Se7en
Jennie Kermode
appreciate that it's funny, but please give a thought to all of us
little guys who need it to scrape a living. I did not appreciate having
to put in extra hours today, and neither will the clients whose projects
had to be put on hold. I especially don't appreciate Eye For Film
apparently disappearing from Facebook when my colleagues are away and
I'm already drowning in work trying to run the place by myself.
[2] Running Eye For Film would be much easier if writers got things in
on time and the bloody useless postal service didn't 'lose' review
discs. Still, twelve points to Erith for putting himself through another
action disaster on our behalf.
[3] If one works in a regular job and loses it, the benefits system is
there as a safety net. If one works for oneself and then a recession
makes the work disappear, one gets fuck all, because everything is based
on an assessment of the previous year's income. Cheers, government. This
is what I get for refusing to be put on incapacity benefit and give up
my right to work. Fortunately I have found some work now, but it's
minimum wage and it's fucking exhausting trying to do enough hours to
support two people. Yes, this is a somewhat ranty se7en... apologies...
[4] I am still trying to carve out some time for other projects,
including a forthcoming show at the Glasgow Museum of Modern Art about
LGBT disability issues. Cool project, good quality people, insufficient
funding but doubtless a good career move. There's a related 'zine in the
works too, which will be free in the Glasgow area (and can probably be
pilfered and sent out to interested netgoths elsewhere). I'm also
helping Stuart put together an exhibition for October, so am up to my
neck in art stuff. Oh, and I'm despairing of Wordpress and will build
proper websites for both as soon as I get time.
[5] On that note, my old @triffid website will be going out of service
forthwith; everything will now be at www.jenniekermode.com. It had to
happen sometime; maintaining two just doesn't make sense. So I'll need
to increase my efforts on marketing the new one, problems with my
former hosting service having trashed my google rankings. At least I'm
back on Rotten Tomatoes, who have finally recognised Eye For Film three
years after dropping me because I'd left the (much smaller and less well
maintained) Movie Gurus.
[6] I wouldn't mind so much about the government failing to support me
if they didn't keeping badgering me to do work for them (for free) too.
I'm up to my neck in consultation papers which I have no time to deal
with. Still, at least they do good lunches (these political expense
accounts can be handy things). The GOMA don't even provide biscuits! :o
[7] If any academics out there feel like lending a hand, I'm currently
striving to rally support for a university lecturer in England who is
facing the sack for showing the work of Del LaGrace Volcano to his
photography students. Del (examples of whose art can easily be found
online) is one of the premier photographers working on trans issues,
returning the gaze of those who have traditionally been objectified, and
the college in question have said some really stupid and offensive
things about this. Heads will roll, but not the lecturer's - not if I
have anything to do with it.
Jennie
--
Jennie Kermode
jen...@innocent.com
www.jenniekermode.com
Siobhan
Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> [7] If any academics out there feel like lending a hand, I'm currently
> striving to rally support for a university lecturer in England who is
> facing the sack for showing the work of Del LaGrace Volcano to his
> photography students. Del (examples of whose art can easily be found
> online) is one of the premier photographers working on trans issues,
> returning the gaze of those who have traditionally been objectified, and
> the college in question have said some really stupid and offensive
> things about this. Heads will roll, but not the lecturer's - not if I
> have anything to do with it.
Any thing that non-UK residents can do that are likely to be useful?
Siobhan
Kaos
Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[7] If any academics out there feel like lending a hand, I'm currently
>striving to rally support for a university lecturer in England who is
>facing the sack for showing the work of Del LaGrace Volcano to his
>photography students. Del (examples of whose art can easily be found
>online) is one of the premier photographers working on trans issues,
>returning the gaze of those who have traditionally been objectified, and
>the college in question have said some really stupid and offensive
>things about this.
The hell?
I have no words, but to echo Siobhans question.
Jennie Kermode
> The hell?
> I have no words, but to echo Siobhans question.
I'll email you both the details (if you need these to go to
accounts other than the ones you use here, drop me a line and let me
know - my email address is for real). Anyone else wants to know, drop me
a line too. I think it could actually be good to demonstrate that
there's international concern over this, though it's important that
letters of protest clearly come from educated people.
whisky-dave
"Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnh7mccn.8jd...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
> [1] Whoever broke the social networking bits of the internet,
weren't me 'onest
>
> [3] If one works in a regular job and loses it, the benefits system is
> there as a safety net. If one works for oneself and then a recession
> makes the work disappear, one gets fuck all, because everything is based
> on an assessment of the previous year's income.
Same thing if you have a mortgage, if you rent then you get some if not
all of your rent paid, but zero if you have a mortgage.
> [6] I wouldn't mind so much about the government failing to support me
> if they didn't keeping badgering me to do work for them (for free) too.
> I'm up to my neck in consultation papers which I have no time to deal
> with. Still, at least they do good lunches (these political expense
> accounts can be handy things). The GOMA don't even provide biscuits! :o
>
> [7] If any academics out there feel like lending a hand, I'm currently
> striving to rally support for a university lecturer in England who is
> facing the sack for showing the work of Del LaGrace Volcano to his
> photography students.
I didn't think academics could be sacked because they had security of
tenure.
I've noticed that those you want to leave you promote to get them out of the
way.
>Del (examples of whose art can easily be found
> online)
ignore the top link as that goes to dell computers. ;)
>is one of the premier photographers working on trans issues,
> returning the gaze of those who have traditionally been objectified, and
> the college in question have said some really stupid and offensive
> things about this.
it might not be the college, but a few individuals in the college that are
given
controls well beyond their skills or abilities.
I'm wondering whether or not to complain yet again about a Prof. parking on
the
yellow grid of a fire exit, I mean I don;t want to be seen as a piece of
shit on his shoe
when it comes to deciding who gets the shit jobs and who gets the upgrades.
;-)
>Heads will roll, but not the lecturer's - not if I
> have anything to do with it.
Even I believe some (even most) lecturer's are good.
Resistance is not always futile - seVen of three quaters of a dozen
Jennie Kermode
> Same thing if you have a mortgage, if you rent then you get some if not
> all of your rent paid, but zero if you have a mortgage.
So I'm told. I understand that people look at these things
differently, because contributing to paying off a mortgage can basically
involve giving the claimant extra money sie can keep, but it still seems
stupid given that it's often cheaper to pay mortgage installments than
it is to pay rent. When it comes to this sort of thing, I'm less worried
about exactly where my tax money ends up than about how much of it is
wasted.
> I didn't think academics could be sacked because they had security of
> tenure.
Not in every position, alas.
> it might not be the college, but a few individuals in the college that are
> given controls well beyond their skills or abilities.
That's true, but nevertheless the statements they've made
could potentially be very damaging for the college's reputation (for
that reason, I personally am not going to name it in public until
they've had change to back down). When one of my writers does something
stupid I have to bite the bullet and apologise because I should have
made sure they were all better trained, so, similarly, the senior
college officials must take responsibility for this.
> I'm wondering whether or not to complain yet again about a Prof. parking on
> the yellow grid of a fire exit
Time for a quiet word with Health & Safety?
~Fianna
"Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnh7o07g.827...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
> On 2009-08-07, Kaos <ka...@xplornet.com> wrote:
>> The hell?
>> I have no words, but to echo Siobhans question.
>
> I'll email you both the details (if you need these to go to
> accounts other than the ones you use here, drop me a line and let me
> know - my email address is for real). Anyone else wants to know, drop me
> a line too. I think it could actually be good to demonstrate that
> there's international concern over this, though it's important that
> letters of protest clearly come from educated people.
>
> Jennie
Shoot me the info, too. I'd be more than happy to demonstrate concern.
~Fi, email address should work.
Dark Phoenix
"Kaos" <ka...@xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:udln759drimd51eq9...@4ax.com...
I'm no academic or person with any power, but I have to say I'm curious. I
don't see anything offensive about Del's work, and I don't see how the
college can make a case for termination about a photography teacher showing
photography work. I haven't seen any of his work that was pornographic in
nature, so I echo 'The hell?"
--
Laurie Brown, Dark Phoenix
dark_p...@netw.com
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/103910/laurie_brown.html
"To destroy the Western tradition of independent thought, it is not
necessary to burn books. All we have to do is leave them unread for a couple
of generations."
--Robert Maynard Hutchens.
Jennie Kermode
> I'm no academic or person with any power, but I have to say I'm curious. I
> don't see anything offensive about Del's work, and I don't see how the
> college can make a case for termination about a photography teacher showing
> photography work. I haven't seen any of his work that was pornographic in
> nature, so I echo 'The hell?"
I don't know exactly what was shown, but some of Del's
pictures have naked flesh in them, which may well be enough for somebody
in the college to have panicked. They also feature occasional people in,
well, gothy clothes, which the uninitiated often take as a sign of taboo
sexuality. Aside from that I think it's the usual thing whereby trans
bodies are somehow considered more taboo than cisgendered ones, so that
some people come under stricter censure because of the way they were
born. The college used the word 'grotesque', which was not very clever
of them.
Just in case anyone's concerned, I should note that I got wind
of this through a private academic network and I know some of the people
involved personally, so it's not just some troll or media stunt.
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-07, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> Same thing if you have a mortgage, if you rent then you get some if not
>> all of your rent paid, but zero if you have a mortgage.
>
> So I'm told. I understand that people look at these things
> differently, because contributing to paying off a mortgage can basically
> involve giving the claimant extra money sie can keep, but it still seems
> stupid given that it's often cheaper to pay mortgage installments than
> it is to pay rent.
The bit that I find strange is that most rents are either to pay off the
landlords mortgage
or provide an income for those that already own the property.
Why only agree to pay of the landlords mortgage but not the persons mortgage
that is actually leaving there.
> When it comes to this sort of thing, I'm less worried
> about exactly where my tax money ends up than about how much of it is
> wasted.
There is a lot wasted.
>> it might not be the college, but a few individuals in the college that
>> are
>> given controls well beyond their skills or abilities.
>
> That's true, but nevertheless the statements they've made
> could potentially be very damaging for the college's reputation (for
> that reason, I personally am not going to name it in public until
> they've had change to back down).
I suppose it's worth giving them the chance, I've done a similar thing here,
but I just don't; think they;re worth the effort any more.
>When one of my writers does something
> stupid I have to bite the bullet and apologise because I should have
> made sure they were all better trained, so, similarly, the senior
> college officials must take responsibility for this.
All they'll do is make sure it never happens again after installing another
administartor
on a �40k salery, which will in turn improve the dept. research ratings.
>> I'm wondering whether or not to complain yet again about a Prof. parking
>> on
>> the yellow grid of a fire exit
>
> Time for a quiet word with Health & Safety?
No, been there done that, I even took a photo to prove it.
The last time I complained it was after 3 weeks of parking there almost
every day.
it was removed after an hour or so so sie must have been told.
Maybe this person has a short memory, but for some reason the car is back
again.
Even college security should realise that the car is illegally parked,
normally if it
were a student they'd clamp it.
I only bothered the last time because I was told I had been volunteered to
be a
fire marshal, and part of that job is to walk the fire exits to make sure
they are clear.
Now I've found out I can't be volunteered by someone else it has to be my
own decision
and presently there's no way I'm volunteering to do that job.
Peter Constantine
> I'm currently striving to rally support for a university lecturer in
> England who is facing the sack for showing the work of Del LaGrace
> Volcano to his photography students.
This sucks and I'm taking it as further evidence of the disturbing rise
of New Puritanism in the UK.
x
[Alton Towers today banned men from
wearing Speedos in its swimming pool]
Peter Constantine
> Same thing if you have a mortgage, if you rent then you get some if not
> all of your rent paid, but zero if you have a mortgage.
Not strictly true. If you claim Income Support or Job Seeker's
Allowance, the Benefits Agency will usually pay some (or all) of the
interest on a mortgage. You have to wait 8 weeks to get anything, for
the next 18 weeks after that you'll get half the interest on your
mortgage paid, after that interest will be paid in full (subject to a 5%
maximum interest rate and a max. mortgage of �100k)
x
[Disclaimer: figures quoted above may not be up to date]
Jennie Kermode
> This sucks and I'm taking it as further evidence of the disturbing rise
> of New Puritanism in the UK.
It's a trend which makes things difficult in the LGBT movement
because a lot of people want to go along with it to prove that we can be
"just like normal people". Hmm. I'm sure that's what most people tell
themselves and, not wanting to sound to extreme, that is how fascism
emerges.
> [Alton Towers today banned men from wearing Speedos in its swimming pool]
Is that true? But... I mean... As a former competitive
swimmer, I must note that speedos are functional garments, not just
things to pose in. One couldn't possibly achieve one's best performance
as a swimmer wearing shorts.
Peter H. Coffin
Seems to be.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/11/alton_towers/
Not that TheReg is a particularly credible news source for more than
tech. I'm not sure how much speed is involved in such an establishment
either.
--
10. I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum -- a small hotel
well outside my borders will work just as well.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-10, Peter Constantine <const...@xsublime.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> This sucks and I'm taking it as further evidence of the disturbing rise
>> of New Puritanism in the UK.
>
> It's a trend which makes things difficult in the LGBT movement
> because a lot of people want to go along with it to prove that we can be
> "just like normal people". Hmm. I'm sure that's what most people tell
> themselves and, not wanting to sound to extreme, that is how fascism
> emerges.
>
>> [Alton Towers today banned men from wearing Speedos in its swimming pool]
>
> Is that true? But...
http://www.comparecarrentals.co.uk/news/58027639.html
yep, seems like it, but only banned for men.
>I mean... As a former competitive
> swimmer, I must note that speedos are functional garments, not just
> things to pose in. One couldn't possibly achieve one's best performance
> as a swimmer wearing shorts.
Never been to alton towers myself, but I doubt many serious swimmers
i.e olympic hopefuls, will be practicing in public at A.T.
But I wonder if the new swimsuits that reduce drag are OK.
And how will that affect drag queens ;-)
Jennie Kermode
> Never been to alton towers myself, but I doubt many serious swimmers
> i.e olympic hopefuls, will be practicing in public at A.T.
That's true; it's just that once one is used to swimming in
proper attire, having to wear something that drags and moves all wrong
is really unpleasant. I'm also concerned that, in the present climate, a
ruling like this could easily spread.
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-11, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> Never been to alton towers myself, but I doubt many serious swimmers
>> i.e olympic hopefuls, will be practicing in public at A.T.
>
> That's true; it's just that once one is used to swimming in
> proper attire, having to wear something that drags and moves all wrong
> is really unpleasant.
>I'm also concerned that, in the present climate,
Climate change or global warming ;-)
> a
> ruling like this could easily spread.
I greee and I'm suprised it hasn;t already happened. A few months ago
I was in hyde park (during the day 5.45pm) and we were walking up to the
lido,
when one of the kids a 9 yearold girl asked to go swimming , her mum took
her and was a little perturbed by a few men posing in speedo type outfits
that
never actually entered the water, now from what I saw and I only saw people
comign in and out of the turnstyles to the changing rooms, the majority
were kids and their parents going for a swim, well I'd call it a dip
actually.
Not that I'd like to be the one to decide what should or shouldn't be worn
when near water. I even kept my bottle of tequila hidden in case anyone was
offended
by me drinking in public, I never even opened it or drank any while on the
tube.
But it was OK for someone to breast feed I noticed, but then again I don;t
see anything
wrong with topless sunbathing for either men or women and in an age of
equality.........
Now regarding olypmic events in swimming there is a problem with what should
be
allowed as some costumes are said to make you swim faster, so I'm not sure
what can be done
there, and again I'm glad it's not my decision, even though I could quite
easily make one.
Jennie Kermode
> "Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnh83ceb.8a6...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
> Climate change or global warming ;-)
Oh, a little of both, I fear.
>> ruling like this could easily spread.
> when one of the kids a 9 yearold girl asked to go swimming , her mum took
> her and was a little perturbed by a few men posing in speedo type outfits
> that never actually entered the water
I wouldn't be surprised if that happens, but is it really such
a big deal? I mean, there's a long tradition of young women doing the
same sort of thing in bikinis.
> Now regarding olypmic events in swimming there is a problem with what should
> be allowed as some costumes are said to make you swim faster, so I'm
> not sure what can be done there
These things change with the times. Practically every
improvement is banned at first, then comes to be accepted once a
sufficient mass of people are using it.
> and again I'm glad it's not my decision, even though I could quite
> easily make one.
Making decisions is always easy. It's making the right ones
that's the tricky bit. ;)
Peter H. Coffin
> On 2009-08-12, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>
>> "Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie
>> Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:slrnh83ceb.8a6...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>>I'm also concerned that, in the present climate,
>
>> Climate change or global warming ;-)
>
> Oh, a little of both, I fear.
>
>>> ruling like this could easily spread.
>
>> when one of the kids a 9 yearold girl asked to go swimming , her mum
>> took her and was a little perturbed by a few men posing in speedo
>> type outfits that never actually entered the water
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if that happens, but is it really
> such a big deal? I mean, there's a long tradition of young women doing
> the same sort of thing in bikinis.
Parents have driven themselves insane with fear of others. I'm sure that
no small number of them would feel that their kids are at some sort of
risk by being near men wearing speedos that they're at less of if those
same men were wearing bermuda shorts, or bathrobes. It's useless to
analyze it.
--
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases
to be serious when people laugh.
-- George Bernard Shaw
Peter Constantine
> I'm also concerned that, in the present climate, a ruling like this could
> easily spread.
I think the PR department at Alton Towers have a knack for seeding the
media with news stories during the summer 'silly season'. They have
previously had a lot of coverage with a guide to appropriate underwear
for women using the rides and the wearing of high heels by children
attemting to beat the height restrictions.
As Jennie says, if one of the UK's biggest tourist attractions says that
an environment can only be 'family friendly' or 'child safe' when the
male body is concealed by loose fitting fabric from waist to knee, then
this kind of ruling and attitude could easily spread.
I can't help wondering if the original management memo said "Make sure
we keep peedos out of the pool..." and a simple typo did the rest...
x
Kaos
Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 2009-08-12, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> "Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:slrnh83ceb.8a6...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
>>>I'm also concerned that, in the present climate,
>
>> Climate change or global warming ;-)
>
> Oh, a little of both, I fear.
>
>>> ruling like this could easily spread.
>
>> when one of the kids a 9 yearold girl asked to go swimming , her mum took
>> her and was a little perturbed by a few men posing in speedo type outfits
>> that never actually entered the water
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if that happens, but is it really such
>a big deal? I mean, there's a long tradition of young women doing the
>same sort of thing in bikinis.
There is a fairly common idea that speedos reveal That Which Males
Should Cover in a fair bit more detail than the average bikini does
for That Which Females Should Cover.
I don't have enough experience with speedos to say if the idea holds
up in general, though.
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-12, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> "Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:slrnh83ceb.8a6...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
>>>I'm also concerned that, in the present climate,
>
>> Climate change or global warming ;-)
>
> Oh, a little of both, I fear.
>
>>> ruling like this could easily spread.
>
>> when one of the kids a 9 yearold girl asked to go swimming , her mum
>> took
>> her and was a little perturbed by a few men posing in speedo type outfits
>> that never actually entered the water
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if that happens, but is it really such
> a big deal?
>I mean, there's a long tradition of young women doing the
> same sort of thing in bikinis.
I agree, but I got the impression that she was more concerned than usual
because these men appeared to be 'togerther' well hyde park does have a
tradition
but it doesn't happen until the sun starts setting from what I've heard
>
>> Now regarding olypmic events in swimming there is a problem with what
>> should
>> be allowed as some costumes are said to make you swim faster, so I'm
>> not sure what can be done there
>
> These things change with the times. Practically every
> improvement is banned at first, then comes to be accepted once a
> sufficient mass of people are using it.
well they need to decide on something, it'll soon be 2012, but it's always a
difficult thing
even more so in some sports than others.
>
>> and again I'm glad it's not my decision, even though I could quite
>> easily make one.
>
> Making decisions is always easy. It's making the right ones
> that's the tricky bit. ;)
Of course the best way of resolving it is to say you must swim naked.
Not a practical way of course.
whisky-dave
"Peter Constantine" <const...@xsublime.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1j4crx9.1w7mx1rypqpoeN%const...@xsublime.demon.co.uk...
> Jennie Kermode wrote:
>
>> I'm also concerned that, in the present climate, a ruling like this could
>> easily spread.
>
> I think the PR department at Alton Towers have a knack for seeding the
> media with news stories during the summer 'silly season'. They have
> previously had a lot of coverage with a guide to appropriate underwear
> for women using the rides and the wearing of high heels by children
> attemting to beat the height restrictions.
Perhaps it's free publicity that they are after.
>
> As Jennie says, if one of the UK's biggest tourist attractions says that
> an environment can only be 'family friendly' or 'child safe' when the
> male body is concealed by loose fitting fabric from waist to knee, then
> this kind of ruling and attitude could easily spread.
Maybe they should hire out those trust-me-trousers. [1]
>
> I can't help wondering if the original management memo said "Make sure
> we keep peedos out of the pool..." and a simple typo did the rest...
That'd be great if it was true.
-----------------------
> http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=867309
I went to Del LaGrace Volcano site and was really disapointed,
I've seen more 'porn' in a shower gel ad on TV. ! :)
[1] Chris Morris's programme about paedophilia, the trousers were designed
to hide
the male errection so they could watch children without being noticed.
Jennie Kermode
> As Jennie says, if one of the UK's biggest tourist attractions says that
> an environment can only be 'family friendly' or 'child safe' when the
> male body is concealed by loose fitting fabric from waist to knee, then
> this kind of ruling and attitude could easily spread.
It is interesting that this should, um, arise, at a time when
senior politicians are arguing that it's terrible that anyone should
suggest female bodies ought to be concealed by loose-fitting clothing...
Peter H. Coffin
> Of course the best way of resolving it is to say you must swim naked.
> Not a practical way of course.
If swimming naked isn't practical, one needs a wetsuit anyway.
--
35. I will not grow a goatee. In the old days they made you look diabolic.
Now they just make you look like a disaffected member of Generation X.
Peter Constantine
> It is interesting that this should, um, arise, at a time when
> senior politicians are arguing that it's terrible that anyone should
> suggest female bodies ought to be concealed by loose-fitting clothing...
Yes... whilst the UK grapples with men in Speedos, in France they are
tackling the 'burkini' issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm
x
Jennie Kermode
> Yes... whilst the UK grapples with men in Speedos, in France they are
> tackling the 'burkini' issue:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm
It just seemed to me that this is going to result in even less
physical exercise in a group which already has a statistically high
level of health problems associated with insufficient exercise. Also, I
wonder how people in France are going to learn life saving skills if
'swimming in clothing' is banned as has been suggested. I used to train
in jeans and a shirt, given that that was what I was likely to be
wearing if I ever had to leap into the water at short notice to save
somebody.
whisky-dave
"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in message
news:slrnh8839a....@abyss.ninehells.com...
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:28:59 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
>> Of course the best way of resolving it is to say you must swim naked.
>> Not a practical way of course.
>
> If swimming naked isn't practical, one needs a wetsuit anyway.
Well it's not practical as I see it because I doubt most swimmers even those
in speedo's might not want to stand completely[1] naked at the start of the
race.
But of course swimmers may wish to have their hair off to reduce drag,
men might choose to cut off their genitals to reduce drag and women might
have breast reducion or removal for the same reasons.
All in all this would be great for equality, then we wouldn't need separate
races for men and women and we'll finally achieve true equality!. :)
[1] was goign to say stark bollock naked, but wouldn't want to offend
certain genders
that might not have them yet, or indeed want them removed.
Oh and then there's those religions were complete body coverage is required,
so you don;t know if they are even the person in their own passport.
whisky-dave
> Jennie wrote:
>
>> It is interesting that this should, um, arise, at a time when
>> senior politicians are arguing that it's terrible that anyone should
>> suggest female bodies ought to be concealed by loose-fitting clothing...
>
> Yes... whilst the UK grapples with men in Speedos,
There's nothing quite like grappling with men in speedo's is there, or so
I'm told :-0
> in France they are
> tackling the 'burkini' issue:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm
"I will fight to try to change things. And if I see that the battle is lost,
I cannot rule out leaving France."
You know what I'd feel the same way about drinking alcohol in public in
Dubi.
Peter H. Coffin
>
> "Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnh8839a....@abyss.ninehells.com...
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:28:59 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:
>>> Of course the best way of resolving it is to say you must swim naked.
>>> Not a practical way of course.
>>
>> If swimming naked isn't practical, one needs a wetsuit anyway.
>
> Well it's not practical as I see it because I doubt most swimmers even those
> in speedo's might not want to stand completely[1] naked at the start of the
> race.
> But of course swimmers may wish to have their hair off to reduce drag,
> men might choose to cut off their genitals to reduce drag and women might
> have breast reducion or removal for the same reasons.
> All in all this would be great for equality, then we wouldn't need separate
> races for men and women and we'll finally achieve true equality!. :)
There's also wetsuits that are WAY slipperier skin in water than shaved
skin. Neck-to-elbow and -knee covering would save a bunch of drag. Of
course, they won't be legal for competition until everybody has them...
--
"HTML's a cheap whore. Treating her with respect is possible, and even
preferable, because once upon a time she was a beautiful and virginal
format, but you shouldn't expect too much of her at this point." --M"K"H
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-13, Peter Constantine <const...@xsublime.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Yes... whilst the UK grapples with men in Speedos, in France they are
>> tackling the 'burkini' issue:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm
>
> It just seemed to me that this is going to result in even less
> physical exercise in a group which already has a statistically high
> level of health problems associated with insufficient exercise. Also, I
> wonder how people in France are going to learn life saving skills if
> 'swimming in clothing' is banned as has been suggested.
I don;t think English ;-) swimming pools allow clothes to be worn either,
it's understandable really. You really wouldn't want people swimming in DMs
or any footwear
where they may have just trod in dogs shit or anything else from the
street.
>I used to train
> in jeans and a shirt, given that that was what I was likely to be
> wearing if I ever had to leap into the water at short notice to save
> somebody.
Swimming pools also train scuba divers too but it's rare for them to share
the same
pool at the same time. Also I know of one pool that has a time for only
'transgendered'
people and thier friends, and they are allowed to wear or indeed not wear
anything
they choose, including long flowing dresses, I was asked if I wanted to go,
but I'd
be worried that my long leather coat might get sucked up in the filtering
system
closely followed by me, so I declined. But then again I'm prepared to wear
suitable swimwear
but I wouldn't mind taking a kebab and some whisky in with me, perhaps I
should
consider campaigning against my local pool as they don't allow food stuffs
to be taken in to
the pool area.
Jennie Kermode
> Oh and then there's those religions were complete body coverage is required,
> so you don;t know if they are even the person in their own passport.
This is a common misnomer. There is no religion which requires
people to hide themselves completely; there are only religions which
require women to hide their faces from men. It's simple enough for such
a woman to show her face to a female passport official.
Panurge
> As a former competitive
> swimmer, I must note that speedos are functional garments, not just
> things to pose in. One couldn't possibly achieve one's best performance
> as a swimmer wearing shorts.
Doesn't matter. You see, that's the real reason for the new,
"high-tech" swimsuits--they *cover more*. For some reason, we're all
(well, not *me*) trained to view the male body with outright horror
these days.
But I suppose Alton Towers isn't a competitive venue, so they can do
that.
--
"He who wishes to go beyond it must die."
--Arnold Schoenberg, on Gustav Mahler's Ninth Symphony
Panurge
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm
What nobody in the news business seems to acknowledge is that the issue
here is a fight between the government and institutional Islam over
exactly which of these institutions has the right to dictate to women
what they shall wear. The idea that *neither one* ought to have this
right just doesn't come up. Sarkozy is right about the burqa, but
banning it doesn't solve the problem--it just makes women subservient to
the State instead of the Mosque.
Panurge
> ...there's a long tradition of young women doing the
> same sort of thing in bikinis.
Yes, but for some reason things are different when it comes to men.
There's long been an effort to desexualize men, or else cast male
sexuality entirely and exclusively in terms of an extremely traditional
(i.e., before the '60s) idea of the masculine. Speedos are taken to
mean "oversexed" or "gay", which I can understand, but still, why do
women get a pass? (Probably because that's what men like, while if
women like men in dude-bikinis they're much less likely to say so for
some reason.)
Panurge
> But of course swimmers may wish to have their hair off to reduce drag,
Or they could wear swimming caps and keep their hair (well, the hair on
their heads). But that doesn't happen. Why not? Here we go with The
Program again...
Panurge
> Parents have driven themselves insane with fear of others.
Thank you for encapsulating most of the social situation in the West in
one sentence.
Panurge
Oh, one more thing: If men wearing Speedos are perverts and pedophiles,
and men wearing Bermuda shorts are not, and then all men are forced to
wear Bermuda shorts, *how will parents know which men are the perverts
and pedophiles*?
And Thing #3: "Alton Towers, the UK's biggest tourist attraction, has
balked at the corrupting spectacle of men in skimpy swimming trunks, and
has threatened offenders with compulsory bikini line waxing."
Shouldn't this have been printed on April 1?
Panurge
> There is a fairly common idea that speedos reveal That Which Males
> Should Cover in a fair bit more detail than the average bikini does
> for That Which Females Should Cover.
That's why they invented liners. (That said, I own a couple that lack
liners.)
> I don't have enough experience with speedos to say if the idea holds
> up in general, though.
Well, it can under the right circumstances, I suppose. But then
sometimes you can see a bit of What Females Should Cover "under the
right circumstances".
Siobhan
> constant...@xsublime.demon.co.uk (Peter Constantine) wrote:
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8197917.stm
>
> What nobody in the news business seems to acknowledge is that the issue
> here is a fight between the government and institutional Islam over
> exactly which of these institutions has the right to dictate to women
> what they shall wear. The idea that *neither one* ought to have this
> right just doesn't come up. Sarkozy is right about the burqa, but
> banning it doesn't solve the problem--it just makes women subservient to
> the State instead of the Mosque.
Everybody knows that social pressure is the only thing that should
have the right to dictate what women wear.
Siobhan
not that I'm snarky or anything
Peter H. Coffin
> "Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>
>> Parents have driven themselves insane with fear of others.
>
> Thank you for encapsulating most of the social situation in the West in
> one sentence.
You're welcome. I *do* try, after all...
--
Don't use this code for realtime control, for weapons systems, or for
anything else that may put life or limb at hazard. It isn't man-rated,
it isn't really thing-rated, and we don't claim that it's worth a good
G*dDamn for anything at all, at all.
-- Mike Andrews, on Java compilers
Jennie Kermode
> What nobody in the news business seems to acknowledge is that the issue
> here is a fight between the government and institutional Islam over
> exactly which of these institutions has the right to dictate to women
> what they shall wear.
Absolutely. There is one Muslim woman MP in the UK - a
Conservative, as it happens - who has been trying very hard to get this
point across, but she generally gets drowned out by white male voices
speaking 'in her best interests'.
Jennie Kermode
>> But of course swimmers may wish to have their hair off to reduce drag,
> Or they could wear swimming caps and keep their hair (well, the hair on
> their heads). But that doesn't happen. Why not? Here we go with The
> Program again...
It's nothing to do with politics. Hair means extra weight. One
or two swimmers choose to make that sacrifice, but most are more
interested in the competitive advantage, as I was when I swam at that
level. Trust me, when a skilled tries to race with a full head of hair,
sie can really feel it.
`una
I thought it would be.
2) I am so much cuter than I thought I was.
3) Getting used to seeing my own body has made letting go of
old body image baggage insanely simply, though not at all easy.
4) Finally having a story half-completed is a major triumph after years
of not being able to get past the second page.
5) Being a fully certified Independent Provider, contracted by the state,
is much simpler than working through an agency. Who knew?
6) I have most of my papers in order to apply for school so that
I can attend in the Fall of 2010, assuming I can get funding.
7) Spending my birthday in Salt Lake City to see if I want to live there.
`una - getting ready to fly again
Korin
> "Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, one more thing: If men wearing Speedos are perverts and pedophiles,
> and men wearing Bermuda shorts are not, and then all men are forced to
> wear Bermuda shorts, *how will parents know which men are the perverts
> and pedophiles*?
>
> And Thing #3: "Alton Towers, the UK's biggest tourist attraction, has
> balked at the corrupting spectacle of men in skimpy swimming trunks, and
> has threatened offenders with compulsory bikini line waxing."
It'd be interesting to see whether they actually followed through on
that threat. Just to test it, try and get as many people as possible to
queue up for this waxing. The look on the face of whatever poor sod has
to do it would be excellent. :)
Korin
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-14, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> Oh and then there's those religions were complete body coverage is
>> required,
>> so you don;t know if they are even the person in their own passport.
>
> This is a common misnomer. There is no religion which requires
> people to hide themselves completely; there are only religions which
> require women to hide their faces from men. It's simple enough for such
> a woman to show her face to a female passport official.
But there was and are no such officials at driving schools where my friend
worked as
an instructor and then an examiner.
whisky-dave
yes, Duncan Goodhew made a great sacrific ;-)
whisky-dave
> On 2009-08-15, Panurge <pan...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> What nobody in the news business seems to acknowledge is that the issue
>> here is a fight between the government and institutional Islam over
>> exactly which of these institutions has the right to dictate to women
>> what they shall wear.
>
> Absolutely. There is one Muslim woman MP in the UK - a
> Conservative, as it happens - who has been trying very hard to get this
> point across, but she generally gets drowned out by white male voices
> speaking 'in her best interests'.
>
Agreed, and they earn bloody good money at it too, why do you think they do
this.
Oh you don;t happen to know where I can buy shares in companies making
burkinis do you, it's just that I had a strange dream just before becoming
concious this morning, and that was that burkinis type costumes would become
the
only costumes to be allowed in some *English* swimming pools.
Kaos
wrote:
>Kaos <ka...@xplornet.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a fairly common idea that speedos reveal That Which Males
>> Should Cover in a fair bit more detail than the average bikini does
>> for That Which Females Should Cover.
>
>That's why they invented liners. (That said, I own a couple that lack
>liners.)
>
>> I don't have enough experience with speedos to say if the idea holds
>> up in general, though.
>
>Well, it can under the right circumstances, I suppose. But then
>sometimes you can see a bit of What Females Should Cover "under the
>right circumstances".
Camel-toe is either hot or squicky. Nonconsensual penis is so
terrifying and traumatic that even it's mere outline is sufficient to
invoke histeria.
Peter Constantine
> Camel-toe is either hot or squicky. Nonconsensual penis is so
> terrifying and traumatic that even it's mere outline is sufficient to
> invoke histeria.
It appears that at Alton Towers the issue might be visible pubic hair
rather than tightly packaged meat n' two veg.
x
Panurge
Interesting that you'd put it that way. I'd think that conventional
wisdom would be that *cutting* the hair would be the "sacrifice"
(something you'd rather not do otherwise, but do for the "greater" good
of winning) while the swimming cap would be a result of "trying to have
it both ways". I remember a commercial from years ago (can't even
remember what it was for) that showed a man clipping off his (fairly
long) hair down to a buzzcut, photographed in that luxuriantly grungy
way--soft focus, washed-out colors, slightly shaky camera--that's fairly
popular today. It was entirely made up of close-ups (mostly head
shots), but you can tell he's got no shirt on and in the last shot he's
wearing swimming goggles. Plainly (beyond the usual "Get a haircut, you
damn hippie" message), it's about the necessity of sacrifice.
Jennie Kermode
> Interesting that you'd put it that way. I'd think that conventional
> wisdom would be that *cutting* the hair would be the "sacrifice"
> (something you'd rather not do otherwise, but do for the "greater" good
> of winning)
Um, that's what I meant. Sorry if I wasn'r clear enough.
> while the swimming cap would be a result of "trying to have
> it both ways".
All swimming caps do is to prevent long hair tangling round
one's arms and face, and give it a bit of protection from chlorine.
They're fuck all use for improving speed.
Panurge
> I used to train
> in jeans and a shirt, given that that was what I was likely to be
> wearing if I ever had to leap into the water at short notice to save
> somebody.
The Boy Scout Lifesaving merit badge manual, IIRC, has detailed
instructions on how to remove your clothing when that happens. Still,
it's a good move, because (as the book itself says) you might not have
the time to do it.
(But definitely take off your shoes.)
Jennie Kermode
organisations, corrupt property developers and worryingly young
celebrities. Why don't I get paid more?
[2] Launch of Glasgay tonight. Scandals brewing and I have to decide
which way to jump. I think, for once, I am going to try and settle a
fight rather than starting one.
[3] I shall not publish when drunk. I shall not publish when drunk. I
shall not publish when drunk. (Listening to 'Robert De Niro's Waiting'
is a good indication that I have had enough.)
[4] An interesting invitation to publish in Sexuality and Culture.
Really should take it up; wish I had more time to develop something
interesting. If I work hard, though, I can have an hour or two to myself
come Monday.
[5] My friend who is getting married on Saturday is experiencing the
usual nerves. Meanwhile, I'm experiencing the usual nerves about
attending. Alien culture and all that. I shall, of course - she's very
dear to me - I just hope it's not a whole day of holding my breath.
[6] Facething is much less unpleasant now that I have figured out how
to turn most of it off, making it more like a newsgroup. Wish I could
feed it through slrn, though. Meeting old school acquaintances there
makes me more glad than ever that I got the hell out of the place where
I grew up.
[7] Having a new flatmate is excellent, and all the more so because she
has two wee baby rats, whom I am very much looking forward to meeting.
Lots to do to finish fixing up the house, but at least we are making
progress now. :)
Peter H. Coffin
> [6] Facething is much less unpleasant now that I have figured out how
> to turn most of it off, making it more like a newsgroup. Wish I could
> feed it through slrn, though. Meeting old school acquaintances there
> makes me more glad than ever that I got the hell out of the place where
> I grew up.
The alternative is to bring them screaming back to USENET. Protests of
"But USENET is dead!" should be met with either "Because you LEFT" or
"So is LiveJournal and MySpace. Do you think Facething is long for the
world?" as appropriate.
--
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases
to be serious when people laugh.
-- George Bernard Shaw
moonglow minnow
> [7] Having a new flatmate is excellent, and all the more so because she
> has two wee baby rats, whom I am very much looking forward to meeting.
> Lots to do to finish fixing up the house, but at least we are making
> progress now. :)
I always love hearing about rats. Would you be so kind as to introduce
them here once you've met them?
Maeve >^..^<
--
http://moonglowminnow.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/
Jennie Kermode
> I always love hearing about rats. Would you be so kind as to introduce
> them here once you've met them?
I finally got to meet them yesterday. They're called Oreo and
Guinness, based on their colouration, and they're apparently onlyeight
or nine months old, but they're bigger than my Charlotte ever got.
They're still going through that awkward adolescent stage, building up
confidence and learning to assert themselves. The flatmate says that
things are trickier because they don't seem to have been handled much
whilst they were living with her ex, but they're basically friendly and
not at all bitey. Oreo is the adventurous one; Guinness is shy but seems
willing to try things once she's proven that they're safe. I don't know
how much I'll see of them, as they're living in the flatmate's room, but
I've assured her that she's welcome to take kitchen scraps, nuts and
seeds etc. for them.
Siobhan
Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[5] My friend who is getting married on Saturday is experiencing the
>usual nerves. Meanwhile, I'm experiencing the usual nerves about
>attending. Alien culture and all that. I shall, of course - she's very
>dear to me - I just hope it's not a whole day of holding my breath.
Axel & I are thinking about getting drunk and getting hitched by
Elvis.
This is a secret. Mostly because the first time somebody says the
words "shower" or "flower arrangement" to me I shall run screaming
into the night.
Siobhan
Satori
That's essentially what ~Fi and I ended up doing. We were sober and
there was no Elvis. But after trying to set up a Big Expensive Wedding
with a reception in a ballroom and yada yada, and then my parents being
completely uncooperative about it and bitching about the details, we
said fuck it, and got married at a Vegas wedding chapel with two friends
and my mom as witnesses.
And of course, if you guys want to come to Vegas and get hitched by
Elvis, we'll likely know a good bar nearby to get good and drunk at. :)
kest
W000000!!! (How do you feel about 'bachelorette party' and 'guest list'?)
k
~Fianna
"Siobhan" <ne...@virulent.org> wrote in message
news:cl42b5du3bo5pt89c...@4ax.com...
You both know where the best Elvis impersonators are, right...
~Fi, best. party. ever.
Kaos
Is 'bacehlorette party' a safe word?
Siobhan
<ke...@removethedamnspamtrap.nettrip.org> wrote:
>Siobhan wrote:
>> This is a secret. Mostly because the first time somebody says the
>> words "shower" or "flower arrangement" to me I shall run screaming
>> into the night.
>
>W000000!!! (How do you feel about 'bachelorette party' and 'guest list'?)
The word "party" is more than acceptable. "Bachelorette" makes me
squirm. "Guest list" sounds like something that rock stars do.
One of my big reservations about the whole deal is that for so many
people a wedding defines a change of state and I don't think that's
true for us. We already *have* the important bits. The wedding is an
excuse for a big dumb party with our friends. (And of course, to make
C16 All About Us.)
Siobhan
Siobhan
>> This is a secret. Mostly because the first time somebody says the
>> words "shower" or "flower arrangement" to me I shall run screaming
>> into the night.
>
>You both know where the best Elvis impersonators are, right...
Less than a half day's drive from C16.
Coincidence?
Siobhan
~Fianna
Hmmm...
*grin*
That could be so. very. fun.
~Fi, almost makes being in Vegas another damn year worth it.
The Exiled, V.2
> to turn most of it off, making it more like a newsgroup. Wish I could
> feed it through slrn, though. Meeting old school acquaintances there
> makes me more glad than ever that I got the hell out of the place where
> I grew up.
Dear Christ Almighty, could you send me an e-mail on how to do that?
Facebook is all right, I guess, but I would certainly enjoy it more if
it more closely resembled here.
--
---
Regards,
The Exiled, V.2
“You are a lawyer, you ought to know the correlation of facts; you
ought to know that two and two make four, not sometimes but all the
time.”
- Professor Augustus S. F. X. Van Dusen, The 'Thinking Machine'
`una
> > [6] Facething is much less unpleasant now that I have figured out how
> > to turn most of it off, making it more like a newsgroup. Wish I could
> > feed it through slrn, though. Meeting old school acquaintances there
> > makes me more glad than ever that I got the hell out of the place where
> > I grew up.
>
> Dear Christ Almighty, could you send me an e-mail on how to do that?
> Facebook is all right, I guess, but I would certainly enjoy it more if
> it more closely resembled here.
You better forward it to me. I hate Facebook with a powerful will.
`una - too prolific for Twitter
TenshiKurai9
> You better forward it to me. I hate Facebook with a powerful will.
>
> `una - too prolific for Twitter
So how sick do you feel if someone even mentions MySpace? Do you feel
like you've gotten spleen cancer?
-TenshiKurai9
`una
> On 2009-11-27, `una wrote:
> > You better forward it to me. I hate Facebook with a powerful will.
> >
> > `una - too prolific for Twitter
>
> So how sick do you feel if someone even mentions MySpace? Do you feel
> like you've gotten spleen cancer?
I would have to care to feel. I don't.
If all of my friends hadn't migrated to Facebook, I still wouldn't know
what it is. Mostly, it seems to be a collection of pointless groups
and pointless games that are somehow supposed to make people feel
more connected while actually making them less connected than they
were before.
`una - disconnected
whisky-dave
"`una" <una...@nettrip.org> wrote in message
news:umebu6-...@abyss.ninehells.com...
It's a really an easy place for target advertising, a good marketing
stratagy as
you can filter things quite easily or just bore everyone with the same ads.
Tetsab
> Facebook is all right, I guess, but I would certainly enjoy it more if
> it more closely resembled here.
I'd be very interested in getting Compare 'n' Contrast style comments
from Facebook users on Regular Facebook vs. http://lite.facebook.com/
[I've avoided signing up for an account for various reasons, but a
biggie is that I'm still on dial-up and perceive that regular Facebook
is a big ole lard-ass of a site].
T.
The Exiled, V.2
> If all of my friends hadn't migrated to Facebook, I still wouldn't know
> what it is. Mostly, it seems to be a collection of pointless groups
> and pointless games that are somehow supposed to make people feel
> more connected while actually making them less connected than they
> were before.
I like the games because I'm a compulsive game player. They provide neat
little things for me to win at. Also, I'm easily bored at work.
Otherwise, it does keep me in touch with people who (like me) do not
post long journal entries on a regular basis. I just suck at keeping a
regular journal.
The Exiled, V.2
> I'd be very interested in getting Compare 'n' Contrast style comments
> from Facebook users on Regular Facebook vs. http://lite.facebook.com/
Oooo. I'll let you know.
`una
> I like the games because I'm a compulsive game player. They provide neat
> little things for me to win at. Also, I'm easily bored at work.
> Otherwise, it does keep me in touch with people who (like me) do not
> post long journal entries on a regular basis. I just suck at keeping a
> regular journal.
Yeah, yeah. Reading and writing are dead arts.
Not going to stop me going on like a novelist.
`una - still manages to build small fan followings on the internet
TenshiKurai9
> TenshiKurai9 wrote:
>
>> On 2009-11-27, `una wrote:
>> > You better forward it to me. I hate Facebook with a powerful will.
>> >
>> > `una - too prolific for Twitter
>>
>> So how sick do you feel if someone even mentions MySpace? Do you feel
>> like you've gotten spleen cancer?
>
> I would have to care to feel. I don't.
Good. It helps avoid spleen cancer. (I just really like using oonh's
way of referring to MySpace as spleen cancer.)
> If all of my friends hadn't migrated to Facebook, I still wouldn't know
> what it is. Mostly, it seems to be a collection of pointless groups
> and pointless games that are somehow supposed to make people feel
> more connected while actually making them less connected than they
> were before.
Frankly my primary usage is to RSVP yes, no, or maybe to events.
> `una - disconnected
-TenshiKurai9, sporadically feels connections.