[WOW] Instance dungeons
Stephen van Ham
into it, and never above level 17, since I'm an incurable altoholic. From
what I've been able to glean from various forums, and reading the company
line, is that "instance dungeons" are one of the main "high points" later in
the game in terms of both drops and "fun". Has this been your experience?
How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
Is there any reward for bugging out *before* you complete one? (presumably
you'd get a few nice drops, or whatever, from the high level goons you kill
along the way, but wouldn't get any kind of "quest completion" reward).
For those who are familiar with Diablo 2, are they anything like the ancients
quest where you have to complete one without returning to town? I suppose in
a game like this, returning to town and then back to the dungeon would be a
time consuming process anyway. Are they sort of like ironman games where you
have to get to the end with only the initial group of players that gathered
for the group? I'm guessing the answer is "yes" for this last part, being
instanced and all.
Can an instance dungeon be realistially soloed, in your experience, and if so,
could it be done with a character that isn't heavily twinked, or they purely
designed to a group only?
I'm very interested in hearing your own experiences with instances, as I'm
very much in the "should I bother renewing my subscription?" phase at the
moment, and I've been told the game gets "better" late on, without really
getting any specifics on how it gets better.
tcells
"Stephen van Ham" <sva...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:kf93u0hcm3v4snsvd...@4ax.com...
> Well, I'm pretty new to this, having only clocked two batches of 50 hours
play
> into it, and never above level 17, since I'm an incurable altoholic.
From
> what I've been able to glean from various forums, and reading the company
> line, is that "instance dungeons" are one of the main "high points" later
in
> the game in terms of both drops and "fun". Has this been your
experience?
>
yes
> How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
>
no idea as I have not completed one - my inventory always fills so it's time
to sell.
> Is there any reward for bugging out *before* you complete one?
(presumably
> you'd get a few nice drops, or whatever, from the high level goons you
kill
> along the way, but wouldn't get any kind of "quest completion" reward).
>
the nice drops :)
> For those who are familiar with Diablo 2, are they anything like the
ancients
> quest where you have to complete one without returning to town?
none of the quests I've done down there so far have proven to be this way,
but I haven't done many quests.
I suppose in
> a game like this, returning to town and then back to the dungeon would be
a
> time consuming process anyway.
indeed. And don't return without your hearth stone recharged, it's *very*
easy to get into hot water down there.
Are they sort of like ironman games where you
> have to get to the end with only the initial group of players that
gathered
> for the group? I'm guessing the answer is "yes" for this last part,
being
> instanced and all.
>
> Can an instance dungeon be realistially soloed, in your experience, and if
so,
> could it be done with a character that isn't heavily twinked, or they
purely
> designed to a group only?
>
at 7 levels above, there are still very hard to solo
> I'm very interested in hearing your own experiences with instances, as I'm
> very much in the "should I bother renewing my subscription?" phase at the
> moment, and I've been told the game gets "better" late on, without really
> getting any specifics on how it gets better.
>
I'm finding soloing in them until my pack fills very worthwhile as it means
stuff for the younger chars. Now this might not be the most efficient way
to do it, as there are areas you can run for trade items and get xp at the
same time, but seeing I'm enjoying spending time down there, there's no
reasson for me not to do things this way for a while.
To draw a parallel with D, I'd say it's like doing baal runs with an
untwinked level 70 char. A tough fight but every monster can drop something
useable :)
Marshall
Which instances have you been doing, in what continents/zones? I haven't
even gotten high enough to run into an instance dungeon yet (that I know of),
my highest char is a lvl 19 paladin in Westfall/Redridge. I don't believe the
Van Cleef quest is an instance, is it? That's the big finale of Westfall, which
I've just danced around the edges of so far.
-Marshall
tcells
"Marshall" <mars...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2GmEd.3006$Ii4...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> tcells wrote:
snip
>
> Which instances have you been doing, in what continents/zones? I haven't
> even gotten high enough to run into an instance dungeon yet (that I know
of),
> my highest char is a lvl 19 paladin in Westfall/Redridge. I don't believe
the
> Van Cleef quest is an instance, is it? That's the big finale of Westfall,
which
> I've just danced around the edges of so far.
> -Marshall
don't know if VC is or isn't, but people talk as if it is. I've been doing
blackfathom deep over in ashenvale. That's the only one I know the location
of.
I hope you're talking about Balen. In any case hurry up and get over to
ash, then we can go hunting nasties together, or I'll catch you in westfall.
I've got the ship quest off wetlands up, but really don't want to do it till
I can breathe underwater.
Deda
Yes, VC is a instance q but not only for VC, doing that instance you can
finish there 2 more q (Underground assault-Shoni q from Dwarf district,
1 of 4 q for paladin lvl 20 weapon q). Soloing on that is impossible,
maybe after lvl 35, but on that lvl those qsts are wasting of time.
So, if you are lvl 20-25 that is the best lvl for that but only in a 5
people party, and be prepared to loose 1-2 hour for full VC q.
3phAse
> hours play
> into it, and never above level 17, since I'm an incurable altoholic.
> From
> what I've been able to glean from various forums, and reading the
> company
> line, is that "instance dungeons" are one of the main "high points"
> later in
> the game in terms of both drops and "fun". Has this been your
> experience?
Almost all high level, i.e. level 60 gameplay is instance dungeons so
I've read. I've only done Van Cleef and the Stockades, but on my
limited experience they are absolutely team/party play only. I have no
idea how anyone (of the intended player level) could enter and
complete one single handed.
> How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
I have a strange condition which leads to a complete loss of any sense
of time while playing WoW. I'm guessing, strong team 30min, weak team
>60min for VC.
> Is there any reward for bugging out *before* you complete one?
> (presumably
> you'd get a few nice drops, or whatever, from the high level goons
> you kill
> along the way, but wouldn't get any kind of "quest completion"
> reward).
Nope, like any other quest if you don't bring back the goods you dont
get the toys.
Quite a nice prize for VC. (well for item starved me it was nice)
> For those who are familiar with Diablo 2, are they anything like the
> ancients
> quest where you have to complete one without returning to town? I
> suppose in
> a game like this, returning to town and then back to the dungeon
> would be a
> time consuming process anyway. Are they sort of like ironman games
> where you
> have to get to the end with only the initial group of players that
> gathered
> for the group? I'm guessing the answer is "yes" for this last
> part, being
> instanced and all.
Yeah, you can't just lay down a quick town portal like Diablo, you
have to run. I still have moments when I'm in the middle of nowhere
and think "I'll just TP back to town for... Doh!
About changing party members? I've never had any experience with that,
I just presumed, like you, this was impossiible once a party had
formed and entered/started the instance.
> I'm very interested in hearing your own experiences with instances,
> as I'm
> very much in the "should I bother renewing my subscription?" phase
> at the
> moment, and I've been told the game gets "better" late on, without
> really
> getting any specifics on how it gets better.
Kind of like playing your first Diablo 2 character to 29 and saying
this sucks, it's too hard, too slow? :)
cheers,
Stu.
*You will meet fantastic people like errr... me and Tcells and
Marshall and chainbreaker. :D
u
gaming background I'll add a little extra depth to the observations made so
far...
"Stephen van Ham" <sva...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:kf93u0hcm3v4snsvd...@4ax.com...
> what I've been able to glean from various forums, and reading the company
> line, is that "instance dungeons" are one of the main "high points" later
> in
> the game in terms of both drops and "fun".
Instances can be the biggest adrenelin rush of your life or the worst time
you'll ever have playing any game at all. It's all about who you go with
and how expierienced in instances they are.
> How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
Unless you are in a high level group going into a lower level instance,
expect anywhere from 1/2 hour to 2 hours in an instance. Some instances
are accessed through a "hub", so from the same spot you can enter any of up
to 4 different aspects (quests) of that instance.
> Is there any reward for bugging out *before* you complete one?
> (presumably
> you'd get a few nice drops, or whatever, from the high level goons you
> kill
> along the way, but wouldn't get any kind of "quest completion" reward).
Asked like a true D2 fan. The quest completion and "usually" the best
goodies only come from killing the very last boss at the end of the
instance. If you get something nice before them in a chest or random drop
then you made out doubly well.
> For those who are familiar with Diablo 2, are they anything like the
> ancients
> quest where you have to complete one without returning to town?
Ancients is the best analogy for a quest instance. No TP's :) If you
ungroup from your party (each party can have up to 5 max players, more than
that and you have to form a "raid party" which won't allow you to get credit
for completing the quest) then you get booted out of the instance within 60
seconds.
>
> Can an instance dungeon be realistially soloed, in your experience, and if
> so,
> could it be done with a character that isn't heavily twinked, or they
> purely
> designed to a group only?
All instances are populated by Elite monsters. That means that for all
practical purposes they are 4-5 levels higher than their level rating AND
they invariably are grouped in clusters that can't be broken up. To solo an
instance you have to either be 5-10 levels higher than them to stealth to
the end boss to avoid the packs without them detecting you (all monster's
detection level is partly based on the ratio of their level to yours), or be
high enough level to fight packs of elites. Figure you need to be 10-15
levels higher than the instance level to solo it.
>
> I'm very interested in hearing your own experiences with instances, as I'm
> very much in the "should I bother renewing my subscription?" phase at the
> moment, and I've been told the game gets "better" late on, without really
> getting any specifics on how it gets better.
Oh, it's fun early, but it gets better and better as you get more powerful.
Just like D2. Once you can walk into town with your high level character on
your bad-ass mount, you know you've accomplished something.
Xanex....UndeadRogueazon, see my next post :)
Cyde Weys
Stephen van Ham wrote:
> Well, I'm pretty new to this, having only clocked two batches of 50
hours play
> into it, and never above level 17, since I'm an incurable altoholic.
From
> what I've been able to glean from various forums, and reading the
company
> line, is that "instance dungeons" are one of the main "high points"
later in
> the game in terms of both drops and "fun". Has this been your
experience?
I don't really like the idea of instance dungeons. If I want to play
in a small group, I'll go start a server of Dungeon Siege or something.
If I want to play with a lot of people, I'll choose an MMORPG. I'll
just contrast my experiences with Wailing Caverns in The Barrens for
you. It's a pretty unique dungeon because part of it is non-instanced.
There's a cave entrance from the outside world, and after fighting for
a little bit in the cave (and going pretty deep into the Earth) you
come upon an instance. I find the playing before the instance to be a
lot more fun, because you can run into other groups who are also
helping to slay monsters. Of course, the loot at least doubles in
"gooditude" once you pass the instance barrier, so that's some pretty
good incentive right there to do the instance even if you don't
particularly like it.
> How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
It depends. Ragefire Chasm in Cleft of Shadow in Orgrimmar took me
about 45 minutes while Wailing Caverns in The Barrens took 2-3 hours!
It depends on the size of the instance, for the most part. Your
question would probably be better worded, "What is the average amount
of time it takes to complete a mid-level instance?" For which I don't
know the answer, since I haven't played very many.
> Can an instance dungeon be realistially soloed, in your experience,
and if so,
> could it be done with a character that isn't heavily twinked, or they
purely
> designed to a group only?
They can't be soloed until the point where the monsters have long
stopped giving you any experience, and at that point the loot isn't so
spectacular. It's better to get into a group and take on an instance
of an appropriate level.
Stephen van Ham
trenchcoat:
>Almost all high level, i.e. level 60 gameplay is instance dungeons so
>I've read. I've only done Van Cleef and the Stockades, but on my
>limited experience they are absolutely team/party play only. I have no
>idea how anyone (of the intended player level) could enter and
>complete one single handed.
>> How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
>I have a strange condition which leads to a complete loss of any sense
>of time while playing WoW. I'm guessing, strong team 30min, weak team
> >60min for VC.
That's interesting, because the impression I was getting is that instance
dungeons can take hours to complete. I don't play games for hours, non stop,
so they don't really sound like the thing for me. But the way you describe
it...
>Kind of like playing your first Diablo 2 character to 29 and saying
>this sucks, it's too hard, too slow? :)
You'll find peer pressure won't work on me that much, sonny jim, I'm getting
too old in the tooth for that to work. ;-)
Nope, pretty much all I've gleaned from reading people's posts is that we
share not much in common in terms of playing style. I'm a casual gamer,
through and through. If the "fun" parts of the game don't present themselves
for one character in a reasonably short time, then I'm wasting my time, and
it's time to move on. I also tend to be a solitary gamer, so I guess a
multiplayer online game isn't necessarily going to be a guaranteed best fit
for me.
>cheers,
>Stu.
>*You will meet fantastic people like errr... me and Tcells and
>Marshall and chainbreaker. :D
When ald gets the game, which should be about the time we have a guild going,
I'll give it another go, but until then, there's nothing that the game really
has to offer me, right now. I tried playing yesterday, but after 10-15
minutes, I'd lost interest.
Thanks for the responses on instance dungeons though, all. Not sure it
really helped in keeping me around, in the end, but I appreciate people taking
the time to answer my questions.
Adam Russell
> Nope, pretty much all I've gleaned from reading people's posts is that we
> share not much in common in terms of playing style. I'm a casual gamer,
> through and through. If the "fun" parts of the game don't present
> themselves
> for one character in a reasonably short time, then I'm wasting my time,
> and
> it's time to move on.
There's a lot of fun you can have in 'casual time' too. I've played more
time solo than grouped and had a gas. There's also many short group quests
to do. I've joined, ran to area, killed target and said goodbyes in 15
minutes total.
Stephen van Ham
in that trenchcoat:
>There's a lot of fun you can have in 'casual time' too. I've played more
>time solo than grouped and had a gas. There's also many short group quests
>to do. I've joined, ran to area, killed target and said goodbyes in 15
>minutes total.
I totally agree that you *can* play the game in little short bursts, in a solo
capacity. But I'm not sure little bursts of gameplay here and there is worth
a monthly fee, for me. I can see why a lot of people enjoy the game, though.
Adam Russell
Well if you dont play computer games very much then maybe $15 a month
wouldnt be worth it. You could try backgammon on msn.
Stephen van Ham
in that trenchcoat:
>Well if you dont play computer games very much then maybe $15 a month
>wouldnt be worth it. You could try backgammon on msn.
Hehe, I'm surprised you didn't pull out the "if you can't afford to pay a
monthly fee, go get a job" trump card, which people often do. Which I can, by
the way (afford a montly fee).
I went and played around on a jigsaw puzzles site the other day. Does that
count? :-)
Actually, I do play computer games quite a lot (and in fact, probably put in
5-10K hours playing D2), but my playing can be quite erratic, and way I play
tends to be quite erratic, too. I still tend to classify myself a casual
gamer, though, or maybe a casual hardcore powergaming altoholic. But right
now I just don't see enough in WOW to warrant paying for it monthly, but
that's just for me. I like the game overall, and think it achieves exactly
what it sets out to do, and in fact, I've made specific recommendations to
some people to go out and buy it.
Having said that, I'm planning on re-subscribing at a later date for another
go at it, to see if my view of it changes, and will be tracking the
development of the expansion packs with interest (more for the possbilities of
new races and classes than for high level content). Right now I'm spending a
few hours each day browsing the WOW forums instead of playing it. Seems a
far more satisfying way of spending my time, hehe.
patrick...@standardregister.com
Stephen van Ham wrote:
> Well, I'm pretty new to this, having only clocked two batches of 50
hours play
> into it, and never above level 17, since I'm an incurable altoholic.
From
> what I've been able to glean from various forums, and reading the
company
> line, is that "instance dungeons" are one of the main "high points"
later in
> the game in terms of both drops and "fun". Has this been your
experience?
>
Yes. No.
As for drops, I see a rare blue drop on just about every instance run I
do. Also, the incidence of green drops in instances is much higher
than normal.
In terms of fun, quite frankly, I hate instances. I've done 6 of them
(Ragefire Chasm, Razorfen Kraul, Scarlet Monastery, Wailing Caverns,
Uldaman, Blackfathom Deep) and disliked each one. Blackfathom was the
least distasteful of the bunch, but I still didn't actually like it and
I'd rather be out doing normal areas.
They are just endless parades of elite mobs, which of course take 3x as
long to kill as a normal mob of that level. You've got to stop and
fight an elite every ten feet. Occasionally you'll have to devise a
strategy for a "boss fight" or you'll end up getting more of a pull
than you bargained for, and there's a bit of excitement. But overall
instances are very dull, in my opinion.
> How long does an instance dungeon typically take to complete?
>
2 hours is around average in my experience.
> Is there any reward for bugging out *before* you complete one?
(presumably
> you'd get a few nice drops, or whatever, from the high level goons
you kill
> along the way, but wouldn't get any kind of "quest completion"
reward).
>
You keep whatever you found while in there. That's about it.
> For those who are familiar with Diablo 2, are they anything like the
ancients
> quest where you have to complete one without returning to town? I
suppose in
> a game like this, returning to town and then back to the dungeon
would be a
> time consuming process anyway. Are they sort of like ironman games
where you
> have to get to the end with only the initial group of players that
gathered
> for the group? I'm guessing the answer is "yes" for this last part,
being
> instanced and all.
>
It is sort of like the ancients quest. The instance entrance doesn't
close off behind you or anything. If you are grouped as long as at
least one member of your group remains in the instance at all times,
the rest can come and go as they please without resetting the instance.
But you can't leave the instance entirely empty and then go back to
it. If you do, it will reset.
The instance is created for the group that enters it. After a certain
amount of time/progress has been made in the instance (I don't know how
much triggers the effect) you can no longer add party members to the
instance group. Actually, technically you can add them, they just
won't be able to enter instance.
> Can an instance dungeon be realistially soloed, in your experience,
and if so,
> could it be done with a character that isn't heavily twinked, or they
purely
> designed to a group only?
>
They can be easily soloed if you are high enough level above that of
the instance. "High Enough" means all the mobs are gray, though. So
no xp. You will still get any drops and quest rewards.
If you are anywhere within 10 levels of the instance's intended level
range then you are not going to be able to *complete* it solo. But you
could still hunt there for the higher drop rate or just to explore it.
I made several solo Blackfathom runs.
> I'm very interested in hearing your own experiences with instances,
as I'm
> very much in the "should I bother renewing my subscription?" phase at
the
> moment, and I've been told the game gets "better" late on, without
really
> getting any specifics on how it gets better.
I sure as heck would not renew my WoW subscription based on looking
forward to high level instances. I guess it's a matter of personal
preference, but like I said I find them fairly boring. Elites just
have too many hp and the instances are just packed too tightly with
them. It gets fairly tedious grinding your way through them.
I consider the Battlegrounds to be the high point of getting to the
endgame and instances are just a means to get the xp and gear to be
effective there.
Cyde Weys
patrick...@standardregister.com wrote:
> I sure as heck would not renew my WoW subscription based on looking
> forward to high level instances. I guess it's a matter of personal
> preference, but like I said I find them fairly boring. Elites just
> have too many hp and the instances are just packed too tightly with
> them. It gets fairly tedious grinding your way through them.
>
> I consider the Battlegrounds to be the high point of getting to the
> endgame and instances are just a means to get the xp and gear to be
> effective there.
I agree with you in disliking instances. Maybe they're more fun with a
really good group that you enjoy playing with, but I haven't found that
yet. For now I like fighting non-elites out on the world map where I
can actually run into other people and interact with them. I'm not
going to be canceling my subscription just because of instances, but
I'm not going to be spending lots of time in them, either. It's a
shame that they're the only way to get the really good equipment.
patrick...@standardregister.com
Well, they are on the only way to get certain specific items and the
*guaranteed* way of getting blue drops.
But, every WoW server is a pretty big place. The law of averages is on
your side. With thousands of people opening hundreds of chests and
killing tens of thousands of mobs, you are going to get blue (and even
the occasional few purple) items. Even when the drop chance on the
rare items is something like .3% And while most of these will probably
be used by the item finder or one of his friends/guildmates, you are
still going to get them put up for auction.
It's just a matter of being patient and checking auction often. I have
found 4 blue and 1 purple weapons that were excellent for my class &
level at the AH at various times. I wish I could have gotten the
purple one, because I'd still be using it today if I had, but I was 3
gold short at the time.
Aruvqan
>
> I agree with you in disliking instances. Maybe they're more fun with a
> really good group that you enjoy playing with, but I haven't found that
> yet.
Well, I have a same level hunter [I play mainly my druid] and we
generally make up the kernal of a group. Right now we are having
fun in gnomeregan [we are both 31] and we can duo the beginning
of the instanced area down to the dormitory, and have several
times already just for the loot. I know that in about 3 hours I
made about 3 gold personally, and a couple drops were
improvements on some gear and replaced what I had.
We have fun adding more to our group, and with the right
chemistry, a good group is a blast instanced dungeon or not.
Yesterday we had a pally, and 2 warlocks with us and murdered our
way to the boss mob, and had fun doing it=)