I'm wondering, considering the stress and in-breeding of the families
involved in the royalty business, if there are instances of suicide among
them? I am not aware of any, at least of any overt suicides--I'm assuming
there may be some 'hidden' suicides in deaths attributed to drug use or
alcohol abuse. Any ideas?

Charlene

I don't think inbreeding has anything to do with it, but I will attempt to
answer your question.

Some of the suicides in various royal families:

(1) The son of Prince Alfred, Duke of Saxe Coburg Gotha shot himself. As a
result of this tragedy, the SCG title later passed to Charles Eduard of Albany
(2) Crown Prince Rudolph of Austria-Hungary was involved in a murder-suicide
plot
(3) One of Queen Mary's Mecklenburg Strelitz cousins shot herself when she
wasn't allowed to marry the man she loved

I'm sure there are dozens more instances.

JAGutmaker

Well, the Crown Prince Dipendra of Nepal murder suicide was just last June.

I believe Princess Leila, (?) the late Shah of Irans daughter, committed
suicide in London last year.

Bless you, Charlene, for giving me something else aside from Harry's
adventures in Substance-land  (and whether or not Charles is being
too PC/lax/unsupportive/self-centered/ad nauseum, in response) to
read and think about.

Yes, there have been several Royal suicides; I presume you mean
"European Royals," as the Imperial Japanese historically viewed
suicide as an appropriate response to shame and/or dishonour, and
the Imperial Romans did likewise.

Here's a sampling of Royalty who have committed suicide (or have
been suspected to have committed suicide.)  It is by no means a
comprehensive list.  Many, as you will see, had problems with
alcohol and/or drugs.

Prince Joachim of Prussia  (1890 - 1920)
            The youngest of the six sons of Kaiser Wilhelm II (Willy)
            of Prussia and his Kaiserin, the former Princess Auguste
            Viktoria of Schleswig-Holstein (Dona) Joachim was
            considered whiny, weak and a "Mama's boy" by his older,
            bigger brothers.  He was said to have had a "depressive
            nature" and felt the loss of the Hohenzollern status keenly.
            Overwhelmed by an unhappy marriage (to Princess Marie
            Auguste of Anhalt) alcoholism and large gambling debts,
            he committed shot himself in the head.  He was twenty-nine.

Prince Franz Josef Wenzel of Liechtenstein (1962 - 1991)
            The youngest son of  Prince Franz Joseph II of Liechtenstein
            and Georgina of Wilczek.  A medical doctor, one of the
            semi-official versions of this Prince's death was he was
            "performing a medical experiment on himself."  Also, it
            was announced the death was "accidental."  At any rate,
            there were also rumours he had shot himself.  According
            to one account I read, both of his parents had recently
            died and he may have fallen into a depression over that,
            since the Liechtensteiners were known to be very close.
            There were even some who allegedly suspected the
            Prince had been gay, and had killed himself either because
            of that or because he had contracted HIV.  The late Prince
            had an uncle and a female cousin who were also rumoured
            to have committed suicide.  He was discovered dead in
            his bed and the Palace (at Vaduz) refused comment beyond
            releasing details of the funeral arrangements, ending with
            "and that is the end of the matter."

The Bourbons had a rash of suicides, often by gun.  Steven Lavallee
once punned "Bourbon and guns don't mix."

Prince Gaetano of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1846 - 1871)
            The "official" story was that this Prince "accidentally" shot
            himself because he suffered an epileptic seizure while he
            was cleaning a gun.  Uh huh.

Prince Luigi of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1838 - 1886)
            The oldest brother of the above.  There was an attempt
            at a cover-up, but that the Prince had hung himself was
            revealed.  Hard to "accidentally" hang one's self, unless
            it's in an act of auto-erotic asphyxiation, which is another
            story entirely and doesn't seem to apply in this case.
            He was married to the famous Elisabeth ("Sisi") of Austria's
            younger sister, Mathilde ("Spätz.")  Rumour had it that
            Luigi was so obsessed with Spätz that he hung himself,
            overwhelmed by his jealousy and obsession.  Like her sisters,
            Spätz's beauty attracted a lot of attention and admirers, though
            it does not appear that Spätz was as determinedly unfaithful
            (and unhappy) as her sisters Sisi and Maria Sophia, the
            former who encouraged admiration (if never indulged in an
            actual physical affair) and the latter who bore a extramarital
            child.  Spätz was considered an outrageous beauty; she was
            the one believed most to resemble Sisi.  In fact, she resembled
            Sisi so much so that after Sisi's murder, it was considered that
            Sisi's widower, Franz Josef of Austria, would marry the
            widowed Spätz.  (He never remarried.)  After Luigi's suicide,
            Spätz's beauty began to inspire horror:  it had driven a husband
            to madness and suicide.

Princess Giovanna of Bourbon-Parma (1916 - 1949)
            Suspected suicide by gun.  Princess Giovanna was a keen
            sportswoman much addicted to the hunt and an excellent
            shot.  Her death is a "suspected suicide" because why
            would a Princess so familiar with firearms be so careless
            as to accidentally be able to shoot herself?  Her family
            continues to deny hers was a suicide, asserting it was an
            accident.

Prince (Infante) Alfonso of  Borbón (1941 - 1956)
            The youngest son of Juan, Count of Barcelona, and María
            de las Mercedes, Princess of Bourbon-Sicily, and brother
            (and one time heir) of King Juan Carlos of Spain.  The
            story was put out that this young Prince accidentally shot
            himself while cleaning a gun, but it was later revealed that
            the future King (Juan Carlos) had evidently shot his
            younger brother during horseplay with a loaded gun.
            I don't believe suicide was suspected.  It was the "last
            straw" in the unhappy marriage of his parents, who
            separated (though never "officially") but did not divorce.

Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria (1858 - 1889)
            The only son of Franz Josef of Austria and Elisabeth (Sisi)
            the former Duchess in Bavaria.  The "official version" was
            that he shot himself in a murder-suicide pact with his
            mistress, Baroness Marie Vetsera, at the Imperial Hunting
            Lodge at Mayerling.   There were several attempts at
            "cover up," including that Marie had shot Rudolf (though
            it was easily seen that she had died several hours before)
            and that the Crown Prince suffered a fatal heart attack (this
            particular version was Sisi's idea.)  However, there is some
            evidence to suggest he was the victim of a political assassination
            staged to appear as a murder-suicide.

Prince Alfred of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1874-1899)
            The only son of Prince Alfred ("Affie") Duke of Edinburgh
            and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (son of Queen Victoria) and Grand
            Duchess Maria Alexandrovna of Russia (only daughter of Tsar
            Alexander II) brother to the famous Queen Marie ("Missy")
            of Romania and Grand Duchess Kyril ("Ducky") of Russia.
            Allegedly, the young Prince had been physically and emotionally
            (possibly even sexually) abused by tutors, and was considered
            "easily led" by relatives.  A tremendous disappointment to his
            parents (especially his exacting mother) Alfred got involved with
            several unsuitable women and contracted venereal disease.
            He gave his last mistress several pieces of heirloom jewellery
            without his parents' knowledge/permission, and, according to
            some sources, married her morganatically (and secretly.)  His
            parents were furious, had the marriage annulled, paid off the
            woman and reclaimed the jewels.  Depressed and ill, the
            Prince shot himself.  He did not die, and it was thought best
            to remove the Prince from Coburg as to not attract inconvenient
            questions during the celebrations of his parents' 25th wedding
            anniversary (23 January 1899.)  Though the doctors advised
            against it, the Prince was removed to Meran to recover, and
            it was put out that the Prince was in delicate health and the
            climate at Meran was better for his condition.  Not surprisingly,
            the move proved too much, and the Prince died on 6 February
            1899.  As with the death of Alfonso of  Borbón, it was the
            last straw in the long-unhappy and bitterly estranged marriage
            of the Duke and Duchess.  The Duke blamed his wife for
            their son's death.  His incipient alcoholism was blamed on this
            incident, though the Duke was every bit of a wastrel as had
            been his son.  Missy and Ducky were always deliberately
            vague about their brother's death, though Missy commented
            that she had "never seen [her] mother so weep."

Valerie Marie, Duchess of Arenberg  (1900 - 1953)
            The illegitimate daughter of Prince Albert of Schleswig-Holstein
            (son of Prince and Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein;
            Princess Christian was born Princess Helena "Lenchen" of
            England, the daughter of Queen Victoria) and a mother whose
            name was never known but Albert asserted was "of high
            birth."  Valerie Marie was sent away and raised by a Jewish
            family named Schwalb, which later caused problems for
            Valerie Marie under the Third Reich.  Her paternal aunts
            (Princesses Helena Victoria and Marie Louise vouched that
            their niece was the son of their brother, that he acknowledged
            her 10 days before his death in 1931 and that she had no
            Jewish blood.)  Valerie Marie's first marriage had ended in
            divorce, but she's said
...

read more »

You guys seem to be forgetting someone.... Diana, Princess of Wales
"attempted" suicide numerous times. More like cries for help from a deranged
and unstable woman........

1.) sliting her wrists with an orange peeler

2.) throwing herself down the stairs at Sandringham House in Norlfolk

3.) drug overdose

"C.E. Metz-Longinette-Gahring" <walkuere@hanging_out_in_Walhalla.de> wrote
in message news:OMQUpDToBHA.1712@cpimsnntpa02...

...

read more »

I take the last one back... she did not actually Swallow all of the
pills...... she had spit them out before it was too late........

"Nathan P. Graf" <ng...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:u4k8ddcq13gofd@corp.supernews.com...

...

read more »

"Nathan P. Graf" <ng...@citlink.net> wrote in message

You guys seem to be forgetting someone.... Diana, Princess of Wales
"attempted" suicide numerous times. More like cries for help from a deranged
and unstable woman........

1.) sliting her wrists with an orange peeler

2.) throwing herself down the stairs at Sandringham House in Norlfolk

3.) drug overdose

I take the last one back... she did not actually Swallow all of the
pills...... she had spit them out before it was too late........

=======================

And she told you this, did she?

Her suicide attempts are common knowledge. Diana herself admitted it in her
panorama interview and in her book by Andrew Morton that later we found out
she was behind it all

news:20020119220450.27866.00001293@mb-ch.aol.com...

Candace wonderfully wrote (and I heavily snipped):

One addition to Candace's list might be Princess Louise of Denmark, daughter of
King Frederick VIII and Louise of Sweden, also making her the sister of Haakon
VII of Norway and Christian X of Denmark.  

Louise (1875 - 1906) was evidently unhappily married to Frederick of
Schaumburg-Lippe (1896) and committed suicide by drowning herself in the lake
at Nachod Castle in Bohemia.

Craig
Houston, TX

What you clearly don't understand is that suicidal *feelings* and suicidal
*gestures* are not suicide attempts.

news:20020119223830.08548.00004098@mb-ch.aol.com...

They're often referred to as "cries for help" or ploys to get attention,
depending on how you feel about the person involved!  :-)

By the way, I'm referring to suicidal gestures here, not suicide attempts.
Those should always be taken seriously.

Tina

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Yes indeed.

Your knowledge is amazing, Candace!  I love reading your posts and your
articles. I always wind up learning something I had never even thought to
wonder about.

Dana

Well, Cleopatra would certainly qualify as someone royal who was
inbred and also committed suicide, but I don't know that there was a
causal connection between the two.

In article <OMQUpDToBHA.1712@cpimsnntpa02>,
walkuere@hanging_out_in_Walhalla.de says...
 >
 > I'm wondering, considering the stress and in-breeding of the families
 > involved in the royalty business, if there are instances of suicide among
 > them? I am not aware of any, at least of any overt suicides--I'm assuming
 > there may be some 'hidden' suicides in deaths attributed to drug use or
 > alcohol abuse. Any ideas?

 Bless you, Charlene, for giving me something else aside from Harry's
 adventures in Substance-land  (and whether or not Charles is being
 too PC/lax/unsupportive/self-centered/ad nauseum, in response) to
 read and think about.

 Yes, there have been several Royal suicides; I presume you mean
 "European Royals," as the Imperial Japanese historically viewed
 suicide as an appropriate response to shame and/or dishonour, and
 the Imperial Romans did likewise.

 Here's a sampling of Royalty who have committed suicide (or have
 been suspected to have committed suicide.)  It is by no means a
 comprehensive list.  Many, as you will see, had problems with
 alcohol and/or drugs.

 Prince Joachim of Prussia  (1890 - 1920)
             The youngest of the six sons of Kaiser Wilhelm II (Willy)
             of Prussia and his Kaiserin, the former Princess Auguste
             Viktoria of Schleswig-Holstein (Dona) Joachim was
             considered whiny, weak and a "Mama's boy" by his older,
             bigger brothers.  He was said to have had a "depressive
             nature" and felt the loss of the Hohenzollern status keenly.
             Overwhelmed by an unhappy marriage (to Princess Marie
             Auguste of Anhalt) alcoholism and large gambling debts,
             he committed shot himself in the head.  He was twenty-nine.

 Prince Franz Josef Wenzel of Liechtenstein (1962 - 1991)
             The youngest son of  Prince Franz Joseph II of Liechtenstein
             and Georgina of Wilczek.  A medical doctor, one of the
             semi-official versions of this Prince's death was he was
             "performing a medical experiment on himself."  Also, it
             was announced the death was "accidental."  At any rate,
             there were also rumours he had shot himself.  According
             to one account I read, both of his parents had recently
             died and he may have fallen into a depression over that,
             since the Liechtensteiners were known to be very close.
             There were even some who allegedly suspected the
             Prince had been gay, and had killed himself either because
             of that or because he had contracted HIV.  The late Prince
             had an uncle and a female cousin who were also rumoured
             to have committed suicide.  He was discovered dead in
             his bed and the Palace (at Vaduz) refused comment beyond
             releasing details of the funeral arrangements, ending with
             "and that is the end of the matter."

 The Bourbons had a rash of suicides, often by gun.  Steven Lavallee
 once punned "Bourbon and guns don't mix."

 Prince Gaetano of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1846 - 1871)
             The "official" story was that this Prince "accidentally" shot
             himself because he suffered an epileptic seizure while he
             was cleaning a gun.  Uh huh.

 Prince Luigi of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1838 - 1886)
             The oldest brother of the above.  There was an attempt
             at a cover-up, but that the Prince had hung himself was
             revealed.  Hard to "accidentally" hang one's self, unless
             it's in an act of auto-erotic asphyxiation, which is another
             story entirely and doesn't seem to apply in this case.
             He was married to the famous Elisabeth ("Sisi") of Austria's
             younger sister, Mathilde ("Spätz.")  Rumour had it that
             Luigi was so obsessed with Spätz that he hung himself,
             overwhelmed by his jealousy and obsession.  Like her sisters,
             Spätz's beauty attracted a lot of attention and admirers, though
             it does not appear that Spätz was as determinedly unfaithful
             (and unhappy) as her sisters Sisi and Maria Sophia, the
             former who encouraged admiration (if never indulged in an
             actual physical affair) and the latter who bore a extramarital
             child.  Spätz was considered an outrageous beauty; she was
             the one believed most to resemble Sisi.  In fact, she resembled
             Sisi so much so that after Sisi's murder, it was considered that
             Sisi's widower, Franz Josef of Austria, would marry the
             widowed Spätz.  (He never remarried.)  After Luigi's suicide,
             Spätz's beauty began to inspire horror:  it had driven a husband
             to madness and suicide.

 Princess Giovanna of Bourbon-Parma (1916 - 1949)
             Suspected suicide by gun.  Princess Giovanna was a keen
             sportswoman much addicted to the hunt and an excellent
             shot.  Her death is a "suspected suicide" because why
             would a Princess so familiar with firearms be so careless
             as to accidentally be able to shoot herself?  Her family
             continues to deny hers was a suicide, asserting it was an
             accident.

 Prince (Infante) Alfonso of  Borbón (1941 - 1956)
             The youngest son of Juan, Count of Barcelona, and María
             de las Mercedes, Princess of Bourbon-Sicily, and brother
             (and one time heir) of King Juan Carlos of Spain.  The
             story was put out that this young Prince accidentally shot
             himself while cleaning a gun, but it was later revealed that
             the future King (Juan Carlos) had evidently shot his
             younger brother during horseplay with a loaded gun.
             I don't believe suicide was suspected.  It was the "last
             straw" in the unhappy marriage of his parents, who
             separated (though never "officially") but did not divorce.

 Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria (1858 - 1889)
             The only son of Franz Josef of Austria and Elisabeth (Sisi)
             the former Duchess in Bavaria.  The "official version" was
             that he shot himself in a murder-suicide pact with his
             mistress, Baroness Marie Vetsera, at the Imperial Hunting
             Lodge at Mayerling.   There were several attempts at
             "cover up," including that Marie had shot Rudolf (though
             it was easily seen that she had died several hours before)
             and that the Crown Prince suffered a fatal heart attack (this
             particular version was Sisi's idea.)  However, there is some
             evidence to suggest he was the victim of a political assassination
             staged to appear as a murder-suicide.

 Prince Alfred of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1874-1899)
             The only son of Prince Alfred ("Affie") Duke of Edinburgh
             and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (son of Queen Victoria) and Grand
             Duchess Maria Alexandrovna of Russia (only daughter of Tsar
             Alexander II) brother to the famous Queen Marie ("Missy")
             of Romania and Grand Duchess Kyril ("Ducky") of Russia.
             Allegedly, the young Prince had been physically and emotionally
             (possibly even sexually) abused by tutors, and was considered
             "easily led" by relatives.  A tremendous disappointment to his
             parents (especially his exacting mother) Alfred got involved with
             several unsuitable women and contracted venereal disease.
             He gave his last mistress several pieces of heirloom jewellery
             without his parents' knowledge/permission, and, according to
             some sources, married her morganatically (and secretly.)  His
             parents were furious, had the marriage annulled, paid off the
             woman and reclaimed the jewels.  Depressed and ill, the
             Prince shot himself.  He did not die, and it was thought best
             to remove the Prince from Coburg as to not attract inconvenient
             questions during the celebrations of his parents' 25th wedding
             anniversary (23 January 1899.)  Though the doctors advised
             against it, the Prince was removed to Meran to recover, and
             it was put out that the Prince was in delicate health and the
             climate at Meran was better for his condition.  Not surprisingly,
             the move proved too much, and the Prince died on 6 February
             1899.  As with the death of Alfonso of  Borbón, it was the
             last straw in the long-unhappy and bitterly estranged marriage
             of the Duke and Duchess.  The Duke blamed his wife for
             their son's death.  His incipient alcoholism was blamed on this
             incident, though the Duke was every bit of a wastrel as had
             been his son.  Missy and Ducky were always deliberately
             vague about their brother's death, though Missy commented
             that she had "never seen [her] mother so weep."

 Valerie Marie, Duchess of Arenberg  (1900 - 1953)
             The illegitimate daughter of Prince Albert of Schleswig-Holstein
             (son of Prince and Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein;
             Princess Christian was born Princess Helena "Lenchen" of
             England, the daughter of Queen Victoria) and a mother whose
             name was never known but Albert asserted was "of high
             birth."  Valerie Marie was sent away and raised by a Jewish
             family named Schwalb, which later caused problems for
             Valerie Marie under the Third Reich.  Her paternal aunts
             (Princesses Helena Victoria and Marie Louise vouched that
...

read more »

Candace, you might know the answer to this one (or at least have the
sources to find out) - I asked on atr once but no-one seemed to know:
-
I think I've read (I don't know where) that the death of Vicky's
daughter 'Moretta' of Prussia was believed by many to be suicide - I
suppose since it came hard of the heels of her bankruptcy and her
abandonment by her violent second husband. Am I correct (either about
the cause of death or about the fact that it was believed by some to
be the cause of death)?
Her whole life story was a sad and interesting one, of course, if you
are tempted to write anything...:-)
Janet

While certainly inbred and a suicide, I don't think there was any
connection.  Cleopatra (wotta broad ;) had no desire to be
paraded through Rome in chains in a cage (which was entirely
possible) as the Captive Queen.

She cast her lot with Marc Antony and lost at the naval Battle of
Actium.  Told Antony was dead, Cleopatra had no desire to
surrender herself to the tender mercies of Octavian (the future
Emperor Augustus) who had no patience with the beguiling Queen,
not the least of which because he felt Cleopatra had wooed
Antony away from Octavian's sister Octavia and given him
Imperial pretensions.  Octavian had hoped to prevent Cleopatra's
suicide (for he pretty much figured that would be her answer) but
she out-witted him, having an asp smuggled in in a basket of figs.
Learning of her suicide, the very much alive though deeply in
trouble Antony killed himself.

Cleopatra was one of the original "red hot Mamas" and what she
lacked in physical beauty she made up for in spades with intelligence
and charm.  Her affairs with Julius Caesar and Marc Antony made
her the scandal of the Ancient World, not that that particularly
bothered her much.

Her suicide was not the product of mental instability, but a political
maneuver of last resort.  She chose the "Masada Answer":  that she
would rather die on her feet, by her own hand and as a Queen, than
live on her knees, a captive Roman prisoner, at the mercy of her
keepers.

~ C.

--
--
- CEM-L-G

GOD BLESS AMERICA and ALL those who PROTECT and DEFEND her!

That's what I had always thought too. But there are of course some who
believe she was upset that Marc Antony wasn't spending enough time
with Caesarion. And then her Egyptian boyfriend died in a terrible
chariot accident... ;-)

One addition to Candace's list might be Princess Louise of Denmark, daughter of
King Frederick VIII and Louise of Sweden, also making her the sister of Haakon
VII of Norway and Christian X of Denmark.  

Louise (1875 - 1906) was evidently unhappily married to Frederick of
Schaumburg-Lippe (1896) and committed suicide by drowning herself in the lake
at Nachod Castle in Bohemia.

Craig
Houston, TX

Poor Louise at least managed to go out in a very Pre-Raphaelite/
turn-of-the-century way. Prince Alfred went out with a bang
(literally) also at the turn of the century...

Alfred Alexander William Ernest of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha
(aka "Young Alfred"), only son of Queen Victoria's second
son Prince Alfred and Tsar Alexander II's only daughter
Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna of Russia was born in
Buckingham Palace on 15 October 1874. Educated in
Germany, he became a junior officer in Coburg, where his
chief hobbies were drinking and womanising. He then
concluded a morganatic marriage with an Irish commoner.
When his mother found out, she demanded that the marriage
be annulled (even though the girl was already pregnant).
Having already contracted syphilis, young Alfred shot himself
and died a week later at the age of twenty-five in 1899.

But spare a thought for the unhappy who couldn't go out
in a spectacular way and only faded away. Like poor
Sophia Dorothea (1666-1726), wife of King George I,
who accused her of infidelity and imprisoned her for 32 years.
She was married, for dynastic reasons, to her cousin
George Louis in 1682. The union was an unhappy one. Her
mother-in-law, the electress Sophia, hated her, and this feeling
was soon shared by the prince himself. Under these circumstances
Sophia Dorothea made the acquaintance of Count Philipp
Christoph von Königsmark, who assisted her in one or two futile
attempts to escape from Hanover and who was regarded as her
lover. In 1694 the Count was assassinated, and the Princess
was divorced and imprisoned in the castle of Ahlden, remaining
in captivity until her death.