Final moments Texas murdered child
PUSSSYKATT
------------------------------------
In this November 2000 photo portrait, a seemingly content Andrea Yates poses
with husband Russell and sons (left to right) Noah, Paul, Luke and John. She
now stands accused of killing her sons and 6-month-old daughter, Mary.
Reuters photo:http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/27943.htm
Horrifying new details of the deaths of five Texas kids drowned by their mom
emerged yesterday - as their grief-stricken dad stunned the nation by declaring
his undying love for his wife.
The Houston Chronicle, quoting an unidentified investigator, said Andrea Yates
told cops that her oldest son, Noah, 7, walked into the bathroom as she drowned
his baby sister, 6-month-old Mary.
"What's wrong with Mary," the little boy asked - then bolted from the room.
His mom chased him through the house and dragged him to the bathtub, where he
shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
In an extraordinary news conference, Russell Yates, the NASA computer scientist
who raced home from work to find his life in ruins, stood in front of his
Houston home yesterday, gripped a portrait of his wife and children and spoke
stoically of forgiveness.
"You know, Andrea, if you see this, I love you," he told his imprisoned wife,
who is due in court today on a charge of capital murder.
"I want to help her through this. I want to show her that I love her, support
her, and be there for her.
"It's hard because on one hand I know she killed our children, but on the other
I know that the woman here is not the woman who killed my children . . . She
wasn't in the right frame of mind."
Andrea Yates, 36, drowned Noah, Mary, John, 5, Paul, 3 and Luke, 2 - before
calling police and her husband to their tidy brick home Wednesday morning,
authorities said.
Fear gripped her husband as he raced home from the nearby Johnson Space Center
after a chilling phone conversation.
"She said, ‘I need you to come home.' I said, ‘Is anyone hurt?' She said,
‘Yes.' And I said: ‘Who?' And she said: ‘All of them.' My heart just
sank."
The mom is being held under suicide watch.
Family members say the drownings were the terrible climax to years of post
partum depression brought on by the birth of her fourth child. They will argue
she be spared the death penalty.
Standing on his front lawn, in front of a tree decorated with flowers and a
giant teddy bear, Yates maintained his wife loved her children.
"She is a kind and gentle person. What you saw yesterday, that's not her," he
said, before disappearing inside the house to plan his children's funerals.
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Marianna Trench
>The Houston Chronicle, quoting an unidentified investigator, said Andrea
>Yates
>told cops that her oldest son, Noah, 7, walked into the bathroom as she
>drowned
>his baby sister, 6-month-old Mary.
>
>"What's wrong with Mary," the little boy asked - then bolted from the room.
>
>His mom chased him through the house and dragged him to the bathtub, where he
>shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
>
>In an extraordinary news conference, Russell Yates, the NASA computer
>scientist
>who raced home from work to find his life in ruins, stood in front of his
>Houston home yesterday, gripped a portrait of his wife and children and spoke
>stoically of forgiveness.
>
>"You know, Andrea, if you see this, I love you," he told his imprisoned wife,
>who is due in court today on a charge of capital murder.
>
>"I want to help her through this. I want to show her that I love her, support
>her, and be there for her.
>
>"It's hard because on one hand I know she killed our children, but on the
>other
>I know that the woman here is not the woman who killed my children . . . She
>wasn't in the right frame of mind."
>
This woman methodically murdered FIVE children- and has expressed no remorse-
and he still loves her? He's got a screw loose too, to say the least.
That poor, poor 7-year old...to know what happened to his siblings and then
realize what was coming for him. How horrible to be snuffed by your own mom.
I'm not buying the depression excuse here. She's either psychotic, which isn't
an excuse, or just cold blooded.
Marianna
*****************************
I live in my own little world, but it's ok; they know me here.
Kristina
wrote:
>By JOHN LEHMANN
>The Houston Chronicle, quoting an unidentified investigator, said Andrea Yates
>told cops that her oldest son, Noah, 7, walked into the bathroom as she drowned
>his baby sister, 6-month-old Mary.
>
>"What's wrong with Mary," the little boy asked - then bolted from the room.
>
>His mom chased him through the house and dragged him to the bathtub, where he
>shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
Fucking psychotic bitch. Boiling her in hot oil would be too good for
her.
Kristina
I Am The DJ
>he
>>shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
Oh. Oh. Oh.
<hand over mouth>
Going to squeeze my kids now. :(
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Common sense is the most widely shared commodity in the world, for every man is
convinced he is well supplied with it. -- Descartes
Brian Christopher
I agree 100%. I am tired of the "world" and "media" using the exuse of
"mental illness." You still KNOW what you did. I mean, she killed 5
kids. She had plenty of time to think about what she was doing.
From a Christian standpoint, she gave in to the devil.
Top Sirloin
>This woman methodically murdered FIVE children- and has expressed no remorse-
>and he still loves her? He's got a screw loose too, to say the least.
He's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to be
mentally unstable.
>I'm not buying the depression excuse here. She's either psychotic, which isn't
>an excuse, or just cold blooded.
I'm not buying it either but she'll probably end up with 10 years probation and
therapy.
-Scott Johnson
"There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than
to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go
to watch their school play basketball every Saturday
and regard that as their week's exercise."
- John F. Kennedy, 1962
jamiekate
my heart stopped.my daughter is with my mom cause im sick but ive been crying over
her photos all day...
jamie
jamiekate
THe's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to be
> mentally unstable.
>
AMEN.they should have taken precautions til she was better.
Maggie
>
>THe's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to be
>
>> mentally unstable.
>>
>
>AMEN.they should have taken precautions til she was better.
>
***She *was* better you idiots.
Maggie
"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."
- Tom Clancy
Bird Lady
maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC says...
> >
> >
> >THe's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to be
> >
> >> mentally unstable.
> >>
> >
> >AMEN.they should have taken precautions til she was better.
> >
>
> ***She *was* better you idiots.
>
> Maggie
How does one get better from suicidal/depressive/psychotic
behavior in under 9 months? Her suicide attempt was followed
pretty quickly by another pregnancy.
In this case, I think a knowledgeable person would have erred
on the side of caution and not pressed anymore kids on this lady.
Also, he might have seen some value in getting the kids out of
the house (to school) so their mom could get some regular
treatment and some outside support for her illness.
bel
E Varden
>
> By JOHN LEHMANN
>
>
> The mom is being held under suicide watch.
>
Puh-leeze! If I were the "watcher" I'd be taking several
toilet-breaks. Lengthy ones.
Pe
.. Amy ..
> shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
And this will win her a ticket to the death chamber, I hope. Monstrous.
Not that it will influence the prosecutor's decision to seek the death penalty, but
CourtTV has been running an online survey all day. The question was: "Should she
get the death penalty?"
This morning, only 10% said "yes". But as her confession has been reported and
discussed that she chased her son through the house... it's jumped to 65%.
--Amy
Sophie
If only she had felt suicidal before she felt homicidal.
--
Sophie
Jlaszcsc222
i can't imagine the terror that child felt....
j.
"Government can't solve the problem. Government is the problem."
- Ronald Reagan
Sunny
wrote:
>He's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to be
>mentally unstable.
I noticed that all of the kids had names from the Bible, so I was
wondering if maybe the parents are Catholic or something... If that
was the case then birth control would be against their religion.
Maggie
>> By JOHN LEHMANN
>>
>>
>>> The mom is being held under suicide watch.
>
>
>>Puh-leeze! If I were the "watcher" I'd be taking several
>>toilet-breaks. Lengthy ones.
>>Pe
>
>If only she had felt suicidal before she felt homicidal.
***Yep.
Maggie
DepressdGrl
Greek tragedy to me. The guy is probably just a good man, in general,
an understanding loving kind man. Poor guy to have a wife like that!
Probably the family members of the guy knew she was a psychotic bitch
way long time ago but threw their hands up "because he loves her" and
knew they couldn't do anything about it. We've all seen relationships
like this...from the outside we can see that one of the people in the
relationship has screws loose, and the other is a calm, nice loving
person.
Jennifer Lyon
----------
In article <3b33aa82...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
mas...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Sunny) wrote:
It's a sin to use birth control, but it's OK to kill your kids?
Bird Lady
jewishpun...@my-deja.com says...
> Was it Medusa who killed her kids in Greek myths? This is a like a
> Greek tragedy to me.
Not quite, MEDEA (Medusa had the snakes writhing out of her
head) killed her kids because her husband, Jason, disavowed their
marriage and children. He was ready to marry another (whom Medea
killed with a poison cloak) and make his new kids his rightful
heirs. Medea killed her children to get back at Jason, but also
to prevent the royal court from taking them and publicly
murdering them.
The guy is probably just a good man, in general,
> an understanding loving kind man. Poor guy to have a wife like that!
> Probably the family members of the guy knew she was a psychotic bitch
> way long time ago but threw their hands up "because he loves her" and
> knew they couldn't do anything about it. We've all seen relationships
> like this...from the outside we can see that one of the people in the
> relationship has screws loose, and the other is a calm, nice loving
> person.
Jason wasn't a good man. He rejected Medea when her foreignness
started to repulse him (where as before he'd found it exotic.)
There have been cases for child killing that resemble the Medea
story, and usually it's the man who does the killing. But this
isn't one of those cases.
bel
>
Sophie
> wondering if maybe the parents are Catholic or something... If that
> was the case then birth control would be against their religion.
My neighbors have 4 boys - all with very religious names (like Job, Levi)
and they are so far from religious. Actually all my friends with 4 or more
kids (and I can think of 5 families off the top of my head with that many
children) are not religious at all. They just want lots of kids.
--
Sophie
Kristina
wrote:
>Sorry, just got my period again.....clock is ticking.....and my heart breaks
>one more time.
Yikes. I hope you catch a break somewhere and are allowed to give
some child that desparately needs one a loving home.
Kristina
Mary Beth
belong to one - I'm surprised nothing's been said yet. I ask this because:
- This woman's pumping out children like there's no tomorrow
- All the kids have biblical names
- They were homeschooling all of them
Anyone hear anything about it?
Regards,
Mary Beth
"If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning" --
Catherine Aird
~ Please make sure your IQ is higher than my potted plant before you e-mail me!
~
Sophie
>belong to one - I'm surprised nothing's been said yet. I ask this because:
>- This woman's pumping out children like there's no tomorrow
>- All the kids have biblical names
>- They were homeschooling all of them
>Anyone hear anything about it?
>Regards,
>Mary Beth
For goodness sake, *normal* people do these things too. Go to any parenting
newsgroup and ask about homeschooling. Lots of non-religious people do it
for various reasons, as well as have lots of kids. Maybe they just like
Biblical names. Big deal.
--
Sophie
Brad
where
> >he
> >> shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
Wow! For the first time ever, I read a news story and got shivers down my
spine.
Amy
>where
>> >he
>> >> shared his siblings' fate, the report said.
Why was a severely depressed woman home schooling her children?
-Amy
e-mail: ande...@tc.umn.edu
http://members.aol.com/celicasnaz/
VDLS
foxm...@popmail.com (Brian Christopher) writes:
>I agree 100%. I am tired of the "world" and "media" using the exuse of
>"mental illness." You still KNOW what you did. I mean, she killed 5
>kids. She had plenty of time to think about what she was doing.
>
She knew enough of what she did to call the husband and tell him to come home.
I read where the husbands mother was due to come over to help her with the kids
around 10:00.............. if she killed them before that "she knew" enough to
do it before someone could come and help. To have chased the 7 year
old................
(my Lord) just struggling with him should have given her a "rational" moment.
Between this story and the one with the little girl in the
closet...............why?
VanS
VanS
John Savard
>This woman methodically murdered FIVE children- and has expressed no remorse-
>and he still loves her? He's got a screw loose too, to say the least.
Well, if she _were_ suffering from a curable mental illness, to put it
bluntly and cold-bloodedly, she is his best chance to make new ones.
Men aren't objective about their sexual partners, any more than normal
mothers are objective about their children - they often still love
*them* even if they do horrible things.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
mikes wife
> ----------
> In article <3b33aa82...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
> mas...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Sunny) wrote:
>
>
> > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:06:02 GMT, sjohnson@~kcnet.com (Top Sirloin)
> > wrote:
> >
> >>He's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to
> be
> >>mentally unstable.
Maybe the fact that he still loves her show how blind this man is to
the obvious.. he only sees what he wants to see and he didn't see that
she was emotionally exhausted from taking care of all those kids.. now
they are dead
Karen M
mrsmik...@c4.com (mikes wife) wrote:
>
> Maybe the fact that he still loves her show how blind this man is to
> the obvious.. he only sees what he wants to see and he didn't see that
> she was emotionally exhausted from taking care of all those kids.. now
> they are dead
Undoubtedly he's still in shock over the whole ugly situation. Maybe we
should wait 'til the trial and see how 'blind' he remains.
Karen
Billie
>
> Maybe the fact that he still loves her show how blind this man is to
> the obvious.. he only sees what he wants to see and he didn't see that
> she was emotionally exhausted from taking care of all those kids.. now
> they are dead
I'll be curious what facts come out about this. This is a woman who attempted
suicide in the past, was currently on strong medication for depression and
rather than practicing birth control and institutionalizing her for some much
needed help, her husband is slapping happy faces on the problem. I don't know
how many pleas for help she needed to put out there before someone heard her.
I place the husband in the same category as the parents of the Columbine
killers, he isn't guilty of a crime, but there were signs of trouble everywhere
that weren't being addressed 'properly.' I know he's grieving, but he shares
some of the responsibility. I still wonder if killing the children rather than
herself wasn't aimed at hurting the husband.
Billie
"STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP. Park elsewhere!"
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Kathy
The husband's mother has also stated that her daughter-in-law was
a good person and a wonderful mother.
Kathy
Stormstruck
A woman got her 6 kids and gassed them and herself in a car, a week later a
man got his 4 kids gassed them and himself in a car.
I don't get these people, if they have a problem with living, fine. Why off
the kids?
This woman needs to be executed and her husband is culpable for not only
ignoring the warning signs, but also conceiving another child with her and
adding to the stress she obviously thought she was under.
For the pro-lifers my answer is - if they are dead they can't kill again.
Deal with the problem at the source, don't stick a bandaid on it.
--
Neo - "I know Kung Fu"
Morpheus - "Show me"
- The Matrix
**snip harrowing report of murder**
I Am The DJ
I'm a little disturbed at the beating homeschooling is taking... this woman was
doing what people, up until about 125 years or so ago, did -- she was raising
her kids in the home. State-mandated schooling didn't even begin to exist until
the 1850s. People choose to homeschool all the time for a variety of reasons.
It sounds like there was plenty of help from extended family, too, so
homeschooling wasn't what drove her over the edge. She clearly had a problem to
begin with. There are plenty of women with kids in school who off them as well.
Or abuse them. Or lock them in closets. Or whatever.
The question here, the root of the issue, is why this family, with a mother
having a history of mental illness, continued to have children?
Leeb <--homeschooling mother of two
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Common sense is the most widely shared commodity in the world, for every man is
convinced he is well supplied with it. -- Descartes
Liz B.
I Am The DJ <djlb...@aol.comcripes> wrote in message
news:20010623132726...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
I noticed this emphasis on homeschooling too. The idea of her
homeschooling the
children bothered me, but not because I have any problems with it. I know
many
people who homeschool their children and they do a wonderful job. My
thought was
that on top of having 5 children under 7 years of age, which is hard enough,
she was
also educating them herself which is a lot of work. How do you teach a
couple of
kids while watching the younger ones, day after day? Even with some outside
help,
it must have been very hard. This was a horrific thing to do, but I can't
help but
have a lot of sympathy for that woman. Of course, we don't know the whole
story -
like why they had so many kids, what her educational level was, what her
relationship
with her husband was like, religious background, who wanted to have so many
kids and
so on.
LizB
Liz B.
Stormstruck <storm...@nospam.my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:99331180...@news.satix.net...
I don't quite get how executing the mother is dealing with the problem
at its
source. It's more like dealing with the end result of something that took a
long time to develop. Somehow I don't see this woman as someone who
in any other set of circumstances would do this sort of thing again. Wasn't
it Susan Smith (?) who drowned her kids in the car, said they were
abducted and it turned out she wanted to get rid of them because they
were in the way of some relationship she had going on? Maybe I have the
story mixed up. But that scenario I find scary, if true - killing the kids
and trying to hide it for some sort of gain. Maybe I have that whole thing
wrong, as it sounds really horrific when I type it out.
Anyway, some people I just think are reacting to extreme circumstances,
not inherently murderous or cruel people. We don't know enough about
this case to judge. I don't believe in the death penalty for anyone,
though.
LizB
Sophie
>it Susan Smith (?) who drowned her kids in the car, said they were
>abducted and it turned out she wanted to get rid of them because they
>were in the way of some relationship she had going on? Maybe I have the
>story mixed up.
You have the story straight.
--
Sophie
Billie
>This woman needs to be executed and her husband is culpable for not only
>ignoring the warning signs, but also conceiving another child with her and
>adding to the stress she obviously thought she was under.
I wonder if the husband was pressuring her for another child?
Billie
confused about is that if she wasn't functioning well, why did she take on such
a big task?
Billie...Enzo will be homeschooled.
djlbeekay wrote:
"STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP. Park elsewhere!"
I Am The DJ
it, that "they" would start cracking down on homeschoolers because of this
incident, crowing for more regulation, etc... scares me, but I'm siding with
Rush on this one... ACK!!
Then Billie wrote:
>Billie...Enzo will be homeschooled.
Yay!! You know, over the past couple of years that I've been lurking here, I've
often thought your daughter and I would get along smashingly.
Leeb <--- you know, the wacky breastfeedin' homeschoolin' conspiracy-lovin'
fools that we both seem to be
mslinda
Home schooling should be a personal decision. What works for a
well-adjusted, well-educated mom of two might be a disaster for a
depressed, overworked, overwhelmed mother of five.
Linda C.
Kristina
wrote:
>Leeb <--- you know, the wacky breastfeedin' homeschoolin' conspiracy-lovin'
>fools that we both seem to be
I don't know about the conspiracies <g>, but I'm with both of y'all in
that group, LOL.
Kristina
**Keeper of Peter Wingfield and Tim McGraw**
"The secret of life is there ain't no secret,
and you don't get your money back"
- From "Secret of Life" by Faith Hill
Maggie
>
>>This woman needs to be executed and her husband is culpable for not only
>>ignoring the warning signs, but also conceiving another child with her
>and
>>adding to the stress she obviously thought she was under.
>
>I wonder if the husband was pressuring her for another child?
***I wonder if she was pressuring the husband for another chance at having a
girl?
Maggie
"Researchers have long known that there is one extremely common genetic factor
that confers at least a ten-fold increase in the propensity to exhibit
criminally violent behavior. It is called the Y chromosome."--Francis S.
Collins
The Great Charmander
ones that had the BBQ cookout on the day that tape of 3 of the boys was taped),
they're going to be buried at a Church of Christ, for anyone wanting to know
the religious affiliation. Sounds like she just got more than she could
handle, and I just got sick to the stomach hearing about it.
Billie
doesn't. She's a peach!
Billie...okay, enough from me now.
leeb wrote:
>Then Billie wrote:
>
>>Billie...Enzo will be homeschooled.
>
>Yay!! You know, over the past couple of years that I've been lurking here,
>I've
>often thought your daughter and I would get along smashingly.
>
>Leeb <--- you know, the wacky breastfeedin' homeschoolin' conspiracy-lovin'
>fools that we both seem to be
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Common sense is the most widely shared commodity in the world, for every man
>is
>convinced he is well supplied with it. -- Descartes
>
>
>
>
>
>
"STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP. Park elsewhere!"
Billie
brother...you'll realize the marriage was in a shambles, and the father wanted
6 children, the mother had only wanted 3.
Billie
Maggie wrote:
>>stormstruck wrote:
>>
>>>This woman needs to be executed and her husband is culpable for not only
>>>ignoring the warning signs, but also conceiving another child with her
>>and
>>>adding to the stress she obviously thought she was under.
>>
>billie said;
>>I wonder if the husband was pressuring her for another child?
>
>***I wonder if she was pressuring the husband for another chance at having a
>girl?
"STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP. Park elsewhere!"
I Am The DJ
>Home schooling should be a personal decision. What works for a
>well-adjusted, well-educated mom of two might be a disaster for a
>depressed, overworked, overwhelmed mother of five.
Homeschooling is NOT the villian here. Homeschooling wasn't the disaster. That
she was a mother at all was the disaster here. The woman was clearly unhinged
and diabolically planned to kill her offspring.
Homeschooling isn't usually "school-at-home", anyway. I doubt she was trying to
do 8 hours of instruction a day for each kid. If they were like most
homeschooling families, two hours in the morning suffices. Besides, weren't
there only one or two kids of "school" age? Maybe she wasn't homeschooling at
all. Maybe that's what they were calling it. Maybe they felt that 7 was too
young for "formal" instruction (some folks feel this way). Maybe the kids were
just running around all day, a not-uncommon occurence in large families...
we'll never know.
We can't blame this family for making the decision to teach their kids at home
and in the world. You're right, it's a personal decision. Our culture
encourages parents to institutionalize their children at ever-younger ages and
to remove them from the "real" world. Perhaps her husband disagreed with this
viewpoint and decided that she should keep them home, even though she might not
have wanted to or felt she was up to it. Perhaps those in the family believed
that maintaining closeness with her kids would help her, not hinder her
recovery (or turn out like it did). Perhaps it's not their methods of
childraising that should be called into question; perhaps it's the fact that
they were having children at all. Who knows? There are a lot of variables here
that we'll never know, since everything will be so twisted in the press.
Leeb <--- hopping off the soapbox now
THLCCL
>wondering if maybe the parents are Catholic or something... If that
>was the case then birth control would be against their religion.
>
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they are not Catholic because I grew
up in Clear Lake where all this happened.
The closest Catholic church is St. Bernadette's, which is less than 2 minutes
from the Yate's home.
The funerals are being held at a Church of Christ Church which is very near
also.
I'd think that if they were Catholic they would attend St Bernadette's which is
practically at the Yate's back door.
**Kate**
Sophie
which is
>practically at the Yate's back door.
>**Kate**
I read something yesterday saying they weren't members of *any* church. I
know plenty of people who homeschool, or whose kids have Biblical names, or
who have lots of kids but they aren't religious at all.
--
Sophie
THLCCL
>know plenty of people who homeschool, or whose kids have Biblical names, or
>who have lots of kids but they aren't religious at all.
For anyone that is interested.
The URL for the Houston Chronicle Newspaper is:
http://www.houstonchronicle.com
You can read more about this whole sad situation there.
**Kate**
Marianna Trench
>I'll be curious what facts come out about this. This is a woman who
>attempted
>suicide in the past, was currently on strong medication for depression and
>rather than practicing birth control and institutionalizing her for some much
>needed help, her husband is slapping happy faces on the problem. I don't
>know
>how many pleas for help she needed to put out there before someone heard her.
>
>I place the husband in the same category as the parents of the Columbine
>killers, he isn't guilty of a crime, but there were signs of trouble
>everywhere
>that weren't being addressed 'properly.' I know he's grieving, but he shares
>some of the responsibility. I still wonder if killing the children rather
>than
>herself wasn't aimed at hurting the husband.
I think you have a good point. This woman wasn't merely depressed; she was
taking anti-psychotic medications (Haldol) which is NOT used for garden-variety
depression. When I heard that she had killed the kids and made no attempt on
herself, I wondered if she did it to hurt the dad. Seems like in a lot of the
PPD cases, if the mom kills the kid, she at least tries to kill herself too.
Marianna
*****************************
I live in my own little world, but it's ok; they know me here.
LuvSuni
>and they are so far from religious. Actually all my friends with 4 or more
>kids (and I can think of 5 families off the top of my head with that many
>children) are not religious at all. They just want lots of kids.
My boyfriend is the oldest of four boys and they don't have religious names,
rather his dad wanted a big family (he was the youngest of 8 kids). My
boyfriend told me that his mom went through the "baby blues" all four times,
but always came out of it within a week. The situation with the lady in Texas
is that it's a sad situation.
Suni (AKA Suni Spice, keeper of Danny Elfman and knower of stupid trivia)
University of Iowa class of 2001.
China Kate Sunflower
cannonballs, maggi...@aol.comSPAMBLOC's motto is:
>
>>stormstruck wrote:
>>
>>>This woman needs to be executed and her husband is culpable for not only
>>>ignoring the warning signs, but also conceiving another child with her
>>and
>>>adding to the stress she obviously thought she was under.
>>
>billie said;
>>I wonder if the husband was pressuring her for another child?
>
>***I wonder if she was pressuring the husband for another chance at having a
>girl?
She had a girl, the infant.
All reports thus far have made mention of the fact that she didn't want kids, or
at least didn't want as many as she had and as many as her husband wanted.
K.
--
The Dude abides.
China Kate Sunflower
>I don't get these people, if they have a problem with living, fine. Why off
>the kids?
Because they're *completely barking MAD*, that's why. I don't get you people.
Why do you even bother to ask "Why why why?" when crazed shit like this goes
down?
>This woman needs to be executed and her husband is culpable for not only
>ignoring the warning signs, but also conceiving another child with her and
>adding to the stress she obviously thought she was under.
What possible reason would there be to execute here? To prevent her from doing
it again? Life in prison (or a psychicatric institution) will take care of
that. "Deterrence?" Executing her isn't going to stop people from having
psychotic breaks; those sorts of events don't usually respond to persuasion.
>For the pro-lifers my answer is - if they are dead they can't kill again.
If they're in an institution for life they can't kill again.
>Deal with the problem at the source, don't stick a bandaid on it.
Eh, execution would be tantamount to closing the barn door after the cows have
escaped (did I get that analogy right?) The source of the problem has been in
place for about eight years and has reared its ugly head already. It's
faaaaaaar too late to deal with any problem at the source.
MG
Charmander) wrote:
>From what was told lately (one of my cousins lives next door, and they were the
>ones that had the BBQ cookout on the day that tape of 3 of the boys was taped),
>they're going to be buried at a Church of Christ,
Oh GAWD.
The Church of Christ is seriously freaky. If you ever want a true
X-Files-like experience, go to one of their churches on a Sunday.
(They'll be GLAD to have you!) Watch with ever-increasing horror as
members speak tremulously about being "re-born", and after the third
hour or so, right about the time of the 5th call for donations, you'll
start to notice that EVERYBODY is SMILING. Constantly. They haven't
stopped smiling, in fact, since you arrived. They are happy, happy,
happy, happy.
I could easily see one of 'em snapping under the pressure of all that
smiling.
*shudder*
MG
Mary
wondering if maybe the parents are Catholic or something... If that was
the case then birth control would be against their religion.>>
No, they are not Catholic. Catholics seldom use biblical names for
their children. It wasn't a matter of birth control, he wanted all the
kids he could have. It's usually these born again types that want to
repopulate the world in their own likeness. Like that poligamy guy with
5 wives and 30 kids. It's digusting.
Besides all catholics with a half a brain do use birth control and
almost all of the church has changed it just takes the Vatican a bit to
catch up. I mean look around you, at the catholics in your
neighborhood, nuclear families, almost all.
Anyway, more important than what their stated philosophy is, it's pretty
obvious to everyone who saw his unemotional statement of forgiveness for
that cold murderess and his lack of dispair over his 5 children. I think
we have a guy here, who has guilt. I don't know yet, what his guilt is,
but the moron stated that they wanted to have as many children as they
possibly could have.
I wonder, if he ever checked with her on her feelings about being a
brood mare for his flock. I guess she's spoke loud and clear about how
she felt. As i type this, a thought come to mind, that as she made no
attempt to kill herself, but called him to come home and see what she
did. All i can think of, is that she was paying him back in the most
inhuman and vicious way she could. She wanted to be there to see him
witness, all of his children, that he wanted so bad and she obviously
didn't.
Yeah, this guy is carrying around some guilt allreight, impregnanting a
sick woman. At least she looks the part of a woman who has been
suffering, her bones sticking out of that baggy shirt. He should have
seen.
Mary
at hurting the husband.
Bingo!
Hippypippi
Is that the church that believes in "Planting," sending bands of disciples to
places without a Church of Christ to set up new churches and recruit new
disciples to send out "planting" elsewhere? IIRC, they are a cross between a
fundamentalist church and a pyramid scheme.
Hippypippi
>at hurting the husband.
>Billie>
I think there were a number of factors feeding this horrible psychotic episode,
and that may be one of them. Her suicide attempt in 1999 took place at her
father's house, with his Alzheimer's medication. Seems there was a message
there too.
Top Sirloin
wrote:
> We don't know enough about this case to judge.
Um, she drowned her five kids in cold blood and has _admitted_ to it.
> I don't believe in the death penalty for anyone, though.
Too bad. I believe we should use the most severe consequence at our disposal
when someone takes another's life.
-Scott Johnson
Kill Mumia Abu-Jamal
http://www.danielfaulkner.com
Top Sirloin
>On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:06:02 GMT, sjohnson@~kcnet.com (Top Sirloin)
>wrote:
>
>>He's also to blame for having unprotected sex with someone he knew to be
>>mentally unstable.
>
>I noticed that all of the kids had names from the Bible, so I was
>wondering if maybe the parents are Catholic or something... If that
>was the case then birth control would be against their religion.
But murdering your five children is a-ok with god?!?!?
Top Sirloin
>From a Christian standpoint, she gave in to the devil.
From an atheist standpoint, I wouldn't worship a god who's followers kill their
children.
MG
I haven't heard of "planting", but it does sound like something they'd
be into. I do know that they all are supposed to approach a certain
number of strangers every day and invite them to church. The Church
of Christ has a cultlike quality that sets it slightly apart from the
usual fundie church -- I'm not into Christianity, but if it floats
your boat, great; but these people use mind control techniques and
intimidation to keep members from leaving the church, and require
frequent donations like most heavy-duty cults -- er, religions.
MG
Dogs think humans are gods.
Cats are not so easily deluded.
Mary Beth
>I'm a little disturbed at the beating homeschooling is taking
I don't think it's prejudice against homeschooling per se. I think
homeschooling is a great thing in certain situations; however, it can be
stressful for the parent. In this particular situation, she had several older
children, several smaller children, an infant and a mental illness. I think it
was more than she could handle -- but not the cause of what she did.
Regards,
Mary Beth
"If I can't be a good example, I'll just have to be a horrible warning" --
Catherine Aird
~ Please make sure your IQ is higher than my potted plant before you e-mail me!
~
Wull
Are you Board Certified?
TIA
Regards
Wull
Billie
He and his wife had divorced (they had a 3 year old boy) and she had wed and
she and her husband joined the Church of Christ. The father of the child was
distraught and trying to gain custody of this child because he suspected the
child was being beaten (he bore bruises on his buttocks, and told his father
that he was spanked for wetting his pants 'in the name of Jesus'.) One day,
the mother was gone, and the step-father backhanded this child for not eating
his dinner, and the kid and the booster chair he was in flew back and hit the
wall, killing the child. This devasted the father, who ended up almost dying
in an attempted suicide, consumed with grief that he hadn't just taken his
child rather than go through the proper channels. The step-father was
convicted, but never served a day in jail, and his wife stood by him, saying it
was 'God's will.' Strangely enough the step-father later became an attorney.
So my only association with this church was not happy.
Billie
janette wrote:
"STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP. Park elsewhere!"
Mary Beth
<as usual, nothing of any value>
*sniff sniff* . . . smells like Wull shit himself again. Someone better call
for the nurse.
Wull
All sows are noted for their sense of smell. I have not reached that stage yet, so
I suspect it is your own putrid odor that you are smelling.
Do you ever say anything (when u attack other posters, which if your forté) of
value or do you always show your ignorance and lack of education and good
upbringing?
I can keep this up as long as you can you harpy. I always thought Harpies were
found only in mythology, but I was wrong, they do exist. I am retired and have all
the time in the world.
I have been watching the same triumvirate run rampant over other posters for a long
time.
Wull
maryanne kehoe
WHOA! Just one min-ute here!
What is *really* bothering me about is case is that the prosecutor down
there is deciding if this is going to be a capital murder case or not.
There was some question about legal representation for the mother,
apparently the court had assigned her a court-appointed atty.., but the
family has hired their own legal representation for her.
The husband is one of the innocent victims in all this (besides the
kids, of course). For the law to prove "culpability", there has to be
clear evidence of collusion in the deaths of the kids (i.e. he had to be
in on the planning of it). From what I have read, that is just not the
case here. He was questioned by cops but that does not imply guilt on
his part.
As an ex-juror, I would have real trouble sitting on this jury for the
penalty phase of the trial (if she was found guilty). The woman is sick,
she needs treatment, and not a one-way trip to death row. Possibly if
the law in Texas allows for a "not guilty by reason of insanity"
verdict, perhaps the lady can get the help she needs when in prison.
Bird Lady
It's awfully good to see my instincts were correct. I cut Wull
loose about 2 years ago, after one of his thinly veiled attacks
on women (and his salacious comments to my early posts.)
Since he hasn't received any interaction lately, I think he's
taken to attacking the female regulars just so SOMEONE will
respond to him.
Truly, he's a creep, who if he can't get women's praise and
reassurance, then he'll bait and insult them.
bel
In article <3B37824C...@datarecall.net>,
wjma...@datarecall.net says...
Mary Beth
himself, tapped out what he thinks passes for pith and wit:
>Do you ever say anything (when u attack other posters, which if your forté)
>of
>value or do you always show your ignorance and lack of education and good
>upbringing?
Hee hee hee! Look who's talking! You wouldn't know education, class or
sophistication if it pissed on you, Wull!
Please, pontificate some more from your pathetic point of view -- why don't you
expound on how much you hate women?
I Am The DJ
>homeschooling is a great thing in certain situations; however, it can be
>stressful for the parent.
Sorry... I respectfully disagree. Almost everything in the mainstream press is
biased against homeschooling. When stuff like *this* happens, it makes it worse
for those of us who're just trying to give our kids a great education and
family life.
Leeb <-- really pissed, but not at Mary Beth
Wull
Texas does have what you say,* not guilty for reason of insanity*. But in
every discussion that I have heard, it is always said, it doesn't work out
that way in favor of the defendant very often.
Texas is part of the bible belt and is still in the mode of "an eye for an
eye", I think.
Wull
Mary Beth
>Sorry... I respectfully disagree. Almost everything in the mainstream press
>is
>biased against homeschooling.
That may be; I'm talking about the previous posts.
Marianna Trench
>Please, pontificate some more from your pathetic point of view -- why don't
>you
>expound on how much you hate women?
Since he only accepts opinion from people who are "board certified", I'd say
he's gotta be an authority on that.
Marianna
but then again, let's not encourage him- someone'shas to wipe the drool off his
keyboard and it must be one nasty job
Wull
compatriots have contributed to this ng. I could say that you and the same
compatriots hate men. All three of you complain about men and the hateful, bitchy
posts that the three of you spew are full of loathing for men. I just never
commented on it. If you hate men that is your privilege. Just as it is my
privilege if I hate women, but actually that is a concoction dreamed up by you and
yours.
If the three of you would post about celebrities and stop criticizing other
posters, things would be a lot better around here.
Regards
Wull--and as for your foolish comments about asking for credentials for
psychoanalysis, that is your problem if you can't see to that. And might I ask why
you (who really surprises me) and the others who make the comments about old age,
it only shows your ignorance and your opinion of older people, sort of like the way
yu'all say I hate women. One is very close to old age, the fat cow, I have no idea
of her age and could not care less about her and you , who looks so young, may one
day grow up but I am having my doubts about that
Mary Beth
>If the three of you would post about celebrities and stop criticizing other
>posters, things would be a lot better around here.
Practice what you preach, idiot.
Marianna Trench
>posts that the three of you spew are full of loathing for men. I just never
>commented on it.
You comment on it frequently. Where you got the idea that I male-bash is beyond
me. (Bashing Mick Jagger doesn't count.
And if you think he's some paragon of male behavior, then I can see why you
have such a low opinion of women.)
If you don't like the fact that women actually have opinions and use
profanity, then you're in the wrong group and about thirty years behind the
times. Besides, why not just killfile me, Mary Beth, and Billie?
Marianna
and why you think it's ok to call someone a fat cow, but not ok for someone to
call you old, is also beyond me
Billie
Billie
Marianna wrote:
>Besides, why not just killfile me, Mary Beth, and Billie?
>
>Marianna
>and why you think it's ok to call someone a fat cow, but not ok for someone
>to
>call you old, is also beyond me
>
>
>
>
>
>
"STUPIDITY IS NOT A HANDICAP. Park elsewhere!"
Wull
Have u heard me call any other posters names? Of course you haven't ,unless it
was done in fun.
The only serious name calling I do is for the loud mouthed, vitriolic, caustic
or is it acidic? sailors. It is not my fault that in this case they happen to
be females. A subject that you three seem to
bring to the forefront every time one of you is accused of unlady like
behavior. The last time I looked, being a lady is something desired by all, men
and women alike.. The argument that foul
(or as one of you has said *fowl*) language is a sign of the times was invented
by people like the three of you, it doesn't wash. Unless, as I learned in this
news group, you are trailer trash.
As I have stated numerous times, you leave me alone, I leave you alone. You
stop name calling, I stop name calling. It is as simple as that.
Regards
Wull
Mary Beth
>Exactly, you know the answer without me saying it.
Yeah, that you're some bitter, senile old fuck who gets his kicks insulting
women. We all picked up on that.
>A subject that you three seem to
>bring to the forefront every time one of you is accused of unlady like
>behavior.
We're not ladies, Wull; we're *women.* Get used to it -- it changed sometime
around 1970. We're not meek, we're not submissive, and we don't put up with
shit from assholes like you, male or female.
>As I have stated numerous times, you leave me alone, I leave you alone. You
>stop name calling, I stop name calling. It is as simple as that.
Sweetheart, you couldn't killfile us or stop calling us whatever ridiculous
names you think are insulting if you TRIED. You live for this; I'm sure you're
sitting with what passes for a woody for you every time you see one of us
posted.
Wull
Name calling and cursing is one thing but also being vulgar, nasty and downright
abusive is too much for me. I could continue the abysmal discourse but I have to
say adios. I will most assuredly not post to you behemoths again. Go on live in
your disgusting lives but I won't be a part of it. I really am surprised that a
pig like you would know what a woody was. I am sure none have ever come near you
with your green hide and pop eyes, at about 300 pounds.
Regards
Mary Beth
>Well it is time to call it a day.
Thank God! What, the nurses preparing to untie you from the chair and move you
to the bed?
>Name calling and cursing is one thing but also being vulgar, nasty and
>downright
>abusive is too much for me.
Please . . . you thrive on it.
> really am surprised that a
>pig like you would know what a woody was. I am sure none have ever come near
>you
>with your green hide and pop eyes, at about 300 pounds.
LOL! Sweetie, I'm just surprised that any self-respecting woman ever *fucked*
you, much less reproduced you.
Good riddance.
R Christopher
about his wife's feelings about having any more children.... why does no
one want to consider "marital rape" and emotional blackmail? I feel sorry
for the children.. why is there no mention of her having "any" friends
outside the "family". And what doctor would not at least recommend having
her tubes tied? It sounds as if she was kept isolated, and how many outings
did she really participate in? No one wants to come forward and say......
how sad, such quiet desperation, and no one seemed to care...
"Mary" <Mary...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22423-3B...@storefull-157.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
|
| No, they are not Catholic. Catholics seldom use biblical names for
| their children. It wasn't a matter of birth control, he wanted all the
| kids he could have. It's usually these born again types that want to
| repopulate the world in their own likeness. Like that poligamy guy with
| 5 wives and 30 kids. It's digusting.
|
| Anyway, more important than what their stated philosophy is, it's pretty
| obvious to everyone who saw his unemotional statement of forgiveness for
| that cold murderess and his lack of dispair over his 5 children. I think
| we have a guy here, who has guilt. I don't know yet, what his guilt is,
| but the moron stated that they wanted to have as many children as they
| possibly could have.
|
| I wonder, if he ever checked with her on her feelings about being a
| brood mare for his flock. I guess she's spoke loud and clear about how
| she felt. As i type this, a thought come to mind, that as she made no
| attempt to kill herself, but called him to come home and see what she
| did. All i can think of, is that she was paying him back in the most
| inhuman and vicious way she could. She wanted to be there to see him
| witness, all of his children, that he wanted so bad and she obviously
| didn't.
|
| Yeah, this guy is carrying around some guilt allreight, impregnanting a
| sick woman. At least she looks the part of a woman who has been
| suffering, her bones sticking out of that baggy shirt. He should have
| seen.
|
Top Sirloin
>>I don't think it's prejudice against homeschooling per se. I think
>>homeschooling is a great thing in certain situations; however, it can be
>>stressful for the parent.
>
>Sorry... I respectfully disagree. Almost everything in the mainstream press is
>biased against homeschooling. When stuff like *this* happens, it makes it worse
>for those of us who're just trying to give our kids a great education and
>family life.
And not turn out another mini-flock of sheeple.
MG
>My only connection with this church involved a man who belonged to my church.
>He and his wife had divorced (they had a 3 year old boy) and she had wed and
>she and her husband joined the Church of Christ. The father of the child was
>distraught and trying to gain custody of this child because he suspected the
>child was being beaten (he bore bruises on his buttocks, and told his father
>that he was spanked for wetting his pants 'in the name of Jesus'.) One day,
>the mother was gone, and the step-father backhanded this child for not eating
>his dinner, and the kid and the booster chair he was in flew back and hit the
>wall, killing the child. This devasted the father, who ended up almost dying
>in an attempted suicide, consumed with grief that he hadn't just taken his
>child rather than go through the proper channels. <snip>
That poor man! And of course if he *had* just taken the child to
protect it, he would be in jail for kidnapping and still not have the
child. What a great shame that laws don't allow rational parents to
protect their children -- like that mother who took her daughter
because the child was being abused by her custodial father, and has to
live like a fugitive to avoid prison, all because she cares more about
her daughter than herself. It's totally backwards!
My experience with Church of Christ was with their Boston chapter
around 10 years ago; I was exploring all sorts of religions just to
see what was out there, what others believed (I was raised Catholic
but no longer have any religious affiliation). Some lady approached
me and explained that she worked with teens and invited me to her
church. I figured, eh, what the heck, I'll have a look. I attended
one of her bible-study classes with a few other teens, and the one
mass (when I firmly knew these people were f*cked in the head).
I remember that one girl, whose parents were Hindis, needed a lot of
comforting because in Hindu culture it is not only acceptable, but
expected that you beat your children. However, I got the distinct
impression that they were coaching her to accept it as "Gawd's Will"
rather than trying to help the poor girl get out of that house! It
really pissed me off.
What was really twisted was there was this 16-year old girl from
Venezuela who had a baby, with her boyfriend. They were engaged, but
since being "saved" they realized that sex before marriage is a "sin"
and so were abstinent until they got married. WHAT?! They already
had a baby together! I guess being "saved" means you're a virgin
again, too?
Marianna Trench
>The only serious name calling I do is for the loud mouthed, vitriolic,
>caustic
>or is it acidic? sailors. It is not my fault that in this case they happen
>to
>be females. A subject that you three seem to
>bring to the forefront every time one of you is accused of unlady like
>behavior. The last time I looked, being a lady is something desired by all,
>men
>and women alike..
Ah yes, the Land of Wull, where ladies speak softly, defer graciously to men,
and wear corsets; while those who don't abide by this are downgraded to Mere
Woman/Trailer Trash status. If lofty pursuits float your boat, what are you
doing in this newsgroup? Gossip and related topics don't lend themselves to Sir
Galahad-land. Learn to use a killfile, or shut up. You're not going to shut me
up, nor are you going to shame me with your medieval reproaches.
>foul
>(or as one of you has said *fowl*) language is a sign of the times was
>invented
>by people like the three of you, it doesn't wash. Unless, as I learned in
>this
>news group, you are trailer trash.
I suggest you get out of the house more often. This isn't 1940 any more; the
culture has changed. Stay inside and make believe that it has all you want, but
once you come out and try to play Avenging Angel Of Manners, you're going to
get your ass kicked.
Unless, of course, you're the type that enjoys pissing on other people's
playgrounds, which I'm beginning to suspect. Go correct someone else's manners
for a change.
Marianna
very proud to be anointed as a Harpy by Mr. Gentility himself