screen
richie
"Could you make the artwork in black and we'll add the ink in as a pms...
If we postscript it to the image setter it will
screen the artwork because it is in a color."
Thanks for any help
steggy
LOL verrrry funny.
The printer makes a film of your design as you know. If you
want a green square printed, it does not really matter if
you deliver it as a green or a black square, the fiml is
black anyway. It is the ink they use while printing that
makes the color.
I must say this message of your printer does not sound
hopeful.........never ever did I hear of that. It will
screen the artwork because it is in color......pffffffffff.
Sending the artwork to the image setter is normal procedure
of course, handing it over in color should not be a problem
at all.
--
steg
Paul Asente
richie...@yahoo.com (richie) wrote:
What they mean is that if you have artwork with a single color (say
green), and you print it out on a black and white device, the color will
come out as some shade of gray. (Just try it on a desktop printer set
to print in black and white.) If you then print this with green ink,
the green will be "screened" to a lower intensity. But if you make your
artwork in black, and then print it with green ink, the color will come
out with full intensity.
The print shop is trying to free you from having to learn about spot
color workflow, which would turn the green into black for you
automatically.
-- paul asente
To reply, make the host be the same as my last name
steggy
Sorry Paul but I do not get this?
What color workflow? If green artwork is delivered to a
printing office they should have no problem at all. Try
printing your artwork separated on your desktop printer, all
colors will come out full black (if the colors are 100%). I
never use Illustrator for that by the way, but InDesign,
Pagemaker or XPress.
--
steg
Alexgirl
would not apply, I think, in 4-colour process print, but for web printing
I've been told this too. See a 15% screen of PMS 247 is way lighter than a
15% screen of black when it's viewed as greyscale. When the printer sends
the file to film, the film is produced somewhat like a greyscale print. So
then the film goes to the press and the ink output is according to the
screen intensity on the film which would be lighter if lifted from a green
Illy file than if from a black Illy file. All my work is done in black for
the printers, with notations for what colour(s) to use. (Well, actually I
often forget and make my reds red instead of black on another layer..., but
it SHOULD be in black.)
--
Alex
Remove me to reply.
"steggy" <stegg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F6A1F99...@cox.net...
Paul Asente
wrote:
Let's say you have a business logo you want printed in green on some
t-shirts. You bring a file to a show with the logo in some process
green color. This won't work for printing in green ink. There are two
options:
1. The shop tells you to learn about spot color workflow. Learn how to
make a green spot color, learn how to make sure you have no process
colors in your document, learn about separations. Intimidating for a
casual person who just wants to get something printed in green.
2. The shop tells you to just make your design black, and they'll print
it in green ink. Much simpler.
steggy
Wait a sec........now I get the header of this thread:) We
are talking Screen Printing?
But still: if you have a green logo, and nothing else, there
is no separation necessary. In my 20 years experience with
printing offices (occasionally also screen printing) I never
had that question and I never had a problem delivering
whatever colors and shades and tints.
If I make a green logo, I will just deliver it at the
printing office and they will deal fine with that. According
to my knowledge (I am not a printer), it goes through the
RIP to the image setter which will result in a film, or
plate (when Direct to Plate is involved) which can be used
for printing. Black or green, no difference.
With more colors the same story, but they will send it
seperated to the image setter, for reference I deliver a
separated laserprint set. Of course sometimes I chose the
quick route and gave the printer a "black file" with the
instruction to print in PMS xxx, if there was just one color
involved. But that was more because of lazyness and/or time pressure.
--
steg
Alexgirl
know my web press printers are much happier with all black artwork. The only
"screen" I am talking about is just the effect given by gradients. Maybe we
need a printer on board here...
--
Alex
Remove me to reply.
"steggy" <stegg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F6B6630...@cox.net...
MSD
> Sorry, Steg, I don't know the exact details and inner workings, but I do
> know my web press printers are much happier with all black artwork. The only
> "screen" I am talking about is just the effect given by gradients. Maybe we
>>>>>> What does the print shop mean by this???
>>>>>> "Could you make the artwork in black and we'll add the ink in as a
> pms...
>>>>>> If we postscript it to the image setter it will
>>>>>> screen the artwork because it is in a color."
-----
Did you supply the original file as an RGB 100% green or a CMYK 100% green?
If you created a green in RGB and submitted the file
yes
the imagesetter would spit out a screened image.
MSD
steggy
Of course, RGB is not for printing, maybe that is the issue?
--
steg
steggy
original poster gave Alex. Screen.......I suddenly wondered
what he/she meant by that.
What is a web press printer?
How do you deal with a full color magazine, deliver it all
in black???? I do not know what this is about I think LOL. A
gradient is nothing else than two colors next to eacht
other, the diferents is they blend into each other as you
know of course. Sorry, but I am missing the point here
somewhere I believe......like I said: I never gave printers
a black file, almost always in the colors they should be and
never one problem.
steg
LauraK
>
>How do you deal with a full color magazine, deliver it all
>in black????
Everything that goes on the press for a 4-color job is "black."
You have to be able to visualize how the four colors are printed.
The four colors are separated into separate files, each containing the
information for where dots of that color should be placed by the press.
When these are output as a film, it's in black and clear. Dot or no dot.
Shadings and gradations are achieved by changing the density of the dots in an
area.
In order to print on paper -- and this is a very simplified explanation -- the
film is used to make a plate of the dots -- like raised bumps. The plate is
placed on the press. The ink for that plate is put into the inkwell for the
press. The paper is run through it.
It comes out with just that color on it. It dries.
The next plate is put on the press. The color for that ink is put in. The paper
goes through the press again. Dots in the next color are deposited on the paper
on top of the first set of dots.
Same for the next two.
The color the plate puts on the paper is determined by what ink is in the
printer when it is run.
A screen can mean a lot of different things. If you're running black and white,
you can achieve greys by running a "screen" of the black (reduce the density of
the dots). I don't hear this called screen much anymore, though. In the
pre-computer days, when you'd have to cut rubylith to make things different
shades of grey, you'd designate it a 60% screen or an 80% screen so the printer
would know how to shoot that acetate. You had a cardboard wheel that showed you
the screens of the different process colors.
If you have time, drop in at a small commercial printer sometime, one that's
been in business for awhile, and offer to buy him lunch in exchange for a short
education in how the press works.
lau...@madmousergraphics.com
http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
steggy
>
> If you have time, drop in at a small commercial printer sometime, one that's
> been in business for awhile, and offer to buy him lunch in exchange for a short
> education in how the press works.
>
> lau...@madmousergraphics.com
> http://www.madmousergraphics.com
> web design, print design, photography
Ahum...........I have been working with printed matters (as
graphic designer) for over 20 years Laura, had many lunches
with printers:))
So your explanation above is not necessary for me.
The discussion is about how to deliver the pre press files
to the printing office, everything in black (including the
"screens")? Or in the colors you want them to be. And my
view is clearly: in the colors, the printing offices (or
lithographers) I worked with never had any problem to make
separated films of those. That also goes for a green logo
with shades in them for instance. Not a problem what so
ever, yes, the desk top printer makes a grey out of a 100%
color (though most sodtware has the option "print colors in
black"), but the film will be 100% black. If not we are
dealing with an office I would not want to deal with.
--
steg
Paul Asente
wrote:
> Wait a sec........now I get the header of this thread:) We
> are talking Screen Printing?
>
> But still: if you have a green logo, and nothing else, there
> is no separation necessary. In my 20 years experience with
> printing offices (occasionally also screen printing) I never
> had that question and I never had a problem delivering
> whatever colors and shades and tints.
>
> If I make a green logo, I will just deliver it at the
> printing office and they will deal fine with that. According
> to my knowledge (I am not a printer), it goes through the
> RIP to the image setter which will result in a film, or
> plate (when Direct to Plate is involved) which can be used
> for printing. Black or green, no difference.
>
> With more colors the same story, but they will send it
> seperated to the image setter, for reference I deliver a
> separated laserprint set. Of course sometimes I chose the
> quick route and gave the printer a "black file" with the
> instruction to print in PMS xxx, if there was just one color
> involved. But that was more because of lazyness and/or time pressure.
That's because you know abound and understand spot color workflows and
separations.
If I want a green logo printed on some letterhead in some green ink, and
I give the print shop a file with the logo in process green, either they
have to convert it to spot green (charging money) or they have to
convert it to black and white (charging money). *Someone* has to
convert it from process green to something that will print out correctly
in green ink. It has nothing to do with what kind of printing. The
"screen" being referred to in the thread title is what the print shop
meant when they said that if it wasn't converted to black, the green ink
would come out screened (printed at less than 100%).
Forget everything you know about spot colors. Forget everything you
know about press workflow. Go into Illustrator, type some text for a
letterhead, fill it with process green. Take the file to a print shop,
look in their color book, point to a swatch, and say "that's the color
ink I want." What happens now?
steggy
That is not the way to do it. If you make the letterhead in
a color, in CMYK, let us still take the green. That will
work but costs a lot of unnecessary money. Agreed. The only
thing the customer needs to know is the existence of Pantone
colors. That is just it in this case.
Answering your question: the printing office from the
original poster should have told him to use Pantone. Not
tell him to give it in black.
But if that is the case, if the OP made something in CMYK
(or RGB for all I know), then it gets clear to me yes. But
he/she did not say that, so I assumed it was a spot color.
CMYK and Pantone differ. If you set up something in CMYK and
then decide to make it Pantone, you have to be aware of
slight color differences. If you deliver CMYK (like that
letterhead) to a printing office and tell them: I want this
color, they can only get as close as they can, or do a full
color print to do exactly what you want, dollars are
involved.
In these cases: use Pantone. And there is no need to hand it
over in black.
--
steg
Alexgirl
> a color, in CMYK, let us still take the green. That will
> work but costs a lot of unnecessary money. Agreed. The only
> thing the customer needs to know is the existence of Pantone
> colors. That is just it in this case.
>
> Answering your question: the printing office from the
> original poster should have told him to use Pantone. Not
> tell him to give it in black.
>
> But if that is the case, if the OP made something in CMYK
> (or RGB for all I know), then it gets clear to me yes. But
> he/she did not say that, so I assumed it was a spot color.
>
> CMYK and Pantone differ. If you set up something in CMYK and
> then decide to make it Pantone, you have to be aware of
> slight color differences. If you deliver CMYK (like that
> letterhead) to a printing office and tell them: I want this
> color, they can only get as close as they can, or do a full
> color print to do exactly what you want, dollars are
> involved.
> In these cases: use Pantone. And there is no need to hand it
> over in black.
> --
> steg
I don't know about printing CMYK, four colour process; all I know is
printing in Pantone. I don't do mags, flyers, posters. I do know that if I
give my printer a file that I want printed in 113 Pantone (pale yellow) and
especially if it contains gradients, I'd better give them that art in black
otherwise my 25% yellow is hardly gonna show at all unless I tell *them* to
convert it to black before they send it to film. And I'd also better know
that if I take that same file and decide I want it in 247 green, I'll
probably have to change that 25% gradient to something lighter like 15%.
However, if the file doesn't have gradients, I can use the same black file
and just tell them to print it in whatever colour I like and it'll turn out
just fine; if I have the file in 113 yellow, send it to them like that and
say print in 247 now, it's not gonna be rich at all. I've been told, in my
printing, that orange is one of the worst for "shifting" and NEVER EVER to
include it in my art. I work exclusively in pantone, but for me, it's used
only for approximate appearances and contrasts in previews in "working"
files, never finished "to-the-printer" files.
Alexgirl
the type of paper fed into the printer. Web presses accept only rolls of
paper, not sheet fed. And this is not digital printing, it's all to film
first. One film for each pantone colour needed. Technically, one could run
through the print job 8 times for 8 different colours, but long before that
point, I'd research another printing method. Seems to me registration would
start to get off after about 4 or 5; dunno though; never tried more than 4.
--
Alex
Remove me to reply.
"steggy" <stegg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F6C0F01...@cox.net...
steggy
I am truely amazed by this...........
You know what? I will send this to a guy ( in the
Netherlands), which whom I had a long good relationship.
Business wise (I the designer, he the printer) and in the
end more. But I tell you, I was engaged with many printing
offices, some of them huge professional corperations, some
of them not that professional, more Kinko like.
Never did I encounter these problems.
If I make a logo (in orange, why not orange???) I give that
file........they make a film out of it (or directly a plate)
and they print and it is always OK. In fact many times I
went over there to check the film (for right separations)!
No problem what so ever. And if there was a problem it was
my screw up.
Sorry guys I do not understand what this is about........I
am honest here.
--
steg
MSD
> I don't know about printing CMYK, four colour process; all I know is
> printing in Pantone. I don't do mags, flyers, posters. I do know that if I
> give my printer a file that I want printed in 113 Pantone (pale yellow) and
> especially if it contains gradients, I'd better give them that art in black
> otherwise my 25% yellow is hardly gonna show at all unless I tell *them* to
> convert it to black before they send it to film. And I'd also better know
> that if I take that same file and decide I want it in 247 green, I'll
> probably have to change that 25% gradient to something lighter like 15%.
> However, if the file doesn't have gradients, I can use the same black file
> and just tell them to print it in whatever colour I like and it'll turn out
> just fine; if I have the file in 113 yellow, send it to them like that and
> say print in 247 now, it's not gonna be rich at all. I've been told, in my
> printing, that orange is one of the worst for "shifting" and NEVER EVER to
> include it in my art. I work exclusively in pantone, but for me, it's used
> only for approximate appearances and contrasts in previews in "working"
> files, never finished "to-the-printer" files.
There is absolutely nothing incorrect about sending
spot color files to your prepress.
In fact it is rare for a prepress house to receive
black files for a spot color job.
(At least since pasteups went away)
You do not send 85y90c10k files and call them green, however.
Actually - all this talk about "green" might be where the problem is.
"Green" is an RGB color.
(It will screen when sent to a RIP)
If you are sending to a printer -
you would need to call that color "a PMS green".
Then it is a known color that can be built or set to spot status.
MSD
MSD
> As far as I know the term "web" press refers primarily if not exclusively to
> the type of paper fed into the printer. Web presses accept only rolls of
> paper, not sheet fed. And this is not digital printing, it's all to film
> first. One film for each pantone colour needed. Technically, one could run
> through the print job 8 times for 8 different colours, but long before that
> point, I'd research another printing method. Seems to me registration would
> start to get off after about 4 or 5; dunno though; never tried more than 4.
- Web can be digital.
- Web no longer requires film - it can be DTP.
- Generally the major stretch happens in the first unit or pass.
This is a good reason black is the first color down.
The pressman can see the trap in subseguent passes.
- I once ran a poster through a KORD (single unit)
14 passes before the poster was complete.
(Process - PMSs - double hits - various varnishes.
MSD
MSD
> I am truely amazed by this...........
>
> You know what? I will send this to a guy ( in the
> Netherlands), which whom I had a long good relationship.
> Business wise (I the designer, he the printer) and in the
> end more. But I tell you, I was engaged with many printing
> offices, some of them huge professional corperations, some
> of them not that professional, more Kinko like.
>
> Never did I encounter these problems.
>
> If I make a logo (in orange, why not orange???) I give that
> file........they make a film out of it (or directly a plate)
> and they print and it is always OK. In fact many times I
> went over there to check the film (for right separations)!
> No problem what so ever. And if there was a problem it was
> my screw up.
>
> Sorry guys I do not understand what this is about........I
> am honest here.
Yeah !! --what he said.
steggy
"Green" was just used as an example. Green is not a RGB
color per se, like you state yourself:)
--
steg
Alexgirl
answers. So far two have replied back that they indeed would prefer the
files to be sent in colour. Isn't it interesting that the one who told me to
send in black and never orange no longer has a valid email address????
--
Alex
Remove me to reply.
"MSD" <miked...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BB930F2C.C3BD%miked...@comcast.net...
steggy
There you go;)
steg
Steve W
I like one or two others here can't see the problem, especially when it's so
easy to work with spot colours in Illy. Therefore, if you want a final
finished print job in spot colours you create and sent the artwork in spot
colours, and likewise for CMYK.
The request from printers to "send the artwork in Black" is fine until you
require the use of two or even three spot colours in a job, then using their
system you would perhaps use Cyan to represent Spot Colour 1, Mag for Spot
Colour 2, etc. But these are 'only' the colours that you see on screen. The
final inks put on the press might be green, brown & purple. Mmmm, perhaps
not, but you get the idea.
So it's not even complicated, if the print job is black ink only, send
greyscale images, if it's spot colours, send spot colour artwork, and if
it's full colour, then send CMYK artwork.
90% of the artwork that we create and send to print uses two spot colours,
and it would be just too difficult on the eyes to try and proof the jobs on
screen if we were to substitute the spots with process colours.
So there you have it, black is black, white is white and the world keeps
spinning.
Steve
"steggy" <stegg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F6F5CAB...@cox.net...
steggy
steg