Corset.net
unbroken
in agreement that they should have both a pic of a plus size and an average
model to see the different body types in certain clothing? Sure would cause
a lot less disappointment.
Ice Princess
Three of those models are under size 8.
That said, a great deal of their business comes from larger-size
clients, which is why they chose to have a majority of their models be plus-sized.
Ice Princess
(one of the non-under-size-8 models)
Fustanella
> clients, which is why they chose to have a majority of their models
> be plus-sized.
That's a refreshing change.
Rozz
"Fustanella" <fustaNOS...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:bt2iu3$8q9$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Indeed it is!
Ice Princess
Before this turns into a plus-vs.-thin thread...
I understand the original poster's point. What I was trying to do, and
don't think I communicated well, was explain that Xcentricities (the
actual name of the business at http://www.corset.net/ ) has made a
deliberate choice to focus more on larger-sized customers. They get a
significant portion of their business from the science fiction/fantasy
convention and Rennfaire scenes, where a lot of ladies (and gentlemen)
tend to be at the larger end of the size scale. It's not fundamentally
a political statement to push plus over small, it's just a business
choice.
They do recognize that there is a market for smaller sizes, and that's
why they chose to have a couple of smaller models in the catalog.
(FWIW, the sizing they use fits sewing-pattern sizing, not ready-to-wear
sizing, so if you're going from off-the-rack sizes it might seem as if
people are somewhat larger than they are. They have me listed as a size
18, but I was wearing a 14 in off-the-rack stuff at that time.) But
since they're focusing more on plus-size clients, it makes sense for
them to have a majority of plus-sized models in their catalog.
I am all for having a variety of body sizes and types in clothing
catalogs, but I also recognize that it's not realistic to have EVERY
body type shown for EVERY piece of clothing in EVERY catalog. It's just
not cost effective, particularly for small businesses that do mostly
custom work. For this catalog, every item you see was made to that
model's measurements; I can't imagine trying to do that for several
different body types. Perhaps they would get a few more sales if there
were a dozen different models for each style, but my guess is that the
tradeoff wouldn't be worth the additional work.
Now, having blathered about all of that, I always feel there's nothing
stopping any potential customer from telling a business (politely) that
they would appreciate seeing their particular body type better
represented in that business's catalog or merchandise. It's always
possible that a business isn't aware that their merchandise does appeal
to other customers, and they need to know the interest is there to know
whether it's worth expanding. Even if they choose not to serve
particular markets, they'll at least be making informed decisions, and
the potential customer has made their voice heard.
Ice Princess
Rozz
catalogue there's probably at least 3 "normal to smaller sizes" catalogues.
In the UK anyway.
Rozz
unbroken
here's what I wrote last night (just a little edited).
My opinion is they should stick to the normal size model. I'm 5'8" and wear
anywhere from a 0-4 and I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy. It
was never supposed to be that way and I emailed them and they contacted me
back and said they were adding in thinner models (what a relief) and showed
me some pics but even still only one was close to my size
(in a corset I didn't like so that didn't help). Such a pain in the butt
change for me. I just can't imagine something on me that's been worn by
someone who's a 12 or 14. Basically because it's hard to tell how it'd look.
Since modeling existed they have always been thin and it should stay that
way.
Guess it's a good thing I sew most of my own corsets.
Isabella
Former fashion model.
"Rozz" <bunnythefishn...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt6f0d$bli$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Ice Princess
>
> My opinion is they should stick to the normal size model. I'm 5'8" and wear
> anywhere from a 0-4 and I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
> people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy.
[...]
> Since modeling existed they have always been thin and it should stay that
> way.
Well, aren't you a charmer.
I suggest you stay inside your own little fantasy world where everyone
is as perfect as you are and spare the rest of us.
Ice Princess
WhiteWitch
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9rDJb.106816$JW3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I thought I put a reply, guess not. But my mail client saves everything so
> here's what I wrote last night (just a little edited).
>
> My opinion is they should stick to the normal size model. I'm 5'8" and
wear
> anywhere from a 0-4 and I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
> people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy.
Hmm... I am 5'6" and in order for me to be a size 4, I would need to weigh
about
129 pounds. According to my doctor, the absolute LOWEST I should weigh to be
healthy is 135. That puts me at 8% body fat. For my age, I should be closer
to the 10-12%
body fat range, which puts me at 137.5-140. These numbers are based on my
lean body
mass as calculated by a number of methods, a number of times, and backed up
by
a recent military entrance physical.
What, exactly, do you consider healthy?
>It
> was never supposed to be that way and I emailed them and they contacted me
> back and said they were adding in thinner models (what a relief) and
showed
> me some pics but even still only one was close to my size
> (in a corset I didn't like so that didn't help).
I guess you may have noticed not many people are actually your size that are
old enough
to model corsets legally. This is just a wild stab in the dark, but I'd
guess you don't
have many curves. An Edwardian corset might be more what you're looking for.
A)They are not designed with much interest in the waist, and
B) They have virtually no room for boobs, so everything is pushed up and
accentuated.
Viola, cleavage!
>Such a pain in the butt
> change for me. I just can't imagine something on me that's been worn by
> someone who's a 12 or 14.
Eww, icky fat people are nothing like me.
>Basically because it's hard to tell how it'd look.
Are we looking at the same pictures?
> Since modeling existed they have always been thin and it should stay that
> way.
Not true, actually. Since the 70s it's always been that way.
You either show your youth, your inexperience,
or your ignorance by that statement. You pick.
>
> Guess it's a good thing I sew most of my own corsets.
>
Or you could just make your own way to the closest
place that sells them and actually try one on.
> Isabella
> Former fashion model.
>
Really? I'd love to see some pics. As you know, we all simply _adore_
fashion here...surely you still have something in your portfolio?
Perhaps one of the shops that advertises here would like to
trade goods (a custom corset) for services (your modeling).
In any event, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that
I'd really like to see some pics of you modeling.
H.
Serpentbearer
> here's what I wrote last night (just a little edited).
>
> My opinion is they should stick to the normal size model. I'm 5'8" and
wear
> anywhere from a 0-4 and I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
> people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy.
I just don't get these US sizes - if you are a size 0 does this mean you are
basically invisible? Yes, I'm being flippant.
I haven't posted on here in a while, but was actually riled enough by your
post to write a vitriolic response. Then I decided you were just trying to
get a rise. Well done, you succeeded; now I'm going to ignore you.
Becky
(yes, I know I shouldn't feed it, but I had all that stale bread left over
from feeding the ducks...)
unbroken
the lowest I could be around 123. But I still wear a 0-4. (my doctor's kind
of wonder sometimes how I look so skinny but weigh an average weight) and my
BMI is around 20 or so. I suppose it's muscle, don't quote me on it though.
I eat all the time and don't work out so I'm stumped heh. So that's what I
consider healthy, a thin but eating girl.
I have a perfectly curved figure. I actually have boobs as well and I wear a
larger b to a small c (actually a b sometimes is far too tight). And no,
they aren't fake. I'm also into historical clothing, I came across her site
while pretty much browsing. I sew all my own corsets and I sew Tudor era
corsets. I may want to try a Victorian one, so I was looking around at the
different styles. I don't think cleavage is an issue here. I did a lot of
fashion modeling a few years ago and well being thin and having boobs is a
great thing in that area.
Marilyn Monroe may have been a size 12 but a size 12 today would be more
like a 6 or an 8. She had a nice figure, but the women on corset.net are
vomit inducing and models were never that big.
I didn't do gothic/freak modeling. I did fashion modeling like the stuff
seen in Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. I'm not a Goth (even though I'm sometimes
called one) and have no interest in gothic modeling. Plus gothic models are
widely known for being a little "poofier". I also wouldn't model for little
shops, I'll leave that to the inexperienced. I don't trade either,
especially since I make all my own corsets (as I've said) that'd be a pretty
pointless trade and when I did do modeling I charged upwards to 200$ an hour
(non-nude, never used my body in such degrading ways) and since it costs
about 50$ to make a corset, that'd be pointless.
Isabella
"WhiteWitch" <heathe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H2GJb.41368$DC4....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
unbroken
site because I hate people who think that fat models should be everywhere. I
have no problem with them I just don't want to see them half naked (well
really, I don't want to see anyone half naked) And no a 0 simply means you
have 34 inch hips or a 34b chest.
"Serpentbearer" <serpen...@REMOVETHISBITblue-period.fsnet.co.uk> wrote
in message news:bt7esd$m0r$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
Robin Colleen Moore
> I weigh 130 lbs which is in my target weight zone according to MY doctor. At
> the lowest I could be around 123. But I still wear a 0-4. (my doctor's kind
> of wonder sometimes how I look so skinny but weigh an average weight) and my
> BMI is around 20 or so. I suppose it's muscle, don't quote me on it though.
> I eat all the time and don't work out so I'm stumped heh. So that's what I
> consider healthy, a thin but eating girl.
>
> I have a perfectly curved figure. I actually have boobs as well and I wear a
> larger b to a small c (actually a b sometimes is far too tight). And no,
> they aren't fake. I'm also into historical clothing, I came across her site
> while pretty much browsing. I sew all my own corsets and I sew Tudor era
> corsets. I may want to try a Victorian one, so I was looking around at the
> different styles. I don't think cleavage is an issue here. I did a lot of
> fashion modeling a few years ago and well being thin and having boobs is a
> great thing in that area.
>
> Marilyn Monroe may have been a size 12 but a size 12 today would be more
> like a 6 or an 8. She had a nice figure, but the women on corset.net are
> vomit inducing and models were never that big.
Excuse me...*vomit inducing*?!? I saw several perfectly attractive
women in a variety of sizes, none of whom made my gorge rise in the
least. I know plenty of naturally thin women, and I have no problem with
that at all--human beings by nature come in a very wide variety of skin
tones, hair textures, figure types, etc., and that's simply the way it
is. In addition, what individual people find attractive, and what a
given culture finds attractive, also vary greatly, and that's also a
fact of life--one man's (or woman's) trash is another man's treasure,
after all.
>
> I didn't do gothic/freak modeling. I did fashion modeling like the stuff
> seen in Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. I'm not a Goth (even though I'm sometimes
> called one) and have no interest in gothic modeling. Plus gothic models are
> widely known for being a little "poofier". I also wouldn't model for little
> shops, I'll leave that to the inexperienced. I don't trade either,
> especially since I make all my own corsets (as I've said) that'd be a pretty
> pointless trade and when I did do modeling I charged upwards to 200$ an hour
> (non-nude, never used my body in such degrading ways) and since it costs
> about 50$ to make a corset, that'd be pointless.
I don't think anyone has any issues with your having been a model, but
your own issues towards other, less "perfect" models and anything other
than high-paying modeling jobs leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. No
one says that you personally need to find larger women attractive
(although you'd be surprised at some of the men who do ;-) , but there's
a big difference between not finding someone attractive and being a
snide, catty bitch, and your overall tone has definitely crossed the
line. What's wrong with modeling for little shops, after all?
Experience is experience, and, after all, one never knows what the
future may hold--that "little shop" owner/designer may end up becoming
one of the biggest names around, and who's to say s/he couldn't be
helpful to models s/he encountered on the way up? As for nude modeling,
it isn't innately degrading, as a spin through any number of museums or
photography collections can prove. (FWIW, a good friend of mine
actually does do erotic photo shoots--she's not a thin person in the
least, and you'd find her utterly hideous, but you should *see* the
amount of fan mail she gets, and not all from creepy little twerps who
can't get laid to save their lives, either; the tone of the mail is
nothing if not mindbogglingly worshipful--but you'd never know it to see
her on the street pushing a stroller; check out Annie Sprinkle's
_Post-Porn Modernist_ for an idea of how ordinary women can be tricked
out to look like models.)
> > Really? I'd love to see some pics. As you know, we all simply _adore_
> > fashion here...surely you still have something in your portfolio?
> > Perhaps one of the shops that advertises here would like to
> > trade goods (a custom corset) for services (your modeling).
> > In any event, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that
> > I'd really like to see some pics of you modeling.
> >
I'm with White Witch on this one--if you're as high-class a model as you
claim, then surely there are photos of you somewhere on the Net, and you
could easily provide links to them so we could see exactly what you look
like; or even if you don't happen to be online (which would be unusual
these days), what magazines and catalogs have you been featured in, and
in which issues? Or, as is doubtless the suspicion of many here, are
you just another troll who has serious issues with people who aren't as
perfect as you are/you feel they should be (News Flash: the rest of the
people on earth were not put here solely for your visual pleasure, BION!
Frankly, I'm just as happy you *wouldn't* find me attractive--why would
I want to be involved in any way, shape or form with someone as shallow
as you are?) who's talking out their own ass?
Put up or shut up--either show us the goods, or be exposed as the troll
you doubtless are. Your choice, boopsie...
Robin the mad photographer (come on, we're *waiting*...*tapping toe*)
I am happy to be an American. Nowhere else could a Jew with a giant
nose engage in tongue play with an African American with a fabulous
tush after winning an Academy Award on live television for playing a
Holocaust survivor and not have someone declare a holy war against us.
Rozz
> here's what I wrote last night (just a little edited).
>
> My opinion is they should stick to the normal size model. I'm 5'8" and
wear
> anywhere from a 0-4 and I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
> people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy. It
> was never supposed to be that way and I emailed them and they contacted me
> back and said they were adding in thinner models (what a relief) and
showed
> me some pics but even still only one was close to my size
> (in a corset I didn't like so that didn't help). Such a pain in the butt
> change for me. I just can't imagine something on me that's been worn by
> someone who's a 12 or 14. Basically because it's hard to tell how it'd
look.
> Since modeling existed they have always been thin and it should stay that
> way.
>
> Guess it's a good thing I sew most of my own corsets.
>
> Isabella
> Former fashion model.
I still maintain that all people should be represented. You also appear to
have missed the point that I don't have to weigh 8 stone nothing to be
healthy. Do you not think that it's equally hard telling what an item of
clothing will look like on me when it's only modelled by almost-emaciated
people? I'm trying hard not to really let you know what I think of your
attitude, because I'm already in a bad mood and I'll probably regret it in
the morning.
Rozz
PS. I now actually do a little modelling, but on my terms. When I was 13, I
was told by a fashion model recruiter that I was way too big at a size 10-12
(UK sizes), and that I would have to drop to at most a size 8. I worked out
roughly how much I would have to lose, and it put my BMI at about 17, and I
would have weighed 6 stone (which, at 5'7'', was not healthy).
Rozz
This info may id it:
author: unbroken
time (by my computer): after 22:00 GMT
thread: this one
I'm interested to know what was so obnoxious that it was removed. Email it
to me privately if it's not suitable for reposting (remove the, err,
"REMOVE")
Thanks
Rozz
unbroken
almost-emaciated thing. That's why I got out of modeling due to the fact I
didn't want to lose weight. I was happy with myself and I guess that's not
supposed to happen anymore. At a size 10-12 (in euro sizes) I think you
probably should have been fine (and most of the photographers I know would
say that's perfect), And I don't see the different between an 8 and a 10,
there isn't much in my opinion. (I believe I wear between an 8 and 10 in
euro sizes since my measurements are exactly in the middle of both lol).
Actually when I was 12 I wore a size 13 in American sizes due to a
medication that stopped my abnormally fast metabolism (bastard) and I hated
myself more than anything. After I went off it I lost all the weight and
that's when I started modeling. I just got annoyed since there was too much
pressure to be better than everyone else and I didn't feel like competition
(exactly why I got out of music as well). I also didn't feel like starving
myself (can't give up pizza, no way lol). Anyways, I don't think they should
have emaciated models cause that's not fun to look at but looking at really
big people isn't fun either. For some reason it's always one extreme or
another (which was pretty much the whole point of my ranting) and I think
pretty much it should be stuck in the middle. Models should be between the
sizes of 6-10 (obviously would vary with height) in American sizes, that's
my personal belief. Anywho, Rozz I actually like you since you weren't the
first person to take everything completely the wrong way. My whole point was
as previously said, I don't think there should be extremes, no size 18's and
no size 0's.
Isabella
I hate America because it's so free.
Damn feminists. heh.
"Rozz" <bunnythefishn...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7njj$pmd$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
Ice Princess
> I don't think there should be extremes, no size 18's and
> no size 0's.
The average clothing size for female American clothes-buying consumers
is 16. Therefore 18 is not "extreme." Whether you think it *should* be
that way is not the issue. It *is* that way, and those women have money
to spend. Smart retailers will be interested in that money.
Ice Princess
sanura
> I weigh 130 lbs which is in my target weight zone according to MY doctor.
At
> the lowest I could be around 123. But I still wear a 0-4. (my doctor's
kind
> of wonder sometimes how I look so skinny but weigh an average weight) and
my
> BMI is around 20 or so. I suppose it's muscle, don't quote me on it
though.
> I eat all the time and don't work out so I'm stumped heh. So that's what I
> consider healthy, a thin but eating girl.
I'm glad that you are able to maintain that figure without doing much to
help. You're lucky, and yes, it is most probably muscle mass, if you are
active. However, not everyone is so lucky. And, not everyone is the same as
far as how it shows; people can be healthy on the upper end of healthy and
wear a size 12 or 14. In fact, I don't consider a size 12 to 14 person to
look unhealthy at all! But hey, that's just me. And, there is nothing to say
that a size 12 to 14 doesn't have a lot of muscle mass, as some I know do..
They look a little bulky, but in the peak of physical fitness. Also, each
woman has a different shape, and that can also lend to attractiveness...
> I have a perfectly curved figure. I actually have boobs as well and I wear
a
> larger b to a small c (actually a b sometimes is far too tight). And no,
> they aren't fake. I'm also into historical clothing, I came across her
site
> while pretty much browsing. I sew all my own corsets and I sew Tudor era
> corsets. I may want to try a Victorian one, so I was looking around at the
> different styles. I don't think cleavage is an issue here. I did a lot of
> fashion modeling a few years ago and well being thin and having boobs is a
> great thing in that area.
Again, I consider you lucky ;) When I was thiner, I had no cleavage
whatsoever... now I am a little larger, and still, I have hardly any
cleavage.. Grrr.
> Marilyn Monroe may have been a size 12 but a size 12 today would be more
> like a 6 or an 8. She had a nice figure, but the women on corset.net are
> vomit inducing and models were never that big.
Mmmmm, I'd look up some vintage photography if I were you. I think you will
easily find that there are quite a few voluptuous models there. And, have
you actually looked at some pictures of Marilyn? She is not skinny. She is
not a size 6. What I was told was that she was a size 14/16 Australian, or
about 12/14 American, which looks about right. Like Betty Page, she doesn't
look like she is under a size 12 Australian, what is considered pretty
normal here.
Besides, I want to give you a quick and oversimplified explanation of how
marketing works: you pick a target audience, the one that is most likely to
buy your product (and periferal audiences if you will), and you display and
advertise the product in a way which will be most desirable to that market.
In this case, they are marketing to larger women, and you are only part of a
smaller, periferal target market. Therefore, they do not cater to your
wishes so much as to those of the larger woman. Larger women want to see
other larger women wearing the corset, just as you wish to see them on a
smaller model. Therfore, they show larger women in their corsets, so that
they get more business from them. As they are also marketing to the smaller
women, they have shown a few of the corsets on smaller women. If you don't
like larger women, that is your choice entirely, and we are all entitled to
our opinions, however for the owner of the site, showing larger women
modeling their clothes is more profitable, so I doubt if they are going to
replace all of their models with skinnier ones just to make a few smaller
women feel better about buying something, when they are going to get better
business from larger women. Tough breaks, I know, but that's just the way it
is. It's like walking into cue (a shop that does clothing which looks best
on size 8 to 14 here) and wishing that they showed it on a size 20 mannikin;
it just doesn't flatter the clothing and a size 20 woman isn't likely to buy
it anyway.
> I didn't do gothic/freak modeling. I did fashion modeling like the stuff
> seen in Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. I'm not a Goth (even though I'm
sometimes
> called one) and have no interest in gothic modeling. Plus gothic models
are
> widely known for being a little "poofier". I also wouldn't model for
little
> shops, I'll leave that to the inexperienced.
I've always held the view that work is work. And don't assume that everyone
who does modelling on websites for clothing shops are inexperienced. But
hey, that's your choice.
I don't trade either,
> especially since I make all my own corsets (as I've said) that'd be a
pretty
> pointless trade and when I did do modeling I charged upwards to 200$ an
hour
> (non-nude, never used my body in such degrading ways)
Degrading? If it makes you feel degraded, then I guess it is, but you might
find for just as many people it is liberating. I know for me it is, I'm not
ashamed of my body to have to keep it hidden all the time.
and since it costs
> about 50$ to make a corset, that'd be pointless.
>
Well, 50 dollars for materials, but what about time? You can't tell me that
you can make a corset in an hour, which is worth (as you say) $200.
Personally I'd take it, but again, that's just me ;)
Sanura
sanura
> Actually no I wasn't trying to get a rise. I just got very ticked off at
the
> site because I hate people who think that fat models should be everywhere.
I
> have no problem with them I just don't want to see them half naked (well
> really, I don't want to see anyone half naked) And no a 0 simply means you
> have 34 inch hips or a 34b chest.
First of all, don't top-post, you'll get crabs. Read the faq.
Nobody said fat models have to be everywhere, but if your target market is
the larger women than it is *stupid* to show a size 0 model instead of a
size 16 one.
Sanura
Ronda
> I'm with White Witch on this one--if you're as high-class a model as you
> claim, then surely there are photos of you somewhere on the Net, and you
> could easily provide links to them so we could see exactly what you look
> like; or even if you don't happen to be online (which would be unusual
> these days), what magazines and catalogs have you been featured in, and
> in which issues? Or, as is doubtless the suspicion of many here, are
> you just another troll who has serious issues with people who aren't as
> perfect as you are/you feel they should be
Ok...now I am curious and want to see photo's as well.
Just a note that if you read agf through Google you can click on the
name of each person posting to see where and what else they post. If
you suspect a troll chances are good this isn't the only group they
will hit.
::chuckle:: and Robin you make reading agf worthwhile.. oh...and your
cute when you tap your foot! :0 )
Ronda
eclipse
Perhaps size 18 is not extreme in America, but that's because the
average American is overweight. Here in Canada, size 18 would normally
be found in specialty stores for fat women (implying that size 18 IS
extreme if you need to go to a specialty shop to get it). If you look at
women around the rest of the world, size 18 IS extreme.
Clothes look better on healthy people, so why would a retailer want to
make their product look bad by putting it on someone fat? Smart
retailers will have beautiful models wearing clothes in a healthy size
range because those are the people most likely to buy nice clothes.
I must take issue with your assumption that because the average American
woman is overweight that there is a big (pardon the pun) market for nice
clothes in large sizes. A woman who lets herself go to the point of
being a size 18 obviously does not care much about her appearance. I'll
bet the average fat woman spends less on makeup, haircuts, and perfume
than a healthy woman, too. Someone who doesn't care about her appearance
will not be likely to spend money on nice clothes. On the other hand,
someone who makes the effort to stay in shape obviously *does* value her
appearance, and would be more likely to shell out some bucks for some
nice clothes.
If a business is selling nice clothes, it doesn't make sense to target
the average (as you have defined average, that is, size 16) American
woman. It makes more sense to target the fit American women who, despite
being a minority in number, spend a majority of the retail dollars spent
on women's clothes in the US.
eclipse
TheLorriedel
>From: eclipse
" A woman who lets herself go to the point of being a size 18 obviously does
not care much about her appearance. I'll
bet the average fat woman spends less on makeup, haircuts, and perfume
than a healthy woman, too. Someone who doesn't care about her appearance
will not be likely to spend money on nice clothes. On the other hand,
someone who makes the effort to stay in shape obviously *does* value her
appearance, and would be more likely to shell out some bucks for some
nice clothes."
I disagree with your opinion. I qualify as a large woman and I do care
about my appearance. I take great pride in choosing clothes, shoes, makeup,
etc., and looking my best. In a perfect world, there would be a virtual model
that one could assign one's measurements, and we all could see how a garment
would look on us before we bought it. In the future someone may come up with
such a virtual model, but until then we will just have to look at the models
provided and imagine how the lines of the garment in question will look on us.
I hope that you did not intend to be cruel, and that your callous remarks
were just the thoughtless reflections of youth. I can't wait to see if you are
still the same size in 20 years. I hope you are, because if you are not, I
don't think you will be able to be happy. And in 40 years?...Best perhaps to
not think of that.
Lorriedel
sanura
news:opQJb.154579$ss5.46634@clgrps13...
> Ice Princess wrote:
> > unbroken wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't think there should be extremes, no size 18's and
> >>no size 0's.
> >
> >
> > The average clothing size for female American clothes-buying consumers
> > is 16. Therefore 18 is not "extreme." Whether you think it *should* be
> > that way is not the issue. It *is* that way, and those women have money
> > to spend. Smart retailers will be interested in that money.
> >
> >
> > Ice Princess
>
> Perhaps size 18 is not extreme in America, but that's because the
> average American is overweight. Here in Canada, size 18 would normally
> be found in specialty stores for fat women (implying that size 18 IS
> extreme if you need to go to a specialty shop to get it). If you look at
> women around the rest of the world, size 18 IS extreme.
Size 18 here is also in the 'plus sized' stores. However, a size 18 here is
about a size 16 I believe in American sizing.
> Clothes look better on healthy people, so why would a retailer want to
> make their product look bad by putting it on someone fat? Smart
> retailers will have beautiful models wearing clothes in a healthy size
> range because those are the people most likely to buy nice clothes.
" I understand the original poster's point. What I was trying to do, and
don't think I communicated well, was explain that Xcentricities (the
actual name of the business at http://www.corset.net/ ) has made a
deliberate choice to focus more on larger-sized customers. They get a
significant portion of their business from the science fiction/fantasy
convention and Rennfaire scenes, where a lot of ladies (and gentlemen)
tend to be at the larger end of the size scale. It's not fundamentally
a political statement to push plus over small, it's just a business
choice. " -- this is a reply from earlier on in the thread, from Ice
Princess. I think that it pretty much adequately describes why they have
chosen to show larger women rather than smaller. If you want to argue
marketing strategies, do it with a sound knowlege of the situation first.
You might also see that the price of the larger corsets is more, so it may
be that they also recieve a little more profit from the larger items,
therefore making it more worthwhile to do the larger sizes (but that's just
a guess).
> I must take issue with your assumption that because the average American
> woman is overweight that there is a big (pardon the pun) market for nice
> clothes in large sizes. A woman who lets herself go to the point of
> being a size 18 obviously does not care much about her appearance.
Yeouch! Are you a larger girl? If you're not, I think that you shouldn't be
making that statement, as you're assuming a hell of a lot. I'm a little
large, probably about a size 14 to 16 american, and I take a hell of a lot
of pride in my appearance. I know quite a few larger girls who take more
time primping and preening than me and could hold me to shame easily ;)
Don't just assume that because a person is larger that they are not caring
about their appearance.. I'm sure you've watched all the specials and read
all the books, being overweight is the result of many things... bad food
choices, emotional eating (the most common), medical reasons.... And some
people are just more comfortable eating whatever they want and fuck the
weight. If people genuinely want to be smaller, that's an indiviual choice,
one that I personally are persuing at the moment (more for the confidence
and fitness than anything else)... But it sometimes isn't that easy. If your
weight is caused by emotional eating, it isn't just a case of 'I'll eat
healthy and exercise and the weight will just go away', you need to fix the
emotional problems/issues first. Just because someone is overweight doesn't
mean that they don't take care with their appearance. Some overweight
people, of course, don't care all that much about their appearance, but you
can say that about any body size and type, can't you?
I'll
> bet the average fat woman spends less on makeup, haircuts, and perfume
> than a healthy woman, too. Someone who doesn't care about her appearance
> will not be likely to spend money on nice clothes. On the other hand,
> someone who makes the effort to stay in shape obviously *does* value her
> appearance, and would be more likely to shell out some bucks for some
> nice clothes.
>
> If a business is selling nice clothes, it doesn't make sense to target
> the average (as you have defined average, that is, size 16) American
> woman. It makes more sense to target the fit American women who, despite
> being a minority in number, spend a majority of the retail dollars spent
> on women's clothes in the US.
As stated earlier, in this case the corsets are more likely to be bought by
the larger woman because of whatever reasons (ren faire, etc etc). And when
it comes down to it, it is the company's decision whether it wants to show
larger or smaller models. In time, they will know whether they have made a
mistake in showing mostly larger sizes anyway... though looking at the site
itself, there seems to be a lot of size 10s, and I consider that to be quite
normal. But that's just me.
Sanura
sanura
> I have a perfectly curved figure. I actually have boobs as well and I wear
a
> larger b to a small c (actually a b sometimes is far too tight). And no,
> they aren't fake. I'm also into historical clothing, I came across her
site
> while pretty much browsing. I sew all my own corsets and I sew Tudor era
> corsets. I may want to try a Victorian one, so I was looking around at the
> different styles. I don't think cleavage is an issue here. I did a lot of
> fashion modeling a few years ago and well being thin and having boobs is a
> great thing in that area.
Just to let you know, have a look at the 'wedding' corset, as it is a
victorian style corset on a size 6 model, it might give you an idea of how
it would look on someone closer to your size.
Sanura
sanura
> >Actually no I wasn't trying to get a rise. I just got very ticked off at
the
> >site because I hate people who think that fat models should be
everywhere. I
> >have no problem with them I just don't want to see them half naked (well
> >really, I don't want to see anyone half naked)
I actually looked at the site, and only three women seemed to be 'half
naked' (although I think half naked should be less), and two were size 10,
the other a size 6.. I don't think that any of those models are plus sized
at all....
And no a 0 simply means you
> >have 34 inch hips or a 34b chest.
>
> Since you're writing about inches I am assuming you're American.
According to
> two major American pattern companies, 34 inch hips and chest put you in
the size
> 10 to 12 range. Patterns can run larger than off the rack, so if a person
wears
> a 10 or 12 off the rack they may be able to go with an 8 to 10 if they are
> making their own clothes. When I (briefly) modeled clothing I was 5'10"
and
> 135-140 lbs, and wore anywhere between an 8 to a 12. You are 5'8" and 130
lbs,
> but wear a 0 to 4?
I'm curious, what is a size 0 then, in waist/hips/bust measurements? I've
never bothered to look.
:)
Sanura
Ice Princess
>
> I must take issue with your assumption that because the average American
> woman is overweight that there is a big (pardon the pun) market for nice
> clothes in large sizes. A woman who lets herself go to the point of
> being a size 18 obviously does not care much about her appearance. I'll
> bet the average fat woman spends less on makeup, haircuts, and perfume
> than a healthy woman, too. Someone who doesn't care about her appearance
> will not be likely to spend money on nice clothes. On the other hand,
> someone who makes the effort to stay in shape obviously *does* value her
> appearance, and would be more likely to shell out some bucks for some
> nice clothes.
So, you're friends with "unbroken," then? Because I can only assume at
this point that we are being tag-team-trolled.
You are welcome to find fat people unspeakably ugly in your own personal
sense of aesthetics. But I would encourage you to do some research if
you are going to make sweeping generalizations such as the one above--I
believe you will find that your assumptions are not correct.
That said, however, I do believe I am done with this thread, as my
desire to psychoanalyze some of the participants is becoming
overwhelming and that would be rude, and I certainly have no desire to
be as rude as some of the participants have been.
Ice Princess
L
> your own issues towards other, less "perfect" models and anything other
> than high-paying modeling jobs leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. No
> one says that you personally need to find larger women attractive
> (although you'd be surprised at some of the men who do ;-) , but there's
> a big difference between not finding someone attractive and being a
> snide, catty bitch, and your overall tone has definitely crossed the
> line.
Robin, I think I love you.
~L
Fustanella
Um, no. Plus inclusive with thin, I would hope.
Kateri
"TheLorriedel" <thelor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040104043147...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: Corset.net
> >From: eclipse
<snip>
> I disagree with your opinion. I qualify as a large woman and I do care
> about my appearance. I take great pride in choosing clothes, shoes,
makeup,
> etc., and looking my best. In a perfect world, there would be a virtual
model
> that one could assign one's measurements, and we all could see how a
garment
> would look on us before we bought it. In the future someone may come up
with
> such a virtual model, but until then we will just have to look at the
models
> provided and imagine how the lines of the garment in question will look on
us.
<snip>
> Lorriedel
La Redoute has just such a virtual model, it's quite fun.
www.redoute.co.uk
But I can't get my right hair on it...very annoying.
kateri.
Binkey
Well put. I have this minute finished reading the thread and I
couldn't see any logical reason for Unbroken and Eclipse to even
debate the subject (or should I say airing their outcry) of using plus
size models on sites where "normal" size models would do, except just
to fuck with people.
To Unbroken: knowing what your preferences were, you could have EASILY
found ANOTHER site that would have suited your needs perfectly without
bothering the rest of us with the narrow-minded blather. It's 2004 and
regardless of whether you agree with it or not things *have* changed
in reference to sizing, so perhaps next you could (and should) invest
a bit more substance and a hell of a lot more research into your
subject matter before daring to condescend to people again.
~ Binkey
Feeling that Sunday decay.
++++
You know what they say about love and war - one involves a lot of
physical
and psychological pain...and the other one is war.
++++
WhiteWitch
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:bt8fm4$7ek$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> www.cafeshops.com/sanura_kitten - for alt.gothic.fashion merchandice.
<huge snip of elegantly phrased reply>
>
> Sanura
>
>
(best spongebob face)
*you're good at that!*
H.
WhiteWitch
> > unbroken wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't think there should be extremes, no size 18's and
> >>no size 0's.
> >
> >
> > The average clothing size for female American clothes-buying consumers
> > is 16. Therefore 18 is not "extreme." Whether you think it *should* be
> > that way is not the issue. It *is* that way, and those women have money
> > to spend. Smart retailers will be interested in that money.
> >
> >
> > Ice Princess
>
> Perhaps size 18 is not extreme in America, but that's because the
> average American is overweight. Here in Canada, size 18 would normally
> be found in specialty stores for fat women (implying that size 18 IS
> extreme if you need to go to a specialty shop to get it). If you look at
> women around the rest of the world, size 18 IS extreme.
Just curious, but which which nation do you suppose has the most
disposable income for spending on things like, say, clothing?
Unless I am just very mistaken, it's the American markets that
are most heavily sought after by foreign exporters. Including,
I believe, Canadian ones. Another point I'd like to make is that
trhe rest of the world is not far behind America in getting fatter by the
day.
>
> Clothes look better on healthy people, so why would a retailer want to
> make their product look bad by putting it on someone fat? Smart
> retailers will have beautiful models wearing clothes in a healthy size
> range because those are the people most likely to buy nice clothes.
>
> I must take issue with your assumption that because the average American
> woman is overweight that there is a big (pardon the pun) market for nice
> clothes in large sizes. A woman who lets herself go to the point of
> being a size 18 obviously does not care much about her appearance. I'll
> bet the average fat woman spends less on makeup, haircuts, and perfume
> than a healthy woman, too. Someone who doesn't care about her appearance
> will not be likely to spend money on nice clothes. On the other hand,
> someone who makes the effort to stay in shape obviously *does* value her
> appearance, and would be more likely to shell out some bucks for some
> nice clothes.
>
Where do you get your information? Clothing in larger sizes always costs
more, and since there are more larger people, they buy more of these
more expensive items.
> If a business is selling nice clothes, it doesn't make sense to target
> the average (as you have defined average, that is, size 16) American
> woman. It makes more sense to target the fit American women who, despite
> being a minority in number, spend a majority of the retail dollars spent
> on women's clothes in the US.
>
> eclipse
>
You must live under a rock. Do you really think that only uber-thin women
are
rich, or are willing to spend money on themselves?
Really, you must live under a rock, or in your own private Neverland.
H.
WhiteWitch
> That said, however, I do believe I am done with this thread, as my
> desire to psychoanalyze some of the participants is becoming
> overwhelming and that would be rude, and I certainly have no desire to
> be as rude as some of the participants have been.
>
>
>
> Ice Princess
Really? You do that for free?
Gosh, and I've been _paying_ for it all this time ;-)...
H.
NightMist
wrote:
Exactly. They ought to be modeling clothes in the sizes that sell,
rather than in the sizes the clothes look attractive at. Nobody is
happy when they buy something and discover that it is a horror in
their size.
Everyone has their own tastes, everyone has their own ideal of
attractive.
So far as health goes, I have a hard time believing that a woman who
beats herself up to stay a size 3 or 4 is any healthier than a woman
who eats and lazes her way to a size XXXXXL.
There are people who have health problems that are over or underweight
and can't do a hell of a lot about it. Not all skinny people are
compulsive dieters, not all fat people are compulsive eaters.
There are also perfectly healthy people that are not small.
I lift weights, I used to compete in powerlifting (more than a decade
ago now). I couldn't squeeze into anything as small as a 12 if I used
vaseline and a shoehorn, but that is mostly due to muscle mass, not
fat.
Just out of curiosity, am I the only one who thinks Rene Z. (no I am
not going to try and spell that!) was more attractive as a size 6 in
Bridget Jones than she is as a size whatever "normally"?
NightMist
does have more body fat than she wants at present, but is working on
it.
--
My karma ran over my dogma
bet...@my.earthlinkdagger.net
> I wish they had thin models so I could see what I'd look like in one. Who is
> in agreement that they should have both a pic of a plus size and an average
> model to see the different body types in certain clothing? Sure would cause
> a lot less disappointment.
Leaving aside for the nonce the fact that Torrid is one of the most sucessful
businesses for the past several years and the fact that people like me can wear
everything from a size 12 to a size 20, depending on how the clothing is sized
(personally, I think there should be a standard sizing chart for all clothing
manufacturers to follow, but that is another kettle o'worms entirely)...
1. Don't like what Yhnared sells? Don't buy from her. Really. That's the beauty
of free enterprise. Nobody is forcing you to buy from her. If you find those
models so ugly, you are more than welcome to buy from a site that has what you
consider to be more attractive women. There is no law that says that she *must*
market to your demographic, any more than Hot Topic *must* market to large-size
women. If they do and it is successfuly, hey great cos' they make a profit, but
they don't have to do so.
2. Just as an FYI, for anybody who is considering buying from her...although I
have two of her corsets, I will not buy from her again. Yes, they are lovely and
amazingly well-constructed, but until she gets her production schedule in better
order (or some semblance of order, actually), I will not buy from her again.
Which, actually has less to do with the size of her models than it has to do
with houw she runs her business.
Take away my dagger to e-mail me
L
> name of each person posting to see where and what else they post. If
> you suspect a troll chances are good this isn't the only group they
> will hit.
Good point Ronda. Fascinating what was found. Posts on
alt.suicide.methods, alt.suicide.holiday, and whatddyaknow, a rather
troll-like hit and run one liner on soc.support.fat-acceptance (duly cross
posted to alt.support.big-folks).
It's also fascinating what one finds when doing a Google search of the
e-mail address being used.
http://www.skyphix.com/old/v2/?pst=Eric&page=viewprofile&user=unbroken
http://www.t1music.com/html/Edetail.asp?EquipID=514
And let's not forget what was said, "and I didn't feel like competition
(exactly why I got out of music as well)." and then check out this find
http://www.albanybands.com/viewclass.html?ID=2627
Isabella/Whitney/Whoever the fuck you are: you're a troll here to get a rise
out of people. the 10 minutes spent looking your e-mail and ID up was worth
it to expose you for what you have been suspected to be.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm kill filing this one.
~L
sanura
news:wZZJb.488$Qo.65...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
What can I say? *giggle* Good job!
Sanura
sanura
> <snip>
> > I disagree with your opinion. I qualify as a large woman and I do
care
> > about my appearance. I take great pride in choosing clothes, shoes,
> makeup,
> > etc., and looking my best. In a perfect world, there would be a virtual
> model
> > that one could assign one's measurements, and we all could see how a
> garment
> > would look on us before we bought it. In the future someone may come up
> with
> > such a virtual model, but until then we will just have to look at the
> models
> > provided and imagine how the lines of the garment in question will look
on
> us.
> <snip>
> > Lorriedel
>
> La Redoute has just such a virtual model, it's quite fun.
> www.redoute.co.uk
>
> But I can't get my right hair on it...very annoying.
>
it up somewhere first, or can you just click on 'try it on your virtual
model' when you bring up an item of clothing?
sanura
Diane Benham
<bet...@my.earthlinkdagger.net> wrote in message
news:3FF86958...@earthlink.net...
> 2. Just as an FYI, for anybody who is considering buying from
her...although I
> have two of her corsets, I will not buy from her again. Yes, they are
lovely and
> amazingly well-constructed, but until she gets her production schedule in
better
> order (or some semblance of order, actually), I will not buy from her
again.
Is she very slow? I looked at her website (thanks to this thread) and was
kind of shocked at the prices (and I have two Dark Garden corsets -- one
leather). For that price, I'd expect it to be better and finished faster
than my DG corsets, which have taken 4-6 weeks.
Mare
>so
>dang tall.
Not all of us. :(
Mare
UV reactive shoes. Mintgloss and other strange but true items.
http://www.goodgoth.com
R. M.
Group: alt.gothic.fashion Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 7:31pm (EST+5) From:
nos...@nomail.com (L) stated
"Good point Ronda. Fascinating what was found. Posts on
alt.suicide.methods, alt.suicide.holiday, and whatddyaknow, a rather
troll-like hit and run one liner on soc.support.fat-acceptance (duly
cross posted to alt.support.big-folks)."
What do previous posts in other groups have to do with anything? It
doesn't take away from the validity of one person's opinion. If this
person thinks fat people are loathsome and disgusting they are entitled
to do so. No amount of group pile ons from people who have weight issues
both mental and physical will change that. Psychoanalysis can work in
the other direction as well. It's clear how peoplle in this group act
when weight is mentioned most are nowhere near as comfortable as they
CLAIM to be with being fat. How about some real truth?
Scatter
Robin Colleen Moore
You mean other than the undisputable fact that you're a moron, a troll,
and an asshole who keeps changing your e-mail address to avoid
killfiles? Everyone has a right to their own opinion, as you
claim...and *my* right is to point you out as the asshat you are. Now,
back in the killfile with you! <PLONK>
Robin the mad photographer (cranky in my old age, and unwilling to
suffer fools)
I am happy to be an American. Nowhere else could a Jew with a giant
nose engage in tongue play with an African American with a fabulous
tush after winning an Academy Award on live television for playing a
Holocaust survivor and not have someone declare a holy war against us.
unbroken
(it makes people feel better lol). I actually feel that all models should
have a Marilyn Figure. She isn't flabby, she's toned. I guess that's my
issue? I don't mind big people, I just mind flab. It's not fun to look at.
I was actually larger once as I said and my boobs stayed the same size. LOL,
I expected one thing out of gaining weight and that was bigger boobs. But
nope, darn!
I've seen a lot of pin-ups. I don't know, they just seem more in shape than
most of the bigger women. I have seen (but ot many) bigger women about a 14
or 16 that weren't flabby or whatever and I thought they looked great!
Nude modeling to me is degrading and I don't think it has anything to do
with self-esteem, just self respect. But I mean it's my opinion and you have
your own right? Wow, finally someone who gets this lol. I just prefer to
cover up my private parts because I feel personally they should only be seen
by my lover. But I think it's great if you want to show off your body, I
personally wouldn't.
I have too much time lol. And it takes about 2 hours to 4 hours. (Depends on
sewing skills). A lot of shoots are about at least 4 hours and since I used
to charge upwards of 200$ then it wouldn't have been worth it. Now, a
Versace corset, sure!!!!!!!! lol.
Oh and to the person up there who's post I glanced over. I've been on here
for a while, I've just been a lurker and figured hell why not post a few
things (mainly about wigs). I never posted to fat acceptance or big people
whatever they were. I didn't even know such groups existed. But thanks for
insulting me and making me out to be a bad person because you don't like my
opinion. Don't be so judgemental and don't get all fussy over an opinion.
Sanura didn't, why do you?
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:bt8fm4$7ek$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
unbroken
Good point. 2/3 of America is overweight. I don't think model's should look
like Kate Moss and be underweight either. *thinks for a second* I think Drew
Barrymore and Kate Winslet should be the "ideal" body type. They are
beautiful, have curves, aren't overweight, guys love their figure, and they
aren't flabby either. And they definitely aren't a size 2.
Isabella.
"eclipse" <nospa...@damnspammers.com> wrote in message
news:opQJb.154579$ss5.46634@clgrps13...
unbroken
I don't think a target market for a corset company shouild be an 18 or 20.
Just my opinion.
And why are fat people wearing Gucci then?
Isabella
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:bt8fql$7gu$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> www.cafeshops.com/sanura_kitten - for alt.gothic.fashion merchandice.
> "unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:MrHJb.108452$JW3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> > Actually no I wasn't trying to get a rise. I just got very ticked off at
> the
> > site because I hate people who think that fat models should be
everywhere.
> I
> > have no problem with them I just don't want to see them half naked (well
> > really, I don't want to see anyone half naked) And no a 0 simply means
you
> > have 34 inch hips or a 34b chest.
>
> First of all, don't top-post, you'll get crabs. Read the faq.
>
> Nobody said fat models have to be everywhere, but if your target market is
> the larger women than it is *stupid* to show a size 0 model instead of a
> size 16 one.
>
> Sanura
>
>
unbroken
at Abercrombie, a 1 at Hollister, and 0 and 1's at a few other places.
Usually a 3 in junior's and usually a 4 in most misses places (a 2 at Old
Navy though). I wear an 8 in European sizes. Euro and US sizing are both
different. A size 8 in Europe is about a size 2 in America.
Yes, I'm 5'8" and I do stump my doctors because I am so thin but weigh an
average weight. I wore a 14 at about 170 lbs.
Isabella
"La Vida Xena" <ladyvid...@THISearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:31mfvv8qk6pmnu053...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 22:34:20 GMT, "unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com>
wrote:
>
> >Actually no I wasn't trying to get a rise. I just got very ticked off at
the
> >site because I hate people who think that fat models should be
everywhere. I
> >have no problem with them I just don't want to see them half naked (well
> >really, I don't want to see anyone half naked) And no a 0 simply means
you
> >have 34 inch hips or a 34b chest.
>
> Since you're writing about inches I am assuming you're American.
According to
> two major American pattern companies, 34 inch hips and chest put you in
the size
> 10 to 12 range. Patterns can run larger than off the rack, so if a person
wears
> a 10 or 12 off the rack they may be able to go with an 8 to 10 if they are
> making their own clothes. When I (briefly) modeled clothing I was 5'10"
and
> 135-140 lbs, and wore anywhere between an 8 to a 12. You are 5'8" and 130
lbs,
> but wear a 0 to 4?
> Xena
unbroken
All depends, thus why I vary between 4 sizes.
Isabella.
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:bt8njt$eru$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
unbroken
but if one thinner girl mentions something about *big* models you all get
your panties up in a bunch? I don't get you people. Be fat, be happy, but
don't be god damn hypocrites.
And the only reason sizing has changed is because 2/3 of America is
overweight and Obesity is the leading cause of preventable death but you
people are too ignorant and blind to see that you are killing yourselves.
Maybe I just don't want to see death whenever I go shopping for clothing.
Either way I do, there's either anorexic girls or fat girls and they both
are killing themselves. SO DON'T BE A HYPOCRITE.
Isabella.
"Binkey" <bin...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:39f857c7.04010...@posting.google.com...
unbroken
eating junk food everyday all day to taking weight gainers. the only time I
gained weight was on a medication I was put on for a short time and I gained
weight too fast which was unhealthy. So, yes, nightmist is right. Some
people can't gain it, some can't lose it. But I'd be happier if I were at
least a 6 or 8.
Rene actually looked better in Bridget Jones diary IMO.
Isabella.
"NightMist" <nigh...@uir.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:3ff84ce0...@news.madbbs.com...
unbroken
health problems. I sure as hell don't work at all for my figure (someday, I
know I will, but I wouldn't starve myself or any of that.) I actually have a
good body fat percentage (it's in normal range) and I've never broken a bone
in my life (although I should have, many times lol). It's hard to really say
if someone who is skinny is unhealthy (but usually noticeable) but normally
anyone over the size 16 is usually unhealthy. Both mentally and physically.
I wouldn't want to look like the girls in Vogue and most guys say they are
so skinny that it makes them ugly.
Which I agree.
Isabella
"La Vida Xena" <ladyvid...@THISearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6argvv8h13mm8u3at...@4ax.com...
> I think part of the reason Americans wear larger sizes is that we're
getting so
> dang tall. I am about six inches taller than my "average" mother, and
about a
> quarter bigger from bone to bone across my shoulders in front.
>
> For reasons I won't go through here, I've been too heavy and I've been too
thin.
> When at my largest people looked at me as if they were suspicious of me or
not
> happy with me, or did not look at me at all -- not wanting to look at a
"fat"
> woman? When I was too thin people looked at me with sadness, as if they
were
> worried about me. It was easier to deal with sad people.
>
> I'm more concerned with cholesterol level and blood pressure than I am how
heavy
> someone is. I worry about the blood pressure of people who put on weight
as
> they age. I also worry about women who are thin enough to have
substantial
> space between their thighs. Something about that sentence doesn't sound
right,
> but I think you know what I mean. By the time a woman is that thin, their
> menstrual cycles can become less regular because her percentage of body
fat is
> abnormally low.
>
> It's true that morbidly overweight people have higher rates of serious
problems
> such as diabetes and blood pressure. It's also true that the very thin
are more
> prone to brittle bones due to osteoarthritis. My opinion is that healthy
> moderation is usually bigger than what you see in the US version of Vogue,
and
> usually smaller than the plus sizes. Notice how I avoided using the word
> "normal" in that last sentence?
>
> As for plus sizes, I'm not talking size 16 or even 18, I'm talking 2x or
22W...
> and up. 18 is rare in a regular store, but not unheard of. You have to
go to a
> special store or special department for 2x's or 20W.
>
> As a side note, I have a friend who does fashion photography for an Asian
> publication of Vogue. He tells me that the Asian models are not as thin.
He
> described a conversation with exotic, beautiful Vogue models from
Singapore who
> said they would not want to model in New York because they'd have to be so
thin
> that they'd look sad and sick like the Western models.
>
> Xena
unbroken
And also due to 2 out of 3 of those people are obviously overweight (as 2/3
of America is). Just thought you should know.
And I don't have any intentions of buying one from her. I'm a seamstress and
make my own and I am actually consider starting a home based custom clothing
business catering to people interested in Tudor and Elizabethan fashions
wether big or small. But I do occasionally buy from other retailers. Her
prices would be fine if the corset came right away and I like the designs a
lot, but I don't want to order something from a company who I get the
impression thinks fat is best because there is a chance they could just not
put care into making my corset because I'm of a smaller size. If I do start
my own business I'll have pictures of every gown/corset/skirt/bodice/
whatever in both a plus size and thinner model (not anorexic thin). I just
think every company should do that because I don't think it's time consuming
to take a picture of both a small and big person. Just my opinion. We should
be equally serviced. And I'd work as equally hard to please someone bigger
as I would for someone who is smaller. Whoever got the idea that I "hated"
fat people was a little off since most of my best friends in life were
bigger.
Isabella
<bet...@my.earthlinkdagger.net> wrote in message
news:3FF86958...@earthlink.net...
BetNoir
She used to be faster until she expanded her operation. These days, I cannot
recommend her in good faith.
If you want a more detailed explaination as to why I do not recommend her, feel
free to e-mail me at: betnoir underscore newsgroups at earthlink dot net.
unbroken
anything about it as I am not fat so I have no need to accept it.
Isabella.
"R. M." <Turtl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19969-3F...@storefull-3117.bay.webtv.net...
sanura
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> Sizes have changed, a size 14 when Marilyn was alive would be smaller now
> (it makes people feel better lol).
As I said, have you seen the pictures? She wasn't small.. I think it might
have been the curviness that made her the size 12 or 14 or whatever though.
It would be like a size 8 person with a double-d bust... she might be a size
8 everywhere else, but a 12 on top.
I actually feel that all models should
> have a Marilyn Figure. She isn't flabby, she's toned. I guess that's my
> issue? I don't mind big people, I just mind flab. It's not fun to look at.
Personally, I like toned with a little bit of what I call 'feminine fat'
*grin* My way of feeling confortable without rock hard abs. At a size 8 I
still had that, even though the rest of me was rather thin. Clothing here in
adult sizes does not go under a size 8, which would be about a size 6 I
think over in America.
> I was actually larger once as I said and my boobs stayed the same size.
LOL,
> I expected one thing out of gaining weight and that was bigger boobs. But
> nope, darn!
I'm actually a little lucky, my boobs have gotten bigger, but proportionally
they are the same. Hopefully when I lose this weight I will get to keep
them... I've been on both sides of the scale... underweight and over.. and
of the two, I actually perfer the over. It's funny, but the same things seem
to happen with both for me: less energy, more sluggishness, higher health
risks... I want to be back in the middle again, and I'm working towards it
healthily, and hope to get there.
> I've seen a lot of pin-ups. I don't know, they just seem more in shape
than
> most of the bigger women. I have seen (but ot many) bigger women about a
14
> or 16 that weren't flabby or whatever and I thought they looked great!
I think that's what most people are bugged by.. You've made sweeping
generalisations which aren't always the case... And, to a lot of people a
little chubbiness is appealing.. Your opinion may be different but by airing
them in such a way, it's like you're waving meat in front of dogs and daring
them to snap, and then are indignant enough to complain when your hand gets
bitten. Your original post made sense: you want to see the styles you want
in the sizes you want. Well, so does everyone else (yup, even the plus sized
gals). What bites is the fact that to most of the people here, saying that
fat is lothesome and horrific is rather nasty (as well as saying that fat
people can't be models, etc etc), because a lot of us here struggle with our
weight.. Not only that, but most of us also think we look good. Hell, I
think most of us here look good, from what pictures I've seen. And, when I
do see a picture I don't like, I don't comment. I think the cattiness of
some of your statements (or percieved cattiness) has ruffled a few furs,
including my own.
> Nude modeling to me is degrading and I don't think it has anything to do
> with self-esteem, just self respect. But I mean it's my opinion and you
have
> your own right? Wow, finally someone who gets this lol. I just prefer to
> cover up my private parts because I feel personally they should only be
seen
> by my lover. But I think it's great if you want to show off your body, I
> personally wouldn't.
Well, that's a choice we all make :) To me, it is a matter of self esteem,
rather than self respect, just because I am very comfortable with my body
(most of the time...), and I respect my body and myself and can still do so
whilst posing nude and letting other people see those pics. Hell, I have
half-nude pictures of myself up on the fridge at the moment, which were
taken a year and a half ago as 'thinsperation'. Anyone who walks in can see
them :) Either way it is a personal choice.
> I have too much time lol. And it takes about 2 hours to 4 hours. (Depends
on
> sewing skills). A lot of shoots are about at least 4 hours and since I
used
> to charge upwards of 200$ then it wouldn't have been worth it. Now, a
> Versace corset, sure!!!!!!!! lol.
>
> Oh and to the person up there who's post I glanced over. I've been on here
> for a while, I've just been a lurker and figured hell why not post a few
> things (mainly about wigs). I never posted to fat acceptance or big people
> whatever they were. I didn't even know such groups existed. But thanks for
> insulting me and making me out to be a bad person because you don't like
my
> opinion. Don't be so judgemental and don't get all fussy over an opinion.
> Sanura didn't, why do you?
Hey hey hey.. calm down. The logs say that you posted to those groups, using
the same e-mail address. If you didn't, then someone using your e-mail
address and handle did. Google logs don't lie, that I know of.
Sanura
sanura
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> I don't know anything about top posting so I couldn't have done it.
Top posting is replying to a post at the top, rather than below the text of
the previous poster. The reason that people post at the bottom in newsgroups
is because then the next person who reads it can find out what the
discussion is about before jumping it.. It's just an easier and more
effective way to post, and makes things easier for all involved. You might
want to consider reading through the faq for this newsgroup.
> I don't think a target market for a corset company shouild be an 18 or 20.
> Just my opinion.
As was stated earlier in this thread by Ice Princess, this company targets
mainly the ren faire and sci fi crowd. People who participate in these
activities are generally a little on the plump side, it seems. Therefore,
this company has decided to cater to this group as their main target
audience. The company itself has probably done at least some initial market
research regarding their target group to find out what corsets they like
best, what they want to see in a corset, etc etc, and have produced the
items which are most likely to appeal to these women. They probably would
have also found out that a larger woman is less likely to buy a product if
they can't see what it is like on a larger woman. By showing mostly larger
women on their site they are more likely to get the business from these
women that other sites that only show smaller models did not. By doing this
they have cornered a niche market that is currently not catered to as fully
as most larger people probably want; a corset for the larger woman, that
they can see on a larger woman before ordering, instead of just ordering and
hoping for the best. So their corsets are formulated for the larger woman,
their catalogue is formulated for larger women, in order to corner the
internet sales market for corsets for larger women.
It's like putting a 0-24 store in a mall full of 0-16 stores.. If there is a
size 18 person in that mall, sitting in the food court maybe after doing
their grocery shopping, their next stop is the 0-24 store where they can see
the plus sized mannikins in the window, rather than any of the other
clothing stores in that mall. Therefore that store has 100% control of the
plus sized market in that shopping centre. If their product is then superior
to other plus sized clothing, they will also get people coming to that store
from the surrounding districts also. However, now and then there are also
people who wander in there from time to time that are under a size 18...
There isn't as many 0-16 people who buy from that store as plus sized people
though, because they have a more competitive marketplace to choose from, and
can see their clothes on the display mannikins in so many other stores in
that mall. Therefore, the 0-16 range forms what is known as a periferal
market; those people who are still likely to by the product, but not as
likely to buy as the target market. Ok, does that kinda give you an idea of
why they have decided to target larger women? I can't really explain it any
more simply.
> And why are fat people wearing Gucci then?
Because in this case it is in reverse. Gucci targets mainly the smaller
woman, with larger women forming their periferal market.
Sanura
unbroken
argue the size except sizes back then were like pattern sizes today and
today's sizes are quite awkward.
I don't like rock hard muscle, I meant lean muscle, not bulky, bulky women
are uhm... they are different. lol.
I feel more energetic and such when I'm more in shape (but I end up losing
more weight if I do exercise so I don't).
I never meant it as fat people are loathsome or horrific, in fact I don't
recall ever saying that! I think people over a size 20 could stand to lose
some weight but I think women who are a size 8 but have a lot of flab
hanging over their pants should lose weight too. I don't comment on fat
girls pictures either. I know if I do I'd get flamed. But I don't think I
deserved to be flamed on saying that I think there should be a happy median
and not just fat or thin models. I recall that not too long ago there was
another fat vs. thin thread saying that there should be more fat models but
we thin people didn't get insulted. I mean, come on, there's a lot of
hypocrites in this group, and it's down right annoying.
As I said, do what you want with modeling, I just hink modeling nude is
degrading. Thinsperation? I've heard that term used by anorexics. I hope you
aren't falling into that deathly trap.
Hmm, I don't know. I have a list of my groups here and those aren't on it
and I've never heard of them. I'm actually a recovered anorexic (which was
pointless, I ended up so small that a 0 was baggy and I looked like hell, so
much for that lol) so I guess right there should say I'm not a part of a fat
acceptance group (logical thought). I guess I'll call my ISP or something,
cause I don't want to think that anyone else is using my email address. I
could understand using my handle lol, Isabella is quite commonly used, but I
know for sure I never used those groups and if I did then I don't think I'd
have an issue with plus size models IMO. That's a logical thought right
there.
Isabella
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:btaji1$uea$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
unbroken
was.
I don't think a corset companies target should be above an 18 because as my
mother (who is an 18) said, she couldn't picture anyone that size in one and
it's quite scary. Victorian women weren't big, nor were Edwardian women. And
I don't go to rennfaires (they are too commercialized, lame) but I still
dress in 16th century wear. I also don't recall seeing a Tudor or
Elizabethan corset on there so I don't know why they'd cater to RennFaire
goers when someone like www.belleofthebay.com (who is amazing with corsets)
who specializes in that could probably make a much better period corset
(and I believe she models her own stuff and she's no twig, but she doesn't
wear just the corset without anything under it).
(I couldn't read everything, I'm fairly tired, sorry).
Isabella
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:btal4s$vft$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
unbroken
actually an Elizabethan corset and not even near close to one.
Isabella
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6N3Kb.112142$JW3.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
sanura
> argue the size except sizes back then were like pattern sizes today and
> today's sizes are quite awkward.
>
> I don't like rock hard muscle, I meant lean muscle, not bulky, bulky women
> are uhm... they are different. lol.
>
> I feel more energetic and such when I'm more in shape (but I end up losing
> more weight if I do exercise so I don't).
I feel more energetic too.. I love that side effect of being a bit smaller
*grin* And the good thing is that when I am active, I lose a hell of a lot
of weight rather fast.
> I never meant it as fat people are loathsome or horrific, in fact I don't
> recall ever saying that!
Sorry, I'm misquoting! Was another person i believe who must have said that,
because I just went through all the replies on this thread and I can't see
it in there.
I think people over a size 20 could stand to lose
> some weight but I think women who are a size 8 but have a lot of flab
> hanging over their pants should lose weight too. I don't comment on fat
> girls pictures either. I know if I do I'd get flamed. But I don't think I
> deserved to be flamed on saying that I think there should be a happy
median
> and not just fat or thin models.
I don't think that there should be just fat or thin either. I also think
that there should be 'healthy mediums' too. But if the company is targeting
larger women, then I think they should use larger models.. If the clothing
is marketed towards a thin as thin person, then it should be modelled by
them. As it is, the site mainly targets the larger woman, so it mostly shows
larger women modelling the clothes. It does have smaller models too, so it
kinda equals out in my mind. *shrugs*
I recall that not too long ago there was
> another fat vs. thin thread saying that there should be more fat models
but
> we thin people didn't get insulted. I mean, come on, there's a lot of
> hypocrites in this group, and it's down right annoying.
I believe that the main argument with the thread had to do with the fact
that some pictures of fat models show from only bust up, rather than the
whole figure. And as I recall, there were a few thin people who got up in
flames about it, thus making it degenerate into a 'fat vs thin' thread..
Hell, there needs to be thin people arguing to make it into fat versus thin,
because if there wasn't two sides then there would not have been any debate
anyway.
> As I said, do what you want with modeling, I just hink modeling nude is
> degrading.Thinsperation? I've heard that term used by anorexics. I hope
you
> aren't falling into that deathly trap.
Yes, it was originally picked up in that context. I was curious about
pro-anna after watching a special about it, and looked it up and read the
sites etc. I don't intend to go annorexic, I don't support it as a
lifestyle, but curiously enough I do like the idea of pictures of small
women as inspiration, and I thought that there is no better inspiration than
myself.. when I was smaller (uhh, not annorexic).
> Hmm, I don't know. I have a list of my groups here and those aren't on it
> and I've never heard of them. I'm actually a recovered anorexic (which was
> pointless, I ended up so small that a 0 was baggy and I looked like hell,
so
> much for that lol) so I guess right there should say I'm not a part of a
fat
> acceptance group (logical thought). I guess I'll call my ISP or something,
> cause I don't want to think that anyone else is using my email address. I
> could understand using my handle lol, Isabella is quite commonly used, but
I
> know for sure I never used those groups and if I did then I don't think
I'd
> have an issue with plus size models IMO. That's a logical thought right
> there.
Actually, I meant 'unbroken'. But yeah, it might be a good idea to look it
up, just in case.
Sanura
unbroken
energy, it's quite amazing. I'll just stick to caffeine lol. Healthy huh?
Yeah, I don't think they are "horrific", I just don't want to see them in
revealing clothing (well, anyone over a 16 anyways). As I have had many very
good friends who were big so that'd be hypocritical of me if I said that. I
have nothing against fat people, because judging them by their weight is
wrong. (But they are very touchy about it for being so comfortable with it).
Clothing should be marketed to both because if it is they will get business
from all shapes and sizes. To me, that makes more since. And that's what I
would do/plan to do.
Ahhh yeah, I had a really good friend who was all hardcore anorexic (more
like, hardcore I want to kill myself IMO). Thinsperation I guess is ok if
you don't take it to the extreme. Never make weight loss your life.
Ahh, I don't usually use unbroken, mainly on yahoo (which has numbers at the
end), my journal, pogo (numbers too) and well that's about it. Otherwise I
go by Isabella and what I use as my aim screen name. unbroken is usually
already taken by someone.
Isabella
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:btameh$pc$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
TheLorriedel
>www.redoute.co.uk
>
>But I can't get my right hair on it...very annoying.
>
I will check it out. Thank you!
Lorriedel
TheLorriedel
>Subject: Re: Corset.net
>From: "unbroken"
>snip<
> If I do start
>my own business I'll have pictures of every gown/corset/skirt/bodice/
>whatever in both a plus size and thinner model (not anorexic thin). I just
>think every company should do that because I don't think it's time consuming
>to take a picture of both a small and big person. Just my opinion. We should
>be equally serviced. And I'd work as equally hard to please someone bigger
>as I would for someone who is smaller. Whoever got the idea that I "hated"
>fat people was a little off since most of my best friends in life were
>bigger.
>
>Isabella
That sounds like a great idea. Let us know when you open your new business.
I can do some sewing myself, but I have never sewn a bodice I was happy with.
Lorriedel
Ice Princess
>
> I never meant it as fat people are loathsome or horrific, in fact I don't
> recall ever saying that!
Oh, you're so cute.
> Subject:
> Re: Corset.net
> Date:
> Sat, 03 Jan 2004 22:15:19 GMT
> From: "unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com>
> Organization: Road Runner
> Newsgroups: alt.gothic.fashion
> References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8
[...]
>...but the women on corset.net are
> vomit inducing and models were never that big.
And please stop posting your replies above the quoted material. That's top-posting.
Ice Princess
Frances Kathleen Moffatt
[regarding, insofar as I can tell, average-sized women modelling corsets]
> It was never supposed to be that way
> Such a pain in the butt change for me.
It's so sad watching people discover the world doesn't cater to their
every whim.
> Since modeling existed they have always been thin and it should stay that
> way.
Ah, a well-informed throughly modern view, which gently ignores such minor
details as Marilyn Monroe, Dorian Leigh, and the commercialization of
product <foo> that women could use to gain weight and become more
attractive. Modelling existed before you flipped through the magazines,
sweetheart.
On the one hand, I suppose it's good that the trolls are getting boring
and repetitive--it makes them easier to filter. On the other hand, the
fact that the Turing Test is now easier to pass not because machines are
more intelligent but because some people online are such fucking morons is
really depressing.
> Isabella
I think that's "Elisa", actually.
> Former fashion model.
You and Carnie Wilson, baby, though I don't think you rate a _Bitch_
write-up.
Torrain
sanura
> unbroken wrote:
> >
> > I never meant it as fat people are loathsome or horrific, in fact I
don't
> > recall ever saying that!
>
> Oh, you're so cute.
>
> > Subject:
> > Re: Corset.net
> > Date:
> > Sat, 03 Jan 2004 22:15:19 GMT
> > From: "unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com>
> > Organization: Road Runner
> > Newsgroups: alt.gothic.fashion
> > References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8
> [...]
> >...but the women on corset.net are
> > vomit inducing and models were never that big.
Excellent.. I knew I saw it somewhere.
Sanura
sanura
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> Well, don't get your panties all in a bunch. I didn't know what
top-posting
> was.
I thought I wrote it quite rationally, with a good explanation of why it is
that way so that you know why it is that we do it. All newbies get that
nudge in the direction of good nettiquette.
> I don't think a corset companies target should be above an 18 because as
my
> mother (who is an 18) said, she couldn't picture anyone that size in one
and
> it's quite scary.
I thik I explained sufficiently why that company probably did that, but I
guess you know better, having, I'm sure, completed at least part of a
marketing minor like myself.
Victorian women weren't big, nor were Edwardian women. And
> I don't go to rennfaires (they are too commercialized, lame) but I still
> dress in 16th century wear. I also don't recall seeing a Tudor or
> Elizabethan corset on there so I don't know why they'd cater to RennFaire
> goers when someone like www.belleofthebay.com (who is amazing with
corsets)
> who specializes in that could probably make a much better period corset
> (and I believe she models her own stuff and she's no twig, but she doesn't
> wear just the corset without anything under it).
Ren faire, sci fi, corsets made to measure. I think that you might notice if
you ever went to a ren faire that not a hell of a lot of costumes are true
to period. Again, this comes with market research; a company will find out
what people want most and best, and then design their products accordingly.
perhaps it is that most people would sacrifice a little authenticity for
something they can wear socially as well as at ren faire/sci fi events. I've
always found victorian corsets to be the most 'cross over into day-wear'
corsets for me.
> (I couldn't read everything, I'm fairly tired, sorry).
Yet five minutes later you make another post, and again another 15 minutes
after that. Interesting.. Power nap?
<snip my sane replay to thread... at the bottom of the post.>
Sanura
Lucy Bond
<unbr...@nycap.rr.com> writes
>Well, don't get your panties all in a bunch. I didn't know what top-posting
>was.
>
>I don't think a corset companies target should be above an 18 because as my
>mother (who is an 18) said, she couldn't picture anyone that size in one and
>it's quite scary. Victorian women weren't big,
Um... how about Queen Victoria? I'd point you in the direction of some
charming Victorian erotic tales describing (& images illustrating!)
decidedly ample figures as delightful, if I didn't think I'd offend your
delicate sensibilities.
>nor were Edwardian women.
Are you really saying that there were no fat people in the past?!
I'm a person with a clothing site who specifically uses people who are
not models to display her clothing. I've used one or two friends who
happen to be models, but mostly I just use people who I think are good
examples of different body-shapes.
As I sell quite a few items that are similar in style, but with
different prints (like Dane's tops) I get the chance to show quite a few
different sizes of people in the different styles of top (for instance)
while stating which sizes they are wearing, so customers can see how
they might look in them.
It isn't a huge jump of imagination to look at a large model in the top
you like if you are a small person, but then look across & see a very
similarly-cut top on a smaller model, & come to your decision based on
both images...
Personally, I choose to use a variety of sizes, colours & genders of
people, & generally, I prefer NOT to use professional models. Why?
Because not many of my customers are professional models. Not because I
am biased towards any one group, or overly politically correct, but
because I sell clothes to PEOPLE, & people come in all shapes, sizes &
colours. I just like to show the clothes on real folk who enjoy wearing
them. That way seems fairest, in my opinion, & ultimately it is my shop
& my decision, as I'm sure it is with corset.net.
I'm not a corset-seller, but aren't corsets designed to re-shape the
female figure? If you have no flesh to squish about into pleasing
shapes, is there really much point in wearing a corset? Just my personal
opinion, but I think corsets are more flattering to those who have a
little flesh to shape.
You may not want to look at pictures of larger women in corsets, but to
choose a corset online, you have to look at pictures of women who are at
least baring their shoulders & cleavage if you want to get any idea of
how a corset looks. I'd suggest that if this bothers you, you don't look
at pictures of corsets online, as the majority of other people shopping
online for corsets are prepared to see a little skin, whereas it sounds
like you would be safer in a shop, with a changing-room...
Lucy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucy Bond : www.technokitty.com sells Dane cybery tops, dresses & bustiers,
glammy fake fur, Cybertart fun, glittery make-up, rubber spiky goodness & all
things futuristic! *New Sale section!*
Liminity
anybody has wrote this, but here we go, correct me somebody has): In your
post you said this " I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
> people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy."
errr hello? not all thin people are healthy. ever heard of anorexia?
bulimia?
All i can say is i'm glad that now there is a place where you can buy
corsets in bigger sizes. I'm sick of looking through english catalogues such
as Attitude or Extremepie Uk and seeing clothes i like, without the large
size to go along with it. Most of the time i wear xl tees (i lik emy clothes
baggy) but sometimers i wear a large for skinny fits. My friends are envious
of me because i have a fuller figure and my hips dno't poke out of my skin.
In my opinion skinny people look disgyusting. I wouldn't like to be able to
see my ribs, or have no bum at all.
I realise i have just degraded myself by replying to such a whacked
individual. but i'm fat and proud of it.
Living in a world society is so judgemental isn't what earth was intended
for. It was intended for you to get drunk and have lots of sex (with
condoms).
Lots of FAT sex.
Liminity
p.s (even fat people can make it in porn!!!!!)
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9rDJb.106816$JW3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I thought I put a reply, guess not. But my mail client saves everything so
> here's what I wrote last night (just a little edited).
>
> My opinion is they should stick to the normal size model. I'm 5'8" and
wear
> anywhere from a 0-4 and I don't want to flip through catalogs and see fat
> people, I want to see people my size, people who are actually healthy. It
> was never supposed to be that way and I emailed them and they contacted me
> back and said they were adding in thinner models (what a relief) and
showed
> me some pics but even still only one was close to my size
> (in a corset I didn't like so that didn't help). Such a pain in the butt
> change for me. I just can't imagine something on me that's been worn by
> someone who's a 12 or 14. Basically because it's hard to tell how it'd
look.
> Since modeling existed they have always been thin and it should stay that
> way.
>
> Guess it's a good thing I sew most of my own corsets.
>
> Isabella
> Former fashion model.
>
>
> "Rozz" <bunnythefishn...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bt6f0d$bli$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > I'm all for what IcePrincess said....... but for every "larger size"
> > catalogue there's probably at least 3 "normal to smaller sizes"
> catalogues.
> > In the UK anyway.
> >
> > Rozz
> >
> >
>
>
Liminity
Marilyn Monre is a size 16/18n in english sizes.
The Same size as me!
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:bt8fm4$7ek$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> www.cafeshops.com/sanura_kitten - for alt.gothic.fashion merchandice.
> "unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:X9HJb.108293$JW3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> > I weigh 130 lbs which is in my target weight zone according to MY
doctor.
> At
> > the lowest I could be around 123. But I still wear a 0-4. (my doctor's
> kind
> > of wonder sometimes how I look so skinny but weigh an average weight)
and
> my
> > BMI is around 20 or so. I suppose it's muscle, don't quote me on it
> though.
> > I eat all the time and don't work out so I'm stumped heh. So that's what
I
> > consider healthy, a thin but eating girl.
>
> I'm glad that you are able to maintain that figure without doing much to
> help. You're lucky, and yes, it is most probably muscle mass, if you are
> active. However, not everyone is so lucky. And, not everyone is the same
as
> far as how it shows; people can be healthy on the upper end of healthy and
> wear a size 12 or 14. In fact, I don't consider a size 12 to 14 person to
> look unhealthy at all! But hey, that's just me. And, there is nothing to
say
> that a size 12 to 14 doesn't have a lot of muscle mass, as some I know
do..
> They look a little bulky, but in the peak of physical fitness. Also, each
> woman has a different shape, and that can also lend to attractiveness...
>
> > I have a perfectly curved figure. I actually have boobs as well and I
wear
> a
> > larger b to a small c (actually a b sometimes is far too tight). And no,
> > they aren't fake. I'm also into historical clothing, I came across her
> site
> > while pretty much browsing. I sew all my own corsets and I sew Tudor era
> > corsets. I may want to try a Victorian one, so I was looking around at
the
> > different styles. I don't think cleavage is an issue here. I did a lot
of
> > fashion modeling a few years ago and well being thin and having boobs is
a
> > great thing in that area.
>
> Again, I consider you lucky ;) When I was thiner, I had no cleavage
> whatsoever... now I am a little larger, and still, I have hardly any
> cleavage.. Grrr.
>
> > Marilyn Monroe may have been a size 12 but a size 12 today would be more
> > like a 6 or an 8. She had a nice figure, but the women on corset.net are
> > vomit inducing and models were never that big.
>
> Mmmmm, I'd look up some vintage photography if I were you. I think you
will
> easily find that there are quite a few voluptuous models there. And, have
> you actually looked at some pictures of Marilyn? She is not skinny. She is
> not a size 6. What I was told was that she was a size 14/16 Australian, or
> about 12/14 American, which looks about right. Like Betty Page, she
doesn't
> look like she is under a size 12 Australian, what is considered pretty
> normal here.
>
> Besides, I want to give you a quick and oversimplified explanation of how
> marketing works: you pick a target audience, the one that is most likely
to
> buy your product (and periferal audiences if you will), and you display
and
> advertise the product in a way which will be most desirable to that
market.
> In this case, they are marketing to larger women, and you are only part of
a
> smaller, periferal target market. Therefore, they do not cater to your
> wishes so much as to those of the larger woman. Larger women want to see
> other larger women wearing the corset, just as you wish to see them on a
> smaller model. Therfore, they show larger women in their corsets, so that
> they get more business from them. As they are also marketing to the
smaller
> women, they have shown a few of the corsets on smaller women. If you don't
> like larger women, that is your choice entirely, and we are all entitled
to
> our opinions, however for the owner of the site, showing larger women
> modeling their clothes is more profitable, so I doubt if they are going to
> replace all of their models with skinnier ones just to make a few smaller
> women feel better about buying something, when they are going to get
better
> business from larger women. Tough breaks, I know, but that's just the way
it
> is. It's like walking into cue (a shop that does clothing which looks best
> on size 8 to 14 here) and wishing that they showed it on a size 20
mannikin;
> it just doesn't flatter the clothing and a size 20 woman isn't likely to
buy
> it anyway.
>
> > I didn't do gothic/freak modeling. I did fashion modeling like the stuff
> > seen in Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. I'm not a Goth (even though I'm
> sometimes
> > called one) and have no interest in gothic modeling. Plus gothic models
> are
> > widely known for being a little "poofier". I also wouldn't model for
> little
> > shops, I'll leave that to the inexperienced.
>
> I've always held the view that work is work. And don't assume that
everyone
> who does modelling on websites for clothing shops are inexperienced. But
> hey, that's your choice.
>
> I don't trade either,
> > especially since I make all my own corsets (as I've said) that'd be a
> pretty
> > pointless trade and when I did do modeling I charged upwards to 200$ an
> hour
> > (non-nude, never used my body in such degrading ways)
>
> Degrading? If it makes you feel degraded, then I guess it is, but you
might
> find for just as many people it is liberating. I know for me it is, I'm
not
> ashamed of my body to have to keep it hidden all the time.
>
> and since it costs
> > about 50$ to make a corset, that'd be pointless.
> >
>
> Well, 50 dollars for materials, but what about time? You can't tell me
that
> you can make a corset in an hour, which is worth (as you say) $200.
> Personally I'd take it, but again, that's just me ;)
>
> Sanura
>
>
Frances Kathleen Moffatt
> All i can say is i'm glad that now there is a place where you can buy
> corsets in bigger sizes. I'm sick of looking through english catalogues such
> as Attitude or Extremepie Uk and seeing clothes i like, without the large
> size to go along with it.
While I do tend to agree (although really, I never had much of a problem
finding corsets for a really wide range of sizes), could you please not
top-post?
Torrain
unbroken
a 10/12 in US.
Isabella
"Liminity" <myfebruary...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B6dKb.8779$K41...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
unbroken
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:btbh0p$lpe$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Depends on the rennfaire I guess. That's why I don't go. Too commercialize
and only the actors/merchants wear mostly authentic stuff. Why is it that
fat people like it more? Maybe because they wore more clothing then than
they do now. Possibility. My mother says gothic girls are usually fat (she's
a size 18) because they wear all black and black makes you look smaller and
also because they dislike themselves enough to alienate themselves from
millions of people. Makes sense.
You're post was long and dragging. I don't read posts that are a mile long
when I'm tired.
unbroken
news:zowOc3BFoV+$Mw...@newaeonbooks.demon.co.uk...
they were bigger ( as paintings say anyways ) but there is a difference
between a Tudor/Elizabethan corset and a Victorian/Edwardian corset, fat
people look fine squished into a cone. (most people do, since it flattens
you). But they have enough curves so what's the need for a Victorian corset?
(honestly?)
I mean, I'm working on a clothing site, I'll probably use professional
models (including myself) who are about a size 4 and a size 12 so then small
people can see and bigger people can see. (I believe there is a plus size
magazine and most of those women aren't over a size 12/14, in order to get
signed with a modeling agency for a plus size you have to be a 10 or a 12.)
But I wouldn't use an 18 or 22 on something as revealing as a corset. I also
don't want to post a message saying "overweight and fat is ok" because it's
not, not to me, it's looking at death to me. Why would I want to promote
something that is the number 1 cause of preventable death in America?
The skinniest model on corset.net I believe is a size 10 or an 8. I'm about
a 2 or a 4. That's still quite bigger than me (and one of the 10's had huge
arms, I have very thin ones).
I'd prefer to use professional models because it will make people think they
are a model by in fact wearing the garment (has anyone seen the ricki lake
with the really big women who think they are these super models?). It's also
pleasing to the eye. In my experience most people would rather buy something
that's eye pleasing rather than something that isn't. Which is why I
wouldn't buy their corsets because their models simply turned me away from
it (death death death death). I've actually asked a bunch of people I know,
big and small and they'd rather see something of that sort on someone who is
smaller.
There is a point of having too much flesh to squish (look at their size 20
or 22 model, that one looks like she's purposely trying to commit suicide).
I also believe that it's going to be hard to squish fat in far enough
without hurting yourself to get a wasp waist (which is what they were used
for).
A lot of women who are a size 4/6 have cleavage. I don't want to see flab
along with cleavage. I have no problem with places like www.darkgarden.net
They have some revealing stuff but the models are of the right size and
shape to be showing off a lot more skin and don't have flab coming out all
around it. (I believe they have one fat model, but for some reason she isn't
as flabby as the ones on corset.net, probably the use of Photoshop lol). The
woman under Princess Victorian would be the type of model I'd use for
everything. So no, it isn't safer to shop in a changing room, it's safer to
shop where the model's are pleasing (which seems to be everywhere but there,
it's a shame too, they have a nice corset that I would have probably
bought). There is a chance they have lost sales from potential buyers due to
that (and most marketers would say, eye pleasing is best!) Once again, I
have no problem with seeing skin at all. I shop at Victoria's Secret online
and have no problem with it, same with Fredrick's but their models are
pleasing to my (and many others lol) eye. They have cleavage but have a
great body shape. There is one model on VS that has the same body shape as
me so even better.
Isabella
P.S. Atkins' works.
sanura
Thanks for not top posting this time.. it just makes things easier on all.
> Depends on the rennfaire I guess. That's why I don't go. Too commercialize
> and only the actors/merchants wear mostly authentic stuff.
Probably. It generally isn't my scene, and I don't participate in the ren
faire around here more because of the timing of them :) They seem to be when
I can't make it! Overall, I think that the main purpose of most ren faires
and sci fi functions though (as with most any social function) is to have
fun.. Sometimes authenticity is not the main goal, though to a lot of people
it is.
Why is it that
> fat people like it more? Maybe because they wore more clothing then than
> they do now. Possibility.
Maybe. Then again, it might have something to do with the fact that they are
gorgeous clothes which allow people a reason to make something or go out and
buy something. Or perhaps because the clothing does flatter the figure.. I
always feel better in a corset, and not just because I have a constriction
fetish ;)
My mother says gothic girls are usually fat (she's
> a size 18) because they wear all black and black makes you look smaller
and
> also because they dislike themselves enough to alienate themselves from
> millions of people. Makes sense.
Wow. If you think that about us all, then perhaps you shouldn't be in this
group? If fat is so unattractive to you, do you hate looking at your mother?
Does she disgust you too? Black does flatter the figure, and I love that
property of it. That is the reason that I like it sometimes more than other
colours for clothing. I don't think I hate myself though, just because I
want to look good in what I wear.
> You're post was long and dragging. I don't read posts that are a mile long
> when I'm tired.
Tired, but still found time to reply to several other posts afterwards.
Perhaps it had to do with the fact that what I wrote has a ring of truth to
it, and you just can't admit it. Or, perhaps you were tired. Eh, I've had
enough.
Sanura
unbroken
"Frances Kathleen Moffatt" <dv...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:btb8gu$h5j$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
Marilyn Monroe was significantly smaller than a size 18 or 22. Once again,
she is a twig compared to that one model on corset.net.
My mom used to collect Trolls. I don't think she has them anymore though. Or
I'd sell them to you.
I know you're a moron or else you wouldn't have posted such a pointless
reply.
If Isabella is pronounced Elisa in your world then you need to come out of
your hole.
If I recall, Carnie is very fat. As someone who was in the modeling
industry, fashion models aren't fat but if thinking that makes you feel
better then great. I mean, I'm just glad I don't have to go around insulting
people calling them trolls (which you are the one who probably looks like
one.) and calling them fat to feel like God. Sorry hunny, but you aren't
God, not even close. Get a life.
Isabella
unbroken
think of thin as a size 16 in girls and that's it. I said I wanted to see
thin healthy people. That could be anywhere up to a size 10 (due to height)
but I'd rather they be healthy and in shape with out loads of flab (hey
I've seen thin girls with flab hanging over their pants, not sexy.) But I
think I have gotten it by now that everyone here (except a select few) just
assumes as they please.
Not every skinny person has ribs that stick out or whatever. In all
actuality I'd rather see ribs than fat. And I've asked a bunch of people I
know (I asked them a lot about this post) and they agree. If you want to see
death go right ahead. But I'm not one for promoting either overweight or
underweight and I think both are gross. (Once again, assume that thin means
a walking stick, please, it shows your intelligence).
You're fat and proud. You're killing yourself and proud. You're going to die
younger than you have to and your proud. Good for you!!!
I'm not judgmental, I just don't want to see death on every page of a
magazine or catalog and either way I do wether it be fat or anorexic skinny
(personally, I'd rather see anorexic though, at least they aren't so
stubborn and can eventually be helped, but it's people like you that help
fat people to stay that way so they end up dying of so much shit).
And the world wasn't intended for lots of sex (different discussion). But it
seems you're on your way to hell too. Better beg for forgiveness.
Most guys I know wouldn't sleep with a fat chick unless it was pitch dark,
had their eyes closed, and hadn't gotten laid in years.
Isabella
unbroken
"TheLorriedel" <thelor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040105011612...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Ahh well check out Yahoo groups for elizabethanclothing or Tudor fashions,
also the costumers manifesto is a good place. I'm sure someone can help you
make one you like. There is also a good pattern for one, but I forget who
makes it. Don't give up! Once you make one you like you'll be very pleased
:o)
Isabella
unbroken
My mother doesn't disgust me. She wears proper clothing and doesn't walk
around showing off her undergarments either. If fat is covered then I'm
completely fine with it. It's just if I were fat and saying all this then it
seems people wouldn't have an issue with it so if I put what a fat person
said then maybe you guys wouldn't have that big of an issue with it. She
doesn't think fat women should wear revealing clothing. Which I agree with
her since it's not sexy. You can be fashionable but not have to show off
everything you own.
I'm here because I've gotten called goth on many occasions (so I guess it's
true) and gothic girls seem to have some knowledge on period garb and wigs
(I mainly posted asking about wigs). Black is fine to wear but the way some
of you wear it is pretty scary and makes me wonder about what happened to
you all as children lol. So the way you wear it makes me think you hate
yourselves since you are purposely alienating yourselves from society.
I read part of the bottom part, what I got from reading the beginning was a
lot of what you already said so I skipped it since I was tired. I replied to
people who weren't repeating themselves over and over again in a super long
paragraph. So I don't know this "truth" you speak of, but nothing is truth
unless you have evidence to back it up. Mostly everything that's said here
is a matter of opinion, I haven't come across any truth on this thread. Even
I know what I'm saying is my opinion and not written in stone. And a lot of
what you said is opinion and not truth but may be truth in your world and in
your opinion and in your life. But not everyone's. Truth and fact apply to
everyone's life.
Isabella
sanura
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
To many people, an accentuation of curves is attractive. I'm not an expert
on the victorian era, so I'm not going to comment on that one, but I do have
quite a few pictures of artwork and prints done at the time, and most of the
time it seems that the larger figure was considered quite attractive.
> I mean, I'm working on a clothing site, I'll probably use professional
> models (including myself) who are about a size 4 and a size 12 so then
small
> people can see and bigger people can see. (I believe there is a plus size
> magazine and most of those women aren't over a size 12/14, in order to get
> signed with a modeling agency for a plus size you have to be a 10 or a
12.)
I could be wrong, but would I be correct that you have never applied for a
contract at a plus sized modelling agency?
> But I wouldn't use an 18 or 22 on something as revealing as a corset. I
also
> don't want to post a message saying "overweight and fat is ok" because
it's
> not, not to me, it's looking at death to me.
Once again, you have verged off of the original question you posted by far.
This is not constructive. As I've posted before, there are a good many
reasons why that site has probably shown that size of model, it is not
saying that fat is fine, it is saying 'you can still look attractive at this
weight. if you don't like it, don't look. I'd say the same to an overweight
person who laments the fact that all clothing is shown on skinny models.
<snip crap>
> The skinniest model on corset.net I believe is a size 10 or an 8. I'm
about
> a 2 or a 4. That's still quite bigger than me (and one of the 10's had
huge
> arms, I have very thin ones).
There is a size 6 model, for the 'bridal corset'. And I'm curious, only a
second ago you were a size 0, according to your other post.
> I'd prefer to use professional models because it will make people think
they
> are a model by in fact wearing the garment (has anyone seen the ricki lake
> with the really big women who think they are these super models?). It's
also
> pleasing to the eye. In my experience most people would rather buy
something
> that's eye pleasing rather than something that isn't.
Of course. To a larger woman, those pictures are appealing. They are showing
pictures of their sizes, in corsets, and looking good (to them). What looks
good to them may not look good to you, but then, you are not their target
market.
Which is why I
> wouldn't buy their corsets because their models simply turned me away from
> it (death death death death). I've actually asked a bunch of people I
know,
> big and small and they'd rather see something of that sort on someone who
is
> smaller.
>
> There is a point of having too much flesh to squish (look at their size 20
> or 22 model, that one looks like she's purposely trying to commit
suicide).
> I also believe that it's going to be hard to squish fat in far enough
> without hurting yourself to get a wasp waist (which is what they were used
> for).
> A lot of women who are a size 4/6 have cleavage. I don't want to see flab
> along with cleavage. I have no problem with places like www.darkgarden.net
> They have some revealing stuff but the models are of the right size and
> shape to be showing off a lot more skin and don't have flab coming out all
> around it. (I believe they have one fat model, but for some reason she
isn't
> as flabby as the ones on corset.net, probably the use of Photoshop lol).
Of course... because a fat woman can't have muscle and a good distribution
of fat.
On
The
> woman under Princess Victorian would be the type of model I'd use for
> everything. So no, it isn't safer to shop in a changing room, it's safer
to
> shop where the model's are pleasing (which seems to be everywhere but
there,
> it's a shame too, they have a nice corset that I would have probably
> bought). There is a chance they have lost sales from potential buyers due
to
> that (and most marketers would say, eye pleasing is best!)
But appeal to you is not appeal to the target audience, which is not you.
Come back and talk about marketing when you have some knowledge of it,
because it seems that even the most basic marketing strategies I have
explained do not seem to make sense to you. For someone who originally
posted an idea for discussion, you seem to be the one post going off of the
topic. When someone gives you constructive information (such as lucy here)
you seem to twist it into fat vs thin yourself. That is why people are
calling you a troll. If you are not familiar with the term, it generally
means (in this context) a person in a newsgroup that just constantly tries
to stir the pot, or spout meaningless drivel just to get a rise.
<snip more stuff>
Sanura (who should really stop trying to make a point, because it's never
going to get across)
Frances Kathleen Moffatt
> Which is why I
> wouldn't buy their corsets because their models simply turned me away from
> it (death death death death).
Boy, are *you* on the wrong newsgroup.
Torrain
(yeah, I know. It actually struck me as funny, though, unlike most of the
other stuff)
unbroken
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:btc0o5$l7$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Ok, you're starting to frustrate me. Could you just type everything at the
bottom like I do. It's hard to find where you start when you do this.
I'm big on the Tudor and Elizabethan era and having done tons of research on
corsets women in the Victorian era weren't size 18's or 20's.
No, I haven't tried to sign with a plus sized agency but Ford modeling
agency has a plus size division and they aren't over a size 12. Which is how
most of the modeling agencies that actually matter work. (being a model you
learn bout all aspects of the modeling agency, including male modeling).
I never verged off of topic. By what I said you assumed I hate fat people
and that I think they are gross. They are in a way gross but because it
makes me think of death and you need to get a full story before assuming
something. I think their site is giving the message "fat is ok" and it's not
ok, it's the number one leading cause of preventable DEATH. FAT IS NOT
OK!!!! Well, it is, if you want to die quicker. I personally think fat
people who think it's ok actually don't want to live long but don't have
enough strength to commit suicide. Just my opinion, because fat is not
beautiful but it will get you dead quicker.
Size 6 is still bigger than me. 0-4 usually a 2 or 4, I explained I wear a 0
in places like Abercrombie and Hollister.
That's odd. A few fat girls I asked said they wouldn't find seeing fat
people in underwear (corsets) pleasing. Nor would my mother. Generalizing
much? Just cause you prefer fat women doesn't mean all fat people do.
Most fat women don't have muscle or a good distribution of fat. Maybe
someone at a size 14 does but not at a size 22. 22 is screaming death death
death.
Your marketing classes seem to have been off. Knowing people in the business
they say that they choose models who are pleasing to the eye. And a fat girl
is not going to advertise a product in a way that's going to make people
want it. I'm not going off topic so I don't understand. I'm going to assume
you're like 15 because you don't understand conversation. I didn't go off
topic, we are still talking about fat people and modeling if I am correct.
And once again, I didn't twist it but I don't appreciate people being bitchy
about me having an opinion. And I don't look like a troll, models obviously
aren't ugly (well maybe corset.net, and the before pictures for weight
watchers and pro-active). And either way, I simply posted something as I was
wondering why they have to choose fat over thin. It seems like they are
trying to promote fat as beautiful when it's not beautiful because it makes
a lot of people think "oh, you're going to die soon". And it's not
attractive to most men (they prefer thinner, curvier, and not so flabby)
even fat men themselves.
Isabella (who thinks Sanura needs to learn some more about marketing
strategies since her friend who has a business degree thinks she's full of
shit, and so do friends who do photography and figure painting).
unbroken
unbroken
"Frances Kathleen Moffatt" <dv...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:btc0ub$b70$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
I'm glad you find death funny.
Natural selection though.
Isabella
(you must be one of the overweighters)
Liminity
haven;t illegalness.)
Shock horror i'm only 14! Wow. If i'm gonna die young then i shall fulfill
whatever i want during the time i have left.
everyone dies whether it is soon or ;ate, your all gonna go, so don't be a
stupid monkey.
Liminity
"unbroken" <unbr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fofKb.114424$JW3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
sanura
> My mother doesn't disgust me. She wears proper clothing and doesn't walk
> around showing off her undergarments either. If fat is covered then I'm
> completely fine with it. It's just if I were fat and saying all this then
it
> seems people wouldn't have an issue with it so if I put what a fat person
> said then maybe you guys wouldn't have that big of an issue with it.
Hey, I think that most people here would say the same: if all size 24s just
saw size 6 models, then I'm sure they would get annoyed too. I do sometimes.
I wish there was a program where you could just click in your measurements
and such and see how it would look, too. I don't think that people should
have to cover up everything in order to feel (or look) attractive. I
personally wear clothing that best flatters my body. If someone decides to
wear something more revealing though, that has to do with their own self
acceptance/self respect/self esteem etc etc etc, and is a personal choice.
And I've always found that when I look at someone that doesn't appeal to me
(eg, size 26 woman in a bikini, to me generally not all that appealing), I
just look the other way. I don't think that any of the models on that site
were really revealing, but again, that's just my personal opinion.
She
> doesn't think fat women should wear revealing clothing. Which I agree with
> her since it's not sexy. You can be fashionable but not have to show off
> everything you own.
What's sexy to you is not always sexy to everyone else. Eg, bbw porn: not
sexy at all to you (or me for that matter), however other people pay top
dollar for it. But I agree, you don't have to show off everything you own to
be fashionable or sexy - I certainly don't most of the time.
> I'm here because I've gotten called goth on many occasions (so I guess
it's
> true) and gothic girls seem to have some knowledge on period garb and wigs
> (I mainly posted asking about wigs). Black is fine to wear but the way
some
> of you wear it is pretty scary and makes me wonder about what happened to
> you all as children lol.
Yes, I agree. Some people do wear it in ways that make me think twice too
(but I find that with many groups, not just goth). Others wear these
elaborate outfits that just stun me to bits and make me wonder how anyone
thought that up. But that's a sweeping generalisation: we are not all like
that. I personally don't consider myself goth, but I do enjoy wearing gothic
clothing - *grin* Clothes don't make the person... at least not in all cases
;)
So the way you wear it makes me think you hate
> yourselves since you are purposely alienating yourselves from society.
Again, not all goths dress one way. That might be why there are so many
seeming sub categories to it - eg, romantic goth, cyber goth, spooky kid,
etc etc. Some people probably do purposely alienate themselve by the way
they try to dress, but by far not all of us.
> I read part of the bottom part, what I got from reading the beginning was
a
> lot of what you already said so I skipped it since I was tired. I replied
to
> people who weren't repeating themselves over and over again in a super
long
> paragraph. So I don't know this "truth" you speak of, but nothing is truth
> unless you have evidence to back it up.
I said that it might have a ring of truth, not that it was truth... slight
difference. And yeah, it was long, but I thought that perhaps I hadn't
explained it clearly enough before. I'm not going to dredge up a hell of a
lot of marketing theory and talk to the owner of the site in order to work
out exactly where they are coming from. It was a theory, one that is quite
plausable and backed up with a simple marketing strategy. When you
originally posted, you said that you wanted to see both, and then replied
later to ask why they showed mostly larger models and didn't have all
smaller ones (followed by 'why should a site should be targeted that way,
they should target skinnier people'), and I am trying to reply to that, all
'fat vs thin' aside. When given the extra information by Ice Princess as to
the way the site was targeted, I thought giving an oversimplified view of
the situation from a marketers point of view might help to see why they have
done that, but now it seems that you are more interested in saying that fat
people are not at all appealing to look at, and that sites just shouldn't do
that, without really desiring a real answers to the questions you have
posed.
Mostly everything that's said here
> is a matter of opinion, I haven't come across any truth on this thread.
Even
> I know what I'm saying is my opinion and not written in stone. And a lot
of
> what you said is opinion and not truth but may be truth in your world and
in
> your opinion and in your life. But not everyone's. Truth and fact apply to
> everyone's life.
Everything is opinion, and anything that is said in this world is probably
not absolute truth (absolute truth discussion aside for a later time and a
more intellectual debate). All through I think I've said 'this is probably
what they've done' and 'it is possible that they've done it this way' etc
etc, because I know what I've said is only one theory. I never said it was
written in stone, I said that it might have a ring of truth (as in sounds
like it could be true). There's a difference.
sanura (who now drops this thread.... *PLONK*)
Frances Kathleen Moffatt
> "Frances Kathleen Moffatt" <dv...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>> > Which is why I
>> > wouldn't buy their corsets because their models simply turned me away
>> > from it (death death death death).
>> Boy, are *you* on the wrong newsgroup.
> I'm glad you find death funny.
It's a coping mechanism. I'm glad I find death funny too, sometimes.
(You did notice you're on alt.*gothic*.fashion, right? Home of the morbid
aesthetic, the haunting evocation of our mortality?)
Torrain
Rozz
> Oh yeah, but English sizes are different than US sizes. Probably like
about
> a 10/12 in US.
>
> Isabella
UK sizes are about 2.5 more. I've got a few american clothes and this is how
it seems to work:
US 8 = UK10-12
US 10 = UK12-14
US 12 = UK14-16
etc etc
Rozz
Rozz
> A size 0 varies from store to store. Some are 24-25/34-25 but usually
less.
> All depends, thus why I vary between 4 sizes.
>
> Isabella.
Will you please stop top-posting?!
Rozz
>
> My mother doesn't disgust me. She wears proper clothing and doesn't walk
> around showing off her undergarments either. If fat is covered then I'm
> completely fine with it. It's just if I were fat and saying all this then
it
> seems people wouldn't have an issue with it so if I put what a fat person
> said then maybe you guys wouldn't have that big of an issue with it. She
> doesn't think fat women should wear revealing clothing. Which I agree with
> her since it's not sexy. You can be fashionable but not have to show off
> everything you own.
How about showing off everything you DON'T own......
> I'm here because I've gotten called goth on many occasions (so I guess
it's
> true) and gothic girls seem to have some knowledge on period garb and wigs
> (I mainly posted asking about wigs). Black is fine to wear but the way
some
> of you wear it is pretty scary and makes me wonder about what happened to
> you all as children lol. So the way you wear it makes me think you hate
> yourselves since you are purposely alienating yourselves from society.
That's complete rubbish - if people choose to ignore me because I happen
to look a little odd, I'd rather not be around them. Who wants to be around
someone that shallow?
Rozz
> not going to try and spell that!) was more attractive as a size 6 in
> Bridget Jones than she is as a size whatever "normally"?
>
> NightMist
She looks terrible now she's "back to normal", IMO. Just looks...... well,
scrawny. Like if you hugged her, you'd have to pull your arm out from
between her ribs.
Rozz
Rozz
"Mare" <lulu...@aol.commm> wrote in message
news:20040104163209...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> >I think part of the reason Americans wear larger sizes is that we're
getting
> >so
> >dang tall.
>
> Not all of us. :(
>
>
> Mare
>
Heh. At this rate it looks like I may make 6' (I'm female, btw). I've grown
another inch and a half this year, and my cousin (female) is 6'1''......
Hmm. I already can't buy trousers long enough.
Rozz
eating disorder. Of course there were several factors, but one of the main
ones in my anorexia (several years ago now) was that I was constantly
bombarded by the message that "thin is best"...... being a lot younger than
I am now I didn't have the sense to realise that I'm never going to be tiny
(my skeleton is probably about a UK12 on its own!) so I ended up dieting and
dieting until I ended up in hospital. Age 12, 3 stone underweight, given a
month to live..... that situation can, to quite a reasonable extent, be
blamed on the media.
Rozz
Rozz
> Torrid is so big due to the whole wave of this "non-conformist" bullshit.
> And also due to 2 out of 3 of those people are obviously overweight (as
2/3
> of America is). Just thought you should know.
Not everyone just jumped on the bandwagon. I don't like the idea of "goth in
a superstore", and probably most of this group doesn't.
> lot, but I don't want to order something from a company who I get the
> impression thinks fat is best because there is a chance they could just
not
> put care into making my corset because I'm of a smaller size.
Hello? Did you screw your head on this morning?!?! That's like saying I
would send someone a crap painting just because I didn't like the number on
their house address.
Rozz
"R. M." <Turtl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19969-3F...@storefull-3117.bay.webtv.net...
>
>
> Group: alt.gothic.fashion Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2004, 7:31pm (EST+5) From:
> nos...@nomail.com (L) stated
>
>
> "Good point Ronda. Fascinating what was found. Posts on
> alt.suicide.methods, alt.suicide.holiday, and whatddyaknow, a rather
> troll-like hit and run one liner on soc.support.fat-acceptance (duly
> cross posted to alt.support.big-folks)."
>
> What do previous posts in other groups have to do with anything? It
> doesn't take away from the validity of one person's opinion. If this
> person thinks fat people are loathsome and disgusting they are entitled
> to do so. No amount of group pile ons from people who have weight issues
> both mental and physical will change that. Psychoanalysis can work in
> the other direction as well. It's clear how peoplle in this group act
> when weight is mentioned most are nowhere near as comfortable as they
> CLAIM to be with being fat. How about some real truth?
>
> Scatter
>
It's the way it's phrased, mate.
unbroken
I was going by.
Isabella
Mare
Not anymore.
She's nothing but bones now.
unbroken
ones to target just fat people.
Anyone ever been there though? They got a lot of nice stuff and it does
annoy me sometimes that it's only 14+.
Isabella
"sanura" <sanura...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:btc2s9$1pj$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
unbroken
grow up little girl.
Isabella
And yes, people die in their 20's from obesity.
And guys who usually like fat women can't get anything else. (especially if
you're with an old guy and it's illegal, he can't even get someone his own
age, haha) From what I've noticed anyways, I've never seen a good looking
guy with a fat chick. (and I live in the capital of my state).
"Liminity" <myfebruary...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6gKb.10751$K41....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
unbroken
How much is a stone? (just wondering.)
I don't think women should be overly thin, I think they should be normal and
firm, average but not flabby, and definitely not over or underweight. I
understand eating disorders (which is why I stopped modeling) and I even had
my own but it call comes down to you eventually grow up and realize that not
everyone is meant to have a size 2 body. (I was a size 2 and thought I
looked like a size 14). But uh, if you have a larger bone structure it means
you can weigh more but look a lot thinner. The media takes it too far, but
they are starting to get slightly better. I mean, look at Christina
Auguleria (sp?), if she isn't chubby for Hollywood then I don't know who is.
(How did she gain all that weight anyways?). The media is pro-underweight
while it seems a lot of people on here are pro-overweight and it's just as
deadly and just as wrong. It sounds funny but it is possibly to eat yourself
to death. Oh well, what do I know? I have a sister who's a nurse and can
tell me all this but she's just dumb and fat people are perfectly healthy.
My doctor must be dumb too. Oh well.
Isabella
unbroken
pro-fat and they have this "better than thou" attitude because they are fat,
so do all of you. Thus why I'd think that way. Alls I know is that you fat
goths are worse than anorexic preps with the whole nose in the air thing.
Isabella