Maven Peal: He's not forcing you to buy it!!
Roger Smith
he's not forcing anyone to buy his amp. he's made something
he thinks is good. he's put a price on it. if people think
its value for money like homself, then they will pay,
otherise they wont.
people keep saying "i cant afford it". well, he's not
pricing for everyone.
Its a bit like an artist doing an abstract painting. and
people go see it and they say "but i cant see a tree in it"
and the artist says "i wasn't painting a tree" and the
people go, "yeah, but i still cant see a tree. i dont like
it"
point is, few of us have heard it. how easy it is for some
poeple to look at the price alone, and slag this guy off in
a public newsgroup where he's trying to be honest and let
people know about his product. bad rep can really harm a new
company. you want to put him out of business before he's
even started?? he has a right to earn a living. no biggie
for you to flame him. and he has to spend the next 6 months
defending bad press from a half wit.
hes an amp maker, not a theif!!
a picture on the web site would be good though.
Rodge
BenjaminF
Well said. There was a similiar discussion recently concerning
a guy making Dumble clones on the NG, and of course, about
Dumble himself. I think it's just a bunch of belly aching
to complain about the price of esoteric gear. If there was
nothing better to be had at the pinnacle, then why even start
the climb?
Mark
The Dumble thread and this Maven Peal thing make me feel a lot of guitar
players are a bunch of really intolerant whiners.
--
x-no-archive: yes
SportShopW
>players are a bunch of really intolerant whiners.
I figured that out a LONG time before the Dumble thread and Maven Peal thing!
Miles O'Neal
>
> > There was a similiar discussion recently concerning
> > a guy making Dumble clones...
>
> players are a bunch of really intolerant whiners.
Well, that's true of the vocal people on the net,
regardless of what, or even if, they play...
-Miles
Mikey
Miles O'Neal wrote:
>
> Mark wrote:
> >
> > > There was a similiar discussion recently concerning
> > > a guy making Dumble clones...
> >
> > The Dumble thread and this Maven Peal thing make me feel a lot of guitar
> > players are a bunch of really intolerant whiners.
I don't necessarily agree that most guitar players are whiners. We all
have our opinions and most of us seem to be strong willed type people.
What I think has happened here is that a lot of us are just plain tired
of all this "vintage" bullshit, which sounds like a good excuse to
overcharge everyone for old equipment. The price of everything seems to
be skyrocketing upward. Everybody seems to be selling "vintage"
equipment, even if its only 10 years old or so, now it becomes "vintage
80's". Such bullshit!! Then, along comes Maven Peal with their $4,000.00
15 watt amp. C'mon, where is this shit going to end? This newsgroup is
alt.guitar.amps, not alt.rich.lawyers or alt.rich.doctors, etc... These
are working musicians in here, or starving beginners. Parading a
$4,000.00 amp in here I think is insulting. Yeah, Yeah, I know, "He's
not forching you to buy it!!". Well, no-one that I know will shell out
4K for a 15 watt amp, or any amp for that matter. I just bought a SF
Princeton Reverb for $300.00, sounds great. I'm sure that the Maven Peal
amp is a great amp, and I'm sure that they have used the best components
that they possibly could. But, I for one, do not need audiophile quality
gear. When you're playing in the clubs with the volumn up, the audience
doesn't care whether your amp is $400 or $4,000. Plus, what are ya gonna
do during the band breaks? I'll tell ya what you're gonna do, you're
gonna sit on the side of the stage while everyone else in the band is on
break, so you can keep your eye on that little $4,000 theft target. Now,
for a millionaire, the price of this amp would be a drop in the bucket,
but for the vast majority of players, this simply is wayyy outta line
price wise.
>
> Well, that's true of the vocal people on the net,
> regardless of what, or even if, they play...
Well, as you can see, I have my opinions, I tend to be vocal on items
that I'm passionate about, and I do play (31 years worth).
>
> -Miles
Kent Pearson
>of all this "vintage" bullshit, which sounds like a good excuse to
>overcharge everyone for old equipment. The price of everything seems to
>be skyrocketing upward. Everybody seems to be selling "vintage"
>equipment, even if its only 10 years old or so, now it becomes "vintage
>80's". Such bullshit!! Then, along comes Maven Peal with their $4,000.00
>15 watt amp. C'mon, where is this shit going to end?
It's not gonna end Mikey, you know why? Because as long as there continues to
be a sucker born every minute, there also are born those who are more than
happy to separate them from their hard earned money and the prices will
continue to rise. You can thank the "collectors", largely, for wanting to
snatch up anything that's "old" - whether it's good or not. Let me give you an
example. I was in a store today that had two mid-'70s Strats. They were
priced at $1,200. and $1,600. Now these guitars are generally regarded as some
of the absolute WORST guitars that Fender ever put out. I had four of them
during that time, always looking for a good one, and I came to the conclusion
they were ALL bones. No tone, no sustain, just shit. A lot of Mexican and ALL
of todays Japanese Strats blow those "guitars" away for a fraction of the cost.
So I said, "Hey man, what's the deal? A '70's Strat for $1,600.???" You know
what the reply was? "Hey man, that's 20 years old!" know what I said? It was
a piece of shit 20 years ago, it's still a piece of shit today, and it'll
ALWAYS be a piece of shit." $1,600. for a useless guitar, just because it's
old? I don't think so pal, not this guy. But guess what... how many suckers
do you think would hand over their wallets without blinking? Those people are
the reason you need a telescope to see a lot of the prices, plain and simple.
If people would just say "Uh uh, it ain't gonna happen", it wouldn't. But that
ain't gonna happen either, so buy wisely now, so that if it comes time to part
with it you can get your money back and then some. However, I don't see that
happening with a $4,000.00 15-watt amp that wouldn't even be loud enough for
most guys to keep up with the drummer, do you? (Hey, what do you think the 50
or 100 watt version would go for?? Double? More?)
- Kent Pearson
"Fall mountains, just don't fall on me" (Jimi Hendrix - If 6 Was 9)
rcjarr...@my-deja.com
going for the mass market. He is trying to fit into an exclusive niche
that though there may be some lawyers, is probably made up of more
studios and very successful musicians.
The one thing I can't stand the most is a bunch of short sighted
nimrods who bitch about the fact that his amp is only 15 watts. Maybe
you don't know your electronics, or even basic amplifier theory for
that matter, but wattage is no measure of quality. For example, a
carnked 100 watt amp is typically only 3 decibels louder than a cranked
50 watt amp. Along the same lines, a 30 watt or a 15 watt amp are also
relatively loud.
The thing that makes 15 watt amps so great is that they can bring in
more output tube distortion. And guess what... EL84's sound a whole
lot nicer than distorting 12ax7's. I have an older vox with two 10
inch speakers and 2 el84 tubes in the power section. It is almost as
loud as my twin reverb. My guess is that the additional 70 watts only
make it a hair louder, but they do make it cleaner.
15 watt amps are great. There are some great 15 watt amps being made
today by DR Z, TopHat, Vox, Cage, etc. For discriminating tastes,
lower wattage amps typicaly have better tone.
It is a statement of ignorance to complain that an expensive amp is
lower in wattage. Especially since this type of amp is probably
designed for studio use where a lower powered high quality amp really
pays off.
Just because another amp has more wattage, does not make it a better
amp. As far as I'm concerned, A VOX AC30 will blow the doors off of
any crappy 150 watt mesa-boogie amp anyday.
You silly sad whiny people. He has made a nice product, and is sharing
it with the world.
In other walks of life, do you behave this way? Do you people moan and
complain about Ferrarris or other nice cars? My guess is you probably
look at a Ferrarri and say "wow... that's nice." You can respect the
craftsmanship and appreciate the beauty of the vehicle. I doubt you
post messages on boards saying "Ferrarri's are for suckers! give me my
Honda anyday over those overpriced Italian turds!"
Get a life. Be happy for the guy. Appreciate what he created and be a
gentleman about it. There is way to much misguided negativism on this
board.
If you don't like it, dont buy it. You are probably not his intended
audience anyway.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Miles O'Neal
>
> Miles O'Neal wrote:
> >
...
> > > The Dumble thread and this Maven Peal thing make me feel a lot of guitar
> > > players are a bunch of really intolerant whiners.
Nope, that wasn't me.
> > Well, that's true of the vocal people on the net,
> > regardless of what, or even if, they play...
>
> Well, as you can see, I have my opinions, I tend to be vocal on items
> that I'm passionate about, and I do play (31 years worth).
OK, that quote was me, and I didn't express it well.
My point was that there are a lot of whiners on the net,
regardless of whether they play guitar.
There are plenty of non-whiners, too.
-Miles
David "Doc" Gordon
i'm not a big fan of the people making the Maven Peal (i've done business
with them, and they're not my kind of people -- but that's irrelevant),
and the prototype i have sitting next to me (actually the "Sag Circuit"
grafted to a execrable Crate unit, which i've run a few dozen test hours
on) is not in any way the finished product they advertise -- nor am i
convinced they have completed any units yet (if it were me, i would
probably only build to order anyway, given the likely sales volume).....
....that having been said, more power to them for having the balls to come
up with a new product! if it doesn't live up to the hype, it will be
pretty obvious to all pretty soon. if it does, then it will have a
market....just like every other pricey yuppie contrivance ever made! a
jeep and a land rover will reach the top of the hill at the same time;
when you make the choice it comes down to one's taste. i do think that
there needs to be a way of test-driving them; $4k for an amp
"sound-unheard" is a bit of a stretch from this set of eyeballs.
peace
doc
Mikey
will be the best amp ever built, but they don't even have a picture on
the website, at least not the last time that I looked. A few sound clips
would be nice, and a chance to try it also. Asking 4K for an amp that we
can't see or hear takes balls.
Mikey
not, when are you buying yours? I would like to hear your review of this
amp. I like lower wattage amps myself, I just bought a SF Princeton
Reverb for $300.00 that sounds great to my ears. And a lot of other
guitarists like Princeton Reverbs also. Now, I wonder what I can do with
the $3,200 that I just saved?
leo...@home.com
I'd have to agree - there is the free market system, and you can ask
any price you want - but no amp is worth $4000 - no way, jose!!
Best transformer - $200 ?
chassis made by engineer at 40$ an hour - 120$
pile of resistors - $20
pile of caps - 50$
pots - $50
tubes - 40$
various junk - $100
built by pretty Japanese ladies - $100
wood speaker box - $100
speaker - $100
are we at $1000 yet?
must be Canadian prices.....
>On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:43:34 GMT, Mikey <recrui...@home.com> wrote:
>
>
>Miles O'Neal wrote:
>>
>> Mark wrote:
>> >
>> > > There was a similiar discussion recently concerning
>> > > a guy making Dumble clones...
>> >
>> > The Dumble thread and this Maven Peal thing make me feel a lot of guitar
>> > players are a bunch of really intolerant whiners.
>
>I don't necessarily agree that most guitar players are whiners. We all
>have our opinions and most of us seem to be strong willed type people.
>What I think has happened here is that a lot of us are just plain tired
>of all this "vintage" bullshit, which sounds like a good excuse to
>overcharge everyone for old equipment. The price of everything seems to
>be skyrocketing upward. Everybody seems to be selling "vintage"
>equipment, even if its only 10 years old or so, now it becomes "vintage
>80's". Such bullshit!! Then, along comes Maven Peal with their $4,000.00
>15 watt amp. C'mon, where is this shit going to end? This newsgroup is
>alt.guitar.amps, not alt.rich.lawyers or alt.rich.doctors, etc... These
>are working musicians in here, or starving beginners. Parading a
>$4,000.00 amp in here I think is insulting. Yeah, Yeah, I know, "He's
>not forching you to buy it!!". Well, no-one that I know will shell out
>4K for a 15 watt amp, or any amp for that matter. I just bought a SF
>Princeton Reverb for $300.00, sounds great. I'm sure that the Maven Peal
>amp is a great amp, and I'm sure that they have used the best components
>that they possibly could. But, I for one, do not need audiophile quality
>gear. When you're playing in the clubs with the volumn up, the audience
>doesn't care whether your amp is $400 or $4,000. Plus, what are ya gonna
>do during the band breaks? I'll tell ya what you're gonna do, you're
>gonna sit on the side of the stage while everyone else in the band is on
>break, so you can keep your eye on that little $4,000 theft target. Now,
>for a millionaire, the price of this amp would be a drop in the bucket,
>but for the vast majority of players, this simply is wayyy outta line
>price wise.
>
>
>>
>> Well, that's true of the vocal people on the net,
>> regardless of what, or even if, they play...
>
>Well, as you can see, I have my opinions, I tend to be vocal on items
>that I'm passionate about, and I do play (31 years worth).
>>
>> -Miles
Mikey
the middle getting a slice of the pie, so the Maven Peal guy is getting
the full load.
Rich Koerner
Though I understand, and may agree, there is another point of view too.
I Don't know if this is proper to do in the NG, but I want to take a
piece of one of my rants from another thread and place it here for a
reference.
==============================================================================
<quote>
It's time for a new breed to start making new amps and instruments with
the new sounds for the next new pioneer artist for 2000. All I hear,
in spite of all the Music Industry BS, is the same old tired recycled
sounds!!!!!
Just sit in GC or Sam Ash for a Saturday afternoon. That's all you will
hear, and know I'm not all wrong about this!!!
The reason why, look what there is for an amp selection. Look what
there is for a guitar selection. Look what there is for a bass
selection. Look what sounds are being dialed it with those same knob
tone settings by the players!!!!!! It SUX!!!!!
Time for Today's Rock Musician to Wake Up and See, they have No
Clothes!!!!
They are all doing the same thing as the next guy!!!!!!!!!!!
They are Not Doing What Has Not Been Done
Before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Tools Are Not There!!!! The Talent is Not There!!!
===============================================================================
OK, it is a *fact* that there has been NOTHING NEW to hit the Music
store that can do what has not been done before by any of the popular
manufacturers. They all have a model that covers the model of the
other!!!!! And they all do the same BS sounds.
Not one of them is really a STAND ALONE, ONE OF A KIND AMP!!!!!
For example, An amp that when is first heard on a newly released CD, can
be identified on the attack of the first note.
There was a time were that actually happened in the past when each
manufacturer had their own thing, and really didn't look to copy each
others models.
Look, I was lucky to be born at the time I was to have lived through all
the Rock Music sounds as they were growing from their birth. I'm bored
to SHIT with what I hear
today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The same over-drive.
The same distortion.
The same tone.
The same compression.
Just work for a week at GC or Sam Ash.
You'll go CRAZY from it.
Now the reason the vintage stuff is what it is, is because it comes from
a time when a Super Reverb's closest relative was an Ampeg VT-40.
Did they sound alike? NO!!!!
Did Ampeg go and design it to sound like a Super Reverb? No!!!!
Did Ampeg design it to go after the Super Reverb Market? No!!!!
THat VT-40 did it's own thing, and the Super Reverb did its own.
The difference was so GREAT, you could drive a truck though it!!!!
Like wise the Sunn, Acoustic, Kustom, Musicman, Guild, etc... with
their 4-10" models.
Not so today. The differences are so small that it is mostly measured
in dollars and cents, as evidenced here in most of the recommendations
given here in the NG!!
Not one of the Major Manufacturers have made a uniquely different
sounding Amp or Guitar where you can say it's a NEW SOUND!!! CASE
CLOSED!!!
Now, in light of this situation, I will praise any person with the
vision for something new, and the guts to buck the establishment and
break out with something they believe in that will crack open this trap
boring BS sounds that is with us today.
Since the success of the Spin Doctors and the guitar sounds on Eric
Schenkman with the Hourglass amp, and the modified Marshalls, I can't
count the times I have been asked why I don't but the Hourglass out on
the market.
The answer is very simple. MONEY!!!!! Critics!!!!!!!! and
PIRATES!!!!!!!!
The manufacturing Engineering and start up costs are extremely high here
in NJ.
Well, as for the critics, just follow this thread.
As for the Pirates, if it hits, the copy cats will kill me from off
shores.
So, that's why I just do the Custom Work, and life is a lot Stress
Free!!!
However, I'm open to investors who would support me in such an
adventure!!!
I have to take my hat off to people like David, and the others who we
don't know about for taking the risks that the critics would never.
Like a sign over my desk says:
There are three kinds of people.
Those who MAKE things happen,
those who WATCH things happen,
and those who WONDER what happened.
I never met a critic who wasn't in the second group.
Regards,
Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com
Ned Carlson
>
> I'd have to agree - there is the free market system, and you can ask
> any price you want - but no amp is worth $4000 - no way, jose!!
>
> Best transformer - $200 ?
> chassis made by engineer at 40$ an hour - 120$
> pile of resistors - $20
> pile of caps - 50$
> pots - $50
> tubes - 40$
> various junk - $100
> built by pretty Japanese ladies - $100
Accutronics reverb tanks used to have labels indicating that they
were built by "beautiful girls in Milton, Wisconsin".
And the tanks sell for about $25. Are you implying that
pretty Japanese ladies are worth 4X beautiful girls from Wisconsin?
--
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
2225 W Roscoe Chicago, IL, 60618 USA
ph 773-871-7459 fax 773-871-7938
12:30 to 8 PM CT, (1830-0200 UTC) 12:30-5 Sat, Closed Wed & Sun
Magnequest Transformers stocked for Dynaco & Sunn!
Order online at:
http://www.triodeel.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant/merchant.mv+
Jonathan Krogh
Ned Carlson wrote in message <382A96D5...@triodeel.com>...
>leo...@home.com wrote:
>>
>> I'd have to agree - there is the free market system, and you can ask
>> any price you want - but no amp is worth $4000 - no way, jose!!
>>
>> Best transformer - $200 ?
>> chassis made by engineer at 40$ an hour - 120$
>> pile of resistors - $20
>> pile of caps - 50$
>> pots - $50
>> tubes - 40$
>> various junk - $100
>> built by pretty Japanese ladies - $100
>
>Accutronics reverb tanks used to have labels indicating that they
>were built by "beautiful girls in Milton, Wisconsin".
>And the tanks sell for about $25. Are you implying that
>pretty Japanese ladies are worth 4X beautiful girls from Wisconsin?
>
>--
>Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
Yeah, what the hell, and what if he trained a couple Supermodels to do the
assembly, would be a lot higher.
And real wanker electrolytics go way higher than $50 per amp, oh and throw
in the paper in oil signal caps at $15-20 a pop.
leo...@home.com
>Accutronics reverb tanks used to have labels indicating that they
>were built by "beautiful girls in Milton, Wisconsin".
>And the tanks sell for about $25. Are you implying that
>pretty Japanese ladies are worth 4X beautiful girls from Wisconsin?
No, not really - but they say the best stuff comes from Japan right?
Of course it takes longer to make an amp than a reverb box, I imagine.
I had a few of those at one time but they were ripped off.
>Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
Mikey
as I have been following your threads for some time. I do have to give
Maven Peal a lot of credit for coming out with something new. Lord
knows, like you said, we are ready for some new tones, etc... And I
don't want to come off like I'm a critic or that I'm a complainer. I'm
just pissed off in general at the way the instrument market has gone and
is going. I mean, look around, everybody has to mention "vintage" in
their ads, everybody is selling a "vintage" piece. I even read of review
of a guitar and the owner says "of course, I'll have the frets shaved
down to vintage specs". What the hell is he talking about? Sounds to me
like he has no idea what type of frets or size he really wants, he's
just blindly following the "vintage" craze. If you like thin frets, get
thin frets, if you like jumbo, get jumbo, but shaving your frets down to
vintage specs is just plain ridiculous to me. Maybe I'm being too vocal
here, maybe I'm venting, I dunno. I know that a lot of other players
feel as I do, and feel the the market is just getting crazy. A lot of
people are being ripped off and brainwashed to think that they have to
have "vintage" gear. Did Hendrix have vintage gear 30 years ago? Nope,
his gear was a few years old or so. People listen to Hendrix today and
think that they need to buy a 30 year old guitar to sound great. But his
guitar probably was only a few years old when he was playing it. It
sounds great because it's Hendrix. He had good equipment, but the talent
was his.
I just bought a mid-70's SF Princeton Reverb. I didn't buy it because it
was "vintage". I bought it because I love the tones coming outta the
amp. I got the amp for $300.00, which I think is a good price for a
point-to-point handwired amp. I like the fact that's its handwired, from
a servicing and minor mod standpoint. But I didn't have to pay 4K for a
good tone. Really now, $4,000 for a 15 watt amp? What is in the amp that
justifies that price? Are components coated in gold? Are there diamonds,
rubies, or some precious stones in there for some reason? Is there
titanium anything in there? Does Maven Peal have a 1/2 million dollar
machine that they use to make these that they need to recoup their
investment on? Or, does the amp cost them $500.00 to make, and they just
figure that they need a $3,500.00 profit? Apparently, there's no dealer
involved that I can tell, which then eliminates the middleman markup.
So, Maven Peal must be getting it all. But I checked their website
because I heard about the sag circuit and I was excited to see this
thing. But there's no picture's of the amps on there, no sound clips,
nothing. So, am I to assume, that a rational, intellectual person, would
hear about this great amp, not get to see it, not get to hear it, but
would just write out a check for 4 grand, sight and sound unseen? If
that's the case, then the market is even crazier than I thought. I know
there's a lot of people out there that's tired of the prices just going
through the roof. I seem to be one of the only ones that care to speak
up about it. So, who's gonna get to buy a Maven Peal? Not anyone that I
know. Maybe recording artists, maybe doctors and lawyers and record
producers. But, as usual, the average guy is left out in the cold. Great
idea, great equipment, just way outta reach for the vast majority. What
a shame that is.
QualityAna
>Does Maven Peal have a 1/2 million dollar
>machine that they use to make these that they need to recoup their
>investment on?
There perhaps could be before he would be able to make these amps affordable to
the average guitarist.
OTOH, if there was a large sum wisely invested some other way maybe he could
increase the *volume* and reduce costs while getting them competitively into
music stores everywhere. Well I guess 1/2 $Mil wouldn't be quite enough for
that . . .
Too bad the financial analysis by his bank returned inadequate profitability to
qualify him for a loan on this project.
Also, established amp companies may spend that much and result in less
technical progress, their budget for new circuits is likely lower, and when the
allocation is spent then they will likely release whatever *new* designs they
have to the tone-hungry masses regardless if innovative design goals were met
at all. They will sell anyway with their established market position.
This original Maven Peale amp can not be expected to be commonly available, how
can the builder single-handedly supply that many units to begin with? Either
he will be successful enough to go beyond personal hand assembly by the
inventor, or he will reach a point where it is more sensible to discontinue the
issue altogether. Tone is not the crux of the biscuit here, more like good
fortune or lack of it. Some passion has to be involved though, if I was an
engineer at IBM and overtime was available I would have to think twice about
spending weekends building amps if I could just show up for bonus time at my
regular job and earn decent money without risk or cash expenditure that might
not be recovered.
If his design becomes quite popular, it might then be good to own an original
Zeeta like he is offering now, would it compare to an authentic example of one
of Leo Fender's first few personally handmade amps? Or if he never produces
many units they will truly be rare, if the tone is there how willing do you
think someone who can afford one now would like to part with theirs then? This
is where tone is key. He has apparently made no compromises, in his opinion,
and only needs to appeal to those who might agree with him at this point.
These are not necessarily the people PTBarnum had in mind . . .
Even if his design is ripped off by a big company that produces an equal
quality amp for cheaper price, that will only recognize and legitimize his
contribution to music electronics. There would then be extreme mojo attached
to the original hand-made *real thing* even if there was no difference in tone.
With widespread familiarity it seems that it would easily gain the interest of
those who routinely write $4000 checks for far stupider stuff.
If you already had a nice $1000 computer and a nice $1000 amp, and you had an
extra $4000 laying around would you even want to get a more expnsive type of
either one? Somebody somewhere is bound to be able to get more satisfaction
from the ultimate amp, others might prefer the ultimate computer, would you
really even expect the ultimate anyway? $4000 doesn't buy what it used to :-(
There is bound to be something even better, and it might be even MORE expensive
. . .
Best Regards,
MBSetzer
*People are strange* - - - JMorrison
Rich Koerner
Mikey wrote:
>
> You made some good points Rich. I have a lot of respect for your opinion
> as I have been following your threads for some time.
You honor me sir, Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I do have to give
> Maven Peal a lot of credit for coming out with something new. Lord
> knows, like you said, we are ready for some new tones, etc... And I
> don't want to come off like I'm a critic or that I'm a complainer. I'm
> just pissed off in general at the way the instrument market has gone and
> is going. I mean, look around, everybody has to mention "vintage" in
> their ads, everybody is selling a "vintage" piece. I even read of review
> of a guitar and the owner says "of course, I'll have the frets shaved
> down to vintage specs". What the hell is he talking about? Sounds to me
> like he has no idea what type of frets or size he really wants, he's
> just blindly following the "vintage" craze. If you like thin frets, get
> thin frets, if you like jumbo, get jumbo, but shaving your frets down to
> vintage specs is just plain ridiculous to me. Maybe I'm being too vocal
> here, maybe I'm venting, I dunno.
Hey, I do the same thing here too!! It's ok, after I have a few more
treatments, you can visit me up at the FOH Rest & Rehabilitation Home
for those Burned Out on Musician's BS & Idiocy for the Same Old
TONE!!!! It will drive the best of us crazy!!!
BTW, who said this job was going to be easy? You're a young guy yet.
Get a grip!!! :)
The Best is yet to come. So rest up!
Wait, to you see what you will have to deal with,
next year in the year 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
> I know that a lot of other players
> feel as I do, and feel the the market is just getting crazy. A lot of
> people are being ripped off and brainwashed to think that they have to
> have "vintage" gear.
I think most of us are on the same page there....
> Did Hendrix have vintage gear 30 years ago? Nope,
> his gear was a few years old or so.
LOL.... Like a few hours old out of Manny's too....
> People listen to Hendrix today and
> think that they need to buy a 30 year old guitar to sound great. But his
> guitar probably was only a few years old when he was playing it. It
> sounds great because it's Hendrix. He had good equipment, but the talent
> was his.
Well, the only thing in the store you could get that would get you there
is the 62 RI strat, a cry baby, the speaker cabinets with some vintage
30's, and the RI Rodger Mayer pedals which I think are sold in some of
the stores..
You will still need an old fuzz face, univibe, and those killer old
Marshall Heads they don't make anything close to any more!!!!!
Damn!
> I just bought a mid-70's SF Princeton Reverb. I didn't buy it because it
> was "vintage". I bought it because I love the tones coming outta the
> amp. I got the amp for $300.00, which I think is a good price for a
> point-to-point handwired amp. I like the fact that's its handwired, from
> a servicing and minor mod standpoint. But I didn't have to pay 4K for a
> good tone.
And that is a the choice, among many of the choices we will all make in
life.
Remember:
As the fish looking at the worm, has a choice.
He has to choose to Bite, or pass!!!!!
Who ever said life was fair.... :(
> Really now, $4,000 for a 15 watt amp?
That would seem fair to an audiophile I would guess.
> What is in the amp that
> justifies that price? Are components coated in gold? Are there diamonds,
> rubies, or some precious stones in there for some reason? Is there
> titanium anything in there? Does Maven Peal have a 1/2 million dollar
> machine that they use to make these that they need to recoup their
> investment on? Or, does the amp cost them $500.00 to make, and they just
> figure that they need a $3,500.00 profit? Apparently, there's no dealer
> involved that I can tell, which then eliminates the middleman markup.
> So, Maven Peal must be getting it all.
Start up manufacture ring engineering, running, and overhead costs vary
from state to state. NJ is through the roof!!!! Thanks to Governor
Florio.
He, and his bunch killed industry in this state!!! It has never come
back. You can call New Jersey, THE TAX STATE!!!!!!!! The cost of
living and doing business in NJ Sucks Big Time!!!!!
For Example:
A pack of smokes is $3.50. $35.00 a carton.
Just liability car insurance on my 82 Bronco is $1400.00 with no fire,
theft, or collision. And that's with a clean driving record.
I don't want to mention the taxes on my home. I think you can get the
picture.
In the south and the mid west things are cheaper. There is also a lot
of legal and corporate expenses too that have to be figured into the
equation.
Without being David's accountant, there is no way that you, or I could
pass judgment.
> But I checked their website
> because I heard about the sag circuit and I was excited to see this
> thing. But there's no picture's of the amps on there, no sound clips,
> nothing. So, am I to assume, that a rational, intellectual person, would
> hear about this great amp, not get to see it, not get to hear it, but
> would just write out a check for 4 grand, sight and sound unseen?
I know that I would not, and would expect that others would not also.
But then there are those of means who may.
> If
> that's the case, then the market is even crazier than I thought. I know
> there's a lot of people out there that's tired of the prices just going
> through the roof. I seem to be one of the only ones that care to speak
> up about it. So, who's gonna get to buy a Maven Peal? Not anyone that I
> know. Maybe recording artists, maybe doctors and lawyers and record
> producers. But, as usual, the average guy is left out in the cold. Great
> idea, great equipment, just way outta reach for the vast majority. What
> a shame that is.
It may be that this is all not written in stone. All things are subject
to change. May be this is just a projection based on figures that could
change, and change the whole out come for the better. It's a wait and
see what happens sort of thing till new information comes forth. Be it
here, or on David's web site.
I have made my choice on this matter. That is to keep an open mind and
wait to see what happens next. I'm sure that David has been paying
attention here, and is aware of the feelings of those in the NG who have
voiced them, both pro and con.
In any case, it's his ball game. You and I have to respect that.
Miles O'Neal
> No, not really - but they say the best stuff comes from Japan right?
> Of course it takes longer to make an amp than a reverb box, I imagine.
>
> I had a few of those at one time but they were ripped off.
A few what? Amps? Reverbs? Beautiful Japanese ladies?
Hmmm. SLave traders, I bet...
Miles O'Neal
You also made some gtood points, up until here...
>... Really now, $4,000 for a 15 watt amp? What is in the amp that
> justifies that price? Are components coated in gold? Are there diamonds,
> rubies, or some precious stones in there for some reason? Is there
> titanium anything in there?
I don't have a copy of my previous post handy, but
I *did* cover the expenses. You can't make even a
halfway decent 5 watt amp and sell it for a reasonable
profit for $200. A *top notch* 15 watt amp without
getting into any really new ground will have to sell
for between $500 and $1,000 if you are building most
of it by hand, or having people do very limited production
runs for the parts you can't or don't want to do. And
believe me, it will end up being closer to $1,000 than
to $500.
On top of this, Mr. Zimmerman has a huge amount of time
and money invested in his research and patent. Why
should he take a huge loss on that? (If any of the big
players had licensed his technology, that cost per amp
would have been *much* lower.) So he not only has
bills to pay, he has debts (whether to creditors or his
retirement account) to pay off.
Then, if this amp will really mimic the sounds of several
other amps, there's a ton more work to do in development,
and some additional direct cost.
The small outfit doesn't have economies of scale
going for it, but makes up for this, hopefulliy, in
quality. But that quality comes only through a greater
investment of time - which also has to be paid for.
The better vintage amps often go for more than $1,000
each - and each of them wil only do 1/3 to 1/4 what
this amp will allegedly do. It's smaller, lighter,
quieter (big plus in recording), and probably sounds
a lot better in smaller environments.
If the amp does all we've been promised, it's probably
worthe the money to those with the money to buy it.
An awful lot of people freak out at the idea of a
$15,000 motorcycle. But I've never heard of a good rider
who's been on a nice Bimota or thoroughly restored
Vincent Black Shadow who didn't start looking for a
way to buy one. They don't all do it, but they sure
think about it, and everything else pales at least
a little bit afterwards.
Miles O'Neal
> I have made my choice on this matter. That is to keep an open mind and
> wait to see what happens next.
??? Open mind? Wait and see? But what of knee-jerk
reactions, having your buttons pressed, and
knowing everything? What kind of weirdo are you?
8^)
DBrophy479
>> justifies that price? Are components coated in gold? Are there diamonds,
>> rubies, or some precious stones in there for some reason? Is there
>> titanium anything in there?
>
>I don't have a copy of my previous post handy, but
>I *did* cover the expenses. You can't make even a
>halfway decent 5 watt amp and sell it for a reasonable
>profit for $200. A *top notch* 15 watt amp without
>getting into any really new ground will have to sell
>for between $500 and $1,000 if you are building most
>of it by hand, or having people do very limited production
>runs for the parts you can't or don't want to do. And
>believe me, it will end up being closer to $1,000 than
>to $500.
>
>On top of this, Mr. Zimmerman has a huge amount of time
>and money invested in his research and patent. Why
>should he take a huge loss on that? (If any of the big
>players had licensed his technology, that cost per amp
>would have been *much* lower.) So he not only has
>bills to pay, he has debts (whether to creditors or his
>retirement account) to pay off.
My opinion: if he tries to sell his 15-watt amp for $4k,he will,if he's
lucky,sell a couple of hundred of them to recording studios and wealthy
hobbyists.
The more I've thought about it,the goofier this crap seems.For 4 grand you
could own a tweed Deluxe,a BFDR,a Vox AC-30,and have money left over for your
kid's college fund.
I haven't seen anyone note the fact that Maven Peal has a quarter-page ad in
the latest GP magazine.Is there a pic of an amp on the website yet? Has one
actually been made?
Joe
Miles O'Neal <m...@rru.com> wrote in message
news:382CFC4E...@rru.com...
> Rich Koerner wrote:
>
> > I have made my choice on this matter. That is to keep an open mind and
> > wait to see what happens next.
>
> reactions, having your buttons pressed, and
> knowing everything? What kind of weirdo are you?
>
> 8^)
What? In this group? How dare he... it's the flames that keep this ng
hopping!!
Mikey
Joe wrote:
>
> Miles O'Neal <m...@rru.com> wrote in message
> news:382CFC4E...@rru.com...
> > Rich Koerner wrote:
> >
> > > I have made my choice on this matter. That is to keep an open mind and
> > > wait to see what happens next.
> >
> > ??? Open mind? Wait and see? But what of knee-jerk
> > reactions, having your buttons pressed, and
> > knowing everything? What kind of weirdo are you?
> >
> > 8^)
>
> What? In this group? How dare he... it's the flames that keep this ng
> hopping!!
Well then, stay tuned Joe, cause there will probably be more hopping
going on. It seems that I'm one of the only people that will speak out
against these ridiculous prices being charged. There's a lot of people
that agree with me, and send me emails privately, but not many that will
open their mouth in here to protest this "vintage" bullshit thats going
around. I just don't want to see people getting ripped off and
overcharged. I'm not saying that Maven Peal doesn't make a great amp,
but I dunno cause I've never seen or heard one, but I'm sure that they
make the best amp that they possibly can. And the sag technology, I'm
sure is great as well, maybe even a "breakthrough" or something. But I
just can't see the $4,000 part of the deal. Hell, some of the greatest
amps on the market, Victoria, Matchless, Bruno, Kendrick, BF and SF
Fenders, etc... sell for less than that, some of them for 1/2 that or
less. And these are proven, boutique, handmade, point-to-point wired
amps. Everbody knows these amps and knows the pro's that play them. I
don't know if Maven Peal's amps are as good or better than these other
amps. But it takes balls in my opinion to price yourself higher than the
established hand-made amps, without anyone hearing, or even seeing the
amps for that matter. If you can afford to buy one, and you want to
order it sight and sound un-seen, then God Bless Ya, and go for it. But
IMHO, a 15 watt amp is not worth $4,000, nor any amp on the market for
that matter. Most people on here know that I just picked up a SF
Princeton Reverb, 12 watts, for $300.00. The amp sounds great. I'll
probably sink a few hundred more in it with new tubes, servicing, and
some minor mods. Is the Maven Peal's tone $3,700.00 better than my SF
Princeton Reverb? Maybe, maybe not. But, to my ears, it's not gonna be
that much better, and definetly not $3,700.00 better. But after all,
this is America, and if people want to buy a $4,000.00 amp, then it's
their right to do so, just as it is Maven Peal's right to charge that
price. But, since this is America, and since I have an opinion, and
since I can share my opinion with everyone here, I have chosen to do so.
I sincerely hope that Maven Peal succeeds and I wish them the best of
luck. Maybe someday, all amps will have their sag circuit, and then they
will be reasonably priced. But for now, the price is way outta range for
the vast majority.
Monte Barnett
>Well then, stay tuned Joe, cause there will probably be more hopping
>going on. It seems that I'm one of the only people that will speak out
>against these ridiculous prices being charged.
I already had my say about a $4000 15-watt 1x12 amp. Nothing's changed my
mind yet. Maybe in 10 years or so when inflation has made everything
increase in price by 100%, $4000 might br reasonable, but it ain't right
now!
> There's a lot of people
>that agree with me, and send me emails privately, but not many that will
>open their mouth in here to protest this "vintage" bullshit thats going
>around.
If by "vintage" bullshit, you mean the skyrocketing prices of 50s & 60s
guitars & amps, largely brought about by people who just want to hoard them
as "investments", then I agree. On one hand, I wish I had the money to own
one of every *good* vintage amp ever made, but it would be unrealistic and
selfish to not let others have the opportunity to own a truly well-made amp
with great tone.
[ $4000 amp stuff snipped ]
>Hell, some of the greatest
>amps on the market, Victoria, Matchless, Bruno, Kendrick, BF and SF
>Fenders, etc... sell for less than that, some of them for 1/2 that or
>less.
Excellent point. I've heard arguements about needing several amps to do
what one "special" amp can do, but I simply don't recall ever feeling like
my main amp was a "one-trick pony". I seem to be able to get a pretty wide
range of tones (colors?) out of any setup I use. (Mind you - I'm not some
hot-shot guitarist, but I do alright). And contrary to some of the opinions
I've read here in AGA, I think there are classic guitar/amp sounds that will
NEVER be outdated, stale, or otherwise in need of change. Some sounds are
timeless, and are the essence of what electric guitar (or bass, organ, etc.)
is all about.
Monte Barnett
mbarnett AT valleyint DOT com
Mikey
Monte Barnett wrote:
>
> Mikey wrote:
>
> >Well then, stay tuned Joe, cause there will probably be more hopping
> >going on. It seems that I'm one of the only people that will speak out
> >against these ridiculous prices being charged.
>
> I already had my say about a $4000 15-watt 1x12 amp. Nothing's changed my
> mind yet. Maybe in 10 years or so when inflation has made everything
> increase in price by 100%, $4000 might br reasonable, but it ain't right
> now!
Thanks Monte. It's nice to meet another sane person in here. I love it
when all these guys
pipe up that Maven Peal's price is fair cause he's got some secret
invention or something, or, that
he's free to charge whatever he wants (which I agree, he is). But then,
how many of the Maven Peal amps
do these guys own? Huh? Are they gonna plunk down 4K for an amp that we
haven't seen or heard and know
not much about? Let them put there money where their mouths are.
>
> > There's a lot of people
> >that agree with me, and send me emails privately, but not many that will
> >open their mouth in here to protest this "vintage" bullshit thats going
> >around.
>
> If by "vintage" bullshit, you mean the skyrocketing prices of 50s & 60s
> guitars & amps, largely brought about by people who just want to hoard them
> as "investments", then I agree. On one hand, I wish I had the money to own
> one of every *good* vintage amp ever made, but it would be unrealistic and
> selfish to not let others have the opportunity to own a truly well-made amp
> with great tone.
Monte, I mean not only the skyrocketing prices of the 50's and 60's
equipment, I also mean this whole "vintage"
vibe bullshit that the marketing types are throwing around. Everything
is vintage this, and vintage that. A few
years ago, everyone was throwing "tone" around. Get the tone, this amp
has the tone, we've got your tone, etc...
I see shit that's 10 years old or so, and now, it's "vintage 80's".
C'mon guys, don't fall for this marketing bullshit.
This whole vintage thing was created. The spin doctors are out in full
force feeding this frenzy. To the un-informed, one
would think that they needed a "vintage" amp and guitar to sound
half-way decent. The marketeer's would also have you believe
that you gotta spend a lot of money for gear to sound good, or to cop
your hero's tones. Bullshit!! I just bought a NEW Amer. Std.
Strat. This guitar has the smoothest, silkiest, fastest neck of any
guitar I've ever played. It actually inspires because it's so easy and
is such a joy to play (cost $579.00 w/out case - but I bought the case
also for another $80.00). I put in a set of Texas Specials ($130.00) and
a tortoise shell pickguard ($40.00, just cause it goes well with my
sunburst finish). I spent $300.00 for a
SF Princeton Reverb amp (imagine, a point-to-point, handwired amp for
$300). I got some pedals along the way, bought used in mint condition
for very reasonable prices. All in all, maybe I spent between 1K = 1.5K
for everything. And, IMHO, I'm getting some seriously good tones here.
The player's that have been around for awhile know that this bullshit is
going on. It's primarily the new players that are getting caught up in
the hype and are being taken advantage of. I was checking out Blackface
Fenders when they were new in the store. These are guitars and amps
here, wood, metal, electronics, plastics. They are not archeological
relics. But the hypesters are trying to elevate anything older than 10
years or so to museum status. Sorry, I don't buy into this shit. Get a
guitar that sounds good, an amp that you like, a few pedals, and play
your guitar. Stop worrying about how old it is, what year it was made,
if it was made during the "good" period, or whatever. If it sounds good,
play it.
>
> [ $4000 amp stuff snipped ]
>
> >Hell, some of the greatest
> >amps on the market, Victoria, Matchless, Bruno, Kendrick, BF and SF
> >Fenders, etc... sell for less than that, some of them for 1/2 that or
> >less.
>
> Excellent point. I've heard arguements about needing several amps to do
> what one "special" amp can do, but I simply don't recall ever feeling like
> my main amp was a "one-trick pony". I seem to be able to get a pretty wide
> range of tones (colors?) out of any setup I use. (Mind you - I'm not some
> hot-shot guitarist, but I do alright). And contrary to some of the opinions
> I've read here in AGA, I think there are classic guitar/amp sounds that will
> NEVER be outdated, stale, or otherwise in need of change. Some sounds are
> timeless, and are the essence of what electric guitar (or bass, organ, etc.)
> is all about.
>
I agree with you wholeheartedly here Monte. I have nothing against Maven
Peal. When I first read about their amp and sag circuit, I immediately
went to their websit full of hope and excitement. I was very interested
in hearing more about their amps. Then, imagine how I felt when I don't
get to see the amp, don't get to hear it, and then see that it's only
gonna cost me $4,000 for a 15 watt amp. Well, shit, I have kids to feed,
and a mortgage and cars to pay for, and all the other bills that a
family has. 4K is just plain un-reasonable for that amp, sorry, unless
there's precious metals in there or something that costs a fortune to
make, I'm not buying it. My son could attend the local University for a
year for 4K. The other, ESTABLISHED, tried and true boutique amp makers
out there are charging more than the run-of-the-mill Fenders, but they
are much better quality. So then, how's come we can get a Victoria or
Matchless for half the price of the Maven Peal? And Victoria and
Matchless are PROVEN, WELL-KNOWN, PLAYED BY PRO'S type amps. I just
think that it's business suicide to charge so much for an amp that
no-one knows anything about.
Miles O'Neal
> Thanks Monte. It's nice to meet another sane person in here. I love it
> when all these guys
> pipe up that Maven Peal's price is fair cause he's got some secret
> invention or something
I just have to ask. Have you actually read and considered anything
that disagrees with your viewpoint? It sure doesn't sound like it.
It sounds like you just want to rant and rave.
If you even attempted to address the issues other people have raised,
instead of using broad, sweeping statements like, "I just want to keep
people from being ripped off" - which is rather meaningless in the
current context - I would be happy to listen.
-Miles
Marshall
tuned.......................................................................
....................................
Mar
Miles O'Neal <m...@rru.com> wrote in message
news:382E4BC7...@rru.com...
> Mikey wrote:
>
> > Thanks Monte. It's nice to meet another sane person in here. I love it
> > when all these guys
> > pipe up that Maven Peal's price is fair cause he's got some secret
ACLARKE3
>tuned..
You had better call David first. I get the impression that he does not have
them pre built, sitting around collecting dust.
Mikey
Miles O'Neal wrote:
>
> Mikey wrote:
>
> > Thanks Monte. It's nice to meet another sane person in here. I love it
> > when all these guys
> > pipe up that Maven Peal's price is fair cause he's got some secret
> > invention or something
>
> I just have to ask. Have you actually read and considered anything
> that disagrees with your viewpoint? It sure doesn't sound like it.
> It sounds like you just want to rant and rave.
Miles, of course I have read all of the other comments and I do consider
everyone's opinion. It may sound like I just want to rant and rave but
this is not the case. When I heard about the Maven Peal amp, I was
extremely interested in the technology that they were talking about.
But, what do we have here that's more than just words? We don't have any
pic's of the amp, we don't have any soundclips so that we can hear how
great the amp is or what it does that makes it different. All I have
seen is what their website says, and let's face it, every company's web
site is going to tout their products, I wouldn't expect anything less.
My point is that their technology may indeed be great or a new
breakthrough or whatever, but charging 4K for the amp IMHO is not the
way to introduce a breakthrough product to the market. How is word gonna
get around about a great new amp if not many people can even afford to
buy one? Why take a chance on this product since we can't see it, can't
hear it, don't know who plays it, and it's much more expensive than
tried and true established amps. Now let me ask you, are you gonna buy
one?
>
> If you even attempted to address the issues other people have raised,
> instead of using broad, sweeping statements like, "I just want to keep
> people from being ripped off" - which is rather meaningless in the
> current context - I would be happy to listen.
Miles, I have participated in many threads, not just this Maven Peal
one. My comment of "just wanting to keep people from getting ripped off"
is not just directed at Maven Peal. It's not that I don't want anyone to
buy a Maven Peal amp, because like I said before, I was interested in
hearing more about them myself, it's the ideal of dropping 4K sight and
sound un-seen that doesn't make sense to me. But that comment again,
wasn't directed just at Maven Peal. I'm speaking about the industry in
general. The word "vintage" just flows from every salesmens mouth soooo
freely, like everything that they're selling is a classic, museum
collectible. I'm not against buying an older piece of equipment,
especially if it has features that maybe aren't currently available. But
really now Miles, if you follow the industry and the guitar mags and
articles and interviews, don't ya just wanna laugh and shake your head
at some of the crap that's flowing around? I hear this crap all the
time, "this 30 year old tube sounds better", "The guitars made in 1965
between January and March are the best", etc... There's all kinds of
this crap out there. And of course, since all this stuff "sounds
better", the price is naturally gonna be many times more than it should
be. I address issues as I see them. If I agree, I say so, If I disagree,
I say so to, because that is my right. Everyone has their opinion. If
someone tells me that they're gonna drop the 4K for the Maven Peal
because that's what they want, fine, it's their money. But there may be
some players out there that don't really know what's going on with the
market, and they really have been told over and over that they gotta
spend the big bucks so they can "sound better". Well, sorry, I don't buy
into that, and I will express my opinion to them. Look at all the
various posts on here. I see posts all the time from obviously new
players. Posts like "which amp should I buy", "which guitar should I
buy", "somebody please tell me what to buy", they obviously must be
confused newbies seeking help. They might as well just wear a sign that
says "somebody please come and rip me off". And believe me, there's
plenty of people out there that will accomodate them. But I'm just
taking the stance that you don't necessarily have to spend a lot for
good tone, and just because it's older, doesn't make it "better".
> -Miles
Mikey
Marshall wrote:
>
> I live in Vermont and I am thinking about taking a trip to hear one. Stay
> tuned.......................................................................
> ....................................
I would be interested to hear your review of the amp. Maybe you could
ask them to post some pics and/or soundclips so that everyone else can
see the product. If it turns out that this amp is great and is some
kinda breakthrough, then, I will humbly recind my earlier comments about
the amp not being worth 4K and I will "eat my words" so to speak. Keep
us posted.
>
> Mar
>
> Miles O'Neal <m...@rru.com> wrote in message
> news:382E4BC7...@rru.com...
> > Mikey wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Monte. It's nice to meet another sane person in here. I love it
> > > when all these guys
> > > pipe up that Maven Peal's price is fair cause he's got some secret
> > > invention or something
> >
> > I just have to ask. Have you actually read and considered anything
> > that disagrees with your viewpoint? It sure doesn't sound like it.
> > It sounds like you just want to rant and rave.
> >
> > If you even attempted to address the issues other people have raised,
> > instead of using broad, sweeping statements like, "I just want to keep
> > people from being ripped off" - which is rather meaningless in the
> > current context - I would be happy to listen.
> >
> > -Miles
Joe
with this guy
Joe wrote in message ...
Joe wrote in message ...
>
>Miles O'Neal <m...@rru.com> wrote in message
>news:382CFC4E...@rru.com...
>> Rich Koerner wrote:
>>
>> > I have made my choice on this matter. That is to keep an open mind and
>> > wait to see what happens next.
>>
Roger Smith
too pricy? :dont buy it!
sounds good to you? think its worth it? :then buy it!
but most people here haven't heard it, and are talking out
of their arse on something they haven't heard. It aint
carpet. You dont buy an amp by the metre. I stress again,
how ever good/bad it is, he's not forcing you to buy it.
he certainly aint pricing for the masses. so dont wine and
go "most people can't afford it!' No shit! I dont think the
guy cares that most cant' afford it. So buy something else
and stop whining. For crying out loud.
*&%*&^%*^%*%
Rodge
JoeArthur
Joe <joe...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:80o5r2$5ee$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net...
I can certainly understand that! To lessen your confusion, I will also use
my last name.
STRINGBEND
>don't want to come off like I'm a critic or that I'm a complainer. I'm
>just pissed off in general at the way the instrument market has gone and
>is going. I mean, look around, everybody has to mention "vintage" in
>
No doubt 'vintage' is the marketing hype word of the decade. But I disagree
with your overall point here. The instrument market is going in several
directions at once, not just one. I've never been more impressed with the
value that can be found in entry level gear. I almost wish I needed new stuff!
Plus, where do you draw the line? You've got a PR that you like. (Me too).
But what if it was a more expensive Soldano Astroverb that floated your boat
and you just 'had to have it'. Any reason you shouldn't? People here are
talking about how a lot of good amps are available for half the cost of a Peal,
yet I'd find it hard to pay even that much.
Let the Peal's try to make a living at the 4K price point. Meanwhile there are
good value amps, like a Fender Pro Junior, way down at the other end of the
spectrum.
Take care,
STRINGBEND
Monte Barnett
>you whingers just dont get it.
Yer right ......what's a "whinger"?
>too pricy? :dont buy it!
>sounds good to you? think its worth it? :then buy it!
I've always subscribed to the "where there's a will, there's a way"
school of thought. If I really want something, I'll figure out a way to
float the funds for it. In this case, it comes down to simple "amp-onomics":
I wouldn't care if it was Jimi-frigging-Hendrix's mint condition 15-watt
Marshall amplifier ..... I still wouldn't pay $4000 for it. Whining because
you can't afford it is one thing, waving the bullshit flag over an
outrageous price is another thing entirely.
>but most people here haven't heard it, and are talking out
>of their arse on something they haven't heard.
Most of us HAVE heard truly excellent guitar amps which don't cost $4000.
We have a basis for comparison. The truly unique aspect of the Maven-Peal is
the sag circuit, which David has previously posted would cost about
$400-$500 to install in an existing amp.
>he certainly aint pricing for the masses. so dont wine and
>go "most people can't afford it!' No shit! I dont think the
>guy cares that most cant' afford it. So buy something else
>and stop whining.
The fact is, he's advertising something which has NO history for a higher
price than the great amps which DO have a proven history. And just in case
you weren't aware of it, this newsgroup has no rules, and I don't give a
rat's ass if you think this thread is "whinging". Don't like it? Simple
solution ..... put me in your frigging filter, asshole!
Miles O'Neal
...
> But, what do we have here that's more than just words? We don't have any
> pic's of the amp, we don't have any soundclips so that we can hear how
> great the amp is or what it does that makes it different.
He has said that he will build one that he will ship to several people
in the group to review, and he is sending one to GP.
...
> Why take a chance on this product since we can't see it, can't
> hear it, don't know who plays it, and it's much more expensive than
> tried and true established amps. Now let me ask you, are you gonna buy
> one?
If I had $4K to spend on an amp, I could probably come up with $300
for a round trip ticket to wherever the heck he is, to test it.
...
> It's not that I don't want anyone to
> buy a Maven Peal amp, because like I said before, I was interested in
> hearing more about them myself, it's the ideal of dropping 4K sight and
> sound un-seen that doesn't make sense to me.
Can't argue with that. But then, I figure anyone who would be willing
to take that chance probably isn't interested in my advice...
> But that comment again,
> wasn't directed just at Maven Peal. I'm speaking about the industry in
> general.
If I had seen that in your post, I wouldn't have argued at all.
It sounded to me like it was targeted at MP. Sorry if I missed
something.
-Miles, hopefully better with age
Miles O'Neal
>
> Roger Smith wrote:
>
> >you whingers just dont get it.
>
> Yer right ......what's a "whinger"?
whinger (n) - when'-jer
For an actual definition, search the talk.bizarre archives.
-Miles
Roger Smith
Monte Barnett wrote:
> Most of us HAVE heard truly excellent guitar amps which don't cost $4000.
> We have a basis for comparison. The truly unique aspect of the Maven-Peal is
> the sag circuit, which David has previously posted would cost about
> $400-$500 to install in an existing amp.
sure like, i've driven a nice bmw, wtf then would ferrari
hundreds of thousands more?
indeed. you aint heard it. dont assume you've heard it all
already. you dont buy amps by the metre einstein! so the sag
circtuit in materials costs about 500? and since when do you
just pay for materials only, pea brain?
> >he certainly aint pricing for the masses. so dont wine and
> >go "most people can't afford it!' No shit! I dont think the
> >guy cares that most cant' afford it. So buy something else
> >and stop whining.
>
> The fact is, he's advertising something which has NO history for a higher
> price than the great amps which DO have a proven history.
stiff shit. he's can set what ever price he wants. screw
history.
man, has it got you in a knot!
hehe
And just in case
> you weren't aware of it, this newsgroup has no rules, and I don't give a
> rat's ass if you think this thread is "whinging". Don't like it? Simple
> solution ..... put me in your frigging filter, asshole!
maybe you should do the same with this amp and it's price
too, hehe
Rodge
Monte Barnett
>sure like, i've driven a nice bmw, wtf then would ferrari
>hundreds of thousands more?
Bad analogy. The sag circuit is the truly important aspect of this amp.
The rest is just a rehash of proven circuits, with overkill in parts specs:
gold-plated tube sockets, etc. Spending $400 - $500 to have an add-on done
to a $1000 - $2000 amp is far different than spending $4000 on an amp that
has $1000 worth of unnecessary bullshit costs added to it.
>you aint heard it. dont assume you've heard it all
>already. you dont buy amps by the metre einstein!
I don't assume I've heard everything. But it doesn't take a brain surgeon
to see that a great deal of the cost of this amp is on frivolous bullshit
that is completely unnecessary, as proven by numerous other excellent and
reasonably priced amps.
> so the sag
>circtuit in materials costs about 500? and since when do you
>just pay for materials only, pea brain?
You're obviously clueless about the previous information given by David
Zimmerman. He said it would cost someone around $400 - $500 to have the
circuit put into their amp. Not for materials ..... for the installed
product. Kiss off, wanker.
>stiff shit. he's can set what ever price he wants. screw
>history.
If his sag circuit works as advertised, I hope he hasn't cut his own
throat with such a ridiculous price on his amplifier. Screw you.
>man, has it got you in a knot!
Not really. I'm just not going to agree in any way, shape, or form, that
there is a 15 watt, 1x12 amp made (or previously owned) by anyone that's
worth $4000.
>> solution ..... put me in your frigging filter, asshole!
>
>maybe you should do the same with this amp and it's price
>too, hehe
Naw, I'll keep reading this thread. But I'll put you in my filter.
Mikey
STRINGBEND wrote:
>
> In article <382BA73D...@home.com>, Mikey <recrui...@home.com> writes:
>
> >don't want to come off like I'm a critic or that I'm a complainer. I'm
> >just pissed off in general at the way the instrument market has gone and
> >is going. I mean, look around, everybody has to mention "vintage" in
> >
>
> No doubt 'vintage' is the marketing hype word of the decade. But I disagree
> with your overall point here. The instrument market is going in several
> directions at once, not just one. I've never been more impressed with the
> value that can be found in entry level gear. I almost wish I needed new stuff!
I agree with your points here. "Vintage" definetly is the marketing hype
word of the decade. And I admit that there are good values out there
like the Blues Jr. and Pro Jr. These amps give everyone an opportunity
to have some tone for not a lot of bucks.
>
>
> Plus, where do you draw the line? You've got a PR that you like. (Me too).
> But what if it was a more expensive Soldano Astroverb that floated your boat
> and you just 'had to have it'. Any reason you shouldn't? People here are
> talking about how a lot of good amps are available for half the cost of a Peal,
> yet I'd find it hard to pay even that much.
I don't know if there is an absolute line. I don't have all the answers.
I just get tired of the marketing hype. Yea, I love the SF PR that I
just bought. It was very low priced IMO for a hand-wired amp, compared
to a lot of the new boutique makers. I don't know if I would want to or
could justify spending $1,500 or more for a hand-made amp, not when I
got the SF PR for $300, and I see SF DR's for around $500-$600, etc.
I'll buy one of these amps and put a few hundred more into them and have
a really nice amp for not a ton of money.
>
> Let the Peal's try to make a living at the 4K price point. Meanwhile there are
> good value amps, like a Fender Pro Junior, way down at the other end of the
> spectrum.
Yep, there are good values out there like the Pro Jr, and Blues Jr. I
have a Blues Jr. also, but I actually spent more on it than the SF PR
that I just bought. There are good deals out there if you keep your eyes
open for them on a daily basis. Everyone deserves to make a living, and
I wish Mavel Peal the best in their business. I think that everyone has
misunderstood what I've been saying all along here. I'm not against
Maven Peal making a living, I hope that their sag technology is great
and catches on for all concerned. I'm just saying that IMHO, 4k for a 15
watt amp is outta line. If people out there wanna buy one, or, just
gotta have one, or whatever, then more power to em. Let them spend their
4K on the amp if it will make them happy. I don't believe one needs to
spend 4K on an amp to get good tone (whatever that is to the player),
I'm not gonna spend 4K to buy the amp or any amp for that matter, this
is my opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion, and I'm sticking to my
opinion. Lastly, I'm about worn out with this thread. I've said all that
I have cared to say about Maven Peal and the price of the amp, and of
the "vintage" hype thing in general. If player's out there want to spend
tons of money on equipment thinking that it will make them "better" or
whatever, then let em, it's their money. I look around for good deals
and move on them when they surface. I've got some of the tones that I
have been seeking for not a lot of money. I like to buy used equipment
in good or better condition. Sometimes (and I'm guilty of this myself) I
think that we focus too much on equipment rather than playing. I think
that I'm gonna start shifting away from acquiring more and more
equipment in the "quest for tone" and I'm just gonna start woodshedding
more. They always say that a great guitarist can play shitty gear and
still sound great. I'm done worrying about equipment, I'm gonna start
practicing more.
>
> Take care,
> STRINGBEND
Mikey
Monte Barnett wrote:
>
> Roger Smith wrote:
>
> >you whingers just dont get it.
>
> Yer right ......what's a "whinger"?
>
> >too pricy? :dont buy it!
> >sounds good to you? think its worth it? :then buy it!
>
> I've always subscribed to the "where there's a will, there's a way"
> school of thought. If I really want something, I'll figure out a way to
> float the funds for it. In this case, it comes down to simple "amp-onomics":
> I wouldn't care if it was Jimi-frigging-Hendrix's mint condition 15-watt
> Marshall amplifier ..... I still wouldn't pay $4000 for it. Whining because
> you can't afford it is one thing, waving the bullshit flag over an
> outrageous price is another thing entirely.
>
Touche' Monte, man, I was getting lonely on this thread. All I've been
trying to do here is to "wave the bullshit flag" as you put it. A lot of
people mistake it for whining, but it's not. It's more like "wake up to
the bullshit everyone".
> >but most people here haven't heard it, and are talking out
> >of their arse on something they haven't heard.
>
> Most of us HAVE heard truly excellent guitar amps which don't cost $4000.
> We have a basis for comparison. The truly unique aspect of the Maven-Peal is
> the sag circuit, which David has previously posted would cost about
> $400-$500 to install in an existing amp.
Yeppers, we have truly great amps today that cost nowhere near 4K.
>
> >he certainly aint pricing for the masses. so dont wine and
> >go "most people can't afford it!' No shit! I dont think the
> >guy cares that most cant' afford it. So buy something else
> >and stop whining.
>
> The fact is, he's advertising something which has NO history for a higher
> price than the great amps which DO have a proven history. And just in case
> you weren't aware of it, this newsgroup has no rules, and I don't give a
> rat's ass if you think this thread is "whinging". Don't like it? Simple
> solution ..... put me in your frigging filter, asshole!
My point exactly.
Kent Pearson
pretty clear that that you can see through the bullshit that many are caught up
in. Man, I'm STILL working on those Albert King licks that he did on a SS
Acoustic amp! And it seems that the ones I've managed to get exactly right
sound good on whatever amp I'm using! Funny how that works! You know, I just
got this funny picture in my mind of someone going after their idea of tone,
spending "car money" on the latest fad with it's "droop circuit" and having a
good workout - - it was some metal banger hitting and holding a "power" chord
every fourth measure throughout the entire song - - yeah, okokok, I'll be cool
:-)
>Lastly, I'm about worn out with this thread. I've said all that
>I have cared to say about Maven Peal and the price of the amp, and of
>the "vintage" hype thing in general. If player's out there want to spend
>tons of money on equipment thinking that it will make them "better" or
>whatever, then let em, it's their money. I look around for good deals
>and move on them when they surface. I've got some of the tones that I
>have been seeking for not a lot of money. I like to buy used equipment
>in good or better condition. Sometimes (and I'm guilty of this myself) I
>think that we focus too much on equipment rather than playing. I think
>that I'm gonna start shifting away from acquiring more and more
>equipment in the "quest for tone" and I'm just gonna start woodshedding
>more. They always say that a great guitarist can play shitty gear and
>still sound great. I'm done worrying about equipment, I'm gonna start
>practicing more.
- Kent Pearson
"Fall mountains, just don't fall on me" (Jimi Hendrix - If 6 Was 9)
Kent Pearson
circuit I've patented called the "droop" circuit. For $1,200.00 you also get
a wall wart power supply, a padded case and a certificate of authenticity with
our official slogan, "There's One Born Every Minute". The line starts here!
(heyyyyy.... where'd everybody go??)