Expert says Floyd Landis's results "don't add up"
Paris Hilton
By LINDSEY TANNER
The Associated Press
Tour De France champion Floyd Landis' results on a urine test that spots
elevated levels of performance-enhancing testosterone are a mystery and
"don't add up," a leading doping expert said Thursday.
Landis' team revealed Thursday that his urine sample last week showed "an
unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone."
Testosterone creams, pills and injections can build muscle and strength and
improve recovery time after exertion when used over a period of several
weeks, according to Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping
Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine.
But if Landis had been a user, earlier urine tests during the Tour would
have been affected, too, Wadler said. Landis' first reported abnormal result
was last Thursday, after his amazing come-from-behind performance in Stage
17 of the race.
One-time use of steroids could result in an abnormal test, but it would have
no effect on performance and could not account for Landis' astounding feat
Thursday, "so something's missing here," Wadler said. "It just doesn't add
up."
The test detects both testosterone and a related steroid called
epitestosterone, which is not performance-enhancing. Both are produced by
the body and are also made in synthetic form.
The usual ratio for both substances is about 1:1 or 2:1, Wadler said.
Suspicions for improper steroid use arise when the ratio climbs above 4
parts testosterone over 1 part epitestosterone, Wadler said. Officials have
not said what ratio Landis' test showed.
Athletes who use performance-enhancing anabolic steroids often also take
synthetic epitestosterone to equalize the ratio, said Charles Yesalis, a
retired Pennsylvania State University professor and doping expert.
There is no medical use for synthetic epitestosterone; it is used "to cheat
drug tests," Yesalis said.
Some men have naturally occurring high levels of testosterone and/or
epitestosterone, but a sophisticated lab test called a carbon isotope ratio
test is often used to detect synthetic forms.
Alcohol can influence testosterone-epitestosterone levels, but more often in
women than in men and it would be unlikely to have a huge effect, Wadler
said.
Landis said in an interview during the Tour de France that he has had
injections of cortisone, a medically used steroid drug to treat pain from a
degenerating arthritic hip, but doctors said that would not affect his test
results.
Corticosteroids "have zero impact" on the testosterone-epitestosterone test,
Wadler said.
The typical procedure for urine-testing of athletes involves taking two
samples at the same time and bottling them separately. The "A" sample is
tested first, and if it is normal the "B" sample is discarded.
MMan
Paris Hilton wrote:
> Expert says Landis' results "don't add up"
Another article saying the results don't make sense:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0607310138jul31,1,6261272.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
Jonathan v.d. Sluis
news:1154423957.1...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
Great. You drop the word 'French' and some half-truths about 'European
justice' a few times, and presto, Landis is innocent.
Ernst Noch
I was always suspicious of the French. I think what we are seeing here
with this obviously, but carefully, fabricated "proofs" against this
fellow American, is the first step to French world domination. Connect
the dots: Zidane, the sabotage (sic!) of the European Constitution, now
this.
You heard it here first.
Donald Munro
> I was always suspicious of the French. I think what we are seeing here
> with this obviously, but carefully, fabricated "proofs" against this
> fellow American, is the first step to French world domination. Connect
> the dots: Zidane, the sabotage (sic!) of the European Constitution, now
> this.
The next stage is to smuggle andoulette and rotten camembert into the US.
benjo maso
"MMan" <mma...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1154423957.1...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
A clue of the Landis affair, might be the case Theunisse in 1990. Theunisse
tested positive after la FlPche Wallone: his T/E ratio was far above the 6:1
allowed in those days. Of course, Theunisse protested his innocence and
claimed to have a unusually high T/E ratio, which was fluctuating in a
exceptionally way. Almost nobody believed him, but he was probably right -
which by the way didn't mean he was innocent. About a year later a Belgian
journalist let me listen to a tape recording of a interview with one of the
soigneurs of PDM (the team of Theunisse). It was a very interesting story.
The politics of PDM in these days was: we're allowed to give our riders as
much testosterone as long as their T/E ratio doesn't exceed the 6:1 ratio.
Of course, they tested the team regularly to keep from unexpected surprises.
Consequently, it was a great surprise that Theunisse had already once tested
positive on testosterone. They assumed they must have made a mistake, but
they didn't want to take any risk. So when Theunisse in 1990 believed to be
capable to win the FlPche Wallone, three days before the race the whole team
was tested by the team doctor after a long training ride in the Ardennes.
Theunisse's T/E ratio was below the 6:1, so they had nothing to fear,
especially because of course they were not so stupid to take a new dose
testosterone before the race. And yet, after the FlPche Wallone (I think he
finished third) Theunisse tested positive. No wonder he felt cheated,
proclaimed his innocence and suggested he must be suffering from a
congenital physical abnormality. The explanation (which was corfirmed by a
specialist I interviewed later) is rather simple. Under normal conditions it
certainly would have been a freak result, but pro's are riding in
exceptional conditions in which the body is sometimes reacting
exceptionally, especially because it is already functioning in a unusual
way, because riders are usually taking several different products which
might have strong effects (that's the intention anyhow).
Of course it's pure speculation, but what could have happened is that Landis
had taken the standard set of products: steroids, hgh, epo, testosterone,
etc., and in such quantities that he seemed to have nothing to fear.
However, under the exceptional conditions - exceptionally hard mountain
stages, the heat, dehydration, etc.- his body might have reacted in the same
unexpected way as Theunisse's 16 years before.
Benjo
Montesquiou
"Ernst Noch" <en...@gmx.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
4j95j3F...@individual.net...
Yes, we are so bad !!!
And we eat a baby every morning, for the Breakfast
Montesquiou
"benjo maso" <benjo...@chello.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
eanpuv$m83$1...@inews.gazeta.pl...
Benjo,
I heard some "rumor" on a Gerone (Spain) connexion.....
I can even say that it came from Jean Paul Brouchon (Sp?) that you know I am
sure.
My impression is that we will have a GREAT surprise in the next few days.
The Spain-Germany-Italy connexion began to be disclosed by El Pais.
Do you know something you can tell us ?
RonSonic
As sensible an explanation as any we've heard.
Landis's trip through the Alps was extraordinary in many ways and that
combination of intense effort and dehydration on one day followed by an insane
effort fully, fully saturated is not one that is generally tested in science.
Ron
Dumbass
Assuming all the reports about the A sample is true, Benjo's
explanation makes sense. There is a good bit of doping below the
limits among most of the older riders according to the book "Breaking
the Chain". Landis just had a flukey TE ratio followed by a daming
isotope ratio test. If they used isotope test on every rider, then
very few would pass. The white jersey winner might be the yellow
jersey winner, since the younger riders tend not use doping, according
to "Breaking the Chain".
benjo maso
<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:44cf7476$0$870$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could surprise
us?
Benjo
Curtis L. Russell
wrote:
>I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could surprise
>us?
>
>Benjo
They reviewed the films and Pereira was riding with motor assist.
Damned miniaturization. They're trying to find out if it is actually a
violation of the rules.
12 miles without pedaling - uphill - should have given it away, as
well as the small Formula One style gas cap on his down tube. It also
answers speculation on what the read-out shown on tv labeled 'kpg'
really was.
UCI's first response was a press release that said that they are now
reviewing the films for Armstrong in his six or seven victories to see
if he was also assisted.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
benjo maso
"Dumbass" <tada...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154449324....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Does Willy Voet say that tounger riders tend not to use doping? I don't
remember it. Anyhow, according to Erwann Mentheour (who published his book
about the same yaer as Willy Voet), the use of doping is already wide spread
among juniors. Perhaps boys are aging fast when they begin to race ...
Benjo
benjo maso
"RonSonic" <rons...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:u4vuc21o941rjclaq...@4ax.com...
Exactly. That's no doubt the reason why it happened already several times
that a rider tested positive, in spite of follwing the instructions of his
doctor as meticulously as possible.
Benjo
Benjo
Montesquiou
Of course
Au point oů nous en sommes... plus rien ;)
But the focus is on the Gerone-connexion...
>
> Benjo
>
SocSecTr...@earthlink.net
Rotten Camembert is the best kind, when it's "a bit runny".
benjo maso
"Curtis L. Russell" <cur...@md-bicycling.org> wrote in message
news:6cfvc25807ic326s5...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:30:40 +0200, "benjo maso" <benjo...@chello.nl>
> wrote:
>
>>I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could surprise
>>us?
>>
>>Benjo
>
> They reviewed the films and Pereira was riding with motor assist.
> Damned miniaturization. They're trying to find out if it is actually a
> violation of the rules.
That should be surprising? They did it already in the Tour of 1904.
> 12 miles without pedaling - uphill - should have given it away, as
> well as the small Formula One style gas cap on his down tube. It also
> answers speculation on what the read-out shown on tv labeled 'kpg'
> really was.
Nothing new. They already used that trick in a Dutch comic strip about the
Tour.
> UCI's first response was a press release that said that they are now
> reviewing the films for Armstrong in his six or seven victories to see
> if he was also assisted.
And Armstrong didn't succeed to wriggle out of that accusation? Now I'm
surprised!
Benjo
benjo maso
<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:44cfc015$0$867$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around, although
the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?
Benjo
William Asher
<snip>
>
> UCI's first response was a press release that said that they are now
> reviewing the films for Armstrong in his six or seven victories to see
> if he was also assisted.
>
The UCI is now reporting that they can find no photographic or video
evidence that Armstrong rode any of the stages in its entirety in any of
the seven years he allegedly won.
--
Bill Asher
Stu Fleming
> You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around, although
> the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?
Cowboy?
benjo maso
"Stu Fleming" <ste...@wic.co.nz> wrote in message
news:44cfc9b4$1...@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
Well, there is well known rider often called "a cowboy" by his colleagues,
but it is not Armstrong.
Benjo
Montesquiou
You said it, I did not ; )
Montesquiou
<Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
44cfcd79$0$1032$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
>>> But the focus is on the Gerone-connexion...
>>
>>
>> You mean that place where Michele Ferrari was still hanging around,
>> although the most famous resident of the city had broken up with him?
>>
>> Benjo
>>
>
> You said it, I did not ; )
>
Ok, sorry.
You know much more than we know.
You have your name - and not a nickname - on this forum.
We have to respect it.
Of course as Brouchon (sp?) said once : The Gerone connexion.
photos...@gmail.com
So the real question to ask Floyd (and his team) is: "Did you undergo
any blood and urine tests of your own in the days leading up to stage
17?". If "yes" then "Why do you undergo these tests when nothing is
wrong with you?"
RonSonic
Magenta monkeys flying out of Dick Pound's butt?
Ron
Donald Munro
>>I don't know anything about it. But a GREAT surprise? What could surprise
>>us?
RonSonic wrote:
> Magenta monkeys flying out of Dick Pound's butt?
What would T-Mobile be doing in Pound's butt ?
tada...@yahoo.com
Phonak team management does testing on their own, btw, and have been
know to kick people off the team based on these test. But I doubt they
did it in the middle of the race.
Stu Fleming
> Phonak team management does testing on their own, btw, and have been
> know to kick people off the team based on these test. But I doubt they
> did it in the middle of the race.
>
I would be very surprised if the team medical staff on Phonak had not
done any physiological testing (including bloods) on the rest day.