[Even More OT] Perhaps I Should be Less Confident In My Knowledge.
Tiny Human Ferret
A few weeks ago I posted something brief about going on my usual walk
and seeing a rather large and handsome King Snake, who was sunning
himself at the edge of a bike path.
Here is a fairly representative photo of a King Snake, of the variety
also known as a "chain snake":
Here's another, which quite resembled the snake I saw back then:
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/17572jeffersonking3may04-med.JPG
Really rather handsome, isn't it?
Well, yesterday, a rather chilly day in which the air temperature didn't
rise much above the 60s though the sun was quite warming -- bit of acld
snap hereabouts -- I was out on my usual walk, and in right about the
same place I'd seen the kingsnake sunning itself, I encountered another
snake of about the same size. At first I thought it was the same snake,
and went to go break a branch in case I wanted to handle him, and I
fashioned myself a snake stick.
Coming back to see this fellow, I realized he was in fact rather thick
through the middle, and figured he must have just devoured a rat. The
snake just sort of sat there. After a bit of prodding near him, he
decided to turn and head back towards the water. Taking a bit of a
closer look at him, I was trying to see if perhaps he had a wedge-shaped
head like a rattler or copperhead, and he didn't, so based on this
criteria, I got a bit cavalier.
He certainly wasn't aggressive, not very active at all. He crawled off
of the path and draped himself over some rocks. I prodded him gently,
and he (or she) coiled up a bit but didn't strike at the stick. I was
tempted to pick him up but decided against is, as I was increasingly
suspicious that it wasn't a kingsnake. Coming home, I decided to do a
bit of research.
The "cottonmouth" or "water moccasin" _Agkistrodon piscivorus_ is not
normally found much north of central Virginia, so I didn't think that
this could be such. But looking over a lot of pictures of water snakes,
I did find a picture of a snake very similar indeed to the one I had
been poking.
http://www.pestproducts.com/images/ctad.jpg
From http://www.parcplace.org/education/pdf/CottonmouthFS.pdf
<quote in-part>
Identification
Cottonmouths are often difficult for the lay person to identify
because the snakes exhibit so many variations in color and pattern.
They are generally dull-colored with broad, thick heads.
The dorsal pattern may appear in irregular diamonds or
irregular bands and the color varies from dark brownish-green
to copper to almost black. The background color varies from
tan to olive. It is not uncommon to find solid-colored,
unpatterned cotton-mouths. Age also makes a difference in
coloration; the juveniles may be a vivid copper and
old cottonmouths may be a gray-black.
</quote>
Well, this rather thick-through-the-middle fellow was of a generally
dark olive color, no diamondish patterns but rather a sort of irregular
brown-olive color reticulation or banding.
Further,
<quote in-part>
According to research performed at SREL, cottonmouths did not bite when
gently nudged by booted foot but occasionally did bite when stepped upon
and frequently bit when picked up.
</quote>
Aside from the white-mouth display, which I didn't see, this is pretty
much the fellow I was annoying yesterday:
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/kkrysko-Apiscivorus.jpg
For more detail, see
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/Agkistrodonpconanti.htm
But please also see
http://www.angelfire.com/tx3/reptile/images/cottoneast.jpg
and notice how similar it appears to the kingsnake at
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/17572jeffersonking3may04-med.JPG
I suppose I should be rather more cautious in the future, as it would
appear that there is at least one rather large Cottonmouth to be found
north of the Dismal Swamp.
--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may
often assume the appearance, and produce the effects,
of a treasonable correspondence with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
The Emperor Penguin
> A few weeks ago I posted something brief about going on my usual walk
> and seeing a rather large and handsome King Snake, who was sunning
> himself at the edge of a bike path.
> http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/17572jeffersonking3may04-med.JPG
>
> Really rather handsome, isn't it?
He's cute.
> Well, yesterday, [..] I encountered another
> snake of about the same size. At first I thought it was the same snake,
> and went to go break a branch in case I wanted to handle him, and I
> fashioned myself a snake stick.
<snip>
> He certainly wasn't aggressive, not very active at all. He crawled off
> of the path and draped himself over some rocks. I prodded him gently,
> and he (or she) coiled up a bit but didn't strike at the stick. I was
> tempted to pick him up but decided against is, as I was increasingly
> suspicious that it wasn't a kingsnake. Coming home, I decided to do a
> bit of research.
<snip>
> <quote in-part>
> According to research performed at SREL, cottonmouths did not bite when
> gently nudged by booted foot but occasionally did bite when stepped upon
> and frequently bit when picked up.
> </quote>
>
> Aside from the white-mouth display, which I didn't see, this is pretty
> much the fellow I was annoying yesterday:
>
> http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/kkrysko-Apiscivorus.jpg
> I suppose I should be rather more cautious in the future, as it would
> appear that there is at least one rather large Cottonmouth to be found
> north of the Dismal Swamp.
I've never heard of a snake that particularly objected to being held,
especially one which is basking as it starts digesting a big meal.
Assuming your snake-stick was of effective design, and (more
importantly, obviously) you actually know what you're doing with it,
you wouldn't have been in much danger.
The dangerous bit is when some idiot just reaches out to grab it,
doing a very good impression of a predator striking, from the where
the snake's sitting. Once you've actually got it properly picked up,
the dangerous bit's over.
Until it comes time to let it go again, anyway.
~~~
The Emperor Penguin
siani evans
> The dangerous bit is when some idiot just reaches out to grab it,
> doing a very good impression of a predator striking, from the where
> the snake's sitting.
unless they're very good at it. that was my trademark move as a kid - i
could get a fleeing snake right behind the head. :) i tried it again
at the petshop i worked at when we found a snake loose in the shop and
some girls got panicky, and i could still do it then. i just about shit
myself when we got the snake in a tank and it sat there curled up,
rattling its tail...[1]
siani
[1] it was a false rattler. but i freaked before i took a close look.
--
\\||//
- oo -
-|--|- (hedgehog)
siani evans
> [1] it was a false rattler. but i freaked before i took a close look.
to be fair, i had seen it shaking its tail, but without the dry bedding
it didn't rattle, so i didn't think about it...
Tiny Human Ferret
Hah. Sounds like the good ol'Hog-Nosed Snake. They will coil up and
rattle their tails against leaves, and when that doesn't work, rool over
and play dead. If you flip them back over on their stomach, they will
promptly roll over and play dead again. Not very convincing.
The Emperor Penguin
>
> > The dangerous bit is when some idiot just reaches out to grab it,
> > doing a very good impression of a predator striking, from the where
> > the snake's sitting.
>
> unless they're very good at it. that was my trademark move as a kid - i
Which is the trick. If it's sitting waiting on you, odds are you're
going to end up with some impressive puncture wounds.
Though it must be added that humans have a reaction time and speed of
movement which compares favourably with snakes, similes
notwithstanding.
~~~
The Emperor Penguin
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> The "cottonmouth" or "water moccasin" _Agkistrodon piscivorus_ is not
> normally found much north of central Virginia, so I didn't think that
> this could be such. But looking over a lot of pictures of water snakes,
> I did find a picture of a snake very similar indeed to the one I had
> been poking.
The key is in the head. All of the relatively dangerous snakes in North
America (except the coral snake, which is not a worry here) have relatively
triangular or spade shaped heads, being pit vipers and all. The harmless
ones have heads that are more or less the same diameter and width as the
rest of the body.
The Great Dismal Swamp has to be the single most enticing place name in this
whole great land of ours. "Hi, I'm from the Great Dismal Swamp Chamber of
Commerce. Maybe you'd like to spend your next vacation in the Great Dismal
Swamp? Move your business into the Great Dismal Swamp? I have brochures
here. . . ."
--
Wenn Prinz Adam sein Zauberschwert in die Luft streckt und die Zauberformel:
"Bei der Macht von Grayskull!" ausruft, verwandelt er sich in He-Man, den
stärksten Mann des Universums.
Edvamp
Tell that to my ex-girlfriends.
Ever and Always
Edvamp
If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
www.insidecx.com
Tiny Human Ferret
> Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
>
>
>>The "cottonmouth" or "water moccasin" _Agkistrodon piscivorus_ is not
>>normally found much north of central Virginia, so I didn't think that
>>this could be such. But looking over a lot of pictures of water snakes,
>>I did find a picture of a snake very similar indeed to the one I had
>>been poking.
>
>
> The key is in the head. All of the relatively dangerous snakes in North
> America (except the coral snake, which is not a worry here) have relatively
> triangular or spade shaped heads, being pit vipers and all. The harmless
> ones have heads that are more or less the same diameter and width as the
> rest of the body.
Um. That's apparently the problem with the Cottonmouth, if it's just
expended a significant amount of venom, it's head doesn't appear to be
much more triangular than that of a common water snake. The Rattlesnakes
and to some degree the Copperhead have rather obviously triangular heads.
>
> The Great Dismal Swamp has to be the single most enticing place name in this
> whole great land of ours. "Hi, I'm from the Great Dismal Swamp Chamber of
> Commerce. Maybe you'd like to spend your next vacation in the Great Dismal
> Swamp? Move your business into the Great Dismal Swamp? I have brochures
> here. . . ."
Oh, it's Dismal allright. You have to go visit it sometime to appreciate
how dismal it is.
Also, there's some legend of a ghost of a gal paddling her white canoe
looking for her lost lover or somesuch. Clearly this is one of the most
GAF places in the States.
MistressDeath
> A few weeks ago I posted something brief about going on my usual walk
> and seeing a rather large and handsome King Snake, who was sunning
> himself at the edge of a bike path.
>
> Here is a fairly representative photo of a King Snake, of the variety
> also known as a "chain snake":
>
> http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/reptile-pictures-breeders-babies/king-snake-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/king-snake-0001.jpg
>
<snip>
>
> I suppose I should be rather more cautious in the future, as it would
> appear that there is at least one rather large Cottonmouth to be found
> north of the Dismal Swamp.
Aaaaw! Animals! It's too bad you didn't get to pick it up and hold it.
Snakes feel lovely, as you may know. If my apartment allowed it, I'd
have at least one right now. I have always wanted a small
insect/worm-eating snake like a garter snake or small racer. When I
was young, the class pet was a pregnant snake, and I kept bringing
home babies (which always "got away" while I wasn't home) until I
figured out that my mother was setting them loose outside as snakes
bothered her. I want a snake of my very own to cuddle, but not a
cottonmouth, obviously. I suppose it's best that you didn't try to pet
it after all if it really was one of those. Those are the kinds of
snakes with whom you want to have a pillow case to throw over it/it
onto should something not go your way.
--Mistress Dismal Swamp Sounds Fun
Tiny Human Ferret
> Tiny Human Ferret <ixnayamsp...@earthops.net> wrote in message news:<40992756...@earthops.net>...
>
>>A few weeks ago I posted something brief about going on my usual walk
>>and seeing a rather large and handsome King Snake, who was sunning
>>himself at the edge of a bike path.
>>
>>Here is a fairly representative photo of a King Snake, of the variety
>>also known as a "chain snake":
>>
>>http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/reptile-pictures-breeders-babies/king-snake-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/king-snake-0001.jpg
>>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>I suppose I should be rather more cautious in the future, as it would
>>appear that there is at least one rather large Cottonmouth to be found
>>north of the Dismal Swamp.
>
>
> Aaaaw! Animals! It's too bad you didn't get to pick it up and hold it.
> Snakes feel lovely, as you may know.
Actually, I quite relish the handling of snakes, so long as they're not
deadly vipers with fully charged venom glands.
> If my apartment allowed it, I'd
> have at least one right now. I have always wanted a small
> insect/worm-eating snake like a garter snake or small racer. When I
> was young, the class pet was a pregnant snake, and I kept bringing
> home babies (which always "got away" while I wasn't home) until I
> figured out that my mother was setting them loose outside as snakes
> bothered her. I want a snake of my very own to cuddle, but not a
> cottonmouth, obviously. I suppose it's best that you didn't try to pet
> it after all if it really was one of those. Those are the kinds of
> snakes with whom you want to have a pillow case to throw over it/it
> onto should something not go your way.
>
> --Mistress Dismal Swamp Sounds Fun
You cannot believe the size of the mosquitoes. Other than that, it's a
bit like one of those "worst movies ever made". I don't mean the bad
movies that are camp classics like "Plan 9 From Outer Space", I mean the
incredibly bad movies like "It Came From... Somewhere Else" which has
absolutely no redeeming characteristics or features, but is in fact a
truly bad movie of no value whatsoever other than as a caution of what
to never do, including trying to watch it.
By this, I mean, the Dismal Swamp is actually a swamp which is dismal.
It is a fookin' swamp. It has mosquitoes the size of dinner-plates. The
colors are all leached-away and entirely drab, an astonishing profusion
of shades differing with exceptional and perhaps-indectible sublety from
a sad shade somewhere in between dead vegetation and dead rotting
vegetation. This includes the water, the sky, the vegetation, both dead
and dead and rotting, and the living vegetation looks just about the
same. Other than the mosquitoes -- all of which appear to have been
alerted by radio telecommunication to be lying in wait for you -- the
only living things appear to be a profusion of reptilian and amphibian
life, all of which is either venomous or poisonous or both. Even
vultures avoid the place. Inbreds refuse to park their trailers there.
It is genuinely Dismal. Nothing can stand it, nobody lives there, the
sole excitement in the place is in that it's the statistical center of
the aggregate hurricane track and at least when there's a hurricane
dying there, the mosquitoes get rained right out of the air. There are
probably fish in there, but I'd be afraid to try and catch them, because
who even knows what could happen if you actually caught them and ate
them, necessarily without cooking since you can't build a fire in there.
Even the natives apparently never settled it because it was even more
depressing than a certain death from smallpox.
MistressDeath
Have you been to northern Illinois before? The whole area used to be
full of swamps and prairies. My junior high school was slowly sinking
into the ground because it was on an improperly-filled wetland. The
mosquitos are plentiful and the farther northwest one goes from
Chicago, the larger they grow. You should come to Volo Bog, which has
the added gothness as being a prime spot to find preserved suicides,
and see if it's as good (bad?). The entire Pistakee Nature Preserve is
colored in various shades of barf. Furthermore, it looks damned creepy
because it's one of the few quaking bogs with an open-water center
left, and the thing rolls and shakes like something alive wants to
knock you off the boardwalk. They also have a bat maternity center (!)
and picnic area, although I know about zero people who've ever used
it, as the bog smells unappetizing.
http://chicagowildernessmag.org/issues/summer1999/IWvolobog.html
>Other than that, it's a
> bit like one of those "worst movies ever made". I don't mean the bad
> movies that are camp classics like "Plan 9 From Outer Space", I mean the
> incredibly bad movies like "It Came From... Somewhere Else" which has
> absolutely no redeeming characteristics or features, but is in fact a
> truly bad movie of no value whatsoever other than as a caution of what
> to never do, including trying to watch it.
>
> By this, I mean, the Dismal Swamp is actually a swamp which is dismal.
> It is a fookin' swamp. It has mosquitoes the size of dinner-plates. The
> colors are all leached-away and entirely drab, an astonishing profusion
> of shades differing with exceptional and perhaps-indectible sublety from
> a sad shade somewhere in between dead vegetation and dead rotting
> vegetation. This includes the water, the sky, the vegetation, both dead
> and dead and rotting, and the living vegetation looks just about the
> same. Other than the mosquitoes -- all of which appear to have been
> alerted by radio telecommunication to be lying in wait for you -- the
> only living things appear to be a profusion of reptilian and amphibian
> life, all of which is either venomous or poisonous or both. Even
> vultures avoid the place. Inbreds refuse to park their trailers there.
> It is genuinely Dismal.
Isn't Dismal extra-gaf when rednecks avoid it, too?
> Nothing can stand it, nobody lives there, the
> sole excitement in the place is in that it's the statistical center of
> the aggregate hurricane track and at least when there's a hurricane
> dying there, the mosquitoes get rained right out of the air.
Now that's something. If it were safe that would be nice to see, all
the insects of doom being smacked out of the air by massive
precipitation.
>There are
> probably fish in there, but I'd be afraid to try and catch them, because
> who even knows what could happen if you actually caught them and ate
> them, necessarily without cooking since you can't build a fire in there.
> Even the natives apparently never settled it because it was even more
> depressing than a certain death from smallpox.
A prime candidate for C11, I say....
--Mistress Waiting For Her Hair To Dry So She Can Backcomb It
John Mason Jr
Cottonmouths aren't usually deadly, well most venomous bites don't
fall into that category as little or no venom is injected in a
defensive bite. Approx. 85 % of the venomous bites require little
more than observation for a 24 hour period. Cottonmouths do have a
nasty disposition, back many years ago a young boy broke into the
national zoo and broke the glass on the cottonmouth cage and was
discouraged by the snakes, then went over and broke the glass on the
Gaboon Viper cage and toke 2 of them on the bus with him in a plastic
bag, one struck through the bag in got him in the shoulder. Not to
mention when handled cottonmouths tend to release musk and crap as a
defensive mechanism.
John
siani evans
> Also, there's some legend of a ghost of a gal paddling her white canoe
> looking for her lost lover or somesuch. Clearly this is one of the most
> GAF places in the States.
swamps *are* GAF. one of my favourite places to go when i got all
overcome with teenaged angst was a swamp down by the river. there were
little paths through it made by logs that had drifted in from the booms.
siani
@mindspring.com Endymion
Another romantic legend about the Dismal Swamp, this one documented to
be true, is that it was a popular refuge for runaway slaves back before
the Civil War. Apparently no one wanted to go in after them. It's
actually a healthier place to live than you might think once one learns
how to get along in it - there were natives living in the place until
the surrounding areas were entirely claimed by Europeans and they were
forced onto reservations. But whites assumed it must be a terribly
unhealthy, malarial place, and the runaways managed to spread rumors
exaggerating the hazards even more.
Unlike almost every other southern swamp, the water of the Great Dismal
is not only fresh but drinkable but quite healthy; the tannins kill off
bacteria. Ships sailing for England used to fill their water casks with
"blackwater" from the swamp since it would last longer than ordinary
spring or well water.
The Great Dismal Swamp is a pretty large, too, nearly 800 square miles,
which makes it one of the larger swamps in the US. Of course much of
that around the edges has been developed now, and almost the entire
swamp has been logged at some point in its history. Much of it is now a
wildlife preserve.
--
Endymion
disintegration @ mindspring.com
Tiny Human Ferret
> "siani evans" <si...@velvet.net> wrote
>
>>Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Also, there's some legend of a ghost of a gal paddling her white
>
> canoe
>
>>>looking for her lost lover or somesuch. Clearly this is one of the
>
> most
>
>>>GAF places in the States.
>>
>>swamps *are* GAF. one of my favourite places to go when i got all
>>overcome with teenaged angst was a swamp down by the river. there
>
> were
>
>>little paths through it made by logs that had drifted in from the
>
> booms.
>
> Another romantic legend about the Dismal Swamp, this one documented to
> be true, is that it was a popular refuge for runaway slaves back before
> the Civil War. Apparently no one wanted to go in after them. It's
> actually a healthier place to live than you might think once one learns
> how to get along in it - there were natives living in the place until
> the surrounding areas were entirely claimed by Europeans and they were
> forced onto reservations. But whites assumed it must be a terribly
> unhealthy, malarial place, and the runaways managed to spread rumors
> exaggerating the hazards even more.
Pleeeease don't throw me in the briar patch!
>
> Unlike almost every other southern swamp, the water of the Great Dismal
> is not only fresh but drinkable but quite healthy; the tannins kill off
> bacteria. Ships sailing for England used to fill their water casks with
> "blackwater" from the swamp since it would last longer than ordinary
> spring or well water.
Blackwater, eh? As in "Blackwater Hattie lived back in the swamps, where
the strange green reptiles crawl..."[1]
>
> The Great Dismal Swamp is a pretty large, too, nearly 800 square miles,
> which makes it one of the larger swamps in the US. Of course much of
> that around the edges has been developed now, and almost the entire
> swamp has been logged at some point in its history. Much of it is now a
> wildlife preserve.
You know, you do sound a bit overly familiar with the place.
Oi everyone, _party at Endymion's house_! Come drink your fill of his
casks of blackwater from the Dismal Swamp itself! G A F!
BTW, what happens if you drink too much tannin in your water?
Ref:
1. http://www.quantium.cwc.net/lr23.htm
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> BTW, what happens if you drink too much tannin in your water?
Not a great deal, actually. You get a pretty stiff dose of tannin in a cup
of tea. Most tannin of anything, I think, is in elderberry wine, and I have
had it without much ill effects. It can be mildly constipating, which if
you're a sailor on the high seas may be a blessing in disguise.
erithromycin
>IX!
>>The key is in the head.
>Tell that to my ex-girlfriends.
Moving someone out is usually messy, but _damn_.
--
erith - .sig
erithromycin
>Wenn Prinz Adam sein Zauberschwert in die Luft streckt und die
>Zauberformel: "Bei der Macht von Grayskull!" ausruft, verwandelt er sich in
>He-Man, den stärksten Mann des Universums.
This is our fault for not paying closer attention to your .sigs more often,
isn't it?
--
erith - .sig
IHCOYC XPICTOC
> This is our fault for not paying closer attention to your .sigs more
often,
> isn't it?
It's actually just something I came across on the Web, and that struck me as
quite funny for reasons I cannot quite explain.
--
Matthew King
> I suppose I should be rather more cautious in the future, as it would
> appear that there is at least one rather large Cottonmouth to be found
> north of the Dismal Swamp.
Cottonmouths are the terrorists' new weapon of choice, having been
kidnapped from a secret breeding ranch in Alabama. The Department of
Homeland Security recommends you protect yourself with a cat:
http://www.westisland.ca/pub/News/detail.jsp?id=3116
Matthew
--
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?
Tiny Human Ferret
Damn those French Separatists! Planting vipers in the rock-gardens of
the unwary anglophones! But they did not count on...
Puss in Boots.