Confidential Marriage Licenses
John
bit of a problem has arisen. Her parents have some irrational problem
with our marriage (they seem perfectly content for use to live
together and are otherwise amiable towards us, go figure) and when my
wife (god I like saying that) hinted about the possibility of us
getting married they became irate. They threatened to take away her
car and her horse and make her life difficult in any way they could if
she went through with it. They don't realize we are already married
and they have refused to speak with me on the matter. I don't really
understand what the source of the problem is as they aren't religious
and they aren't losing any tax benefits (my wife has been legally
divorced from her parents for a couple of years now, they are a little
crazy as evidenced by their current behavior).
We knew it would be a struggle and would like to introduce the matter
to them gradually but they intend to go to the county clerks office
and try to get info on the existence of our marriage. We were living
together before the marriage and decided to get a Confidential
Marriage License just to be discrete. It's my understanding that
because of the Confidential Marriage License nobody can get access to
our marriage record but will they be able to see that one exists? And
how secure are those documents really, I mean will they give it out
even if they aren't technically supposed to? If there is a good
chance they will find out we would like to handle it ourselves before
then (it's currently Saturday and the office doesn't open until
Monday). We were hoping someone here could share their experience or
insight into the matter.
Thank you in advance for any assistance.
Oh, and one more question. We fully intend to reveal our marriage to
her parents but if they prove stubbornly and irrationally opposed it
is not unfathomable that we will never reveal it to them. Everyone
who knows we are married is quite discrete and understands our
situation so I believe we could spend the rest of our lives together
without them ever finding out. Now, I care very much for my new wife
and she for me and we full intend to spend the rest of our lives
together but we are both rational cautious people and are well aware
of America's divorce statistics. If we should ever get divorced will
that divorce be part of the public record and if so would there be a
way to keep that private as well. As if her parents found out we were
divorced it would obviously signify that we were once married. Of
course by the time that could ever happen she probably wouldn't be so
worried about the car and horse.
Thanks again for any help you can provide.
Empress
>My long time girlfriend an I were married last Sunday (Yipee!) but a
>bit of a problem has arisen. Her parents have some irrational problem
>with our marriage (they seem perfectly content for use to live
>together and are otherwise amiable towards us, go figure) and when my
>wife (god I like saying that) hinted about the possibility of us
>getting married they became irate. They threatened to take away her
>car and her horse and make her life difficult in any way they could if
>she went through with it.
How old are you both? How is it that they can take something of hers
away if she's old enough to be married?
> They don't realize we are already married
>and they have refused to speak with me on the matter. I don't really
>understand what the source of the problem is as they aren't religious
>and they aren't losing any tax benefits (my wife has been legally
>divorced from her parents for a couple of years now, they are a little
>crazy as evidenced by their current behavior).
Well, you have a part in this, too. What's all the secrecy about?
<snip more secret shenanigans>
You seem to think you're making more sense than they are, but it
sounds to me like you're part of this problem. If you're both adults
and old enough to live together, marry and live your own lives, why in
the world would you choose to be sneaking around like this?
-Empress
Ms Pooply Wooply Pants
>My long time girlfriend an I were married last Sunday (Yipee!) but a
>bit of a problem has arisen. Her parents have some irrational problem
>with our marriage (they seem perfectly content for use to live
>together and are otherwise amiable towards us, go figure) and when my
>wife (god I like saying that) hinted about the possibility of us
>getting married they became irate. They threatened to take away her
>car and her horse and make her life difficult in any way they could if
>she went through with it. They don't realize we are already married
>and they have refused to speak with me on the matter. I don't really
>understand what the source of the problem is as they aren't religious
>and they aren't losing any tax benefits (my wife has been legally
>divorced from her parents for a couple of years now, they are a little
>crazy as evidenced by their current behavior).
I say if you are both adults, stand up and be a man and a woman and
not acting like kiddies and just tell them.
Loev,
Ms Poopie Pnats
Charles
in. Laws vary from strictly private to open to the public.
Joe Pucillo
> my wife has been legally
> divorced from her parents for a couple of years now,
Yeah, but they hold title to her car and horse.
Yeah, and you're not a troll...
--
Joe Pucillo
Baltimore, Maryland USA
To reply by email, please remove the .xx from the address.
John
Perhaps I should make the situation a little clearer. My wife and I
were married last Sunday (01/06/02) in a small ceremony with our close
friends (one acting as a pastor) and my parents, her parents did not
attend. Her parents have some issue with marriage that they have
never been able to fully explain to me and don't attend wedding
ceremonies. They are also belligerent, rude, and offensive and would
certainly have invaded the ceremony had we told them it was taking
place. We have been thinking about marriage for some time now and my
parents were taking a rare trip to the California (they live in
Florida) and we decided to surprise them with a wedding.
Now we are trying to gradually introduce our marriage to my wife's
parents but they have responded rather venomously. My wife suggested
that we were thinking of getting married and she responded that she
thought it was a very bad idea (note: they are fine with our
relationship and likes me well enough and would perfectly content for
us to spend the rest of our lives together, she just doesn't think we
should get married). When my wife said she really wanted to do this
they threatened to take away my wife's car, her horse, cut off all
contact with her, and otherwise inconvenience her. Tempers may have
flared and words were exchanged. And as a result they intend to
frequently check for evidence of a marriage at the County Clerk's
Office.
Which raises my previous question: How confidential are Confidential
Marriage Licenses? Will she be able to determine that we have been
married? For instance could you tell that a Marriage License had been
filled out but not get the particulars?
I fully intend to explain the truth to my wife's parents. But I would
prefer to do so after temper's have calmed and people are thinking
more clearly and if necessary after my wife has had here car returned
to her, her horse returned to her and in other ways protect herself
from her parents retribution. I may not like her parents but I would
prefer not to unnecessarily alienate them.
And if it is warranted I will not tell them. Why should I care if
they believe we are married our think we are just living together?
Marriage isn't some kind of neon sign that is a great deal of trouble
to keep unnoticed. If they can't find out through our Marriage
License than the only other way they might find out is if we got
divorced which I don't think is going to happen. But was interesting
enough to ask my second question about.
Thank you again for any assistance you are able to provide.
te_m...@yahoo.com (John) wrote in message news:<b067528f.02011...@posting.google.com>...
> My long time girlfriend an I were married last Sunday (Yipee!) but a
> bit of a problem has arisen. Her parents have some irrational problem
> with our marriage (they seem perfectly content for use to live
> together and are otherwise [. . .] that could ever happen she probably wouldn't be so
Saber
<In addendum to the first post.....I fully intend to explain the truth to my
wife's parents. But I would prefer to do so after temper's have calmed and
people are thinking more clearly and if necessary after my wife has had here
car returned to her, her horse returned to her and in other ways protect
herself from her parents retribution. I may not like her parents but I
would prefer not to unnecessarily alienate them.>
ok im confused, so please clarify some things for me.
1) you stated that your wife divorced her parents several years back.
2) they have provided her with a car as a gift
3) they have now taken the car back because they dont want you two married,
but are fine with yall living together
4) your now PILs are going to be searching marriage license applications to
find out if/when yall get married.
5) you want to get the car back before the PILs find out yall are married so
that they cant take the car again in case they do disown their daughter.
If i have the above 5 facts correct, then here are my comments on them.
1) if your wife legally divorced [also called becoming emancipated from] her
parents....this means she appearantly showed the courts that she was mature
enough to care for herself and provide herself with a living, therefore go
buy another car.
1a) if the car your PILs gave your wife has the title in her name, go get
the car from the PILs house as there is nothing they can do legally [ie they
cant hold the car to force a divorce] If its locked inside a garage, go to
the cop shop, get an officer to go with you, and take the title along so the
office can see the title is indeed in your wife's name.
2) if the car is in their name, there's nothing you can do to prevent them
from taking it again, so refer back to my response #1.
3) if its a confidential marriage license, while has already been filed,
then your PILs should not be able to find out anything about it,
confidential laws and all that yanno. however there is always room for
human error within the clerks dept where it was filed, in which case you
could decide to sue the county clerk's office in which it was filed for
disclosure of confidential information.
now i have a question.......how old is your wife, and what are the laws in
[im assuming you live in California since you said "We have been thinking
about marriage for some time now and my parents were taking a rare trip to
the California (they live in Florida) and we decided to surprise them with a
wedding."] California regarding the legal age of adulthood? If your wife is
over the age of 18 there's nothing your PILs can do against you or her
[statutory rape claims]. If your wife is under the age of 18 however, and is
not legally [court recognized] emancipated from her parents, then you could
be looking at some serious legal problems should her parents to go that
route.
Ms Pooply Wooply Pants
>In addendum to the first post.
>
How old are you and your wife?
wordsmith
<snip> It's my understanding that
> because of the Confidential Marriage License nobody can get access to
> our marriage record but will they be able to see that one exists? And
> how secure are those documents really, I mean will they give it out
> even if they aren't technically supposed to?
John, I was married in California under a confidential marriage
license. Later on, I had to get a certified copy of the marriage
certificate. In order to do that, I had to provide my name, my
husband's name, date and place of marriage, and get the statement
notarized. At no time did the clerk's office actually say they had the
marriage certificate on file (although, since it was my own marriage,
I knew it was there); they only said that if it were there, with my
$15 and the notarized statement, they would send me a copy, which they
did.
Also, my name did not appear on a microfiche of the California
Marriage Index that I viewed at the LA County Archives in Norwalk.
Hope this helps,
Ellie
Callai
"John" <te_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067528f.0201...@posting.google.com...
> In addendum to the first post.
>
> Perhaps I should make the situation a little clearer. My wife and I
> were married last Sunday (01/06/02) in a small ceremony with our close
> friends (one acting as a pastor) and my parents, her parents did not
> attend. Her parents have some issue with marriage that they have
> never been able to fully explain to me and don't attend wedding
> ceremonies. They are also belligerent, rude, and offensive and would
> certainly have invaded the ceremony had we told them it was taking
> place. We have been thinking about marriage for some time now and my
> parents were taking a rare trip to the California (they live in
> Florida) and we decided to surprise them with a wedding.
>
> Now we are trying to gradually introduce our marriage to my wife's
> parents but they have responded rather venomously. My wife suggested
> that we were thinking of getting married and she responded that she
> thought it was a very bad idea (note: they are fine with our
> relationship and likes me well enough and would perfectly content for
> us to spend the rest of our lives together, she just doesn't think we
> should get married). When my wife said she really wanted to do this
> they threatened to take away my wife's car, her horse, cut off all
> contact with her, and otherwise inconvenience her.
Eh?!!
Confidential marriage licences?
Ah, I think I understand. This is really about *money*, isn't it? (In the
unlikely event you aren't a troll.)
Both of you grow backbones, tell her parents you are married and give the
car and the horse back at the same time. Then work to save up enough money
so you don't need gifts that come with strings attached from her parents.
Callai
John
>
> 1) you stated that your wife divorced her parents several years back.
Correct, they are still on somewhat amiable terms (well, they were
before this)
> 2) they have provided her with a car as a gift
No, she paid for the car and it is "hers." Her parents have the title
and everything is under their name. This was done because my wife has
had some difficulty getting insurance. She has been in a couple of
accidents, her cars been vandalized a couple of times, etc. and her
coverage was canceled so she transfered the car to her parents so
their insurance would cover it.
> 3) they have now taken the car back because they don't want you two married,
> but are fine with yall living together
They have not taken back the car, they have only threatened to do so
if they think we are attempting to get married. They won't be able to
check until Monday since the office is closed on the weekends.
> 4) your now PILs are going to be searching marriage license applications to
> find out if/when yall get married.
Yes,, though even the existence of a marriage license would upset
them.
> 5) you want to get the car back before the PILs find out yall are married so
> that they cant take the car again in case they do disown their daughter.
Yes, we want the car transfered back to my wife (she got some car
insurance recently) to insulate us from their retribution.
> If i have the above 5 facts correct, then here are my comments on them.
> 3) if its a confidential marriage license, while has already been filed,
> then your PILs should not be able to find out anything about it,
> confidential laws and all that yanno. however there is always room for
> human error within the clerks dept where it was filed, in which case you
> could decide to sue the county clerk's office in which it was filed for
> disclosure of confidential information.
That is what I am hoping though I doubt suing them would be
cost-effective
(though it would certainly be pleasing).
> now i have a question.......how old is your wife, and what are the laws in
> [im assuming you live in California since you said "We have been thinking
> about marriage for some time now and my parents were taking a rare trip to
> the California (they live in Florida) and we decided to surprise them with a
> wedding."] California regarding the legal age of adulthood? If your wife is
> over the age of 18 there's nothing your PILs can do against you or her
> [statutory rape claims]. If your wife is under the age of 18 however, and is
> not legally [court recognized] emancipated from her parents, then you could
> be looking at some serious legal problems should her parents to go that
> route.
I am 23 and my wife is 21. Their isn't much her parents can do to
us legally but that certainly doesn't mean that can't make a nuisance
of
themselves.
I would like to maintain an amiable relationship with her parents and
I have
a much better chance of doing so if I can convince them over a longer
period
of time.
Denise F. Hayden
adults so why let her parents dictate the life you live? Seems pretty odd to
me. Something here doesn't add up to me.
Denise
"John" <te_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067528f.02011...@posting.google.com...
Roger (Rog')
damages in the amount of its value. Same for the horse.
She might even win, IF 1. she can prove that she actually
paid for the car, and 2. their holding title was "in trust" for
her convenience only.
==Rog'==
"JWB" <jwbscotchremov...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uqp08.74738$bZ5.12...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> "John" <te_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b067528f.02011...@posting.google.com...
>
> *snip*
>
> > No, she paid for the car and it is "hers." Her parents have the title
> > and everything is under their name. This was done because my wife has
> > had some difficulty getting insurance. She has been in a couple of
> > accidents, her cars been vandalized a couple of times, etc. and her
> > coverage was canceled so she transfered the car to her parents so
> > their insurance would cover it.
>
> Might be tough to get it back. I mean, legally, they *own* the car.
>
> Tell em you're married. If they take the car away, get another one. But
> living scared of them, over a friggen car, is not worth it.
>
> JWB
>
>
>
>
Nick & Lis
> I have
> a much better chance of doing so if I can convince them over a longer
> period
> of time.
Seems to me, even if you are able to convince them over the next 20 years
that you two getting married is an OK idea, when they finally give you their
blessing and say 'so kids, lets organise this whole wedding thing', and you
say 'well, actually...... we did it all 20 years ago', they are going to
thoroughly pissed off.
Pull your finger out, tell them now, stand up for yourselves, and perhaps
they won't spend the rest of their lives making 'a nuisance
of
themselves'.
Lis
02/02/02
Tom of Bunyon
answers.
"Roger (Rog')" <afn04024...@afn.org> wrote in message
news:j3q08.22$Xc.24...@news2.randori.com...
Saber
this)>
appearantly something is screwed up in the relationship between your wife
and her parents, so i would advise going tomorrow to have the title
transferred back into her name, or better still buy a new car, and tell the
parents/PILs to fuck off.
His Jadedness
>adults so why let her parents dictate the life you live? Seems pretty odd to
>me. Something here doesn't add up to me.
>
>Denise
I agree. If the girl paid for the car she should demand it be transferred back
to her or tell her parents to decide which is more important to them, therir
daughter and possible grandchildren or a car- their choice. She should make it
*VERY* clear she will brook no interference from them or she will will cut them
from her life forever- and sue if they decide to cause trouble.
And then be prepared to live with the choice they make.
--
His Jadednes, Andy- The Armchair Genealogist, OK(jmh)
Un-Official TMG Wishlist Forum: http://members5.boardhost.com/ah3rd/
"Death to the very IDEA of terrorism!"
Ms Pooply Wooply Pants
Are her parints nuts or sumting? Wat rong wit dem?
Loev,
Ms Poopie Pnats
Chuck Wolfram
> over the age of 18 there's nothing your PILs can do against you or her
> [statutory rape claims]. If your wife is under the age of 18 however, and
is
> not legally [court recognized] emancipated from her parents, then you
could
> be looking at some serious legal problems should her parents to go that
> route.
>
every state) provides that a man cannot, by defination, commit statutory
rape on his wife. She would be his wife. Sex is an essential part of the
contract.
Chuck Wolfram
Chuck Wolfram
> Eh?!!
>
> Confidential marriage licences?
>
This sounds as if you have some problem with Confidential Marriage
licenses. If that is correct, what is it?? So the couple, for whatever
reason they deem sufficient, don't want it to be public knowledge. Do you
have some problem with that????
Don't tell us you never heard of them before.
Chuck Wolfram
Callai
"Chuck Wolfram" <cwol...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jLQ08.4339$gT6.88...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Why not? It's the truth.
Not very many people *do* know the marriage licensing laws of countries or
states they *don't* live in.
Do you have your foot out of your mouth yet?
Unless you make a hobby of it (perhaps you're posting from alt.genealogy)
I'd be surprised if you knew the licensing options of the country I was
married in or the country I live in without looking them up. FYI, where I
live, aside from state agencies specified by regulations, marriage records
are not available to people other than the parties, children of the marriage
or children of the bride, unless the marriage is over 60 years old.
Callai
beck
>> Don't tell us you never heard of them before.
>
>Why not? It's the truth.
FWIW, I've never heard of confidential marriage licenses before either
Callai.
> FYI, where I
>live, aside from state agencies specified by regulations, marriage records
>are not available to people other than the parties, children of the marriage
>or children of the bride, unless the marriage is over 60 years old.
Where I live all marriage records are public information. On top of that
everyone who applies for a marriage license gets their name put in the
local papers along with how many times they're been married before.
beck
vlh
>> 1) you stated that your wife divorced her parents several years back.
>
>Correct, they are still on somewhat amiable terms (well, they were
>before this)
Did she just turn 18 (or whatever legal age in your state) or did she
actually go through a legal process of gaining her own majority?
There's a huge difference.
>No, she paid for the car and it is "hers." Her parents have the title
>and everything is under their name. This was done because my wife has
>had some difficulty getting insurance. She has been in a couple of
>accidents, her cars been vandalized a couple of times, etc. and her
>coverage was canceled so she transfered the car to her parents so
>their insurance would cover it.
Who will wind up owning the car is a guess if you plan to take it to
court. But I wouldn't worry about it. The car seems like the least
of your problems.
>They have not taken back the car, they have only threatened to do so
>if they think we are attempting to get married. They won't be able to
>check until Monday since the office is closed on the weekends.
People were present and you and your wife have told people (you posted
it on the Internet) so sooner or later they will find out. How they
find out is up to you. Right now they can find out from you or they
can find out that you lied to them. It's up to you.
>> 4) your now PILs are going to be searching marriage license applications to
>> find out if/when yall get married.
>
>Yes,, though even the existence of a marriage license would upset
>them.
It seems like it would have been better if the two of you had played
it cool until the car was in your wife's name and the horse was in
your possession. What's your problem? You knew going in this would
upset them and threaten your wife keeping her car and her horse yet
you got married anyway. You walked in this mess with your eyes wide
open and are trying to "fix" it now.
My point is you were told exactly what would happen if you got married
and from what you say you think they will live up to what they
threatened and yet you did exactly what would cause this negative
reaction you are afraid of. You are here in part because you chose to
be here.
My best advice is to tell them up front and ride out the storm. You
may lose the car and horse, but long-term lying to parents isn't a
good thing. It will put you and your wife's honestly and character
into doubt.
>Yes, we want the car transfered back to my wife (she got some car
>insurance recently) to insulate us from their retribution.
BUT why didn't you do that BEFORE getting married? I have a saying
that I try to remember as I go through life - "Your life is the
product of your past decisions!" This is why taking the time to
planning things out ahead of time and to weigh the pros and cons is so
vital in life.
>I am 23 and my wife is 21.
That's really young to get married. Are you even out of college yet?
>I would like to maintain an amiable relationship with her parents and
>I have a much better chance of doing so if I can convince them over
>a longer period of time.
That sounds good, but I wonder just how true it really is. They were
adamant that you not get married now and you immediately turned around
and did just that. Why was it so important for you to get married
NOW? Was it because they told you not to?
~~You can't fix what's wrong if you refuse to admit your mistakes.~~
She who would like to be obeyed once every Preston Guild
Chuck Wolfram of Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com uttered
>Even if this were the case, the Common Law (and, I *presume*, the law in
>every state) provides that a man cannot, by defination, commit statutory
>rape on his wife. She would be his wife. Sex is an essential part of the
>contract.
Where are you living? Outer Mongolia!?!? I'm no legal expert but I do know for
certain that in the UK, what you just said is a load of sexist b****cks.
Loretta Bobbit rules!
--
AJH
still pretty busy but maintaining
beck <pauve...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c443c65....@news.msy.bellsouth.net...
Where I live marriage records are also public information, and marriage
license applicants also get their name put in the local paper - but not how
many times they've been married - instead of that they get their AGE put in
the paper too!
S.B.
Carole Allen
<cwol...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>Even if this were the case, the Common Law (and, I *presume*, the law in
>every state) provides that a man cannot, by defination, commit statutory
>rape on his wife. She would be his wife. Sex is an essential part of the
>contract.
>
>Chuck Wolfram
>
Actually, a husband can be charged and convicted of with rape upona
spouse, but STATUTORY rape applies to the act being committed against
someone not of legal age...depends on the state, can be 16, 18....
And a female can be charged with it also if it involves an underage
male. (Remember Mary Kay LeTorneau?)
Lynda Morris
notice the word "statutory". there is no statute that expresses that
a wife is raped during consensual sex. (there is a statute that says
a man rapes a child during consensual sex because children don't know
what they're consenting to - ie statutory rape)
this is not to say that a man cannot rape his wife, he just can't be
[wouldn't normally be] convicted of _statutory_ rape.
>
> Loretta Bobbit rules!
loretta?
oiy
L.
> --
>
> AJH
Rinney
>
> That's really young to get married. Are you even out of college yet?
My god that is so narrow-minded. How can you be so irrational. How do you
know they went to college? I have no idea what it's like in the states, but
in Australia many young people are choosing not to attend university for
fear of ending up 22 and out of work, and further to that, I was married at
21, with a degree and another one on the way, whilst working two jobs.
Do I sound too young to get married? I'm out of college, does that make a
difference? Please don't look down on people because they choose to get
married young. Age has nothing to do with it, maturity does, and you don't
sound too mature if you can't understand someone getting married at 21 and
23, and that they should still be in college.
If I find my soulmate and the man I want to marry when I'm 18, why shouldn't
I marry him then? Are you any more mature at a later age? Personally I feel
that most young people who choose not to go to college are more mature than
those who do, and end up partying for a few years. Please keep your opinions
about peoples maturity to yourself until you can prove yours.
Corinne
ms_cal
"JWB" <jwb3333remove...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:x8718.82335$bZ5.15...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> "Rinney" <cori...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:sS618.3973$N31.1...@ozemail.com.au...
>
> > If I find my soulmate and the man I want to marry when I'm 18, why
> shouldn't
> > I marry him then? Are you any more mature at a later age?
>
>
> The only people that ask questions like this are young people who haven't
> experienced getting older and the maturity that comes with it. Ask 18 y/o's
> if they think an average 30 year old is more mature than they are, and many
> will say "no". But ask 30 y/o's the same question (in other words, asking
> someone who's experienced BOTH), and 99 out of 100 will say the 30 y/o is
> more mature.
>
> But, that being said, if you (or the other poster, or any other young
> person) wants to marry, go ahead and marry. Don't ever let anyone else
> dictate your life. However, if you have to ask for advice on whether to
> marry, or if you have the slightest doubt, then don't.
>
> JWB
And if you are still afraid of what mommy or daddy might do when they find out
you're married, then you're not ready. Period.
Cal~
Jeanne Congdon
out
> you're married, then you're not ready. Period.
>
> Cal~
AMEN!
Jeanne
Tom of Bunyon
news:L0NldAAw...@ntlworld.com...
It may be sexist, but most of the states in the US hold to this standard.
Tom of Bunyon
news:3C44E5A7...@hotmail.com...
>
>
> She who would like to be obeyed once every Preston Guild wrote:
> >
> > In article <IAQ08.4335$gB6.87...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>,
> > Chuck Wolfram of Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com uttered
> > >Even if this were the case, the Common Law (and, I *presume*, the law
in
> > >every state) provides that a man cannot, by defination, commit
statutory
> > >rape on his wife. She would be his wife. Sex is an essential part of
the
> > >contract.
> >
> > Where are you living? Outer Mongolia!?!? I'm no legal expert but I do
know for
> > certain that in the UK, what you just said is a load of sexist b****cks.
>
> notice the word "statutory". there is no statute that expresses that
> a wife is raped during consensual sex. (there is a statute that says
> a man rapes a child during consensual sex because children don't know
> what they're consenting to - ie statutory rape)
As an addition to this, Georgia and Florida hold that sex with a drunken
woman is statutory rape.
vlh
wrote:
>> >I am 23 and my wife is 21.
>>
>> That's really young to get married. Are you even out of college yet?
>
>My god that is so narrow-minded. How can you be so irrational.
Irrational? A college education is important in this day and age.
Those in the U.S. who go to college usually wind up better off than
those who don't. That is neither narrow minded or irrational. Just a
fact. The question I would have is why marry young at all? There's a
lot of living to do and the average 20 year old will have 50 - 70
years ahead of them. Waiting a few years won't hurt anyone and it
could make the difference between a life-long marriage and a divorce.
And if you are a young woman today I think a career is vital. What
happen if there is a divorce, spouse dies leaving you with children,
he becomes disabled, etc.?
>How do you
>know they went to college? I have no idea what it's like in the states, but
>in Australia many young people are choosing not to attend university for
>fear of ending up 22 and out of work, and further to that, I was married at
>21, with a degree and another one on the way, whilst working two jobs.
Funny isn't it, that you are complaining about what you yourself chose
to do?
>Do I sound too young to get married? I'm out of college, does that make a
>difference? Please don't look down on people because they choose to get
>married young. Age has nothing to do with it, maturity does, and you don't
>sound too mature if you can't understand someone getting married at 21 and
>23, and that they should still be in college.
Why do you choose to attack me personally and insult me? I haven't
done that to you? Odd that YOU would accuse me of being immature when
you are the one calling names and insulting. Do you think that is a
sign of mature behavior?
What you may not realize is people who marry young have a poorer
chance of staying married. Those are statistics here in the States.
>If I find my soulmate and the man I want to marry when I'm 18, why shouldn't
>I marry him then?
Soulmate! LOL! Marriage takes a lot more than some gushy idea of a
soulmate.
>Are you any more mature at a later age?
Definately. Your perspective changes as you grow older because you
have more and more life experiences to draw from.
>Personally I feel
>that most young people who choose not to go to college are more mature than
>those who do, and end up partying for a few years.
That's your view. Most of the people I know who have went to college
are in the careers they choose and are doing quite well. A few are
starting out in different fields. But those who haven't went to
college are almost all getting paid less and/or working longer hours
to get the same pay.
>Please keep your opinions
>about peoples maturity to yourself until you can prove yours.
You have definately proved who you are. I never attacked you
personally or called you names, did I? Why do you think it's
appropriate for you to attack me personally? Rather childish
behavior, isn't it?
vlh
wrote:
>And if you are still afraid of what mommy or daddy might do when they find out
>you're married, then you're not ready. Period.
Well put!
Tom of Bunyon
news:MMR08.1042$gf1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Chuck Wolfram" <cwol...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:jLQ08.4339$gT6.88...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > > Eh?!!
> > >
> > > Confidential marriage licences?
> > >
> > This sounds as if you have some problem with Confidential Marriage
> > licenses. If that is correct, what is it?? So the couple, for whatever
> > reason they deem sufficient, don't want it to be public knowledge. Do
you
> > have some problem with that????
> > Don't tell us you never heard of them before.
>
> Why not? It's the truth.
>
> Not very many people *do* know the marriage licensing laws of countries or
> states they *don't* live in.
It occurs to me that if the spouse is underage (albeit emancipated) that
they can discover if they are married if thet charge statutory rape (in
which case the couplae *has* to provide proof-of-marriage to fend off the
charge). A bit of skulduggery, but, hey, I'm from Chicago - I think in a
skulduggerous manner all the time.
MandaBee
year.
The way I see it, I have found the man I want to spend the rest of my life
with, we both want to be married so we can carry on and start to build a
life togther in a happily married environment.
My Fiance is 23 also.
If society thinks we are too young to be married, so be it! Who are we here
to please? We both know what we want in life so we are going for it! Age is
really no barrier when it comes to love.
Regards
~MandaBee~
"Rinney" <cori...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:sS618.3973$N31.1...@ozemail.com.au...
ms_cal
21 & 22, and we said the EXACT same thing you two are saying, to everyone who
tried to talk sense into us........ and here I sit.... after a 20 year marriage,
alone, awake at 1:21am, reading NG's while he sleeps in the arms of his former
mistress.....
Uh huh. soulmate indeed.....
Cal~
"MandaBee" <ama...@blackwaterpcyc.aunz.com> wrote in message
news:10111586...@sunshine.big.net.au...
Liz
> >Personally I feel
> >that most young people who choose not to go to college are more mature than
> >those who do, and end up partying for a few years.
>
> That's your view. Most of the people I know who have went to college
> are in the careers they choose and are doing quite well. A few are
> starting out in different fields. But those who haven't went to
> college are almost all getting paid less and/or working longer hours
> to get the same pay.
In a spirit of genuine curiosity .... has a person who says 'have went'
and 'haven't went' actually been to college?
Liz (Greenwich UK)
Roger (Rog')
happily ever after, do you?
At your age, I had an infinite life ahead of me, cruelty was something
that other people suffered, and I knew everything I need to know
about anything important.
In time, you may come to realize that life is not infinite, suufer cruelty,
and accept that you know very little about everything. If you're lucky,
you may even find wisdom.
If only I knew then what I know now. As the saying goes, "youth is
wasted on the young."
--
===Roger===
"MandaBee" <ama...@blackwaterpcyc.aunz.com> wrote:
I too am 21 and to be married June of this year.
The way I see it, I have found the man I want to spend the rest of my life
with, we both want to be married so we can carry on and start to build a
life togther in a happily married environment.
My Fiance is 23 also.
If society thinks we are too young to be married, so be it! Who are we here
to please? We both know what we want in life so we are going for it! Age is
really no barrier when it comes to love.
Regards
~MandaBee~
> "Rinney" <cori...@ozemail.com.au> wrote...
Helen Castle
opportunity of earning a large debt for the privilege. I think $30,000
would be an easy figure to attain for an average uni student. Then you have
the option of getting an advance on your study allowance, if you qualify,
and having to pay that back in full. The option being, if you qualify, do
you want $7000 per year in fortnightly instalments or $14,000 that you have
to repay in full at a later stage of your life. To qualify you generally
have to be near the povertyline or have parents who earn virtually nothing.
A $50,000 debt as you come out of uni is not unheard of and interest is
added at the CPI rate (I think)
Of course if you have the money to pay upfront that's fine but most people
who have the money up front have parents and means to disqualify them from
any study allowance. You dont have to repay it until your income hits a
certain level and in between the interest is added - so for a 3 year course
you have an impact on your life for probably 10-12 years after you graduate.
Graduates wages are not that great and you work for peanuts and pay off your
debt so that by the time you are 30 you may just see the way clear to marry
and have children some time later.
Having chosen not to go down that path due to family commitments and the
need to live I cant say the figures are accurate but the idea is about
right.
--
Helen Castle
have a look at my rellie's at:
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hcastle/
ICQ 3184996
Penrith Dispensary Register
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jmalloy
Miscellaneous Newspaper Transcripts
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hcastle
Happy to share my AVRI's and NSW BDM's
email me for lookups
For the discussion of Australia and New Zealand genealogy. The oldest and
most extensive mailing list for the region.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/GEN
"vlh" <I_dont.w...@junk.mail> wrote in message
news:aq3a4ug5qksuhq0hn...@4ax.com...
Ms Pooply Wooply Pants
wrote:
>> >I am 23 and my wife is 21.
>>
>> That's really young to get married. Are you even out of college yet?
>
>My god that is so narrow-minded. How can you be so irrational. How do you
>know they went to college? I have no idea what it's like in the states, but
>in Australia many young people are choosing not to attend university for
>fear of ending up 22 and out of work, and further to that, I was married at
>21, with a degree and another one on the way, whilst working two jobs.
>
>Do I sound too young to get married? I'm out of college, does that make a
>difference? Please don't look down on people because they choose to get
>married young. Age has nothing to do with it, maturity does, and you don't
>sound too mature if you can't understand someone getting married at 21 and
>23, and that they should still be in college.
>
>If I find my soulmate and the man I want to marry when I'm 18, why shouldn't
>I marry him then?
Why should you marry him at the age of 18? what is the rush?
> Are you any more mature at a later age?
Of course you are more mature at a later age.
Loev,
Ms Poopie Pnats
PS Just becawse I am neerle 40 yeers olde and calle maseff Poopie
Pnats, doesn't meen I am immature. ;-)
Callai
"ms_cal" <ms_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:F2918.35266$Vz3.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Maybe I am being too cynical given my situation, but my ex and I were
married at
> 21 & 22, and we said the EXACT same thing you two are saying, to everyone
who
> tried to talk sense into us........ and here I sit.... after a 20 year
marriage,
> alone, awake at 1:21am, reading NG's while he sleeps in the arms of his
former
> mistress.....
Brickbats to your ex, Cal!
Our situation is the same as to ages and length of marriage but we got a new
baby for our 20th anniversary rather than a mistress. Our families were
pleased for us when we announced our engagment, which might be a good sign,
in hindsight. My parents liked my husband and his were always very good to
me.
Early marriages can go either way but I always say we have been lucky and
we'll be advising our children to wait and look around a bit before settling
down. I don't know if they'll listen or even if it would help but with 43%
of marriages here expected to fail there's good reason to be cautious about
throwing themselves into matrimony too young.
Callai
Corolla Guy
Ms Pooply Wooply Pants wrote:
Loev,
Ms Poopie Pnats
PS Just becawse I am neerle 40 yeers olde and calle maseff Poopie
Pnats, doesn't meen I am immature. ;-)
Ummmm, yes it does. Not the name though, it's the problem you have with
your keyboard.
vlh
I went for a few years but did not graduate and I am able to compare
the lives of those of us who did finish college, who never finished,
and those who never went.
vlh
<ama...@blackwaterpcyc.aunz.com> wrote:
>I totally agree with you Corinne. I too am 21 and to be married June of this
>year.
I hope your marriage lasts, but you are walking into marriage with the
odds stacked AGAINST you just because of your age.
>The way I see it, I have found the man I want to spend the rest of my life
>with, we both want to be married so we can carry on and start to build a
>life togther in a happily married environment.
Do you both have established careers with good opportunities for the
future? And neither of you lives at home or is aided financially by
parents, do you?
>My Fiance is 23 also.
>
>If society thinks we are too young to be married, so be it! Who are we here
>to please? We both know what we want in life so we are going for it! Age is
>really no barrier when it comes to love.
There is simply no way you could know what you will wind up with in
life in your early 20s. You just don't have enough experience.
ms_cal
"vlh" <I_dont.w...@junk.mail> wrote in message
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:06:15 +1000, "MandaBee"
> <ama...@blackwaterpcyc.aunz.com> wrote:
>
> >I totally agree with you Corinne. I too am 21 and to be married June of this
> >year.
>
> I hope your marriage lasts, but you are walking into marriage with the
> odds stacked AGAINST you just because of your age.
>
Does anyone have links to statistics showing the average length of a marriage in
relation to the age of the bride and groom?
I wonder if it would show that the younger you marry, the more likely you are to
divorce. That is what I see all around me in my personal life, and that of my
friends/acquaintances. But I'd be curious to see how that really plays out
overall.
Everyone of the early married (less than age 24/25) are divorced. The people I
know who waited until late 20's to early thirties for the most part still are
married. I actually can't currently think of one F/A who's been divorced that
waited till past the age of 25. (Granted this is a small cross-section of
people.)
Cal~
Jessica A.
marriage in
> relation to the age of the bride and groom?
>
> I wonder if it would show that the younger you marry, the more likely you
are to
> divorce. That is what I see all around me in my personal life, and that
of my
> friends/acquaintances. But I'd be curious to see how that really plays
out
> overall.
>
> Everyone of the early married (less than age 24/25) are divorced. The
people I
> know who waited until late 20's to early thirties for the most part still
are
> married. I actually can't currently think of one F/A who's been divorced
that
> waited till past the age of 25. (Granted this is a small cross-section of
> people.)
>
> Cal~
Here's an article talking about this:
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.80368
Cindy Schott
advice and you get a lot of lectures. Best wishes to you and your new wife.
I know some times things are not always as easy and cut and dried as they
may seem to someone else.
Cindy
"John" <te_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067528f.02011...@posting.google.com...
> My long time girlfriend an I were married last Sunday (Yipee!) but a
> bit of a problem has arisen. Her parents have some irrational problem
> with our marriage (they seem perfectly content for use to live
> together and are otherwise amiable towards us, go figure) and when my
> wife (god I like saying that) hinted about the possibility of us
> getting married they became irate. They threatened to take away her
> car and her horse and make her life difficult in any way they could if
> she went through with it. They don't realize we are already married
> and they have refused to speak with me on the matter. I don't really
> understand what the source of the problem is as they aren't religious
> and they aren't losing any tax benefits (my wife has been legally
> divorced from her parents for a couple of years now, they are a little
> crazy as evidenced by their current behavior).
>
> We knew it would be a struggle and would like to introduce the matter
> to them gradually but they intend to go to the county clerks office
> and try to get info on the existence of our marriage. We were living
> together before the marriage and decided to get a Confidential
> Marriage License just to be discrete. It's my understanding that
> because of the Confidential Marriage License nobody can get access to
> our marriage record but will they be able to see that one exists? And
> how secure are those documents really, I mean will they give it out
> even if they aren't technically supposed to? If there is a good
> chance they will find out we would like to handle it ourselves before
> then (it's currently Saturday and the office doesn't open until
> Monday). We were hoping someone here could share their experience or
> insight into the matter.
>
> Thank you in advance for any assistance.
>
> Oh, and one more question. We fully intend to reveal our marriage to
> her parents but if they prove stubbornly and irrationally opposed it
> is not unfathomable that we will never reveal it to them. Everyone
> who knows we are married is quite discrete and understands our
> situation so I believe we could spend the rest of our lives together
> without them ever finding out. Now, I care very much for my new wife
> and she for me and we full intend to spend the rest of our lives
> together but we are both rational cautious people and are well aware
> of America's divorce statistics. If we should ever get divorced will
> that divorce be part of the public record and if so would there be a
> way to keep that private as well. As if her parents found out we were
> divorced it would obviously signify that we were once married. Of
> course by the time that could ever happen she probably wouldn't be so
> worried about the car and horse.
>
> Thanks again for any help you can provide.
dave...@spamcop.net
> Does anyone have links to statistics showing the average length of a marriage in
> relation to the age of the bride and groom?
Gee, that's a really good question. Another really good question is
this:
Would you people *please* take your argument *out* of alt.genealogy?
Thanks, and bye now,
Dave Hinz
(followups fixed)
Gordon Johnson
>vlh wrote:
>>
>> That's your view. Most of the people I know who have went to college
>> are in the careers they choose and are doing quite well. A few are
>> starting out in different fields. But those who haven't went to
>> college are almost all getting paid less and/or working longer hours
>> to get the same pay.
>
>In a spirit of genuine curiosity .... has a person who says 'have went'
>and 'haven't went' actually been to college?
>
>Liz (Greenwich UK)
>
** I think the phrase "went to College" indicates American education
and so you have to make allowances for the American language, which
has more or less abandoned the rules of English..
Gordon [Wick,UK]
Gordon Johnson's website:
<www.kinhelp.co.uk>
with genealogical help plus pre-1700 genealogical
indexes.
Gordon Johnson
wrote:
>Maybe I am being too cynical given my situation, but my ex and I were married at
>21 & 22, and we said the EXACT same thing you two are saying, to everyone who
>tried to talk sense into us........ and here I sit.... after a 20 year marriage,
>alone, awake at 1:21am, reading NG's while he sleeps in the arms of his former
>mistress.....
>
>Uh huh. soulmate indeed.....
>
>Cal~
*** Maturity does not neccessarily come with age, and successful
marriages are not age-related, they are people-related. Most marriages
of young couples that fail do so because the finances are not good
enough to cope with the normal stresses and strains of marriage, once
the initial "love conquers all" feeling meets the realities of life.
Having been married for over 30 years to the same lady, and gone
through everything from her post-natal depression to my wife's ME and
my own work-related depression [disappeared once I took early
retirement] and with our children married and settled, we are still
happy as a couple.
I was for years a self-opinionated and argumentative husband, but my
wife tolerated me until I learned better (partly through the candid
comments of my otherwise adoring daughter].
Marriage has to be worked at, to succeed, and support is need from
parents as well.
My daughter's first husband turned out to be the nasty failure that I
suspected, and when she said to me much later "Why didn't you tell me
what you really thought of him?" I replied "You were too besotted to
be ready to believe me, and I didn't want you to think I interfered
with your choice of partner."
We were simply there for her when she needed us, and all through the
divorce proceedings. Her second husband adores her and this should be
a lasting commitment I am sure.
So my general assessment is that provided neither is a "nasty piece of
work", any couple have a reasonable chance of happy marriage if the
surrounding circumstances don't impose too many strains.
End of sermon...
Gordon.
rangitotogirl
"Helen Castle" <hca...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:PPb18.4112$N31.1...@ozemail.com.au...
> Here in Australia if you go to university(college) you have a very good
> opportunity of earning a large debt for the privilege. I think $30,000
> would be an easy figure to attain for an average uni student. Then you
have
> the option of getting an advance on your study allowance, if you qualify,
> and having to pay that back in full. The option being, if you qualify, do
> you want $7000 per year in fortnightly instalments or $14,000 that you
have
> to repay in full at a later stage of your life. To qualify you generally
> have to be near the povertyline or have parents who earn virtually
nothing.
>
Yeah, but nobody said you had to study full time either. Sure, many courses
are full time but there are also a lot that can be taken by correspondence
as well. I went through uni without incurring any debt because I chose to
go part time and have never regretted it. My parents had always said they
would only support us up until the end of high school and if we chose to go
to uni we would have to pay for it ourselves. We also didn't qualify for
student allowances or any government assistance.
Sure, you can end up with a debt but there are also ways to avoid it.
Karlene Bradley
constructions. I am dismayed at some of the horrendous grammar and
syntax I hear, although I suspect it is not only Americans who are
guilty.
Karlene
Gordon Johnson wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:32:41 +0000, Liz <pan...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >vlh wrote:
> >>
> >> That's your view. Most of the people I know who have went to college
> >> are in the careers they choose and are doing quite well. A few are
> >> starting out in different fields. But those who haven't went to
> >> college are almost all getting paid less and/or working longer hours
> >> to get the same pay.
> >
> >In a spirit of genuine curiosity .... has a person who says 'have went'
> >and 'haven't went' actually been to college?
> >
> >Liz (Greenwich UK)
> >
> ** I think the phrase "went to College" indicates American education
> and so you have to make allowances for the American language, which
> has more or less abandoned the rules of English..
> Gordon [Wick,UK]
Rinney
> > opportunity of earning a large debt for the privilege. I think $30,000
> > would be an easy figure to attain for an average uni student. Then you
> have
> > the option of getting an advance on your study allowance, if you
qualify,
> > and having to pay that back in full. The option being, if you qualify,
do
> > you want $7000 per year in fortnightly instalments or $14,000 that you
> have
> > to repay in full at a later stage of your life. To qualify you
generally
> > have to be near the povertyline or have parents who earn virtually
> nothing.
> >
>
> Yeah, but nobody said you had to study full time either. Sure, many
courses
> are full time but there are also a lot that can be taken by correspondence
> as well. I went through uni without incurring any debt because I chose to
> go part time and have never regretted it. My parents had always said they
> would only support us up until the end of high school and if we chose to
go
> to uni we would have to pay for it ourselves. We also didn't qualify for
> student allowances or any government assistance.
Part-time and external courses are fine, but you still have to pay for them,
and the $3500 a semester part-time or external (which is what I'm paying
now) is a lot of money. I will say this, I got a degree, a very good
business degree, from a very respectable university, and twelve months
later, I'm still working the check-out at the local supermarket because
there are no jobs. If however, I had chosen not to go to university, I would
have 4 years experience working now, and a job. Instead I'm lucky if I work
4 hours a week, so I am again going to university to get a teaching degree.
Like I said, I didn't know about the US, but in Australia, a degree doesn't
necessarily equal a job, in fact, in most cases it equals the opposite.
Rinney
"vlh" <I_dont.w...@junk.mail> wrote in message
news:aq3a4ug5qksuhq0hn...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:56:39 +1000, "Rinney" <cori...@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >> >I am 23 and my wife is 21.
> >>
> >> That's really young to get married. Are you even out of college yet?
> >
> >My god that is so narrow-minded. How can you be so irrational.
>
> Irrational? A college education is important in this day and age.
> Those in the U.S. who go to college usually wind up better off than
> those who don't. That is neither narrow minded or irrational. Just a
> fact. The question I would have is why marry young at all? There's a
> lot of living to do and the average 20 year old will have 50 - 70
> years ahead of them. Waiting a few years won't hurt anyone and it
> could make the difference between a life-long marriage and a divorce.
Living, pray tell what living can you only do if single?
> And if you are a young woman today I think a career is vital. What
> happen if there is a divorce, spouse dies leaving you with children,
> he becomes disabled, etc.?
I have a degree, and no career, see my other post about this, working
towards another degree so I'll have one.
> >How do you
> >know they went to college? I have no idea what it's like in the states,
but
> >in Australia many young people are choosing not to attend university for
> >fear of ending up 22 and out of work, and further to that, I was married
at
> >21, with a degree and another one on the way, whilst working two jobs.
>
> Funny isn't it, that you are complaining about what you yourself chose
> to do?
Chosen to do because my parents insisted. They didn't care what we did after
we got a degree, as long as we got one. My older brother owns a clothing
shop with his partner, he did a mining engineering degree. My older sister
sells cars and works in clothing stores when she's in the country, and not
following her husband around the world. She did a marketing degree. I have a
business degree, and I work in the local supermarket.
But then I don't know why I'm telling you my life story, you already know
me, my family, my society, and my motivations, so I'll stop now.
> >Do I sound too young to get married? I'm out of college, does that make a
> >difference? Please don't look down on people because they choose to get
> >married young. Age has nothing to do with it, maturity does, and you
don't
> >sound too mature if you can't understand someone getting married at 21
and
> >23, and that they should still be in college.
>
> Why do you choose to attack me personally and insult me? I haven't
> done that to you? Odd that YOU would accuse me of being immature when
> you are the one calling names and insulting. Do you think that is a
> sign of mature behavior?
I think it's a sign of being a little more open minded about peoples life
choices. I guess it also comes from having "best" friends who only saw what
they wanted to, and how could I possibly drink. If I drink alcohol, I'll end
up like her mother who's an alcoholic. That's what always happens!
> What you may not realize is people who marry young have a poorer
> chance of staying married. Those are statistics here in the States.
The same statistics are here in Australia. But just because the statistics
say that I'll probably get divorced, doesn't mean I will. I believe I know
what makes a marriage work, and it's not age.
> >If I find my soulmate and the man I want to marry when I'm 18, why
shouldn't
> >I marry him then?
>
> Soulmate! LOL! Marriage takes a lot more than some gushy idea of a
> soulmate.
Gusy idea of a soulmate? Good grief. I won't even comment here.
> >Are you any more mature at a later age?
>
> Definately. Your perspective changes as you grow older because you
> have more and more life experiences to draw from.
Perhaps it's the amount of life experiences and no the age that then
determines that. Take a good friend of mine, 22 graduate, lives at home,
also no job, no life experiences to draw on. Me, 22, left home at 12 to live
with other relatives (due to family illness), moved in and looked after my
grandfater at 17 (after my mother died when I was 13, my grandmother when I
was 16) and then moved my grandfather into a nursing home when I was 18 as I
could no longer provide 24 hour medical care and work or study. Graduated at
20, and married at 21. Perhaps generally longer life means more life
experiences, but perhaps living means more life experiences, not being
older.
> >Personally I feel
> >that most young people who choose not to go to college are more mature
than
> >those who do, and end up partying for a few years.
>
> That's your view. Most of the people I know who have went to college
> are in the careers they choose and are doing quite well. A few are
> starting out in different fields. But those who haven't went to
> college are almost all getting paid less and/or working longer hours
> to get the same pay.
>
All my friends who went to university are unemployed, and all my friends who
didn't go to university have wonderful jobs. That's all I know.
> >Please keep your opinions
> >about peoples maturity to yourself until you can prove yours.
>
> You have definately proved who you are. I never attacked you
> personally or called you names, did I? Why do you think it's
> appropriate for you to attack me personally? Rather childish
> behavior, isn't it?
I don't think so, I attacked your opinions, you made me feel that you had a
right to look down on me and my life choices because you're older than I am.
Those feelings are ones that I fight against, and will continue to do so.
Corinne
Rinney
know what they want at a young age, others don't. Simple really
"Callai" <cal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5ce18.5508$gf1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Amy and Dave
degree and the experience. Let me tell you that around here, most people
want the experience. i got laid off on Sept. 11 and have been looking for
work ever since. These companies don't care that i have a degree. They keep
telling me that if I had more experience (in that field), they would hire me
in a heartbeat.
It all depends on the area you live in because my cousin lives in another
state where degrees are important and experience doesn't help much at all.
"Rinney" <cori...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:a%s18.4471$N31.2...@ozemail.com.au...
Helen Castle
semester for subjects?
Please share - I started a part time law degree - for which my employer
kindly paid the fees - but there was still a fee and 12 years of study in
front of me - I figured I would finish just at a time when my salary was the
maximum and if I was paying myself the contributions woudl have been
gi-normous.
I stopped studying as I found genealogy and other things to do.
--
Helen Castle
have a look at my rellie's at:
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hcastle/
ICQ 3184996
Penrith Dispensary Register
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jmalloy
Miscellaneous Newspaper Transcripts
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hcastle
Happy to share my AVRI's and NSW BDM's
email me for lookups
For the discussion of Australia and New Zealand genealogy. The oldest and
most extensive mailing list for the region.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/GEN
"rangitotogirl" <rangit...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:sHr18.46$bt4....@news02.tsnz.net...
Helen Castle
Dont daughters often look for men like their fathers?
--
Helen Castle
have a look at my rellie's at:
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hcastle/
ICQ 3184996
Penrith Dispensary Register
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jmalloy
Miscellaneous Newspaper Transcripts
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hcastle
Happy to share my AVRI's and NSW BDM's
email me for lookups
For the discussion of Australia and New Zealand genealogy. The oldest and
most extensive mailing list for the region.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/GEN
"Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c45a05b...@news.ifb.co.uk...
vlh
wrote:
>> >My god that is so narrow-minded. How can you be so irrational.
>>
>> Irrational? A college education is important in this day and age.
>> Those in the U.S. who go to college usually wind up better off than
>> those who don't. That is neither narrow minded or irrational. Just a
>> fact. The question I would have is why marry young at all? There's a
>> lot of living to do and the average 20 year old will have 50 - 70
>> years ahead of them. Waiting a few years won't hurt anyone and it
>> could make the difference between a life-long marriage and a divorce.
>
>Living, pray tell what living can you only do if single?
I never said to NEVER get married. Only that waiting until a little
later makes for better odds of staying together.
>> Funny isn't it, that you are complaining about what you yourself chose
>> to do?
>Chosen to do because my parents insisted.
Oh, give me a break. If you didn't want to get a degree you would of
quit.
>> Why do you choose to attack me personally and insult me? I haven't
>> done that to you? Odd that YOU would accuse me of being immature when
>> you are the one calling names and insulting. Do you think that is a
>> sign of mature behavior?
>
>I think it's a sign of being a little more open minded about peoples life
>choices.
You really believe that being rude and calling me names is a sign of
open-mindedness?
>> What you may not realize is people who marry young have a poorer
>> chance of staying married. Those are statistics here in the States.
>
>The same statistics are here in Australia. But just because the statistics
>say that I'll probably get divorced, doesn't mean I will. I believe I know
>what makes a marriage work, and it's not age.
How many people who are now divorced from their "true love" or
"soulmate" do you think have said those very words? Do you think
people who are now divorced all started out thinking it wouldn't work?
You're wrong, if you think that. Almost everyone goes into marriage
believing with all their heart it will work. BUT if you don't have
the life skills to MAKE it work, then all the hoping and love in the
world won't make it work.
>> >Please keep your opinions
>> >about peoples maturity to yourself until you can prove yours.
>>
>> You have definately proved who you are. I never attacked you
>> personally or called you names, did I? Why do you think it's
>> appropriate for you to attack me personally? Rather childish
>> behavior, isn't it?
>
>I don't think so, I attacked your opinions,
Not when your first words were insults about me and my age. AND my
first post wasn't even to you, now was it? AND your first words to me
were nothing more than a childish insult, "My god that is so
narrow-minded. How can you be so irrational." It's hard for you to
show how mature you are when acting like that.
>you made me feel that you had a
>right to look down on me
I didn't MAKE you feel anything. You CHOSE to feel however you felt
because you knew when you posted to me originally I was NOT talking
about you personally. Only about young people getting married
generally and specifically to the original poster.
> and my life choices because you're older than I am.
>Those feelings are ones that I fight against, and will continue to do so.
But those feelings are within you and something you need to deal with.
I certainly have no control over them. I wasn't even talking about
you or knew who you were when this all began. I was responding to
someone who asked for assistance and you jumped in with both feet.
vlh
wrote:
>If 43% of marriages fail, why are we getting married at all? Some people
>know what they want at a young age, others don't. Simple really
This is the point you still don't understand. Those marriage who fail
are very often the people who want to be married and have always
dreamed of being married and having a family. Knowing what you want
isn't the problem. Having the knowlege to get what you want, keep it,
and make it work for 60 years is the problem.
KDW
>state where degrees are important and >experience doesn't help much at all.
Which state is that? I want to move there because my two degrees (BA, MA) and
some work on my PhD seems worthless to employers. Its all about experience....
politicalthinker ;-)
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -Carl Sagan
She who would like to be obeyed once every Preston Guild
>
>In a spirit of genuine curiosity .... has a person who says 'have went'
>and 'haven't went' actually been to college?
>
Having the dubious honour of having taught in FE - it wouldn't surprise me in
the least.
--
AJH
She who would like to be obeyed once every Preston Guild
ms_cal of yeah RIIIGHT!! uttered
>
>Everyone of the early married (less than age 24/25) are divorced. The people I
>know who waited until late 20's to early thirties for the most part still are
>married. I actually can't currently think of one F/A who's been divorced that
>waited till past the age of 25. (Granted this is a small cross-section of
>people.)
My parents had their Golden wedding last year - half a century of Marital Blitz.
Now I know why, after 13 yrs of cohabitation (and two gorgeous kids) we
never got around to the 'legal' bit ... <G>
--
AJH
MandaBee
~*~*~*~
MandaBee
~*~*~*~
<-Out of my mind - Back in five->
"Helen Castle" <hca...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:92x18.4602$N31.2...@ozemail.com.au...
Singhals
Gordon Johnson wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:32:41 +0000, Liz <pan...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >vlh wrote:
> >>
> >> That's your view. Most of the people I know who have went to college
> >> are in the careers they choose and are doing quite well. A few are
> >> starting out in different fields. But those who haven't went to
> >> college are almost all getting paid less and/or working longer hours
> >> to get the same pay.
> >
> >In a spirit of genuine curiosity .... has a person who says 'have went'
> >and 'haven't went' actually been to college?
> >
> >Liz (Greenwich UK)
> >
> ** I think the phrase "went to College" indicates American education
> and so you have to make allowances for the American language, which
> has more or less abandoned the rules of English..
I grew up American, and have an American Education. "I have
went to College" is simply grammatically incorrect, no
matter which English-speaking country produced it.
"I went to College"
"I have gone to College"
"He has not gone to College."
Of course, if the original poster was under 25, it's
entirely possible he managed to get out of High School
without ever having had a grammar course. They are scarce on
the ground these days since it is believed they stifle
creativity. Interesting that Agatha Christie, Ngaio Marsh,
P.G. Wodehouse, F.Scott Fitzgerald, and J.D. Salinger
weren't stifled.
Cheryl (over 25 and survivor of 12 years of grammar courses)
readah
this simply to save time-- we didn't need to visit the county office in
person and our minister took care of the whole thing-- for an extra fee, of
course. Also, California no longer requires blood tests.
Rita
<ba...@psyber.com> wrote in message
news:Nvj18.101$8w2.16...@news2.randori.com...
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> I obtained a Confidential Marriage License in Calif. Reason for doing so
> is I hate needles and with this type of license, you aren't required to
> get a blood test.
>
> In Calif., the C.M.L's are only availble if a court order is obtained
> to subpoena the information.
>
> b.
>
Doll
married in CA and no blood tests were needed then.
Doll
--
"readah" <relu...@hotSPAMmail.com> wrote in
message
news:28N18.23879$Ig2.6...@news1.elcjn1.sdca.hom
e.com...
Helen Castle
married.
I have always wondered?
--
Helen Castle
have a look at my rellie's at:
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hcastle/
ICQ 3184996
Penrith Dispensary Register
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jmalloy
Miscellaneous Newspaper Transcripts
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hcastle
Happy to share my AVRI's and NSW BDM's
email me for lookups
For the discussion of Australia and New Zealand genealogy. The oldest and
most extensive mailing list for the region.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/GEN
Doll
"Helen Castle" <hca...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in
message
news:7wR18.5099$N31.2...@ozemail.com.au...
> Can you enlighten me why you have to have a
blood test in the US to get
> married.
>
> I have always wondered?
>
> --
>
> Helen Castle
> have a look at my rellie's at:
I think it's got something to do with the RH
factor in peoples blood..don't quote me on
that...unsure of why...my imagination leads me to
believe perhaps it's related to their future
offspring developing heathly??
Someone correct me if I'm wrong..
Doll
Chuck Wolfram
sense in today's world; the requirement is being dropped.
Chuck
"Helen Castle" <hca...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:7wR18.5099$N31.2...@ozemail.com.au...
Denise F. Hayden
syphillis is one but here at least in my State if you can prove you are
sterile you don't have to do it. You can also show proof of having been
vaccinated for Rubella or having had it and not be tested.
Denise
"Chuck Wolfram" <cwol...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:lcT18.20055$wh4.179...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Singhals
WHICH disease varies by year and state (g), but originally
it started out as an STD screen; if the Wasserman was
positive, you got treated, retested, and THEN were issued
the license. Today, other things are checked, not just
syphilis and gonorrhea -- HIV, herpes, etc. Blood typing
is sometimes an optional extra, but generally women get
typed with the first pregnancy anyway.
HTH
Cheryl
Kristen L Renneker
syphillis...that's the only test you're generally required to get. women are
urged to get a rubella screening because of the implications for pregnancy.
i'd have to look it up to see the historical significance of the syphillis
test...i think it was common at one point and it causes sterility among
other things.
"Doll" <ThisN...@popularhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oAS18.12$F95...@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
Ann
"Doll" <ThisN...@popularhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oAS18.12$F95...@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>
>
>
Actually, they are (were) testing for venereal disease (specifically
syphylis).
Ann, in PA where testing stopped a few years ago
>
>
>
>
>
Helen Castle
without it, one would find it a futile exercise these days.
My son is one example - his girlfriend is expecting our first grandchild in
April - having a test at this late stage would be a moot point
--
Helen Castle
have a look at my rellie's at:
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hcastle/
ICQ 3184996
Penrith Dispensary Register
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jmalloy
Miscellaneous Newspaper Transcripts
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hcastle
Happy to share my AVRI's and NSW BDM's
email me for lookups
For the discussion of Australia and New Zealand genealogy. The oldest and
most extensive mailing list for the region.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/AUS/GEN
"Ann" <amcm...@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:1_628.18535$F01.9...@nnrp1.ptd.net...
Carol L Kent
and so you have to make allowances for the American language, which
has more or less abandoned the rules of English..
Gordon Johnson's website:
Gordon, what a "low blow" for those of us who are of the English speaking
population... whether we speak the "Queen's English" or the American
version... most of us have not abandoned the rules of English... many just
simply never learned them. :)
Wouldn't the correct form then be: (correctly conjugated I believe)
I have been to college
I went to college
I go to college
Peace,
Carol Kent, not an English major... just a native speaker ;)
Ron Hoffman
supposedly for syphilis. I know, I checked. Now, who cares about that
nasty thing, it can be cured. To my knowledge, no one has changed the law
to screen for AIDS. They just keep plodding along.
What the heck has this to do with the reason I am in this newsgroup for
anyway? Sorry. Just couldn't resist adding to the backbround noise.
Ron
Gordon Johnson
wrote:
*** No, actually. The phrase would be different entirely.
In the UK it would probably be " I was at University", as College is
commonly considered to be either 2nd-rate (College of Commerce;
Technical College) or merely a college within a university!!
The grammar question was me cheekily adding in another jibe.... sorry.
:-(
Incidentally, I studied Librarianship at what was a College back then
but is part of a university now.....
Gordon.
KinHelp - Scottish Historical & Genealogical Services
Website: http://www.web-ecosse.com/genes/genes2.htm
Pre-1700 is our speciality.
KYWomn1963
it if I had the opportunity to do it all over again. I do wish you luck. I
made it 18 years before it fell apart. Maybe you two will be of the
minority who beats the odds.
Anyway...I would have told them up front. I told mine up front and they
weren't happy but at least I didn't have the added stress of "hiding" the
marriage on top of the natural stress of being newlyweds. Everyone who's
been there knows just how rough the first few years can be!
Another way of handling it, if you are totally against telling them and the
20 year thing happens....is to just re-affirm your vows at that time.
That's what we had planned to do...unfortunately, we didn't make it to our
20th.
I don't mean to offend but if you two are grown up enough to marry, then I
would think that you two are grown up enough to stand up to her parents.
What will happen when she gets pregnant?
As far as the car....chalk it up to a lesson bought and paid for. Get over
it. It's in their name and there's nothing you can do about it. If you can
get the parent's to sign it over...then it would be different.
Now, maybe...if she has all of her bank records for all of the car
payments.....then maybe you can fight legally from that stand point.
Just my thoughts on the subject....
KYWomn1963
"John" <te_m...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067528f.02011...@posting.google.com...
> My long time girlfriend an I were married last Sunday (Yipee!) but a
> bit of a problem has arisen. Her parents have some irrational problem
> with our marriage (they seem perfectly content for use to live
> together and are otherwise amiable towards us, go figure) and when my
> wife (god I like saying that) hinted about the possibility of us
> getting married they became irate. They threatened to take away her
> car and her horse and make her life difficult in any way they could if
> she went through with it. They don't realize we are already married
> and they have refused to speak with me on the matter. I don't really
> understand what the source of the problem is as they aren't religious
> and they aren't losing any tax benefits (my wife has been legally
> divorced from her parents for a couple of years now, they are a little
> crazy as evidenced by their current behavior).
>
> We knew it would be a struggle and would like to introduce the matter
> to them gradually but they intend to go to the county clerks office
> and try to get info on the existence of our marriage. We were living
> together before the marriage and decided to get a Confidential
> Marriage License just to be discrete. It's my understanding that
> because of the Confidential Marriage License nobody can get access to
> our marriage record but will they be able to see that one exists? And
> how secure are those documents really, I mean will they give it out
> even if they aren't technically supposed to? If there is a good
> chance they will find out we would like to handle it ourselves before
> then (it's currently Saturday and the office doesn't open until
> Monday). We were hoping someone here could share their experience or
> insight into the matter.
>
> Thank you in advance for any assistance.
>
> Oh, and one more question. We fully intend to reveal our marriage to
> her parents but if they prove stubbornly and irrationally opposed it
> is not unfathomable that we will never reveal it to them. Everyone
> who knows we are married is quite discrete and understands our
> situation so I believe we could spend the rest of our lives together
> without them ever finding out. Now, I care very much for my new wife
> and she for me and we full intend to spend the rest of our lives
> together but we are both rational cautious people and are well aware
> of America's divorce statistics. If we should ever get divorced will
> that divorce be part of the public record and if so would there be a
> way to keep that private as well. As if her parents found out we were
> divorced it would obviously signify that we were once married. Of
> course by the time that could ever happen she probably wouldn't be so
> worried about the car and horse.
>
> Thanks again for any help you can provide.
Larry
counseling!
I never heard of anything so bizarre.