How to tank Stratholme undead pulls?
Christian Stauffer
It happened this weekend that we attempted Stratholme with a
5 man group. We wiped several times for various reasons. I guess
everyone in the team was responsible for at least one wipe :o),
and we had some bad luck and lots of lagspikes.
I was a bit tired, too (too much WoW and not enough sleep).
For your info, the group setup was as follows:
- Me (59 druid), tank (5400 AC and ~350 defense at that time)
- Esa (60 holy priest), healer
- Donk, 60 shaman
- Kenrock, 60 mage
- Goa, 60 hunter
I had some serious problems tanking there, because I had to
face pulls I've never seen before. For example, a pull with
3 elites and 5 or more non-elites at a time. Of course, the
mage went AoE (I start liking this AoE thing). Which means
there's no point trying to build up aggro on the non-elites
for me (because they die quite quickly). So I tried to
focus on the elites. I had problems building aggro on them
while the mage did AoE damage, and I had serious trouble
even picking them between my groupmates, the non-elite zerg
and all that arcane explosion going on.
Theoretically, it would be best If I was able to pull all
elites to a place, while the mage finishes of the non-elites
in another place. So he wouldn't aggro my mobs, and I would
not waste aggro on the non-elite mobs because i target them
all the time while searching for the elite ones.
Having that said, I see no way to do this :o)
Are there any tactics or hints for such pulls? To sum it up,
I need a bit of advice how to:
- generate more aggro on the elites than the AoEing mage does
or getting them somewhere the mage doesn't reach them
- select the elites out of the total chaos
btw: I know the tools to build up aggro, but they can't
compete with an AoEing mage. Having played occasionally
with warriors as tanks and AoEing mages, I have the
impression not even warriors can hold aggro against
AoE mages. So what I'm asking for is not advice what
abilities I should use, it's more a question how to
deal with such pulls and an AoEing mage..
Chris
--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (15) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
steve.kaye
Christian Stauffer wrote:
> Moo,
>
> For your info, the group setup was as follows:
> - Me (59 druid), tank (5400 AC and ~350 defense at that time)
> - Esa (60 holy priest), healer
> - Donk, 60 shaman
> - Kenrock, 60 mage
> - Goa, 60 hunter
<snip>
> Are there any tactics or hints for such pulls? To sum it up,
> I need a bit of advice how to:
> - generate more aggro on the elites than the AoEing mage does
> or getting them somewhere the mage doesn't reach them
> - select the elites out of the total chaos
You could choose your places and pull the group to you. Then have the
mage target each non-elite and zap them individually from his allocated
spot. As you aren't attacking them they should go over to him.
Alternatively you could get the hunter to stand with the mage and use
his pet and/or distracting shot to pull the non-elites to the mage.
That was all just speculation on my part because I have no experience
in such a pull.
steve.kaye
Simon Nejmann
<wildc...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>Theoretically, it would be best If I was able to pull all
>elites to a place, while the mage finishes of the non-elites
>in another place. So he wouldn't aggro my mobs, and I would
>not waste aggro on the non-elite mobs because i target them
>all the time while searching for the elite ones.
>Having that said, I see no way to do this :o)
>
>Are there any tactics or hints for such pulls? To sum it up,
>I need a bit of advice how to:
>- generate more aggro on the elites than the AoEing mage does
> or getting them somewhere the mage doesn't reach them
>- select the elites out of the total chaos
* Priests have Shackle Undead - it is great for Stratholme and
Scholomance.
* Low level Ice Nova (the area freeze one) - stops them in their
tracks and builds a bit of aggro for the mage. Whack the elites a few
times and have the tank and mage run in seperate directions - the
elites should follow you, the normals him.
Those are the only ones I can come up with offhand...
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Dave
Strat needs some practice.
Dave
If you have a preist let him shackle one elite, then go Aggro the whole
mob and thrwo in a Demoralizing Shout to get basic aggro.
After that you need to foucu on the elites, spam them with your aggro
tools for some 5 seconds, try to pull them out from the rest of the mob
and _then_ let your mage AOE them. Its very hard to keep them sticked to
you when the damage dealers go AOE crazy right from the beginning.
This is the way we always do it, and it became routine for me to tank
this elites without any worries at all.
Christian Stauffer
> Strat needs some practice, but the essetials you got right.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, I definitely figured that part :-)
> If you have a preist let him shackle one elite, then go Aggro the whole
> mob and thrwo in a Demoralizing Shout to get basic aggro.
Yep, so far so good.
> After that you need to foucu on the elites, spam them with your aggro
> tools for some 5 seconds, try to pull them out from the rest of the mob
> and _then_ let your mage AOE them. Its very hard to keep them sticked to
> you when the damage dealers go AOE crazy right from the beginning.
Oh my god, stupid me. Of course. Would've been smart to wait a bit with
AoEing, why didn't I consider that? Hrm, tired :-)
Ok, that's actually a good hint. Although I'm still not really sure how
to separate them, but maybe that's not even required.
> This is the way we always do it, and it became routine for me to tank
> this elites without any worries at all.
I'll try next time, thank you.
Christian Stauffer
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:18:02 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
> <wildc...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>>Theoretically, it would be best If I was able to pull all
>>elites to a place, while the mage finishes of the non-elites
>>in another place. So he wouldn't aggro my mobs, and I would
>>not waste aggro on the non-elite mobs because i target them
>>all the time while searching for the elite ones.
>>Having that said, I see no way to do this :o)
>>
>>Are there any tactics or hints for such pulls? To sum it up,
>>I need a bit of advice how to:
>>- generate more aggro on the elites than the AoEing mage does
>> or getting them somewhere the mage doesn't reach them
>>- select the elites out of the total chaos
>
> * Priests have Shackle Undead - it is great for Stratholme and
> Scholomance.
I know, but I hate it to let the priest do the first move. If I
experience a lag the second he shackles, he's dead before my lag
ends.
> * Low level Ice Nova (the area freeze one) - stops them in their
> tracks and builds a bit of aggro for the mage. Whack the elites a few
> times and have the tank and mage run in seperate directions - the
> elites should follow you, the normals him.
Mage AoE-freezes, I whack the elites so they hate me more than him,
as soon as the ice brakes they're separated. Sounds like it may
work :o)
> Those are the only ones I can come up with offhand...
Thanks, Chris
collection2002
everyone else stayed together in a distance and started pulling non
elite mobs toward them. mage started AoE.
wait, didn't this sound a lot like Uldman's final boss encounter?
btw, how long was your Uldman's run? Sorry to be OT here.
Adam Russell
"Christian Stauffer" <wildc...@bluewin.ch> wrote in message
news:42ef809b$0$1154$5402...@news.sunrise.ch...
> Moo,
>
> It happened this weekend that we attempted Stratholme with a
> 5 man group. We wiped several times for various reasons. I guess
> everyone in the team was responsible for at least one wipe :o),
> and we had some bad luck and lots of lagspikes.
> I was a bit tired, too (too much WoW and not enough sleep).
>
> For your info, the group setup was as follows:
> - Me (59 druid), tank (5400 AC and ~350 defense at that time)
> - Esa (60 holy priest), healer
> - Donk, 60 shaman
> - Kenrock, 60 mage
> - Goa, 60 hunter
You might reduce your pull by 3 with ice trap, sheep, and shackle. Dont
know if shaman could add to that as I am alliance.
Christian Stauffer
> Tank charges into the mob and focused on elite mobs.
>
> everyone else stayed together in a distance and started pulling non
> elite mobs toward them. mage started AoE.
Ok, that's another way (and honestly, as it is extremely simple, it's
quite likely to work).
> wait, didn't this sound a lot like Uldman's final boss encounter?
Nope, not at all :-p
Tank takes Archaedas, damage dealers kill adds, healer heals.
At this time, there's nothing being tanked except the boss.
As soon as the stone giants unfreeze, full dps on boss, and try
to keep the stone giants away from the healer.
Actually, we finally did it with one of the best group constellations
for this (heavy!) fight: 1 warrior, 3 shamen, 1 druid. You need lots
of healing power and lots of damage reduction there :-)
> btw, how long was your Uldman's run? Sorry to be OT here.
Full Uldaman takes maybe 3h for an appropriate team (level 48
average? That may be the minimum req for the boss).
If you want to take down the boss, you'll need 1 tank, and one
healer with a shitload of mana (that's one of the fewer points where
a resto druid really can shine). At least one shaman for off tanking
and support healing is useful, 3 shamans are even better (because
they can take quite some beating in the final phase).
The fight against Archaedas can take up to 10 mins :o) Have fun.
Babe Bridou
Christian Stauffer wrote:
> btw: I know the tools to build up aggro, but they can't
> compete with an AoEing mage. Having played occasionally
> with warriors as tanks and AoEing mages, I have the
> impression not even warriors can hold aggro against
> AoE mages. So what I'm asking for is not advice what
> abilities I should use, it's more a question how to
> deal with such pulls and an AoEing mage..
Chris,
I'm surprised you didn't mention the reason why it was hard: undead
spellcasters! They don't move, we couldn't "pull" them with our
group... so we had to gather around you, the elites and the non elite
mobs, including spellcasters so that AOE was efficient.
Nah, next time, really, we need our mage to make use of counterspell
and the shaman cast earthshock on them at least once in a pull, just so
that the casters run to them instead of standing near the shackle and
shooting at me.
Really I think those were the key.
Their damage was ridiculous, but their position a bit away from the
main battlefield, that distressed us.
That and the horrible 10 elite-pulls we did ;)
collection2002
Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "collection2002" <lin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Tank charges into the mob and focused on elite mobs.
> >
> > everyone else stayed together in a distance and started pulling non
> > elite mobs toward them. mage started AoE.
>
> Ok, that's another way (and honestly, as it is extremely simple, it's
> quite likely to work).
>
Addionally, since you will be buffing yourself with thorns, why not
with hunter's pet and then two of you charged into the mobs to focus on
elites. That way, pet will draw some of elite hit off you.
> > wait, didn't this sound a lot like Uldman's final boss encounter?
>
> Nope, not at all :-p
>
> Tank takes Archaedas, damage dealers kill adds, healer heals.
> At this time, there's nothing being tanked except the boss.
>
...tank takes Archaedas/elite mobs;
...damage dealers kill/AoE adds/non-elite mobs by pulling them away
from Archaedas/elite mobs;
...healer pull then heal
...everyone focus back on Archaedas/elite mobs
Same format, no?
>
> > btw, how long was your Uldman's run? Sorry to be OT here.
>
> Full Uldaman takes maybe 3h for an appropriate team (level 48
> average? That may be the minimum req for the boss).
> If you want to take down the boss, you'll need 1 tank, and one
> healer with a shitload of mana (that's one of the fewer points where
> a resto druid really can shine). At least one shaman for off tanking
> and support healing is useful, 3 shamans are even better (because
> they can take quite some beating in the final phase).
> The fight against Archaedas can take up to 10 mins :o) Have fun.
>
Thanks for the info, though, I will be trying it from the alliance
side, thus subsitute shaman with paladins?
Babe Bridou
Adam Russell wrote:
> You might reduce your pull by 3 with ice trap, sheep, and shackle. Dont
> know if shaman could add to that as I am alliance.
undead are immune to sheep.
freezing trap happens almost necessarily in range of the mage's AOE.
I tell ya, better use multishot, exploding trap, volley, fire nova
totem with arcane explosion :P
Simon Nejmann
<wildc...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>"Simon Nejmann" <snej...@worldonline.dk> wrote:
>> * Priests have Shackle Undead - it is great for Stratholme and
>> Scholomance.
>
>I know, but I hate it to let the priest do the first move. If I
>experience a lag the second he shackles, he's dead before my lag
>ends.
Shoot your bow/gun/whatever - when he sees your animation start to
play he starts the cast (stay in front of him at least until the rest
of the mobs start to move). If his shackle hits late, then pull the
rest back a bit further.
Your job of holding 3 elites just went down to 2, and you might even
be able to hold that with a mage AoEing on top of them.
Seriously: Use Shackle - it's the best thing since sliced bread! :)
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
collection2002
> Christian Stauffer wrote:
> > btw: I know the tools to build up aggro, but they can't
> > compete with an AoEing mage. Having played occasionally
> > with warriors as tanks and AoEing mages, I have the
> > impression not even warriors can hold aggro against
> > AoE mages. So what I'm asking for is not advice what
> > abilities I should use, it's more a question how to
> > deal with such pulls and an AoEing mage..
>
> Chris,
>
> I'm surprised you didn't mention the reason why it was hard: undead
> spellcasters! They don't move, we couldn't "pull" them with our
> group... so we had to gather around you, the elites and the non elite
> mobs, including spellcasters so that AOE was efficient.
>
Okay, now I know why it is different from the Uldaman's boss encounter.
Tsk, tsk, Chris, shame on you for not including this little details...
:-)
If undead spellcasters are elites mobs who you've referred to, then you
and hunter's pet will have a field day when charged into them. Remember
to hamstring them to prevent them move away quickly from you after they
frost nova you :-)
If undead spellcasters are not elite mobs, then you and hunter will
have to pull elite mobs toward you and let mage & priest focus on them.
the key point is what everyone else has been suggested, tank and spell
casters should be distant from each other.
Simon Nejmann
Sheep don't work on undeads, but Ice Trap - why didn't I think of that
:)
Hunter a bit to the side - lays down trap. Druid pulls and goes
bearform - priest shackles one and hunter shoots one and leads it into
the trap.
After druid has pulled the remaining away from the CC'ed ones (and
pissed off his elite), the mage fires off a area spell and pulls all
the non-elites off the druid and AoEs them to death with the priest's
help (dead mages have pityful dps :)
Finally kill the elites - priest may have to refreshes shackle before
it breaks.
Woohoo! So simple on paper (or the electronic equivalent) - now go do
it for real (well, as "for real" as is possible in a computer game :).
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Noal McDonald
> Moo,
Roar.
> It happened this weekend that we attempted Stratholme with a
> 5 man group. We wiped several times for various reasons.
Get used to it. I've seen 15 man groups wipe.
A 5 man Baron run can be rough.
> For your info, the group setup was as follows:
> - Me (59 druid), tank (5400 AC and ~350 defense at that time)
<snip>
> I had some serious problems tanking there, because I had to
> face pulls I've never seen before. For example, a pull with
> 3 elites and 5 or more non-elites at a time.
First off, you're not equipped for it. A druid tank needs to have 10K
armor *unbuffed* before attempting this. Otherwise, the Baron is going
to melt you in record time. Yes, that requires you being level 60.
> - Kenrock, 60 mage
>
> Of course, the mage went AoE (I start liking this AoE thing).
> Which means there's no point trying to build up aggro on the
> non-elites for me (because they die quite quickly).
Which is a good thing.
> So I tried to focus on the elites. I had problems building
> aggro on them while the mage did AoE damage, and I had
> serious trouble even picking them between my groupmates,
> the non-elite zerg and all that arcane explosion going on.
Okay. This is from a druid who's been there and done that.
Here's how it goes:
1) You're standing upright and targetting an elite.
2) The shaman is targetting the other.
3) The priest shackles the third elite.
4) You Moonfire yours and drop to bear and pull it away from the Mage.
Start off with Discouraging Roar, Enrage, Faerie Fire (if you don't
have FF Bear, respecc and get it) & Swipe. (It has more aggro than
Maul) After that, alternate between Swipe and Maul. If things get out
of hand, pop the Mass Taunt.
5) The shaman does his thing to peel the other and hold aggro. The 2nd
DPS class (rogue, hunter, warlock, etc.) helps him melt the elite.
6) The mages VERY FIRST spell is Blizzard. (Yes, you need a
frost/arcane mage. Tell the fire mages to bugger off and do their pvp
thing or bring them along as a 2nd DPS.) Then they can do their AoE
jams.
7) Once the non-elites and the elite the off tank is holding are done,
everyone helps finish off the one you have. Then you MF the shackled
elite and you melt it.
Mobs of notes:
1) The Eye of whatever it's name is. When you see it's message, find it
and MF it. It dies pretty quickly.
2) The gargoyle things fear people. Shackle or melt them before you
deal with anything else. Otherwise, it will introduce you to half the
instance.
3) The bansee types do silence. Silence = no healing. Melt them fast.
Regards,
Noal
--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (38) on Stormrage
Simon Nejmann
wrote:
>I'm surprised you didn't mention the reason why it was hard: undead
>spellcasters! They don't move, we couldn't "pull" them with our
>group... so we had to gather around you, the elites and the non elite
>mobs, including spellcasters so that AOE was efficient.
>
>Nah, next time, really, we need our mage to make use of counterspell
>and the shaman cast earthshock on them at least once in a pull, just so
>that the casters run to them instead of standing near the shackle and
>shooting at me.
>
>Really I think those were the key.
>
>Their damage was ridiculous, but their position a bit away from the
>main battlefield, that distressed us.
Hmm, I would say: Do like proposed in the other posts, but then also
send the shaman off on a spellcaster killing spree - he can earthshock
and tank them on his own - usually just 1-2 of them, right?.
Also if they don't do all that much damage I sometimes just throw a
shield on myself and ignore them - as long as they hit my shield they
are (mostly) harmless, and if done right the mage should be done with
the rest of the normals pretty quickly and can go clean up.
If you have problems with the others breaking shackle with AoE you can
also try to shackle one of the spellcasters - it is not quite as good
as taking an elite out of the fight, but it is better than taking
nothing out.
>That and the horrible 10 elite-pulls we did ;)
Ouch! Those normally hurt in my experience... :(
Ps. Shadow priest spell Silence is also good against them casters...
*Muahaha* :D
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Babe Bridou
>
> I know, but I hate it to let the priest do the first move. If I
> experience a lag the second he shackles, he's dead before my lag
> ends.
>
Ttttt!
I can last 30 seconds in theory. In reality, you better stop lagging
after 5 seconds! That's the time lapse I accept to tank in any
situation, waiting for those little blue lightnings to pick the mobs
away from me without me casting any spell.
And trust me I can last that long.
Frank E
>Chris
Shackle one elite, let the shaman and hunter take out a 2nd one
(quickly) and you can tank the 3rd.
Alternatly, if you can get your timing down, you might ask the hunter
to drop an exploding trap by you. Hunter will get initial agro, mage
starts AoEing and pulls the agro off the hunter before he needs any
healing. It will give your mage an extra few seconds before he starts
getting hit.
Rgds, Frank
Noal McDonald
> If undead spellcasters are elites mobs who you've referred to, then you
> and hunter's pet will have a field day when charged into them.
Here's what you do for the undead elites if you don't have counterspell
or silence. Tag them with Moonfire, drop to Dire Bear, and then move
around the corner. Everyone else does *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING*. What
happens is the undead caster will try to get line of sight on you
again, which means they'll close in on you. Once it's in close quarters
and away from patrols and the like, everyone else can open up on it.
> Remember to hamstring them to prevent them move away quickly from
> you after they frost nova you :-)
No warrior = no hamstring. Not that it matters for a druid. Changing
forms breaks snare effects like frost nova.
al...@earthlink.net
>spellcasters! They don't move, we couldn't "pull" them with our
>group... so we had to gather around you, the elites and the non elite
>mobs, including spellcasters so that AOE was efficient.
I've found that the best way to pull spellcasters with my hunter is to
shoot them and then run behind the main group away from the mob to be
pulled. This makes them chase me and has the effect of pulling them
into the main group and away from the other mobs they may be close to.
Brian
alt.games.warcraft.
>Moo,
This won't really work for horde-side, but my best runs there were when you
could match an AoE tank with an AoE mage. This is one of the *very* few
situations where a Paladin is the best thing money can buy.
I had a lot of practice with those pulls when I kept trying to get 5-man
scarlet side for Love and Family. With a Paladin for a main tank, a Druid
for a main healer (Feral Spec, even), and not a warrior or priest to be
seen.
It went something like this: Pull with Exorcism from max range, lay down
Consecration, and then start a Holy Wrath. By the time the cast completed
on Wrath, all the melee types were in range of it. The non-elites at that
point are all half-dead, and *seriously* pissed at me, so the mage could
finish them up without a scratch. Tag the casters that hang back with
Exorcism when it cycles again, or just wait for the hunter or mage to melt
them. Judge Fury on one elite, then wail on another with melee, and keep
the Consecrates going.
My paladin and the druid were both pretty close to OOM on every pull, but I
could run those pulls like clockwork.
Based on that experience, I've got a few suggestions. First off, these
fights will never be clean. There's too many of them for even the most
amazing tank in the world to have solid aggro on. It's inherently a zerg
fight. And the mobs are individually not very threatening. Even the
elites in this section would be *laughable* in a single pull. So this
changes your job description a bit. You can't hold them all. Ever. So
don't try. Take the initial pull with Moonfire, or even Starfire. That
initial aggro is worth a lot more than you'd think, sometimes. Secondly,
"If you break it you bought it". If a rogue/hunter/shaman/warlock pulls
something off of you, let it go. They all have sufficient
dps/armor/self-heal/etc. to handle whatever they pulled from you. And if
they don't survive it, then kindly inform them not to pull off more than
they can chew. If you have a Shaman in the group, then get them to yank
one of the non-elites and hang on to it. That reduces your burden to two
mobs, plus as much of the AoE as you can manage.
I don't know what skills a bear has, but if you have anything like Cleave
or Whirlwind, spam the heck out of them. Shouts will also give your mage a
couple extra hits before they pull.
The number one concern in here is to not let your healer get eaten. This
is the only thing that should get you to break off from your position, is
to pull something off the healer. The healer should stand still, at all
times, to make this job easier to accomplish.
Get the mage to give you 5 seconds alone with the pack before the AoEs come
down, so that you can get a couple of swipes in against the elites. After
that, everyone that has any AoE capacity should unleash all at once. The
mage will probably aggro at this point. But with frost nova/mana shield,
they can stand up to it until the non-elites are dead. Then *stop* the
AoE. Switch to single target for the elites. Melt the Shaman's target
first, it should be half-dead already. Then the bear's targets last.
The first time I pulled a pack of those, I died, the mage died, and only a
very skilled hunter saved the druid from going down with the team. By the
second or third run, we could blaze through there without anyone even
getting below half life.
Another tidbit that made my paladin a lot stronger, although I don't know
if this works in bear form, is the Crystal Charge things you can get from
Un'Goro Crater. 10 red and 10 yellow power crystals gets you 6 Crystal
Charge, which deal about 500 damage to anything within 5 yards or so.
Basically, it's crystal dynamite, but it can be gathered and used by
anyone, not just engineers. A bit too costly to use on every pull, but it
can be a lifesaver if something goes south. Same idea as my Paladin's Holy
Wrath (and I would use them myself, because some of those mobs can kick,
and break my Wrath before it goes off). A bit AoE hit will ensure that the
non-elites stick to you like glue, because by the time the mage
over-aggros, the smalls are dead already.
Brian
--
ICQ#: 68214833 | AIM: LineNoise54
.
Ankh if you love Isis.
Christian Stauffer
> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>> "collection2002" <lin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Tank charges into the mob and focused on elite mobs.
>> >
>> > everyone else stayed together in a distance and started pulling non
>> > elite mobs toward them. mage started AoE.
>>
>> Ok, that's another way (and honestly, as it is extremely simple, it's
>> quite likely to work).
>
> Addionally, since you will be buffing yourself with thorns, why not
> with hunter's pet and then two of you charged into the mobs to focus on
> elites. That way, pet will draw some of elite hit off you.
And it will die, which makes me said. I'm a druid after all :o)
>> > wait, didn't this sound a lot like Uldman's final boss encounter?
>>
>> Nope, not at all :-p
>>
>> Tank takes Archaedas, damage dealers kill adds, healer heals.
>> At this time, there's nothing being tanked except the boss.
>
> ...tank takes Archaedas/elite mobs;
> ...damage dealers kill/AoE adds/non-elite mobs by pulling them away
> from Archaedas/elite mobs;
> ...healer pull then heal
> ...everyone focus back on Archaedas/elite mobs
>
> Same format, no?
Well, ok. Basically it is. On a wider time scale.
>> Full Uldaman takes maybe 3h for an appropriate team (level 48
>> average? That may be the minimum req for the boss).
>> If you want to take down the boss, you'll need 1 tank, and one
>> healer with a shitload of mana (that's one of the fewer points where
>> a resto druid really can shine). At least one shaman for off tanking
>> and support healing is useful, 3 shamans are even better (because
>> they can take quite some beating in the final phase).
>> The fight against Archaedas can take up to 10 mins :o) Have fun.
>
> Thanks for the info, though, I will be trying it from the alliance
> side, thus subsitute shaman with paladins?
Should work. The end boss fight is just quite hard. You'll fight the
adds for maybe 5-10 mins, until he unfreezes the 2 elites. They do
not only hit very hard, they also are undestroyable (for a team of
level appropriate players). That means while you have to finish the
boss off (still at 25-33% health) after a long lasting battle, you
have 2 additional bad guys someone needs to tank, and someone should
heal those 2 tanks. And still you'll want someone to actually kill
the boss. Whatever you do, it's wrong :o)
Small hint: The 2 elites can't be feared. So don't rely on
intimidating shouts and stuff.
Christian Stauffer
> I'm surprised you didn't mention the reason why it was hard: undead
> spellcasters! They don't move, we couldn't "pull" them with our
> group... so we had to gather around you, the elites and the non elite
> mobs, including spellcasters so that AOE was efficient.
This is one reason why I'm very happy when I can pull. As long as you
don't heal me or anyone else does anything, the casters are on me and
don't need to be pulled. I can grab some aggro and then charge them
to make them angry.
> Nah, next time, really, we need our mage to make use of counterspell
> and the shaman cast earthshock on them at least once in a pull, just so
> that the casters run to them instead of standing near the shackle and
> shooting at me.
The thing that really kills me when playing with Donk (hi Tim :o), is
that he seems to use earthshock on non-casters (which makes me angry
everytime because earthshock generates more aggro than anything I
have), but not on casters where it would actually be useful.
But most likely, that's just me :o)
Christian Stauffer
> collection2002 wrote:
>> If undead spellcasters are elites mobs who you've referred to, then you
>> and hunter's pet will have a field day when charged into them.
>
> Here's what you do for the undead elites if you don't have counterspell
> or silence. Tag them with Moonfire, drop to Dire Bear, and then move
> around the corner.
That's what I suggest sometimes, what I even wrote in my group combat
guide (http://www.wildcard7.com/_temp/groupcombat.pdf), and what people
generally don't let me do, because it takes too long and is.. whimpy :-)
> Everyone else does *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING*.
That's the part that usually fails :-/
> What
> happens is the undead caster will try to get line of sight on you
> again, which means they'll close in on you. Once it's in close quarters
> and away from patrols and the like, everyone else can open up on it.
Exactly.
Christian Stauffer
> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>> Moo,
>
> Roar.
/Lick
>> It happened this weekend that we attempted Stratholme with a
>> 5 man group. We wiped several times for various reasons.
>
> Get used to it. I've seen 15 man groups wipe.
Nice to hear :-)
> A 5 man Baron run can be rough.
We didn't attempt the baron, only this archivist guy scarlet side.
>> For your info, the group setup was as follows:
>> - Me (59 druid), tank (5400 AC and ~350 defense at that time)
> <snip>
>> I had some serious problems tanking there, because I had to
>> face pulls I've never seen before. For example, a pull with
>> 3 elites and 5 or more non-elites at a time.
>
> First off, you're not equipped for it. A druid tank needs to have 10K
> armor *unbuffed* before attempting this.
7.3k unbuffed now. Hell, 10k is maybe 5% damage reduction compared
to this.
>> - Kenrock, 60 mage
>>
>> Of course, the mage went AoE (I start liking this AoE thing).
>> Which means there's no point trying to build up aggro on the
>> non-elites for me (because they die quite quickly).
>
> Which is a good thing.
Of course, I like dead mobs.
> Here's how it goes:
> ...
Thanks!
> Swipe. (It has more aggro than Maul)
Can you confirm that? Do you mean swipe has more aggro because it hits
up to three targets, or does it create more aggro on 1 single mob than
a maul does? This would change my tanking style quite a bit.
> Mobs of notes:
> 1) The Eye of whatever it's name is. When you see it's message, find it
> and MF it. It dies pretty quickly.
And summons some bat-like creatures :-/
> 2) The gargoyle things fear people. Shackle or melt them before you
> deal with anything else. Otherwise, it will introduce you to half the
> instance.
Agreed.
> 3) The bansee types do silence. Silence = no healing. Melt them fast.
Never wiped because of them. Babe is a great healer, so I'm not afraid
he'll get in silence-range.
Dave
> Oh my god, stupid me. Of course. Would've been smart to wait a bit with
> AoEing, why didn't I consider that? Hrm, tired :-)
> Ok, that's actually a good hint. Although I'm still not really sure how
> to separate them, but maybe that's not even required.
You can easily sepearte them by looks (elites all look like zombies,
non-elites look like skeletons, and/or if you press "v" on your keyboard
it shows you the nameplate of the creatures which is also targeteable.
Elites have names distiguisheable from the non-elites (some are called
mangy something, the others i dont remember)
No worries, after 2-3 runs this will going to be the easy part of
stratholme :)
Cheers :)
Dave
> I'm surprised you didn't mention the reason why it was hard: undead
> spellcasters!
Ah yes, of course Chris.
In Stratholme and also Scholomance you have to learn the secret technics
of the cornerpull/backpull.
The whole instance (both Strat and scholo) will be alot easier if you do
that.
Moonfire a mob to aggro (or wahtever druid use to pull stuff) then run
back behind your party mates so the mobs will follow you to the party.
Yes even the casters will follow you a little bit at least after their
initial spell if you got out of spellcasting range.
If theres a corner availeable its even better, because they break the
casters Line of Sight completely and they have to folluw you the whole way.
Important: Until the targets are at their intended location, on one else
does anything to get aggro away from you.
Cheers :)
Dave
>> Mobs of notes:
>> 1) The Eye of whatever it's name is. When you see it's message, find it
>> and MF it. It dies pretty quickly.
>
>
> And summons some bat-like creatures :-/
Only if you wait too long to kill it quickly.
Cheers :)
Christian Stauffer
Ow ok. I had the impression they spawned when the eye of whatever
gets killed, but that's obviously wrong.
Mel
downed the baron with the group on first go, but not on the rest of my
trips:-(
As a fire mage, this is our usual technique :
(always priest + chaman healing, always warrior tanking)
main healer on me with shield, secondary healer on tank. entrave + tank
pulls, me ice shield + arcane instant AOE only.
as soon as the non-elites are dead, mage switches to dding on tanks target.
only wipes I've had on these mob groups here are on the archivist side
when a stray civil fantom gets into your zone - really need to have a
wide point of view there to avoid any aggro on them.
I'm not sure how to do this easily without a priest's entrave...
and counterspell is a mages best friend at Strat!
Mel
Christian Stauffer a écrit :
> Moo,
>
> It happened this weekend that we attempted Stratholme with a
> 5 man group. We wiped several times for various reasons. I guess
> everyone in the team was responsible for at least one wipe :o),
> and we had some bad luck and lots of lagspikes.
> I was a bit tired, too (too much WoW and not enough sleep).
>
> For your info, the group setup was as follows:
> - Me (59 druid), tank (5400 AC and ~350 defense at that time)
> - Esa (60 holy priest), healer
> - Donk, 60 shaman
> - Kenrock, 60 mage
> - Goa, 60 hunter
>
> I had some serious problems tanking there, because I had to
> face pulls I've never seen before. For example, a pull with
> 3 elites and 5 or more non-elites at a time. Of course, the
> mage went AoE (I start liking this AoE thing). Which means
> there's no point trying to build up aggro on the non-elites
> for me (because they die quite quickly). So I tried to
> focus on the elites. I had problems building aggro on them
> while the mage did AoE damage, and I had serious trouble
> even picking them between my groupmates, the non-elite zerg
> and all that arcane explosion going on.
>
> Theoretically, it would be best If I was able to pull all
> elites to a place, while the mage finishes of the non-elites
> in another place. So he wouldn't aggro my mobs, and I would
> not waste aggro on the non-elite mobs because i target them
> all the time while searching for the elite ones.
> Having that said, I see no way to do this :o)
>
> Are there any tactics or hints for such pulls? To sum it up,
> I need a bit of advice how to:
> - generate more aggro on the elites than the AoEing mage does
> or getting them somewhere the mage doesn't reach them
> - select the elites out of the total chaos
>
Simon Nejmann
<wildc...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>"Dave" <da...@news.tk> wrote:
>
>> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>>
>>>> Mobs of notes:
>>>> 1) The Eye of whatever it's name is. When you see it's message, find it
>>>> and MF it. It dies pretty quickly.
>>>
>>>
>>> And summons some bat-like creatures :-/
>>
>> Only if you wait too long to kill it quickly.
>
>Ow ok. I had the impression they spawned when the eye of whatever
>gets killed, but that's obviously wrong.
When an eye spots any of you it stops in its tracks and yells
something about intruders - this is often your first and only warning.
About 5-10(?) seconds later the eye opens a portal and summons 2-4
gargoyles.
If you kill the eye before the portal opens no gargoyles come. I have
no idea if the eye keeps summoning - I have never seen it live that
long.
The eyes are easy to kill though - they have perhaps about 500 health
(I can easily one hit them with Mind Blast).
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Jack D
>
> Adam Russell wrote:
>
>> You might reduce your pull by 3 with ice trap, sheep, and shackle. Dont
>> know if shaman could add to that as I am alliance.
>
> undead are immune to sheep.
True, but you can use the polymorph on the Thuzadin casters as they are
humanoid.
--
http://www.new-roots.com/
Nerghal - Undead Warlock lvl 60 - Bloodscalp EU
Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 10 - Bloodscalp EU
Chasey - Undead Priest lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
Brian
alt.games.warcraft.
>"Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>>> Moo,
>>
>> Roar.
>
>/Lick
>
>>> It happened this weekend that we attempted Stratholme with a
>>> 5 man group. We wiped several times for various reasons.
>>
>> Get used to it. I've seen 15 man groups wipe.
>
>Nice to hear :-)
>
>> A 5 man Baron run can be rough.
>
>We didn't attempt the baron, only this archivist guy scarlet side.
Archivist is arguably harder than Baron. Not the boss, really. I've heard
of a pack of rogues stealth-running him and Willey. But getting there.
The inside of the chapel can be *very* challenging.
Brian
--
ICQ#: 68214833 | AIM: LineNoise54
.
Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.
Noal McDonald
> "Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Here's what you do for the undead elites if you don't have counterspell
> > or silence. Tag them with Moonfire, drop to Dire Bear, and then move
> > around the corner.
>
> That's what I suggest sometimes, what I even wrote in my group combat
> guide (http://www.wildcard7.com/_temp/groupcombat.pdf), and what people
> generally don't let me do, because it takes too long and is.. whimpy :-)
Walking back from the graveyard after yet another wipe takes longer.
> > Everyone else does *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING*.
>
> That's the part that usually fails :-/
If you're main tank, you should be calling the shots. If anyone
repeatedly fails to follow directions, give 'em the boot.
Regards,
Noal
Stoneskin
> >That and the horrible 10 elite-pulls we did ;)
>
> Ouch! Those normally hurt in my experience... :(
>
>
> Ps. Shadow priest spell Silence is also good against them casters...
> *Muahaha* :D
/wave
--
Stoneskin
My personal army of Sash Crackers on Sunstrider are...
Necrofear - lvl 60 Undead Priest
Relinquished - lvl 22 Undead Warlock
Jericho - lvl 19 Undead Mage
Wartorn - lvl 18 Tauren Warrior
Jigen - lvl 12 Orc Rogue
Squeak - lvl 14 Troll Hunter
Stoneskin - lvl 4 Orc Shaman
Nightmane - lvl 2 Tauren Druid