Top Ten Most-Goth Movies of All Time?
Tiny Human Ferret
I need your submissions to this vitally important project.
What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
All Time?
This could and perhaps should be a recurrent thread, ideally populating
the FAQ just to prevent people from actually frequently asking this
question.
My pick for the night:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089885/
Re-Animator
Unquestionably one of the more twisted and fucked up movies of all time
which ever saw significant distribution, this features such lines as:
West
You'll never get credit for MY discovery. Who's going to believe a
talking head, get a job in a sideshow.
The funny part about this is that he's actually talking to a talking
head that's trying to steal his discovery, a "reagent" that restores the
dead to life, and which has restored this talking head to life, soaking
up blood in a bedpan, carelessly impaled on a notes-spike to hold it
upright, yet a scheming bastard nonetheless after enduring all of the
above.
In a script which rivals the worst efforts of the original Saturday
Night Live's "Bad Playhouse" crew, this film is morbid as fuck and
saturated with moments of disgust, passion, bad science, and hilarity in
roughly equal parts. Speaking of parts, they're splattered all over the
wall and sliding down slowly, dripping a bit as they go. It also has the
obligatory breasts and college romance.
I submit that this is the very essence of Goth.
Your choices?
I submit that Mr Peter Coffin should be statistician and referee or at
least the statistician.
--klaatu, if this doesn't spark up the newsgroup traffic I can't imagine
what might
--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may
often assume the appearance, and produce the effects,
of a treasonable correspondence with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
> All Time?
In no particular order:
"Black Sunday" - The film that broke Barbara Steele. The best Carpathian
movie of all time, easily superior to any Dracula picture I've seen.
"The Cabinet of Dr. Cagliari" - Just for the set designs.
"Ilsa: She Wolf of the SS" - It takes a special mind to make a porno about
Nazi concentration camps that is so bad it's funny. It takes _genius_ to
dedicate it to the victims of genocide in the opening credits.
"The Lost City" - Best. Serial. Ever.
"Being There" - Peter Sellers's last film, and probably his masterpiece. If
it doesn't belong for anything else, it belongs for the lovely formal and
understated men's fashions he wore.
"Kind Hearts and Coronets" - If only for the ending. . . .
"Vampyr" - Dreyer made a vampire film that looks like a _tableau vivant_ of
images from Edvard Munch.
"Masque of the Red Death" - my favourite Vincent Price Poe picture
"Dracula Has Risen From the Grave" - an eccentric choice, but still my
favourite Hammer picture
"Heavenly Creatures" - Still my favourite Peter Jackson picture.
--
Ecce torpet probitas; virtus sepelitur.
Fit jam parca largitas; parcitas largitur.
Verum vincit falsitas, veritas mentitur.
Nyx
news:411EBA13...@earthops.net:
> Your choices?
Heathers.
Donnie Darko.
Apocalypse Now
Blade Runner
Ghost World
The Craft (go ahead, laugh at me, you'll be laughing out your ass, quite
literally, when I put the Curse of Mano on you.)
Near Dark
The Hunger
Beetlejuice
The Believers
Lair of the White Worm
My First Mister
Oh, and Gothic, which seems like it would be really stupid, but it's not.
Although the acting is a bit campy.
I know I'm leaving something out. Probably something with Fairuza Balk.
BTW, if you type "goth movies" in the search at IMDB you get this page,
http://www.imdb.com/find?tt=on;nm=on;mx=20;q=goth%20movies, which
includes Alvin and the Chimpmunks.
Nyx
Nyx
$OB3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> "Masque of the Red Death" - my favourite Vincent Price Poe picture
You could really just list every Vincent Price movie.
I saw one the other day where he was an actor killing all his former
critics. That was brilliant.
Nyx
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> BTW, if you type "goth movies" in the search at IMDB you get this page,
> http://www.imdb.com/find?tt=on;nm=on;mx=20;q=goth%20movies, which
> includes Alvin and the Chimpmunks.
Check out the 80s New Wave version of Alvin and the Chipmunks. Alvin and
the Chipmunks were GAF.
Tiny Human Ferret
What, "The Abominable Doctor Phibes"? Talks some guy into wearing a
special hat that he can't remove, that just gets tighter and tighter
until his eyes pop out?
IX is probably right, Vincent Price is probably the archetype of Goth
sensibilities.
Joseph Brenner
Tiny Human Ferret <ixnayamsp...@earthops.net> writes:
> I need your submissions to this vitally important project.
>
> What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth
> Movies of All Time?
Um... "The Crow"! Anything with Johnny Depp in it!
The complete works of Tim Burton! Um... "The Lair of the
White Worm!" Or, uh "Barb Wire"!
All right, this is obvious, but none the less a required
entry on the list: "Death Takes a Holiday", meaning the 1934
version with Fredric March (accept no substitutes):
http://www.scifilm.org/musings2/musing648.html
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/death_takes_a_holiday/
http://www.minervaclassics.com/movimyth.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_%28personification%29
Goth as fuck, and a nearly perfect job, though as I remember
it the heavy-handed soundtrack music can be irritating.
Speaking of Fredric March, the 1933 Lubitsch version of
"Design for Living" should be seen by all the polyamorous at
heart, even if it does tone down the theme a bit from the
original Noel Coward version (which I also recommend, if you
can find a live performance of it). This is the only
romantic triangle I can think of that was taken all the way
to the one logical happy ending.
Anyway, real goth movies are all in black and white.
Which luckilly means "Wings of Desire" is still in the
running (as is "Manhatten" and "A Hard Day's Night", though
I suspect they will get fewer votes).
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> IX is probably right, Vincent Price is probably the archetype of Goth
> sensibilities.
I'd say that the Vincent Price AIP pictures and the Hammer Christopher Lee
Dracula pictures are the two bodies of work that lie at the foundation; all
that comes afterwards derives in some sense from these.
Bela Lugosi needs to be mentioned. The 1931 Dracula is the obvious choice,
so I will choose instead "Mystery of the Marie Celeste." Somewhat hard to
find, but worth looking for.
alt.gothic OG
>
>
> BTW, if you type "goth movies" in the search at IMDB you get this page,
> http://www.imdb.com/find?tt=on;nm=on;mx=20;q=goth%20movies, which
> includes Alvin and the Chimpmunks.
>
> Nyx
<geek>That's because you did a search on "goth movies" which tells the
database engine give me anything that has the words "goth" and/or
"movies". Alvin and the Chimpmunks description was along the lines of
the chimpmunks go to the MOVIES. That's why that entry was
there.</geek>
I did my own search and came across a movie called "The gothic
romance" which looks like a B movie flick (soft quick porn, bad
acting, cheap feel, less than an hour long). I couldn't recognize the
group that was playing in the background of the trailer either.
http://www.meat-insomnia.com/agr/trailer.htm
Regards...
Tiny Human Ferret
> Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
>
>
>>IX is probably right, Vincent Price is probably the archetype of Goth
>>sensibilities.
<snips>
> Bela Lugosi needs to be mentioned.
But, as we all know, "Bela Lugosi's Dead".
GAF, eh?
Nyx
news:89b0dc3b.04081...@posting.google.com:
>
> <geek>That's because you did a search on "goth movies" which tells the
> database engine give me anything that has the words "goth" and/or
> "movies". Alvin and the Chimpmunks description was along the lines of
> the chimpmunks go to the MOVIES. That's why that entry was
> there.</geek>
Yeah, so why is goth in the Alvin and the Chipmunks?
Nyx
Joseph Brenner
Nyx <n...@sxxxy.org> writes:
> "IHCOYC XPICTOC" <ihcoyc...@aye.net> wrote:
> > "Masque of the Red Death" - my favourite Vincent Price Poe picture
>
> You could really just list every Vincent Price movie.
Well nearly, though I think you might be getting a false
impression from the fact that Roger Corman directed so many
of them.
Roger Corman, now, you could put every one of his movies on
the list without any problem...
xaoc
> I need your submissions to this vitally important project.
>
> What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
> All Time?
I cast votes for The Hunger and City Of Lost Children...And Tim Burton
movies in general...(except Planet of the Apes, of course...)
All dark, moody films, wrapped up in their own ambience...
--xaoc--
Nyx
news:e2c67691.04081...@posting.google.com:
> I cast votes for The Hunger and City Of Lost Children...And Tim Burton
> movies in general...(except Planet of the Apes, of course...)
How can you like Edward Scissorhands? The chick never sees him again and
lives a horrible suburban life.
It's just so horrible.
Nyx
Greycat
says...
> How can you like Edward Scissorhands? The chick never sees him again and
> lives a horrible suburban life.
But but Edward is so goth! He goes to live in the castle that everyone
is scared of and is alone for the rest of his life while he pines away
for his lady love. That's pretty goth, he just needed to learn to drink
with those hands.
Greycat
WideRedDragon
> Nyx wrote:
>
>> "IHCOYC XPICTOC" <ihcoyc...@aye.net> wrote in news:3dBTc.209644
>> $OB3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>>
>>> "Masque of the Red Death" - my favourite Vincent Price Poe picture
>>
>> You could really just list every Vincent Price movie.
>> I saw one the other day where he was an actor killing all his former
>> critics. That was brilliant.
>
> What, "The Abominable Doctor Phibes"? Talks some guy into wearing a
> special hat that he can't remove, that just gets tighter and tighter
> until his eyes pop out?
It'll be the Theatre of Blood, where he recreats death scenes from his
characters last Shakespeare season on the critics that let him down.
Wonderful film.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070791/
{WrD}
Cavalorn
ay_k...@earthops.net> writes
>Your choices?
The Road To God Knows Where
Wings Of Desire
Wuthering Heights (The Laurence Olivier Version)
The Cabinet Of Doctor Caligari
Jan Svankmeyer's Alice
Name Of The Rose
Roman Polanski's Repulsion
The Cat And The Canary
The Haunting
Night of the Demon
Brimstone and Treacle
Cav
--
Give me a woman who's taken her knocks,
Who's tasted both gutter and stars.
Give me a lady with holes in her socks.
Give me a princess with scars.
Tiny Human Ferret
Did I mention that I also do custom shrubbery? Well, I used to, now I
just hide out in the abandoned laboratory and do weird art.
Tiny Human Ferret
> In article <411EBA13...@earthops.net>, Tiny Human Ferret <ixnayamsp
> ay_k...@earthops.net> writes
>
>>Your choices?
<snips>
> Night of the Demon
Ooo, is that the one where if you get the card, the demon chases you
down and eats you?
I saw part of that when I was maybe 10 or so, scared the crap outta me
and gave me terrible dreams.
As opposed to "Night of the Lepus" after which I still haven't quite
stopped laughing.
Cavalorn
ay_k...@earthops.net> writes
>> Night of the Demon
>
>Ooo, is that the one where if you get the card, the demon chases you
>down and eats you?
That would be the one. Also known as 'Curse of the Demon'. It stars
Dana Andrews and is based on an MR James story called Casting the Runes.
The film is thus the origin of the famous lines
Dana Andrews said prunes
Gave him the runes
And passing them used lots of skills...
>I saw part of that when I was maybe 10 or so, scared the crap outta me
>and gave me terrible dreams.
It's a wonderful, wonderful movie.
Nyx
@news-server.austin.rr.com:
> But but Edward is so goth! He goes to live in the castle that everyone
> is scared of and is alone for the rest of his life while he pines away
> for his lady love. That's pretty goth, he just needed to learn to drink
> with those hands.
No, he should have killed everyone in town with those hands.
Nyx
Nyx
news:cfpit...@enews4.newsguy.com:
> It'll be the Theatre of Blood,
Yeah, that was it. Had Diana Rigg in it, too.
Nyx
Nyx
>
> As opposed to "Night of the Lepus" after which I still haven't quite
> stopped laughing.
>
Giant rabbits, right?
I figure they stole it from The Holy Grail.
Nyx
Nyx
> Did I mention that I also do custom shrubbery?
Bring me a shrubbery!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Nyx
Greycat
says...
See, though, goths don't kill people. they may want to, but they are
usually too busy writing bad poetry or making bad art and weeping into
their drinks.
They mope. Edward was very mopey. hence, it's very goth.
Greycat
jdavyd williams
it didnt search for "goth and movies" it searched for "goth and/or
movies." so, with the description being "the chimpmunks go to the
MOVIES" then it would appear, because it has at least one of the words
you searched for.
refine your "goth movies" search by literally putting it in quotes.
Peter H. Coffin
> I submit that Mr Peter Coffin should be statistician and referee or at
> least the statistician.
Gathering submissions now.... Though, people, please note that I'm only
recording the ones that are suggested in list form, or are otherwise
obviously submissions. Films mentioned in passing discussion (like "Dr.
Phibes") and films mentioned only by reference ("the whole Hammmer
catalog") aren't. I've got lists from you (THF), IX, Cav, xaoc, and Nyx
recorded.
We're going for depth as well as breadth: if you make a list, put what's
important to you on it; don't worry about if a film's been listed
before. If it gets listed twice, the fact that it was listed on two
lists will matter.
--
The plural of datum is not "facts".
A collection of facts is not "knowledge".
Tiny Human Ferret
If he'd learnt how to drink with those hands, that might very well have
been the way it turned out.
alt.gothic OG
It's not, but the word "movies" was. That's why it was displayed in
your search results.
Regards...
Hatter
Nah, he made a lot of schlock westerns that are no more goth than a
penut butter sandwich in a paper sack, but he did make my favorite
b-movie of all time "Deathrace 2000" and any movie that asks the
question "Why do love me, because I kill people?" has to be a least a
little goth.
Hatter
Nyx
@news-server.austin.rr.com:
> See, though, goths don't kill people. they may want to, but they are
> usually too busy writing bad poetry or making bad art and weeping into
> their drinks.
>
I guess I'm just not goth since I kill people.
Nyx
Nyx
@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU:
> refine your "goth movies" search by literally putting it in quotes.
I did. It still comes up with Alvin and the Chipmunks. It also has the
muppets.
What do you think I'm simple or something? I used quotes. I understand
how search engines work. Don't make me bust out the "doing boolean
searches since 1990" rant on you.
Can I suggest that imdb's search sucks?
Nyx
Nyx
>
> It's not, but the word "movies" was. That's why it was displayed in
> your search results.
That's bad search, then. Especially since I put "goth movies" in quotes.
Nyx
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> I guess I'm just not goth since I kill people.
That's _industrial_. I thought everybody knew. . . .
--
Ecce torpet probitas; virtus sepelitur.
Fit jam parca largitas; parcitas largitur.
Verum vincit falsitas, veritas mentitur.
Charles the Gruamach
<ihcoyc...@aye.net> wrote:
>Nyx wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm just not goth since I kill people.
>
>That's _industrial_. I thought everybody knew. . . .
So, I was a Rivethead last year and didn't even know it...hrm,
interesitng.
*stompstompstomp*
--
Charles / the Gruamach (aka "gru")
www.gothcop.com
"Curiosity killed the cat. Passing interest only
injured him."
Charles the Gruamach
>Tiny Human Ferret <ixnayamsp...@earthops.net> wrote in
>news:4120D2D6...@earthops.net:
>
>>
>> As opposed to "Night of the Lepus" after which I still haven't quite
>> stopped laughing.
>>
>
>Giant rabbits, right?
Yep.
>I figure they stole it from The Holy Grail.
Since it was made in the 50's, I doubt it.
On that note, I had a funny "in your face" incident regarding that
movie.
A theater was showin Matrix (this was just before Revolutions came
out) and did a trivia contest before the film.
Theater person: "What was on the TV when Neo visited the Oracle."
Me: "Night of the Lepus!"
TP: "No, it was a rabbit."
me: "Uhm...yea, that's what I said. Giant rabbits. Night of the
Lepus is the name of the movie....or didn't you notice that they were
running down a street knocking cars around and such?"
TP: "Uhm....ok, yea..that's right, I guess....here's your prize."
me: "Thank you. Now, next time, know the answers to your own trivia
questions, please."
*Theater full of people laugh at embarassed theater person*
John Everett
> Your choices?
Knowledge is power: toil and spin, dear lilies -- the drowsy hour is not yet
ripe...
Mike Leigh's _Naked_
Jean-Jacques Annaud's _The Name of the Rose_
The world is always making wonderful new advancements in the name of
Progress...
Ken Russell's _The Devils_
Whit Stillman's _Barcelona_
David Lynch's _Straight Story_
Take time in life to listen to the song of the sirens...
Greg Araki's _Doom Generation_
Luc Besson's _Leon/The Professional_
Gorgons, or monsters without being myths, which seems somewhat unfair...
Richard Day's _Girls Will Be Girls_
Carpe Diem -- Life is short -- Live for the moment -- life is the journey,
not the destination...
Mayor of the Sunset Strip
Party Monsters
At the very edge of the world, the war with the Goblin Men...
John Ford's _The Searchers_
A respectable, orderly family man's home is invaded by a sorceress, his
children are bewitched, and he himself driven to the brink of madness and
beyond...
Robert Stevenson's _Mary Poppins_
Nyx
news:kn83i0h6bgc0d4kd5...@4ax.com:
>>I figure they stole it from The Holy Grail.
>
> Since it was made in the 50's, I doubt it.
>
Really? I thought it was made in the early 70's. Sometimes it's hard to
tell them apart.
Nyx
Jennie Kermode
> What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
> All Time?
> Your choices?
Do we have to vote in order? I hate placing these things in
order. Since I review, I'm continually asked to provide top tens of one
sort or another, and I find it quite distressing. Here, I shall throw
out the titles of ten movies which I think deserve the title, and, if
you want, I'll try to order them in retrospect - but my decision on one
day will be different from my decision on another.
Here goes:-
'Dogs in Space' - I don't think anyone will dispute this.
There are those who will point out that it's more of a post-punk thing,
but it catches the same mood and many goths can be seen in it - iirc,
our own Barbarella was asked to be in it, though she was unable to do
so. I respect the fact that it hits as hard as it does despite the fact
that the guy whose story it told (a friend of my former flatmate Amanda)
disowned it. There's something appropriately tragic about the legend
distorting the life.
'Summer of Sam' - Spike Lee has produced some amazing goth
stuff, though few people seem to be aware of it. The goth and punk
characters are in the background here, but that's where they work - in
the shadows, offering an alternative, holding on, drawing people's
suspicions. The whole idea of building a story around the effects of a
serial killer's presence without focusing on the serial killer himself,
and watching the way the community cannibalises itself, strikes me as
profoundly gothic.
'Picnic at Hanging Rock' - It may be about schoolgirls, but
this is gothic in the older sense, with unresolved mystery and romance
(in the true sense) and an omnipresent sense of danger - not always
unattractive danger, either.
'Carnival of Souls' - I'd venture that part of what's wrong
with kids today on the goth scene is that not enough of them have seen
this film. There are few pieces of cinema more haunting. And you get
zombies, too.
'Repulsion' - Polanski, at his best, is more capable than any
other filmmaker of tunnelling down into the dark desperation which lies
at the heart of human behaviour. Long before Takashi Miike (whose work
will soon, I'm sure, merit a place on a list like this), he was willing
to undertake an unrelenting study of disintegration. Catherine DeNeuve
is also superb here, and is an actress with a strong sense of the
gothic.
'Donnie Darko' - I'm sure everyone here has seen this by now.
Even its sometimes incoherency seems to contribute to its mood, and Jake
Gyllenhaal is perfect.
'Sredni Vashtar' [2003 version] - This film is ten minutes
long, but I challenge you all to find a gother ten minutes anywhere on
celluloid. If you haven't read the Saki short story, do so - it's out
there on the web. Then imagine it still darker and bleaker. Even Faith
and the Muse couldn't render it as goth as this.
'The Company of Wolves' - A lot of Neil Jordan's work has
bordered on the gothic. His use of light is a major factor, coupled with
his understanding of complex human themes, his interest in
imperfections. Developing an Angela Carter story took him all the way.
This, like other films listed above, covers what I consider to be the
defining feature of the gothic where it connects to the goth - the
attraction to otherness and darkness which exists even in a climate of fear.
'Pi' - Besides its black and white intensity, this is a study
of obsession in the finest gothic tradition, and it strikes me that an
obsession with numbers is the purer in this aspect, because it
represents such a longing for and disconnection from the real world.
There's much more here, of course, but those who still haven't seen it
should, and I don't want to give too much away.
'Velvet Goldmine' - For its glorious sense of post-glam
disillusionment and betrayal, for its ephemerality, and because
practically no-one understood it.
We're going to have that 'goth versus gothic' discussion
again, aren't we?
Jennie
--
Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
Jennie Kermode
> "The Cabinet of Dr. Cagliari" - Just for the set designs.
For the ending, too, I should think. I was fortunate enough to
see a new cut of this in the cinema a couple of years ago, more
complete than most. Several of the widely available versions are missing
crucial bits. I'm not sure what the state of play is just now.
> "Kind Hearts and Coronets" - If only for the ending. . . .
> "Masque of the Red Death" - my favourite Vincent Price Poe picture
These are two which I considered for my list. The latter is
also my favourite Price/Poe work; many people dismiss it for its
apparent triviality, but I think that's part of the point, and it
contributes superbly to one of the darkest endings in any film of the
period. There's an atmosphere to this film which has rarely been matched.
Jennie Kermode
> critics. That was brilliant.
'Theatre of Blood'? Yes, that's a classic. Who dares approach
the subject of madness with such passion in this day and age? Most of
our skilled directors are sunk in realism. Only Pedro Almodovar really
seems to be getting there. 'Matador!' came very close to making it onto
my list.
Jennie Kermode
> What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
> All Time?
It strikes me that it would be nice to use this thread to
compile a list of 'movies which are goth' for the web. This could serve
the dual purpose of helping goths find films they might like and of
giving passers-by a better idea of what goth is, at least in terms of
its aesthetic and literary sensibilities. To reduce all the fine ideas
in this thread to a list of just ten films would be a real shame.
Jennie Kermode
> Although the acting is a bit campy.
Gosh, I'd almost forgotten about 'Gothic'. Thankyou for
reminding me that there's a movie I hate as much as 'Dogma'. [1]
Jennie
[1] Before you start with your usual theories, I should note that
seeing your list is proof that we like _some_ of the same films. ;)
Jennie Kermode
> How can you like Edward Scissorhands? The chick never sees him again and
> lives a horrible suburban life.
> It's just so horrible.
Since when is losing one's true love and going on to lead a
miserable life not gothic?
Jennie
Jennie Kermode
> Roman Polanski's Repulsion
I didn't think anyone would vote for this but me... :)
> Brimstone and Treacle
Now this is a good choice, and one which I haven't seen in two
long. And proof, if nothing else, that Sting shopuld have had the chance
to play Steerpike onscreen.
Jennie Kermode
> Jean-Jacques Annaud's _The Name of the Rose_
Interesting to see that this has two votes. It's one I
considered; these lists are always too short.
> Luc Besson's _Leon/The Professional_
I thought about Besson, but would have been more inclined to
go for 'Subway'; it's less refined, and, I think, more atmospheric
because of that.
> At the very edge of the world, the war with the Goblin Men...
> John Ford's _The Searchers_
Yes. It's a fine choice. I did feel my list was somewhat
incomplete without a western, as they've contributed a lot to the gothic
tradition. 'High Plains Drifter' and 'The Beguiled' were tempting me.
Peter H. Coffin
well, for "strip non-alphanumericas, case-insensitive, and only allowing
'match any keyword' searches" values of "sucks", sure. It ain't Google,
and it ain't even regexp.
--
69. All midwives will be banned from the realm. All babies will be delivered
at state-approved hospitals. Orphans will be placed in foster-homes, not
abandoned in the woods to be raised by creatures of the wild.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord
Kina
> Your choices?
See, to me, the obvious choice here would have to be Bambi.
All that death and depression and that talking bunny... it just screams Goth to me.
Plus, it's aimed at children. How twisted.
Kina - getting gothed up by Disney movies since 1942.
Joseph Brenner
Cavalorn <cava...@newaeonbooks.demon.co.uk> writes:
> The Cat And The Canary
Um... with Bob Hope and Paulette Goddard?
Funny, I was just watching a Bob Hope biography on video
tape last night (oh don't ask why), and made a note about
that movie when they flashed a little clip of it.
Joseph Brenner
"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
> Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
> > I submit that Mr Peter Coffin should be statistician and referee or at
> > least the statistician.
>
> Gathering submissions now.... Though, people, please note that I'm only
> recording the ones that are suggested in list form, or are otherwise
> obviously submissions.
Oh, okay, well just to make it easier on you, I'll summarize
my serious suggestions (hope you don't accidentally count
anything twice though, heh heh):
Death Takes a Holiday (1934) - Fredric March
Wings of Desire (1987) - Dir: Wim Wenders
Design for Living (1933) - Fredric March, Gary Cooper, Miriam Hopkins, Dir: Lubitsch
Some further additions:
The Hunger (1983) - Deneuve, Bowie, Sarandon
Sex Lies and Videotape (1989) James Spader
Cyclo (French/Vietnamese, 1995) - Dir: Hung Tran Anh,
Horror Hotel (1960) - Christopher Lee, Venetia Stevenson (?), Dir: John Llewellyn Moxey
Persona (1966) - Dir: Ingmar Bergman
The Undead (1957) - Dir: Roger Corman
The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)
X--The Man with the X-Ray Eyes (1963) - Dir: Roger Corman
Number 17 (1932) - Dir: Alfred Hitchcock
The Litanies of Satan (1985) - Diamanda Galas, live at the Ibeam, Target Video
And... some more additions, though these are pushing the limits
in different directions:
Burning Dreams (Taiwan, 2003) - Dir: Wayne Pang
Morocco (1930) - Marlene Dietrich, Gary Cooper
Macross Plus (1988)
Nyx
news:slrnci3s4f.6gu...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk:
> [1] Before you start with your usual theories, I should note that
> seeing your list is proof that we like _some_ of the same films. ;)
No, actually I hated everything on your list except for Donnie Darko. I
would also include Velvet Goldmine except I think we liked it for
entirely different reasons. Also, I was rather disappointed in the
grittiness of it. It's a three star movie at best.
I can't believe you liked Summer of Sam. That was like some horrible
movie of the week on network tv. Bad but not even in a spectacular way,
like Wild Wild West or Ishtar. It was just boring bad.
Nyx
Nyx
> Since when is losing one's true love and going on to lead a
> miserable life not gothic?
When she dumps your ass for a football player and a pastel suburban tract
home.
If it had ended something like "he kills her, he kills the whole town and
he starts a band" then it would have been goth.
Nyx
Nyx
>
> Some further additions:
>
> The Hunger (1983) - Deneuve, Bowie, Sarandon
> Sex Lies and Videotape (1989) James Spader
Now, are we just doing good movies or goth movies? Because my list would
have been different if it had been non-goth movies. Sex, Lies and
Videotape isn't goth at all but a great movie.
Nyx
H Duffy
Y'know, they actually shot that ending, but after going through six guitars
and three drumkits (and when I say "going through" them, I mean that
literally), they figured "fuck it", and sent him off to do his ice carving
in the castle instead.
H
Cavalorn
<do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> writes
>
>Cavalorn <cava...@newaeonbooks.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> The Cat And The Canary
>
>Um... with Bob Hope and Paulette Goddard?
Yes, the very one!
Cav
--
Give me a woman who's taken her knocks,
Who's tasted both gutter and stars.
Give me a lady with holes in her socks.
Give me a princess with scars.
Peter H. Coffin
Goth movies, but the lister's choice of "what is goth". Argue about it
if you'd like, but the OP's first list is what's recorded.
--
35. I will not grow a goatee. In the old days they made you look diabolic.
Now they just make you look like a disaffected member of Generation X.
xaoc
> xao...@yahoo.com (xaoc) wrote in
> news:e2c67691.04081...@posting.google.com:
>
> > I cast votes for The Hunger and City Of Lost Children...And Tim Burton
> > movies in general...(except Planet of the Apes, of course...)
>
> How can you like Edward Scissorhands? The chick never sees him again and
> lives a horrible suburban life.
>
> It's just so horrible.
>
Well, yeah, at the end..and most of the middle too I guess. But it's
an awfully pretty kind of horrible.
Anyway, suburban life is a choice...even if it's a baffling one...
--xaoc--
xaoc
> > The Hunger (1983) - Deneuve, Bowie, Sarandon
> > Sex Lies and Videotape (1989) James Spader
>
> Now, are we just doing good movies or goth movies? Because my list would
> have been different if it had been non-goth movies. Sex, Lies and
> Videotape isn't goth at all but a great movie.
Sex, Lies and Videotape was on my original list too, and I rejected it
as not goth...although wierd obsessions and a lot of home made video
describes more than a few of my goth-iest friends...
--xaoc--
Nyx
@posting.google.com:
> .although wierd obsessions and a lot of home made video
> describes more than a few of my goth-iest friends...
Yeah, but that's more incidental to goth. Everyone has weird obsessions.
Nyx
Charles the Gruamach
I thought it was one of the many "animals get irradiated and grow
super-big and terrorize the town" movies of the 50's.
Hrm....*GOOGLE*
Seems you're right. 1972.
Wow, funky how I can know a film from a 2-second flash in the
background of another movie, and get a detail as major as when it was
made wrong. Blah. I blame being tired.
Tiny Human Ferret
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:44:17 GMT, "IHCOYC XPICTOC"
> <ihcoyc...@aye.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Nyx wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I guess I'm just not goth since I kill people.
>>
>>That's _industrial_. I thought everybody knew. . . .
>
>
> So, I was a Rivethead last year and didn't even know it...hrm,
> interesitng.
>
>
> *stompstompstomp*
Which brings up something else, harking back to the argument of whether
or not SoM is goth or just Metal way ahead of its day or something.
ISTR that back when the AF was dropping "the big stick" on Tora Bora in
Afghanistan, and also on assorted other cavey hideouts, I was posting in
one of the DC newsgroups that Andrew Eldritch was some sort of prophet
predicting this exact scenario in "Temple of Love". An MP3 of that which
I left conveniently placed for access was downloaded rather a lot from
.mil and .gov domains. I suspect the pilots and targeting techs were
singing it as they unloaded their JDAM.
If that's the case, maybe they are industrial, too. SoM I mean. Tunes to
blow shit up by, ya know.
--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may
often assume the appearance, and produce the effects,
of a treasonable correspondence with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
Tiny Human Ferret
Nah, more like, he fantasizes about all of the above but goes on to
become a certified public accountant with a bitchin collection of CDs
and little rubber bats.
Tiny Human Ferret
Yup, 1972 according to IMDB.
However, there's another Fifties-ish movie which has giant rabbits, the
rather annoying film version of H G Wells's "Food of the Gods", which
was also remade in 1976. The fifties version was not all that bad,
though basically it had a bunch of juvenile delinquents grown to the
size of giants terrorizing the normal people, but IIRC there was a scene
in it where the normal people were revolting and part of their
revolution was a release of giant rabbits.
Joseph Brenner
Joseph Brenner
Nyx <n...@sxxxy.org> writes:
> xao...@yahoo.com (xaoc) wrote:
> > .although wierd obsessions and a lot of home made video
> > describes more than a few of my goth-iest friends...
>
> Yeah, but that's more incidental to goth. Everyone has weird obsessions.
Ah, but the kind of weird obsessions, and maybe more
importantly, the main character's attitudes toward his weird
obessions perhaps bring it into the fold. That strange,
serious stare, embracing, yet hiding from the world...
(and it doesn't hurt that he wears black a lot).
Maybe it's not an accident that someone else was thinking
about it, but balked because it's not stereotypical enough?
I was intentionally shooting for the edges of goth.
The flanks need reinforcements, else the center can not hold.
Tom..
would ignore them. But who better to get information on goth from than the
people of a.g? =)
Hmm.. *looks at his rather shameful list of 3 movies*
Rocky Horror Picture Show
The Crow
The Lost Boys (has anyone mentioned that yet?)
I should really watch more movies..
Last night at a friend's, we were bored about midnight and started watching
a movie halfway through called Haunted Honeymoon. It's got so many bad
reviews but I thought it was brilliant. Ah well, for it's comedic value and
the good looking "haunted" mansion, that can go onto my list as well.
6 more to go until I reach 10.
Tom
----
Selitper lufituaeb eht ssik.
____
Alt.Gothic
Greycat
says...
> Many people could try to make a site about gothic films and books, but some
> would ignore them. But who better to get information on goth from than the
> people of a.g? =)
See, i haven't listed my top ten because when i consider a movie goth,
it has more to do with attitude and style, rather than over all
"sp00ky" ness of the film.
I mean, i think "All About Eve" is pretty GAF. the wit, the banter, and
the general feel of the movie is more goth to me than any "night of a
1000 ninja pirate zombies" type movie.
Greycat
Nighting
"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in message
news:slrnci24t2....@othin.ninehells.com...
> Gathering submissions now....
A few that I haven't seen mentioned:
Cemetary Man: Zombies, existential angst, a hunch-backed assistant, and the
Edge of the World. What more could you want?
Dead Man: Johnny Depp is dying throughout the entire dreamlike movie.
Plus, sociopathic killers and strange visions.
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover: Gruesome poetic revenge, plus
the war between aesthetic sensitivity and the philistines who consume its
fruits, set amid some of the finest sets I've seen.
The Pillow Book: Sex, death, obsession, art... and books written on living
flesh. Plus ritual suicide and a dismembered corpse.
Among those already mentioned, I'll second _The Hunger_ as being the most
goth movie of all time.
Nighting
Joseph Brenner
nige...@aol.com (Hatter) writes:
> Joseph Brenner <do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > Nyx <n...@sxxxy.org> writes:
> >
> > > "IHCOYC XPICTOC" <ihcoyc...@aye.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > "Masque of the Red Death" - my favourite Vincent Price Poe picture
> > >
> > > You could really just list every Vincent Price movie.
> >
> > Well nearly, though I think you might be getting a false
> > impression from the fact that Roger Corman directed so many
> > of them.
> >
> > Roger Corman, now, you could put every one of his movies on
> > the list without any problem...
>
> Nah, he made a lot of schlock westerns that are no more goth than a
> penut butter sandwich in a paper sack, but he did make my favorite
> b-movie of all time "Deathrace 2000" and any movie that asks the
> question "Why do love me, because I kill people?" has to be a least a
> little goth.
Well, I have to confess I've not seen the complete works --
there aren't nearly enough Corman festivals.
I put one of my old favorites on my list ("The Undead"),
and a problematic film that I think qualifies ("The Man With
the X-Ray Eyes"), but skipped some that seemed like they
might take too much shoe-horning, like "It Conquered the World"...
"It Conquered the World" is a great piece of McCarthy-era
mythology, released in 1956, the *same year* as "Invasion of
the Body Snatchers" (was Corman fast, or what?) [1]. Scary
little bat like things swooping down out of the sky,
bleached blondes who've forgotten to touch up their
eyebrows, and an alien master-mind that looks an awful lot
like a giant carrot with an *evil* expression on it's face.
When it finally has to run for it, you can see the 2x4
pushing it out of it's lair.
And I'd forgotten about the closing monolog:
http://www.moria.co.nz/sf/itconquered.htm
"That when we seek such perfection we only find death,
fire, loss, disillusionment, the end of everything
that's gone forward."
Corman presenting his own manifesto?
[1] Or could it be that both were knock-offs of some other
source?
Many people out there on the web suggest that "Invaders from
Mars" is a predecessor from 1953... and the Heinlein novel
"The Puppet-masters" came out in 1951.
ren
10. The Shining, Carrie
9. Heathers, Beetlejuice
Any movie with Johnny Depp that isn't a Western.
8. The Addams Family Movies
Any Tim Burton movie.
7. The Others
6. The Crow
5. Interview With The Vampire (Tom Cruise)
4. The Dead Zone (Christopher Walkin)
3. The Rocky Horror Picture Show
2. Caberet
1. Highlander
0. American Beauty
Tiny Human Ferret
<snips>
> A respectable, orderly family man's home is invaded by a sorceress, his
> children are bewitched, and he himself driven to the brink of madness and
> beyond...
> Robert Stevenson's _Mary Poppins_
John, that is actually perhaps the sole truly-sound deconstruction of
that movie I have ever read.
Me hat is off ta ye. Ya freaky barstid.
Honestly. Top notch.
And, furthermore, penguins dance and wait tables. The origins of Tux,
the Linux mascot?
ren
David "Deprave" Cronenberg
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000343/
Existenz
Nyx
@animal.ultrafeed.com:
> Any movie with Johnny Depp that isn't a Western
He was in a western?
And surely you can't count Don Juan Demarco.
Nyx
James Donovan
>
>
> I need your submissions to this vitally important project.
>
> What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
> All Time?
>
Excluding those which others have mentioned:
Doctor Strangelove (Or how I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb)
The Seventh Seal
Grave of Fireflies
Ed Wood
Metropolis (the Fritz Lang one, not the anime)
Throne of Blood (The Kurosawa flick is far more goffy than MacBeth)
Rosemary's Baby
The Dark Crystal
Shallow Grave
Brazil
--
Regards,
James
Jennie Kermode
> Ah, but the kind of weird obsessions, and maybe more
> importantly, the main character's attitudes toward his weird
> obessions perhaps bring it into the fold. That strange,
> serious stare, embracing, yet hiding from the world...
> (and it doesn't hurt that he wears black a lot).
James Spader playing James Spader, you mean?
Sometimes it works, but it's hardly acting.
The gothiest think I can think of about 'Sex, Lies and
Videotape' would be Laura San Giacomo.
Jennie
--
Jennie Kermode jen...@innocent.com
http://www.triffid.demon.co.uk/jennie
Jennie Kermode
> and a problematic film that I think qualifies ("The Man With
> the X-Ray Eyes"), but skipped some that seemed like they
> might take too much shoe-horning, like "It Conquered the World"...
I love 'The Man with the X-Ray Eyes' - it's an incredible
movie, with powerful ideas, but I find it really hard to get people to
watch it because they assume (based on the title) that it's nothing but
kitsch. The ending is right up there with classic gothic works.
Something else I've yet to see mentioned in this thread is
'Martin'. Granted, it features a character whom we'd normally direct two
doors down, on the left; but in terms of plot and aesthetics, it's
unmistakably gothic. I am continually surprised at the way it's ignored
by the modern media when discussing teenage violence - but then again,
'If' often gets the same treatment.
Tiny Human Ferret
Both of these films are top-notch. Speaking as something of an authority
on the matter, I would classify "Martin" as the best vampire movie ever
made and the only one of which I'm aware that's remotely realistic, and
it manages to do this as well as closely sticking to an awful lot of the
original Balkan/Caucasian legends.
If someone had to nerve to re-make it with slightly higher production
values, it could possibly be a blockbuster, though really I'm quite
happy with it the way that it is.
I wouldn't call it at all Goth, but definitely Gothic. It's also one of
the few movies one's likely to see which does a good job of depicting
the hardscrabble melieu of the transplanted Balkan/Caucasian communities
that wound up settling and working much of the northern Appalachians.
This perfectly depicts the realities of a land where the Germanics came
in first and took all of the best farmlands, and the Irish and Italians
came and settled and built the cities, and the Scots and the
eastern-europeans worked the wealth from the mountains. Strange little
communities that might as well be in Moldova or Wallachia sprouted in
the glens of wintry Pennsylvania and in the new place there are the Old
Ways.
Regardless of any beliefs in unbelievable supernatural causes, the fact
is that bloodsuckers are real, to many of these people. "Martin" is
about a family of dhampir, human beings who have ancestry entertwined
with that of the vampyr. One never knows which of the children will
become the black sheep of the family, but when the signs become
apparent, it is the duty of the family to forestall the emergence of a
monster, or failing that, to destroy it.
Totally unexplored in the movie, though inherent in the unspoken but
well-constructed backdrop of the film, is the horror of the young cousin
who thinks of herself as a thoroughly American modern girl, who
discovers that not only is her distant relative, Martin, believed to be
a vampire, but he also believes himself to be one, and he is believed to
be one by her elder caretaker and grandfather, a traditionalist from the
Old Country. In a very short speech, the ranting elder delivers a rather
astonishing insight to the young woman, of how Martin matured and showed
the signs and was sent off to the relatives who lived that life, and
they could not raise him to live properly for such as who live that
life, and remanded him to the care of the side of the family who do not
live that life. Martin is, not to mince words, rather dimwitted and
generally a spooky freak of the sort that one prefers to see kept locked
in their relatives' basements... but unfortunately, whether or not it's
all just in his dull little mind, Martin has needs to get out of the
house now and then to catch a quick meal. The young girl's horror is
only increased as she comes to understand that her grandfather is, or
says he is, _younger_ than Martin, who seems barely an adult; her horror
is more increased as she comes to understand that her grandfather seeks
to prepare her to assume the role of custodian of Martin, a custody that
will be for the life of Martin, or herself, whichever ends sooner.
Aside from the horror-story aspects of the tale, this is one of the
better films exploring a phenomenon generally regarded as peculiarly
American; entire cultures transplanted themselves from the Old World and
changed the old language for the new English speech, but otherwise carry
on, with new technology, the old ways and traditions, for better or for
worse. And as the young grow up, they think themselves to be thoroughly
modern Americans, but the old ways, and the old folks, do not so easily
relenquish their impositions upon those who mistakenly thought that
because they were born here, they were the same as anyone else, with the
same limitless options of freedom from duty and hope for a life all of
their own.
Family curses, spooky atmosphere, freaky old-country relatives who might
be mad but perhaps aren't crazy, moments of realistic and extremely
violent horror which doesn't quite exceed the horror of impending family
calamity pervading this film, all of these make "Martin" quite a fine
example of the Gothic Film.
------
"X the Man with the X-Ray Eyes" is indeed a classic and has to be seen
to be believed. It's not "all that" but it does get off from a fairly
slow start and becomes a nice cautionary tale about addiction.
Tiny Human Ferret
<snips>
> The Pillow Book: Sex, death, obsession, art... and books written on living
> flesh. Plus ritual suicide and a dismembered corpse.
Eating Raoul?
Joseph Brenner
Greycat <*greycat*@*gmail*.*com*> writes:
> kori...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Many people could try to make a site about gothic films and books, but some
> > would ignore them. But who better to get information on goth from than the
> > people of a.g? =)
>
> See, i haven't listed my top ten because when i consider a movie goth,
> it has more to do with attitude and style, rather than over all
> "sp00ky" ness of the film.
>
> I mean, i think "All About Eve" is pretty GAF. the wit, the banter, and
> the general feel of the movie is more goth to me than any "night of a
> 1000 ninja pirate zombies" type movie.
And my contention is that maybe we shouldn't be so reluctant
to list movies like that. If it's supposed to just be a
list of things that are indisputably, stereotypically,
"goth", we're just going to end up with a bunch of horror
movies.
It's a much more interesting project to think about the
movies that you like, and ask yourself if you're interested
in them because they resonate with your inner gothiness...
Joseph Brenner
Jennie Kermode <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Joseph Brenner <do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > Ah, but the kind of weird obsessions, and maybe more
> > importantly, the main character's attitudes toward his weird
> > obessions perhaps bring it into the fold. That strange,
> > serious stare, embracing, yet hiding from the world...
> > (and it doesn't hurt that he wears black a lot).
>
> James Spader playing James Spader, you mean?
> Sometimes it works, but it's hardly acting.
Range is an overrated quality in actors. There's nothing
wrong with using a natural that doesn't have pretend.
> The gothiest think I can think of about 'Sex, Lies and
> Videotape' would be Laura San Giacomo.
Well, she's got that wild girl edge to her... Admittedly
the movie loses some points for Andie MacDowell (or whatever
her name is).
Nighting
"ren" <ren...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:hlUUc.34936
> Any movie with Johnny Depp that isn't a Western.
I can only assume you mean Dead Man, but can't for the life of me see why
you exclude it, especially when you allow Donnie Brasco, Nick of Time, Blow,
The Astronaut's Wife, and the gawdawful Crybaby.
Nighting
Greycat
says...
> I can only assume you mean Dead Man, but can't for the life of me see why
> you exclude it, especially when you allow Donnie Brasco, Nick of Time, Blow,
> The Astronaut's Wife, and the gawdawful Crybaby.
WHAT? "Crybaby" is hilarious. Not goth, yes, but very very funny! Lots
of campy fun time.
Greycat
Joseph Brenner
Joseph Brenner <do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> writes:
> "Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>
> > Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
> > > I submit that Mr Peter Coffin should be statistician and referee or at
> > > least the statistician.
> >
> > Gathering submissions now.... Though, people, please note that I'm only
> > recording the ones that are suggested in list form, or are otherwise
> > obviously submissions.
>
> Oh, okay, well just to make it easier on you, I'll summarize
> my serious suggestions (hope you don't accidentally count
> anything twice though, heh heh):
Maybe I should expand on this posting a bit (but careful,
don't count anything three times, heh heh):
> Death Takes a Holiday (1934) - Fredric March
> Wings of Desire (1987) - Dir: Wim Wenders
> Design for Living (1933) - Fredric March, Gary Cooper, Miriam Hopkins, Dir: Lubitsch
This is another very border-line one, there are a number of
points of contact between the goth world and this, but it's
wrapped around a romantic comedy core that some would say
disqualifies it.
> Some further additions:
>
> The Hunger (1983) - Deneuve, Bowie, Sarandon
> Sex Lies and Videotape (1989) James Spader
> Cyclo (French/Vietnamese, 1995) - Dir: Hung Tran Anh,
Cyclo is a movie about a Vietnamese pedicab driver that
gets involved with some local gangsters, one of whom is
an infinitely sad, elegant young man in a white suit
known as The Poet. There's a sub-plot about the Poet
gradually breaking in a woman as a sex worker (the
sister of the pedicab driver). Brief summary:
Assignment, assasination; drug freakout; body painting;
fish tank destruction; and a sentimental streak in the
vicious mobster boss-lady. Beautiful, twisted cinematography.
> Horror Hotel (1960) - Christopher Lee, Venetia Stevenson (?), Dir: John Llewellyn Moxey
A basic gothic horror set-up that veers into a strangely
powerful Christian Mythos finish -- the dying man staggers
through the graveyard with a large cross in his arms,
using it's shadow to burn the witches, to the sounds of
some furious choral music.
> Persona (1966) - Dir: Ingmar Bergman
A romantic, existential psychological ailment: a refusal to speak.
Two (very pretty) women get deeper and deeper into each other's
heads. The perversity of human relationships.
Trivia: Paglia named her first book after this movie.
> The Undead (1957) - Dir: Roger Corman
Time travel via hypnotic regression to past
incarnations. A prostitute is returned to the life of a
woman about to burned for witchcraft. She interferes
with the past, and in concern about the time travel
paradox, they *send a second person* down the same
hypnotic regression link. He steals the armor of a
knight, which he wears through the rest of the movie.
Gravedigger ditties as comedic relief. The devil,
looking much like The Master in a red suit, holding a
very stylish pitchfork. The conundrum: die your fated
death now for the sake of your future lives or live as
well as you can with what you've got. A character
trapped in the past, as punishment for his hubris.
You get it? This a pretty fucking strange melange of stuff.
I'm suprised that more people don't know about this movie.
> The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)
> X--The Man with the X-Ray Eyes (1963) - Dir: Roger Corman
More on that elsewhere.
> Number 17 (1932) - Dir: Alfred Hitchcock
There are some excellent atmospherics in the first half
or so of this movie. The kind of thing that's inspired more
satires ("The Cat and the Canary"?) than ever were originals.
Though I dunno, maybe I should've put the Vincent Price
"Haunting of Hill House" on the list... I'd have to see
it again though, I just have childhood memories to go by.
(Has *anyone* voted for a haunted-house movie? Peculiar.)
> The Litanies of Satan (1985) - Diamanda Galas, live at the Ibeam, Target Video
Diamanda Galas needs no introduction, I presume. This
material is prime Galas (though a little before her
artistic peak with "Plauge Mass" [1]). The visuals on
this are largely close-ups of her face as she
sings/shrieks into a microphone held in each fist
(in glittering black-network gloves), but just as the
vocals use industrial echo loops for rhythm, the visuals
use similar overlays and distortions in a way that's
very appropriate.
Technically a video release, not film, but who wants to
get technical about those kind of technicalities?
[1] It's a little presumptious to talk about someone's
peak when she's still doing good work, but I honestly
don't expect her to do anything better than "Plauge Mass"...
it's extremely rare for anyone to get up to that level.
Well, I'm slowing down here, so more on the following
ones later (hope they don't get counted four times, eh?):
> And... some more additions, though these are pushing the limits
> in different directions:
>
> Burning Dreams (Taiwan, 2003) - Dir: Wayne Pang
> Morocco (1930) - Marlene Dietrich, Gary Cooper
> Macross Plus (1988)
Hatter
> In article <Xns95478D18...@216.196.97.136>, n...@sxxxy.org
> says...
> > Greycat <*greycat*@*gmail*.*com*> wrote in news:MPG.1b89e764f7cd0af09896b6
> > @news-server.austin.rr.com:
> >
> > > But but Edward is so goth! He goes to live in the castle that everyone
> > > is scared of and is alone for the rest of his life while he pines away
> > > for his lady love. That's pretty goth, he just needed to learn to drink
> > > with those hands.
> >
> > No, he should have killed everyone in town with those hands.
>
> See, though, goths don't kill people. they may want to, but they are
> usually too busy writing bad poetry or making bad art and weeping into
> their drinks.
>
> They mope. Edward was very mopey. hence, it's very goth.
>
> Greycat
Hey remember when he got angry he left a few people scared and did
some vandalism. Then he went to mope.
Your quite correct, in fact whe he mopes he makes art. Enough art to
cause weather patterns. That's deep goth boy moping fantasy if I've
ever seen one.
Hatter
Joseph Brenner
Nyx <n...@sxxxy.org> writes:
> Tiny Human Ferret <ixnayamsp...@earthops.net> wrote:
> > Your choices?
>
> Heathers.
> Donnie Darko.
> Apocalypse Now
> Blade Runner
> Ghost World
And you were hassling me about "Sex Lies and Videotape"?
> Lair of the White Worm
I was just kidding about this one, myself, but whatever.
Joseph Brenner
Jennie Kermode <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Joseph Brenner <do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > I put one of my old favorites on my list ("The Undead"),
> > and a problematic film that I think qualifies ("The Man With
> > the X-Ray Eyes"), but skipped some that seemed like they
> > might take too much shoe-horning, like "It Conquered the World"...
>
> I love 'The Man with the X-Ray Eyes' - it's an incredible
> movie, with powerful ideas, but I find it really hard to get people to
> watch it because they assume (based on the title) that it's nothing but
> kitsch. The ending is right up there with classic gothic works.
Yes, exactly. What an astoundingly deceptive title! Ah,
the slimey genius of Roger Corman.... He brings in the
teens expecting spying-on-the-girls-locker-room titlation,
and instead they get a tortured man who has attacks where
he sees too far, sees through everything, and is confronted
by a giant eye staring back at him. The eye of god?
His own eye peering around the curve of space?
It's interesting to think that a movie like that could once
slip through the cracks and end up on television for my
eight year old mind to puzzle over...
http://www.grin.net/~mirthles/doomfiles/ALPHAVILLE.html
> Something else I've yet to see mentioned in this thread is
> 'Martin'. Granted, it features a character whom we'd normally direct two
> doors down, on the left; but in terms of plot and aesthetics, it's
> unmistakably gothic. I am continually surprised at the way it's ignored
> by the modern media when discussing teenage violence - but then again,
> 'If' often gets the same treatment.
Ah, I forgot about "If..." (haven't seen "Martin" myself).
I was thinking about the way a movie like "If..." can seem
nice and edgy and maybe revolutionary, but now if you tried
to do a revival of it you end up back in Columbine.
(There are a lot of things to like about "If...", but on
first viewing I was annoyed that it didn't seem to quite
hang together... like the switches between color and black
and white seemed more random than significant, being weird
for the sake of being weird. But still, there are things to
like about it... the gradually increasing frequency of
absurd touches... that piece of African music the Malcom
McDowell character is obsessed with... If someone put it on
their personal goth list I certainly wouldn't complain.)
Nyx
news:MPG.1b8efacac...@news-server.austin.rr.com:
>> I can only assume you mean Dead Man, but can't for the life of me see
>> why you exclude it, especially when you allow Donnie Brasco, Nick of
>> Time, Blow, The Astronaut's Wife, and the gawdawful Crybaby.
>
> WHAT? "Crybaby" is hilarious. Not goth, yes, but very very funny! Lots
> of campy fun time.
And Donnie Brasco is one of the great mafia movies of all time.
Nyx
Nyx
> And you were hassling me about "Sex Lies and Videotape"?
Hey, Enid is GAF.
Nyx
Dan
wrote:
The first film my parents let me stop up late to watch was Carry on
Screaming...
Daniel
www.strangerover.net
Joseph Brenner
"IHCOYC XPICTOC" <ihcoyc...@aye.net> writes:
> Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
>
> > IX is probably right, Vincent Price is probably the archetype of Goth
> > sensibilities.
>
> I'd say that the Vincent Price AIP pictures and the Hammer Christopher Lee
> Dracula pictures are the two bodies of work that lie at the foundation; all
> that comes afterwards derives in some sense from these.
>
> Bela Lugosi needs to be mentioned. The 1931 Dracula is the obvious choice,
> so I will choose instead "Mystery of the Marie Celeste." Somewhat hard to
> find, but worth looking for.
Yes, I was wondering why no one picked Lugosi's Dracula.
I watched it again on videotape last night, trying to
decide if I was being too gothically-correct in not
picking it myself (doing so might play into a, shall we
say, harmful sterotype).
Some pretty nice settings. Some godawful acting and dialog
on the part of the nervous villagers. Nice images here and
there, like Dracula's three "wives" drifting in through a
doorway in formation.
The flapper babe finds Drac "fascinating", which is perhaps
where we cross over from the gothic to the goth.
As far as acting goes, I think I liked Renfield better than
Dracula... Lugosi staring at the camera with some flashlights
pointed at his eyes, that bit gets old...
Mostly I was struck by the fact that they seemed to presume
that the audience was already reasonably familiar with the
vampire schtick. Explanations are presented, but relatively
late in the movie... early on they have a villager name drop
"nosferatu". The silent film must have still been in the
public mind back in 1931...
I think my favorite touch was the armadillos.
I'd forgotten the armadillos.
Nighting
"Nyx" <n...@sxxxy.org> wrote in message
news:Xns954AE0AA...@216.196.97.136...
> Greycat <*greycat*@*gmail*.*com*> wrote in
> news:MPG.1b8efacac...@news-server.austin.rr.com:
>
> >> I can only assume you mean Dead Man, but can't for the life of me see
> >> why you exclude it, especially when you allow Donnie Brasco, Nick of
> >> Time, Blow, The Astronaut's Wife, and the gawdawful Crybaby.
> >
> > WHAT? "Crybaby" is hilarious. Not goth, yes, but very very funny! Lots
> > of campy fun time.
You're sicker than I ever imagined.
>
> And Donnie Brasco is one of the great mafia movies of all time.
That's my point. And The Astronaut's Wife was a pretty decent thriller.
But neither of them had anything remotely gothy about them, except for the
haze of glory that trails Depp in whatever role he's in.
Nighting
Blue Lady
> > I need your submissions to this vitally important project.
> >
> > What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most Goth Movies of
> > All Time?
> >
I feel a bit self-concious posting these...
- The Exorcist: The color version. Mph. I know, I know,
stereotypical and "popular". But I liked it. Especially when someone
ended up dying by hurling himself through a window. Not so much Goth
as Blasphemic, but the two do tend to mingle at times. :P
- Moulin Rouge: (hides in closet) Shame overcomes me. Ack. Well,
they wear rather interesting outfits, and the girl dies tragically at
the very moment her true love wins her from the evil duke, as a result
of a horrible blood-coughing disease. And there's songs. Lots of
songs. Tragic, angsty songs. What more could you want?
- The Addams Family: Technically a TV show, but they have numerous
videos. Ah, I'm terribly biased on making this choice. My
true-to-life last name is Addams. You wouldn't believe the number of
times I've heard the bloody theme song hollered at me...
- Hamlet: Any good version, really. I'd love to put up Macbeth or
Titus Andronicus, but the sad fact is that there ARE no good versions
of either. Bugger. Well, someone will simply have to put up a list
of good gothic plays.
- West Side Story: (resumes former position in closet) All right,
that's two musicals so far. But it's gritty, and involves street
fights. And three people die in said fights, one of whom is the
leading girl's true love. Has messages about racism. Goth in a way,
sort of like, oh, if only a goth had been around to set them straight!
V. sad.
- Fantasia: The original one. ^^; musical? I watched it over and
over as a kid; there are the happy parts, and then... The ending with
the scary monsters rising from the dead, and dancing around the devil,
always used to scare me. I would hide under my blankie and peek out
from where they "couldn't see me". But then sometimes I would dance
along with them. I was creepy as a child.
- The Dark Crystal: Muppets that look like rotting, bird-beaked
corpses with minions like giant, hideous roaches; they steal the
"essence", or soul, of the little Pod people by forcing them to gaze
into the Dark Crystal, and then drink the essence themselves, to
regain their youth. Two little kid-like things, the last of their
species, have to stop them from gaining eternal life by healing the
crystal. Aww. So .... cute when they're in despair....
- Interview With the Vampire: Purely for the blonde-ness of Lestat,
and his decadent blood-drinking. Brad Pitt, however, is... Brad Pitt.
It's classic. Ah well. Everone's seen it, at one point or another.
- Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Oooh, I simply adore this movie.
The director's making another, with Jet Li. Ooooh. J'adore. Lots of
plot, lots of hidden romance. And lots of martial arts. Heh. Well,
the second girl isn't exactly a ninja, though she does dress the part.
And of course, one of the lovers dies tragically and heart-breakingly
in the end.
- The English Patient: Again, merely gritty and sad. You see,
through a series of flashbacks, the former life of a pilot whose face
is a mask of burns from a fire when his plane went down, and whom
everyone simply leaves to die; except for a kind nurse. Very very
very very very sad. His life just sort of peters out to a stop...
and his past is exceedingly tragic.
Not exactly Goth, but I do like them. And most of them are angst- and
romance-ridden. Love is always good when it's tragic. And now, I
must go, because my cat is sneezing.
Nyx
news:UoGdnQzLAOn...@comcast.com:
> That's my point. And The Astronaut's Wife was a pretty decent
> thriller. But neither of them had anything remotely gothy about them,
> except for the haze of glory that trails Depp in whatever role he's
> in.
>
Oh. That's what I was saying about Sex, Lies and Videotape. Just because
the movie is good doesn't make it goth.
Nyx
The Emperor Penguin
> > I submit that Mr Peter Coffin should be statistician and referee or at
> > least the statistician.
>
> Gathering submissions now [...] We're going for depth as well as breadth:
From a quick trawl of IMDB's ratings, plus a few which came to mind as
I did so,
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
It's cheesy and fun and I like it, regardless of your opinions of
it's bastard offspring.
Batman 0, 1 & 2
Where 0 = the camp sixties one, and 1 & 2 are the Tim Burton ones.
(Meeow.)
La Femme Nikita
Or indeed any Luc Besson film. Or any Anne Parillaud film. Or any
Luc Besson/Anne Parillaud film. But not "Assassin". Ptheh!
Se*en
Probably more industrial than goth, but I'm including it anyway.
Manhunter
From before Hannibal Lecter was famous.
Cyrano de Bergerac
The Depardue one. Just gothasallfuck.
Episode V.
You will surrender to the dark side.
The Piano
For such a healthy, outdoorsy place, there's something very goth
about NZ. I blame the rugby strips.
Amadeus
Sex, death, obsession, alcoholism, angst, big hair and sillyness
The Princess Bride
Just 'cos. Alright?
Spartacus
They all die at the end. (Oops - did I just spoil that for
someone?)
King Kong
If I need to explain this to you...
Sleeping Beauty (Disney)
The artwork is very impressive.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
Tim Burton. Jack Skellington. 'Nuff said.
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
More hippy than goth in look, but that Roald Dahl evil streak is
maintained throughout.
The Wicker Man
Perhaps an unusual choice given what happens to the man in the smart
black gear...
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
I'm sure an afficianado of the genre could name far more goth films
martial arts films, but I'm not, and this one is more than goth enough
to count, IMHO.
I may go through and second a few of other people's nominations later.
Then again, I may not.
I wanted to nominate "To Catch a Thief", because Cary Grant is just
so, well, Cary Grant, he ought to be on the list for something, and
it's about a cat-burglar, which is kinda goth, but I couldn't quite
bring myself to. Someone with a better knowledge of Hitchcock films
than I should speak up, by the way. Rope? Vertigo? I've not seen
either all the way through, but I there has to be a nomination or two
amongst his work.
~~~
The Emperor Penguin
Greycat
emperor...@virgin.net says...
> Cyrano de Bergerac
> The Depardue one. Just gothasallfuck.
Seconded!! I bought this on DVD the day after it came on on DVD. i
waited 10+ years, damn it. It's definitely GAF - great costumes,
unrequited love, death, poetry, etc etc. Just damn goth.
> Sleeping Beauty (Disney)
> The artwork is very impressive.
Oh yes. Even though true love won in the end, the artwork was amazing
and there is no gothier a Disney villian.
Ohh, that reminds me, has anyone mentioned Legend yet?
Greycat
Joseph Brenner
James Donovan <jdon...@dcn.davis.ca.us> writes:
> Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
>
> > I need your submissions to this vitally important project.
> > What _are_ the Top Ten (or Top Twenty, or Top 100) Most
> > Goth Movies of All Time?
> Excluding those which others have mentioned:
A violation of the rules! Peter's going to rank stuff in
terms of numbers of mentions, and if you don't say
"The Hunger", you risk handing the throne to the Burton/Depp
combine...
> Grave of Fireflies
Kind of on the slooow and Dramatic side, if you ask me
(rather than Melodramic, which is much more goth [1]).
But I sympathize with the problem: it certainly seems like
there ought to be *some* anime on the list, but I had a hard
time choosing an appropriate one.
Sure, "The Ghost in the Shell" is great, but it's more on
the industrial/cyberpunk side of things.
"Akira" had some really nice surrealistic bits, but it
wasn't sustained enough to qualify.
I don't know why I didn't go for "Princess Mononoke".
There's certainly quite a bit of nice goth imagery in that
one... Maybe because it's got that "fantasy for thirteen
year old girls" vibe to a lot of it? Probably not a
good enough reason...
Anyway, when I first mulled it over I settled on
"Macross Plus", which at least has decent music that's
goth-friendly, if not exactly goth.
[1] My first encounter with the word "melodramatic" was
"The TV Guide", which inexplicably used it as a genre label to
indicate horror movies (e.g. the Lugosi Dracula).
(Yes, learning to read from the TV Guide...)
Joseph Brenner
Joseph Brenner <do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> writes:
> Joseph Brenner <do...@kzsu.stanford.edu> writes:
> Well, I'm slowing down here, so more on the following
> ones later (hope they don't get counted four times, eh?):
>
> > And... some more additions, though these are pushing the limits
> > in different directions:
Okay, here we go again.
> > Burning Dreams (Taiwan, 2003) - Dir: Wayne Pang
This is a totally superb documentary about dance school
located in Shanghai that specializes in jazz/rock dance
(the instructor idolizes Gene Kelley).
The opening sequence: A young asian woman in black,
unfolding against the Shanghai skyline, going into a
dance that threatens to become trite, but crosses over
into something like a catalog of standard female dance
moves.
There's a lot of footage of the students, who are
largely cute young asian girls (this movie is not
exactly hard on the eyes). They say many of the
things that you might expect them to say, about how
they enjoy dance as an expression of their inner
emotions... then they go back to drilling, trying to
perfect the moves they're being taught.
But ah, the closing sequence: it opens with the dance
instructor ranting, angry about the sequence that
they're about to film. Then one of the young male
dancers comes out, in tight hot pants and ripped up
shirt, and begins going totally beserk, attempting to
do some sort of break-dancing spin on his shoulders,
screwing it up and flopping over, then getting up and
trying to do it over again and again. Throughout he
keeps screaming "No one can stop me from being a
dancer!" and "I am going to be an international star!"
Everyone regards this young man as a sad failure, and a
dangerous maverick, but *this* is clearly self-expression,
and the most emotionally effective dance piece in movie.
> > Morocco (1930) - Marlene Dietrich, Gary Cooper
Marlene Dietrich is a fine example of a proto-goth, if you
ask me, and the closing fade! Ah...
> > Macross Plus (1988)
Just touched on that elsewhere, so that's it. I think
I'm out of excuses to keep replying to my own post.
James Donovan
>>Excluding those which others have mentioned:
>
>
> A violation of the rules! Peter's going to rank stuff in
> terms of numbers of mentions, and if you don't say
> "The Hunger", you risk handing the throne to the Burton/Depp
> combine...
But Burton/Depp is sacrosanct, and I /did/ list Ed Wood. If you /do/
insist, add:
Masque of the Red Death
City of Lost Children
Velvet Goldmine
Lugosi's Dracula
Edward Scissorhands
Blade Runner
Heathers
Repulsion
The Hunger
>
>
>>Grave of Fireflies
>
>
> Kind of on the slooow and Dramatic side, if you ask me
> (rather than Melodramic, which is much more goth [1]).
>
> But I sympathize with the problem: it certainly seems like
> there ought to be *some* anime on the list, but I had a hard
> time choosing an appropriate one.
Same here. I went with Grave of Fireflies because of the hopeless
Romanticism. For fuck's sake, the protagonist sacrificed everything to
keep the only living person he loved (his sister) happy, until she died,
and ended up wasting away to a starved, likely consumptive, corpse at a
Tokyo train station. It was also the most recent full-length anime I've
seen recently, I've been renting Lain and Noir in lieu of "movies"
lately ($DEITY I love Le Video).
> I don't know why I didn't go for "Princess Mononoke".
> There's certainly quite a bit of nice goth imagery in that
> one... Maybe because it's got that "fantasy for thirteen
> year old girls" vibe to a lot of it? Probably not a
> good enough reason...
Well, it did reference a minority culture in Japan which was essentially
wiped out as a distinct entity, which detracts somewhat from the
little'un vibe. And Neil Gaiman /did/ work on the dubbed version. I
didn't pick it, tho, because I couldn't decide whether Mononoke or
Spirited Away deserved my vote.
>
> Anyway, when I first mulled it over I settled on
> "Macross Plus", which at least has decent music that's
> goth-friendly, if not exactly goth.
>
I can see that, although I'm not a big Macross fan.
--
Regards,
James
Tom..
> Sex, death, obsession, alcoholism, angst, big hair and sillyness
We were shown some of this in a class about a month ago. It still confuses
me why everyone was laughing when someone was sad, or bleeding..
> The Princess Bride
> Just 'cos. Alright?
*seconds*
> Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
> More hippy than goth in look, but that Roald Dahl evil streak is
> maintained throughout.
Well, don't forget what happens to each child.
First one is sucked through a pipe (with very little oxygen) and has his fat
squeezed out.
Second is turned into a giant human-blueberry.
Third is thrown down a rubbish chute by evil squirrels. (Perfect..)
Fourth is split into a million pieces and put together about an eighth of
his original size.
Even the hero's house, which his family had struggled to buy, gets crushed
without a care, by a large glass box falling from the sky.