Cabal decision [was: C14 bids: committees jumping the gun]
Siobhan
The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
Specifically the rule stating that promotion starts upon the close of
the submission period.
I'm pretty sure that *all* of the previous Convergence proposal
committees (including ones that I've been a part of) started off with
people sitting around the real or virtual pub saying "Wouldn't it be
cool if we could pull this off." However, the difference between that
and having a membership on a networking site with 400+ friends is
large enough that we feel safe in decreeing the latter as Taking The
Piss and eliminating bids those bids from the upcoming vote.
Those bids have had their access to their official bid sites frozen,
and will not appear on the ballot.
Siobhan
</takes off black uniform>
Bob Terwilliger
Of course, there's nothing stopping the organizers from putting on a
net-goth-focused event ANYWAY. It just won't be Convergence -- or maybe
they'll call it Convergence until a restraining order is served, or they'll
use some bastardized similar-sounding name (in the manner of the sleazy
travesty calling itself the "Gothic Cruise.")
Bob
Jacquehammer
> The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
> prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
> Those bids have had their access to their official bid sites frozen,
> and will not appear on the ballot.
>
> Siobhan
On Apr 21, 5:03 pm, Siobhan <n...@virulent.org> wrote:
> The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
> prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
> Those bids have had their access to their official bid sites frozen,
> and will not appear on the ballot.
>
> Siobhan
I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
BBQ anyone?
Although there is still Boo's Pants.
~Fianna
> I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
> BBQ anyone?
Or a way to keep the process level for future committees.
> Although there is still Boo's Pants.
That's always an option.
~Fi
Satori
"~Fianna" <ka...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:yMAWh.241416$7g3.1...@newsfe14.phx...
Wasn't someone supposed to put in a bid for Siani's Cavernous Vagina, this
year? Guess that'll hafta wait for C15...
Axel
wrote:
>I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
>BBQ anyone?
& who's sockpuppet are you sweetheart?
--
Axel
<ax...@eol.ca>
Siobhan
>> The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
>> prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
>
>> Those bids have had their access to their official bid sites frozen,
>> and will not appear on the ballot.
>
Or to proposals who follow the rules.
Siobhan
Jacquehammer
> On 21 Apr 2007 20:24:42 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
> >BBQ anyone?
>
> & who's sockpuppet are you sweetheart?
>
> --
> Axel
Just a casual observer. And it's meatpuppet, sweetheart.
Seriously, I think it's brilliant: If the cabal's style of Convergence
can't win in a straight out vote, simply find any old reason to
disqualify the opposing bids. Perfect.
I'd be interested in seeing the rule you're talking about that makes
it explicit that bid proposals can't be posted in outside forums prior
to discussion period dates. Is there a link where I can check it out?
I've been to altgothic.com, read the rules, didn't see what you're
talking about.
FYI, I'll assume for a moment there is a chance that this is all
perfectly innocent - if you step outside your own POV for a moment,
and admit it might look a little bit like the cabal is manipulating
the system. After all, who's left? Ybor, FL? Funny, the proposal looks
kinda' like Mac's BBQ Redux Part 2 woo-Hoo! to me.
JH
Troia
I was thinking how much utter *love* you'd get from people after being
the one to post that!
So do you get to carry the extra title of "scapegoat" or is it just assumed?
-- Troia
Jennie Kermode
> The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
> prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
I'd just like to note that I wholeheartedly agree with this
decision and am glad to see Convergence adhering to a fair set of rules
rather than letting them be bent until the whole thing is meaningless.
Jennie
--
Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
Jacquehammer
Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
influence voters one bit, except maybe toward each other. If they were
allowed to run their campaigns, and Ybor lost, it would be because the
voters rejected it, just like they rejected Detroit's silly anti-bid
last year. Clearly the only way for Ybor to win is by appealing to the
only authority able to clear the playing field. Kudos to the Ybor team
for their accomplishment.
JH
Dr. Frank N. Furter
> On Apr 22, 3:32 am, Jennie Kermode <"Jennie
>
> Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 2007-04-22, Siobhan <n...@virulent.org> wrote:
> > I'd just like to note that I wholeheartedly agree with this
> > decision and am glad to see Convergence adhering to a fair set of rules
> > rather than letting them be bent until the whole thing is meaningless.
>
> The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
> the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
> disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
> These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
> influence voters one bit, except maybe toward each other. If they were
> allowed to run their campaigns, and Ybor lost, it would be because the
> voters rejected it, just like they rejected Detroit's silly anti-bid
> last year. Clearly the only way for Ybor to win is by appealing to the
> only authority able to clear the playing field. Kudos to the Ybor team
> for their accomplishment.
Oh, bullshit.
On the c12 committee, we knew exactly when we could go online with our
bid. Why? Because we read the rules and made sure to follow them. I
do not speak for anyone else on that committee - others have already
publicly disagreed with me - but: goth, please.
I'm as unimpressed by Ybor City's bid as anyone. Tampa is a dismal,
cultureless place with little to recommend it (in that respect,
though, it's far outdone by L.A. and Dallas). I'm even more
unimpressed by committees that just couldn't keep it in their pants.
If you believe that Siobhan does anything about Convergence for
unprincipled reasons, you are either dreaming or delusional.
- Dr. Frank N. Furter
- A Scientist
Bob Terwilliger
> The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
> the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
> disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
> These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
> influence voters one bit, except maybe toward each other. If they were
> allowed to run their campaigns, and Ybor lost, it would be because the
> voters rejected it, just like they rejected Detroit's silly anti-bid
> last year. Clearly the only way for Ybor to win is by appealing to the
> only authority able to clear the playing field. Kudos to the Ybor team
> for their accomplishment.
I'm a bit curious: What do you hope to accomplish with your campaign of
complaints? You don't expect your favorite bid to be reinstated to the
ballot, do you? Are you just crying over spilt milk, or are you actively
working to degrade whatever Convergence *does* come about?
For the sake of argument, let's pretend that the C*b*l truly made the wrong
decision. What good is done by attacking the Ybor City team? How will that
improve C14 in any way? Why not make the best of the situation, and SUPPORT
the Ybor City event? Won't that lead to the best Convergence possible under
the circumstances?
Take a look at the reality of the situation, rather than what you think the
situation SHOULD be, or what you WISH the situation were, and then move
forward as any rational adult would. And ferchrissake, shed the masquerade:
No newbie to alt.gothic would have the emotional investment that you
obviously have, so just drop the sockpuppet.
Bob
H Duffy
"Bob Terwilliger" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote in message
news:462b4a59$0$37510$bb4e...@newscene.com...
> Take a look at the reality of the situation, rather than what you think
> the
> situation SHOULD be, or what you WISH the situation were, and then move
> forward as any rational adult would. And ferchrissake, shed the
> masquerade:
> No newbie to alt.gothic would have the emotional investment that you
> obviously have, so just drop the sockpuppet.
You have a point about the emotional investment, but at the same time,
judging from the reply to Siobhan, "jacquehammer" is not familiar with the
term "sockpuppet", which makes me think that his/her investment involves one
of the disqualified bids, rather than alt.gothic directly.
H
Siobhan
<troia....@gmail.removethis.com> wrote:
>I was thinking how much utter *love* you'd get from people after being
>the one to post that!
>
>So do you get to carry the extra title of "scapegoat" or is it just assumed?
Wearing the big bullseye on my chest has been a part of the job
description since the job was invented. :-)
Siobhan
Siobhan
wrote:
>The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
>the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
>disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
>These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
>influence voters one bit, except maybe toward each other.
Maybe not, but the 350 mailed-in ballots from the same zipcode would
probably have done so.
There was definitely an intent to cheat by at least one of the
rejected proposals. And if we're going to start enforcing the rules to
the letter of the law, it's only fair that we do it on all bids
equally.
Siobhan
Axel
wrote:
>On Apr 22, 1:31 am, Axel <a...@eol.ca> wrote:
>Just a casual observer. And it's meatpuppet, sweetheart.
>
>Seriously, I think it's brilliant: If the cabal's style of Convergence
>can't win in a straight out vote, simply find any old reason to
>disqualify the opposing bids. Perfect.
If we wanted to fix the outcome we wouldn't disqualify bids, we'd just
rig the results.
--
Axel
<ax...@eol.ca>
Troia
So how's that work with the black-on-black dress code?
(Sorry, imagination ran a bit wild pre-coffee again.)
-- Troia
EdzewKurai
> On 22 Apr 2007 04:08:42 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
where would one find a link to the rules??
not picking sides just staying neutral here :) I was just curious
what the rules were.
Axel
wrote:
>where would one find a link to the rules??
>
>not picking sides just staying neutral here :) I was just curious
>what the rules were.
This very newsgroup.
In a thread that starts with the words "C14 Vote".
In other places too.
--
Axel
<ax...@eol.ca>
siani
> On Apr 22, 3:32 am, Jennie Kermode <"Jennie
> Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 2007-04-22, Siobhan <n...@virulent.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
>>> prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
>> I'd just like to note that I wholeheartedly agree with this
>> decision and am glad to see Convergence adhering to a fair set of rules
>> rather than letting them be bent until the whole thing is meaningless.
>>
>> Jennie
>>
>> --
>> Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
>> http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
>
> The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
> the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
> disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
those are the rules within which the event operates and has always
operated. if they do not wish to operate within those rules, they may
run a different event.
> These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
> influence voters one bit, except maybe toward each other.
exactly. they are given an unfair advantage by refusing to follow the
rules.
> If they were
> allowed to run their campaigns, and Ybor lost, it would be because the
> voters rejected it, just like they rejected Detroit's silly anti-bid
> last year. Clearly the only way for Ybor to win is by appealing to the
> only authority able to clear the playing field. Kudos to the Ybor team
> for their accomplishment.
it's the ONLY authority. its previously stated rules are the rules. if
people wish to not follow them, they can fuck right off. seems entirely
fair to me.
siani (recalls other years way back in the dawn of time when people
tried to start early.)
--
\\||//
- oo -
-|--|- (hedgehog)
siani
i couldn't approve more.
good for the c*b*l.
siani
~Fianna
"Axel" <ax...@eol.ca> wrote in message
news:u87m231o87oa35p7s...@4ax.com...
> On 21 Apr 2007 20:24:42 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacque...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
>>BBQ anyone?
>
> & who's sockpuppet are you sweetheart?
Eh, it's just sour grapes. There are people who've handled this well and
raised their complaints as good questions (I'm specifically thinking of
Brian of the New Orleans Committee/Sighco Graphics on Live Journal. At
least as of the last time that I read what he was saying in the
gothconvergence community, he's concerned about the decision, but
structuring those concerns in a very adult manner.)
There are a few who are pointing, yelling and throwing temper tantrums. And
hell, what are the Internets without whiny drama. At least they're serving
their duly appointed purpose in life.
~Fi, rational enough that even if I were highly partisan about either the
Hollywood or Dallas bid, I'd still have to agree with y'all's decision.
Troia
> ... There were five that didn't arrive in identical
> envelopes with identical content forms contained therein, with at least
> two differnt fonts used, which implies either two laptops and printers,
> or someone doing this for a couple of weeks.
OK, "enquiring minds want to know" and all that ... just how do you get
"laptops" out of that evidence?
Really, just curious.
-- Troia
Tim McGaughy
at jacque...@gmail.com wrote on 4/21/07 10:24 PM:
They can always try again next year.
Convergence has soaked in political crap in the past. I remember in the
distant past, the person in charge of the voting process was very vocal in
opposition of one of the bids while actively promoting another. I remember
votes getting dumped wholesale because he claimed they were fake. THAT'S how
you narrow down the proposals.
But this doesn't feel like that sort of situation at all. It's a simple
rules infraction, and snippy comments won't change that.
Convergence is not a Myspace party, and I think most of us here are happy
with that.
~Fianna
"Siobhan" <ne...@virulent.org> wrote in message
news:o58m2353chjbruiap...@4ax.com...
Who needs rules.
Seriously, the kind of whining that preceeded this just makes me wonder if
this person is involved in a bid. And it also makes me wonder if they'd be
hooting and hollering about this if Ybor had been bounced.
~Fi
Tim McGaughy
Jacquehammer at jacque...@gmail.com wrote on 4/22/07 4:55 AM:
> On Apr 22, 1:31 am, Axel <a...@eol.ca> wrote:
>> On 21 Apr 2007 20:24:42 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
>>> BBQ anyone?
>>
>> & who's sockpuppet are you sweetheart?
>>
>> --
>> Axel
>> <a...@eol.ca>
>
> Just a casual observer. And it's meatpuppet, sweetheart.
>
> Seriously, I think it's brilliant: If the cabal's style of Convergence
> can't win in a straight out vote, simply find any old reason to
> disqualify the opposing bids. Perfect.
Those 400 friends on Myspace can't vote on Convergence, anyway.
~Fianna
> On Apr 22, 3:32 am, Jennie Kermode <"Jennie
> Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 2007-04-22, Siobhan <n...@virulent.org> wrote:
>>
>> > The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
>> > prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
>>
>> I'd just like to note that I wholeheartedly agree with this
>> decision and am glad to see Convergence adhering to a fair set of rules
>> rather than letting them be bent until the whole thing is meaningless.
>>
>> Jennie
>>
>> --
>> Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
>> http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
>
> The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
> the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
Fair is keeping the field level for all the bids.
> disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
Actually, I think that Dallas should also have been excluded because they
didn't post bid text here and at least as of last Thursday when I checked,
their site on altgothic.com still said coming soon.
I wouldn't have voted for Hollywood because I don't think that an LA
Convergence would have worked at all (why have C* in a town that has two or
three clubs going just about every night of the week. Plus, it was just
expensive.), but at least they posted their bid text here and acknowledged
that Convergence has something to do with a.g.
> These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
> influence voters one bit, except maybe toward each other. If they were
> allowed to run their campaigns, and Ybor lost, it would be because the
> voters rejected it, just like they rejected Detroit's silly anti-bid
> last year. Clearly the only way for Ybor to win is by appealing to the
> only authority able to clear the playing field. Kudos to the Ybor team
> for their accomplishment.
If they were going to do that, why not do it 2 years ago?
Do you have any proof at all of these wild accusations you're making?
~Fi
~Fianna
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:49:50 -0400, Siobhan wrote:
>> Maybe not, but the 350 mailed-in ballots from the same zipcode would
>> probably have done so.
>
> Only 263, only 263... There were five that didn't arrive in identical
> envelopes with identical content forms contained therein, with at least
> two differnt fonts used, which implies either two laptops and printers,
> or someone doing this for a couple of weeks. All of that big batch
> smelled of incense. And two others that arrived postmarked the 17th, so
> they'll go into the database after the vote.
That's just fucked up.
How many of those 263 listed emails seem to show up anywhere on the net if
you google them?
>> There was definitely an intent to cheat by at least one of the
>> rejected proposals. And if we're going to start enforcing the rules to
>> the letter of the law, it's only fair that we do it on all bids
>> equally.
>
> Mailbox-stuffing seems to be the thing that's won votes after C10.
Bleh.
~Fi, annoyed.
Nyx
news:462b326c$0$97214$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:
> So do you get to carry the extra title of "scapegoat" or is it just
> assumed?
>
You know, I'm a bit of a hothead...I think I'm the official Loose Cannon of
alt.gothic, and even I wouldn't take on Siobhan.
One reason for that is that she's usually right about whatever the hell it
is she's talking about, and the other reason is that she can always back it
up.
I'm really hoping you decide to take her on. I'm making popcorn and marking
up the score on this thread in anticipation of that. Should be fun watching
her eat you alive. I'm hoping it will be more like Godzilla vs Mothra
rather than what I think it will actually be, which is Godzilla vs Bambi.
Nyx
Siobhan
<hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:49:50 -0400, Siobhan wrote:
>> Maybe not, but the 350 mailed-in ballots from the same zipcode would
>> probably have done so.
>
>Only 263, only 263... There were five that didn't arrive in identical
>envelopes with identical content forms contained therein, with at least
>two differnt fonts used, which implies either two laptops and printers,
>or someone doing this for a couple of weeks. All of that big batch
>smelled of incense. And two others that arrived postmarked the 17th, so
>they'll go into the database after the vote.
For some reason I had 363 stuck in my head. And I was (am) too
hung-over to go back and look for your email.
Still enough to nail the vote pretty solidly one way.
Siobhan
Nyx
news:pDMWh.153645$g24....@newsfe12.phx:
> Seriously, the kind of whining that preceeded this just makes me
> wonder if this person is involved in a bid. And it also makes me
> wonder if they'd be hooting and hollering about this if Ybor had been
> bounced.
I've been watching the drama of Convergence voting for about 10 years at
this point. This is nothing. I stopped giving a damn around c7.
What do you people say I just reserve a ballroom at some hotel in Atlanta
and just have it there? No planning, no bands. Everyone brings a covered
dish.
Nyx
Jacquehammer
> On 22 Apr 2007 04:08:42 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
So registering new voters to support a bid is now considered cheating?
I find that very interesting, since you approved the practice last
year. If I remember correctly, your only stipulation was that the
voter registrations arrive in separate envelopes.
JH
Jacquehammer
> On 22 Apr 2007 02:55:40 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 22, 1:31 am, Axel <a...@eol.ca> wrote:
> >Just a casual observer. And it's meatpuppet, sweetheart.
>
> >Seriously, I think it's brilliant: If the cabal's style of Convergence
> >can't win in a straight out vote, simply find any old reason to
> >disqualify the opposing bids. Perfect.
>
> If we wanted to fix the outcome we wouldn't disqualify bids, we'd just
> rig the results.
>
> --
> Axel
Maybe, though a rigged vote would leave voters asking WTF just
happened? - this is cleaner, a wave of the wand and the unwanted
proposals are gone.
~Fianna
"Nyx" <secr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns991A81EE41112...@216.168.3.50...
Works for me. If I were to put on some sort of a.g get together, that's
about what I'd do.
~Fi, who can I sign up for the potato salad?
~Fianna
> 'cause it smells (literally as well, in this case) like someone set up
> a table in a club or store to take the mail-in registration information
> down, and while it's possible to do that with a desktop, or a multi-task
> a POS computer to do so, it's far, far easier to just bring in another
> machine. And laptops are more portable for this kind of task. So there's
> no evidence of it, but if *I* were wanting to stuff a ballot box, that's
> what I'd do.
The force is strong in this one. From the Dallas myspace page at
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=148380625
Most recent comment:
Apr 19 2007 3:26P
Thank you for the add, your proposal was presented to me at The Church a
couple of weeks ago and I voted for it. So I really hope that the proposal
does go through.
Toddy
~Fi
Jacquehammer
> During this time Bid Proposal Committees may submit their
> Bid Proposals and preliminary event budgets to Siobhan
> (converge...@virulent.org) for inclusion on the Convergence 14
> ballot. After receipt of submission they may post their Bid
> Proposals to the alt.gothic.* news groups, and open their web sites
> to the public. Posting to regional mailing lists, weblogs and other
> mediums is acceptable but not essential.
Hmm. This is it? Guys, it is a little vague...there are some "may"
words in here "may submit..." and may post..." but there is nothing in
here that explicitly prohibits a ramp up on MySpace or LJ. You got
anything else?
> You know he held the BBQ anyway, right? It was fun. You know he's
> probably going to do it again, right? It will be fun again. That itch is
> well-scratched.
Yeah, I heard. I had a couple of keg parties myself, but they weren't
Convergence. Truth is, I'm thinking of doing it again next year, and
would like to invite a few more people - anyone mind if I use the
Afterglow mailing list to promote it?
JH
Kara
news:Xns991A81EE41112...@216.168.3.50:
Sounds like my sort of thing. If I can get cheap flights I'd come!
Kara
geekers
> So registering new voters to support a bid is now considered cheating?
You'll note that isn't the infraction they have been disqualified for.
(I would even say that not posting to a.g, a.g.c and a.g.f during the
submission phase is a more offensive infraction. This also is not what
they were disqualified for.) Ballot stuffing isn't against the rules,
but it does leave a sour taste in ones mouth.
geek.
Troia
I really can't imagine where you get the rather odd twist you put on things.
However, Siobhan seemed to understand the tone of my question, and
responded accordingly.
-- Troia
Dag
> Maybe, though a rigged vote would leave voters asking WTF just
> happened? - this is cleaner, a wave of the wand and the unwanted
> proposals are gone.
Nah, just shift a few votes from one city to another. Since everything
is done electronically it's very hard to check. No mess, no drama.
Much much easier than this.
Dag
Troia
I would've winced hard at reading this, had I not read your other
comment (about the incense, IIRC, though I read it pre-coffee).
> like someone set up
> a table in a club or store to take the mail-in registration information
> down, and while it's possible to do that with a desktop, or a multi-task
> a POS computer to do so, it's far, far easier to just bring in another
> machine. And laptops are more portable for this kind of task. So there's
> no evidence of it, but if *I* were wanting to stuff a ballot box, that's
> what I'd do.
>
So, I learn a bit every day; today I guess it was a quick-and-easy
lesson in one way to stuff a ballot box. *s*
Thanks. (Your scenario does sound a bit more plausible than 263 people
dropping by someone's apartment.)
-- Troia
Troia
There are always cheap flights to Atlanta, because it's a major hub.
-- Troia
eilis
> this point. This is nothing. I stopped giving a damn around c7.
>
> What do you people say I just reserve a ballroom at some hotel in Atlanta
> and just have it there? No planning, no bands. Everyone brings a covered
> dish.
>
> Nyx
I'd show up for that. And I make a pretty mean veggie lasagna...
Eilis
Axel
>> If we wanted to fix the outcome we wouldn't disqualify bids, we'd just
>> rig the results.
>Maybe, though a rigged vote would leave voters asking WTF just
>happened? - this is cleaner, a wave of the wand and the unwanted
>proposals are gone.
Y'know, when we get right down to it, the fact that you know so little
about Siobhan, Peter, JV, and the rest of us that you doubt our
integrity to the extent that you believe we would fix the result tells
me that I really don't give a flying fuck what you think.
The end.
--
Axel
<ax...@eol.ca>
CarrieMonster
>
> Mailbox-stuffing seems to be the thing that's won votes after C10.
Maybe it's time to do away with the mail-in thing?
Just sayin'
xoxo
CM
Jacquehammer
> On 22 Apr 2007 11:21:42 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
I doubt it's the end. What I don't give much of a flying fuck about is
that the cabal is splitting hairs to find a reason to disqualify the
only two bids in opposition to one suck-ass bid that smells a lot like
Detroit's from last year.
Whatever justification you present here, it's clear that the hundreds
of voters from last year who rejected Detroit don't have a good choice
this year. At this point it's a party in Ybor or nothing. Integrity?
Doesn't matter. The end result is the same, and I can't imagine any of
you being unhappy about it.
JH
Siobhan
wrote:
>I doubt it's the end. What I don't give much of a flying fuck about is
>that the cabal is splitting hairs to find a reason to disqualify the
>only two bids in opposition to one suck-ass bid that smells a lot like
>Detroit's from last year.
Our reasoning is explained in the post titled [C14 Vote] Current
status of bids.
Note that this is for your own education only. Since I have no idea
who you are or what your interest is, I feel absolutely no obligation
to justify our decisions to you.
Siobhan
c_death
>
> Those 400 friends on Myspace can't vote on Convergence, anyway.
how do you figure? You can't read alt.gothic and be on myspace too?
I *could* join the convergence 14 LA group on myspace and guess what?
I have a convergence vote. I've had one since Convergence 3.
I don't get your logic
(I am *not* on the convergenc 14 group on myspace, I'm just saying)
Tim McGaughy
at jacque...@gmail.com wrote on 4/22/07 4:35 PM:
Why don't you just have a nice tall glass of Shut The Fuck Up.
Follow the rules next year, and your bid won't get tossed out. That's about
as simple as it gets.
Tim McGaughy
death+...@perkigoth.com wrote on 4/22/07 5:19 PM:
> On Apr 22, 10:08 am, Tim McGaughy <tee...@ispwest.com> wrote:
>>
>> Those 400 friends on Myspace can't vote on Convergence, anyway.
>
> how do you figure? You can't read alt.gothic and be on myspace too?
The vast majority of the people on Myspace don't even have a clue that
Usenet exists. And if they were trying to inform alt.gothic readers, well,
here we are.
Jacquehammer
> Jacquehammer wrote:
> > On Apr 22, 3:32 am, Jennie Kermode <"Jennie
> > Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 2007-04-22, Siobhan <n...@virulent.org> wrote:
>
> >> > The C*b*l has discussed the issue and we have decided that two of the
> >> > prospective bids for Convergence 14 are in violation of the rules.
>
> >> I'd just like to note that I wholeheartedly agree with this
> >> decision and am glad to see Convergence adhering to a fair set of rules
> >> rather than letting them be bent until the whole thing is meaningless.
>
> >> Jennie
>
> >> --
> >> Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
> >> http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
>
> > The discussion of "rules" in this situation is a farce, and the use of
> > the word "fair" seems highly subjective. Dallas and Hollywood are
>
>
> > disqualified because they posted their bid proposals early? Whatever.
>
> didn't post bid text here and at least as of last Thursday when I checked,
> their site on altgothic.com still said coming soon.
>
> I wouldn't have voted for Hollywood because I don't think that an LA
> Convergence would have worked at all (why have C* in a town that has two or
> three clubs going just about every night of the week. Plus, it was just
> expensive.), but at least they posted their bid text here and acknowledged
> that Convergence has something to do with a.g.
>
> > These committees posting their proposals early actions aren't going to
> > allowed to run their campaigns, and Ybor lost, it would be because the
> > voters rejected it, just like they rejected Detroit's silly anti-bid
> > last year. Clearly the only way for Ybor to win is by appealing to the
> > only authority able to clear the playing field. Kudos to the Ybor team
> > for their accomplishment.
>
> If they were going to do that, why not do it 2 years ago?
>
> Do you have any proof at all of these wild accusations you're making?
>
> ~Fi- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
These are not so much accusations but an observation. I'll leave it to
someone with more time and a bigger "give-a-shit-o-meter" to prove or
disprove. FYI, I don't have an emotional investment in any of the bids
this year, but I have a big investment in my sense of fair play. So it
occurs to me that despite the huffing and puffing, getting all snarly
and defensive, and teaming up to justify these actions, none of that
defensive crap being spewed in this forum even matters, and here's
why:
The result of the decision to disqualify two of three competing bids
leaves only a single choice for hundred of voters who have
demonstrated their disdain for Ybor-like proposals in the past by
large margins. So with Ybor representing the kegger contingent, the
real majority simply won't be represented this year. These voters'
representatives have simply been eliminated, a political practice
exercised frequently in third-world countries all the time.
Whatever spin and posturing put forth in defense of the cabal's
actions doesn't change the effect of what just happened. A fair vote
between multiple candidates has been stripped away, leaving Ybor as
the only option. Combined with the memory of this same minority
bitching about how Convergence has grown out of control, I can't help
but smell the bullshit.
JH
Siobhan
wrote:
>in article 1177277747....@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com, Jacquehammer
>at jacque...@gmail.com wrote on 4/22/07 4:35 PM:
>> Whatever justification you present here, it's clear that the hundreds
>> of voters from last year who rejected Detroit don't have a good choice
>> this year. At this point it's a party in Ybor or nothing. Integrity?
>> Doesn't matter. The end result is the same, and I can't imagine any of
>> you being unhappy about it.
>
>Why don't you just have a nice tall glass of Shut The Fuck Up.
>
>Follow the rules next year, and your bid won't get tossed out. That's about
>as simple as it gets.
It's actually all about getting the high score on Peter's posting
summary.
Really.
Siobhan
Siobhan
wrote:
>A fair vote
>between multiple candidates has been stripped away, leaving Ybor as
>the only option.
Yep. But not by us.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Siobhan
Siobhan
>Troia <troia....@gmail.removethis.com> wrote in
>news:462b326c$0$97214$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:
>
>> So do you get to carry the extra title of "scapegoat" or is it just
>> assumed?
>>
>
>You know, I'm a bit of a hothead...I think I'm the official Loose Cannon of
>alt.gothic, and even I wouldn't take on Siobhan.
>
>One reason for that is that she's usually right about whatever the hell it
>is she's talking about, and the other reason is that she can always back it
>up.
*bllnk*
Wow. I'm flattered. :-)
But I'm pretty sure Troia was referring to other peoples' potential
reaction to the announcement, not taking a pot shot at me herself.
Siobhan
Siobhan
<hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>> So with Ybor representing the kegger contingent,
>
>I so love this phrase. I'm keeping it.
Maybe we should get t-shirts printed.
Or baseball caps. With those beer can holders on them.
Siobhan
erithromycin
>Jacquehammer <jacque...@gmail.com> wrote:
Isn't convergence voting single transferable anyway? It's piss easy to game
even in the open. It's all about managing second votes, and the thing to
remember is they don't trend cleanly. We'll see an interesting example of
this in France in a fortnight.
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>~Fianna
>>Jacquehammer wrote:
>>>I guess that's one way to narrow down the vote to proposls you like.
>>>BBQ anyone?
>>Or a way to keep the process level for future committees.
>>>Although there is still Boo's Pants.
>>That's always an option.
>Wasn't someone supposed to put in a bid for Siani's Cavernous Vagina, this
>year? Guess that'll hafta wait for C15...
I couldn't get the Main Turbine Hall booked in time. I think Siani's
Cavernous Vagina might turn up elsewhere, however. I believe it will be in
Whitby in about a week.*
--
erith - * note to self: argh!
erithromycin
>Siobhan wrote:
>>Wearing the big bullseye on my chest has been a part of the job
>>description since the job was invented. :-)
>So how's that work with the black-on-black dress code?
Not all blacks have the same albedo.
(and not all goths have the same libido)
--
erith - i had best end this rhyme muy rapido
erithromycin
>Axel:
>>& who's sockpuppet are you sweetheart?
>Just a casual observer. And it's meatpuppet, sweetheart.
?
I do not think you understand what it is that Axel was alleging.
_
Welcome to alt.gothic! You must be this tall: to ride. Please keep your
hands inside the car at all times. I doubt you are the jacquehammer I can
find through google because you are posting through qwest. You appear to be
a beginner at this sort of thing. Care to introduce yourself to the class?
--
erith - you are harshing my instance
erithromycin
~Fianna:
>who can I sign up for the potato salad?
Me. I make an excellent potato salad. In fact, potatoes are an aspect of my
dominion. That's one of the reasons why I get Phobos -and- Deimos.
The trick, you see, is to mess with expectations.
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>Nyx:
>>I've been watching the drama of Convergence voting for about 10 years at
>>this point. This is nothing. I stopped giving a damn around c7.
>>What do you people say I just reserve a ballroom at some hotel in Atlanta
>>and just have it there? No planning, no bands. Everyone brings a covered
>>dish.
>I'd show up for that. And I make a pretty mean veggie lasagna...
How mean? Will it pull hair, or just call folks names?
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>Bob Terwilliger
>>Take a look at the reality of the situation, rather than what you think
>>the situation SHOULD be, or what you WISH the situation were, and then
>>move forward as any rational adult would. And ferchrissake, shed the
>>masquerade: No newbie to alt.gothic would have the emotional investment
>>that you obviously have, so just drop the sockpuppet.
>You have a point about the emotional investment, but at the same time,
>judging from the reply to Siobhan, "jacquehammer" is not familiar with the
>term "sockpuppet", which makes me think that his/her investment involves
>one of the disqualified bids, rather than alt.gothic directly.
Well, given that they appear to have taken their name from the French
version of Pheonix Wright, Ace Attorney, I'm not even sure that they are a
person. Are we getting spammed by nigh Turing-capable adverbots now?
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>where would one find a link to the rules??
They can be found at http://altgothic.com/.
They are on the front page. Just scroll down.
Or, read from http://altgothic.com/faqs/voting.php#requirements
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>Tim McGaughy <tee...@ispwest.com> wrote:
>>Those 400 friends on Myspace can't vote on Convergence, anyway.
>how do you figure? You can't read alt.gothic and be on myspace too?
>I *could* join the convergence 14 LA group on myspace and guess what?
>I have a convergence vote. I've had one since Convergence 3.
The 'register to vote' link to a friends locked blog post at the top of the
page (though to be honest looking at the thing makes me want to kill) I
suspect counts as an attempt to increase the voting population.
Not, necessarily, a bad thing, but I suspect that many of those who have
been to a convergence don't actively realise that they _could_ vote on
future ones.
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>Thanks. (Your scenario does sound a bit more plausible than 263 people
>dropping by someone's apartment.)
Erm. You really ought to come to Whitby. You'd be surprised.
Though I believe Convergences have managed equivalent feats with rooms.
--
erith - .sig
Jacquehammer
> in article 1177277747.897521.42...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com, Jacquehammer
> at jacqueham...@gmail.com wrote on 4/22/07 4:35 PM:
Troia
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:42:50 -0000, Nyx <secr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Troia <troia....@gmail.removethis.com> wrote in
>> news:462b326c$0$97214$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net:
>>
>>> So do you get to carry the extra title of "scapegoat" or is it just
>>> assumed?
> But I'm pretty sure Troia was referring to other peoples' potential
> reaction to the announcement, not taking a pot shot at me herself.
>
> Siobhan
Yup.
But I'm still struggling with that whole yellow T-shirt image, which
really messed up my mental image of you with the target in black-on-black.
Stop screwing with my mind!!!!!
-- Troia
EdzewKurai
Dallas was going to post their text proposal the other night but they
were still having problems with their sight (the flash page was still
pointing to their coming soon.) they had their sight ready and last i
checked (last night it was all up and running) they didn't want to
post their text if the bid sight was not working correctly. They just
wanted it to be perfect. because if they didn't they knew they would
get flamed.
http://www.altgothic.com/c14dallas/index.html
yup working just fine now! o well :(
Jacquehammer
> in article 1177277747.897521.42...@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com, Jacquehammer
Nice. *Now* we're getting into some intelligent debate.
A nice tall glass of Shut the Fuck up? Is this becase you're not able
to have an intelligent discussion that includes opposing viewpoints,
or are you a closet republican? Maybe you work for Fox News? Yeah,
would be nice if I would just shut the fuck up and go away, then you
and your cronies can just sweep this shit under the rug.
What's that? Oh, yeah, too fucking bad.
> Follow the rules next year, and your bid won't get tossed out. That's about
> as simple as it gets
Well, sweetheart, it wasn't my bid, so I really don't have a stake in
anything but fairness.
And for the record, I still haven't seen a rule that explicitly states
that a bid committee will be disqualified for posting info to a third
party online resource prior to the official discussion period. Until I
see something in writing (that wasn't just made up or pulled out of
someones arse), I'm convinced that no such rule exists.
JH
Jacquehammer
> On 22 Apr 2007 17:12:37 -0700, Jacquehammer <jacqueham...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >A fair vote
> >between multiple candidates has been stripped away, leaving Ybor as
> >the only option.
>
> Yep. But not by us.
>
> Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
>
> Siobhan
Sounds fair. Now, can you tell me that the cabal equally enforces the
rules to all parties? Including your own policies?
ange...@gmail.com
> So with Ybor representing the kegger contingent,
I'm honestly insulted by the insinuation that I'd serve my friends
crappy keg beer. Rafe may be a light beer swilling heathen but around
MY house we don't drink anything that's easily (or cheaply) found in a
keg or that would be found at a typical 'kegger'. Heck, our _lowest
common denominator_ beer of the moment is Leinenkugel Sunset Wheat,
which is NOT cheap to get down here in Florida. But it's so, so tasty.
- Sil
Jacquehammer
> committee than Angel, OneBob, and Rafe do. We wouldn't disqualify
> competition for Macross; why this year?
>
> --
> 19. I will not have a daughter. She would be as beautiful as she was evil, but
> one look at the hero's rugged countenance and she'd betray her own father.
> --Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Obviously because Mac was so soundly defeated last year, and it is
pretty clear that Ybor had no chance if there was competition. Sorry,
I never implied that the cabal couldn't learn from last year's
mistakes. In fact, the new approach seems to be working quite well.
Jacquehammer
but I'll try.
> So you magically appear when injustice has been done? Are your
> superpowers those of handwringing and wailing? Because you sure sound
> like you've got *some* kind of investment in this...
I'm wondering why I need any superpowers to address something that I
perceive as wrong. But if it gives you a context to understand my
motivation, then I would say that my super power is to sniff out
bullshit, and when it offends me, say something about it. My
investment is simple: I think the Ybor proposal sucks. I thought Mac's
proposal sucked last year. And I think that the people whom the cabal
decides to allow to vote have sided with me on this - for reference,
look at last year's vote results.
During the course of debate last year, there was much grumbling by the
cabal and old school elitists here on alt.goth who railed against the
festival version of Convergence, and spent much time talking shit
about the other proposals while at the same time talking about how
great Mac's anti-bid was. Well, the vote happened, Mac lost by a
significant margin, now fast forward to today. We have a similar
proposal out there that is embraced by the cabal, two proposals that
aren't. With a wave of a magic wand, those two proposals disappear.
Actually I know it wasn't a wave of a wand, and there is much
justifying in the works, which in my opinion is smoke and mirrors - I
don't think anyone believes Ybor would win in a three way race between
Dallas, Hollywood, and Ybor.
So, Dallas and Hollywood are 86'ed, and Ybor is set to win by default.
Pretty fucking convenient.
And before you say it's about the rules again, I'm sorry, I'm not
buying that bullshit. You're splitting hairs over a policy that isn't
even explicitly stated anywhere - and ignoring your own internal
policies that are stated explicitly. Yes, let's discuss that further.
Ask me.
> Name three "Ybor-like" proposals. I can't remember any others with
> shark themes or referred to _Happy Days_.
I'm thinking about Detroit's proposal last year, and Ybor this year.
> > So with Ybor representing the kegger contingent,
> I so love this phrase. I'm keeping it.
It's all you. I'm working on another phrase that deals with trailor
parks, you can embrace that one when I launch it too.
> > the real majority simply won't be represented this year. These voters'
> > representatives have simply been eliminated, a political practice
> > exercised frequently in third-world countries all the time.
>
> Yet, *SOMEHOW* it's only happened once in over a decade of votes.
> See, in real-world politics, someone violating campaign laws get fined
> or goes to jail. Sadly, we don't get that option.
The question is, who's ethics are really in question here? Dallas or
Hollywood? Or the cabal?
> I'll repeat the question asked by others: who are you, and why should
> we, the readers of alt.gothic, care what you think?
You don't know me, and you don't want to know me. I don't know you,
and I don't want to know you. It's a little egotistical on your part
to assume I'm even writing this shit to you - I wonder how many others
are reading what I'm writing and finding themselves nodding along with
me? Until alt.gothic becomes a private forum, I'll use it as a place
to say what's on my mind, for whatever term suits me. You always have
the option not to read it.
JH
Jacquehammer
certain activities, well, you might want to go back to school. There
have been appellate court cases fought over the placement of a single
comma in a contract. Your rules are unclear, which is what allows
bullshit like this to happen in the first place.
On Apr 22, 2:31 pm, "Peter H. Coffin" <hell...@ninehells.com> wrote:
> On 22 Apr 2007 11:42:17 -0700, Jacquehammer wrote:
>
> > Awesome! So let's look at this together:
>
> >> During this time Bid Proposal Committees may submit their
> >> Bid Proposals and preliminary event budgets to Siobhan
> >> (converge...@virulent.org) for inclusion on the Convergence 14
> >> ballot. After receipt of submission they may post their Bid
> >> Proposals to the alt.gothic.* news groups, and open their web sites
> >> to the public. Posting to regional mailing lists, weblogs and other
> >> mediums is acceptable but not essential.
>
> > Hmm. This is it? Guys, it is a little vague...there are some "may"
> > words in here "may submit..." and may post..." but there is nothing in
> > here that explicitly prohibits a ramp up on MySpace or LJ. You got
> > anything else?
>
> *After* [condition] they *may* [do stuff]
>
> (a) Ability, competency, or possibility; -- now oftener
> expressed by {can}.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> How may a man, said he, with idle speech,
> Be won to spoil the castle of his health!
> --Spenser.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> For what he [the king] may do is of two kinds; what
> he may do as just, and what he may do as possible.
> --Bacon.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> For of all sad words of tongue or pen
> The saddest are these: "It might have been."
> --Whittier.
> [1913 Webster]
> (b) Liberty; permission; allowance.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> Thou mayst be no longer steward. --Luke xvi. 2.
> [1913 Webster]
> (c) Contingency or liability; possibility or probability.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> Though what he learns he speaks, and may advance
> Some general maxims, or be right by chance. --Pope.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> It is clear that the word "may" in this circumstance is essentially
> synonymous with "is allowed or permitted to". Do you need me to
> define "after" for you, now? This kind of semantic bullshit is like a
> five-year-old, found with hand in cookie jar, claiming that he shouldn't
> be punished because "it's after *yesterday's* dinner."
>
> >> You know he held the BBQ anyway, right? It was fun. You know he's
> >> probably going to do it again, right? It will be fun again. That itch is
> >> well-scratched.
>
> > Yeah, I heard. I had a couple of keg parties myself, but they weren't
> > Convergence. Truth is, I'm thinking of doing it again next year, and
> > would like to invite a few more people - anyone mind if I use the
> > Afterglow mailing list to promote it?
>
> You're welcome to announce here. Afterglow is, IIRC, up to Macross, and
> I can't wait to see the dopeslap coming from that direction.
>
> --
> 51. If one of my dungeon guards begins expressing concern over the conditions
> in the beautiful princess' cell, I will immediately transfer him to a
> less people-oriented position.
Jacquehammer
Hmm. Again, let me say for the record: I don't have a lot of interest
in knowing the kind of arrogant assholes (such as youself) who ignore
substance in debate and focus instead on showing people how
technically nerdy you are. Who gives a shit what I post though? If you
can read what I write, that's really where the discussion is, isn't
it? Are you really suggesting that my posts have no value because I
post through qwest?
I can imagine a debate among turn-of-the-century telegrah operators,
saying things like "Your Morse code sucks because my tapper's better
than yours..."
Seriously, the debate is out there, keep your juvenile attempts at
personal attacks in your pocket for someone who gives a rat's ass.
JH
Jacquehammer
> EdzewKurai:
>
> >where would one find a link to the rules??
>
>
> They are on the front page. Just scroll down.
>
> --
> erith - .sig
I'm still waiting for one of you to read them and show an explicit
prohibition against what Dallas and Hollywood did. Do that, and I'll
shut up.
JH
Jacquehammer
> been to a convergence don't actively realise that they _could_ vote on
> future ones.
Not all of them. The cabal last year did not allow C12 attendees
attending their first Convergence to vote for C13, despite the fact
that the database of voters was made available to them well in advance
of the vote.
Ditto for first-time folks going to C13 - they won't be allowed to
vote for C14, according to a recent announcement by the cabal.
JH
Bob Terwilliger
> are you a closet republican? Maybe you work for Fox News?
Getting close to Godwin territory here...
>> Follow the rules next year, and your bid won't get tossed out. That's
>> about as simple as it gets
>
> Well, sweetheart, it wasn't my bid, so I really don't have a stake in
> anything but fairness.
Your keyboard says "no," but your words say "YES! YES! YES!"
How much money do you think you would have made, if only your coyly-unnamed
favorite bid had managed to secure C14?
Bob
Satori
"Jacquehammer" <jacque...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177296488.9...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Is it so aggregious to expect someone to have experienced a convergence
before voting on one?
My first convergence was C9, mainly because it was in my city of residence
(Las Vegas). A good friend of mine, the other house DJ at the goth club I
spun at at the time, was on Vegas' C9 committee. I didn't vote for C9,
because I had never been on alt.gothic at that point, and I never felt it
was my right to get involved in the voting process for an event that I'd not
been a part of. I attended, enjoyed, started posting to ag, and have
participated in every vote from C10 on. I never felt that this was unfair.
Had the C10 vote occured before C9, I don't think I'd have been whiny about
not being able to vote for it, either.
How does one know what to expect from, and what they want out of, a
convergence if they've never been? And if the goal of the bid committees is
to sign up as many uninvolved people from their town to vote for them,
instead of to appeal to the universe of former attendees that are supposed
to make an informed choice, then what's the point of a vote, anyway? Just
give it to whomever gives Shiobhan the biggest bribe.
-Satori
who is not part of the c*b*l, and who is only speaking for himself, and in
case you're still having trouble understanding sarcasm, isn't insinuating
any bribery happened.
Satori
"Satori" <dwis...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:aiVWh.265435$6P2....@newsfe16.phx...
> How does one know what to expect from, and what they want out of, a
> convergence if they've never been? And if the goal of the bid committees
> is to sign up as many uninvolved people from their town to vote for them,
> instead of to appeal to the universe of former attendees that are supposed
> to make an informed choice, then what's the point of a vote, anyway? Just
> give it to whomever gives Shiobhan the biggest bribe.
I think that's the second post in a row in which I've added an 'h' to
someone's name that didn't belong there. Maybe I shouldn't drink champagne
while I post to ag...
Bob Terwilliger
>> Not, necessarily, a bad thing, but I suspect that many of those who have
>> been to a convergence don't actively realise that they _could_ vote on
>> future ones.
>
> Not all of them. The cabal last year did not allow C12 attendees
> attending their first Convergence to vote for C13, despite the fact
> that the database of voters was made available to them well in advance
> of the vote.
Where was your table-thumping outrage then? Why didn't you embark on this
same kind of fire-and-brimstone campaign last year? Fair play is fair play,
after all, and you CLAIM to be motivated by the injustice of the current
situation.
But that claim is a lie, isn't it?
Bob
~Fianna
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:27:33 -0700, ~Fianna wrote:
>> How many of those 263 listed emails seem to show up anywhere on the net
>> if
>> you google them?
>
> Dunno.. that might be a fun project for sometime. Interestingly, there
> were a fair number of email addresses on the forms that just plain were
> wrong: they bounced. Some were one that I could make guesses as to what
> the right email address was, and I got about half of them to work that
> way. As for the rest, no idea if mistyped, misheard, misread, or even
> made up on the spot.
Eh, that's what I tend to do when people want me to sign up for things.
Sure, yeah, whatever, my email address is i'mly...@to.you.com.
Is it time to can the mail-in thing? Which sorta sucks, since it's nice to
get people involved in the choice... but I don't think the idea is to
mass-register 300 people to vote for a specific city.
I wonder how many of those registrations were going to bother to vote
anyway. The blanket-registering thing just doesn't work. I know cause I
did a real voter reg drive that got about 10k registrations, only about 2k
or so of which actually voted in either the primary or the November
(presidential) general. People will sign up because most people don't want
to say no, but they'll balk before actually putting forth any effort.
>>>> There was definitely an intent to cheat by at least one of the
>>>> rejected proposals. And if we're going to start enforcing the rules to
>>>> the letter of the law, it's only fair that we do it on all bids
>>>> equally.
>>>
>>> Mailbox-stuffing seems to be the thing that's won votes after C10.
>>
>> Bleh.
>
> That's what the the people bitching about the c*b*l not being "open to
> new ideas" are fomenting.
New ideas != cheating.
~Fi, nothing like a nice big glass of integrity.
~Fianna
> If you don't see the importance of an explicit phrase prohibiting
> certain activities, well, you might want to go back to school. There
> have been appellate court cases fought over the placement of a single
> comma in a contract. Your rules are unclear, which is what allows
> bullshit like this to happen in the first place.
Great. Now it's top-posting. Erith, do you have the clueX4 ready?
*sigh*
~Fi, who hates people who don't disclose their agendas while simultaneously
slagging those who actually do stuff.
Siobhan
wrote:
You know, I do a lot of hand-holding for people during the vote
process, but I flat-out refuse to explain concepts like CHRONOLOGICAL
TIME to them.
Siobhan
~Fianna
But you're cute when you're tipsy... and drunk-posting to USENET as quite a
long provenance...
~Fi, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee pink bubbly goodness.
~Fianna
> Hmm. Again, let me say for the record: I don't have a lot of interest
> in knowing the kind of arrogant assholes (such as youself) who ignore
> substance in debate and focus instead on showing people how
> technically nerdy you are. Who gives a shit what I post though? If you
> can read what I write, that's really where the discussion is, isn't
> it? Are you really suggesting that my posts have no value because I
> post through qwest?
The thing is, sweetcheeks, there is no substance in your debate. You
haven't done anything except bounce in to the middle of our group and start
slinging mud at our friends, so excuse us if we don't exactly care much what
you have to say.
Second, figuring out how to operate an IP search isn't exactly nerdy.
Third, if you think that that sort of thing is "nerdy" WHY THE HELL are you
even remotely interested in going to a net.goth event?
The reason anyone cares who you are is because you're acting like someone
totally invested in something trying to drum up a fake controversy to push a
certain agenda. You haven't disclosed anything about yourself, at all. All
I can tell is that you seem to be posting through an NNTP server based in or
around Denver. A google on you shows not much at all. Thus you're likely a
sockpuppet. Sockpuppets aren't much taken seriously around here. You're
just sort of an amusing toy for us to laugh at.
Now shoo.
> I can imagine a debate among turn-of-the-century telegrah operators,
> saying things like "Your Morse code sucks because my tapper's better
> than yours..."
>
> Seriously, the debate is out there, keep your juvenile attempts at
> personal attacks in your pocket for someone who gives a rat's ass.
Ooooh, scary.
~Fi, this is fun.
eilis
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:49:48 -0500, "Peter H. Coffin"
> <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>So with Ybor representing the kegger contingent,
>>
>>I so love this phrase. I'm keeping it.
>
>
>
> Or baseball caps. With those beer can holders on them.
>
> Siobhan
Eilis
geekers
It might have something to do with the fact that the previous C* occurs
after the vote. When it wasn't set up as such (and the vote occurred at
a later date), people bitched because "they needed to know dates earlier
to plan vacation time for the event."
geek.
John Everett
> I doubt it's the end.
Rebel. Fork. Fight the power. Do your own thing. Be Free(tm).
> At this point it's a party in Ybor or nothing.
Oh, how tired I am of idiots looking for a "party" or a "festival". Why
again do you bother with goth, when there are parties and festivities
EVERYWHERE else?
Y'know, only perhaps 10% of the people have the features and complexion to
actually look good in black. If it's just all fun fad and fashion for you,
odds are that it doesn't suit you anyway.
> The end result is the same, and I can't imagine any
> of you being unhappy about it.
Heaven forbid. I hope unhappiness and gloom abounds.
Let every song be a dirge, and every utterance a lamentation!
~Fianna
> These are not so much accusations but an observation. I'll leave it to
> someone with more time and a bigger "give-a-shit-o-meter" to prove or
You seem to have an awful lot of time. Just saying and all.
> disprove. FYI, I don't have an emotional investment in any of the bids
> this year, but I have a big investment in my sense of fair play. So it
> occurs to me that despite the huffing and puffing, getting all snarly
> and defensive, and teaming up to justify these actions, none of that
> defensive crap being spewed in this forum even matters, and here's
> why:
>
> The result of the decision to disqualify two of three competing bids
> leaves only a single choice for hundred of voters who have
> demonstrated their disdain for Ybor-like proposals in the past by
> large margins. So with Ybor representing the kegger contingent, the
> real majority simply won't be represented this year. These voters'
> representatives have simply been eliminated, a political practice
> exercised frequently in third-world countries all the time.
Then they should be pointing fingers at Dallas for being a lot of puds and
fucking it up for everything, and not the committee for trying to do the
right thing.
> Whatever spin and posturing put forth in defense of the cabal's
> actions doesn't change the effect of what just happened. A fair vote
> between multiple candidates has been stripped away, leaving Ybor as
> the only option. Combined with the memory of this same minority
> bitching about how Convergence has grown out of control, I can't help
> but smell the bullshit.
Except there couldn't be a fair vote since at least one city was blatantly
cheating.
Unless in your world, you're okay with cheating provided it gives you the
outcome you desire.
~Fi, still wondering if you'd be this upset if it were Hollywood and Ybor
that were chucked off the ballot.