Land and probate records are areas of research that I have yet to dig into. Could someone provide me with the basics (or point me to a more appropriate source) for basic info on what information is contained in these records? What, for example, is contained in a "probate record" other than any will that might have been filed? I've heard the term, but that's about it. Thanks
Probate - Depending on the time period they can be a wealth of information. Besides the will ( note witnesses) and the heirs mentioned there can also be listings of the property owned by the deceased which are very interesting to say the least. Land Records - You can usually look at the grantor and grantee indexes to see if your ancestor owned land. The actual deeds will tell you specifically where they lived, who they bought the property from and who they sold it to which could both be clues. If your ancestor received some sort of land grant you might be able to find something at http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/
Probate records and wills can give all sorts of information--clues to children, children's spouses, where they live, if they are still alive, etc. I find them very informative (when I can find them.)
Jan in Colorado wrote: > Probate - Depending on the time period they can be a wealth of information. > Besides the will ( note witnesses) and the heirs mentioned there can also be > listings of the property owned by the deceased which are very interesting to > say the least.
The records of intestate estates (where there is no will) can be even more helpful. In those cases the law generally required a full accounting of heirs. Those who made wills could name heirs selectively; those who did not, could not. There is also likely to be an inventory and orders for distribution of the estate. If the decedent had owned land, the distribution will include legal descriptions of lots which you may then find in the land records. Intestate estates and wills are generally recorded in the same set of record books and files.
> Land Records - You can usually look at the grantor and grantee indexes to > see if your ancestor owned land. The actual deeds will tell you > specifically where they lived, who they bought the property from and who > they sold it to which could both be clues. If your ancestor received some > sort of land grant you might be able to find something at > http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/
Bear in mind that BLM has records of *federal* land grants -- useful if you know (or believe) that your ancestor bought from the government. Know also that its database covers interior regions better than coastal ones.
> Jan in Colorado wrote: > > If your ancestor received some sort of land grant you might > > be able to find something at > > http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/ > Bear in mind that BLM has records of *federal* land grants > -- useful if you know (or believe) that your ancestor bought > from the government. Know also that its database covers > interior regions better than coastal ones.
To add to what Austin said, the key word here is "bought." The Government Land Office database included primarily PATENTS (not "grants") of two types: "Cash Entry Sales" (land sold for cash after 1820) and Homestead lands (160 acres given to those who met certain conditions concerning the land). Sales prior to the Act of 1820, before which land was sold with installment payments) are not in the database.
NOTE: It is a common misconception that if a land patent was signed by the U.S. President it represented a grant of land for some service performed for the government, military or otherwise. The fact is that the patents (the first deed issued for a tract of land) for the disposition of all federal lands bear the President's signature. Not only that, but until about 1830, the law required that the President himself sign each one! IOW, attach no special significance to a patent with the President's signature. All of them had it.
> "Austin W. Spencer" <AustinWSpen...@cox.net> wrote in message > news:3E70FA3B.40000@cox.net... > > Jan in Colorado wrote:
> > > If your ancestor received some sort of land grant you might > > > be able to find something at > > > http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/
> > Bear in mind that BLM has records of *federal* land grants > > -- useful if you know (or believe) that your ancestor bought > > from the government. Know also that its database covers > > interior regions better than coastal ones.
> To add to what Austin said, the key word here is "bought." The > Government Land Office database included primarily PATENTS (not > "grants") of two types: "Cash Entry Sales" (land sold for cash > after 1820) and Homestead lands (160 acres given to those who met > certain conditions concerning the land). Sales prior to the Act > of 1820, before which land was sold with installment payments) > are not in the database.
> NOTE: It is a common misconception that if a land patent was > signed by the U.S. President it represented a grant of land for > some service performed for the government, military or otherwise. > The fact is that the patents (the first deed issued for a tract > of land) for the disposition of all federal lands bear the > President's signature. Not only that, but until about 1830, the > law required that the President himself sign each one! IOW, > attach no special significance to a patent with the President's > signature. All of them had it.
> Richard
Remind us (me!) where to look for the land-grants that predate Federal involvement? F'instance, 1836 a man transfers land in souhern Illinois; I don't find this man's name on the GLO or the ILPDLG lists. So where'd he get the land he was giving away?
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:16:43 -0500, Singhals <singh...@erols.com> > wrote:
> >Remind us (me!) where to look for the land-grants that predate > >Federal involvement? F'instance, 1836 a man transfers land in > >souhern Illinois; I don't find this man's name on the GLO or the > >ILPDLG lists. So where'd he get the land he was giving away?
> Do you have the legal description for the land? You can search by > description also at the BLM/GLO site, and see if someone else had > previously been granted a patent for that piece of ground - then start > lokking for how it got from that patentee to the person you are > interested in.
> BTW, what is ILPDLG?
> Chuck
ILlinois Public Domain Land Grants -- gopherspace reference; much like the GLO but different. (and no more intelligible.)
> Remind us (me!) where to look for the land-grants that predate > Federal involvement? F'instance, 1836 a man transfers land in > souhern Illinois; I don't find this man's name on the GLO or the > ILPDLG lists. So where'd he get the land he was giving away?
I'm not familiar with the ILPDLG lists and their origins.
I tried to explain this in my previous message and didn't make my point clearly. With respect to the GLO on-line land records, the database includes only "cash entry" sales for the period you are interest in.
From 1785 to 1820 land was sold at various prices, in various amounts and with various installment payment plans. These sales are not in the GLO database.
In 1820, Congreess put federal land sales on a cash-only basis and sales from that time forward are the ones in the database. The GLO has the records prior to 1820 but has not yet put them on line. If you have the legal description of the land, you should be able to get the record.
If you think the land was acquired prior to the area being ceded to the U.S., that would take some study. Probably, though, it would be the subject of a private bill in Congress to legitimize the claim.
> > Remind us (me!) where to look for the land-grants that predate > > Federal involvement? F'instance, 1836 a man transfers land in > > souhern Illinois; I don't find this man's name on the GLO or > the > > ILPDLG lists. So where'd he get the land he was giving away?
> I'm not familiar with the ILPDLG lists and their origins.
> I tried to explain this in my previous message and didn't make my > point clearly. With respect to the GLO on-line land records, the > database includes only "cash entry" sales for the period you are > interest in.
> From 1785 to 1820 land was sold at various prices, in various > amounts and with various installment payment plans. These sales > are not in the GLO database.
> In 1820, Congreess put federal land sales on a cash-only basis > and sales from that time forward are the ones in the database. > The GLO has the records prior to 1820 but has not yet put them on > line. If you have the legal description of the land, you should > be able to get the record.
> If you think the land was acquired prior to the area being ceded > to the U.S., that would take some study. Probably, though, it > would be the subject of a private bill in Congress to legitimize > the claim.
Yeah, prolly acquired ca 1814 or so ... so, oh JOY! I get to read the Globe/Cong Rec?!? Bah, humbug. Race you for the Johnny Walker.
The ILPDLG was at UIUC gopher site back when gopher-space was new territory. (g)
> Yeah, prolly acquired ca 1814 or so ... so, oh JOY! I get to > read the Globe/Cong Rec?!? Bah, humbug. Race you for the > Johnny Walker.
Cheryl, I guess I'm not explaining this right. Let me try again:
If the land was purchased / homesteaded after May, 1820, the chances are the information is on line at the GLO site.
If the land was bought between 1785 and 1820, the record probably will not be on line, but the Eastern States Land Office should have the record. You will need the exact legal description. Also, the case file, which will have additional informaiton, will be at NARA.
It is only prior to 1785 or prior to the land being surveyed and open for development that they may have been some Congressional action. In the latter case, Congress passed dozens of bills giving pre-emption to squatters, sometimes generically, sometimes specifically.
In 1814 in Illinois the land may not have been surveyed, but it was owned by the federal government.
You attended my lecture on this at Kensington. Didn't you save the notes? <<vbg>>
> "Singhals" <Singh...@erols.com> wrote in message > news:3E7392DD.A7B69D32@erols.com... > > Yeah, prolly acquired ca 1814 or so ... so, oh JOY! I get to > > read the Globe/Cong Rec?!? Bah, humbug. Race you for the > > Johnny Walker.
> Cheryl, I guess I'm not explaining this right. Let me try again:
> If the land was purchased / homesteaded after May, 1820, the > chances are the information is on line at the GLO site.
> If the land was bought between 1785 and 1820, the record probably > will not be on line, but the Eastern States Land Office should > have the record. You will need the exact legal description. Also, > the case file, which will have additional informaiton, will be at > NARA.
> It is only prior to 1785 or prior to the land being surveyed and > open for development that they may have been some Congressional > action. In the latter case, Congress passed dozens of bills > giving pre-emption to squatters, sometimes generically, sometimes > specifically.
> In 1814 in Illinois the land may not have been surveyed, but it > was owned by the federal government.
> You attended my lecture on this at Kensington. Didn't you save > the notes? <<vbg>>
OH! Is _that_ what's sticking out of that syllabus! :^) Hmmm, now is that in the pile in the dining room, or the one in the basement, or ... No! Good grief, looks like I FILED it!! OK ... (student retires to corner)...
If your ancestor was a farmer, whether or not they owned land, look for "deeds of trust" or "mortgage deeds" as well. In my 'home' county, I have found these deeds mixed in with the land sale records, in the same book. In other places there may be a separate book for mortgages.
These records are generally indexed alphabetically two ways, by Grantor, and by Grantee, in my case both indexes in one book. If your ancestor is the borrower, look in the "Grantor" index. [As a buyer they would be in the "Grantee" index.]
In the instances I found, money was being borrowed to "make a crop," either on the borrower's own land or on some other party's land, usually spelled out in the deed. For example: Harry Jones borrows money for a crop "to be grown on the Richwoods farm of John Doe" or "to be grown on his own land."
The collateral on these loans was the crop(s) to be grown, plus in many cases, the livestock as well, with detailed descriptions of the horses, pigs., etc.
Researching: A D K I N S O N - A T K I N S O N - D A N I E L - D A V I S - J O N E S - All N Carolina ->Tenn -> Ark;
G I L L E T T E - G I L L E T - Va -> Ala -> Ark; S P E N C E - Va -> Ala -> Ark; H E A R D Arkansas; All in Clark County, Arkansas by 1870 G I L L E T / G I L L E T T E - Va -> Missouri -> Ark In Prairie County, Arkansas by 1880
In a message dated 3/16/2003 8:22:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tootnc...@webtv.net writes: > If your ancestor was a farmer, whether or not they owned land, look for > "deeds of trust" or "mortgage deeds" as well. In my 'home' county, I > have found these deeds mixed in with the land sale records, in the same > book. In other places there may be a separate book for mortgages.
I found out where my great grandfather and family lived before they bought a farm in VT by finding a deed for a farm he bought in the County Clerk's Office. At the bottom of the deed, it read something like, 'So and So, of Whitehall, New York'..... So, I went right to Whitehall and found all sorts of information I never would have found had it not been for that deed! KathyP
