Commonwealth War Graves Commission
Andrea Barnes
It is Martin Cleaver <mcle...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> I contacted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission last week...
> I had recently found a great uncle of mine who was killed on the
> front in France in 1918. 1.7 million records are stored on
> www.cwgc.org and this strikes me as an invaluable genealogical
> resourse. It would be great if the site made it possible to leave a
> message recording a "hit". That way any other relative can see
> there is interest from someone else.
>
> However the reply was rather disappointing:
>
> >>The Commission is responsible for the commemoration of members of
> the Commonwealth Forces who died during the two World Wars. This is
> done by a headstone marking the grave or, if the grave is not known,
> on one of the Commission's memorials to the missing. We are also
> responsible for keeping record of where they are commemorated.<<
>
> >>We are not a Family Tree Association and have no facilities or
> resources to incorporate this function.<<
>
> That strikes me as pretty short-sighted and not particularly
> friendly... If I found someone else had Charles Haynd Cleaver as a
> relative, I would be extremely happy and have a much higher regard
> for the work of the CWGC.
I think that this is a difficult position. Yes, from a
genealogist's point of view, it would be extremely useful. I am a
professional genealogist and lost many of my ancestors in the first
World War. Having visited war graves in France, I think that the
War Graves Commission do a wonderful job in protecting the memories
of the dead. On balance, I would prefer that they carry on in this
low key manner and leave it to others to compile a list of contacts.
"Andrea Barnes" <Andrea...@tesco.net>
Wendy Loveless Miller
One of the problems with genalogical websites is that they take a lot of
work and don't have much financial backing. Many times, the features you'd
like to see on a site aren't provided because of the cost involved. You
can, of course, offer to pay for this service to be instituted on their site
but the cost is likely way more than you could imagine.
In another note, you mention Family Tree Maker using your data and
selling it back to you. This is simply their way of raising money to keep
their site going and to offer the interaction between users. I personally
do not order anything from Broderbund and haven't for over five years
because of the way they handle their genealogical data. However, I've seen
through Rootsweb and my own genealogical web site how difficult it is to
maintain and promote information on the web. I can't fault them for trying
even though they used data I submitted, too. Back then they didn't even
warn us that it would be resold . . . now it's disclosed on their site, I
believe.
Wendy Loveless Miller
Lovelxxx website:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~lovelace/
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Cleaver <mcle...@spamcop.net>
>
> I contacted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission last week...
> I had recently found a great uncle of mine who was killed on the
> front in France in 1918. 1.7 million records are stored on
> www.cwgc.org and this strikes me as an invaluable genealogical
> resourse. It would be great if the site made it possible to leave a
> message recording a "hit". That way any other relative can see
> there is interest from someone else.
>
> However the reply was rather disappointing:
>
> >>The Commission is responsible for the commemoration of members of
> the Commonwealth Forces who died during the two World Wars. This is
> done by a headstone marking the grave or, if the grave is not known,
> on one of the Commission's memorials to the missing. We are also
> responsible for keeping record of where they are commemorated.<<
>
> >>We are not a Family Tree Association and have no facilities or
> resources to incorporate this function.<<
>
> That strikes me as pretty short-sighted and not particularly
> friendly... If I found someone else had Charles Haynd Cleaver as a
> relative, I would be extremely happy and have a much higher regard
> for the work of the CWGC.
>
> Rgds
>
> Martin
>
> mcle...@spamcop.net (Martin Cleaver)
>
Martin Cleaver
Martin Cleaver
> you mention Family Tree Maker using your data and
>selling it back to you. This is simply their way of raising money to
>keep their site going and to offer the interaction between users. I
>personally do not order anything from Broderbund and haven't for over
>five years because of the way they handle their genealogical data.
I cannot believe we put up with this. If it was Microsoft, then the judge
would have intervened by now, if it were spammers, then spomething would
have been done. It is a subtle form of pyramid selling that should be
condemned by all and new users should be warned.
How can we prevent abuses like this?
Rgds
Martin
Greg Surratt
wrote:
>Martin,
>
> One of the problems with genalogical websites is that they take a lot of
>work and don't have much financial backing. Many times, the features you'd
>like to see on a site aren't provided because of the cost involved. You
>can, of course, offer to pay for this service to be instituted on their site
>but the cost is likely way more than you could imagine.
>
>Wendy Loveless Miller
>Lovelxxx website:
>http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~lovelace/
Cost isn't the only consideration. What about maintenance? I'm
talking about the person who leaves a name and e-mail address and the
changes service providers. How do you keep that database up-to-date
without annoying the people who mark themselves? Send out periodic
messages that say "Are you still at this address?"
Greg
Dave Hinz
: I cannot believe we put up with this. If it was Microsoft, then the judge
: would have intervened by now, if it were spammers, then spomething would
: have been done. It is a subtle form of pyramid selling that should be
: condemned by all and new users should be warned.
Well, I'm guessing it doesn't just grab your credit card from your wallet for
you, and I've never submitted to them so I don't know what it tells you, but...
: How can we prevent abuses like this?
Simple. If you want to share your data, give it to the LDS. This has a LOT
of benefits over giving it to some commercial company:
1. Your name is tied to it as the source. Anyone reading it can contact you
for more informatin, or maybe with more information.
2. The Mormons are committed to keeping genealogical data for eternity.
Who knows about some .com company? Say they get bought out next month by
a bigger company, who wants something other than their genealogy database.
Business decision - let's stop doing all this stuff about dead people. Where
is your data now? On some backup tapes being sold on ebay as salvage.
3. The LDS doesn't charge for access to your data. In fact, based on the
fees for making copies, bringing in films, etc, I'm quite confident it costs
them a good chunk of cash to support all this. Their motivation for this
is philosophical, rather than financial.
4. Anyone doing genealogical research becomes aware of the LDS, and/or their
website at http://www.familysearch.org at some point, and will check there.
There's a few dozen other places - why not put your data where you know
someone is going to look for it? Not only are you helping them, but
they may have a lot for you.
Now, don't get me wrong. I own a CD or two that I've purchased from the
"big names" and they have some good information on them. However, if you
want you family tree somewhere where it'll be safe, somewhere where people
are going to look for it, and somewhere where you don't have to pay to see
your own stuff, it's worth considering.
Dave Hinz
P.S. I'm not a member of the Mormon church, but am happy to benefit from their
work & resources.
Martin Cleaver
Andrea...@tesco.net (Andrea Barnes) wrote:
>I think that this is a difficult position. Yes, from a
>genealogist's point of view, it would be extremely useful (if
>the graves site made it possible to leave a marker, MC). I am a
>professional genealogist and lost many of my ancestors in the first
>World War. Having visited war graves in France, I think that the
>War Graves Commission do a wonderful job in protecting the memories
>of the dead. On balance, I would prefer that they carry on in this
>low key manner and leave it to others to compile a list of contacts.
They are the only place where people come and could "meet" having
found a loved one...
It would be a minor software revision or could even be achieved with
a simple link to another site where the genealogy information could
be exchanged.
Lesley Robertson
"Andrea Barnes" <Andrea...@tesco.net> wrote:
> I think that this is a difficult position. Yes, from a
> genealogist's point of view, it would be extremely useful. I am a
> professional genealogist and lost many of my ancestors in the first
> World War. Having visited war graves in France, I think that the
> War Graves Commission do a wonderful job in protecting the memories
> of the dead. On balance, I would prefer that they carry on in this
> low key manner and leave it to others to compile a list of contacts.
Yes, I agree. Europe (and much of the rest of the world) is
scattered with these war graves, not just in the famous huge
cemeteries but also in small churchyards where there might just be a
couple of airmen from a crashed plane, and yet they find and care
for them all. This is their function, and they carry it out with
very poor funding. Indeed, in the last couple of weeks there's been
a big fuss about them having to cut the allowances of their
gardeners, for example. When my late father was building the Roll
of Honour for the Cranwell Boy Entrants Electrical And Wireless
Association (info about the association is to be found with others
of its type on http://www.appbe.com/ ), they were extremely helpful
in providing information. After all, they didn't HAVE to put the
register on line.
Lesley Robertson
------- End of Forwarded Message
Lesley Robertson <l.a.ro...@stm.tudelft.nl>
Joe Bananas
mcle...@spamcop.net (Martin Cleaver) wrote:
> I cannot believe we put up with this.
>
Better get your believer fixed.
> If it was Microsoft, then the judge would have intervened by now,
>
Ah, the Great Satan. But it ain't Microsoft, is it? IAC, on what
grounds do you believe legal action could be taken? Is FTM a monopoly?
Not hardly.
> if it were spammers, then spomething would have been done.
>
But it ain't spammers, is it?
>It is a subtle form of pyramid selling
>
No it's not.
> that should be condemned by all
>
You don't like it, so you think it should be condemned by all? Right.
> and new users should be warned.
>
Like a surgeon general-type warning on the box: Warning: Martin
Cleaver has dertmined that the World Family Tree is a subtle form of
pyramid selling that should be condemned by all. Kewl.
> How can we prevent abuses like this?
>
I guess I could put you in my kill-file, but I might miss some
humourous postings if I did that.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard A. Pence
"Joe Bananas" <joeba...@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:8pr9ho$hdj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8FAF6312Emar...@24.132.64.35>,
> mcle...@spamcop.net (Martin Cleaver) wrote:
> > It is a subtle form of pyramid selling
> No it's not.
Because it's certainly not subtle, right?
<g>
Regards,
Richard A. Pence, 3211 Adams Ct, Fairfax, VA 22030
Voice 703-591-4243 Fax 703-385-0971
Pence Family History <http://www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/>
Jayne Paradis
I have looked at the CWGC and was impressed with the info there.
They do have, however, what is called the "Debt of Honour"
register where family members of the people who died in the various
wars can post info about them. Looking at that part of the site was
a great success for me as I found the great-grandson of my
great-grandmother's brother - a lost link.
Jayne Paradis
Winnipeg, Canada
Jayne Paradis
I mispoke a bit in my original posting. It is the Roll Of Honour
that I was referring to and can be found at:
http://www-saw.arts.ed.ac.uk/parent.html
This is where I found a relative.
Lesley Robertson
Jayne Paradis <jpar...@mts.net> wrote...
>
> > I have looked at the CWGC and was impressed with the info there.
> > They do have, however, what is called the "Debt of Honour"
> > register where family members of the people who died in the various
> > wars can post info about them. Looking at that part of the site was
> > a great success for me as I found the great-grandson of my
> > great-grandmother's brother - a lost link.
>
> that I was referring to and can be found at:
>
> http://www-saw.arts.ed.ac.uk/parent.html
>
> This is where I found a relative.
This site is Scots at War - a good organisation, but nothing to do
with the CWG Association.
Lesley Robertson
Lesley Robertson <l.a.ro...@stm.tudelft.nl>