Blizzard pwns gold farmers - Film at 11.
Davian
=1#post1912793
Blizzard appears to be taking a bit of a stand against e-bay type sales.
Over 1,000 accounts banned for out of game sales of in-game items.
--
Davian - Night Elf Rogue on Bloodhoof
Dearic - Dwarven Paladin on Bloodhoof
luong
suspecious. For example, huge amount of gold and items in inventory. Now
with that said...
A week ago, someone got banned because of this. A GM looked in his account
and saw -way- too many golds and blue/purple items. They banned his
account, no questions asked, no investigation. They just determined that he
was an EBayer and such.
Now the account holder was beyond pissed. He went to the forums and posted
his side of the story. Apparently, he was a guildleader of one of the top
guilds on the server. He held all his guild's loot money and rare/epic
drops. All passing of any money or items were only circulated within the
guild. And the worse thing was that it happened about Friday and he had
scheduled a guild raid for Molten Core the next day. Nothing could be done
about his situation until the beginning of the week.
The responses flooded in. There were about 17+ pages of people telling the
GM's to go shoot themselves.
All I gotta say is if this is what Blizzard wants to do, they should do an
investigation before doing any bannings. Actions like that was poorly
calculated and uncalled for.
"Davian" <dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote in message
news:5q-dnV-AArJ...@adelphia.com...
>
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1912793&p=1&t
Adman
How on Earth can you support such a claim?!
I *have* to assume that Blizzard doesn't just scan everyone's
inventories and boot everyone that has a few purple and blue items and
a lot of cash. The might flag those accounts for futher
investigation... in fact, they've posted that accounts do get flagged
for various reasons, and then investigated more fully.
In any case, we only see one side of the story, so we don't really know
the whole story. And 17 pages of /signed doesn't mean anything...
There was a recent thread saying Blizzard should give everyone a free
month and that got /signed all over the place.
Adam
luong
It's said that the original poster had no communication from the GM's before
he was banned.
Note that I did not say a few purple and blue items. I said that he had way
too many of them. And that probably flagged him for banning.
Sure a lot of people /signed for a free month of gameplay. That didn't
happened did it? I'm sure 17+ pages of /signed isn't going to influence the
GM's to shoot themselves either.
"Adman" <asp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110845971....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Rob Berryhill
says...
> They do this by going through people's account and looking for anything
> suspecious. For example, huge amount of gold and items in inventory. Now
> with that said...
>
> A week ago, someone got banned because of this. A GM looked in his account
> and saw -way- too many golds and blue/purple items. They banned his
> account, no questions asked, no investigation. They just determined that he
> was an EBayer and such.
>
> Now the account holder was beyond pissed. He went to the forums and posted
> his side of the story. Apparently, he was a guildleader of one of the top
> guilds on the server. He held all his guild's loot money and rare/epic
> drops. All passing of any money or items were only circulated within the
> guild. And the worse thing was that it happened about Friday and he had
> scheduled a guild raid for Molten Core the next day. Nothing could be done
> about his situation until the beginning of the week.
This is the biggest load of bullshit this guy gave you, and you bought
it hook, line and sinker. I *GUARANTEE* you they review server logs to
find out how he got the gold, who it is going to, etc. I also guarantee
you that the gold was mysteriously being transferred in 100, 500, 1000
increments, etc.
There is no way they ban monthly subscription fees w/out pulling the
info, and they have information available to them on EVERYTHING that
happnes in the game.
--
Rob Berryhill
luong
Just what he posted on a public forum.
Ah-hmm, and how are you going to *GUARANTEE* this? You don't know what
Blizzard said, and you didn't even read HIS post.
Yes, GUARANTEE away.
"Rob Berryhill" <rob_be...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca000bfc...@news.central.cox.net...
Adam Russell
"luong" <blu...@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
news:m2sZd.11370$N15.744@okepread06...
> Well, if you read my post correctly, he really didn't "give" me anything.
> Just what he posted on a public forum.
>
> Ah-hmm, and how are you going to *GUARANTEE* this? You don't know what
> Blizzard said, and you didn't even read HIS post.
Maybe if you had linked it. You really cant fault people for not reading an
article that you claim exists somewhere in a chaotic forum with 10's of
thousands of posts.
Doppleganger
"Adman" <asp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'd assume chat logs play a big part - if they review an account for
it's convos on line, and they find a lot of "You China?" and "you leave
now", good chance they have a farmer. I've seen discussion where they
say GMs can review conversations, so they must store chat logs for a few
days - although that's got to be massive amounts of text stored
somewhere.
Also, I have a feeling they're putting people in the game undercover,
and buying gold from the sites - one $25 purchase, one Farmer account
and all toons associated gone - Blizzard still got the $50 game
purchase, and the game time used, so it's still profit.
I was thinking about how they could get these guys, the undercover ops
are the best way, if not the only way to really be sure they have a
farmer/courier, and to catch the people in the act.
I just wonder if shutting them down will work, all they do is buy
another account, and start up again. They buy game cards, so no need for
fake credit card numbers. There seems to be big money in farming, so
these guys won;t be chased away easily.
I'm just kind of bothered how many people defend the farmers in the
forums - they just don't get what this will do to the game, and most
likely they're customers.
David Carson
Based on Luong's description, this is not the same person. But here's a
link to a thread on my server's forum where a player complains of having
his account locked pending an investigation into his excessive amount of
gold.
He says later in the thread (post #47) that they unlocked his account
after investigating.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-realm-blackrock&t=37447
I offer no opinion as to whether these claims are true or not - but
they've been made by multiple people on different servers, it seems.
Cheers!
David...
Everett Hickey
news:Ihavenoemail-0123...@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> I'd assume chat logs play a big part - if they review an account for
> it's convos on line, and they find a lot of "You China?" and "you leave
> now", good chance they have a farmer. I've seen discussion where they
> say GMs can review conversations, so they must store chat logs for a few
> days - although that's got to be massive amounts of text stored
> somewhere.
I'm not sure I get the "you leave now" and duel-spamming on "entering their
territory" I've seen in this thread.
Wouldn't this only be directed at other farms? Who would they be chasing
off?
Nabuu
<Ihavenoemail-0123...@news1.east.earthlink.net>,
Doppleganger <Ihaven...@home.net> wrote:
> if they review an account for
> it's convos on line, and they find a lot of "You China?" and "you leave
> now", good chance they have a farmer.
What means "you China?"
> I've seen discussion where they
> say GMs can review conversations, so they must store chat logs for a few
> days - although that's got to be massive amounts of text stored
> somewhere.
It turns out text is really small data, and it compresses even smaller.
> Also, I have a feeling they're putting people in the game undercover,
> and buying gold from the sites - one $25 purchase, one Farmer account
> and all toons associated gone - Blizzard still got the $50 game
> purchase, and the game time used, so it's still profit.
Just FYI, Blizzard gets very little of the $50 purchase, plus they lost
a subscription, so it's a loss. But the game is made better for future
players, so its an investment. And, if they catch the person early
enough, it's paid-subscription without used bandwidth, so that's profit,
too. Just pointing out that Blizz sees very little of your $50 purchase
price -- they make it in subscriptions.
--
Nabuu, Tauren druid on Dethecus.
Also (rarely):
Chum, Gnome warlock, Bronzebeard
Tost, Dwarven rogue, Bronzebeard
Meadow, Night elf priest, Bronzebeard
Harmany, Undead mage, Dethecus
<http://www.ManyFriends.com/WoW/PhotoAlbum/>
Aka "Misc" -- If you don't remove your pants, I won't get your email.
patrick...@standardregister.com
Doppleganger wrote:
>
> I'd assume chat logs play a big part - if they review an account for
> it's convos on line, and they find a lot of "You China?" and "you
leave
> now", good chance they have a farmer. I've seen discussion where they
> say GMs can review conversations, so they must store chat logs for a
few
> days - although that's got to be massive amounts of text stored
> somewhere.
>
What is this "You China?" thing anyway? Yesterday afternoon one of my
guildmates ran into a guy who is widely considered to be a farmer and
was telling the story of how he said "You China?" and stuff and
everyone was laughing about it. I didn't get the joke.
>
> I just wonder if shutting them down will work, all they do is buy
> another account, and start up again. They buy game cards, so no need
for
> fake credit card numbers. There seems to be big money in farming, so
> these guys won;t be chased away easily.
>
I went to Ebay the other day curious to see if anybody was actually
buying this stuff and it sure enough does look like they are. I did a
search on completed auctions with my server name and there was listing
after listing that had ended with "Buy It Now" for gold at about $.25
per gold.
> I'm just kind of bothered how many people defend the farmers in the
> forums - they just don't get what this will do to the game, and most
> likely they're customers.
What will thise do to the game? Farmer farms items & gold and sells
them to some guy who then takes the gold and buys the items the farmer
is selling. I don't see the big problem and I'm certainly no customer.
John Gordon
> What will thise do to the game? Farmer farms items & gold and sells
> them to some guy who then takes the gold and buys the items the farmer
> is selling. I don't see the big problem and I'm certainly no customer.
When your favorite hunting spot is being monopolized by farmers and
there's nothing left for you to kill, you'll see the problem.
When you can't compete with other people your level because they bought
gold from farmers and used it to get all uber equipment, you'll see the
problem.
--
John Gordon "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
gor...@panix.com
luong
that I can't access webpages so I can't link anything to you or click on
anyone else's link.
But yeah, I'm at work, can't access webpages. And when I'm at home, I
rather not try to find the topic to prove my point or whatnot. I'm usually
just playing the game.
"Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote in message
news:39n39iF...@individual.net...
Doppleganger
"Everett Hickey" <eve...@ev1.net> wrote:
> "Doppleganger" <Ihaven...@home.net> wrote in message
> news:Ihavenoemail-0123...@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> > I'd assume chat logs play a big part - if they review an account for
> > it's convos on line, and they find a lot of "You China?" and "you leave
> > now", good chance they have a farmer. I've seen discussion where they
> > say GMs can review conversations, so they must store chat logs for a few
> > days - although that's got to be massive amounts of text stored
> > somewhere.
>
> I'm not sure I get the "you leave now" and duel-spamming on "entering their
> territory" I've seen in this thread.
They actively defend their farms - they do their best to chase away
players who need quests in the area, or want to wander.
> Wouldn't this only be directed at other farms? Who would they be chasing
> off?
You.
Doppleganger
patrick...@standardregister.com wrote:
> Doppleganger wrote:
> >
> > I'd assume chat logs play a big part - if they review an account for
> > it's convos on line, and they find a lot of "You China?" and "you
> leave
> > now", good chance they have a farmer. I've seen discussion where they
>
> > say GMs can review conversations, so they must store chat logs for a
> few
> > days - although that's got to be massive amounts of text stored
> > somewhere.
> >
>
> What is this "You China?" thing anyway? Yesterday afternoon one of my
> guildmates ran into a guy who is widely considered to be a farmer and
> was telling the story of how he said "You China?" and stuff and
> everyone was laughing about it. I didn't get the joke.
Many people have said that upon entering a farmer's territory (or farm),
they will whisper "You China?" to see if you're either A. a Chinese
player, or B. A Chinese farmer.
Your answer will determine their response.
> > I just wonder if shutting them down will work, all they do is buy
> > another account, and start up again. They buy game cards, so no need
> for
> > fake credit card numbers. There seems to be big money in farming, so
> > these guys won;t be chased away easily.
> >
>
> I went to Ebay the other day curious to see if anybody was actually
> buying this stuff and it sure enough does look like they are. I did a
> search on completed auctions with my server name and there was listing
> after listing that had ended with "Buy It Now" for gold at about $.25
> per gold.
I have no doubt people are buying it. Hopefully they're closing those
accounts, too.
> > I'm just kind of bothered how many people defend the farmers in the
> > forums - they just don't get what this will do to the game, and most
> > likely they're customers.
>
> What will thise do to the game? Farmer farms items & gold and sells
> them to some guy who then takes the gold and buys the items the farmer
> is selling. I don't see the big problem and I'm certainly no customer.
It will do plenty - I saw it in DiabloII online, and you can read about
it online, what farming has done to games, and their economies.
Farmers will inflate prices, dilute the value of "special" items,
players will rise too quickly in level because of uber gear, and the
quality of play deteriorates, zones in the game are blocked from
legitimate players to use, players are harrassed, and they use up
bandwidth, which right now with the state of the servers, is precious.
Nabuu
<Ihavenoemail-DBCA...@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
Doppleganger <Ihaven...@home.net> wrote:
> > What is this "You China?" thing anyway? Yesterday afternoon one of my
> > guildmates ran into a guy who is widely considered to be a farmer and
> > was telling the story of how he said "You China?" and stuff and
> > everyone was laughing about it. I didn't get the joke.
> Many people have said that upon entering a farmer's territory (or farm),
> they will whisper "You China?" to see if you're either A. a Chinese
> player, or B. A Chinese farmer.
>
> Your answer will determine their response.
By "Chinese", you mean "from the country, China", right? Or is "Chinese
farmer" some sort of slang I don't get?
So, someone's going to chase me off "their" WoW herb/mineral farm
because I am/am-not Chinese?! Pffft! I'd love to see that...
Adam Russell
"Nabuu" <Nabuu@*YOUR-PANTS*ManyFriends.com> wrote in message
news:Nabuu-11858A....@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> In article
> <Ihavenoemail-DBCA...@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
> Doppleganger <Ihaven...@home.net> wrote:
>
>> > What is this "You China?" thing anyway? Yesterday afternoon one of my
>> > guildmates ran into a guy who is widely considered to be a farmer and
>> > was telling the story of how he said "You China?" and stuff and
>> > everyone was laughing about it. I didn't get the joke.
>
>> Many people have said that upon entering a farmer's territory (or farm),
>> they will whisper "You China?" to see if you're either A. a Chinese
>> player, or B. A Chinese farmer.
>>
>> Your answer will determine their response.
>
> By "Chinese", you mean "from the country, China", right? Or is "Chinese
> farmer" some sort of slang I don't get?
>
> So, someone's going to chase me off "their" WoW herb/mineral farm
> because I am/am-not Chinese?! Pffft! I'd love to see that...
I think the "You China?" line is a BS story made up by racists. I've never
heard it myself, and it seems very unlikely that a chinese coming upon
another chinese would speak broken english to see if they were both chinese.
If he wanted to know if you were chinese he would ask you in chinese.
Alastair Foster
<dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote:
>http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1912793&p=1&tmp
>=1#post1912793
>
>Blizzard appears to be taking a bit of a stand against e-bay type sales.
>Over 1,000 accounts banned for out of game sales of in-game items.
This is a serious question. Dont laugh!
My work friend was about Level 11 in the game. He was having trouble
getting a decent amount of money as the quest rewards are awful at
that level.
We are in McDonalds after work, i have no money. I say to him that i
will give him 30s for a Happy Meal :-)
So umm i have my happy meal, and later on i gave him 30s ingame.
Technically, this is against the rules according to Blizzard. Do you
think i would get banned/flamed if i mentioned this on the official
forums?
Davian
"Alastair Foster" <uncleSPAMMMMMMMM...@btinternet.com> wrote in
message news:f79g31t5320ioij4a...@4ax.com...
Banned, no. Flamed, yes. (Reading the WoW message boards rots your brain,
and makes you post stupid shit.)
Blizzard has much bigger fish to fry than your 30s transaction. (www.ige.com)
If, however, you went back to Mc Donald's, sat down in a chair next to the
register and on a daily basis offered every customer that came in the door WoW
gold in exchange for McCrap sandwiches, and that semi-gelatinous goo that they
have the audacity to call a "milkshake", then it might be a whole 'nother
story.
Byers ex machina
<dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote:
>Banned, no. Flamed, yes. (Reading the WoW message boards rots your brain,
>and makes you post stupid shit.)
>
>Blizzard has much bigger fish to fry than your 30s transaction. (www.ige.com)
>
>If, however, you went back to Mc Donald's, sat down in a chair next to the
>register and on a daily basis offered every customer that came in the door WoW
>gold in exchange for McCrap sandwiches, and that semi-gelatinous goo that they
>have the audacity to call a "milkshake", then it might be a whole 'nother
>story.
*lol*
I like those milkshakes...It's basically the only thing at McDonald's
I'll willingly ingest.
--
byerstheoblivious
Alastair Foster
wrote:
Oh i normally HATE McDonalds. I was just hungry at the time, and the
Happy Meal is the cheapest way to get a meal/drink and a free toy!
/dance
Nabuu
Alastair Foster <uncleSPAMMMMMMMM...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> This is a serious question. Dont laugh!
>
> My work friend was about Level 11 in the game. He was having trouble
> getting a decent amount of money as the quest rewards are awful at
> that level.
>
> We are in McDonalds after work, i have no money. I say to him that i
> will give him 30s for a Happy Meal :-)
>
> So umm i have my happy meal, and later on i gave him 30s ingame.
>
> Technically, this is against the rules according to Blizzard. Do you
> think i would get banned/flamed if i mentioned this on the official
> forums?
Technical violation: yes. But probably not the sort of thing Blizzard
is worried about.
If I sell 100g for $100, several times a week, does that harm the game
and constitute a violation? Yes.
If I sell 1c for 1?, once, does that harm the game and constitute a
violation? Well, yes, but to a much, much smaller degree. The degree
is *so* small that probably nobody cares.
Still, I'd probably boot you from World Of Nabuu just on principle, and
because there are few things I hate more than having to deal with a
bunch of players dancing around the very edge of what they know damned
well they shouldn't be doing, then crying "well you didn't ban *HIM*..."
Hence, I'd have to ban you just to save myself that agony ;)
Ok, ok... a warning, this time -- but don't let it happen again! <G>
Doppleganger
"Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
> "Nabuu" <Nabuu@*YOUR-PANTS*ManyFriends.com> wrote in message
> news:Nabuu-11858A....@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> > In article
> > <Ihavenoemail-DBCA...@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
> > Doppleganger <Ihaven...@home.net> wrote:
> >
> >> > What is this "You China?" thing anyway? Yesterday afternoon one of my
> >> > guildmates ran into a guy who is widely considered to be a farmer and
> >> > was telling the story of how he said "You China?" and stuff and
> >> > everyone was laughing about it. I didn't get the joke.
> >
> >> Many people have said that upon entering a farmer's territory (or farm),
> >> they will whisper "You China?" to see if you're either A. a Chinese
> >> player, or B. A Chinese farmer.
> >>
> >> Your answer will determine their response.
> >
> > By "Chinese", you mean "from the country, China", right? Or is "Chinese
> > farmer" some sort of slang I don't get?
> >
> > So, someone's going to chase me off "their" WoW herb/mineral farm
> > because I am/am-not Chinese?! Pffft! I'd love to see that...
>
> I think the "You China?" line is a BS story made up by racists.
Saying someone is Chinese is NOT racist, as "Chinese" is not a RACE.
That pisses me off, people throw the "racist" tag around when they don't
know what it frikking means. It's getting to the point that if someone
starts using the word, I generally write that person off as a knee-jerk
reactionary, and ignore them.
As for the players, I have'nt seen anyone say it in person, but the
people reporting it in the forums do - take it up with them.
All you haveto do is go look at the auctions in Ebay for WOW gold - I'd
say 90% of them are in, wait a minute, how could this be? - CHINA.
Thus: Chinese Farmers.
It's not racist, it's a legitimate description of a *known* reality.
You might be able to make the arguement that people using the term
"Chinese Farmer" are *bigoted* -but people are'nt saying "Chinese
Farmers" to insult them, it's because - wait for it - they're usually
CHINESE.
I mean, duh!
Plus, if you want to start throwing the word "bigoted" around, i'm going
to counter with "Politically Correct Shithead".
I've never
> heard it myself, and it seems very unlikely that a chinese coming upon
> another chinese would speak broken english to see if they were both chinese.
> If he wanted to know if you were chinese he would ask you in chinese.
Take it up with the people in the forums - their experiences seem to go
against what you believe likely (which, in this case, seems to be your
assumption based on nothing than your conjecture)
I'm not high enough to get to the places these guys farm, but reputable
people on my server say they're there, and I'll be looking for and
REPORTING them when I can.
I think the easiest way to end the issue is to have servers for secific
regions - Koreans get their own, Chinese get their own, US gets their
own, Europe does. Segregate the players, don't let anyone choose servers
outside of their geographic region - most of the Chinese Farmers working
for Canadian Scumbags (IGE) go out of business.
Or, are you going to say that's "racist" too? (rolling eyes)
Adam Russell
Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is racist yes.
Making up a story (if it IS made up) that farmers say "You chinese" is also
racist. I heard the stories that say Aszhara is taken over by chinese
farmers and went out to take a look for myself. First hand evidence is the
best and I saw no problem there (and I did go before the griff nerf). There
were a couple other people there but they did not bother me. There was
plenty of hunting for all. And this was on silver hand which is an
overpopulated server. You sir should not be passing on racist hatemongering
when you have no personal evidence of a 'chinese problem' except what other
people tell you on the forums. Try checking the facts for yourself.
sanjian
news:0peg3193rpi71m4em...@4ax.com...
McDonald's has good food before 10:30 in the morning. The bagle sammiches
are mighty tasty, and the hashbrowns aren't half bad.
However, I never eat there once those hockey pucks they call hamburgers come
out. Every other chain has edible hamburgers, McDonalds has no excuse
(though Burger King has alot to answer for with those fries).
Davian
"Alastair Foster" <uncleSPAMMMMMMMM...@btinternet.com> wrote in
message news:tdfg31170i769evt4...@4ax.com...
To be honest, if you actually ate the Mc Donalds food, I'd say you've been
punished enough.
Doppleganger
"Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
> Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is racist yes.
Yet more proof you have no clue what the word means - yet you throw it
around at the drop of a hat.
Says all I need to know about you.
Argueing this with you is pointless, as you're yet another - yup - you
got it - a Politically Correct Shithead.
> Making up a story (if it IS made up) that farmers say "You chinese" is also
> racist. I heard the stories that say Aszhara is taken over by chinese
> farmers and went out to take a look for myself. First hand evidence is the
> best and I saw no problem there (and I did go before the griff nerf). There
> were a couple other people there but they did not bother me. There was
> plenty of hunting for all. And this was on silver hand which is an
> overpopulated server. You sir should not be passing on racist hatemongering
> when you have no personal evidence of a 'chinese problem' except what other
> people tell you on the forums. Try checking the facts for yourself.
"Racist hatemongering" ROFL. You need to get over yourself, Clarence,
and grow up. Your righteous indignation is just amusing in the face of
the idiocy you're babbling.
So, I guess everyone on the servers is lying, and the farmers that
Blizzard just banned - what was it, oh yeah, 1000 of them - read that
again slowly Clarence, ONE THOUSAND of them, is all lies too, huh?
Oh, I've got you pegged. I know *exactly* who I'm dealing with, and that
makes me laugh even more.
C'mon, prove to us again farmers don't exist - oh, wait, my bad, CHINESE
FARMERS don't exist.
Have fun being a sheep, Clarence. I'll let you waste your time and
energy spluttering and getting your panties all in a bunch over imagined
"racism" - it'll be fun!
M'kay?
Adam Russell
> In article <39rj3oF...@individual.net>,
> "Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
>
>> Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is racist
>> yes.
>
> Yet more proof you have no clue what the word means - yet you throw it
> around at the drop of a hat.
Wanting for people to be divided based on *race* is so obviously a *racist*
sentiment that I dont know how you cannot see it. Or perhaps you really
meant that people of different countries should not play on the same server.
I admit that is technically different than racism, but it is an animal of
the same stripe.
>> Making up a story (if it IS made up) that farmers say "You chinese" is
>> also
>> racist. I heard the stories that say Aszhara is taken over by chinese
>> farmers and went out to take a look for myself. First hand evidence is
>> the
>> best and I saw no problem there (and I did go before the griff nerf).
>> There
>> were a couple other people there but they did not bother me. There was
>> plenty of hunting for all. And this was on silver hand which is an
>> overpopulated server. You sir should not be passing on racist
>> hatemongering
>> when you have no personal evidence of a 'chinese problem' except what
>> other
>> people tell you on the forums. Try checking the facts for yourself.
>
> "Racist hatemongering" ROFL. You need to get over yourself, Clarence,
> and grow up. Your righteous indignation is just amusing in the face of
> the idiocy you're babbling.
>
> So, I guess everyone on the servers is lying, and the farmers that
> Blizzard just banned - what was it, oh yeah, 1000 of them - read that
> again slowly Clarence, ONE THOUSAND of them, is all lies too, huh?
Not *everyone* claimed this. Some did and some others have agreed with me
that they do not see a problem. Blizzard banned 1000 accounts but never
once mentioned that they were all chinese.
Everett Hickey
> In article <39rj3oF...@individual.net>,
> "Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
>
> > Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is racist
yes.
>
> Yet more proof you have no clue what the word means - yet you throw it
> around at the drop of a hat.
>
> Says all I need to know about you.
>
> Argueing this with you is pointless, as you're yet another - yup - you
> got it - a Politically Correct Shithead.
>
>
> "Racist hatemongering" ROFL. You need to get over yourself, Clarence,
> and grow up. Your righteous indignation is just amusing in the face of
> the idiocy you're babbling.
>
> So, I guess everyone on the servers is lying, and the farmers that
> Blizzard just banned - what was it, oh yeah, 1000 of them - read that
> again slowly Clarence, ONE THOUSAND of them, is all lies too, huh?
>
> Oh, I've got you pegged. I know *exactly* who I'm dealing with, and that
> makes me laugh even more.
>
> C'mon, prove to us again farmers don't exist - oh, wait, my bad, CHINESE
> FARMERS don't exist.
>
> Have fun being a sheep, Clarence. I'll let you waste your time and
> energy spluttering and getting your panties all in a bunch over imagined
> "racism" - it'll be fun!
Other than slightly faulty circular logic, I think I may see the point
you're trying to make... however, your ability to argue a point doesn't seem
to exist since you're more interesting in insulting the guy than explaining
anything to him. In fact, after you cut out the posturing, your post
honestly didn't give any real content except your opinion of Clarence.
For the record, however, I recall in Ultima Online back in 98 or so how we
had similar issues with a large number of people who spoke no english, and
which Origin admitted were primarily comming from asian players, who had a
tendency to play the game like a constant game of quake, barely interacted
with eachother as far as we could tell, and turned out to be primarily
farmers in what was then a newly booming "buy my gold" industry. They
weren't "chinese", as Origin identified much of the problems as comming from
N. Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Japan, China, and other countries in that
area - most likely because that sort of farming issue had been there long
before we ever became aware of it, and has been a major griping point for
asian rpg's (some of which have had the largest player bases of all time).
In time many other asian markets got tapped and you had a great number of
legitimate players from that area, but the first ones we actually saw were,
indeed, farmers and "Quakers".
So, on one hand, yes there are probably a significant number of "chinese
farmers" - and trust me, they have no monopoly - as well as people from all
over that region. Then again, it's also very common in THIS country this
time around, so you can no longer think of them as "chinese farmers" when
it's only a segment of the population that qualifies for that.
So suggesting that there are a lot of chinese players there to farm isn't
racist, if you have significant reason to believe they originate from China
as a trend. The term "chinese farmers" doesn't (hopefully) imply that they
all are, it just refers to a significant slice (sort like like "newbie
teens" - idiot players under the age of 18 who shouldn't be allowed a net
connection yet). I suppose it also brings into question how many actual
playing players originate from China - I have no information on that but
suspect there are a great many for every farmer. If it were found that only
few people connect from China, and virtually all turn out to be just
farming, and they weren't marketing in China, maybe THEN you'd have reason
to block out connections - much like how many cc merchants won't authorize
online from Indonesian ip's, etc. If it turned out that there were at
least half as many (probably MUCH greater) regular players comming in from
China, then you simply put up with the farmers who come with them - clean up
your own backyard before you start on anyone elses, in other words.
However, if you have no interest in anything except the fact that there are
Chinese found among the farmers, then yeah, that'd qualify as being a bit
racist. And misguided. We have to start with the europeans (I KNOW they're
out there dammit!) and hatemonger on them first, get your priorities
straight man!
Just call them
"international-asshole-game-fucker-uppers-who-should-be-banned-then-skinned-
alive" and be done with it.
Doppleganger
"Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
> "Doppleganger" <Ihaven...@home.net> wrote in message
> news:Ihavenoemail-6C63...@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> > In article <39rj3oF...@individual.net>,
> > "Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is racist
> >> yes.
> >
> > Yet more proof you have no clue what the word means - yet you throw it
> > around at the drop of a hat.
>
> Wanting for people to be divided based on *race* is so obviously a *racist*
> sentiment that I dont know how you cannot see it. Or perhaps you really
> meant that people of different countries should not play on the same server.
> I admit that is technically different than racism, but it is an animal of
> the same stripe.
And you're letting your knee-jerk sheep training let you paint with the
broadest brush throwing around a term you don't know the meaning of,
without *bothering* to reason out what my suggestion implied or what
ideas it's based on, you addled-headed idiot.
Never ONCE did I make any statement that I think Chinese people are
inferior or that I hate them or think ill of them - THAT is raciscm,
little boy.
Segregating Chinese players on their own servers - which is NOT a new
concept, as Blizzard did it for Diablo II, which you'd know if you'd
drop your PC posturing and *think* about the issue - would fix the
problem for one big, obvious reason you can't seem to grasp:
My suggestion was based on *economics*, dummy. If the farmers and their
Canadian bosses (interesting you don't defend Canadians...) *can't* get
onto US servers to sell their warez - tada - problem solved.
It has nothing to do with racism, you annoying little prat.
But if you'd rather parade on your little high horse and spout nonsense,
feel free - you do have that right - but don't go around accusing people
of things they are *NOT* doing. You know nothing about me, MY race, my
background, or my attitudes towards people, yet you whip out that
ever-so popular word among Politically Correct Shitheads, and accuse ME
of being racist. Aw, look at the cute little sheep honking out his PC
prattle. Baah baah baah baah!
Bah.
It's people like you that make the world suck in ways you'll never
understand because your head is so far up your ass.
The game has a legitimate problem that's effected many other MMOGs, and
we get PC shitheads like you accusing people of racism - it's such
complete idiocy it makes you want to cry.
> >> Making up a story (if it IS made up) that farmers say "You chinese" is
> >> also
> >> racist. I heard the stories that say Aszhara is taken over by chinese
> >> farmers and went out to take a look for myself. First hand evidence is
> >> the
> >> best and I saw no problem there (and I did go before the griff nerf).
> >> There
> >> were a couple other people there but they did not bother me. There was
> >> plenty of hunting for all. And this was on silver hand which is an
> >> overpopulated server. You sir should not be passing on racist
> >> hatemongering
> >> when you have no personal evidence of a 'chinese problem' except what
> >> other
> >> people tell you on the forums. Try checking the facts for yourself.
> >
> > "Racist hatemongering" ROFL. You need to get over yourself, Clarence,
> > and grow up. Your righteous indignation is just amusing in the face of
> > the idiocy you're babbling.
> >
> > So, I guess everyone on the servers is lying, and the farmers that
> > Blizzard just banned - what was it, oh yeah, 1000 of them - read that
> > again slowly Clarence, ONE THOUSAND of them, is all lies too, huh?
>
> Not *everyone* claimed this. Some did and some others have agreed with me
> that they do not see a problem. Blizzard banned 1000 accounts but never
> once mentioned that they were all chinese.
Oh, so just because Blizzard doesnt tell you every detail of the
bannings, you choose not to believe there's a problem.
How special.
We'll ignore that it's in their self interest legally not to say a
word, to prevent lawsuits, but a little sheep like you can't see THAT
forest for your PC trees anyway.
Go ahead and stick your head back in the sand Clarence, don't let the
realities of the big bad world bother your wooly little butt. Go ahead
and slander people with the racsim tag when you have no right to, but
just understand that people like ME don't appreciate it and will take
you to task every time, even though I know in my heart it won't stop you
sniveling and whining and being a Politically Correct Shithead.
YOU may not think there's a problem, but most of the people who play are
seeing it, and will continue to fight it - myself included.
Trooper
> Other than slightly faulty circular logic, I think I may see the point
> you're trying to make...
<snip logic>
I think his point is actually a lot simpler than that, however much I
disagree with his debating skills ;)
China isn't a race.
--
Trooper
use...@trooperlooper.co.uk.invalid (remove the obvious)
Frank E
wrote:
>Segregating Chinese players on their own servers - which is NOT a new
>concept, as Blizzard did it for Diablo II, which you'd know if you'd
>drop your PC posturing and *think* about the issue - would fix the
>problem for one big, obvious reason you can't seem to grasp:
>
>My suggestion was based on *economics*, dummy. If the farmers and their
>Canadian bosses (interesting you don't defend Canadians...) *can't* get
>onto US servers to sell their warez - tada - problem solved.
>
Do you honestly think that would have a snowball's chance in hell of
working? Any idiot could come up with half a dozen ways around that.
Rgds, Frank
Adam Russell
You know nothing about me, MY race, my
> background, or my attitudes towards people, yet you whip out that
> ever-so popular word among Politically Correct Shitheads, and accuse ME
> of being racist.
What I know of you comes purely from what I read here. You believed people
when they told you the farming problem exists and it is the chinese who are
to blame, without any actual evidence to back it up. This indicates either
a naivete or an actual bias. When I informed you that I actually checked on
the story about chinese farmers hogging the Azshara and found it to be
false, then you resorted to insults. That makes me believe that this is not
a case of naivete but actual malice. If you wanted to be fair then you
would be expected to check the facts before you called for a division of
peoples.
Note though that I never actually called YOU a racist. I dont know that
even with this evidence. You do seem almost eager to believe that chinese
are to blame (and for a problem that you have never even seen in wow).
That's nice that you say you dont hate chinese. Now try to treat them
fairly by not making judgements without knowledge.
Adam Russell
"Trooper" <ne...@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca3b0cc2...@news.individual.net...
> Everett Hickey loved her ferret enough to say...
>
>> Other than slightly faulty circular logic, I think I may see the point
>> you're trying to make...
>
> <snip logic>
>
> I think his point is actually a lot simpler than that, however much I
> disagree with his debating skills ;)
>
> China isn't a race.
Good one. Discrimination based on race or country of origin....
Same animal with different stripes.
Everett Hickey
If you're discriminating because they're "diffurnt for'nerz" from a specific
country, that's one thing. It may be something else to target a specific
country for it's laws, gameplay patterns that may be specific primarily to
it, politics, etc. I THINK what Doppleganger is trying to say (or say he
means at any rate) is that he's targetting it in that manner, and not the
fact that they're "of chinese origin". I'm inclined to agree on one point -
sometimes national or racial labels have to be applied simply to identify
who you're talking about. That doesn't necessarily imply that you're
generalizing that entire country or race (though, actually, HE did seem to a
bit).
If he means that farming is excessively rampant among chinese players, and
has information that at least suggests that actual game players aren't
comming in from China, just farmers, then he'd be justified in blaming it on
the quality of the current crop of chinese wow players, on a market level.
If he just means "those chinese" as an idiotic way of saying "those asian
guys", or if he's just ragging on an easy cultural target out of frustration
over farmers in general (who come from all over the world, including - and
most likely especially - the US), then that's entering the realm of racism
(which can apply to the populace of a country, not just a specific race, as
there are no well delineated "races" in existance). For instance, if I
command you to go kill all the french, because [insert generalized rationale
here, that can apply to anyone including the target], that's racism - no
political or intellectual reasoning, nothing that has specifically to do
with national politics or even cultural differences (which is NOT racism).
If I start howling for war against Country X because I don't like the way
they run things, that's not racism because I wouldn't care what they look
like or who they're related to - it's political or economic.
Disliking someone over cultural differences does not constitute racism, as
it's not how they look that's at issue, but the society they come from and
support. You have to admit, you might be a bit leary of someone who you
found out grew up in a tribe of cannibalistic headshrinkers - you'd be
prejudiced, even just a little... partially because SOME prejudice, having
some sort of template to apply, is a logical necessity for any human
interaction, but also because you know their cultural values are different
from your own.
Now, disliking that person's cultural differences is not always bad - you
may simply disagree, having been raised elsewhere. But there is a different
term for disliking someone's nationality or culture on a personal level -
not racism, but bigotry (which racism falls under, but they are not the same
thing at all).
You come over to the house of a brand new neighbor, who happens to be
recently moved from southeast asia. They're having dinner - a dog. No,
it's not a common thing throughout the area, but it's normal and perfectly
acceptable in many areas, just not around here. Honestly, how would you
feel about someone eating a dog? Intellectually, you may catch yourself and
recognize it as simply a different culture, but you know you'd still be a
bit put off and would be influenced a bit towards that person, strictly on
the basis on local cultural taboos. You would, after that, most likely be a
little less eager to get to know that person, at least at first. The thing
that would make you a bigot is when you simply decide you don't want to know
the person because his people are dog-eaters - they must be, because he just
cooked one up. Most people will fall somewhere between accepting it (total
absolute acceptance of everything being a bit of a flaw in itself), and
being a bigot about it. Personally, I'd be pretty blunt about it - pointing
out that it's legal (I think) but not something they want to advertise. I
wouldn't cast them off as discard, but I'd feel a little trepidation at the
idea of them preparing a meal for me.
(an before people start up with all the Vietnamese dog-eating jokes, it was
never considered "normal" in that country - it was the equivilant of eating
rats when desperate. Now, Thailand and other areas around there, it's a
different story).
Adam Russell
"Everett Hickey" <eve...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:113jen8...@corp.supernews.com...
I will agree that IF there is a chinese problem then dividing players based
on country is not racist. By his own admission he has no personal knowledge
to back up that belief besides having read a few posts on the blizzard
forums. A bias towards believing bad things about other races without
decent evidence is very likely a sign of racism.
Of course all that is true. But when someone tells you "Chinese do bad
things. We need to do something about them", and you start *repeating*
those words without checking facts and despite other people telling you "No
that rumor is not true" then yes you may be a racist. (Using you in the
general term not you specifically) A good definition of racism is a bias
toward prejudgement (prejudice) based on race. If you need to judge then
base your judgements on facts, not rumor.
CymTyr
> based on country is not racist. By his own admission he has no personal
> knowledge to back up that belief besides having read a few posts on the
> blizzard forums. A bias towards believing bad things about other races
> without decent evidence is very likely a sign of racism.
Okay, let me step in and clarify something for you: I do not have much proof
about the Asian farmers in WoW, but I do have personal experience with
Lineage 2. I know FOR A FACT that there are at least as many farmers per L2
server as there are gamers. I also know FOR A FACT that the vast majority
of these farmers (a good portion of whom work for IGE) are Chinese. Why do I
know this? Because they make it a point to let gamers know where they're
from. They're proud of their country, and they want you to know where they
come from.
<snip>
>
> Of course all that is true. But when someone tells you "Chinese do bad
> things. We need to do something about them", and you start *repeating*
> those words without checking facts and despite other people telling you
> "No that rumor is not true" then yes you may be a racist. (Using you in
> the general term not you specifically) A good definition of racism is a
> bias toward prejudgement (prejudice) based on race. If you need to judge
> then base your judgements on facts, not rumor.
I have based my judgement on facts. There tends to be a trend where if
something is happening in one particular setting (such as a MMORG) then it
will happen in similar settings, ad infinitum. I would be willing to bet
that a good portion of the farmers that do exist in WoW come from China, but
not all of them.
I truly believe that only Australia and New Zealand should have access to NA
servers outside of NA. As I said I base this on facts I have collected not
necessarily from WoW (although I have seen farmers in Wow, and they have
admitted to being Asian), but primarily on Lineage 2 experience.
By the way, it's also a FACT on Lineage 2 that the majority of botters come
from Asian IP's.
Before you call me a racist or a bigot, bear in mind I have reached my
judgement out of personal experience and facts. I personally have nothing
against Asians. And for the record, I >loathe< Lineage 2. On my server, you
literally can't go anywhere on the map without running into Asian farmers.
Sad, but true. The only reason I still play it is because of my clan and my
alliance.
Even so, I may cancel my subscription soon. At least Blizz has started to
ban accounts. L2 is run by NCSoft, a Korean-based company, and they have
done absolutely nothing about it.
Peace and chicken grease!
-Cym
Everett Hickey
news:Vfn_d.15615$ZE5.4952@fed1read03...
> Okay, let me step in and clarify something for you: I do not have much
proof
> about the Asian farmers in WoW, but I do have personal experience with
> Lineage 2. I know FOR A FACT that there are at least as many farmers per
L2
> server as there are gamers. I also know FOR A FACT that the vast majority
> of these farmers (a good portion of whom work for IGE) are Chinese. Why do
I
> know this? Because they make it a point to let gamers know where they're
> from. They're proud of their country, and they want you to know where they
> come from.
>
I may be thinking of the wrong game... but wouldn't all these numbers be
because Lineage and Lineage 2 have an overwhelmingly predominant South
Korean, Chinese, etc player base? It'd be particularly strange if any
population segment, good and bad, wasn't dominated by those nationalities.
It'd be a bit like saying that American WoW players should be moved to their
own servers, because the vast majority of asshats, mental-midgets, gankers,
and other riffraff all just so happen to be American.
Adam Russell
>> based on country is not racist. By his own admission he has no personal
>> knowledge to back up that belief besides having read a few posts on the
>> blizzard forums. A bias towards believing bad things about other races
>> without decent evidence is very likely a sign of racism.
>
> Okay, let me step in and clarify something for you: I do not have much
> proof about the Asian farmers in WoW, but I do have personal experience
> with Lineage 2. I know FOR A FACT that there are at least as many farmers
> per L2 server as there are gamers. I also know FOR A FACT that the vast
> majority of these farmers (a good portion of whom work for IGE) are
> Chinese. Why do I know this? Because they make it a point to let gamers
> know where they're from. They're proud of their country, and they want you
> to know where they come from.
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Of course all that is true. But when someone tells you "Chinese do bad
>> things. We need to do something about them", and you start *repeating*
>> those words without checking facts and despite other people telling you
>> "No that rumor is not true" then yes you may be a racist. (Using you
>> in the general term not you specifically) A good definition of racism is
>> a bias toward prejudgement (prejudice) based on race. If you need to
>> judge then base your judgements on facts, not rumor.
>
> I have based my judgement on facts. There tends to be a trend where if
> something is happening in one particular setting (such as a MMORG) then it
> will happen in similar settings, ad infinitum.
It would *seem* logical but the facts do not bear it out. In fact there
does seem to be far less of a problem with farmers in wow than in Lineage.
You probably jumped the gun calling for a solution before seeing a problem
because of your bad experience in lineage.
>I would be willing to bet that a good portion of the farmers that do exist
>in WoW come from China, but not all of them.
>
> I truly believe that only Australia and New Zealand should have access to
> NA servers outside of NA. As I said I base this on facts I have collected
> not necessarily from WoW (although I have seen farmers in Wow, and they
> have admitted to being Asian), but primarily on Lineage 2 experience.
>
> By the way, it's also a FACT on Lineage 2 that the majority of botters
> come from Asian IP's.
>
> Before you call me a racist or a bigot, bear in mind I have reached my
> judgement out of personal experience and facts. I personally have nothing
> against Asians. And for the record, I >loathe< Lineage 2. On my server,
> you literally can't go anywhere on the map without running into Asian
> farmers. Sad, but true. The only reason I still play it is because of my
> clan and my alliance.
Dont judge wow based on lineage then. They are far different. Just because
farming is a big problem in lineage does not mean that it will be just such
a problem in any other mmorpg. From my understanding (some hearsay some
experience) lineage 2 is far worse than any game before or since. It is
outstanding. Wow on the other hand may have the least problem with farmers
of all of the (successful) mmorpgs.
Doppleganger
Frank E <fakea...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Not really, it was just an idea.
Not really worth in depth discussion of, and hardly worth being called a
racist over. One might see why I'm a tad pissed off.
Doppleganger
Trooper <ne...@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
> Everett Hickey loved her ferret enough to say...
>
> > Other than slightly faulty circular logic, I think I may see the point
> > you're trying to make...
>
> <snip logic>
>
> I think his point is actually a lot simpler than that, however much I
> disagree with his debating skills ;)
>
> China isn't a race.
Thank you.
Yes, I was using overblown hyperbole...ah, screw it - I was doing the
drama queen bit and using the same kind of loaded language that was
being thrown at me, I just used it differently. It's fun to push his
obvious buttons for amusement, I was trolling to see who I was dealing
with (and maybe get a meltdown) - and now I know exactly what I'm
dealing with, and I know from past experience people like him don't
listen, will not listen, won't admit to being wrong even if the evidence
is there, and will use anything to prop up their smug condescending
judgements.
I don't like being called a racist, especially over something as stupid
as this - and I'll continue to mock and screw with those who do. I just
realized this is the wrong place for it, this is about a game, so I'll
keep it at a civilized tone and killfile the little worm....er...poster.
Like someone said, never try to teach a pig to sing, it makes you look
ridiculous, and annoys the pig.
I'm done being an asshole, it was amusing, but in the end, pointless. My
apologies, back to the regularly scheduled arguements about the honor
system.
Doppleganger
"Everett Hickey" <eve...@ev1.net> wrote:
> Other than slightly faulty circular logic, I think I may see the point
> you're trying to make... however, your ability to argue a point doesn't seem
> to exist since you're more interesting in insulting the guy than explaining
> anything to him. In fact, after you cut out the posturing, your post
> honestly didn't give any real content except your opinion of Clarence.
You callin' me an asshole?
:)
> For the record, however, I recall in Ultima Online back in 98 or so how we
> had similar issues with a large number of people who spoke no english, and
> which Origin admitted were primarily comming from asian players, who had a
> tendency to play the game like a constant game of quake, barely interacted
> with eachother as far as we could tell, and turned out to be primarily
> farmers in what was then a newly booming "buy my gold" industry. They
> weren't "chinese", as Origin identified much of the problems as comming from
> N. Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Japan, China, and other countries in that
> area - most likely because that sort of farming issue had been there long
> before we ever became aware of it, and has been a major griping point for
> asian rpg's (some of which have had the largest player bases of all time).
> In time many other asian markets got tapped and you had a great number of
> legitimate players from that area, but the first ones we actually saw were,
> indeed, farmers and "Quakers".
>
> So, on one hand, yes there are probably a significant number of "chinese
> farmers" - and trust me, they have no monopoly - as well as people from all
> over that region. Then again, it's also very common in THIS country this
> time around, so you can no longer think of them as "chinese farmers" when
> it's only a segment of the population that qualifies for that.
I think it has more to do with the companies that hire them find more
willing employees in China than others. This could change. It probably
will.
But right now, all evidence points to China.
> So suggesting that there are a lot of chinese players there to farm isn't
> racist, if you have significant reason to believe they originate from China
> as a trend. The term "chinese farmers" doesn't (hopefully) imply that they
> all are, it just refers to a significant slice (sort like like "newbie
> teens" - idiot players under the age of 18 who shouldn't be allowed a net
> connection yet). I suppose it also brings into question how many actual
> playing players originate from China - I have no information on that but
> suspect there are a great many for every farmer. If it were found that only
> few people connect from China, and virtually all turn out to be just
> farming, and they weren't marketing in China, maybe THEN you'd have reason
> to block out connections - much like how many cc merchants won't authorize
> online from Indonesian ip's, etc. If it turned out that there were at
> least half as many (probably MUCH greater) regular players comming in from
> China, then you simply put up with the farmers who come with them - clean up
> your own backyard before you start on anyone elses, in other words.
It was just an idea, maybe not workable, but hardly racist. Hardly worth
argueing - Blizzard will deal with it, or they won't.
But accuse me of being a racist, when I'm not, I'm going to be pissed,
and I'm going to be an asshole.
I promise it.
I do NOT take accusations like that lightly, I do NOT back down from a
fight, and I do NOT take kindly to someone judging me like that, and
using VERY loaded language to imply things about me.
I see a lot of the same thing on the servers, and it's just as
ridiculous there. It's an attempt to shame people into silence, and it's
utterly bullshit, if not slightly fascistic.
> However, if you have no interest in anything except the fact that there are
> Chinese found among the farmers, then yeah, that'd qualify as being a bit
> racist. And misguided. We have to start with the europeans (I KNOW they're
> out there dammit!) and hatemonger on them first, get your priorities
> straight man!
Of course there are more than likely other nationalities farming, but
right now, the majority of farmers in WOW seems to be from China -
looking at the origin of sellers on eBay points that out quickly, as
does the articles I've read where they interviewed Chinese nationals who
were hired to farm WOW, specifically. Other players have spoken to the
farmers, people who speak Chinese, and they say the farmers admit
readily to being Chinese, and to be doing the activity of farming as a
paid job.
Look, if the majority of farmers was coming from Poland, they'd be
Polish Farmers - would this ridiculous campaign of racism accusations be
happening? I tend to doubt it. What if it were Irish? British? From New
Jersey?
Besides, the whole thing at first was'nt about wether they exist or not,
Clarence threw that in his attempt to deflect from the fact that what I
was proposing was in no way racist, and he was moving the goalposts to
avoid admitting he was, in fact, wrong. It's a very typical debate
tactic of the lazy and the intellectually dishonest.
He decided to take the "I don't see it so it don't exist, and I'm going
to stick my fingers in my ears and go "nayh nyah nyah"" posture later...
which is bs anyway, taking a quick look at ANY WOW forum, the presence
of the farmers from the land called China comes up, a lot. It's been
written about in the media, and more articles are being written - one
journalist from USA Today was trolling forums looking for material.
> Just call them
> "international-asshole-game-fucker-uppers-who-should-be-banned-then-skinned-
> alive" and be done with it.
"Farmers" works, but I, like many people, see that the majority of
people being hired are from China. That in no way implies anything
racist about the Chinese or China, it just points to Chinese nationals
being hired to farm video games.
Of course, from what I see on the forums, people are even getting upset
at the term "farmers".
The mind boggles.
Video-Game-Forum
The movie/documentary "Supersize Me"....nuff said.
--
Whisky
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.video-game-forum.net/showthread.php?t=15776
rlpyburn
">
> Okay, let me step in and clarify something for you: I do not have much
proof
> about the Asian farmers in WoW, but I do have personal experience with
> Lineage 2. I know FOR A FACT that there are at least as many farmers per
L2
> server as there are gamers. I also know FOR A FACT that the vast majority
> of these farmers (a good portion of whom work for IGE) are Chinese. Why do
I
> know this? Because they make it a point to let gamers know where they're
> from. They're proud of their country, and they want you to know where they
> come from.
>
>
I've experienced this problem numerous times on DAOC, haven't yet on wow,
but that doesn't mean it's not happening here or won't start if there is
real money to be made and yes those that were doing it were from Asian
countries, mostly Chinese by their own admission.
patrick...@standardregister.com
Adam Russell wrote:
>
> Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is
racist yes.
Long as Americans aren't allowed on the Chinese server either, it seems
fair to me. What's wrong with different servers for different regions
of the world?
> overpopulated server. You sir should not be passing on racist
hatemongering
> when you have no personal evidence of a 'chinese problem' except what
other
> people tell you on the forums.
Racist hatemongering? Man, that's a little extreme isn't it? We're
not talking concentration camps and gas chambers here. It's a computer
game fer cryin out loud.
Adam Russell
<patrick...@standardregister.com> wrote in message
news:1111154106.7...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Adam Russell wrote:
>>
>> Saying you think chinese should not be allowed on your server is
> racist yes.
>
> Long as Americans aren't allowed on the Chinese server either, it seems
> fair to me. What's wrong with different servers for different regions
> of the world?
Look up "Separate but equal". If it is done for an decent reason then fine.
But if it is done because someone says we need protection from the bad
chinese, then it may be unfair. Depending on if we do indeed need
protection.
>> overpopulated server. You sir should not be passing on racist
> hatemongering
>> when you have no personal evidence of a 'chinese problem' except what
> other
>> people tell you on the forums.
>
> Racist hatemongering? Man, that's a little extreme isn't it? We're
> not talking concentration camps and gas chambers here. It's a computer
> game fer cryin out loud.
Lets see, spreading rumors about the bad things Chinese do to us. What
would you call it?
David Carson
> Of course there are more than likely other nationalities farming, but
> right now, the majority of farmers in WOW seems to be from China -
> looking at the origin of sellers on eBay points that out quickly, as
> does the articles I've read where they interviewed Chinese nationals who
> were hired to farm WOW, specifically. Other players have spoken to the
> farmers, people who speak Chinese, and they say the farmers admit
> readily to being Chinese, and to be doing the activity of farming as a
> paid job.
>
> Look, if the majority of farmers was coming from Poland, they'd be
> Polish Farmers - would this ridiculous campaign of racism accusations be
> happening? I tend to doubt it. What if it were Irish? British? From New
> Jersey?
I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up about these allegedly
Chinese farmers when it should be perfectly clear that the real problem
is all the goddamn yanks buying the gold! If we could just segregate
Americans onto their own servers, everyone else could enjoy the game
without all this farming and ebaying.
<runs and hides>
Cheers!
David...
Everett Hickey
news:423b3e14$0$29768$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
> I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up about these allegedly
> Chinese farmers when it should be perfectly clear that the real problem
> is all the goddamn yanks buying the gold! If we could just segregate
> Americans onto their own servers, everyone else could enjoy the game
> without all this farming and ebaying.
>
> <runs and hides>
<MUSIC style="Top Gun Theme">
<BACKGROUND = "American Flag">
America, love it or leave it, buddy...
We need to purge the foreign influence from our servers, and make it safe
for Americans!
It's time to gather up our forces and fend off the Hoar- I mean Commie
invasion!
</MUSIC style="fadeout">
Rave
Doppleganger Wrote:
> Saying someone is Chinese is NOT racist, as "Chinese" is not a RACE.
> That pisses me off, people throw the "racist" tag around when they
> don't
> know what it frikking means. It's getting to the point that if someone
> starts using the word, I generally write that person off as a
> knee-jerk
> reactionary, and ignore them.
>
because "nigger" is not a RACE?
--
Rave. via www.savageforums.com
J.D. Spangler
Straw man, party of one?
Chinese is a designation of nationality/ethnicity, just like American
or Canadian. Nigger is a derogatory term.
Arguing whether saying gold farmers are all Chinese is racist is a
semi-valid point. Saying that the designation "Chinese" itself is
racist isn't.
--
Regards,
J.D. Spangler
Rave
I didn't say it was. I didn't say anything about it.
--
Rave. via www.savageforums.com
Marsh Lion
> I think the easiest way to end the issue is to have servers for secific
> regions - Koreans get their own, Chinese get their own, US gets their
> own, Europe does. Segregate the players, don't let anyone choose servers
> outside of their geographic region - most of the Chinese Farmers working
> for Canadian Scumbags (IGE) go out of business.
While I don't agree with farming and ebay auctions etc, I'm not too keen on
the segregation of Servers. I am in New Zealand, and according to BNet
segregations, I should use the Asian server but as I have the english games
(and can only speak english) I can not understand anything that is said. You
will also get people buying it on ebay such as the europeans playing on the
US Servers
--
Marsh Lion
Life is an audition
The show is heaven
Are you in?
Everett Hickey
news:Rave....@no-mx.savageforums.com...
Erm... that does refer to a race (even if it doesn't differentiate between
a number of races, going more by general skin tone).
"Chinese" is either a reference to people from China, or it's a redneck
reference for anyone with slanty eyes. Not the same thing.
sanjian
>> Doppleganger Wrote:
>> > Saying someone is Chinese is NOT racist, as "Chinese" is not a RACE.
>> > That pisses me off, people throw the "racist" tag around when they
>> > don't
>> > know what it frikking means. It's getting to the point that if someone
>> > starts using the word, I generally write that person off as a
>> > knee-jerk
>> > reactionary, and ignore them.
>> >
>> Let me get this straight, if I call someone "nigger" it's not racist
>> because "nigger" is not a RACE?
>
> Erm... that does refer to a race (even if it doesn't differentiate
> between
> a number of races, going more by general skin tone).
>
> "Chinese" is either a reference to people from China, or it's a redneck
> reference for anyone with slanty eyes. Not the same thing.
/rolls eyes
I love how people complain about stereotyping and then turn around and
sterotype others in the same sentence. On behalf of all proud redneck out
there, /rude.
Everett Hickey
news:lkI%d.68690$755.51943@lakeread05...
As a person of significant redneck heritage, I am excused from any
implications of stereotyping said heritage. I've got my note right here,
somewhere inside this trailer.
sanjian
> "sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com> wrote in message
> news:lkI%d.68690$755.51943@lakeread05...
>> "Everett Hickey" <eve...@ev1.net> wrote in message
>> news:113to9m...@corp.supernews.com...
>> > "Chinese" is either a reference to people from China, or it's a redneck
>> > reference for anyone with slanty eyes. Not the same thing.
>>
>> /rolls eyes
>>
>> I love how people complain about stereotyping and then turn around and
>> sterotype others in the same sentence. On behalf of all proud redneck
>> out
>> there, /rude.
>
> As a person of significant redneck heritage, I am excused from any
> implications of stereotyping said heritage. I've got my note right here,
> somewhere inside this trailer.
It doens't mean you don't look like an utter jackass. But you seem to be
good at that, today.
patrick...@standardregister.com
Adam Russell wrote:
> <patrick...@standardregister.com> wrote in message
> > Racist hatemongering? Man, that's a little extreme isn't it?
We're
> > not talking concentration camps and gas chambers here. It's a
computer
> > game fer cryin out loud.
>
> Lets see, spreading rumors about the bad things Chinese do to us.
What
> would you call it?
Let's see. I'd call it "mostly harmless" probably, maybe
"insensitive". But "racist hatemongering" is over the top. As I said,
it is a computer game. Some guy says that Chinese people are farming
items in a computer game and that makes him a racist hatemongerer?
Should we put shoplifters up against a firing squad too? Life
imprisonment for jaywalking? Too much of a good thing turns it into a
bad thing. There's a point where anti-discrimination goes so far as to
itself become intolerant fanaticism that persecutes innocent people.
Doppelganger is not some sort of heinous criminal. He's just a guy and
it's obvious from the context of his messages that he meant no harm to
the nation of China or its inhabitants.
Everett Hickey
Double... negative... overload..... headache...
Adam Russell
<patrick...@standardregister.com> wrote in message
news:1111505910.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Adam Russell wrote:
>> <patrick...@standardregister.com> wrote in message
>> > Racist hatemongering? Man, that's a little extreme isn't it?
> We're
>> > not talking concentration camps and gas chambers here. It's a
> computer
>> > game fer cryin out loud.
>>
>> Lets see, spreading rumors about the bad things Chinese do to us.
> What
>> would you call it?
>
> Let's see. I'd call it "mostly harmless" probably, maybe
> "insensitive". But "racist hatemongering" is over the top. As I said,
> it is a computer game. Some guy says that Chinese people are farming
> items in a computer game and that makes him a racist hatemongerer?
> Should we put shoplifters up against a firing squad too?
No, but it seems like you would think it wrong-headed if I called them
thieves.
> Life
> imprisonment for jaywalking? Too much of a good thing turns it into a
> bad thing. There's a point where anti-discrimination goes so far as to
> itself become intolerant fanaticism that persecutes innocent people.
> Doppelganger is not some sort of heinous criminal. He's just a guy and
> it's obvious from the context of his messages that he meant no harm to
> the nation of China or its inhabitants.
No harm except to perpetuate a racist stereotype and to try to exclude them
from american servers. Do a search for "separate but equal". Personally, I
like the idea that I can play with people from all over the world. As far
as doppleganger goes, I never persecuted him as you imply. I just named
what I see him doing as I see it. He can choose to listen and learn, or he
can choose to continue spreading 'racist' rumors.
Everett Hickey
news:1111505910.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Semantics aside, I honestly don't think the original statement was
particularly racist... there's just bored people looking for something to
argue about (like me). I think his mistake was just in generalizing it on
China, specifically.
There are farmers from all over, but for a number of reasons it's a very
common thing throughout many countries in the far east. Social differences
have been a part of MMORPG's since Ultima Online (where the term Quake Ninja
was a slightly perjorative term applied towards a specific type of (usually)
asian player who seemed to have no interest in anything but pvp - even other
asian players complained, just like we do about ours, but it was far more
widespread over there it seemed). I have no idea why the online games in
that part of the world are so heavily marred by rampant farming/selling,
even compared to the worst over here. They aparently have an avid buyer
market as well, as many of the games I've heard of suffering from
over-farming were either not available here or never very popular here.
That said, I think his information might be a little more skewed towards it
being all of Chinese origin... in reality it's just more commonplace in
that region, but not to the point where most farmers are likely to come from
there... maybe. I don't have census numbers. In the end, though, what he
said wasn't racist as it's a cultural matter, and pretending there are no
cultural differences is a little like pretending there are no political
differences.
Now, this talk of seperating people geographically, I don't care for
greatly. By language, sure, give people the option for a server where they
can understand people. But not by culture or nation.
Mark O'Connor
"Adam Russell" <adamr...@sbcglobalREMOVETHIS.net> wrote in message
> No harm except to perpetuate a racist stereotype and to try to exclude
them
> from american servers. Do a search for "separate but equal". Personally,
I
> like the idea that I can play with people from all over the world. As far
> as doppleganger goes, I never persecuted him as you imply. I just named
> what I see him doing as I see it. He can choose to listen and learn, or
he
> can choose to continue spreading 'racist' rumors.
>
>
(mainly Chinese) gold farmers on EVERY server. Please go to ebay, type in
the search window the name of the server you play on, then look at where the
auctions sellers are based. The result will be without doubt China.
To state that Chinese gold farmers are having such an effect on the game,
that results in Blizzard banning their accounts is a rock hard FACT.
Wake up and open you eyes (and your mind).
Mark
Doppleganger
Thanks to everyone who's taken up for my position, but it's really not
worth it - like I said, I have this guy pegged, I know his type.
He's not going to admit he's wrong, ever, because his ego won't allow
it, nor will his self-inspired sense of "righteous indignation".
Adam Russell
Well I did look on ebay as suggested by Mark, and I did see gold for sale.
On Silver Hand there were 4 chinese sellers and 1 american seller, which
does support your position that it is biased to chinese. I'll give you
that.
Brian
alt.games.warcraft.
>Thanks to everyone who's taken up for my position, but it's really not
>worth it - like I said, I have this guy pegged, I know his type.
>
>He's not going to admit he's wrong, ever, because his ego won't allow
>it, nor will his self-inspired sense of "righteous indignation".
You just described more than half of usenet.
Brian
--
ICQ#: 68214833 | AIM: LineNoise54
.
A true friend walks in when the world walks out.
adamr...@sbcglobal.net
But on further review...
I mentioned to a guildie that I had looked up gold and didnt see very
much going on actually. Was informed that there is far more of this
going on at playerauctions.com than at ebay. Checked there and there
were 2 pages worth! 71 entries for Silver Hand. All american, none
chinese, unless Yantis is chinese (I dont think so). This tells me
that there may be a problem, but its not the chinese. If you have
evidence to the contrary, I'm still open to hear it.
sanjian
news:1111798280....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> But on further review...
> I mentioned to a guildie that I had looked up gold and didnt see very
> much going on actually. Was informed that there is far more of this
> going on at playerauctions.com than at ebay. Checked there and there
> were 2 pages worth! 71 entries for Silver Hand. All american, none
> chinese, unless Yantis is chinese (I dont think so). This tells me
> that there may be a problem, but its not the chinese. If you have
> evidence to the contrary, I'm still open to hear it.
IIRC, Yantis is a re-seller. He not only farms, but he buys the farmed
items. Kind of like a speculator.
rlpyburn
just looked at EBay and there were 5161 items and 104 pages for WoW gold, I
don't know the percentage that might be Chinese, but I do know we had a big
problem with Chinese farmers on DAOC Lancelot and reason tells you that
eventually WoW will have the same problem if there is real money involved, I
don't really care if they are Chinese or not just don't want them screwing
with my play time like they did in DAOC!
sanjian
news:dZd1e.4108$Fz....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
I rather thought it was DAoC that killed DAoC.
rlpyburn
>
> I rather thought it was DAoC that killed DAoC.
>
>
account there and play quite a bit, my wife isn't to happy with me playing 2
games though so I've got to chose which account gets paid this month :)