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Message from discussion Voyage of the ship LYON OF DUBLIN, 1700 - "To save you from the press"
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Dexter Kenfield  
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 More options Sep 27 2012, 2:32 pm
Newsgroups: alt.genealogy, soc.genealogy.britain
From: Dexter Kenfield <dkenfi...@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:32:09 -0700
Local: Thurs, Sep 27 2012 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: Voyage of the ship LYON OF DUBLIN, 1700 - "To save you from the press"
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Been thinking about the bribe theory. Took another look at the accounts.

There are 16 crewmen with those entries. Some of them definitely are in
New York, because some of those men jumped ship there. I believe all of
the payments were in New York. That may be around half of the crew --
hard to be precise because so many were coming and going, jumping ship
and sometimes returning, or added along the way.

The entries are not individually dated, so I can't tell if they were on
or near the same date. Total amount was 3/9/4, if I did the math right.
The fact that each entry was for the same amount suggests that either it
was a single payment spread across the relevant crewmen (that was done
with some other cost items), or that there was some sort of
standardized, typical or routine activity/meal/whatever involved.

Each entry is for 4/4. Does that sound like a reasonable amount for a
bribe? Or for anything else? A few other cost items, all apparently at
New York, for comparison:

40 cabbidges  (cabbages)        5/0
one barrill of tarr            14/0
one cord of firewood           14/0
one pound of tobacco            0/5
one pare of shoes               7/6
two bushils of onions           6/0

I have to say that 4/4 seems like a pretty small amount for a bribe --
but in New York in 1700, who knows? And if it were paid at one time,
wouldn't a round number seem more plausible than 3/9/4?

So at this point I'm inclined against the theory, but it does remain
viable.

Would love to hear some other ideas for how meals could save a sailor
from the press.

Dexter

On 9/27/2012 8:15 AM, Dexter Kenfield wrote:

> That certainly is a possibility. I've also considered whether some other
> entries might be similarly questionable.

> I don't have a good way to judge Burnside's honesty. There is reason to
> think that the owners were a bit on the "shady" side, but that's not
> definite, either. And I do expect that for many ship masters, bribery of
> one sort or another was viewed as a simple necessity.

> On the other hand, the fact that there are several similar entries
> involving a number of crewmen may cut the other way. If you're going to
> cook the books, best to do it in a way that will get little notice. And
> with no witnesses.

> Thanks for the suggestion.

> Dexter

> On 9/26/2012 10:51 PM, melanie chesnel wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:20:49 PM UTC+2, Dexter Kenfield wrote:
>>> I found a law professor who published concerning the use of legal

>>> proceedings, including what is called habeas corpus, to avoid the press.

>>> He thinks the entries involved do not refer to legal proceedings, but

>>> instead to meals, in part because use of habeas was very rare in 1700,

>>> but became more common later on.

>>> That does now seem to be the consensus of the group. The professor

>>> thought there was an effort being made to bring the crewmen under one of

>>> the exemptions from the press. I confess I don't understand how that

>>> could work -- how does wining and dining support an exemption? --

>>> probably because I don't understand the exemptions well enough -- but

>>> the idea, at least, does make sense to me.

>>> Any further comments from anyone?

>>> Dexter

>> Having followed your very interesting thread from the begining, here
>> are my thoughts for what they are worth. Bribary and corruption comes
>> to mind. Wining and dining fits, in so does cooking the books. What if
>> the price of the meals as put into the acounts included a bribe to
>> whoever didn't the immpress the crew members?

>> regards melanie


 
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