Danish Birth Certificate for Karl Dane
yoga...@optonline.net
I am currently researching a biography of the late silent film actor
from Copenhagen, Denmark, Karl Dane.
He was born October 12, 1886. Do you have any idea if it is possible to
get a birth certificate from Denmark? If so, where should I go, since I
do not speak Danish?
I would appreciate any leads or suggestions. Thanks so much,
Laura
Hugh Watkins
it will be expensive to pay a researcher
the master record is the church book
which means you have to find the parish
links to
http://www.sa.dk/sa/omarkiverne/english/default.htm
http://www.sa.dk/sa/omarkiverne/english/sitemap.htm
hisrecordwill be at
http://www.sa.dk/sa/omarkiverne/english/lak.htm
if he was born in Copenhagen
Landsarkivet for Sjælland,
Lolland-Falster og Bornholm
(The Provincial Archives of Zealand
Lolland-Falster and Bornholm)
Jagtvej 10, Box 661
DK-2200 Kbh. N.
www.sa.dk/lak
Telephone:
+ 45 35 24 82 00
Fax: +45 72 26 53 48
E-mail: mai...@lak.sa.dk
=================================00
better to use the family History library in Utah for nineteenth century
stuff
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHL/frameset_library.asp
there are several danish speaking specialists there
study
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=E&Juris1=137
the on line danish National Biography is too old for him
Ask a librarian to look at a newer edition
http://bibliotek.dk/
be careful to use his true name coreectly spelled not his screen name
>> check his
death certificate; Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb
should be available at the Los Angeles recorders
office (and it should list his last known address).
from
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=karl+dane&qt_s=Search
in some countries (eg OZ) it may list his parents ?????????
hugh W
hugh.w...@gmail.com
LAK
see
I had a day at the archives in Copenhagen
results with links are posted here
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2005/12/rasmus-karl-therkelsen-gottlieb-aka.html
with images of his records
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1424/216/1600/karl_dane_birth.jpg
Hugh W
=================================
Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb was born on 12 October 1886 in a second
floor apartment at Thüresensgade 23 in the parish of Skt Johannes
sogn, Sokkerlund herred, Kjøbenhavn (København or Copenhagen,
Denmark) and he was baptised on 10 April 1887 when
he was presented by his parents and Mrs Fru Petrine ?Rasmussen?
His father was glovemaker handskemager Rasmus Marius Gottlieb and his
mother was Anne Kathrine Simonsen age 21, and they were married. gift
today Turesensgade 23 II, 1368 København K.
lægdsrullerne fra Staden København, står i Landsarkivets
selvbetjeningsmagasin - are on the open shelves,
and there is an index register of all boys born in 1886 when they were
14 years old and registered in 1900 for conscription to defend Denmark
this gave me Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb's number 1814 which led me
to his military service record
the snaps were made with my cell phone cam
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1424/216/1600/laegd-Karl-Dane-1.jpg
names, date of birth
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1424/216/1600/laegd-Karl-Dane-2.jpg
the tiny writing is changes of address
his father's occupation and name as above
and PARISH OF BIRTH
Skt Joh.
which enabled me to find him in the church book
the abreviations show which units he served in
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1424/216/1600/leagd-Karl-Dane-3.jpg
the red numbers show the dates that he was caught up in the general
mobilisation for the defence of neutral Denmark in WW1
6 August 1914 to 31 May 1915
It should be possible to find him on a ships list between June 1915 and
his first film in 1917 or 1918
Actor - filmography Wikipedia
"karl dane" - Google Search
and note the missing "r" "Rasmus Karl Thekelsen" Gottlieb - Google
Search a good example of how mistakes get mindlessly duplicated on the
web.
He shot himself 15 April 1934
His parents in the 1885 danish census
All persons in the household
kbhv, København (Staden), Badstuestræde, Kjøbenhavn, ,
Badstuestræde 8, forhus 2den sal, 5, FT-1885
Following fields are shown: Name, Age, Marital status, Position in
household, Occupation , Birth place
Rasmus Marius Gottlieb, 25, Gift, , handskemagersvend, Horsens
Anna Cathrine Gottlieb, 26, Gift, , , Aarhus
he is a journeyman glovemaker
so the search goes to Jutland . . .
enjoy
Hugh W
yoga...@optonline.net
I am going over this information again and still cannot believe it. You
are so fast! Thank you! I really owe you one--no, a hundred! I would
like to ackowledge you in my book.
Do you speak Danish, Hugh?
I definitely am enjoying! :-)
Laura
Hugh Watkins
> Dear Hugh,
>
> I am going over this information again and still cannot believe it. You
> are so fast! Thank you! I really owe you one--no, a hundred! I would
> like to ackowledge you in my book.
> Do you speak Danish, Hugh?
yes and read but lousy at writing it
> I definitely am enjoying! :-)
> Laura
>
I am too fat and need to get out to exercise
so my steps yesterday went by the Danish Royal Library
http://slim2005.blogspot.com/2005/12/slotsholmen-copenhagen_16.html
I thought I should find him in a danish national biography or
filmography but in fact the librarian and I ended up on the net
I did not fancy searching many reels of newspapers for a nekrolog /
obituary
so far the "theatrical family" is a myth
but they may have been in amateur theatricals
basically a fruitless visit
==============
Early danish aviation is a another field
there were two units the army and the navry (marin) not amalgamated
until after WW2
the details of hia military record may provide an answer
they also flew spotter balloons for the artilery
kept at http://www.sa.dk/
but I took the bus to
http://www.sa.dk/lak/default.htm
his parents marriage record will be there too
and with theaddressses form the military record lægdrull
it will be easy to check the as yet unindexed census for siblings
film at
http://www.sa.dk/lak/default.htm
originals http://www.sa.dk/lak/default.htm
============================
I was too tired to transcribe the conscription record and I had no
magnifying glasses with me
Danish Archives FAQ http://www.rootsweb.com/~dnkcen/FAQ/index.html
http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Ednkcen/sitemap.html
His father will ahve left school at 14 and been appreticed in the
glovemaker's trade live in with a master unless a family affair until
age 21
We have street indexes / trade directories annually so if he had his own
business later he will be easy to trace
today
http://www.krak.dk/ but the old ones are candidates for digitising
because they are getting worn
http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/MAINPAGES/person.asp?Tagning=1.Fir_Fors/FA_Pers
search GOTTLEIB
Viser nu: 1-25 af 687 resultater (28 sider)
Shows now: 1-25 of 687 resultats (28 spages)
from Aage Gottlieb
to Vibeke og Bent Gottlieb
about 600 individuals
http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Ednkcen/FAQ/1000surnames.html
number 540 Gottlieb
so that is a lot of letters to send in vain
when you haescendants and cousins
definitely not all related to each other
one of the archivists I met as himself a GOTTLEIB buthe had nevr heard
of Karl Dane in his own familyhistory
another good contact for this work will be the LDS Library in Salt lake
city (before about 1910 to 1895 after that mostly mss or print records
only in Denamrk)
Hugh W
hugh.w...@gmail.com
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/2005/12/deeper-into-karl-dane-at-lak.html
I could find some addresses in KRAK directories for his father
glovemaker
handskemager Rasmus M Gottlieb
but not in 1890 for the census
Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb was not listed in the directories I saw
but
Enke Anna Gottlieb (widow) might be his mother in Odensegade
the way into census is by address because they are neither indexed,
filmed nor digitized
enjoy
Hugh W
yoga...@optonline.net
Family History Center in my area which I can visit. I did an online
search tonight on the databases provided but did not find any Gottlieb
that seems close.
Perhaps it would be beneficial to run an ad online searching for
descendants?
Talk to you soon. Thanks for everything,
Laura
Hugh Watkins
> Thanks Hugh. I looked up the LDS LIbrary run by the Mormons and found a
> Family History Center in my area which I can visit. I did an online
> search tonight on the databases provided but did not find any Gottlieb
> that seems close.
>
> Perhaps it would be beneficial to run an ad online searching for
> descendants?
I don't think so
better in local newspapers when you have data
teh key factormissing is how he came to USA
I searched the fiche at LAK today in vain
arte we certain about his middle two names
have you any evidence of which Carl Gottlieb
what is your source for his date of birth?
the web is a notoriously unreliable source
I also searched for his qualification as a smith after his apprentice ship
but he apperently never made a "master piece"
according to the Guild of Smiths (Smed laug svendprov)
and ended up an electrician according to his military record
The first class trained as pilots in the danish army flying school was
in 1916
but individuals were taught to fly on an ad hoc basis before that
But that research has to be in two other libraries
1916 was a bad year to cross the atlantic with the submarine war
Loss of the Lusitania 7 May 1915
no indirect crossiongs listed in Copenhagen police records of migrants
February, 1917
1 Germany resumes unrestricted U-boat warfare
3 US severs relations with Germany
http://www.english.emory.edu/LostPoets/Chronology.html
what month was this made?
New York premiere 10 March 1918
My Four Years in Germany (1918) .... Chancellor von Bethmana-Hollweg
MOTION PICTURE MAGAZINE
June, 1918
This is the picturization of Ambassador Gerard's book, "My Four Years in
Germany,"
1917 Coercive Activities: In 1917 "...powerful competing studios were
prepared to do anything, even threaten violence and personal harm, to
keep (Warner Bros.)...from breaking into the big leagues. The major
studios, such as, Paramount and First National, were able to coerce the
owners of Broadway movie houses into not showing the Warner feature (My
Four Years in Germany)."
what personell archives have warner brothers?
Hugh W
yoga...@optonline.net
I think his 2 middle names are pretty certain: he wrote his entire name
out (I recognize his handwriting now from seeing his autographs) on his
WW1 draft registration card, dated June 1917. He was in Brooklyn NY
then. He was listed as a machinist on this document. His DOB is written
on there too, October 12, 1886, not in his own hand, but I assume he
would have corrected this before he signed it agian in the bottom.
I don't know what month the film was made, I am checking a few sources.
Karl was here in June 1917, it appears he was still in the military at
this time per his card, so the picture had to be started after this
date. This reduces the window of time for production to the last half
of 1917. As an FYI, per Warner's, the shocking war brutality scenes
were faked in a small studio in Grantwood, NJ. Battle scenes were
filmed in Camp Upton, Long Island. So Karl may have reamined on the
East Coast during production.
I am planning to go to the Performing Arts Library in NYC on Friday so
should be able to find more info, provided this darned transit strike
gets resolved.Thanks, talk to you soon,
Laura
ecunn...@att.net
> HI Hugh,
> I think his 2 middle names are pretty certain: he wrote his entire name
> out (I recognize his handwriting now from seeing his autographs) on his
> WW1 draft registration card, dated June 1917. He was in Brooklyn NY
> then. He was listed as a machinist on this document. His DOB is written
> on there too, October 12, 1886, not in his own hand, but I assume he
> would have corrected this before he signed it agian in the bottom.
>
> I don't know what month the film was made, I am checking a few sources.
> Karl was here in June 1917, it appears he was still in the military at
> this time per his card, so the picture had to be started after this
> date.
Laura: If in referring to "per his card" you mean his WWI Draft
Registration, he is NOT in the US military. He is employed by
R.O.Bert-Goir P Company if that means anything to you or can be read
better by someone else. Address is Washington St., Brooklyn.
There is reference to his service in the Danish Coastal Artillery.
ecunn...@att.net
Hugh Watkins
yes I forgot that card
just sorry not tom find him outbound from Denmark in 1916
or his arrival in NT Ellis Island
http://www.emiarch.dk/info.php3?l=en
in Copenhagen we have access to fiche up to 1949
at LAK which is 15 mins on the bus form here
http://www.sa.dk/lak/
but if he went on board a ship and paid the purser with cash
he would not be recorded anyway by the Copenhagen Police
>> Hamburg Emigration Lists a database of 5 million people (Russian,
German, Jewish, Austrian) who emigrated via Hamburg, Germany from 1850
to 1905.
Lists for the years 1850 to 1934 have been almost completely preserved
in the Hamburg State Archives http://ltyr.hamburg.de/
but you will have to pay them to search their records for you
Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb born 1886
in Copenhagen Denmark
can anyone find him on Ellis Island ?
Hugh W
catalpa
"Hugh Watkins" <hugh.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:40re7sF...@individual.net...
> yoga...@optonline.net wrote:
>
<big snip>
>
> Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb born 1886
> in Copenhagen Denmark
> can anyone find him on Ellis Island ?
>
> Hugh W
He is listed as Therkelsen-Gottlieb, Rasmus Carl and arrived 11 Feb 1916 on
ship Oscar II from Copenhagen with occupation of engineer.
yoga...@optonline.net
Laura
yoga...@optonline.net
Laura
Joe Pessarra
<yoga...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1135139136.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks, Hugh. So he arrived through Ellis Island?
> Laura
>
You can take a look at the ship manifest at http://www.ellisisland.org/
Joe in Texas
catalpa
<ecunn...@att.net> wrote in message news:43A87C34...@att.net...
That would be the Robert Gair Company. Robert Gair was the inventor of
corrugated cardboard and produced it in Brooklyn.
yoga...@optonline.net
manifest and also about Robert Gair. How fascinating and it all adds so
much depth to the investigation.
Laura
yoga...@optonline.net
Hugh Watkins
thank you so much catalpa
tomorrow is my last day in the danish archives
been searching census in vain
they could not find the 1916 packet #190 for his street address
Webersgade the danish painte WEBER -"street = gate in yorkshire english)
and his miltary records are in are in remote storage
(3 days notice)
the censu is not indexed and 1916 is not yet filmed
there are probably tax reords to find for his father at least
I ma going to spend tomorrow in LAK looking at church books
again not yet filmed
I searche his birth parish looking for a little brother (if one exists?)
witout luck so far
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passSearch.asp
Rasmus Carl Therkelsen-Gottlieb Copenhagen, Denmark 1916 29
==
First Name: Rasmus Carl
Last Name: Therkelsen-Gottlieb
Ethnicity: Denmark, Scand.
Last Place of Residence: Copenhagen, Denmark
Date of Arrival: Feb 11, 1916
Age at Arrival: 29y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Oscar II
Port of Departure: Copenhagen
Manifest Line Number: 0009
his wife Karla Therkelsen-Gottleib was at Webersgade 17 Copenhagen (in
the mislaid parcel of 1916 census papers GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR)
their children would have been listed with their dates and places of birth)
He was going to Brooklyn (column 13 of thesecodnpageof the manifest)
he paid fopr his own ticket and his friend Elias Lindgren 345 ?? court
?? Alle? Brooklyn NY 6 foot 2 sound? complexion, fair hair, grey eyes
I don't know the streets of Brooklyn so I cannot guess
now I know he was using a double barrelled name I can make some other
searches in indexes
No clues to his "theatrical family" yet nor hisnpilots career
but I have some good keywords to search
you are the tops catalpa :-)
Hugh W
yoga...@optonline.net
Karl's friend, but I found someone who emigrated here from Pitea,
Sweden on February 8, 1906 on the ship Baltic at age 25.
I looked at 3 different Eliases:
This one, Elias with no middle initial given, from Pitea, but it looks
like he is going to Michigan, not Brooklyn NY.
Another Elias, Elias K, who came over on the Mauretania on 10/29/09, at
age 18. However, he was going to CA.
Elias E arrived in March 1903 and was doing to Modesto, CA.
I am having a problem linking the gif file of the ship manifest Elias
from Pitea, I will try it later, but this is all from the Ellis Island
site.
I will check out some more records this afternoon and will keep you
posted.
Laura
Hugh Watkins
try and find Elias in the US census first
with the correct address
his widowed mother attended his wedding on 10 September 1910
to Carla Dagmar Hagen born 1 november 1886 in Copenhagen
St Pauls church
http://www.sogn.dk/sanktpaul-koebenhavn/
http://www.dis-danmark.dk/index.asp
http://dis-danmark.dk/kirkeimg/view_sogn.asp?SognID=2338
Sankt Paul Sogn - Sokkelund Herred - København Amt
Hugh W
catalpa
<yoga...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1135271351.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You are looking for the wrong Lindgren. Look carefully at the handwriting on
the manifest. In line 6 look at the way the "C" is written in "Battle
Creek", this matches the first letter of the Lindgren first name. The first
name for Lindgren is "Chas" not "Elias".
A search for Charles Lindgren shows that Charles P. Lindgren, from
Copenhagen Denmark arrived in New York on 26 Aug 1913 going to Brooklyn with
occupation of engineer. He was also in the USA before, arriving 31 Oct 1911,
but the ship manifest link doesn't work properly. This would appear to be
the friend you are looking for.
yoga...@optonline.net
be more careful reading the handwriting on these old documents. Thanks
for the info about Charles, this is another important detail to fill in
the gaps.
Laura
catalpa
<yoga...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1135289114.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Glad to assist. The handwriting on some of the ship manifests and some of
the transcriptions at ellisisland.org don't make research easy.
Hugh Watkins
on at least one it looks as if the shipd surgeon was drunk :-)
with an enormous scrawled signature
I have made a quick tree for Karl Dane
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=karl-dane
and a blog page (easier than a "proper" web site)
http://karl-dane.blogspot.com/
- sources anddetailsto be added over the next 14 days
would anyone peaes help flesh out karl's second wife
Thais Valdemar
1894 Russia
15 Nov 1955 USA
didshe amrry severaltiems
and have children?
some outlines:-
his father
Descendants of Rasmus Marius Gottlieb
1 Rasmus Marius Gottlieb 1860 - glove maker from Horsens
.. +Anne Kathrine Simonsen 1859 - from Aarhus
........ 2 Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb 1886 - 1934 appremticed as
balcksmith became elecrtician and film star and hot dogstand owner
............ +Carla Dagmar Hagen 1886 -
................... 3 Ingeborg Helene Gottlieb 1912 -
................... 3 - Gottlieb
........ *2nd Wife of Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb:
............ +Thais Valdemar 1894 - 1955
his first wife's grandfather all Copenhageners
Descendants of Nicolai Wilhelm Hagen
1 Nicolai Wilhelm Hagen 1817 - Godsmith
.. +Marie Sophie Falck 1823 -
........ 2 Carl Ludvig Hagen 1855 - Engine turner
............ +Marie Helene Carlsen 1862 -
................... 3 Hilma Johanne Hagen 1883 -
................... 3 Ingeborg Hagen 1884 -
................... 3 Carla Dagmar Hagen 1886 -
....................... +Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb 1886 - 1934
............................. 4 Ingeborg Helene Gottlieb 1912 -
............................. 4 - Gottlieb
................... 3 Aage Hagen 1888 -
just a chance the City Hall archive is open
must rush
Hugh W
yoga...@optonline.net
Thais was just her stage name. Her real name was actually (get this):
Princess Anastasia Georgina (Tanya) Kisselova Walonsky. She was
reportedly also married to Henry L Rosenfled Jr, who held a seat on the
New York Stock Exchange, and he died in 1945 in Burma. I did some
searches on her royal name on several sites and coiuldn't find anything
more.
I was going to try to get a marriage license since she married Karl in
1928, but I have no idea if they even married in LA, it coyuld have
been anywhere. I will be at the NY Public Library today, I'll see if I
can locate anything. Thanks, Hugh, so wonderfully exciting to know the
name of Karl's daughter!
Laura
Doug Corbin
from 1928 where she was suing him for $75,000 for breaking his promise to
marry her. At that time they had been living together for several months.
Did they marry after the case was filed?
Doug
"Hugh Watkins" <hugh.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:411rbjF...@individual.net...
yoga...@optonline.net
newspaper story this was? Thanks for the info. This will be important
for the biography I am planning on writing.
Thanks,
Laura
Hugh Watkins
Ihave a danish genealogical friend with a russian mother so
I will ask her
there are various russian reference books pre 1918 on the nobility
I expect NY public library should have some
but they will be in cyrillic fonts
hughW
Hugh Watkins
Carl Dane's first wife was alive in 1923
and supportinmg their two children as a seamstress
updated
Descendants of Rasmus Marius Gottlieb
1 Rasmus Marius Gottlieb 1860 -
.. +Anne Kathrine Simonsen 1859 - 1911 << Karl Dane's mother died a
divorcee of throat cancer
I suspect Karl Dane's father moved to Aarhus in about 1890 or 1891 but
no real evidence just a hint
........ 2 G V J Gottlieb 1880 - 1892
........ 2 Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb 1886 - 1934
............ +Carla Dagmar Hagen 1886 - after 1923
................... 3 Ejlert Carl Gottlieb 1911 - after 1923
................... 3 Ingeborg Helene Gottlieb 1912 - after 1923
........ *2nd Wife of Rasmus Karl Therkelsen Gottlieb:
............ +Thais Valdemar 1894 - 1955
absolutley no hint of the "theatrical family" yet
I am learning about early aviation in Copenhagen
possibly he was sent up in a ballonn as an artillery spotter??????
hugh W