> I contacted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission last week... > I had recently found a great uncle of mine who was killed on the > front in France in 1918. 1.7 million records are stored on > www.cwgc.org and this strikes me as an invaluable genealogical > resourse. It would be great if the site made it possible to leave a > message recording a "hit". That way any other relative can see > there is interest from someone else.
> However the reply was rather disappointing:
> >>The Commission is responsible for the commemoration of members of > the Commonwealth Forces who died during the two World Wars. This is > done by a headstone marking the grave or, if the grave is not known, > on one of the Commission's memorials to the missing. We are also > responsible for keeping record of where they are commemorated.<<
> >>We are not a Family Tree Association and have no facilities or > resources to incorporate this function.<<
> That strikes me as pretty short-sighted and not particularly > friendly... If I found someone else had Charles Haynd Cleaver as a > relative, I would be extremely happy and have a much higher regard > for the work of the CWGC.
I think that this is a difficult position. Yes, from a genealogist's point of view, it would be extremely useful. I am a professional genealogist and lost many of my ancestors in the first World War. Having visited war graves in France, I think that the War Graves Commission do a wonderful job in protecting the memories of the dead. On balance, I would prefer that they carry on in this low key manner and leave it to others to compile a list of contacts.
One of the problems with genalogical websites is that they take a lot of work and don't have much financial backing. Many times, the features you'd like to see on a site aren't provided because of the cost involved. You can, of course, offer to pay for this service to be instituted on their site but the cost is likely way more than you could imagine.
In another note, you mention Family Tree Maker using your data and selling it back to you. This is simply their way of raising money to keep their site going and to offer the interaction between users. I personally do not order anything from Broderbund and haven't for over five years because of the way they handle their genealogical data. However, I've seen through Rootsweb and my own genealogical web site how difficult it is to maintain and promote information on the web. I can't fault them for trying even though they used data I submitted, too. Back then they didn't even warn us that it would be resold . . . now it's disclosed on their site, I believe.
----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Cleaver <mclea...@spamcop.net>
> I contacted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission last week... > I had recently found a great uncle of mine who was killed on the > front in France in 1918. 1.7 million records are stored on > www.cwgc.org and this strikes me as an invaluable genealogical > resourse. It would be great if the site made it possible to leave a > message recording a "hit". That way any other relative can see > there is interest from someone else.
> However the reply was rather disappointing:
> >>The Commission is responsible for the commemoration of members of > the Commonwealth Forces who died during the two World Wars. This is > done by a headstone marking the grave or, if the grave is not known, > on one of the Commission's memorials to the missing. We are also > responsible for keeping record of where they are commemorated.<<
> >>We are not a Family Tree Association and have no facilities or > resources to incorporate this function.<<
> That strikes me as pretty short-sighted and not particularly > friendly... If I found someone else had Charles Haynd Cleaver as a > relative, I would be extremely happy and have a much higher regard > for the work of the CWGC.
I contacted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission last week... I had recently found a great uncle of mine who was killed on the front in France in 1918. 1.7 million records are stored on www.cwgc.org and this strikes me as an invaluable genealogical resourse. It would be great if the site made it possible to leave a message recording a "hit". That way any other relative can see there is interest from someone else.
However the reply was rather disappointing:
>>The Commission is responsible for the commemoration of members of
the Commonwealth Forces who died during the two World Wars. This is done by a headstone marking the grave or, if the grave is not known, on one of the Commission's memorials to the missing. We are also responsible for keeping record of where they are commemorated.<<
>>We are not a Family Tree Association and have no facilities or
resources to incorporate this function.<<
That strikes me as pretty short-sighted and not particularly friendly... If I found someone else had Charles Haynd Cleaver as a relative, I would be extremely happy and have a much higher regard for the work of the CWGC.
> you mention Family Tree Maker using your data and >selling it back to you. This is simply their way of raising money to >keep their site going and to offer the interaction between users. I >personally do not order anything from Broderbund and haven't for over >five years because of the way they handle their genealogical data.
I cannot believe we put up with this. If it was Microsoft, then the judge would have intervened by now, if it were spammers, then spomething would have been done. It is a subtle form of pyramid selling that should be condemned by all and new users should be warned.
> One of the problems with genalogical websites is that they take a lot of >work and don't have much financial backing. Many times, the features you'd >like to see on a site aren't provided because of the cost involved. You >can, of course, offer to pay for this service to be instituted on their site >but the cost is likely way more than you could imagine.
Cost isn't the only consideration. What about maintenance? I'm talking about the person who leaves a name and e-mail address and the changes service providers. How do you keep that database up-to-date without annoying the people who mark themselves? Send out periodic messages that say "Are you still at this address?"
: I cannot believe we put up with this. If it was Microsoft, then the judge : would have intervened by now, if it were spammers, then spomething would : have been done. It is a subtle form of pyramid selling that should be : condemned by all and new users should be warned.
Well, I'm guessing it doesn't just grab your credit card from your wallet for you, and I've never submitted to them so I don't know what it tells you, but...
: How can we prevent abuses like this?
Simple. If you want to share your data, give it to the LDS. This has a LOT of benefits over giving it to some commercial company:
1. Your name is tied to it as the source. Anyone reading it can contact you for more informatin, or maybe with more information.
2. The Mormons are committed to keeping genealogical data for eternity. Who knows about some .com company? Say they get bought out next month by a bigger company, who wants something other than their genealogy database. Business decision - let's stop doing all this stuff about dead people. Where is your data now? On some backup tapes being sold on ebay as salvage.
3. The LDS doesn't charge for access to your data. In fact, based on the fees for making copies, bringing in films, etc, I'm quite confident it costs them a good chunk of cash to support all this. Their motivation for this is philosophical, rather than financial.
4. Anyone doing genealogical research becomes aware of the LDS, and/or their website at http://www.familysearch.org at some point, and will check there. There's a few dozen other places - why not put your data where you know someone is going to look for it? Not only are you helping them, but they may have a lot for you.
Now, don't get me wrong. I own a CD or two that I've purchased from the "big names" and they have some good information on them. However, if you want you family tree somewhere where it'll be safe, somewhere where people are going to look for it, and somewhere where you don't have to pay to see your own stuff, it's worth considering.
Dave Hinz
P.S. I'm not a member of the Mormon church, but am happy to benefit from their work & resources.
Andrea.Bar...@tesco.net (Andrea Barnes) wrote: >I think that this is a difficult position. Yes, from a >genealogist's point of view, it would be extremely useful (if >the graves site made it possible to leave a marker, MC). I am a >professional genealogist and lost many of my ancestors in the first >World War. Having visited war graves in France, I think that the >War Graves Commission do a wonderful job in protecting the memories >of the dead. On balance, I would prefer that they carry on in this >low key manner and leave it to others to compile a list of contacts.
They are the only place where people come and could "meet" having found a loved one...
It would be a minor software revision or could even be achieved with a simple link to another site where the genealogy information could be exchanged.
"Andrea Barnes" <Andrea.Bar...@tesco.net> wrote: > I think that this is a difficult position. Yes, from a > genealogist's point of view, it would be extremely useful. I am a > professional genealogist and lost many of my ancestors in the first > World War. Having visited war graves in France, I think that the > War Graves Commission do a wonderful job in protecting the memories > of the dead. On balance, I would prefer that they carry on in this > low key manner and leave it to others to compile a list of contacts.
Yes, I agree. Europe (and much of the rest of the world) is scattered with these war graves, not just in the famous huge cemeteries but also in small churchyards where there might just be a couple of airmen from a crashed plane, and yet they find and care for them all. This is their function, and they carry it out with very poor funding. Indeed, in the last couple of weeks there's been a big fuss about them having to cut the allowances of their gardeners, for example. When my late father was building the Roll of Honour for the Cranwell Boy Entrants Electrical And Wireless Association (info about the association is to be found with others of its type on http://www.appbe.com/ ), they were extremely helpful in providing information. After all, they didn't HAVE to put the register on line.
In article <8FAF6312Emartincleave...@24.132.64.35>, mclea...@spamcop.net (Martin Cleaver) wrote:
> I cannot believe we put up with this.
Better get your believer fixed.
> If it was Microsoft, then the judge would have intervened by now,
Ah, the Great Satan. But it ain't Microsoft, is it? IAC, on what grounds do you believe legal action could be taken? Is FTM a monopoly? Not hardly.
> if it were spammers, then spomething would have been done.
But it ain't spammers, is it?
>It is a subtle form of pyramid selling
No it's not.
> that should be condemned by all
You don't like it, so you think it should be condemned by all? Right.
> and new users should be warned.
Like a surgeon general-type warning on the box: Warning: Martin Cleaver has dertmined that the World Family Tree is a subtle form of pyramid selling that should be condemned by all. Kewl.
> How can we prevent abuses like this?
I guess I could put you in my kill-file, but I might miss some humourous postings if I did that.
> In article <8FAF6312Emartincleave...@24.132.64.35>, > mclea...@spamcop.net (Martin Cleaver) wrote: > > It is a subtle form of pyramid selling > No it's not.
Because it's certainly not subtle, right?
<g>
Regards, Richard A. Pence, 3211 Adams Ct, Fairfax, VA 22030 Voice 703-591-4243 Fax 703-385-0971 Pence Family History <http://www.pipeline.com/~richardpence/>
I have looked at the CWGC and was impressed with the info there. They do have, however, what is called the "Debt of Honour" register where family members of the people who died in the various wars can post info about them. Looking at that part of the site was a great success for me as I found the great-grandson of my great-grandmother's brother - a lost link.
> I have looked at the CWGC and was impressed with the info there. > They do have, however, what is called the "Debt of Honour" > register where family members of the people who died in the various > wars can post info about them. Looking at that part of the site was > a great success for me as I found the great-grandson of my > great-grandmother's brother - a lost link.
> Jayne Paradis
I mispoke a bit in my original posting. It is the Roll Of Honour that I was referring to and can be found at:
> > I have looked at the CWGC and was impressed with the info there. > > They do have, however, what is called the "Debt of Honour" > > register where family members of the people who died in the various > > wars can post info about them. Looking at that part of the site was > > a great success for me as I found the great-grandson of my > > great-grandmother's brother - a lost link.
> I mispoke a bit in my original posting. It is the Roll Of Honour > that I was referring to and can be found at:
