BM Hunter random group question
WetDogSasky
FINALLY getting into dungeons that I thought I'd never see, thanks to
the new LFG tool. I'm playing a 74 Troll Hunter that is BM spec.
Should I join the group as a tank or dps? I'm always lowest on the dps
meter. Is this due to my pet also dealer damage, hence taking it away
from me. Or do hunters tend to get out-damaged by Shaman, DK's and
Warriors?
Shiflet
"WetDogSasky" <bcre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:21a0707f-c806-429c...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Hey guys, like I said in an earlier post I am back to playing an
> FINALLY getting into dungeons that I thought I'd never see, thanks to
> the new LFG tool. I'm playing a 74 Troll Hunter that is BM spec.
> Should I join the group as a tank or dps?
If you're a hunter, you're DPS...not sure it will even LET you sign up as
tank. Hunters aren't tanks, no matter how good their pets do soloing.
> I'm always lowest on the dps meter. Is this due to my pet also dealer
> damage, hence taking it away from me.
The pet's damage is included in your DPS. If your "real" dps is 1.5k, and
your pet does say, 500 dps, damage meters will show your DPS as 2k.
>Or do hunters tend to get out-damaged by Shaman, DK's and Warriors?
Depends on skill, gear, fight, spec, and rotation of all those involved.
Against trash mobs for example, a lot of damage comes from aoe, and hunter
aoe isn't quite as strong as many other classes. DKs have death and decay,
spreading diseases via pestilence, blood boil, and depending on spec, other
multihit abilities like wandering plague and heart strike. Warriors have
cleave, sweeping strikes, whirlwind, and bladestorm. And shamans have stuff
like chain lightning and now fire nova, all in addition to whatever single
target abilities they're using in the meantime, so hunters may not be doing
as much on trash pulls. On single target fights though, their damage should
be comparable, if not outright higher. Admittedly though, BM is more of a
leveling/soloing spec, with Survival or Marksmanship generally being better
for DPS.
WetDogSasky
> "WetDogSasky" <bcrew...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Thank you very much for clearing that up for me. I appreciate it.
I think I'll be
duel-speccing her then. I'll research Survival vs Markmanship for when
I do
the dungeons with her. I am so glad Blizzard did the cross-realm
thing. I am
seeing so many things I've never seen before. The game is fun again,
for me.
Shiflet
> I think I'll be duel-speccing her then.
A good idea.
> I'll research Survival vs Markmanship for when I do the dungeons with her.
I don't claim to be an expert on hunters, cause, well, I'm not. But from
what I've seen, the majority of hunters I've grouped with in both heroics
and grouped with(and fought against) in PvP are survival. Not sure if it's a
better spec for DPS, or if it just has a simpler rotation, but survival
hunters seem to be a lot more common in my experience than marksman hunters.
> I am so glad Blizzard did the cross-realm thing.
Same here.
Ashen Shugar
like...
At present I hear Survival is the spec for maximum dps. I can't help
with any details though.
Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!
ThomasH
> I think it was WetDogSasky <bcre...@yahoo.com> that wrote something
> like...
>
>> On Dec 14, 8:53 pm, "Shiflet" <rshif...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> "WetDogSasky" <bcrew...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:21a0707f-c806-429c...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Hey guys, like I said in an earlier post I am back to playing an
>>>> FINALLY getting into dungeons that I thought I'd never see, thanks to
>>>> the new LFG tool. I'm playing a 74 Troll Hunter that is BM spec.
>>>> Should I join the group as a tank or dps?
>>> If you're a hunter, you're DPS...not sure it will even LET you sign up as
>>> tank. Hunters aren't tanks, no matter how good their pets do soloing.
>>>
>>>> I'm always lowest on the dps meter. Is this due to my pet also dealer
>>>> damage, hence taking it away from me.
>>> The pet's damage is included in your DPS. If your "real" dps is 1.5k, and
>>> your pet does say, 500 dps, damage meters will show your DPS as 2k.
>>>
>>>> Or do hunters tend to get out-damaged by Shaman, DK's and Warriors?
>>> Depends on skill, gear, fight, spec, and rotation of all those involved.
>>> Against trash mobs for example, a lot of damage comes from aoe, and hunter
>>> aoe isn't quite as strong as many other classes.
>>
>> I think I'll be duel-speccing her then. I'll research Survival vs Markmanship
>> for when I do the dungeons with her.
>
> with any details though.
Survival is usually the best DPS, unless you grab alot of gear with
armor penetration; then MM becomes a viable spec. I don't like SV, and
stayed BM until I had the gear to become MM. I did not do poorly even in
BM spec! (4 to 5k DPS in raids while I had mainly 200-213-219 gear)
That said, MM and SV hunters have the best AoE capabilities together
with locks and DK's. Volley is awesome when you're fighting 4 mobs or
more... In my guild, hunters are usually among the top DPSsers, almost
regardless of gear ;-)
BM hunters are less good with AoE, but their single target damage is
similar to the other specs, as long as your pet stays alive and on it's
target. My advice on pets for BM's: a Wolf, Raptor or Devilsaur scored
highest according to Shandara's spreadsheet:
http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t30710-wotlk_dps_spreadsheet/
--
Greets, Thomas.
Bulgaroth (Hunter), Latigo (DK), Darkhulk (Druid), and Smallwall
(Paladin) on Argent Dawn EU.
Shiflet
"ThomasH" <T123H456remo...@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:hg76jv$8p6$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> That said, MM and SV hunters have the best AoE capabilities together with
> locks and DK's. Volley is awesome when you're fighting 4 mobs or more...
> In my guild, hunters are usually among the top DPSsers, almost regardless
> of gear ;-)
Really? Looking at recount in every group I've been in, Volley's average
damage was a fair bit lower than that of the AoE damage of DKs, locks,
shadow priests, even warriors. Shamans and the few mages I've run with(I
almost never get grouped with mages, weird) usually top them, too. On single
target fights they're usually at or near the top, but on AoE trash pulls,
even well geared hunters don't fare THAT well in terms of DPS from what I've
seen.
nuts
They don't. It depends on many factors: skill, shot rotation, gear, spec.
A BM hunter will do less damage that a SV hunter, as BM tends to favour
pet damage and pet armor over hunter DPS. In any case your DPS meter
should also show the damage dealt by your pet.
As for best DPS spec:
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/09/the-best-hunter-dps-spec/
On PvE, SV pets lose aggro easily, but playing SV is definitely more fun!
Steve Kaye
> "WetDogSasky" <bcre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:21a0707f-c806-429c...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> Hey guys, like I said in an earlier post I am back to playing an
>> FINALLY getting into dungeons that I thought I'd never see, thanks to
>> the new LFG tool. I'm playing a 74 Troll Hunter that is BM spec.
>> Should I join the group as a tank or dps?
>
>> damage, hence taking it away from me.
>
> The pet's damage is included in your DPS. If your "real" dps is 1.5k, and
> your pet does say, 500 dps, damage meters will show your DPS as 2k.
That depends upon the damage meter. Some include it in the player's
dps, some have it separate and some have the option to choose between
the two. I believe that Recount gives you the option.
The way to tell which way your damage meter works is to look for your
pet's name in the list. If it's there then you need to add it's number
on to yours to get the total dps.
steve.kaye
nuts
>> The pet's damage is included in your DPS. If your "real" dps is 1.5k,
>> and your pet does say, 500 dps, damage meters will show your DPS as 2k.
>
> That depends upon the damage meter. Some include it in the player's
> dps, some have it separate and some have the option to choose between
> the two. I believe that Recount gives you the option.
>
> The way to tell which way your damage meter works is to look for your
> pet's name in the list. If it's there then you need to add it's number
> on to yours to get the total dps.
I believe recount doesn't even show pet dmg by default. You have to turn
the option on.
Shiflet
"nuts" <nusp...@re.net> wrote in message
news:hg7j06$rdo$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> I believe recount doesn't even show pet dmg by default. You have to turn
> the option on.
Default for Recount shows your pet's dps as part of your dps. There's an
option to show pet damage seperately from your own, but THAT you have to
turn on. If you don't turn it on, your dps on recount will actually be the
dps you and your pet deal combined.
Rob Wynne
> Survival is usually the best DPS, unless you grab alot of gear with
> armor penetration; then MM becomes a viable spec. I don't like SV, and
> stayed BM until I had the gear to become MM. I did not do poorly even in
> BM spec! (4 to 5k DPS in raids while I had mainly 200-213-219 gear)
>
Even without ArPen, MM is plenty viable. SV edges it, but not by enough to
make it a bad choice of spec.
With a large amount of ArPen, stand back. MM is insane. :)
> That said, MM and SV hunters have the best AoE capabilities together
> with locks and DK's. Volley is awesome when you're fighting 4 mobs or
> more... In my guild, hunters are usually among the top DPSsers, almost
> regardless of gear ;-)
>
Eh, Volley is no longer *useless*, but it does not compare with more
AoE-heavy classes. Our first trip into ICC, the melee AoEers were putting
up some *insane* numbers. At first, I thought I was off my game, but when
I looked more closely, I was 9th on the meter with my normal output. The
paladins and warriors were all topping 10k. Yeesh!
> BM hunters are less good with AoE, but their single target damage is
> similar to the other specs, as long as your pet stays alive and on it's
> target. My advice on pets for BM's: a Wolf, Raptor or Devilsaur scored
> highest according to Shandara's spreadsheet:
I was a BM hunter all the way up to Ulduar. I think it's kinda sad how far
they lag behind now. A hunter has to be *amazing* to put up respectable
raid numbers. (I know such a hunter, but she's a rare thing.)
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2010: Jan 8-10, 2010 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
ThomasH
Well, I'm always near the top on the Whelps in Onyxia... During that
phase I was at about 11k DPS, similar to the locks...
Yesterday I was called into an Ony-25 PUG to help a few guild-alts...
Buffing didn't really happen, and I still managed 6.2k DPS on average
throughout the whole encounter. I was just behind a rogue.
And no my gear ain't all that imba... Maybe 232 average.
ThomasH
> Even without ArPen, MM is plenty viable. SV edges it, but not by enough to
> make it a bad choice of spec.
>
> With a large amount of ArPen, stand back. MM is insane. :)
Well, a guildy of mine has similar gear as me, and he has a SV / MM dual
spec. He does about 5-10% more damage as SV than as MM. We agreed he'd
stay SV, I stay MM so we optimally buff eachother and the raid.
>> That said, MM and SV hunters have the best AoE capabilities together
>> with locks and DK's. Volley is awesome when you're fighting 4 mobs or
>> more... In my guild, hunters are usually among the top DPSsers, almost
>> regardless of gear ;-)
>
> Eh, Volley is no longer *useless*, but it does not compare with more
> AoE-heavy classes. Our first trip into ICC, the melee AoEers were putting
> up some *insane* numbers. At first, I thought I was off my game, but when
> I looked more closely, I was 9th on the meter with my normal output. The
> paladins and warriors were all topping 10k. Yeesh!
Ehm, I did 10-11k DPS on that trash, I was 3rd highest after a DK and
another hunter. And as I said, my gear ain't all that stellar (average
232 iLevel, but pretty well balanced for MM). Warriors don't score high
in my raid group; it's mostly Warlocks, Hunters and the DK's trumping
the AoE meters.
Oh, at the trash before Deathwhisper I was number 1, with 11k DPS again.
>> BM hunters are less good with AoE, but their single target damage is
>> similar to the other specs, as long as your pet stays alive and on it's
>> target. My advice on pets for BM's: a Wolf, Raptor or Devilsaur scored
>> highest according to Shandara's spreadsheet:
>
> I was a BM hunter all the way up to Ulduar. I think it's kinda sad how far
> they lag behind now. A hunter has to be *amazing* to put up respectable
> raid numbers. (I know such a hunter, but she's a rare thing.
Well, as I wrote before, I stayed BM all the way through Onyxia. My BM
DPS was about 90% of my MM DPS, I just enjoy MM more. Maybe I'll try BM
in raid one or two times, see what damage I can do ;-)
Shiflet
> Well, I'm always near the top on the Whelps in Onyxia... During that phase
> I was at about 11k DPS, similar to the locks...
Maybe raid buffed volley gets better, or maybe the hunters I see all suck,
cause when I look at recount, for pretty much every hunter I've run
with(including those in fairly nice gear) volley is hitting for quite a bit
less than AoEs from other classes...
ti...@thsu.org
wrote:
> Well, I'm always near the top on the Whelps in Onyxia... During that
> phase I was at about 11k DPS, similar to the locks...
My guild uses heroism during phase 2, when Onyxia is in the air, with
*all* ranged on her. The objective is to bring her down before she has
a chance to deep breath.
Basically, that's the most reliable way to get a sub-5 minute kill on
Onyxia. The ranged just have to completely ignore the adds, focus on
Ony, and get her to phase 3.
The melee can take of the adds by themselves. Our melee just
obliterates the whelps, under heroism. Their AoE numbers are just
insane.
For example, our DK did 47k dps on the whelps. No, I am not missing a
decimal point. He spiked at 47702 dps during the whelps, according to
our Dec1 WoL report of our Ony25 kill.
--
// T.Hsu
ThomasH
> My guild uses heroism during phase 2, when Onyxia is in the air, with
> *all* ranged on her. The objective is to bring her down before she has
> a chance to deep breath.
>
> Basically, that's the most reliable way to get a sub-5 minute kill on
> Onyxia. The ranged just have to completely ignore the adds, focus on
> Ony, and get her to phase 3.
>
> The melee can take of the adds by themselves. Our melee just
> obliterates the whelps, under heroism. Their AoE numbers are just
> insane.
>
> For example, our DK did 47k dps on the whelps. No, I am not missing a
> decimal point. He spiked at 47702 dps during the whelps, according to
> our Dec1 WoL report of our Ony25 kill.
Sounds great, hehe... I didn't look up my exact DPS in that phase, I
just know my DPS in recount goes up during the AoE phase, at the same
pace as the other AoE-folks.
Furthermore, we're still sticking to the general tactics, nothing fancy
yet ;-)
yojrod
> For example, our DK did 47k dps on the whelps. No, I am not missing a
> decimal point. He spiked at 47702 dps during the whelps, according to
> our Dec1 WoL report of our Ony25 kill.
I'm pretty sure that's the last time you are going to see numbers like
that because of the AoE damage cap imposed by 3.3:
"Area-of-Effect Damage Caps: We’ve redesigned the way area damage is
capped when hitting many targets. Instead of a hard cap on total
damage done, the game now caps the total damage done at a value equal
to the damage the spell would do if it hit 10 targets. In other words,
if a spell does 1000 damage to each target, it would hit up to 10
targets for 1000 each, but with more than 10 targets, each target
would take 1000 damage divided by the number of targets. 20 targets
would be hit for 500 damage each in that example"
Steve Kaye
> On Dec 20, 11:34 am, t...@thsu.org wrote:
>
>> For example, our DK did 47k dps on the whelps. No, I am not missing a
>> decimal point. He spiked at 47702 dps during the whelps, according to
>> our Dec1 WoL report of our Ony25 kill.
>
> I'm pretty sure that's the last time you are going to see numbers like
> that because of the AoE damage cap imposed by 3.3:
>
> capped when hitting many targets. Instead of a hard cap on total
> damage done, the game now caps the total damage done at a value equal
> to the damage the spell would do if it hit 10 targets. In other words,
> if a spell does 1000 damage to each target, it would hit up to 10
> targets for 1000 each, but with more than 10 targets, each target
> would take 1000 damage divided by the number of targets. 20 targets
> would be hit for 500 damage each in that example"
There has been an AoE damage cap since patch 2.2, they have just changed
how it is calculated.
Like the patch notes said: "We've *redesigned* the way area damage is
capped..."
The previous damage cap was a hard cap that was unaffected by gear where
the new cap *is* affected by gear.
This sounds like it could be a buff but it could just as easily be a
stealth nerf depending on what the previous hard caps were.
steve.kaye