
I guess the popular way to say it was did he pander to
public taste, rather than try to elevate it?
MR. SCHISSEL: It’s funny, when I first started doing all
this Sousa business I started talking to a lot of people
either that played in his band or went to his concerts.
And it’s funny how you get a different answer from everyone
about what it was like to go to a Sousa concert, and I
think mainly it’s because he aimed sort of right for the
middle, in a sense. And he always had a phrase, one of
the great orchestra conductors of the time was Theodore
Thomas, and they played a lot of the same music, you know,
a lot of the same type pieces of it. And he said, Thomas
gives them Wagner and Beethoven and popular music hoping
to educate them. He said, I play Wagner and Beethoven and
popular music and hope I entertain them. The same music,
just a different approach.
MR. WATTENBERG: And the theory would be that by entertaining
them you impart a lot more education?
MR. RIFE: Absolutely, yes. He did make programming -- it was
a special talent of his. He knew through the back of his neck
what the audience wanted to hear. And he would announce an
encore during the bow to the first clarinet player, and it
would filter through the band, and he would come swinging
around and the downbeat would happen, and there would be the
encore, because he knew that’s what the people wanted. And he
delivered what they wanted. And that’s why he was so successful.
MR. NEWSOM: We have programs that are the printed programs that
were handed out, and that was the set piece. The programs that
he really gave were not always documented, but we do have some
wonderful examples where people have written in-between. This is
what he played between two numbers. In a way you can think of
programming as a kind of composing. He is putting together the
evening or the afternoon of entertainment on the spot. He knows
this framework will work, but if he has a Wagner selection that
maybe they’re going to have to have a new Sousa march to perk
them up.
MR. WATTENBERG: Now, by the time Sousa died there was already
a recording industry. Do we have recordings of him?
MR. NEWSOM: Lots with the band, and a very few with himself.
MR. SCHISSEL: He didn’t like it.
MR. NEWSOM: He didn’t like recording.
MR. SCHISSEL: He said even radio broadcasts he didn’t like,
because he said, I turn around and no one is there.
MR. NEWSOM: I think he was afraid that the experience of going
out to the park and sitting on the grass, and smelling the trees,
and the grass, and everything would be lost. You can’t replicate
the experience of a band concert on any known media, even today
with virtual reality, and everything we’ve --
MR. WATTENBERG: What should Sousa’s role in America today be?
MR. NEWSOM: I think in a way he has the role, and there’s nothing
we can do about it one way or the other. And that is his music is
there, and there really are bands who love it and understand it.
I was talking to Jerry before the program saying, and I really
mean this, that American music may be saved in the Midwest, where
the tradition of bands goes on, whether the board of education
decides to cut out music appreciation in high school or not. That
tradition has kept us going when decisions that may not have been
very good ones deprived a lot of kids from learning about good music.
There is a real going concern. And when you’ve got that, and you’ve
got the music, you don’t have to do anything. I think it’s there
and it’s going to continue.
MR. RIFE: I think when you play this music, as Loras and I do,
for crowds of standing room only, and you do an encore of a Sousa
march, and the response is overwhelming, you have to have faith
that the music will live on, and that the audiences are out there
wanting it, and supporting it, and making it live again. Sousa
would be very pleased, I think, to know that his music is still
being performed, not surprised, but very, very pleased. And I
think it will be performed, The Stars and Stripes Forever.
MR. SCHISSEL: I just like turning around at my concerts and seeing
people in their 80s and 90s, and when you’re playing that music
their feet are moving. You don’t see anyone not smiling. And what’s
great is when you see a two-year old or a three-year old, or a
12-year old, something like that, the same smile, the same foot
tapping. It’s music that belongs to all of us. And people can
talk it to death, you play the music, everything is fine.
MR. WATTENBERG: Well, another hot controversy on the Think Tank
set, ranging the full gamut from A to B. I think we are in pretty
solid agreement that this was a most remarkable American.
Thank you, Jerry Rife, John Newsom, and Loras Schissel. For
Think Tank I’m Ben Wattenberg.
ANNOUNCER: We at Think Tank depend on your views to make our
show better. Please send your questions and comments to New
River Media, 1219 Connecticut Avenue, Northwest, Washington,
D.C. 20036, or email us at thin...@pbs.org. To learn more
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This has been a production of BJW, Incorporated, in association
with New River Media, which are solely responsible for its content.
Additional funding is provided by the John M. Olin Foundation,
the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Smith Richardson
Foundation, and the Donner Canadian Foundation.
(End of program.)
________________________________________________________________
Bruce Morgen
The gist of this transcript
is the Sousa was a very good
genre composer in the same
sense that Johann Strauss
and Sigmund Romberg were --
the single comparison with
Beethoven is clearly
specious, because the march
(essentially a dance tune
according to the transcript)
is a far less demanding form
than the symphony.
*Nothing* in the transcript
indicates that Sousa's name
should be spoken in the
breath with that of J.S.
Bach, let alone his skills
compared to someone whose
works still stand at the
very pinnacle of western
music over two and a half
centuries after his death.
Lord Valve <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
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paul
"Bruce Morgen" <edi...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ni11s0djnfarptt7q...@4ax.com...
>
> The gist of this transcript
> is the Sousa was a very good
> genre composer in the same
> sense that Johann Strauss
> and Sigmund Romberg were --
> the single comparison with
> Beethoven is clearly
> specious, because the march
> (essentially a dance tune
> according to the transcript)
> is a far less demanding form
> than the symphony.
>
> *Nothing* in the transcript
> indicates that Sousa's name
> should be spoken in the
> breath with that of J.S.
> Bach, let alone his skills
> compared to someone whose
> works still stand at the
> very pinnacle of western
> music over two and a half
> centuries after his death.
well, hell!!! if it ain't as good as J.S.Bach, then he DESERVES to be made
fun of, and OUGHT to be the butt of left wing retard cowards like Bruce
Morgen.
paul
arizona
zoot...@gmail.com
better and more interesting musician and teacher that Sousa. The
question, "Who is the best muscian?" requires a subjective judgement
anyway predicated on one's own musican tastes and music education. It
would be expected that Lord Valve would like bombastic music Sousa
while someone like myself might prefer Segovia or say...Captain
Beefheart.
fishhead
> Andre Segov<snip>
Lady, this is a guitar amp site.
It's a well-known fact that Segovia said that the
worst thing that ever happened to guitar was the
invention of the electric guitar and amplifier.
Please use 'OT' if you are going to talk about
Segovia here.
And try to get those cats under control.
I think Rum-Tum-Tuggins is stealing Skylar's
food when you aren't looking.
Bobsyeruncle
Lord Valve wrote:
> Lord Valve Speaketh:
>
(more crap about Sousa snipped)
No matter how patriotic you are, Sousa does not amount to more than a
pimple on Bach's ass. Sousa composed marches and Bach composed
symphonies. Comparisons to Bach are not only unwarranted in Sousa's
case, they are just plain idiotic. Music history resounds with Bach's
name. Sousa's name may get a brief mention. If you are indeed
classically trained, you already know this. Why not just admit that
you made a mistake and get on with life. I think many would respect you
for this.
Bob
Elvis Kabong
an obsessive hard-on for 2nd rate one-dimensional, one-genre
songleader as if he's the cat's meow of the universe.
The more you post on Sousa, the more you bore us.
But I guess it's just like your big gun obsession -
some other department has a big deficiency.
BTW, are you going to compose some better, more successful music
than John Lennon's music yet? We're waiting...
"Lard Valve" <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:41C0807E...@ix.netcom.com...
> Lard Valve Speaketh:
Elvis Kabong
obviously fishbrain can't play as good as Segovia.
therefore fishbrain think Segovia OT.
fishbrain think fishbrain a brainiac.
everyone know fishbrain is retard.
"fishhead" <fish...@qwerty.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Kt4wd.653$yK....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
TD Madden
TD Madden
Fearless Freep
shitting on Sousa... So they don't like him... Who cares? They don't like
Bush, either, and the nation told them what we think of THAT.
WTF? Why all this hatred directed at a guy who wrote marches, however
learned and scholarly he may or may not have been? You'd think they'd have
bigger shit to boil their heads over than that.
Hey, folks: BUSH WON! Stew over THAT, for crying out loud! There's going to
be new SCOTUS appointees! Probably *several*. Suffer and wail over THAT!
Does the fact that there are marches, and played by brass bands, really hurt
you THAT much?
Freep
"Bobsyeruncle" <shoutsn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103158566.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Bobsyeruncle
FOAD, toady. Lardo doesn't seem to want to let it drop, does he? I
don't see you telling him to STFU.
Bob
Bobsyeruncle
Fearless Freep wrote:
> What I can't get is what these liberals think they buy themselves, by
> shitting on Sousa... So they don't like him... Who cares? They don't
like
> Bush, either, and the nation told them what we think of THAT.
>
> WTF? Why all this hatred directed at a guy who wrote marches, however
> learned and scholarly he may or may not have been? You'd think they'd
have
> bigger shit to boil their heads over than that.
>
> Hey, folks: BUSH WON! Stew over THAT, for crying out loud! There's
going to
> be new SCOTUS appointees! Probably *several*. Suffer and wail over
THAT!
> Does the fact that there are marches, and played by brass bands,
really hurt
> you THAT much?
>
> Freep
>
It will never convince anyone that Sousa is even in the same musical
universe as Bach. It has nothing to do with you Retardicons. Not
everything is about you Retardicons! Personally, I find Sousa's music
rather one-dimensional and trite- patriotic tripe. That's not the
point- Lardo's unfortunate suggestion that Sousa was comparable to Bach
is. He hasn't been able to get over the thorough ass-kicking he got and
as long as he makes these foolish attempts to prove his statement after
the fact, he's gonna hear about it.
Bob
Bruce Morgen
I didn't make fun of him, I
categorized him sensibly --
several dozen notches below
the J.S. Bachs, W.A. Mozarts,
or even the Irving Berlins
and Duke Ellingtons of the
world. He was *great* at
what he did, but what he did
was woefully limited compared
to the genuine genius Lard
Vulva compared him to.
I don't know what that has to
do with making fun of anyone
other than Willie, who's just
being his usual asinine self,
trying to make face-saving
speeches with both feet
firmly stuffed into his
mouth. That has nothing to
do with politics -- yours,
his, or mine -- it's just
something ego-bloated fools
can be relied upon to do from
time to time.
Bruce Morgen
J.S. Bach didn't compose
symphonies -- orchestral suites
and concerti were as close as
he got iirc. At least one of
his sons did, though.
fishhead
> fishbrain sound jealous.
> obviously fishbrain can't play as good as Segovia.
> therefore fishbrain think Segovia OT.
> fishbrain think fishbrain a brainiac.
> everyone know fishbrain is retard.
No, I'm simply stating a *fact*.
Segovia said it, and there ain't *shit* you can find that
says otherwise.
Your idiotic posts on Usenet are a lot like you stumbling
around town, pausing, and pissing in your navy blue pants.
It gives you a warm feeling for a moment, but few notice
or care.
Ultimately, though, all you did was to piss your pants.
Again.
fishhead
> I really don't see how a dickless maroon like you can develop
> an obsessive hard-on for 2nd rate one-dimensional, one-genre
> songleader as if he's the cat's meow of the universe.
>
"Cat's meow"?
Where do you get your slang, rummaging through a box of
60-year-old bobbie soxer magazines in some old lady's attic?
Be real careful when you try on that poodle dress...if
anybody finds you, they'll probably take pictures before
they wake you up.
fishhead
>>
>
> Tell Lardo to stop posting shit about Sousa.
Translation: "Somebody change me!...baby has poopie diaper."
TM
>saga. He's part of our musical heritage.
You compared him to Bach. You missed.
TM
>you made a mistake and get on with life.
Never happen.
>I think many would respect you
>for this.
Never happen.
Bobsyeruncle
Bob
Fearless Freep
>
> Fearless Freep wrote:
> > What I can't get is what these liberals think they buy themselves, by
> > shitting on Sousa... So they don't like him... Who cares? They don't
> like
> > Bush, either, and the nation told them what we think of THAT.
> >
> > WTF? Why all this hatred directed at a guy who wrote marches, however
> > learned and scholarly he may or may not have been? You'd think they'd
> have
> > bigger shit to boil their heads over than that.
> >
> > Hey, folks: BUSH WON! Stew over THAT, for crying out loud! There's
> going to
> > be new SCOTUS appointees! Probably *several*. Suffer and wail over
> THAT!
> > Does the fact that there are marches, and played by brass bands,
> really hurt
> > you THAT much?
> >
> > Freep
> >
> Freep, you're a retard. Tell Lardo to stop posting shit about Sousa.
> It will never convince anyone that Sousa is even in the same musical
> universe as Bach. It has nothing to do with you Retardicons. Not
> everything is about you Retardicons! Personally, I find Sousa's music
> rather one-dimensional and trite- patriotic
You say *I*'m a retard, but you just put the lie to your argument that it's
not about [politics]. It is to *you*, and you're worried enough about how
much it shows, that you feel the need to officially (and laughably) deny it.
The awful truth is, you hate him the same way, and for the same reason, as
you'd hate, say, a guy who made American flags for a living -- Because you
hate America and the people who love it. You say it has nothing to do with
Republicans; then why the need to complain about it being supposedly
patriotic?
Hey, go ahead and write about it. It's does ME no harm.... And what *else*
do you have to do with your time, after all, *work for a living*?
Freep
howard...@hotmail.com
snifff,,, I smell a hypocrite, or is it a dead fish?
HJA
Sousa = Bach !!!
Hilarious!!!!!
paul
<zoot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103155365....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Andre Segovia had less than 700 web pages but I think he was a far
> better and more interesting musician and teacher that Sousa. The
> question, "Who is the best muscian?" requires a subjective judgement
that was NEVER the question. the question was, is sousa so bad that he
deserves derision and ridicule from you leftoid spaz's. the clear answer is
NO, he didn't. it was unfair bullshit that your side was making such fun of
a fine musician. i myself prefer the allman brothers, but i wouldn't
belittle ANYone just to make a cutting point at someone i disagreed with.
your side lost the election. you lose this argument too. get over it.
paul
arizona
paul
bruce, you aren't paying attention again. this whole thread is about how you
leftoids have made fun of sousa (you gonna try to deny it? i'll google all
of you leftoids and prove my point) and whether he is worthy of your
derision or whether he is getting unfair bullshit from the left, kinda like
the whole country got for the entire campaign recently.
pay attention. stay on topic... if you can.
paul
arizona
Lord Valve
Three eminent musicologists not only compared Sousa's
marches to the Brandenbergs, they compared his ability
to Mozart and Beethoven. They stated that he should be
ranked with Gershwin and Copeland. And, for good measure,
they also compared him with Madonna and Elvis.
Now, there's no doubt about what's going on here. I didn't
say Sousa was the "equal" of Bach, I said "comparisons
are not unwarranted." And, as we can see from the
transcript, indeed they are not. In fact, they're so warranted
that the Baboon Squad had a shit-fit over the concept, and
began their usual descent into America-bashing, accusations
of child molestation, feces, penises, and personal attacks.
Howie even managed to tell several outright lies on the
thread...and no-one said a word. Hell, if I said the sky was
blue and there's also blue on the American flag, you and the
rest of the America-hating Baboons would do exactly the
same thing.
So fuck you and the rest of the Squad, Brucie...what happened
on this thread is that the usual suspects proved how easily
their knees jerk, and a bunch or regular folks learned some
things about a great American whose works are looked upon
with disdain by most of the academic establishment, thus
broadening their musical horizons. And those three musicologists,
well... I guess they must be Republicans.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
Lord Valve
Musician
Bruce Morgen wrote:
(the usual Baboon Squad scrap)
Bruce Morgen
Bullshit. I don't speak
for anyone else and I
didn't make fun of Sousa
-- period. Iow, I *do*
deny taking part in any
Sousa bashing -- the guy
obviously knew his trade
and imo that's always
respectable. The thread
is nominally about a
"leftoid" public TV
conversation on the
subject of Sousa, posted
by Lard Vulva. Some
folks may have gone
overboard deriding Sousa
but I have not been one
of them. I save my
derision for those who
have earned it -- in
this case, that's
Willie, not Sousa.
>
>pay attention. stay on topic... if you can.
>
Read the "Subject:"
header and consider
treatment for your ADD.
Gaia's Avenger
"Certainly "jazz" takes up a goodly share of the American's time,- too
much, to my way of thinking. "Jazz," like the well-known little girl
with the curl, when it is good is very, very good, and when it is bad
it is horrid. The greater part of it is very bad. Its popularity is
the result of the avowed tastes of those people who care only for
music which is strongly rhythmical. Its harmonic structure is not new
and its melodic design is very, very old. And this wonderful art will,
I am positive, some day disappear- when the dancer tires of it-
unwept, unhonored and unsung. It is raging now, to be
sure, and has a considerable following, but it does not truly
represent America to the world; it does reflect a certain phase of the
world's life (not America's alone) since it employs primitive rhythms
which excite the basic human impulses. It will endure just as long as
people hear it through their feet instead of their brains!"
-John Philip Sousa
+
Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://johnnyasia.info
"If you want to know what the future of music sounds like..listen to
Johnny Asia, then you'll know!" - Dom Minasi
" the mans' fusion of classic-flamenco-cosmological
remains eternally memorable.....a cosmonaut to infinity...
the music is a beatific mind-blow.....
Kingston Daily Freeman, Kingston, NY
Sunday, Jan. 11, 2004
+
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
Want to know what's really going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
always been authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material
available to advance understanding of political, human rights, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues. I
believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright
Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
zoot...@gmail.com
Sousa is better than Bach. don't weasel out by calling names, or
switching topics. Your declaration that we have a different preference
than you merely supports my argumnet that music is subjective and one's
preferences are based on one's education (i.e. culture) and personal
tastes. You are wimping out -TOTALLY.
Bobsyeruncle
WTF are you talking about? Is English your second language?
> The awful truth is, you hate him the same way, and for the same
reason, as
> you'd hate, say, a guy who made American flags for a living --
Because you
> hate America and the people who love it. You say it has nothing to do
with
> Republicans; then why the need to complain about it being supposedly
> patriotic?
I hate no one. Not even Republicans. Patriotism is for idiots too
afraid to question their leaders. I don't, however, hate patriots.
They're kind of amusing.
>
> Hey, go ahead and write about it. It's does ME no harm.... And what
*else*
> do you have to do with your time, after all, *work for a living*?
I guess that's why you took time out of your busy schedule to respond,
eh Freep?
Bob
Elvis Kabong
"paul" <nospam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1Liwd.2$iH.1@fed1read02...
It is You who is not paying attention!
I'm the one who is making fun of Sousa, but mostly his music.
It's sappy, sentimental, hokey and for the most part boring.
Some people like it, that's ok, but it's not my cup-o-tea.
What I really can't stand some modern rock song, a romantic love song,
a cool protest song or a counter-culture anthem being "Sousa-ized,"
in other words, bastardized and made insipid by *any* crummy
marching band! Sure, they have the right to pervert some really
cool music and make it into a military-style march anthem, but
that doesn't mean I have to like it. And no one has to like the
way Lard Fartso inflates Sousa's rep while knocking down
John Lennon. AND it doesn't matter who was more "successful"
or the "better" composer or who had the most talent or the politics
of either of them. It's a matter of subjective tastes in music.
TM
>deserves derision and ridicule from you leftoid spaz's.
Your politics skew everything. It isn't left or right, the question was, does
Sousa rank with Bach.
TM
>began their usual descent into America-bashing, accusations
>of child molestation, feces, penises, and personal attacks.
OMG! Personal attacks!
>So fuck you and the rest of the Squad,
OMG! Personal attacks!
Lord Valve
Gaia's Avenger wrote:
>
>
> "Certainly "jazz" takes up a goodly share of the American's time,- too
> much, to my way of thinking. "Jazz," like the well-known little girl
> with the curl, when it is good is very, very good, and when it is bad
> it is horrid. The greater part of it is very bad. Its popularity is
> the result of the avowed tastes of those people who care only for
> music which is strongly rhythmical. Its harmonic structure is not new
> and its melodic design is very, very old. And this wonderful art will,
> I am positive, some day disappear- when the dancer tires of it-
> unwept, unhonored and unsung. It is raging now, to be
> sure, and has a considerable following, but it does not truly
> represent America to the world; it does reflect a certain phase of the
> world's life (not America's alone) since it employs primitive rhythms
> which excite the basic human impulses. It will endure just as long as
> people hear it through their feet instead of their brains!"
> -John Philip Sousa
And Sousa, as usual, was dead on target. The "jazz" of Sousa's
heyday was known as "ragtime," and is today little more than a
historical curiosity. As it evolved over the course of the 20th
century, through the Charleston, jitterbugging, swing, jive and whatnot,
it was always dance music. When Krupa shifted timekeeping
duties from the kick drum to the ride cymbal, Jazz ceased to
be dance music in a matter of less than a decade; the slack
was taken up by its bastard child Rock, which still holds the
position nearly 50 years later. No-one dances to Jazz
nowadays, besides "interpretive" professionals. Jazz has
become largely "cerebral" music, thanks in no small part to
the likes of Coltrane, Gillespie et al in the Bebop movement,
who freed up time signatures once the onus of providing
easily discernable rythms for those on the dance floor was
removed.
I would also point out that Sousa introduced Ragtime to
the Europeans, where it had a profound influence on
Debussy, Ravel, Schoenberg, etc.
But you probably don't want to hear that.
Lord Valve
Expert
Bobsyeruncle
That's not true. Lardo suggested that Sousa was in the same league as
Bach (I still wonder what he was smoking). I admit that I did bash
Sousa, but a lot of you apes bashed me. I knew it would tweak some of
you, and it did. Unlike you, I'm not crying a river about it. I'll just
bash you right back. Is your patriotic tit twisted by someone dissing
Sousa, fer chrissakes? That's pathetic. Get a life.
Bob
Bruce Morgen
Actually, I'll buy the
Gershwin comparison at
least somewhat -- but
Gerhwin tackled much
more difficult projects
than Sousa. Sousa was
certainly a much better
composer than Madonna
or Elvis, though. :-)
That said, I maintain
that any serious
comparison with J.S.
Bach *is* totally
"unwarranted" -- and I'd
certainly say that about
Copeland, because he too
was a very competent
professional who was
nonetheless a *long* way
from Bach-level genius
and productivity.
Don't mistake me for the
people who deride Sousa
as an "oompah" jingle
writer -- the guy was
obviously highly skilled
and there's no denying
his success in lifting
the march as a form to
musical respectability.
That's an achievement
the very best of us will
never even get close to,
just as Sousa never got
close to the incredible
attainments of Johann
Sebastian Bach.
Lord Valve <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Bruce Morgen
Great discovery, Johnny --
not only was Sousa a
rather typical white
bread Euro-snob, but he
completely ignored the
"basic human impulses"
evoked by his own marches,
which are every bit as
"primitive" as those he
attributes to jazz and
much more destructive.
Moreover, he also fails
to mention the dimension
of improvisation that
jazz brought back into
western music after over
a century of almost
total hibernation.
Too bad he didn't live
long enough to hear and
appreciate the likes of
Ellington, Mingus, and
Gil Evans -- so we'll
never know if he had
the personal integrity
to eat his words....
Bobsyeruncle
Lord Valve wrote:
> Well, Brucie, it's obvious that you didn't read the transcript.
> Three eminent musicologists not only compared Sousa's
> marches to the Brandenbergs, they compared his ability
> to Mozart and Beethoven. They stated that he should be
> ranked with Gershwin and Copeland. And, for good measure,
> they also compared him with Madonna and Elvis.
I'd say that that praise crosses the line from praise into the realm of
hyperbole. I wouldn't be so quick to quote them as a legitimate source.
Opinions are like Lardo- I mean assholes.
>
> Now, there's no doubt about what's going on here. I didn't
> say Sousa was the "equal" of Bach, I said "comparisons
> are not unwarranted." And, as we can see from the
> transcript, indeed they are not.
You still won't admit that you were a boob for making the statement and
that you're still a boob for trying to back it up with what- A PBS
documentary- this is starting to get funny again.
In fact, they're so warranted
> that the Baboon Squad had a shit-fit over the concept, and
> began their usual descent into America-bashing, accusations
> of child molestation, feces, penises, and personal attacks.
> Howie even managed to tell several outright lies on the
> thread...and no-one said a word. Hell, if I said the sky was
> blue and there's also blue on the American flag, you and the
> rest of the America-hating Baboons would do exactly the
> same thing.
The Baboon Squad- I guess that's opposed to the Toady Brigade that
waits for your latest utterance with bated breath. I understand why
you're tweaked. You can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't
agree that the writer of some of your treasured patriotic marches is
comparable to Bach. I guess you have to be a true American patriot to
grasp the genius of such a statement- ROFLMAO.
>
> So fuck you and the rest of the Squad, Brucie...what happened
> on this thread is that the usual suspects proved how easily
> their knees jerk, and a bunch or regular folks learned some
> things about a great American whose works are looked upon
> with disdain by most of the academic establishment, thus
> broadening their musical horizons. And those three musicologists,
> well... I guess they must be Republicans.
I guess those academics must be Democrats. The musicologists may be
patriots like you yearning for a time when the Cold War polarized the
people and the word Communism was whispered among the brave few.
Lardo, just admit that you were wrong. Ah, but your hatred of all the
people that called you on this one won't let you, will it.
Bob
zoot...@gmail.com
well Sousa was wrong about Jazz. Cakewalk must have been his heavy
metal.
Just compare the number of Google results for "John Coltrane" with
"John Phillip Sousa"
May I say that Sousa's statement about jazz reveals the "racism" of the
era. Oh, god, the cats are gonna caterwal now!!! Note that I did not
say that Sousa was a racist. I said his comment reveals the racism of
the era.
Well, here's an account of an all black band lead by Jim Europe who
played Sousa with patriotic fervor.
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/hhf.htm
Excerpted from: Proof Through the Night: Music and the Great War
available with accompanying musical CD at The Publishers Website
here http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9146.html
Politics, nationalism, combat, technology, art, literature and, above
all, the sounds - beautiful and horrible - that charged wartime life
and accompanied mass death.
Found on http://www.washingtonian.com/people/trent.html
"Whatever I thought of the man or his politics, it could be a hell of a
story. I figured that the pairing of a conservative senator with a more
liberal writer might produce something different from the average
self-serving political memoir.
I told the agent I'd call Lott.
While I was on hold waiting for the senator to come on the line, I had
to listen to several minutes of John Philip Sousa marches. When Lott
came on I told him I had enjoyed it. He was pleased. Finding the music
and setting it up had been hard, he said-the phone people didn't
get a lot of requests from senators to have John Philip Sousa on the
line. "
Found on http://www.perfessorbill.com/index2.htm
Unknown (arranged in 1919 by David W. Guion) - c. 1830s: Turkey in the
Straw, which many of us grew up with on children's records or tapes,
actually started out life as a terribly racist pre-minstrel song called
Zip Coon. It is unknown who actually originated the tune, but there
were at least three pre-Civil War blackface performers who were known
to have performed it regularly on stage and in minstrel shows, complete
with a hoe-down style jig dance. The "Zip Coon" character was
represented in the minstrel shows as a free black who was one of the
finest dressed men about town in his part of the big city, although
education and attitude were not always noted factors in the character.
He was opposite of the not-too-bright but affable "Jim Crow"
caricature. Of equally mysterious origin is the more popular set of
lyrics that make up Turkey in the Straw, although there are
publications as early as the 1880s that apply this tune to that title.
It was a favorite of fiddlers, banjo players, and pianists, and
commonly included in performances or contests during the Ragtime era.
The arrangement presented here is not the same one that is contained in
the sheet music covers shown here, which was initially published in
1899 as a "Rag-Time Fantasie". It is a more challenging and interesting
rendition from 1919, based largely on John Philip Sousa's band
arrangement, that is actually more of a piano fantasy than the
arrangement shown. It includes a number of common pianistic tricks of
the era, with some salutes to more traditional and classic styles.
A history of Cakewalk
"The most popular purveyor of American popular music during the
evolution of jazz was the military or concert band..." This music
apparently is a bottom rung on that evolutionary ladder, for 17 of the
23 selections were published before 1900 and everything is played from
ensemble scores. It is, however, a re-creation of a period military
band and there is just enough lack of extreme precision here so that we
know it is a hometown band and not the ghost of John Philip Sousa
holding the baton.
The John Philip Sousa Band records the ragtime piece, Trombone Sneeze
in 1902, written by Arthur Pryor. Lincoln Park is opened in New
Orleans, as a center for ragtime and early jazz performances. Scott
Joplin publishes The Entertainer: a Ragtime Two-Step, which would
become a popular hit nearly 70 years later. Pianist Jelly Roll Morton
claims to have invented jazz in this year. .
1905 A black newspaper in Indianapolis releases a statement in reaction
to racist songs popular during this period: "Composers should not set
music to a set of words that are a direct insult to the colored race."
Scientist Albert Einstein presents his special theory of
relativity. Pizza is introduced at Lombardi's in NewYork. In 1913,
Scott Joplin said, " I have often sat in theaters and listened to
beautiful ragtime melodies set to almost vulgar words... and I wondered
why some composers will continue to make the public hate the ragtime
melodies because the melodies are set to such bad words."
http://parlorsongs.com/insearch/coonsongs/coonsongs.asp
"Just as with the earlier minstrel shows, skits, entertainers and
entire shows were developed from the coon song and many coon songs
found their way into the legitimate theater as a part of productions.
Even the great John Philip Sousa's famous band popularized some of the
melodies and performed a number of them both at home and abroad. One of
Sousa's assistants, Arthur Pryor even composed some coon songs himself
to keep the supply coming to the band. At the peak of its popularity,
the coon song was everywhere and just about every songwriter in the
country worked to fill the seemingly insatiable demand.
In their time, coon songs spoke volumes about white attitudes towards
African Americans."
zoot...@gmail.com
(Reprise)
By HAMMOND GUTHRIE
Measuring March time
600,000 feet move in place
A modern armada churns at sea--and
21,000 lb. bombs explode Reality TV
Testing fear at home and abroad
The clocks tick slow motion
The pendulums swing perpetual--and
All the dots are lined with clouds
Sousa abruptly awoke in terror
The coda and finale all but a scream
With March time pounding at his bed--and
Sweat bleeding profusely from his brow
When the March was done
Sand had run out of time
Nothing was left to count--and
Only casualties had made the refrain.
paul
"TM" <telem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041216122746...@mb-m22.aol.com...
reread the thread, and the ones that lead up to it. its not MY job to bring
your sorry ass up to speed on whats going on. you comment on shit when you
have no clue what is even going on. did you not read all those posts by your
f**k buddy lefties disparaging Sousa as some kind of joke? where the hell
have you been?
get caught up on whats going on and get back to me. the Bach comment came in
the MIDDLE of the discussion (?!) about the Sousa jokes. It was NOT the
subject of the discussion.
paul
arizona
paul
> "paul" <nospam...@cox.net> wrote:
>>bruce, you aren't paying attention again. this whole thread is about how
>>you
>>leftoids have made fun of sousa (you gonna try to deny it? i'll google all
>>of you leftoids and prove my point) and whether he is worthy of your
>>derision or whether he is getting unfair bullshit from the left, kinda
>>like
>>the whole country got for the entire campaign recently.
>
> Bullshit.... (snip gratuitous bullshit)... The thread
> is nominally about a
> "leftoid" public TV
> conversation on the
> subject of Sousa, posted
> by Lard Vulva. Some
you are slow, bruce, and i will try to take that into account. this thread
is NOT the first mention of Sousa in this group. the fact that you act like
it is, is just silly. Elsewhere in this thread, Ed bloomless has admitted
starting the subject with his disparaging remarks in another thread. this
thread is just the latest incarnation of the topic.
get caught up and get back to me, okay?
paul
arizona
Elvis Kabong
<zoot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103220232....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hmmm, could that be the explanation for Lardo Fartso's hard-on for Sousa?
But it sure as hell does NOT explain his equating Sousa with Bach.
Smokescreen?
paul
<zoot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103217710....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
your an idiot. your side keeps trying to change the subject. NOBODY has said
that Sousa is better than Bach. YOU are the only one who has even SUGESTTED
it. (Bach's music, by the way, as talented as he may have been, SUCKS
imho).
YOU are wimping out - TOTALLY!!!
but then, many of us here expected that of you.
howard...@hotmail.com
'rightwing vs. leftwing' argument. Answer the simple question once and
for all, was Sousa, Bachs equal as a composer or not?
That was the original crux of the whole thread. Lard Valve alluded to
the fact that he was. Many, including me, found this to be completely
ridiculous beyond measure. Soooo, instead of ad hominem, why don't you
chime in with the easy yes or no answer?
As to the election, it's just childish to even mention it in this
thread. It has nothing at all to do with the matter, grow up little
one.
We'll all be waiting your *yes or no* answer to the question.
LV's claim, Bach and Sousa are equals. Do you agree, yes or no. No
waffling there Kerry Jr. : )
cheers..
HJA
Bruce Morgen
Are you always an asshole
or do you just play one
on Usenet? What the
funk does politics have
to do with ones opinion
of Sousa or Bach? I'm
well "caught up" with
whole brouhaha, but
you're so "caught up" in
personalities and
politics that you haven't
typed a single on-topic
word in any of the Sousa-
Bach threads!
So, how do you see the
comparison between John
Philip Sousa and Johann
Sebastian Bach -- are
they close enough in
terms of talent and
historical impact that
such a comparison is
warranted or not? Do you
even care, or are you
chiming in just because
you see the controversy
as some sort of left vs.
right political issue?
howard...@hotmail.com
again : )!
It's of no consequence either way. Prove Sousa is Bachs equal or
fuck off little man! : ) After all, you made the claim! While you're
at it, prove your claim that Bach wrote for the 'glory of god'. Bach,
like Mozart had utter disdain for the church and god.
Beethoven, on the other hand, was deeply religious. His reward for
such ignorance was deafness. Can you think of a more horrible demise
than having an uncontrollable desire to write music and being deaf?
More proof that a god can not exist.
BTW, how many high school marching band members do you think got jobs
from playing Sousa marches, as opposed to Orchestra members who played
Bach? Are there many professional Brass marching bands out there?
Philadelphia's Orchestra is in contract negotions seeking raises to
salaries already well above $120,000 a year. Any marching band members
in that league?
You spent an hour (LOL) looking up your Sousa info, which the average 6
year old could have done in 5 minutes, try looking up those
professional musicians who play Sousa marches, and get back to us, OK?
HJA
Laughing about this 'Sousa = Bach' ignorance again!
howard...@hotmail.com
your imagination, that's why.
But first, post a proof of your claim that Bach wrote for the 'glory of
god',
I'll be waiting. Bach, like Mozart, had utter contempt for the church.
Read some music history, and check back later with your retraction,
OK?
Then you can post my 'lies', that's the way the real world works, after
all.
The silence will no doubt be deafening, right willie boy?
BTW, I already proved some time ago that the sky is NOT blue.
Google it up, there sparky, and get back to us, OK?
HJA
Bach historian
paul
<howard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103224341.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
your lost in the fog, lizzard boy. this subject started in other threads
where (among others) Ed Bloomer disparaged Sousa for creating "right wing"
music, loved by us right wingers, and disparaged by you (yes, they included
all of you left wing nuts) whackos on the left as not worthy of any respect,
and as being so bad as to stain anyone who is accused (us righties) of
listening to it.
it is left vs right, because the whole argument was framed (by one of you
lefties) as BEING a left vs right argument. it was only later that you
lefties were claiming that we right wingers were trying to elevate Sousa
ABOVE Bach somehow. That was NEVER true. Sousa is a great historical
musician and so was Bach. they didn't TRY to do the same things. Sousa STILL
deserves a certain respect for his craft, and does NOT deserve to have his
name thrown, in a derogatory manner, at conservatives or anyone else.
get a clue, and get back to me.
paul
arizona
zoot...@gmail.com
Traditionally, the mental capacity for experiencing, constructing, or
manipulating 'mental imagery' (quasi-perceptual experience).
Imagination is also regarded as responsible for fantasy, inventiveness,
idiosyncrasy, and creative, original, and insightful thought in
general, and, sometimes, for a much wider range of mental activities
dealing with the non-actual, such as supposing, pretending, 'seeing
as', thinking of possibilities, and even being mistaken. See
representation. <Discussion> <References> Nigel J.T. Thomas
www.artsci.wustl.edu/~philos/MindDict/I.html
woooo..."even being mistaken" < must be wrong definition.
Let's look again:
"A warehouse of facts, with poet and liar in joint ownership." [DD]
These qualities converge when a Fundie with Bible appears in a
chatroom. See also Delusion.
members.aol.com/porchnus/dict02.htm
paul
I am ALWAYS an asshole, but only to the folks who earn it through their own
hard efforts.
> funk does politics have
> to do with ones opinion
> of Sousa or Bach? I'm
> well "caught up" with
> whole brouhaha, but
> you're so "caught up" in
> personalities and
> politics that you haven't
> typed a single on-topic
> word in any of the Sousa-
> Bach threads!
>
> So, how do you see the
> comparison between John
> Philip Sousa and Johann
> Sebastian Bach -- are
> they close enough in
> terms of talent and
> historical impact that
> such a comparison is
> warranted or not? Do you
BOTH men have made a major contribution to music. They are NOT the same, and
a direct comparison is unfair to both (in my school orchestra, i played the
Sousaphone part in MANY Bach pieces).
Which of the two has had the greatest lasting effect on Music? I don't think
that the final answer is in yet. I believe that Bach is probably ahead on
points, but I think BOTH are great men.
THAT is not what this is about though, as you know. it is JUST what you
LEFTIES would like to turn it into, because you prize your high and mighty
attitude towards music, and the repeated disparaging remarks about a
distinguished musician/composer shows the lie to your high and mighty
opinion of yourselves. You all think your better, and smarter than anyone
else, yet your ranks are full of racists and bigots of all types (ed
bloomer, musical bigot) and pro violence (pro terrorist) bullshit assholes.
you guys talk big, but walk small.
paul
arizona
zoot...@gmail.com
ticket for turning left on a right turn signal!!!
Bobsyeruncle
It's humourous the way that you interpret things to back your own case,
Lardo. Jazz continues to be played and listened to by many worldwide.
Sousa makes what I would consider to be a head up the ass statement
that basically says that jazz will not persist after the point that
people stop dancing to it. You yourself have indicated that this is not
the case, yet you still say that Sousa was right. What he in effect
said was that the popular music of the time (after his popularity
waned) would never last. He also waxes hypocritically about jazz being
strongly rhythmical- marches aren't? He was wrong. Jazz is
improvisational music, which still draws large crowds at festivals all
over the world. Sousa's contributions to popular music have largely
been relegated to football games.
Bob
zoot...@gmail.com
"Pull over immediately or we will shoot. This is the Thread Direction
Police. You have made a left turn in a right turn only zone. Get off of
your keyboard and put both hands on the yellow circles on the top of
your monitor.
We have checked you IP address, your license to post has expired and
you are a registered Liberal.
FREEZE, any movement on your part will be interpretted as a
revolutionary act of aggression. We are in charge. Your only right it
the right to remain silent. You may not defend yourself. You may not
have an opinion, or posts any facts, or references. We have plonked
you, and will proceed to block you from further postings. We will now
take you to the decontamination zone where you will be terminated."
zoot...@gmail.com
"Medically speaking, there's no accounting for taste."
zoot...@gmail.com
The Repair Guy
>Lord Valve Speaketh:
I put my ear right up to the monitor, and I had trouble
hearing you. Could you speak up a little?
>John Philip Sousa is an important part of the American
>saga. He's part of our musical heritage. To deny this,
>to disparage his memory and his works, says more
>about certain losers who post here than I ever could.
So far, this is opinion presented as fact.
>Here is a transcript of a program which ran on that
>bastion of rightwing propaganda, PBS, dealing with
>Sousa and his impact on all things American. The
>participants (other than the moderator) are the
>director of the music division at the Library of
>Congress, a professor of music at Rider University,
>and a musicologist at the Library of Congress.
>
>If, after reading this, the light of cognition flares,
>however dimly, however briefly, in the recesses
>of your otherwise musically narrow minds, it will
>be enough.
>Or, perhaps not. One can hope.
Translation: "If you agree with my opinions, you're
smart."
--snip transcript--
Note: posting a URL would be more efficient.
FWIW, I think George M. Cohan contributed as
much or more to US music and patriotism.
The Repair Guy
http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/
zoot...@gmail.com
Credit where credit is due. Sousa didn't "discover" Ragtime, Pryor did.
The reason the black muscians didn't get to introduce their music to
Europe, was because they were BLACK. Ragtime is a precusor, not an
equivalent to jazz. Ragtime is also a precursor to other forms of
popular music. Music is a tree with many branches. It appears that you
have little imagination. Do you really believe that there is only one
correct form of music, or that any form of music that does not comply
with your preferences is "worse" that the forms you prefer?
http://www.paragonragtime.com/pryor.html
Arthur Willard Pryor was born in St. Joseph, Missouri in September,
1870. Although at that time, "St. Joe" was still a frontier region,
from the very beginning of life he was surrounded by music. His father,
Samuel, was the town bandmaster, and young Arthur displayed a natural
talent for music. As a child he mastered the cornet, alto horn, valve
trombone, drums, violin, bass viol, and piano. He also soaked up the
exhilarating new rhythms emanating from the African-American sections
of town--a new style called "jig piano," or "rag-time." Not
surprisingly, this section of Missouri was also the point-of-origin for
most of the giants of the classic rag style--Charles L. Johnson, Percy
Wenrich, James Scott, and of course, Scott Joplin.
In August, 1892 he received a telegram from John Philip Sousa, inviting
him to join the "March King's" newly-formed concert band. Pryor
accepted the engagement, and arrived in New York City with thirty-five
cents in his pocket. At the first rehearsal, the young Missourian
dazzled Mr. Sousa and his assembled artists with his astonishing
virtuosity. Frank Holton, then Sousa's first trombonist, immediately
offered to resign his position in deference to Pryor's superior
ability. Sousa convinced Holton to stay on, "since this young fellow
may just be a flash," but within a short time Pryor did become the
first trombonist in the band (Holton left to start a band instrument
factory. His big celebrity endorser?-- Arthur Pryor!).
Soon, Mr. Sousa entrusted Pryor with the duties of featured soloist:
between 1893 and 1903 he performed over ten thousand trombone solos
with the Sousa Band!
But perhaps Arthur Pryor's greatest contribution to American music was
his work as a composer and unabashed promoter of the emerging ragtime
style. Pryor wrote several early syncopated "hits," arranged or adapted
many works of others for band and orchestra performance, and used his
prominent position with the Sousa Band--and later his own band and
orchestra--as a "bully pulpit" for the dissemination of this exciting
new style.
But the Sousa/Pryor association had other important consequences. In
1895 Pryor was promoted to Assistant Conductor of the band. The "March
King" was always ready to cater to his audiences with the latest trends
in popular music, and he relied on "that kid from Missouri" to teach
the newfangled ragtime rhythms to his musicians (many of whom,
incidentally, felt it demeaning to play such music). Sousa himself was
not particularly enthralled with this new idiom, thus Arthur Pryor
conducted the Sousa Band in performances of some of the earliest
instrumental ragtime compositions: selections by Kerry Mills (At A
Georgia Campmeeting, Whistling Rufus, etc.), Abe Holzmann (Smoky Mokes,
Bunch o' Blackberries, etc.), and others. The American public went
wild--and demanded more. Within a year, Pryor began composing his own
pieces featuring the ragged rhythms of his native state. Resulting were
the big "cakewalk" successes Southern Hospitality, Razzazza Mazzazza,
and A Coon Band Contest. Sousa's European Tour of 1900 spread the
ragtime craze to Britain and the Continent. Never before had an
American cultural export commanded such attention around the world.
Pryor's music found favor with the Crowned heads of Europe; even
Germany's notorious Kaiser Wilhelm danced the cakewalk! Although he was
an excellent pianist--and familar with "classic" keyboard
ragtime--Pryor's robust compositions were decidedly conceived for band
or orchestra rendition. Most feature conspicuous countermelodies or
humorous sliding passages for the trombone, as well as other effects
not reproducible by a solo pianist.
Pryor was also assigned the job of leading Sousa's musicians for
phonograph recordings. Mr. Sousa hated the phonograph--he coined the
term "canned music"--and he refused to participate in the arduous
sessions himself. Most of the old 78 r.p.m. records labelled "The Sousa
Band" were actually conducted by Arthur Pryor. Sousa thought (and
fervently hoped) that mechanical music was but a passing fad. Pryor
believed otherwise. He was a sharp business man and, envisioning a vast
and profitable new industry, prepared for himself a place within this
emerging technology.
In 1903 Pryor resigned from the Sousa Band. His ambition now was to go
into business for himself as a composer/bandmaster, and to continue his
work as a musical director for the fledgling Victor Talking Machine
Company. Pryor's new concert band flourished; it completed six
lucrative coast-to-coast tours (1904-1909), and was booked for numerous
important exhibitions, such as the 1904 World's Fair in St. Louis. But
Pryor grew to dislike the hectic pace of touring life, preferring
instead to play annual extended engagements at a number of resort
areas.
For years the Arthur Pryor Band was a powerful summertime drawing card
on the boardwalk in Asbury Park, N.J. (twenty-six seasons), at
Philadelphia's Willow Grove Park (eleven seasons), at the Royal Palm
Park in Florida (nine seasons), at Coney Island, and on the Steel Pier
in Atlantic City. Many contemporary observers commented that the Pryor
organization sounded superior even to Sousa's--not surprising since
Pryor had craftily lured away some of the "March King's" star players.
In the winter months, Pryor occupied himself as a composer and
conductor for a number of New York theatrical productions. From late
1918 into the early 1920s he was Musical Director for the famous
Capitol Theatre in Manhattan; there, in 1919, he conducted the premiere
of a new one-step called Swanee--the first big hit by an rising
songwriter named George Gershwin.
Pryor's Concert Band and Orchestra also became heavily involved in
recording sessions for the rapidly expanding Victor Company. Pryor had
been right--the phonograph was well on its way to becoming a household
necessity, and soon most of his time was spent at the Victor studios in
Camden, N.J. It is said that Pryor conducted for more recordings than
any other man of his era, and the Victor catalogs from 1900s thru the
late 1920s confirm that over two-thousand five-hundred (2,500) separate
Pryor records were issued, including trombone solos and selections
performed by his Band and Orchestra. The repertoire included many
marches, novelties, selections from the classics, and an extraordinary
amount of syncopated dance music. The Pryor Concert Band music library
has been lost since the 1940s, but his collection of dance orchestra
scores--recently rediscovered--contains over three-hundred-fifty rags,
two-hundred two steps, one-hundred thirty one steps, and some one
hundred fifty early foxtrots. Many of these titles were recorded for
Victor under the baton of Arthur Pryor.
His Victor Talking Machine Company years were also the most fertile
period for Pryor the composer. Of his three-hundred original works, the
most famous were created during this time: Heart of America March
(1916), Triumph of Old Glory (1907), On Jersey Shore (1904), and the
ever popular Whistler and His Dog (1905). Through the medium of the
phonograph, Arthur Pryor eventually became so well known (and
financially secure) that he no longer needed to give live concerts.
This was truly a revolutionary achievement in the history of music:
from the commercial standpoint, the phonograph recording had become
more important than the live performance!
Arthur Pryor maintained this busy career right up until his retirement
in 1933. By then, the saxophone-dominated dance orchestras and jazz
combos had edged-out the gentler kind of music that he preferred. And
although he championed ragtime, Pryor strongly disliked the improvised
jazz that had grown from it. He called jazz the "parasite of music,"
and ventured that its popularity would eventually cause the lowering of
musical tastes in America.
http://www.ragtimemarkbirnbaum.com/arcticles/briefhistory/briefhistory1.htm
http://www.siue.edu/EDUCATION/joplin/RagHist.htm
But, Ragtime as we know it today, first blossomed in the late 1890s,
the creation of itinerant pianists--most of whom were black--and who
lived and traveled throughout the Mississippi Valley.
In regard to the origin of the music there are many theories. One view
contends that Ragtime syncopation first appeared in the classical works
of the American composer, Louis Moreau Gottschalk (1829-1869). Others
maintain that the music emerged from the minstrel show circuit, and
thus was originally a vocal form. Another opinion is that Ragtime
developed on the heels of the Cakewalk, and was primarily dance music.
As performers began to rag both melody and accompaniment, ragtime began
its transformation (or incorporation) into jazz. As classic ragtime was
meant to be played as written, these artists also moved toward greater
improvisation.
Jelly Roll Morton recognized the coherence of ragtime but gave it more
freedom, especially in the bass line. This resulted in what is known as
``stomp'' piano. Charles (Cow-Cow) Davenport, who pioneered the
Boogie-Woogie style, was trained in ragtime but recorded many blues
pieces. James P. Johnson was instrumental in moving ragtime toward jazz
and blues, creating Stride Piano. Other developments led to the
``trumpet-piano'' style of Earl Hines and Teddy Weatherford and to the
swing style of Duke Ellington.
1912 Mrs. William Stark (Carrie Bruggeman) composes They Gotta Quit
Kickin' My Dawg Around for Champ Clark's hopeful but ultimately
unsuccessful presidential campaign. An immediate hit, its popularity
collapses as Clark's campaign died at the Republican convention.
Still, he continued working, pushing the limits of ragtime by composing
a ragtime opera. Evidence suggests that this audacious work - A Guest
of Honor - recounted an event in 1901 that had polarized the nation:
President Theodore Roosevelt's invitation to black leader Booker T.
Washington for dinner at the White House. (Outraged critics complained
that the gesture symbolized an unacceptable social equality between the
white and black races.)
fishhead
I'd like to get a date on that quote...I looked and did not
find it....based on his description of jazz, it sounds like
Dixeland or ragtime..but if the quote were late enough in
his life it's *possible* he could have been talking about swing...
but...it wouldn't really fit the description IMHO...
When was that quote taken?
He most certainly wasn't talking about anything Be-bop.. :-/
fishhead
<snip>
> ...It will endure just as long as
> people hear it through their feet instead of their brains!"
> -John Philip Sousa
>
That line in this quote could be seen as ironic.
When was the quote given?
That would provide some good historical context.
You know? I didn't find it.
zoot...@gmail.com
for the famous Capitol Theatre in Manhattan; there, in 1919, he
conducted the premiere of a new one-step called Swanee--the first big
Bruce Morgen
There are no sousaphone
parts in Bach -- neither
the sousaphone nor the
valved brass tuba existed
back then. You played a
transcription of part of
the continuo.
>
>Which of the two has had the greatest lasting effect on Music? I don't think
>that the final answer is in yet.
I disagree. Sousa has
influenced band music and
vindicated the march as a
concert form. Bach has
set the standard for both
technical excellence in
composition/orchestration
and inspired innovation
within a very disciplined
and demanding stylistic
framework that has yet to
be met, let alone exceeded,
in all of western music for
over 250 years. No other
composer (or any serious
critic, for that matter),
including Sousa, has
succeeded in raising the
slightest credible doubt
about his unequaled mastery
of every aspect of
musicianship.
>I believe that Bach is probably ahead on
>points, but I think BOTH are great men.
Bach was unparalleled
genius, Sousa was no more
than one of many competent
professionals whose careers
straddled the nineteenth
and twentieth centuries --
imo his peers were Strauss,
Romberg, Herbert, Foster,
and Joplin, not Bach,
Mozart, or Beethoven.
>
>THAT is not what this is about though, as you know. it is JUST what you
>LEFTIES would like to turn it into, because you prize your high and mighty
>attitude towards music, and the repeated disparaging remarks about a
>distinguished musician/composer shows the lie to your high and mighty
>opinion of yourselves. You all think your better, and smarter than anyone
>else, yet your ranks are full of racists and bigots of all types (ed
>bloomer, musical bigot) and pro violence (pro terrorist) bullshit assholes.
Paul, the mirror's up --
that's exactly what *you*
have managed to turn it
into! I never typed a
single disparaging word
about Sousa, I repeatedly
gave the guy his due
props while putting his
accomplishments in a
sensible perspective
relative to arguably (and
imo) the best all-around
musician who ever played
or wrote a note!
>
>you guys talk big, but walk small.
>
Well-founded inferiority
complex duly noted.
>paul
>arizona
>
>
>> even care, or are you
>> chiming in just because
>> you see the controversy
>> as some sort of left vs.
>> right political issue?
>>
>
>
TD Madden
> TD Madden wrote:
>
>>Bobsyeruncle wrote:
>>
>>>Lord Valve wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lord Valve Speaketh:
>>>>
>>>
>>>(more crap about Sousa snipped)
>>>
>>>No matter how patriotic you are, Sousa does not amount to more than
>
> a
>
>>>pimple on Bach's ass. Sousa composed marches and Bach composed
>>>symphonies. Comparisons to Bach are not only unwarranted in Sousa's
>>>case, they are just plain idiotic. Music history resounds with
>
> Bach's
>
>>>name. Sousa's name may get a brief mention. If you are indeed
>>>classically trained, you already know this. Why not just admit
>
> that
>
>>>you made a mistake and get on with life. I think many would respect
>
> you
>
>>>for this.
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
>>
>>OR you could just STFU and let it drop already.
>
>
> FOAD, toady. Lardo doesn't seem to want to let it drop, does he? I
> don't see you telling him to STFU.
>
> Bob
>
Interesting that anyone not agreeing with you is a toady. Perhaps you
could just accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you.
Oh, and just STFU already.
fishhead
>
> It's of no consequence either way. Prove Sousa is Bachs equal or
> fuck off little man! : ) After all, you made the claim!
That wasn't the quote.
The quote can be proven quite easily if one knows the
meaning of the word 'compare'.
A 'comparison' is simply a study of the *similarities*
two or more entities share.
In the context of the post, which is clearly meant to provoke
thought, the meaning is clearly 'there are interesting, and
perhaps more, similarities than the reader might have considered
between these two (entities).
That given, I bet you have googled your ass off on Sousa for the
first time in your life.
Admit it. LV is *teaching* you something, and you are the willing
and eager student...you're *learning* about Sousa. Good for you.
TD Madden
> Fearless Freep wrote:
>
>>What I can't get is what these liberals think they buy themselves, by
>>shitting on Sousa... So they don't like him... Who cares? They don't
>
> like
>
>>Bush, either, and the nation told them what we think of THAT.
>>
>>WTF? Why all this hatred directed at a guy who wrote marches, however
>>learned and scholarly he may or may not have been? You'd think they'd
>
> have
>
>>bigger shit to boil their heads over than that.
>>
>>Hey, folks: BUSH WON! Stew over THAT, for crying out loud! There's
>
> going to
>
>>be new SCOTUS appointees! Probably *several*. Suffer and wail over
>
> THAT!
>
>>Does the fact that there are marches, and played by brass bands,
>
> really hurt
>
>>you THAT much?
>>
>>Freep
>>
>
> Freep, you're a retard. Tell Lardo to stop posting shit about Sousa.
> It will never convince anyone that Sousa is even in the same musical
> universe as Bach. It has nothing to do with you Retardicons. Not
> everything is about you Retardicons! Personally, I find Sousa's music
> rather one-dimensional and trite- patriotic tripe. That's not the
> point- Lardo's unfortunate suggestion that Sousa was comparable to Bach
> is. He hasn't been able to get over the thorough ass-kicking he got and
> as long as he makes these foolish attempts to prove his statement after
> the fact, he's gonna hear about it.
>
> Bob
>
Nice work convincing folks what an opinionated asswipe you
are..."retard", "retardicons:, et al. No ass-kicking is evident, only
the continual bleating of someone with an opinion not allowing others to
have theirs. You did say "Personally, I find Sousa's music..." That is
your belief and you are welcome to it. Others disagree....so WHAT?
TD Madden
> "Bobsyeruncle" <shoutsn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Lord Valve wrote:
>>
>>>Lord Valve Speaketh:
>>>
>>
>>(more crap about Sousa snipped)
>>
>>No matter how patriotic you are, Sousa does not amount to more than a
>>pimple on Bach's ass. Sousa composed marches and Bach composed
>>symphonies. Comparisons to Bach are not only unwarranted in Sousa's
>>case, they are just plain idiotic. Music history resounds with Bach's
>>name. Sousa's name may get a brief mention. If you are indeed
>>classically trained, you already know this. Why not just admit that
>>you made a mistake and get on with life. I think many would respect you
>>for this.
>>
>
> symphonies -- orchestral suites
> and concerti were as close as
> he got iirc. At least one of
> his sons did, though.
>
>
>
>
>
> ................................................................
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>
zoot...@gmail.com
Sousa was not as hugh (in the figurative sense) as Lord Valve says
that's all, in addition alot of Sousa's success is due to Arthur
Pryor. Lord Valve is wrong to say Sousa introduced ragtime to Europe,
Pryor did.
As to flags, what I hate is the made in china American flags I see
wavin. I'm all for the Americans making American flags
http://www.usstuff.com/flagsusa.htm
Not all Republicans a right wingnuts. Some are moderate, conservative,
decent, intelligent people.
fishhead
> shithead wrote:
>
>>Bobsonhisuncle cried into the grammophone:
>>
>>>Tell Lardo to stop posting shit about Sousa.
>>
>>Translation: "Somebody change me!...baby has poopie diaper."
>
> Blow it out your Sousaphone, toady.
>
You: "Wah make him stop"
Me: "....is there a Baboon diaper changer in the house?"
Blow it out your uncle, cracker. LOL.
Tony Hwang
> Elvis Kabong wrote:
>
>> fishbrain sound jealous.
>> obviously fishbrain can't play as good as Segovia.
>> therefore fishbrain think Segovia OT.
>> fishbrain think fishbrain a brainiac.
>> everyone know fishbrain is retard.
>>
>> "fishhead" <fish...@qwerty.earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:Kt4wd.653$yK....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>>> zoot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Andre Segov<snip>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lady, this is a guitar amp site.
>>>
>>> It's a well-known fact that Segovia said that the
>>> worst thing that ever happened to guitar was the
>>> invention of the electric guitar and amplifier.
>>>
>>> Please use 'OT' if you are going to talk about
>>> Segovia here.
>>>
>>> And try to get those cats under control.
>>>
>>> I think Rum-Tum-Tuggins is stealing Skylar's
>>> food when you aren't looking.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> Starting to sound like Tony.
Hi,
Me? I am a life time Sousaphone(bass) player. Now more into
euphonium in community band. I love Sousaphone and Sousa's
march( I marched a lot in my high school, college days).
I was told not long ago at reunion, my Sousaphone was so loud even three
guys playing in unison couldn't match my volume, LOL.
One guy who plays baritone sax told me I sounded like contra bass on stage.
Was even offered music scholarship when I graduated from high school.
I declined and took engineering major. That was 45 years ago.
Tony
zoot...@gmail.com
Bach? I said it was a matter of taste and that popularity was not a
good indicator of "best."
zoot...@gmail.com
Gaia's Avenger
http://members.aol.com/musicpad/mpppsousaquotes.html
(16 297 Q: "what are life's best gifts?"
"A horse, a dog, a gun and a girl- with music on the side," I replied.
(20: 358) "marches are, in a sense, my musical children. I think
Americans (and many other nationals for that matter) brighten at the
tempo of a stirring march because it appeals to their fighting
instincts. Like the beat of an African war drum, the march speaks to a
fundamental rhythm in the human organization an is answered. A march
stimulates every center of vitality, wakens the imagination and spurs
patriotic impulses which may have been dormant for years.
(20: 357) Some of the writers of jazz are not composers at all. "Jazz"
permits people of no talent whatever to write stuff and call it music.
There is no short cut to skill in composition.
+
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
Want to know what's really going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
always been authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material
available to advance understanding of political, human rights, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues. I
believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright
Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
Bruce Morgen
I didn't postulate a
connection per se (although
there is that circumstantial
one you've noted), and
there is a very fundamental
difference: Pryor, like
Sousa, despised jazz while
Gershwin embraced it and
became an American icon by
doing that so well. Pryor,
on the other hand and for
all his achievements, was
eventually eclipsed by it
and by artists under its
influence.
zoot...@gmail.com
threatening. Pryor embraced recording. Sousa called it canned music.
Gershwin embraced jazz. Old man>middle aged man>young man. Classic. Or
perhaps it was success being jealous of new success? or maybe just fear
of the new. Pryor was forgotten because no one carried his PR light
forward. Not any different than Marconi being known for radio when
Tessla deserved the credit. History does weird things. I can't think of
an example now, but some musicians were considered great in their time
and later forgotten, then re-remembered while others had to wait 200
years for fame. To say that Ragtime is forgotten is to ignore a
resurgence thanks to The Entertainer, Solace and The Easy Winners as
used by Marvin Hamlisch in the movie The Sting, and the movie "Pretty
Baby" which included Swipesy and several other rags. There was also a
film about Joplin himself with the lead role played by Billy Dee
Williams, not to mention the Broadway Play, Ragtime.
Gershwin - there were two ya know Ira and George. Geirge died early at
38.
George and Ira Gershwin
Earnings: $6 million
Occupations: Songwriter (George), Lyricist (Ira)
Dates of Death: July 11, 1937 (George); Aug. 17, 1983 (Ira)
Ages: 38 (George), 86 (Ira)
Causes: Cancer (George), Heart disease (Ira)
Survived by: two nephews, three nieces
Brothers born to Russian immigrants Morris and Rose Gershovitz became a
prodigious songwriting team. George composed the music, older br
Ira Gershwin was a joyous listener to the sounds of the modern world.
He noted in a diary: "Heard in a day: An elevator's purr, telephone's
ring, telephone's buzz, a baby's moans, a shout of delight, a screech
from a `flat wheel,' hoarse honks, a hoarse voice, a tinkle, a match
scratch on sandpaper, a deep resounding boom of dynamiting in the
impending subway, iron hooks on the gutter."
Ira Gershwin, the first songwriter to be awarded a Pulitzer Prize
(along with librettists George S. Kaufman and Morrie Ryskind for OF
THEE I SING (1931)), was born in New York City on December 6, 1896. For
his achievements he received many accolades including Academy Award
nominations for: "They Can't Take That Away From Me," written with his
younger brother George Gershwin, "Long Ago and Far Away," with music by
Jerome Kern and "The Man That Got Away," created with Harold Arlen.
The EVENING SUN published in May, 1917 his first song lyric, "You May
Throw All The Rice You Desire But Please, Friends, Throw No Shoes."
Marquis appreciated the joke lyric, printed it, and called the work
"perfect." 1918 marked the year of Ira Gershwin's first work to be sung
from a stage, as well as the beginning of a longtime collaboration with
his brother George when their "Real American Folk Song" was
interpolated into the Nora Bayes show, LADIES FIRST. Not wanting to
trade on the success of his already famous brother, Ira soon afterward
adopted the nom de plume of Arthur Francis, combining the names of his
youngest brother Arthur and sister Frances. Under this pen name Ira
Gershwin enjoyed his first major stage success, TWO LITTLE GIRLS IN
BLUE, written in 1921 with another Broadway newcomer, Vincent Youmans.
By 1924 the pseudonym was dropped. Thus it was as "the Gershwin
brothers" that George and Ira created the 1924 stage hit LADY, BE
GOOD!, their remarkable collaboration was to produce a dozen major
stage scores, including TIP TOES (1925), OH, KAY! (1926), STRIKE UP THE
BAND (1927 & 1930), GIRL CRAZY (1930), OF THEE I SING (1931), and the
American opera PORGY AND BESS (written in collaboration with DuBose
Heyward). In 1936, the brothers went to Hollywood for what became their
final collaboration, three motion picture scores: Shall We Dance
(1937), A Damsel In Distress (1937), and The Goldwyn Follies (1938).
Together the Gershwin brothers created dozens of "standards" many of
which have been re-discovered by a younger generation, delighted with
the "new" Gershwin musicals MY ONE AND ONLY (1983) and the 1992 Tony
Award winner for best musical, CRAZY FOR YOU.
As one of the great American songwriting teams of this century, Ira and
George were inducted into both the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1971,
and the Theatre Hall of Fame in 1983. (The Theatre Hall of Fame
coincidentally resides in the Gershwin Theatre in New York, which was
renamed in tribute to the brothers.) Other prestigious awards with
which George and Ira were honored include: the Congressional Gold Medal
from the United States Congress in 1985, and the Grammy National
Trustees Award in 1986. In 1976, Ira was honored with the National
Music Award.
Ira was also proud of his collaborations with other songwriters,
including his life long friend, Harold Arlen(LIFE BEGINS AT 8:40, A
STAR IS BORN, THE COUNTRY GIRL), Vernon Duke (ZIEGFELD FOLLIES OF
1936), Kurt Weill (LADY IN THE DARK, THE FIREBRAND OF FLORENCE, WHERE
DO WE GO FROM HERE?), Aaron Copland (NORTH STAR), Harry Warren (THE
BARKLEYS OF BROADWAY), Arthur Schwartz (PARK AVENUE), Burton Lane (GIVE
A GIRL A BREAK), and Jerome Kern (COVER GIRL). From COVER GIRL came
Ira's greatest song hit of any one year "Long Ago (And Far Away)."
In the late 1950's Ira began to work on what Alfred A. Knopf hoped
would be the lyricist's autobiography. What Ira actually created was a
unique compendium that included 104 of his lyrics along with
annotations, observations, and anecdotes. The critically acclaimed
Lyrics On Several Occasions was published in 1959 by Knopf. It is
arguably one of the best books ever written about lyric writing; over
the years it has been republished several times.
Elvis Kabong
"paul" <nospam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jkmwd.22$iH.16@fed1read02...
> THAT is not what this is about though, as you know. it is JUST what you
> LEFTIES would like to turn it into, because you prize your high and mighty
> attitude towards music, and the repeated disparaging remarks about a
> distinguished musician/composer shows the lie to your high and mighty
> opinion of yourselves. You all think your better, and smarter than anyone
> else, yet your ranks are full of racists and bigots of all types (ed
> bloomer, musical bigot) and pro violence (pro terrorist) bullshit
assholes.
>
> you guys talk big, but walk small.
>
> paul
> arizona
First, let me thank you for getting the pronunciation
of my name right with your use of a 3rd grade derivative.
And you are right, just as there are many tube snobs here,
I'm a musical snob, but not entirely. You see, it is you
conservative jagoff retardicons who pretend that you are
the "true" Americans by wrapping yourselves with the flag,
getting overly ethnocentric and xenophobic, i.e. bigoted
and bellicose about it along with an audacity to call your
fellow Americans who don't happen to buy into your
self-righteous, self-important crypto-fascist ideologies
"America-haters, unpatriotic, flag-burners, traitors and commies."
That makes you and your ilk political snobs. Therefore there's
enough snobbery to go around to blame everyone, so we
don't need you pretending you aren't a snob while whining
about others being snobs.
And look at your conservative heritage: anti-blues, anti-rhythm & blues,
anti-rock & roll and anti-rock. Recall the records burnings and bannings
from radio play. Yep, a bunch of straight-laced, fuddy duddy, nerdoes with
nazi crew-cuts and ties, closed or narrow-minded squares afraid of the
jungle beat - the black influence in the culture of music, afraid of
the teenagers digging the "rebellious youth" music of rock & roll
and rock and any counter-culture reps who are usually artists
of one type of medium or another. So I say go with Sousa - he's
more your speed. Just don't be stealing the cool things about rock
music to express your bigoted, bellicose, arrogant, greedy mentalities
- just use march music. It's obviously appropo, ain't it? And also
while you're at it, don't be butchering and bastardizing cool rock
anthems by adapting them into those simpering sappy march tunes.
It's really sucko and always in awfully bad taste.
Fearless Freep
it. You cried like a girl when it came out that you were too cowardly to
serve in Iraq. You claimed *I* was not good at this, and then you stole one
of my lines, because you couldn't do as well for yourself.
What you are, buddy-boy, is a guy that a man wouldn't even bother to slap,
except for the fact that you beg for it so damn much. What can I do, but
shrug, and backhand you... Here you go: BUSH WON. What do you think of that?
Having fun, are you? Good; have another: Bush will get 3, maybe 4 shots at
the Supreme Court. One will likely be Stevens. Another will almost certainly
be Ginsburg. Still laughing? How about this: The tax cuts will soon be made
permanent, and the law changed to require a supermajority to raise them.
I could go on, but I'll keep some powder dry for the next round. There's
plenty more. Have a ball.
Freep
"Bobsyeruncle" <shoutsn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1103217982.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Fearless Freep wrote:
> > "Bobsyeruncle" <shoutsn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1103169667....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Fearless Freep wrote:
> > > > What I can't get is what these liberals think they buy
> themselves, by
> > > > shitting on Sousa... So they don't like him... Who cares? They
> don't
> > > like
> > > > Bush, either, and the nation told them what we think of THAT.
> > > >
> > > > WTF? Why all this hatred directed at a guy who wrote marches,
> however
> > > > learned and scholarly he may or may not have been? You'd think
> they'd
> > > have
> > > > bigger shit to boil their heads over than that.
> > > >
> > > > Hey, folks: BUSH WON! Stew over THAT, for crying out loud!
> There's
> > > going to
> > > > be new SCOTUS appointees! Probably *several*. Suffer and wail
> over
> > > THAT!
> > > > Does the fact that there are marches, and played by brass bands,
> > > really hurt
> > > > you THAT much?
> > > >
> > > > Freep
> > > >
> > > Freep, you're a retard. Tell Lardo to stop posting shit about
> Sousa.
> > > It will never convince anyone that Sousa is even in the same
> musical
> > > universe as Bach. It has nothing to do with you Retardicons. Not
> > > everything is about you Retardicons! Personally, I find Sousa's
> music
> > > rather one-dimensional and trite- patriotic
> > ^^^^^^
> > You say *I*'m a retard, but you just put the lie to your argument
> that it's
> > not about [politics]. It is to *you*, and you're worried enough about
> how
> > much it shows, that you feel the need to officially (and laughably)
> deny it.
>
> WTF are you talking about? Is English your second language?
>
> > The awful truth is, you hate him the same way, and for the same
> reason, as
> > you'd hate, say, a guy who made American flags for a living --
> Because you
> > hate America and the people who love it. You say it has nothing to do
> with
> > Republicans; then why the need to complain about it being supposedly
> > patriotic?
>
> I hate no one. Not even Republicans. Patriotism is for idiots too
> afraid to question their leaders. I don't, however, hate patriots.
> They're kind of amusing.
> >
> > Hey, go ahead and write about it. It's does ME no harm.... And what
> *else*
> > do you have to do with your time, after all, *work for a living*?
>
> I guess that's why you took time out of your busy schedule to respond,
> eh Freep?
>
> Bob
>
JT
wrote:
[Sousa on Jazz]
>> I am positive, some day disappear- when the dancer tires of it-
>> unwept, unhonored and unsung. It is raging now, to be
>> sure, and has a considerable following, but it does not truly
>> represent America to the world; it does reflect a certain phase of the
>> world's life (not America's alone) since it employs primitive rhythms
>> which excite the basic human impulses. It will endure just as long as
>> people hear it through their feet instead of their brains!"
>> -John Philip Sousa
>And Sousa, as usual, was dead on target. The "jazz" of Sousa's
>heyday was known as "ragtime," and is today little more than a
>historical curiosity. As it evolved over the course of the 20th
>century, through the Charleston, jitterbugging, swing, jive and whatnot,
>it was always dance music.
LV, as always, is a beacon of wisdom. Thank God he's here to keep things
straight. I clearly remember when people stopped dancing to swing and
started marching around the room. Gleeful music it is, the march. One
hasn't heard music til witnessing Willy at the RollerRink.
LV's knowledge of jazz shines as well, and thankfully he is willing to
share it with the group.
> When Krupa shifted timekeeping
>duties from the kick drum to the ride cymbal,
Gene Krupa! Anyone who already doesn't know better could look at the
first paragraph about Kenny Clarke on http://www.Allmusic.com.
> Jazz ceased to
>be dance music in a matter of less than a decade; the slack
>was taken up by its bastard child Rock
The original post started as a slam against John Lennon (on the day he was
murdered, I believe) and degenerated into comparisons of Sousa to Bach and
Beethoven. Too pathetic to be funny, really.
> Jazz has
>become largely "cerebral" music, thanks in no small part to
>the likes of Coltrane, Gillespie et al in the Bebop movement,
Coltrane was a bebopper? If so, then ragtime was jazz.
Coltrane was active in the 50's and 60's, way past Charlie Parker's
heyday. Coltrane was hard-bop or avant-garde.
>I would also point out that Sousa introduced Ragtime to
>the Europeans,
Ragtime not evil any more?
> where it had a profound influence on
>Debussy, Ravel, Schoenberg, etc.
Sousa was single-handedly responsible for Schoenberg's 12-tone march
music. A fact that Schoenberg finally admitted on his death bed. Not to
mention Ravel's Pavanne for Tuba and Baton Twirlers.
>But you probably don't want to hear that.
No, please do blather on.
>Lord Valve
>Expert
Expert on something, perhaps. March music moreso than jazz, rock or
classical. If you really can march as well as you claim, then please
post video. Until then I insist that there are much better marchers in
this group. Supposedly, you don't even own a trombone.
JT
TM
>f**k buddy lefties
You bring oh so much to the party.
TM
Lord Valve
Cobblerette wrote:
> Mr. know it all.
Look, asswipe...
*You* know *squat* about music. You've never played any,
you can't tell a B-flat from an ashtray. You wouldn't know
an appogiatura or a mordant if someone stuck one in your ear.
Try sticking to what you know. Shoes, isn't it? Try alt.feet or
something.
Lord Valve
Expert
TM
Now you're talking music!
TM
>(Bach's music, by the way, as talented as he may have been, SUCKS imho).
That is probably the most ignorant remark I've read in a music related forum.
Any tendency to take you seriously has evaporated. Gone.
TM
>such ignorance was deafness.
Fascinating. How did this reward come about?
TM
>> or do you just play one
>> on Usenet? What the
>I am ALWAYS an asshole, but only to the folks who earn it through their own
hard efforts.
Blaming others for your behavior. NOT conservative at all. tsk-tsk.
TM
intelligent people.
Amen.
TM
>conservative jagoff retardicons who pretend that you are
>the "true" Americans by wrapping yourselves with the flag,
>getting overly ethnocentric and xenophobic, i.e. bigoted
>and bellicose about it along with an audacity to call your
>fellow Americans who don't happen to buy into your
>self-righteous, self-important crypto-fascist ideologies
>"America-haters, unpatriotic, flag-burners, traitors and commies."
Don't forget, "tennis shoe wearers."
Pete Kerezman
wrote:
>*You* know *squat* about music. You've never played any,
>you can't tell a B-flat from an ashtray. You wouldn't know
>an appogiatura or a mordant if someone stuck one in your ear.
>
>Try sticking to what you know. Shoes, isn't it? Try alt.feet or
>something.
"Been in the studio for six days and six nights.
Ain't hittin' the b-flat right.
Then I come home and you puts your cold feet on me!"
Albert King (paraphrased)
Texas Pete
howard...@hotmail.com
want to decimate your frailty) : )
Now, we all, ahem, know it's important to defend Lardy, (sock) but
you're just completely ignorant once again.
The claim stands, Sousa = Bach!!! ROFLMAO!
There is no way out of the ignorance of such a claim!
Again, Sousa is to music, as the etch a sketch is to art. End of
story!
Bach is global, Sousa is what 'Bandos' are subjected to. 'Bandos'
being the derogatory name we used in high school for the pathetic
losers in the schools marching band. :) Gawd, beating on them was
SOOO much fun! I saw one get thrown right off of a second story
walkway just for sport!
Were you one of them? The smell of acne cream preceded them wherever
they went! My senior class numbered nearly 1000, and yet, the 'bandos'
never seemed to show up at class reunions, etc. The few that did were
stuck in time, pimple faced virgins who could still squeak out 'Rule
Brittania', or any number of Sousa marches, when they weren't doing
their 55 hour work week as Assistant Manager at Burger King, that is!
Boy, that whole marching band experience was a REAL boost to their
resumes!
Lots of need for professional Tuba players, after all!
LV couldn't teach a dog to sit, shit for brains! He has taught you
(sock) how to kiss ass however! Keep on keepin on dude! You've quite
the gift for ass sucking!
cheers...
HJA
Sousa = Bach, OMFG I still can't stop laughing at the ignorance!
TM
Valve gets brainy.
Gaia's Avenger
http://members.aol.com/musicpad/mpppsousaquotes.html
Sousa sayeth:
(16 297 Q: "what are life's best gifts?"
"A horse, a dog, a gun and a girl- with music on the side," I replied.
"... at the tempo of a stirring march because it appeals to their
fighting instincts. Like the beat of an African war drum, ...."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20041217/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting
Conductor Kills Self Inside L.A. Cathedral
By LAURA WIDES, Associated Press Writer
GARDEN GROVE, Calif. - The veteran conductor of the Crystal
Cathedral's orchestra shot himself to death Friday at the landmark
church after a nine-hour standoff that began when he opened fire as
congregants prepared for a Christmas pageant.
Fifty-seven-year-old Johnnie Carl, the orchestra's conductor for 29
years, had barricaded himself in a bathroom and shot himself at about
2 a.m. as police officers tried to talk to him. Carl, who also had a
successful recording career, had grappled with depression, authorities
said.
He had fired about four shots in his office, and it did not appear he
was trying to hit anybody, police said. Children in a day care center
were rushed to safety.
The cathedral, a huge, sprawling structure of glass and steel not far
from Disneyland, is home to the Rev. Robert Schuller's international
Crystal Cathedral Ministries and claims a congregation of more than
10,000 members. The internationally televised "Hour of Power" is
broadcast from there.
The first shots were fired shortly before 5 p.m. Thursday, less than
two hours before the scheduled start of the cathedral's annual "Glory
of Christmas" holiday show, for which Carl had arranged the
prerecorded music. The two Thursday shows were canceled.
The 78-year-old Schuller, who was at home when the shooting happened,
came to the command post police set up near the cathedral and taped a
message for Carl. Police did not have the chance to play it or another
message from the Carl's wife, but they did play one from a friend who
had helped Carl in the past, police said.
Schuller spokesman Michael Nason said Carl had arranged or recorded
music for artists including Celine Dion, John Tesh, Michael Crawford
and the London Symphony. Among the records he contributed to were
Dion's "These are Special Times" and Tesh's "Live from Red Rocks."
Nason said Carl had talked to him in the past about feeling despondent
— "just a sense of personal pressures, job, and things around him,
dealing with people around him."
In a statement, Schuller hailed his friend as "a creative genius whose
beautiful arrangements and superb conducting set new levels of
excellence for sacred music. His music brought joy to the millions of
viewers around the world who watch the Crystal Cathedral's 'Hour of
Power' television program each week."
+
Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://johnnyasia.info
"I say play your own way. Don't play what the public wants. You play what
you want and let the public pick up on what you're doing even if it does take
them fifteen, twenty years." - Thelonious Monk
Gtski
<howard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103293822.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Keep trying Fishy! You're getting warmer. (not really, I just don't
> want to decimate your frailty) : )
>
> Now, we all, ahem, know it's important to defend Lardy, (sock) but
> you're just completely ignorant once again.
>
> The claim stands, Sousa = Bach!!! ROFLMAO!
>
> There is no way out of the ignorance of such a claim!
>
> Again, Sousa is to music, as the etch a sketch is to art. End of
> story!
>
> Bach is global, Sousa is what 'Bandos' are subjected to. 'Bandos'
> being the derogatory name we used in high school for
> the pathetic losers in the schools marching band. :) Gawd, beating on
> them was
> SOOO much fun! I saw one get thrown right off of a second story walkway
> just for sport!
Anyone who doubts Howard is a goon... the above clears it up.
>
> Were you one of them? The smell of acne cream preceded them wherever
> they went! My senior class numbered nearly 1000, and yet, the 'bandos'
> never seemed to show up at class reunions, etc. The few that did were
> stuck in time, pimple faced virgins who could still squeak out 'Rule
> Brittania', or any number of Sousa marches, when they weren't doing
> their 55 hour work week as Assistant Manager at Burger King, that is!
... and paying their taxes so you could be an over-paid public servant. No
wonder they 86'd so many of your
co-workers.
>
> Boy, that whole marching band experience was a REAL boost to their
> resumes! Lots of need for professional Tuba players, after all!
Lot's of need for your co-workers Howie... ? ? ?
>
>
> LV couldn't teach a dog to sit, shit for brains! He has taught you
> (sock) how to kiss ass however! Keep on keepin on dude! You've quite
> the gift for ass sucking!
We'll defer to you on this one Howie... you're ever the expert.
Ciao..! !
gtski
claudel
Having mistakenly assumed that anyone in AGA of any consequence is interested
in the ravings of a petty, abusive minor bureaucrat, some dweeb calling himself
howard...@hotmail.com <howard...@hotmail.com> raged and fumed:
< Howie's drooling snipped >
>Were you one of them? The smell of acne cream preceded them wherever
>they went! My senior class numbered nearly 1000, and yet, the 'bandos'
>never seemed to show up at class reunions, etc. The few that did were
>stuck in time, pimple faced virgins who could still squeak out 'Rule
>Brittania', or any number of Sousa marches, when they weren't doing
>their 55 hour work week as Assistant Manager at Burger King, that is!
>
>Boy, that whole marching band experience was a REAL boost to their
>resumes!
Someone flunk an audition somewhere, Howie?
>
>LV couldn't teach a dog to sit, shit for brains! He has taught you
>(sock) how to kiss ass however! Keep on keepin on dude! You've quite
>the gift for ass sucking!
Willie seems to have taught you to follow him around
with your nose up his ass hoping for a sweet fart, and
to yap and drool whenever the bell rings.
>cheers...
>HJA
>
>Sousa = Bach, OMFG I still can't stop laughing at my ignorance!
So, Audrey.
When are you gonna offer Branford a free Judo lesson.
Claude
Gtski
<zoot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103237957.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> what are you talking about?
>
> Sousa was not as hugh (in the figurative sense) as Lord Valve says
> that's all, in addition alot of Sousa's success is due to Arthur
> Pryor. Lord Valve is wrong to say Sousa introduced ragtime to Europe,
> Pryor did.
>
> As to flags, what I hate is the made in china American flags I see
> wavin. I'm all for the Americans making American flags
> http://www.usstuff.com/flagsusa.htm
>
> Not all Republicans a right wingnuts. Some are moderate, conservative,
> decent, intelligent people.
>
You'd might better check with Ed Blum on that... me thinks Blumby has
discerned otherwise.
Ed KaPlonk, using a rather articulated foil-hat design, has special insight
on all things
Republican.... ( I think there is nothing more apt to make Ed use huge,
run-on sentences than the
mention of anything Republican.)
gtski
Gtski
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:oUowd.507293$Pl.80987@pd7tw1no...
Sheesh..! ! Watch out Tony..! ! ! Howard Aubrey will be after you for
this..! ! ! :-)
He doesn't like school band members.... (yikes..! ! ) Howie has posted
that he used
to 'bully' them and enjoyed it. Now, he'll want to give you 'judo
lessons'.... ;-)
gtski
Bobsyeruncle
fishhead wrote:
> Bobsyeruncle wrote:
>
> > shithead wrote:
> >
> >>Bobsonhisuncle cried into the grammophone:
> >>
> >>>Tell Lardo to stop posting shit about Sousa.
> >>
> >
> > Blow it out your Sousaphone, toady.
> >
>
> You: "Wah make him stop"
>
> Me: "....is there a Baboon diaper changer in the house?"
>
> Blow it out your uncle, cracker. LOL.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....................
Bob
paul
"TM" <telem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041217030406...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> >did you not read all those posts by your
>>f**k buddy lefties
>
> You bring oh so much to the party.
thank you. i'll consider that "point made!"
paul
arizona
paul
<zoot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103229919....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://ares.homeip.net/~bwillcox/sirens/sounds/3T22%20Hi%20Lo.wav
> "Pull over immediately or we will shoot. This is the Thread Direction
> Police. You have made a left turn in a right turn only zone. Get off of
> your keyboard and put both hands on the yellow circles on the top of
> your monitor.
>
> We have checked you IP address, your license to post has expired and
> you are a registered Liberal.
>
> FREEZE, any movement on your part will be interpretted as a
> revolutionary act of aggression. We are in charge. Your only right it
> the right to remain silent. You may not defend yourself. You may not
> have an opinion, or posts any facts, or references. We have plonked
> you, and will proceed to block you from further postings. We will now
> take you to the decontamination zone where you will be terminated."
lol, you can take all the left turns you wish. just don't say I'M wrong cuz
i didn't follow you into the ditch.
paul
arizona
>
paul
<zoot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103240443.8...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> NO the question was is Sousa an equivalent or better musician than
> Bach? I said it was a matter of taste and that popularity was not a
> good indicator of "best."
if that WERE the question that started this off, then if you were RIGHT
about it being a matter of taste, then I would PERSONALLY put Sousa WAY
ahead of that long haired dork who wrote all that funeral music.
just personal taste, right?
paul
arizona
paul
no blame. i LIKE being an asshole to your kind. give the devil his due, my
grandpappy used to say.
paul
arizona
paul
"Elvis Kabong" <ampsc...@tuneland.com> wrote in message
news:OFrwd.5889$Z27...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "paul" <nospam...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:jkmwd.22$iH.16@fed1read02...
>
>> THAT is not what this is about though, as you know. it is JUST what you
>> LEFTIES would like to turn it into, because you prize your high and
>> mighty
>> attitude towards music, and the repeated disparaging remarks about a
>> distinguished musician/composer shows the lie to your high and mighty
>> opinion of yourselves. You all think your better, and smarter than anyone
>> else, yet your ranks are full of racists and bigots of all types (ed
>> bloomer, musical bigot) and pro violence (pro terrorist) bullshit
> assholes.
>>
>> you guys talk big, but walk small.
>>
>> paul
>> arizona
>
> First, let me thank you for getting the pronunciation
> of my name right with your use of a 3rd grade derivative.
your welcome. its more than you deserved, but it IS Christmas.
>
> And you are right, just as there are many tube snobs here,
> I'm a musical snob, but not entirely. You see, it is you
> conservative jagoff retardicons who pretend that you are
> the "true" Americans by wrapping yourselves with the flag,
> getting overly ethnocentric and xenophobic, i.e. bigoted
> and bellicose about it along with an audacity to call your
> fellow Americans who don't happen to buy into your
> self-righteous, self-important crypto-fascist ideologies
> "America-haters, unpatriotic, flag-burners, traitors and commies."
> That makes you and your ilk political snobs. Therefore there's
> enough snobbery to go around to blame everyone, so we
> don't need you pretending you aren't a snob while whining
> about others being snobs.
i AM a snob. I hate un-American pieces of lizzard shit.
>
> And look at your conservative heritage: anti-blues, anti-rhythm & blues,
> anti-rock & roll and anti-rock. Recall the records burnings and bannings
hm, i've been a musician since 4th grade. played rock and roll (prefferred
R&B) for years. I have played with with many old Blues musicians (and
several younger ones too). I guess maybe i just didn't know that i hated all
that music that i love? lol! whatever!
> from radio play. Yep, a bunch of straight-laced, fuddy duddy, nerdoes with
> nazi crew-cuts and ties, closed or narrow-minded squares afraid of the
> jungle beat - the black influence in the culture of music, afraid of
> the teenagers digging the "rebellious youth" music of rock & roll
> and rock and any counter-culture reps who are usually artists
> of one type of medium or another. So I say go with Sousa - he's
> more your speed. Just don't be stealing the cool things about rock
> music to express your bigoted, bellicose, arrogant, greedy mentalities
> - just use march music. It's obviously appropo, ain't it? And also
> while you're at it, don't be butchering and bastardizing cool rock
> anthems by adapting them into those simpering sappy march tunes.
> It's really sucko and always in awfully bad taste.
>
lol, you have a nice life there. youre kind of a strange one.
paul
arizona