Re: Anger
Panurge
> I'm interested in talking to people on the subject of anger.
Oooohhh, boy.
> This is a personal; issue for me. I've always had problems
> with anger.
Yep. I didn't get into many real fights, but I did get picked on a
lot--I'm fun to pick on. (So there, I said it.) Not nearly as fun as I
used to be, but still...
> There are three ways I can see to approach this....
> The second would be to do nothing,...but I know all too well that that
> route leads to internalisation and depression.
I always hated it when people told me to "ignore it" (or more precisely
"ignore the people picking on you"), because I felt my emotions weren't
being respected. I learned really late that that wasn't really what
they were saying.
How about these:
1) Put on some REALLY VIOLENT music--get your catharsis that way. SGM,
Schoenberg, that kind of thing.
2) Make someone tell you something REALLY FUNNY; the involuntary humor
response can counteract the involuntary anger response. I've gotten
into at least one head-ripping argument where things got so heated that
I knew I had to say something funny or else, who knew? It seemed to
work, at least for a while. Then things heated up all over again and I
had to do it again. But that was our fault.
3) Catch yourself. Get self-aware--or, if you like, self-conscious.
Realize that a switch has been turned on; when you do that you realize
that you can turn it off, too--or at least turn it down. It's not quite
the same thing as ignoring it, though I do momentarily get "depressed"
when I realize that I've gone overboard *again* (usually a result of the
old internal monologue, so most people never see it).
I hope this helps you in some way, Jennie--I *think* it's helped me.
Mwah!
--
"He who wishes to go beyond it must die."
--Arnold Schoenberg, on Gustav Mahler's Ninth Symphony
Maxwell Hammer
news:slrnhjptfv.6c1...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk:
> I'm interested in talking to people on the subject of anger.
> This is a personal; issue for me. I've always had problems
> with anger. I got into a lot of fights as a kid. When I trained I was
> able to channel it into that, into hard, physical work, and things
> were good for a while, but when I got ill that was no longer an
> option. So there were more fights in my early twenties, and then
> prohibitive disability. For a while hormonal medication damped it
> down, but now it has cheerfully returned, and when I have to deal with
> everyday frustrations [1] I end up wanting to punch things.
> I know this is not the only way to be. Stuart doesn;t get
> angry the way I do at all. He gets really pissed off sometimes, but
> not aggressive. I realise that I probably still have unresolved
> childhood issues contributing to my anger, but what I really need
> assistance with is figuring out how to handle it in the meantime.
> There are three ways I can see to approach this. The first
> and best would be to re-engage in hard physical exercise, but due to
> my illness that's impossible. The second would be to do nothing, to
> take deep breaths and try to ignore it, but I know all too well that
> that route leads to internalisation and depression. The third would be
> to kick the living shit out of something or somebody. There are two
> problems with that. First, I can really easily damage myself (the
> muscle wasting means that even punching a pillow can strain my arm to
> the point where I can't put my weight through it, and therefore can't
> support myself on my walking stick, and therefore can't get out of the
> house, which doesn't do much to decrease frustration). Secondly, I'm
> not sure if this really _is_ a good solution. I've hit partners in the
> past. It's not something I'm proud of. It's something I stopped. But
> I'm worried that if I get into a habit of lashing out physically when
> I'm angry then I might hurt somebody (or something) that I care about.
> If anyone here has had similar problems and has
> successfully
> found solutions, I would really appreciate hearing about it. And
> please don't just suggest I cut down on stress - aside from everything
> else, I have chronic pain, so that's not really an option.
I have what they call "anger management issues". It's caused by PTSD and
Bipolar disorder. I'm 40 and my last fight was 4 months ago. A
cousin-in-law was yelling at me and my grandmother so I hit him in the
head with a broom handle.
I think you have missed the 4th option, drugs. Get a doctor to prescribe
anti-depressants or tranquilizers or something like that. If you have
chronic pain you're probably depressed as well.
Max
moonglow minnow
> I'm interested in talking to people on the subject of anger.
I hope I have a little insight that can help. Despite what you and many
others have seen of me, I have a lot of anger issues that I used to
channel into violence, both physical and emotional. I also used to
internalize and turn to violence against myself. This isn't entirely
resolved, but I've found some strategies that have helped.
> I know this is not the only way to be. Stuart doesn;t get
> angry the way I do at all. He gets really pissed off sometimes, but not
> aggressive. I realise that I probably still have unresolved childhood
> issues contributing to my anger, but what I really need assistance with
> is figuring out how to handle it in the meantime.
> There are three ways I can see to approach this. The first
> and best would be to re-engage in hard physical exercise, but due to my
> illness that's impossible. The second would be to do nothing, to take
> deep breaths and try to ignore it, but I know all too well that that
> route leads to internalisation and depression. The third would be to
> kick the living shit out of something or somebody.
I've found meditation and visualization to be useful at times when I
can't get physical with my anger. Meditation as a regular practice is
more of a preventer than an intervention. It helps calm and soothe the
demons (such as unresolved issues) that make anger flare in violent
ways. An intervention strategy that I've used is to *visualize* as
vividly as possible kicking the shit out of the problem, letting myself
feel the anger intensely without physically acting out, and then putting
it in an imagined bubble and letting it drift away. There's also the
'safe place' visualization technique (more effective IME), which must be
practiced at calm times to be effective, in which you visualize yourself
in the calmest most tranquil space you can imagine with the most detail
possible. Making a script for it is a good idea. Make it a space where
you can (rather than suppressing it) release the grip that your anger
has on you, and take the power that it's stealing from you back.
So in a nutshell, regular meditation practice involving a calm internal
space practiced intensively so you can recall it in times of stress.
It's not perfect, but in combination with medication and therapy it's
helped me control my anger.
Another avenue which may be good for you is to channel anger into art.
Write graphic horror scenes. Splash vivid (or dark or representative of
how you're feeling) colors onto paper or a canvas or a sheet reserved
for the purpose. Be intensively active with your mind instead of your
body, but in a direction that isn't immediately frustrating.
All of the techniques that have worked for me have involved recognizing
my anger and feeling it and releasing it, just shifting gears and
letting it go through different channels than in the past. It takes a
bit of feeling out and experimentation to find out what works best.
> If anyone here has had similar problems and has successfully
> found solutions, I would really appreciate hearing about it. And please
> don't just suggest I cut down on stress - aside from everything else, I
> have chronic pain, so that's not really an option.
Good luck. I have faith that you can become the master instead of the
slave with practice. If nothing else, you're certainly stubborn enough
to do so. :)
minnow >^..^<
--
http://twitter.com/taheenahana
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/
Maxwell Hammer
news:7q65hj...@mid.individual.net:
I found that this leads to torture fantasies and being more likely to be
violent. It's not healthy.
There's also the
> 'safe place' visualization technique (more effective IME), which must
> be practiced at calm times to be effective, in which you visualize
> yourself in the calmest most tranquil space you can imagine with the
> most detail possible. Making a script for it is a good idea. Make it a
> space where you can (rather than suppressing it) release the grip that
> your anger has on you, and take the power that it's stealing from you
> back.
>
Wouldn't work for me.
I become violent without realizing it. Someone will do something and the
next thing I know I've got his throat in my hands and I'm choking him
against a wall. I really don't know I'm doing it until it happens.
At those moments I seem to have Hulk-like strength. I've done things
like pick someone up and throw them and jumped over bars and landed ten
feet away. Things that I wouldn't have thought I could do.
Max
GryffnStryff
> >> I'm interested in talking to people on the subject of
> >> anger.
I missed the original post, but I'd like to share some thoughts on
this... I know that anger can be debilitating and some people do
their best to create it in others probably for that purpose. It seems
to be stumbling block and stultifying.
I recently read somewhere that avoiding the contemplation of a
specific scenario or issue can lead one to becoming obsessed with it
as a recurring theme that occurs as an annoyance with more frequency
until it is examined as to why one is apparently obsessed or
obsessing. It makes sense that if I found something disturbing such
as having seen someone get stabbed and repeatedly seeing that image in
my head over and over again, my initial reaction would be to try to
put it out of my mind by distraction with something else. I suppose
that if the obsession kept recurring and I continued to see this image
in my mind, it would make sense to stop for a moment to reflect on
what concepts and issues I find disturbing and why they are of concern
to me. I think that once one has done this, it allows one to see that
they have considered what there may be of concern and have acquired
the ability to decide if there really is anything of concern. I
suppose if I was driving through a bad part of town or going to a
rough nightclub and had witnessed a stabbing, I could eventually come
to the conclusion that in my case, it does or does not warrant my
avoiding the club or part of town or if I must be there by necessity,
try to do other things like only go there during daytime, etc.
I think anger is similar. It seems to me that anger is an emotional
response to a situation or something that is presented. It is
supposedly enabling to allow one to prepare with the energy necessary
for a fight to conquer something somehow. It may come to that, but in
some cases, I've also found that I can become obsessed over something
and still have furious anger about it repeatedly in the future, having
the desire to throttle someone by the neck with my bare hands, etc.
Of course, as I mentioned above, this is stultifying and debilitating
when I'm in the process of to do something nice for someone and some
random trigger flashes me back to a scene full of hatred. That's the
point at which and also during an initial confrontation, that I
believe it is in one's own best interest to evaluate as clearly as
possible without emotional bias, a rational process of action to
preserve one's own safety, sanity, etc.
Perhaps one can apply any number of methods, but the only one I can
think of now is one taken from a motorcycle safety course. Like
trying to go your own way minding your own business when you are
confronted by an asshole, etc., it is similar to riding along when you
are presented with a threatening situation. In the course one is
instructed to:
Scan
Identify
Predict
Decide
Execute
I'm sure this same template of rational processes can be used to avoid
a situation which would exacerbate anger and prevent the ability to
understand the best option for the best possible outcome in a
situation. At least that's my opinion. I'm sure I'm real hokey and
officious, but to a certain extent and at least by general impetus, I
think what I'm writing is valid.
I don't know what the original post was in its entirety, so I must
apologize for probably writing something completely off-topic, but I
think I've found that taking a moment to reflect on a situation can
yield the possibility for a better outcome if you don't panic, and
think things through, regardless of what you're confronted with.
Also, if you don't have the luxury of time to comtemplate things as
much as you would like and have to make an immediate reaction which
you find later on to be less than ideal, apply the same rule. Being
angry is a choice towards an end. Being angry at yourself doesn't
help you unless you choose to use it to do so. You can always reflect
on things later to improvise the best course of action if the need
arises and you're confronted with the same situation again. I'm sure
this is all being seen as common sense. For me, I've come to the
point where I have become obsessed and repeatedly tortured with fits
of rage that have taken me decades to realize I have to ability to
escape from or rather, "through" with contemplation and
understanding. Even so, for whatever reason, whether physiological,
mentally patterned, etc., I still find it easy to fall into the trap
of allowing anger to destroy my life if I don't keep myself in check.
I once brooded for weeks and months in a work situation until I
finally came to the conclusion that the effort of brooding was
actually so de-energizing and self-destructive that I simply had to
accept the fact that basic choices I made dictated the situation I was
in, and that if I truly wanted to escape from what I felt was torture,
I would be wise to take the time to consider the options and act in
the way that would lead to the least heartache for me. For some
reason, I just didn't feel and probably never will feel that taking
violent action against other people or myself is beneficial. I
certainly didn't feel that even though I have been presented with some
very strong emotional confrontations in the past, I have been
fortunate enough not to have been the victim of violent acts, have
have mostly found that I've had to do the extra work of thinking
through the best options.
Of course I suppose that one has to react immediately in certain
situations, but one always has the choice not to, I've found if the
consequences will probably be better. I suppose it really does all
come down to common sense. I think we sometimes forget things which
apply and have to be reminded. Sometimes we'll never understand until
much later, if ever. It comes down to what we value in life, what
choices we make and how we prepare for the consequences. I think
anger is a choice. You don't have to become angry at the first sign
of a threat.
I bet if a drug lord starts getting angry and making violent threats
at someone for setting their warehouse of drugs on fire, they'll
probably all of a sudden CHOOSE to kiss that arsonist's ass and plead
for mercy instead once that arsonist shoves the end of an automatic
machine shot gun into the drug lord's mouth and asks him if he is
going to continue to act in an angry manner and be shot several times
with demostrated repeated firings of wide spread incendiary shot into
his skull, or accept the invitation to be restrained until taken into
custody by law enforcement.
You can watch Jerry Springer and see how anger is used as a tool of
intimidation for the manipulation of others. In reality, that is
probably not actual anger than a display of aggression for the purpose
of power struggle. Once an aggressor is confronted with irrefutable
truth presented to everyone and the audience is booing, it can easily
be seen in some cases the hypocrisy of someone who suddenly is not
angry, but rather changes their tone.
Anyway, that's all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure there is
more and I'm not the final authority on this subject anyway.
moonglow minnow
> moonglow minnow <tahee...@charter.net.invalid> wrote in
> news:7q65hj...@mid.individual.net:
>
>> can't get physical with my anger. Meditation as a regular practice is
>> more of a preventer than an intervention. It helps calm and soothe the
>> demons (such as unresolved issues) that make anger flare in violent
>> ways. An intervention strategy that I've used is to *visualize* as
>> vividly as possible kicking the shit out of the problem, letting
>> myself feel the anger intensely without physically acting out, and
>> then putting it in an imagined bubble and letting it drift away.
>
> I found that this leads to torture fantasies and being more likely to be
> violent. It's not healthy.
It's how I keep myself from taking a shotgun to my father's house and
blowing his brains out for molesting me when I was a pre-pubescent child
and psychologically torturing myself and my mother until I was 18. It's
a little healthier than jail time, I think. It's also healthier than
harming myself for 'letting it happen'.
> There's also the
>> 'safe place' visualization technique (more effective IME), which must
>> be practiced at calm times to be effective, in which you visualize
>> yourself in the calmest most tranquil space you can imagine with the
>> most detail possible. Making a script for it is a good idea. Make it a
>> space where you can (rather than suppressing it) release the grip that
>> your anger has on you, and take the power that it's stealing from you
>> back.
>>
>
> Wouldn't work for me.
>
> I become violent without realizing it. Someone will do something and the
> next thing I know I've got his throat in my hands and I'm choking him
> against a wall. I really don't know I'm doing it until it happens.
>
> At those moments I seem to have Hulk-like strength. I've done things
> like pick someone up and throw them and jumped over bars and landed ten
> feet away. Things that I wouldn't have thought I could do.
Sounds like you need to take your own advice and get some better
medication. Therapy can help you get to the point where you realize what
you're about to do at a point when you can stop it, but appropriate
medication can help a whole lot too.
`una
> moonglow minnow wrote in
> There's also the
> > 'safe place' visualization technique (more effective IME), which must
> > be practiced at calm times to be effective, in which you visualize
> > yourself in the calmest most tranquil space you can imagine with the
> > most detail possible. Making a script for it is a good idea. Make it a
> > space where you can (rather than suppressing it) release the grip that
> > your anger has on you, and take the power that it's stealing from you
> > back.
> >
>
> Wouldn't work for me.
>
> I become violent without realizing it. Someone will do something and the
> next thing I know I've got his throat in my hands and I'm choking him
> against a wall. I really don't know I'm doing it until it happens.
PTSD is a bitch. Have you talked with someone about
recognizing your triggers and grounding techniques?
There are other treatment options as well, but
those are the ones that tend to help the most with
coping with those moments where impulse overrides
everything else.
`una - also has PTSD
`una
> There are three ways I can see to approach this. The first
> and best would be to re-engage in hard physical exercise, but due to my
> illness that's impossible. The second would be to do nothing, to take
> deep breaths and try to ignore it, but I know all too well that that
> route leads to internalisation and depression. The third would be to
> kick the living shit out of something or somebody.
Do you need a physical outlet for your anger or have you tried channeling
it into creative avenues? Playing an instrument can be physical
without being violent or destructive. Art tends to be used for
anger management quite a lot because the physical process of creation
can satisfy the need to DO something in a way that isn't destructive.
However, it sounds like you feel that you need something more
strenuous to satisfy your impulses. Have you considered sculpting
or even just buying something big you could hit with a hammer for
awhile?
Anger isn't my best topic because I have the opposite problem
that you do. I am so out of touch with my anger that writing
a story about destroying someone else's belongings was a major
breakthrough for me (and there's still the tiniest hint of guilt
when I recall that I wrote that.)
I had my anger emotionally beaten out of me because others could
always hurt me far worse with their words than I could hurt them
with mine. In fact, I couldn't hurt them at all and they could utterly
demolish me, so I learned to avoid conflict. Of course, I was always
a non-abusive person going up against abusive people.
Now that I'm interacting with healthy people, I am finding that
I have far more power to hurt than I ever knew and have to
relearn the verbal boundaries of gentle teasing and word play.
That's without adding anger to the mix.
When I get angry now, I have to go through a complex process of
figuring out that I'm angry and then figuring out how to express
it without verbally demolishing the people in my path. At first,
I thought there were universal rules for that and tried to figure
out what they were. Now, I understand that it's more of a process
of getting to know other people. There are general guidelines
that can facilitate the process, but the process can't be
avoided by the application of general guidelines.
Anger is a pain in the ass. I hope you can find some healthy
ways of dealing with yours.
`una - less annoyed by anger these days, but still not graceful with it
Maxwell Hammer
> Maxwell Hammer wrote:
>>
>> Wouldn't work for me.
>>
>> I become violent without realizing it. Someone will do something and
>> the next thing I know I've got his throat in my hands and I'm choking
>> him against a wall. I really don't know I'm doing it until it
>> happens.
>>
>> At those moments I seem to have Hulk-like strength. I've done things
>> like pick someone up and throw them and jumped over bars and landed
>> ten feet away. Things that I wouldn't have thought I could do.
>
> Sounds like you need to take your own advice and get some better
> medication. Therapy can help you get to the point where you realize
> what you're about to do at a point when you can stop it, but
> appropriate medication can help a whole lot too.
I'm doing that. I was speaking more in the past tense. It's not
currently happening, but I never know when it will.
Max
Panurge
> I had my anger emotionally beaten out of me because others could
> always hurt me far worse with their words than I could hurt them
> with mine. In fact, I couldn't hurt them at all and they could utterly
> demolish me, so I learned to avoid conflict. Of course, I was always
> a non-abusive person going up against abusive people.
This makes me wonder if abusive people understand what damage they're
going. They likely wonder why their words hurt others so much and
figure it's our problem if we're hurt.
I once worked a warehouse job where everybody was constantly in the
habit of, well, not *abusing* but blowing off steam at each other. The
manager explained that it was just how they interacted and nobody took
it personally. Part of me was actually relieved to find I could go off
at people with impunity (well, to an extent, anyway--I could tell there
were limits), but I think it's a lesson I wound up learning a bit too
well. Not good for someone who's always terrified that someone will be
angry at him.
Panurge
> I found that this leads to torture fantasies and being more likely to be
> violent. It's not healthy.
I don't know about "being more likely to be violent", but yeah with the
"not healthy" part. Maybe I'm leaving out the second part. (Really,
it's more of an internal fugue state brought on by the Outrage Of The
Day or some such.)
> I become violent without realizing it. Someone will do something and the
> next thing I know I've got his throat in my hands and I'm choking him
> against a wall. I really don't know I'm doing it until it happens.
Well, once you realize you're doing it, stop.
`una
> `una wrote:
>
> > I had my anger emotionally beaten out of me because others could
> > always hurt me far worse with their words than I could hurt them
> > with mine. In fact, I couldn't hurt them at all and they could utterly
> > demolish me, so I learned to avoid conflict. Of course, I was always
> > a non-abusive person going up against abusive people.
>
> This makes me wonder if abusive people understand what damage they're
> going. They likely wonder why their words hurt others so much and
> figure it's our problem if we're hurt.
It depends on the abuser and why they choose to behave that way.
Some are completely aware and are proud of themselves for being
able to have that much power over others. Others have greater or
lesser degrees of understanding depending on where they learned those
patterns and how much they care about unlearning them. Many people
just don't care.
`una - mostly depends how socially acceptable it is
Elder
"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk says...
> Not so long
> ago I played a game of Whack-a-Mole, which I used to love, and though I
> enjoyed it at the time, fifteen minutes afterwards I could hardly move
> my arm.
>
Have you tried something like a rubber stress brick that you can throw?
Not too heavy but very satisfying, and little damage. Or even primal
screaming to get the cathartic effect?
--
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
Dark Phoenix
"Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnhjt0u5.5ar...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
> Unfortunately that kind of thing isn't an option. Not so long
> ago I played a game of Whack-a-Mole, which I used to love, and though I
> enjoyed it at the time, fifteen minutes afterwards I could hardly move
> does. :(
What about some very violent video game? I truly don't know how much the
arm/hand muscles get used in one of them, but some let you blow up guys
without a great deal of motion...
--
Laurie Brown, Dark Phoenix
dark_p...@netw.com
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/103910/laurie_brown.html
"To destroy the Western tradition of independent thought, it is not
necessary to burn books. All we have to do is leave them unread for a couple
of generations."
--Robert Maynard Hutchens.
Elder
says...
> Yes, but anti-depressants can help with anger as well.
>
> Also they won't cause you to have trouble at work. They put you in an
> better mood, not make you sleepy. Tranqulizers make you sleepy, not
> anti-depressants.
>
After quitting smoking a years ago, for a couple of months I needed
anti-depressants to keep down the rages I would get over the most stupid
thing.
I had just got to the point where they had reached maximum effect and
had to stop taking them. They didn't balance out the moods to calm the
anger, they mentally numbed me to not feel anything. It was the most
miserable few weeks of my life. I do tend to show borderline bi-polar
symptoms in times of stress, and even on my worst downers, my humour is
there, very black and sardonic but still there. But on the pills I
couldn't have smiled if I wanted to.
Elder
says...
> That happens. If it does you stop taking the ones you're on, tell the
> doctor and switch to another anti-depressant. There are about 50
> different ones and each can have different effects.
>
Actually, the time it took get to full effect was enough time to help me
get over the rages by the time it has disipated from my system again so
I didn't need them after that. Even though the effect wasn't what I
wanted, that short period did the job.
GryffnStryff
physiological state for anger, hysteria, happiness, etc.) and takes
about half an hour to get flushed out of one's system (from what I've
heard anyway, unless I suppose you mentally switch your perception of
your state from anger to hysterical laughter).
Once you're out of the physical state of anger (etc.), and if you
still have the time, I think the best thing to do is figure out what's
going on mentally/logically in the situation to cause the situation
and trigger your anger. Finding the cause is a start for a cure,
unless you prefer to feel that state of anger for the purpose of using
the energy to defend yourself and kill off an attacker out of
necessity, etc.
Once you've figured out a cause (you'll probably figure out more
details later), you have the option (always do anyway, if you have the
ability / "presence of mind" for self control and decision-making), to
choose whether something is worth your anger. If not, because you've
decided someone is simply an unreasonable psychopath, sociopath, has
Anti-social Personality Disorder, (you'll have to know what the signs
are for these to determine if they are present in the person you're
dealing with if it's a person), you may simply come to the conclusion
that it's just simply not worth your time. Perhaps this can help you
get control over anger triggers as someone mentioned.
I suppose if you have dealt with enough occurrences of anger and found
their causes and how you feel is the best way to deal with them that
works for you (hopefully not by murdering random people), perhaps you
can in the future "ground" yourself with your armory of reasoning and
calm unless a display of anger is necessary when reason has failed and
someone is threatening you and won't back off and may back off if they
are intimidated (which is usually not the case unless you have a
bigger weapon, etc.).
Assuming you don't want to be angry.
1. Be calm.
2. Figure out what triggered your anger.
3. Practice reasoning things out.
4. Realize you are doing the best you can so you don't get angry at
yourself or depressed.
5. Avoid or confront with reasoning rather than rage.
6. Take comfort that you are right until proven otherwise.
7. Some people are just simply unreasonable and it's better to ignore
them, realizing they pose no threat other than to themselves due to
their own stupidity, stubbornness, psychopathy, etc.
I suppose there are situations where a show of anger may be useful to
save someone's life, etc., but it's nice to know how to save your
energy for those times rather then always expending it every time
someone walks in front of you, for example.
It might also be beneficial to delve into why you feel angry in great
detail, when you're calm. You may realize that something that made
you angry, just isn't worth it anymore, or you had a mistaken
perception.
ok. so I don't know much but maybe that's helpful.
whisky-dave
"Dark Phoenix" <dark_p...@netw.com> wrote in message
news:CYadna2XitPBOqLW...@povn.com...
>
> "Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnhjt0u5.5ar...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
>> Unfortunately that kind of thing isn't an option. Not so long
>> ago I played a game of Whack-a-Mole, which I used to love, and though I
>> enjoyed it at the time, fifteen minutes afterwards I could hardly move
>> my arm. The pain lasted for about four days. That's what muscle wasting
>> does. :(
>
> What about some very violent video game? I truly don't know how much the
> arm/hand muscles get used in one of them,
There's RSI to think about.
>but some let you blow up guys without a great deal of motion...
If you ever hear of one where you can do nasty things to students, please
let me know.
I've a feeling 2010 is going to be a long year.
Elder
"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk says...
> On 2010-01-02, Elder <carl....@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote:
> > Have you tried something like a rubber stress brick that you can throw?
> > Not too heavy but very satisfying, and little damage. Or even primal
> > screaming to get the cathartic effect?
>
> to find something safe to throw it at, too, and if it were rubber it
> would probably bounce, and my house is full of precariously balanced
> things (my study all the more so).
>
> Jennie
Actually, thinking about it, what about a Nerf gun. Soft rubber
projectiles, spring powered, from just about reach the end of the desk
to "you'll have someones eye out with that" powerful.
We used to have Nerf wars in the office for most of last year when
things got stressful and have quite a sizeable armoury now should the
need ever occur again. Set up a poster of which ever person in the
public eye really pisses you off, and let fly a couple of rounds when
the need arrises. You don't need to lead load them, or hotglue drawing
pins to the end for them to be fun.
Peter H. Coffin
>
> "Dark Phoenix" <dark_p...@netw.com> wrote in message
> news:CYadna2XitPBOqLW...@povn.com...
>>
>> "Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhjt0u5.5ar...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
>>> Unfortunately that kind of thing isn't an option. Not so long
>>> ago I played a game of Whack-a-Mole, which I used to love, and though I
>>> enjoyed it at the time, fifteen minutes afterwards I could hardly move
>>> my arm. The pain lasted for about four days. That's what muscle wasting
>>> does. :(
>>
>> What about some very violent video game? I truly don't know how much the
>> arm/hand muscles get used in one of them,
>
> There's RSI to think about.
Remember back in the day when they used to call that "Nintendo Thumb"?
>>but some let you blow up guys without a great deal of motion...
>
> If you ever hear of one where you can do nasty things to students, please
> let me know.
> I've a feeling 2010 is going to be a long year.
I'd imagine Team Fortress 2 with some appropriate skinning can probably
do the trick.
--
I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner that
fish follow migrating caribou.
-- Paul Tomblin in the Monastery
The Ghost of Fascinet Present
> GryffnStryff <gryffnstr...@gmail.com> wrote in news:ad4851c8-5db4-4c6e-
> 9f59-187537b08...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > 1. Be calm.
> > 2. Figure out what triggered your anger.
> > 3. Practice reasoning things out.
> > 4. Realize you are doing the best you can so you don't get angry at
> > yourself or depressed.
> > 5. Avoid or confront with reasoning rather than rage.
> > 6. Take comfort that you are right until proven otherwise.
> > 7. Some people are just simply unreasonable and it's better to ignore
> > them, realizing they pose no threat other than to themselves due to
> > their own stupidity, stubbornness, psychopathy, etc.
>
>
> Telling someone angry to "be calm" is like telling someone on fire to
> think about water.
>
Telling someone who's angry to "be calm" is a good way to get the shit
kicked out of you.
I remember getting almost the same advice as this when I was a
hyperactive second grader.
If you give an adult advice meant for a seven year-old, you should get
the shit kicked out of you, as a matter of principle.
<...>
-F
GryffnStryff
> GryffnStryff <gryffnstr...@gmail.com> wrote in news:ad4851c8-5db4-4c6e-
> 9f59-187537b08...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > 2. Figure out what triggered your anger.
> > 3. Practice reasoning things out.
> > 4. Realize you are doing the best you can so you don't get angry at
> > yourself or depressed.
> > 5. Avoid or confront with reasoning rather than rage.
> > 6. Take comfort that you are right until proven otherwise.
> > 7. Some people are just simply unreasonable and it's better to ignore
> > them, realizing they pose no threat other than to themselves due to
> > their own stupidity, stubbornness, psychopathy, etc.
>
>
> Telling someone angry to "be calm" is like telling someone on fire to
> think about water.
>
> actually tried to throw someone off a balcony then you have never
> experienced this kind of anger. Just wanting to throw them off isn't
> enough.
>
> Not that I'm speaking for Jenny.
>
> Max
Well I forgot to mention one thing. Being angry to the point of an
insanely violent rage is definitely the pinnacle of aggression.
Aggression is associated with masculinity, testosterone, and being
narrow minded. If someone is focused on their anger, and their
concentration is put onto some new revelation which makes them realize
their anger is unnecessary because they've misinterpreted something,
etc. (no the spouse was not cheating on them, etc.), then I believe my
statement about being calm is still appropriate. One can also be calm
later in order to work through their problems. But whatever. I
suppose none of this matters much as I've just been informed.
I certainly am not interested in a pissing contest of how angry
someone has to feel in order to be qualified to make a comment. This
forums is anyway, nothing but comments from people with no
qualifications I feel necessary to be paraded other than the comments
themselves.
GryffnStryff
wrote:
So my advice now is apparently for a seven year-old and warrants
violence on principle. I disagree. My advice was for anyone open
enough to take it and to avoid violence. Your statement is like
saying I should find you and smash your head with a large sledgehammer
until it has been sufficiently mutilated enough that you can still
feel pain, but won't live long enough to tell anyone who you are
because you've been bashed beyond recognition, your teeth have been
pulverized, all traces of your body are about to be incinerated and
your whereabouts have been sufficiently planned for so that they will
never be discovered. That could be one way of telling someone to calm
down. I suppose that should be the way, unless by shooting someone in
the face several times or incapacitating them with a blunt object
before setting them on fire with gasoline after they pass out. Of
course, good ol' punching with some bare-handed strangulation and
cutting out of the heart and other organs to take out furiously
tearing bites to ensure a relief of anger would probably suffice as
well. Let's not forget the cutting off of the head and biting the
face off and apart just for the purpose of gloating. I could spend an
indefinite amount of time thinking of new ways to torture and kill,
but I have to stop at some point or it gets boring. Then that's when
planting flowers and crotchet seem so appealing. Kicking the shit out
of someone is so passe'.
I really abhor violence, but it's so fun to consider the possibility
of taking out an angry rage on someone who is out of control,
especially if they're committing a crime. Maybe that's why so many
police brutality cases exist when our finest do their best to maintain
control over a situation and help someone, "calm down" by telling them
first, having someone try to kick the shit out of them, then kicking
the shit out that "someone" just before they're beaten to shit with a
baton, pepper spray, a taser, rubber bullets, a shotgun bean bag, a
bloody face-slam into pavement, and finally, hand cuffs and a night
with bubba and the brotherhood. That is if they're not simply shot by
law enforcement issue weapons and bleed to death for flaunting their
angry rage by taunting armed police with a stick, knife, cap gun,
machete, cane, etc.
Now that I think of it, I think advice which is good for a seven year-
old should be good enough for an adult, unless the adult is incapable
of thinking like a normal seven year-old at least, but rather an
enraged, out-of-control six year-old. Then I suppose it would be
better to offer advice for such a six year-old, but I still don't
think it warrants violence. Someone who uses violence as their tool,
should be officially sanctioned to do so, or suffer the execution of
the fullest extent of the law, if not more. This is why there is
something called a make-my-day law where an invader can be killed for
intruding upon someone's home under certain circumstances such as the
intent and process of committing a crime.
If you have an anger problem, you're either going to control it before
it controls you, or suffer the consequences. In case someone is
wondering, yes I am speaking from experience. Don't be stupid, or
you'll suffer the consequences of that too.
TenshiKurai9
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:07:47 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> What about some very violent video game? I truly don't know how much the
> >> arm/hand muscles get used in one of them,
>
> > There's RSI to think about.
>
> Remember back in the day when they used to call that "Nintendo Thumb"?
Space Invader wrist.
-TenshiKurai9
GryffnStryff
"Man dies from playing Counter-Strike"
I hope he at least got in some good head shots with knife.
whisky-dave
"TenshiKurai9" <tenshi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bcc975f6-44c5-421e...@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
}Space Invader wrist.
I used to get blisters from playing Defender, and wrost ache from missile
command.
War
> "TenshiKurai9" <tenshikur...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I used to listen aptly as my father and uncle argued over Monopoly
rules. The game evaporated.
--
The Wheelbarrow
~Fianna
"Elder" <carl....@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25aa95988...@news.individual.net...
> In article <Xns9CF4DC1F...@188.40.43.245>, secr...@gmail.com
> says...
>> Yes, but anti-depressants can help with anger as well.
>>
>> Also they won't cause you to have trouble at work. They put you in an
>> better mood, not make you sleepy. Tranqulizers make you sleepy, not
>> anti-depressants.
>>
> After quitting smoking a years ago, for a couple of months I needed
> anti-depressants to keep down the rages I would get over the most stupid
> thing.
>
> I had just got to the point where they had reached maximum effect and
> had to stop taking them. They didn't balance out the moods to calm the
> anger, they mentally numbed me to not feel anything. It was the most
> miserable few weeks of my life. I do tend to show borderline bi-polar
> symptoms in times of stress, and even on my worst downers, my humour is
> there, very black and sardonic but still there. But on the pills I
> couldn't have smiled if I wanted to.
Yes, this. Went on anti-depressants for depression, anxiety and some anger
issues 2 years ago. I stopped taking them the night I realized that someone
could come up and punch me in the head, and I'd just sit there and smile at
them. It was like being emotionally turned off. I didn't want to be on
them in the first place and as soon as I realized they were as bad as I
figured they'd be, I threw the rest of them out. It was just awful.
~Fi, emotion is good.
~Fianna
"Maxwell Hammer" <secr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CF575D1...@188.40.43.245...
> Elder <carl....@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.25aa95988...@news.individual.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9CF4DC1F...@188.40.43.245>, secr...@gmail.com
>> says...
>>> Yes, but anti-depressants can help with anger as well.
>>>
>>> Also they won't cause you to have trouble at work. They put you in an
>>> better mood, not make you sleepy. Tranqulizers make you sleepy, not
>>> anti-depressants.
>>>
>> After quitting smoking a years ago, for a couple of months I needed
>> anti-depressants to keep down the rages I would get over the most
>> stupid thing.
>>
>> I had just got to the point where they had reached maximum effect and
>> had to stop taking them. They didn't balance out the moods to calm the
>> anger, they mentally numbed me to not feel anything.
>
> doctor and switch to another anti-depressant. There are about 50
> different ones and each can have different effects.
Yeah, and part of the game is that they want to give you another 50 pills to
counterbalance the 50 different side-effects of each pill.
I understand why people who have serious life-effecting illness should
medicate... but, personally, unless I'm suicidal or hopping off the walls
manic, I can deal with feeling a bit down and have learned other coping
methods to work around it.
~Fi, not always better living through chemestry.
~Fianna
> On 2010-01-01, Maxwell Hammer <secr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I become violent without realizing it. Someone will do something and the
>> next thing I know I've got his throat in my hands and I'm choking him
>> against a wall. I really don't know I'm doing it until it happens.
>
> I used to be more like that. These days I occasionally throw
> the computer mouse or punch my desk, but it's rare, and I have to be
> angry for quite a while before it gets that bad. It's interesting that
> you raise that because now I can try to think about what has changed in
> my own situation and how I've moved away from having those experiences.
> It was very much a deliberate decision I made that I didn't want to be
> like that (mostly because I didn't want to be a danger to my loved
> ones), but I'm not sure how I actualised it.
Same here. I still lose it way more than I'd like to, but I'm light years
better than I was.
I think from what you've said, you did it the same way that I did - you took
responsibility for your actions and made a conscious decision to control
your own behavior. That's not easy in a society that wants to keep pushing
that we're all victims of our desires and emotions. I just decided that I
was acting out in ways that were modeled to me when I was a kid and that I
didn't want to be like those people, so I made a concentrated effort to
examine my own behavior, figure out what set me off, what the building steps
of a fit were and what I could do to diffuse myself. Sometimes just playing
Bene Geserit and trying to step back and let the emotion pass through is all
it takes. Sometimes I need some time alone to shake it. I've had other far
more unhealthy coping behaviors in the past, which still occasionally pop
up. But the big victory is that I don't usually unload on people around me.
It takes time and it takes distance... the really sucky part is that it also
requires actually thinking about the crappy things that happened which wired
your head that way. It wasn't easy to spelunk the dark places, but it's
better than letting them jump out and bite me.
~Fi, unlikely self-help guru.
moonglow minnow
> Yes, this. Went on anti-depressants for depression, anxiety and some
> anger issues 2 years ago. I stopped taking them the night I realized
> that someone could come up and punch me in the head, and I'd just sit
> there and smile at them. It was like being emotionally turned off. I
> didn't want to be on them in the first place and as soon as I realized
> they were as bad as I figured they'd be, I threw the rest of them out.
> It was just awful.
If anti-depressants are numbing your emotions, they're really not
working. Numbed emotions are one of the classic symptoms of depression,
and if your anti-depressants are doing that you really need to try
something different. Something that isn't making your depression worse.
In my case, anti-depressants let me feel again (in a color vs. greyscale
sort of way) and took off the edge of terror that stalked me for most of
my life.
I also don't recommend stopping anti-depressants cold turkey. Sometimes
the effects of stopping without tapering can be far worse than the side
effects. Unless you like the twitchy brain zaps.
minnow >^..^<
--
http://twitter.com/taheenahana
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/
moonglow minnow
> If anyone here has had similar problems and has successfully
> found solutions, I would really appreciate hearing about it.
Just another potential that I thought about: can you masturbate to
release the tension without it turning into a feedback loop? It gives
your brain a similar high as with strenuous exercise, but without being
nearly as taxing.
Ssulian
Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2010-01-12, ~Fianna <k...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, and part of the game is that they want to give you another 50 pills to
> > counterbalance the 50 different side-effects of each pill.
>
> route. I already have to take a lot of stuff to treat the side effects
> of the medicines I need to stay alive, and sometimes to treat the side
> effects of the medicines I need to treat side effects, and many of the
> better-known anti-depressants are strongly contrindicated because of
Don't you mean contraindicated, sugar?
--
S
Maxwell Hammer
a8401d...@j5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> Don't you mean contraindicated, sugar?
>
I don't think anyone has ever called Jennie "sugar" before.
I can hear the Clint Eastwood music playing and the spurs jingling.....
Max
whisky-dave
"Jennie Kermode" <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnhks8ka.6t2...@laocoon.triffid.demon.co.uk...
> On 2010-01-09, GryffnStryff <gryffn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I really abhor violence, but it's so fun to consider the possibility
>> of taking out an angry rage on someone who is out of control,
>> especially if they're committing a crime.
>
> not fun. It's something I do a lot more when I'm depressed and if I
> indulge in it at other times it can lead to depression.
>
>> Maybe that's why so many police brutality cases exist when our finest
>> do their best to maintain control over a situation and help someone,
>> "calm down" by telling them first, having someone try to kick the shit
>> out of them, then kicking the shit out that "someone"
>
> political, but it also occurs because police officers sometimes allow
> anger to get the better of them. Again, it's something they must take
> responsibility for, but we, in turn, must acknowledge that they're human.
Yep, even Gandhi, Hitler and Jesus were all human.
But maybe scrub the last one off this list. ;-)
>> but I still don't think it warrants violence.
>
> Nobody is saying that anger _warrants_ violence - indeed, this
> whole conversation is about ways of avoiding that.
yeah, but if you knock someone out of the effect of your anger stops the
original source of anger
then there's a chance the anger will subside and you get a feeling of
satisfaction and peace.
>We're simply noting
> that it precipitates violence. Also, if I'm trying really hard to
> contain my anger, the last thing I need is somebody getting in my face
> saying something inane and making violence feel even more tempting. I am
> still 100% responsible for my behaviour, but that doesn't make their
> actions any less ill-advised.
But anger and violence aren't the same thing, and both exist in most humans
so there must be a reason for them, but then if you can hug a tree or
meditate
anger away then maybe that's a good think for the individual but it is so
good for society
as a whole ?
Peter H. Coffin
> Jennie Kermode <"Jennie Kermode"@triffid.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>
>> The real problem with this is that anger of the sort Max and
>> I
>> are talking about involves a chemical change in the body. A huge
>> amount of adrenaline is released and that has an effect on mood and
>> muscle regardless of what reason might say. I'm not saying one can't
>> be responsible for one's actions, but I am saying that there are times
>> when one has to get rid of that physical tension or one will
>> experience quite considerable physical suffering. Magically becoming
>> calm isn't going to happen.
>>
>
> With me there are two kinds of anger. The kind that sort of builds up
> slowly which I can tell myself to calm down and meditate or close my
> eyes and think about something else. That's the kind that most people
> have.
Interestingly, I think of that as "annoyance". While some folks use
words like "anger" or "rage" for even that, there's a qualitative thing
that makes it distinct from ...
> The other kind is an unthinking rage where I do things that I wouldn't
> have thought I could. I've picked up a fat guy by one hand on his throat
> and smashed him against a wall. I've done jumps over things and landed
> 15 feet away. I've smashed a Marine's head through a wall and then tried
> to throw him off a balcony. I'm not bragging, these things happen. When
> I do this I'm not thinking. I'm not even aware I'm doing it until it has
> already happened. It's like it isn't me that is doing these things.
A lot of people never get that, which is part of the issue. They think
they're using the same words for the same feeling, but they're not.
They're still back in severe annoyance. The key distinction between the
two is that annoyance still allows the clarity to plan.
--
Windows gives you a nice view of clouds so you can't see any potentially
useful boot time messages.
-- Bill Hay in the Monastery
Maxwell Hammer
news:slrnhku84r....@abyss.ninehells.com:
> A lot of people never get that, which is part of the issue. They think
> they're using the same words for the same feeling, but they're not.
> They're still back in severe annoyance. The key distinction between the
> two is that annoyance still allows the clarity to plan.
That's true. I keep trying to explain it but they are so sure they know
what anger is better than I do.
Max
whisky-dave
> On 2010-01-14, whisky-dave <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> But anger and violence aren't the same thing, and both exist in most
>> humans
>> so there must be a reason for them, but then if you can hug a tree or
>> meditate anger away then maybe that's a good think for the individual
>> but it is so good for society as a whole ?
>
I think we do, I doubt bacteria need it, but the more evolved an organism
becomes the greater the use anger will have.
Unfortunatly I think we need anger like we need students.
> That's an interesting question.
> I expect it evolved more to suit individual needs than social
> ones, as a means of equipping us to fight when necessary, but it
> developed into something we used to regulate communities.
The first form of life probably didn't need it, but there must have been
at some point a time when the mechanism for organisms to protect themselves
in a more agressive manor than just growing a shell or a thick skull.
nature must have realised that producignn adreniline in order to 'win'
was an advantage and a good way to provide this was via a thing we call
anger.
>In modern
> civilisation it's often a handicap, but perhaps there are aspects to
> anger that can be useful - even productive - even in that context.
yes well (don;t mention the war) but a few friends were talking about Hitler
and how the war started and how some men and women from walthamstow[1]
got a bit pissed off with the fascists in Europe and went to fight in Spain
in 1936.
if more people would have been like them perhaps WWII wouldn't have started.
> Jealousy, one-time native of these parts, used to say that he
> had achieved a great deal in his life by way of his anger, because it
> gave him the energy to get things done.
yes I'd agree with that, I think we should be glad that people felt strongly
enough to actually do something other than hug a tree or pray to God,
who can also be pretty angry according to some beliefs.
> To my mind, though, that's a
> little like saying that war is the mother of invention - perfectly true
> on the surface, but if one took all the resources used for war and
> directed them at invention directly, we might be better off still.
Might be, depends on defining war. If we can have a war against terror we
can
have a war against the cold and start skinning animals in order to use their
fur
for our own purposes.
If war is the mother of invention I wonder what/who the father is/was.
I'm not sure what the first invention was either..
I'm not sure if anger can be solved productively without eliminating the
reason for that anger,
but for some reason a girl got angery with me once, so I told her to go out
and buy a new
pair of shoes, at that point the anger got worse for a short period of time
but a little later
she did what I suggested and she was much happier when she retuirned with a
new pair of shoes.
So I must have been right all along[2] :-)
[1] and other places in England and ireland
[2] as usual ;)
TenshiKurai9
> bloody cold in here and I'm actually having difficulty hitting keys even
> semi-accurately.
I'm doing quite a bit of typing with hunt and peck because it's too cold
for me to use both hands properly.
-TenshiKurai9, siphoning wi fi from an unsecured spot outside.