Any other MMORPG recommendations?
BobJ
I've been playing WoW off and on since launch, and it's getting really
repetitive. I've tried LotRO, which seemed really slow and boring, and
also Age Of Conan, which was to buggy.
Peter Knutsen
> Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
Here's a *very* different MMORPG:
< http://www.eveonline.com/ >
No character classes, no character levels, no grind to increase
character abilities, all players are on one server (except China has its
own server), it's legal to buy in-game money, and almost all in-game
objects are player-manufactured.
Some claim that EVE has a rather steep learning curve
< http://rattlab.net/wp-content/uploads/eve-online-learning-curve.jpg >
but I've been playing it for almost 3 years now, and in general the game
mechanics are *much* more transparent than WoW's (not having character
levels simplifies things hugely, meaning the "complexity budget" can be
spent on worthwhile things).
The way to "win" EVE is to first try all aspects of game play, figure
out which ones you consider fun, and then focus on those.
This video attempts to explain the open-ended "sandbox" nature of the game:
< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU >
And this video shows how crazy the developpers are:
< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q >
(TNot 100% safe for work)
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Steve Kaye
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 08:00:39 +0100, Peter Knutsen
> <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 29/12/2009 05:49, BobJ wrote:
>>> Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
>> [...]
>>
>> Here's a *very* different MMORPG:
>> < http://www.eveonline.com/ >
>>
>> No character classes, no character levels, no grind to increase
>> character abilities, all players are on one server (except China has its
>> own server), it's legal to buy in-game money, and almost all in-game
>> objects are player-manufactured.
>
> munchkins abandon the game early on when they realize that they can't
> join the game, get given (or buy) a wad of ISK and fly out the door in
> a starship the size of a small moon. When they realize they have to
> learn the necessary skills in real-time, they stamp their foot,
> whimper, and leave. Brilliant.
My biggest issue, and the one that ended my time in Eve, is that the
skill learning is limited to one skill PER ACCOUNT. So I can have three
characters but I can only progress one at once (unless I pay for an
account per character).
As a major altoholic, that was a game killer for me.
steve.kaye
--
Jengu - 80 Undead Death Knight Clokk - 74 Tauren Druid
Jelan - 80 Troll Priest Miho - 72 Blood Elf Rogue
Kibbs - 80 Blood Elf Paladin Jaille - 70 Blood Elf Warlock
nuts
I'm off Wow for the holydays and I've gotten into Champions online.
Theme is fascinating - become a superhero! -, great character
customization (bliz could learn a thing or two here), nice cartoonish
look.
Fights do seem a bit clumsy though.
You may want to try it, I got it from steam for about 9�
Peter Knutsen
> <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
>> On 29/12/2009 05:49, BobJ wrote:
>>> Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
>> [...]
>>
>> Here's a *very* different MMORPG:
>> < http://www.eveonline.com/>
>>
>> No character classes, no character levels, no grind to increase
>> character abilities, all players are on one server (except China has its
>> own server), it's legal to buy in-game money, and almost all in-game
>> objects are player-manufactured.
>
Yes, some players eventually don't need to pay real-world money to play
any more. They'll just earn in-game money either via in-game business
(buying, selling, producing, investing, although the later might not be
a good idea; several in-game banks have crashed recently, even the one I
worked for) or various grinds, and then - EULA-legally - use those money
to buy subscription extentions.
Some PVP players have two character, possibly on seperate accounts, one
character for doing the PVP and one for earning the money (the ISK),
since PVP isn't profitable in itself (although it can be if PVP is used
to gain and hold control of a profitable solar system).
> munchkins abandon the game early on when they realize that they can't
> join the game, get given (or buy) a wad of ISK and fly out the door in
> a starship the size of a small moon. When they realize they have to
> learn the necessary skills in real-time, they stamp their foot,
While skill training takes place in real-time, there's still the grind
to gain money and standing (=reputation), although that is to some
extent optional. The game is quite playable even for those with little
in-game money.
> whimper, and leave. Brilliant.
>
>> Some claim that EVE has a rather steep learning curve
>> < http://rattlab.net/wp-content/uploads/eve-online-learning-curve.jpg>
>> but I've been playing it for almost 3 years now, and in general the game
>> mechanics are *much* more transparent than WoW's (not having character
>> levels simplifies things hugely, meaning the "complexity budget" can be
>> spent on worthwhile things).
>
> Thankfully, the intricacy of the skill systems - simple to learn, but
> subtly put together for best effect - also puts off the munchkins.
> There are still griefers in the game, but at least they don't have
> free rein and at least they have to be good at what they do, heh.
At the same time, the skill system allows new players to contribute.
Each of the five levels of any skill takes 5 times longer to learn than
the previous, and each skill level typically gives a 5% or 2% bonus, so
a new player might have Shield Operation at level 4 and Shield
Management at 4, while a veteran player is "maxed out" at Shield
Operation 5 and Shield Management 5, meaning he has 5% more shield HP
and they recharge 5% faster.
In particular in PVP, new players can fly as "tacklers", in cheap yet
highly useful small ships, and help pin down enemy ships while the big
hitters do the damage.
As for PVE, ships are best used againt targets of their own size, and
this means that a veteran player flying a battleship can benefit a lot
from having a "wingman" flying in a smaller ship, e.g. a frigate or
destroyer to take care of the small mobs, while the veteran player in
his battleship deals with the battleship- and battlecruiser-sized mobs.
> Oh, and Eve has THE BEST PvP in any MMO game. Anything else is bland
> by comparision. WoW, WAR, etc., take note.
WoW PVP certainly seems very twitcy to me.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Peter Knutsen
> My biggest issue, and the one that ended my time in Eve, is that the
> skill learning is limited to one skill PER ACCOUNT. So I can have three
> characters but I can only progress one at once (unless I pay for an
> account per character).
>
> As a major altoholic, that was a game killer for me.
I started with one account and one character, then in March this year I
got myself a second account. It's much more manageable now with the
skill queue system, than it was before.
Also, there's not all that much need to have alts, since EVE doesn't
have character classes.
My alt is mostly a "little brother" to my main, in terms of skillz,
although he's skipping a few skillz that my main has, and is focusing
heavily on a few that my main isn't too good at. Mostly he's just trying
to catch and train all the crucial skillz to the highest level.
A new player should have just one character, and focus on improving said
character's general abilities, meaning his attributes (via
attribute-improving skill[1] and cybernetic implants), and then using
those general abilities as a platform for exploring all aspects of the
skill system.
[1] Rather a mistake of CCP to include those in the game, but since
they're there, you have to train them.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Justin Thompson
<pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
I played for a while - but soon gave up.
I found it EXTREAMLY tedious. I thought all the trading etc sounded
tedious so went for the killing pirates type role for rep and money.
In no time I seemed to be getting repeat quests and the travel was
horrendous. Leave starbase... hyperspace to stargate.... 1 min to
apporach stargate....jump....hyperspace to next stargate....1 min to
approcah..... jump... It took AGES... (and I mean over an hour) to
just travel to a reasonably signirficant new area to get next quest
chain... that ended up with almost identical quests.
And the fighting, for th emost part was just to toggle through a whole
host of red crosses and let the weapons systems kill them off in auto
mode... we me just telling the ship to "keep disance to X" where X was
optimum range for my ships guns.
I presume I am missing something - but the game game me no clues about
there being light at the end of the tuinnel ... it just promised more
of the same!!! Well - "no thanks"
What was I doing wrong?
Cheers
Joe Claffey Jr.
nuts <desp...@ru.net> wrote:
> I'm off Wow for the holydays and I've gotten into Champions online.
> Theme is fascinating - become a superhero! -, great character
> customization (bliz could learn a thing or two here), nice cartoonish
> look.
> Fights do seem a bit clumsy though.
> You may want to try it, I got it from steam for about 9�
I really wanted to like CO (I've been playing the PnP version since the
early 80s), but there just didn't seem to be enough quests or zones.
I admit that I would *love* to be able to customize my WoW toons the way
I could customize my CO characters. There were a lot of options - enough
to fiddle with for hours.
--
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something. " - Pancho Villa
"Indiana" Joe Claffey
india...@gmail.com
Jamie Kahn Genet
I found Eve to have very poorly written beginner's quest text with
multiple spelling mistakes. Granted that was a couple years ago, but it
was supposedly a mature MMO even then. The help was not under 'Help'
(*blink* I actually had to ask in chat where it was!!!), the quest goals
were stated so badly on my second (I think it was) beginner quest that I
had to ask for help, and there didn't seem to be any interesting story.
Basically it had no heart, which made it a fail for me even if it hadn't
been so shoddy in other ways.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Jamie Kahn Genet
Oh, I'd forgotten the super tedious travel - ugg. That was another
reason I gave up.
Justin Thompson
<butt...@safe-mail.net> wrote:
>
>Guess who was using Autopilot? NEVER use Autopilot.
>
>
Can you elaborate? why not?
It picked what looked like a reasonable route... went hyperspace
whenever possible and at max speed when it could not hyperspace all
the remaining time.
How could I do significantly better? At least for the hour journeys,
with autopilot I could go do something else while it got on with it,
rather than stay and micro manage it.
Cheers in advance.
Steve Kaye
> On 29/12/2009 15:08, Steve Kaye wrote:
>> My biggest issue, and the one that ended my time in Eve, is that the
>> skill learning is limited to one skill PER ACCOUNT. So I can have three
>> characters but I can only progress one at once (unless I pay for an
>> account per character).
>>
>> As a major altoholic, that was a game killer for me.
>
> I started with one account and one character, then in March this year I
> got myself a second account. It's much more manageable now with the
> skill queue system, than it was before.
>
> Also, there's not all that much need to have alts, since EVE doesn't
> have character classes.
Well, it might not have anything called character classes but you can
choose to be a miner, a fighter or a trader and learn the appropriate
skills to become better at your chosen area of play.
Of course, one character can be all of those things but it would take
longer than having three characters (on three accounts which is the bit
I don't like) each specializing in one area.
Justin Thompson
<butt...@safe-mail.net> wrote:
>
>Autopilot doesn't drop you off close to a Gate, and you'll have a
>minute or two as you get close to the jump point. Do it manually and
>you will be mere metres away from being able to jump through the gate.
>Much faster. You may have noticed when you started chugging away on
>the final approach to the Gate that other ships zoomed past you and
>jumped almost immediately - they were using manual flight.
>
>Also, while you are slowly approaching the Gate in less law-abiding
>sectors, this is the time when those pesky player 'Rats will attempt
>to blow you away.
>
>It took me a while to realize that Autopilot is generally a no-no,
>too. :)
Aahhh - thanks - I did see other ships zoom past but they always
"bigger" ships than mine - so I assumed it was some ship addon that
was only avail on the massive ships and I had to equip to enable that
feature.
Cheers
Jamie Kahn Genet
Nope, it's just a pointless game feature that makes no logical sense. As
if a computer couldn't handle a jump better than a human with manual
control...
DarkRose
I've always kept Guildwars around as a backup since it's always free,
but haven't touched it in months. I've gotten spoiled with WoW and
hate the movement and controls and crafting system in GW anymore...
Peter Knutsen
> Peter Knutsen wrote:
>> I started with one account and one character, then in March this year
>> I got myself a second account. It's much more manageable now with the
>> skill queue system, than it was before.
>>
>> Also, there's not all that much need to have alts, since EVE doesn't
>> have character classes.
>
> Well, it might not have anything called character classes but you can
> choose to be a miner, a fighter or a trader and learn the appropriate
> skills to become better at your chosen area of play.
Each skill in the game has five levels, each taking five times as much
time (real-time) to train as the previous.
For an easy skill (low "rank"), the first level might take ten minutes
or so, the 2nd level about an hour, the 3rd level 4-5 hours, the 4th
level about a day, and the 5th level less than a week, so in less than 7
days you can train such a skill as high as it can go.
A hard skill (high "rank") starts at a longer base training time,
perhaps an hour for the 1st level, 4-5 hours for the 2nd, a day for the
3rd, a bit less than a week for the 4th and a bit less than a month for
the 5th. A *very* hard one might take a month and a half to train from
nothing to 5th.
Usually, each skill level gives a small bonus, like 5% or sometimes as
low as 2%. This means that you don't in any meaningful sense of the word
*need* the fifth level. Someone with a skill at level 4 is almost as
good as someone with level 5.
Still, in PVE, enemies regenerate lost shield hit points, however, so if
you do 5% more damage than the other guy, you're likely to take down
each enemy rather more than 5% more quickly than he can.
Also, there are multiple skillz affecting the same thing in different
ways. One skill improves missile damage, another skill improves missile
rate-of-fire. One skill improves shield hit points, another skill
improves shield hit point regeneration.
My point is, new players should not obsess about getting skillz to level
5. Level 4 is plenty for pretty much anything, which mean that in a very
few months of playing, one can cover a lot of ground.
> Of course, one character can be all of those things but it would take
> longer than having three characters (on three accounts which is the bit
> I don't like) each specializing in one area.
Not all that much longer. Train everything to level 4, and try out
stuff, then decide what you want to specialize in.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Peter Knutsen
> Autopilot doesn't drop you off close to a Gate, and you'll have a
> minute or two as you get close to the jump point. Do it manually and
> you will be mere metres away from being able to jump through the gate.
> Much faster. You may have noticed when you started chugging away on
> the final approach to the Gate that other ships zoomed past you and
> jumped almost immediately - they were using manual flight.
I started playing in March 2007, but not too long before that, it wasn't
possible to warp directly to a stargate, even on manual flight. When you
warped to a stargate, you'd arrive 15 km in front of it, and *have* to
fly those 15 km on manual.
From what I've heard, players created absolute metric assloads of
"place bookmarks" (3D space coordinate saved in the game interface)that
were placed 15 km in front of each stargate from a given direction (e.g.
from planet XYZ to the stargate to system WBR) and they'd just to those
and thus arrive less than 1 km from the stargate, and be able to jump
directly. I think these bookmarks were even sold from player to player,
although I'm not sure (but think about it: With thousands of solar
systems, each having 2-4 gates, perhaps more, and each easily having a
dozen places to jump from relative to each gate, it'd be huge).
This created *huge* server load (I gather that the bookmarked
coordinates were not stored on players' computers), and eventually CCP
changed the game so that it was possible to warp to zero, but only if
travelling on manual.
I don't know when the change happened, only that it was before I
started. I figure it was something like the end of 2006, but I don't know.
> Also, while you are slowly approaching the Gate in less law-abiding
> sectors, this is the time when those pesky player 'Rats will attempt
> to blow you away.
>
> It took me a while to realize that Autopilot is generally a no-no,
> too. :)
I use autopilot a lot, but then again I'm not a PVP player. Usually I
fly from my mission base to the mission place, or I move goods not
valuable enough to make me worthwhile to "suicide gank" by player
robbers, and if the destination is more than one jump away, I'll often
use the autopilot.
If I fly PVP (e.g. if I get re-involved in Factional Warfare) or if I'm
in a low-security or no-security system, or if I were to move a very
valuable cargo (such as a hugely expensive space station - the
equivalent of purple gear, I guess - that I bought for my "guild" some
time ago), I'd fly on manual, of course.
Even when flying on manual, I'll often use the "set destination"
function. This hightligts the next stargate that I should warp to
(making it yellow instead of white), and also if I warp first and then
turn on the autopilot, my ship will automatically got through the gate
once it arrives, meaning more potential to go AFK (which, again, I'll
only do during routine travel, or if I have a bio emergency).
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Peter Knutsen
> Aahhh - thanks - I did see other ships zoom past but they always
> "bigger" ships than mine - so I assumed it was some ship addon that
> was only avail on the massive ships and I had to equip to enable that
> feature.
You should have asked veteran players about that. I do a lot to help new
players, and Im far from unique in that regard.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Shiflet
"DarkRose" <swa...@rfiusa.com> wrote in message
news:43ced977-0416-4c09...@a6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, I have GW as well. My problem is, after beating the game with my
ranger(all 4 campaigns), I wasn't inspired to do it again with other toons.
And because of the game's "anti-grind" idea, all my other toons were max
level, and had max armor/weapons already, so there was no real "advancement"
for them.
Carl Warnell
I've started trying D&D Online, which looks interesting. Trouble is they
don't have a Mac client which means I have to reboot into Windows. A lot
of it is very derivative of WoW though. It's free so worth a go.
I tried getting into EVE but I couldn't, and I *love* space trading
games (original Elite, Frontier, FFE, Freelancer...)
--
_____ . . <|
Carl Warnell ' o/ FORE! . . |
sp...@bogart.org.uk | . . . . |
/| . . ...o
Jamie Kahn Genet
> On 29/12/2009 04:49, BobJ wrote:
> > Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
> > I've been playing WoW off and on since launch, and it's getting really
> > repetitive. I've tried LotRO, which seemed really slow and boring, and
> > also Age Of Conan, which was to buggy.
>
> I've started trying D&D Online, which looks interesting. Trouble is they
> don't have a Mac client which means I have to reboot into Windows. A lot
> of it is very derivative of WoW though. It's free so worth a go.
>
> I tried getting into EVE but I couldn't, and I *love* space trading
> games (original Elite, Frontier, FFE, Freelancer...)
Man would I kill for an Elite/Pirates! (only in space)/Escape Velocity
type MMORPG.
Steve Kaye
> On 29/12/2009 04:49, BobJ wrote:
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
>> I've been playing WoW off and on since launch, and it's getting really
>> repetitive. I've tried LotRO, which seemed really slow and boring, and
>> also Age Of Conan, which was to buggy.
>
> I've started trying D&D Online, which looks interesting. Trouble is they
> don't have a Mac client which means I have to reboot into Windows. A lot
> of it is very derivative of WoW though. It's free so worth a go.
As far as fantasy MMOs go, I'd say that it is the one that is the
furthest away from WoW that I have tried (out of EverQuest, EverQuest 2,
Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars) I'd also say that, except for
the setting, City of Heroes and Champions Online are both more like WoW
than DDO is.
There are a few things that really make DDO very different to the
fantasy MMOs I listed above:
* Melee combat is quite different in that if a friendly gets in your way
then you can't attack and that the mobs move around a lot (particularly
ranged ones)
* Normally there is zero mana and health regeneration between rest
shrines. This affects casters quite a lot more than melee characters as
they need to make sure that their mana will last to the next shrine.
This might not be an easy task if you don't know the dungeon that you
are in and so don't know how far you have to go.
* Anyone can be fairly self sufficient on their healing with potions.
With scrolls and a high enough Use Magic Device skill any class can help
out with the healing too.
* The dungeons are geared towards groups in that there are likely to be
areas that you can't get to without someone else to help. There are
runelocks that need high Charisma, Wisdom or Intelligence to open.
Other locks or doors need high Strength or Dexterity to open and some
locks need a Rogue to pick them. These are usually (always?) optional
areas so they don't prevent you from completing the quest but they will
prevent you from getting extra experience or loot.
* You can multi-class in DDO. When you get enough experience to gain a
level, you don't gain it straight away. You need to go to your class
trainer to level up. If you go to another class's trainer then you get
a level of that class instead. I think that you can choose to have up
to three different classes. You need to think this through carefully
though as you only have 20 levels to allocate and once you choose to
level up that decision is final. If you choose a class that doesn't
offer a great deal you can damage your character. You either have to
put up with, re-roll or get to level 20 and reincarnate (a re-roll with
benefits). Because of this, multi-classing is not recommended for new
players unless they are following a published character build.
* You don't get any experience for killing mobs. You get experience for
completing quests and objectives. Some of these quests might be to kill
mobs but you get the experience for the quest or objective. (Each rare
mob also has a repeatable quest tied to them so you will get experience
for killing rares)
Steve Kaye
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:15:30 +0000, Steve Kaye
> <nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> * Normally there is zero mana and health regeneration between rest
>> shrines. This affects casters quite a lot more than melee characters as
>> they need to make sure that their mana will last to the next shrine.
>> This might not be an easy task if you don't know the dungeon that you
>> are in and so don't know how far you have to go.
>
> a free mana regen necklace (I think it's a necklace?) and also a free
> healing cloak. I just repeated these quick quests half a dozen times,
> and I use those items rather than run out of mana or drink healing
> potions. They also refresh themselves every time you use a Rest
> Shrine, which is very handy indeed.
I only remember seeing something to increase your spell points on the
newbie island - I don't remember anything to actually restore or
regenerate them.
There are potions to restore some mana which drop fairly rarely* and
obviously loads of health potions drop.
* They drop rarely but I'm told that they are very cheap in the DDO
store. I stay away from buying gear in the store - I buy account
options but that's it.
> A hireling Priest is worth it's weight in gold, if put on the Auto
> Assist Party setting. You can even rez them at the shrines, and they
> last as long as you keep in the instances. They vanish when you
> return to town, if the 1 hour Contract has expired. They fight quite
> well and they also work out vastly cheaper than healing potions, too.
I've not tried using hirelings. My main is a cleric so I'd need to get
a fighter type but I think that I'd rather solo or group. Of the
dungeons that I've tried to solo they have either been doable solo or so
far from doable solo that an extra hireling wouldn't have helped.
I'd consider using one to enable me to solo a quest if it was a close
thing (and I'd tried it a lot without success) but I wouldn't use one to
just make soloing easier - I like that it's a challenge.
Tachyon
<nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>Palindrome wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:15:30 +0000, Steve Kaye
>> <nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> * Normally there is zero mana and health regeneration between rest
>>> shrines. This affects casters quite a lot more than melee characters as
>>> they need to make sure that their mana will last to the next shrine.
>>> This might not be an easy task if you don't know the dungeon that you
>>> are in and so don't know how far you have to go.
>>
>> There's a couple of quests on the Newbie Island where you can pick up
>> a free mana regen necklace (I think it's a necklace?) and also a free
>> healing cloak. I just repeated these quick quests half a dozen times,
>> and I use those items rather than run out of mana or drink healing
>> potions. They also refresh themselves every time you use a Rest
>> Shrine, which is very handy indeed.
>
>I only remember seeing something to increase your spell points on the
>newbie island - I don't remember anything to actually restore or
>regenerate them.
You may have missed them then, or possibly forgotten them...
Curative Cloak:- 1 charge per day of Cure Light Wounds, 1D8+1 per
caster level
Archivist's necklace:- 2 charges per day, restores 10 to 35 Spell
Points per charge.
Note that "day" means use of Rest Stones too, so every time you get to
use a Rest Stone, the items regain their charges. You can target
another player and use the Cure Light Wounds on them, if you wish.
Veerrry handy indeed. :).
Palindrome
Steve Kaye
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:34:32 +0000, Steve Kaye
> <nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Palindrome wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:15:30 +0000, Steve Kaye
>>> <nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> * Normally there is zero mana and health regeneration between rest
>>>> shrines. This affects casters quite a lot more than melee characters as
>>>> they need to make sure that their mana will last to the next shrine.
>>>> This might not be an easy task if you don't know the dungeon that you
>>>> are in and so don't know how far you have to go.
>>> There's a couple of quests on the Newbie Island where you can pick up
>>> a free mana regen necklace (I think it's a necklace?) and also a free
>>> healing cloak. I just repeated these quick quests half a dozen times,
>>> and I use those items rather than run out of mana or drink healing
>>> potions. They also refresh themselves every time you use a Rest
>>> Shrine, which is very handy indeed.
>> I only remember seeing something to increase your spell points on the
>> newbie island - I don't remember anything to actually restore or
>> regenerate them.
>
> You may have missed them then, or possibly forgotten them...
>
> Curative Cloak:- 1 charge per day of Cure Light Wounds, 1D8+1 per
> caster level
I hadn't forgotten that. It is a very useful item to all non-healers.
It is still a useful item to the healers too as they can save their
spell points for other things.
> Archivist's necklace:- 2 charges per day, restores 10 to 35 Spell
> Points per charge.
I remember something called the Archivist's Necklace but I missed the
fact that it had a spell point restore ability. I'll be sure to check
it out next time I pass through the newbie zone with a caster.
Steve Kaye
But I want to specialize in it all. That's the point of alts! :P
steve.kaye
Steve Kaye
> In article <kh8kj5lcprn4c9qf5...@4ax.com>,
> nuts <desp...@ru.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm off Wow for the holydays and I've gotten into Champions online.
>> Theme is fascinating - become a superhero! -, great character
>> customization (bliz could learn a thing or two here), nice cartoonish
>> look.
>> Fights do seem a bit clumsy though.
> I really wanted to like CO (I've been playing the PnP version since the
> early 80s), but there just didn't seem to be enough quests or zones.
That's partly what killed Champions Online for me too. Once you get to
level 5 you can choose one of two areas that take you to about level 13
or 14. After that, it seems that you need to do every single quest that
you find it progress.
That wouldn't have finished me off on its own but I *need* to be able to
play alts. If I play one character for a while I tend to get bored and
so I start an alt. That's no fun if the alts are then going to do the
exact same quests that you were just doing on your main.
steve.kaye
BombayMix
> Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
> I've been playing WoW off and on since launch, and it's getting really
> repetitive. I've tried LotRO, which seemed really slow and boring, and
> also Age Of Conan, which was to buggy.
You could try Allods. It’s a F2P mmo a bit of a wow clone but very
good. On par with many of the lesser P2P games like Champions. It’s in
closed beta phase 2 right now, but like a lot of F2P closed betas it
not hard to get into. Should be go into open beta soon.
evins...@gmail.com
> Does anyone have any recommendations for a different MMORPG to play?
> I've been playing WoW off and on since launch, and it's getting really
> repetitive. I've tried LotRO, which seemed really slow and boring, and
> also Age Of Conan, which was to buggy.
LOTRO is a great game, but it does not make a good first impression.
The things that make it good are not obvious at first, but emerge
gradually over a pretty long time. I didn't like it at first either,
but it ended up becoming my favorite MMO.
Champions Online is almost exactly the opposite. It's HUGE fun
immediately. You can see pretty much everything great about it almost
right away. The character creation is more fun than in any other game,
and the character powers and abilities are just a blast. The fact that
you can mix and match them more-or-less buffet style, and that you can
create a character that almost certainly looks nothing like any other
character in the world, make it even more fun. Trouble is, the fun in
Champs runs out just about the time LOTRO's is getting started. Once
you've gained your travel power and zipped around all three main zones
a few dozen times; once you've figured out that there's no game world,
there's just three very large shooting galleries; once you've realized
that all the missions are really just the same mission over and over
again with slightly different sets and costumes; at that point, you've
had all the fun you're ever going to have. And it looks like Star Trek
Online is going to be the same thing, only with way more loading
screens.
Meanwhile, your LOTRO-playing buddies who ,managed to last past the
"my god, why does anyone even play this slow, boring yawnfest" stage
are starting to say things like, "Oooooohhhh....now I get what this
class is about; this is actually really cool...no ,wait,
wait...Aaaaahhhh, I thought I got it before, but *now*....no wait,
wait....oh, this is cool. I didn't realize...oooOOOHHH! Will you look
at that? Who knew?"
EVE is really really different, in almost every way. It's so different
that if you are looking for something a little different from WoW, you
might actually want to avoid it. Try EVE, not if you want something a
*little* different, but something COMPLETELY different. Try it if you
want something that doesn't in any way at any point remind you of WoW
at all. EVE is extremely confusing at first, and perhaps frustrating,
for most people. There is a very good tutorial (the "Crash Course")
that does a good job of teaching you the basics, but once you're done
with it, you still have relatively little idea what to do. There's a
mostly black screen with some twinkling lights, a HUD display and
controls that are sort of like the cockpit of 747, with mysterious
tiny little widgets all over the place that do who-knows-what, and the
vague (and accurate) sense that if you happen to go around the wrong
corner a swarm of hostile locals will descend on you and eat your
still-twitching corpse. On the other hand, there are some things about
EVE that are really great. It's a true sandbox, that allows and
encourages players to create most of the interesting things that
happen in the game, and it's the only major MMO in which every player
in the game is on the same server. So when something significant
happens (like one of the big player-run factions suddenly,
spectacularly, and totally obliterating the other one after years of
ongoing warfare), everyone in the game experiences it. It's beautiful,
it's like nothing else anywhere, and it's HUGE. And unlike Star Trek
Online, where you feel like your starship is a tiny little Matchbox
toy creeping like a slug through a "universe" that looks like the
cheesy dance studio that your weird neighbor built in his spare
bedroom, EVE's universe looks and feels like a huge, mysterious,
dangerous universe where space is vast and majestic, and starships
travel at fantastic speeds.
Warhammer Online gets a lot of abuse, some of it deserved, but it can
be a ton of fun, too. To get the best experience of it, you need to
realize that it's really all about the Tier 4 war for control of the
fotresses and the capitol cities. When you start out, it can fool you.
It looks enough like WoW that you can maybe think it's a similar game,
but it's not, really. Think of it this way: take the Alterac Valley
battleground from WoW. Now make it about fifty times bigger. Instead
of one boss at each end in a room, make it a whole city full of bosses
and loot drops, but stick three more fortresses full of bosses in the
way, and make the teams beat those before they're allowed into the end
bosses' cities. Now take each of the battlefield objetives--
Stonehearth Bunker, Balinda's hut, Iceblood Graveyard, and so on--and
blow each one up to the size of Elwynn Forest or Tirisfal Glades, and
pack them with NPC guards for your side and the other side. Now,
starting at level 1, play this giant game of Alterac Valley to win.
Don't go in thinking, "oh yeah, just like WoW; level to endgame;raid
for gear." Instead, it's all about fighting your way to the other
side's bosses and killing them, then looting and pillaging their
capitol city. Then the world resets and you do it again. Instead of
fifteen or twenty minutes, the way AV is now, or even the sixteen hour
battles that sometimes used to happen, the battle in WAR can take
weeks. It's only fun if there are enough people logged in on both
sides to fight a pitchd battle in whatever level range you are
currently at, but when that's true, it's a blast. Oh, and it has some
quests and instances and stuff here and there. But really, nobody
cares. It also has the greatest, funniest race I've ever seen in an
MMORPG, in the Greenskins.
I guess Aion is doing really well and gaining lots of subscribers. I
can't for the life of me figure out why. I'm not going to say anything
about it; if it' succeeding that well in the marketplace, then my
impression of it must just be due to some quirk of my personality,
because clearly, thousands or millions of people find something to
like about it. I'll be damned if I know what. But maybe you're more
normal than I am, and should check it out.
Fallen Earth is getting some good notices from one of the larger
guilds I play with. I haven't been playing it, but some of my guildies
are liking it. Post-apocalypse, guns and jeeps and motorcycles,
fighting mutants and bandits and stuff in a sort of dark, sand-blown-
in-your-face, watch out for the cannibal mutants kind of world.
Guild Wars is always an option. It's getting long in the tooth now,
and lots of people (myself included) are sort of more looking forward
to Guild Wars 2, but the original remains a great game. It's pretty
different from WoW--it might be too different, but you could always
give it a try. It's gorgeous. It has some really innovative features,
not the least of which is that it has no monthly subscription fee; you
buy one or more of the game packs and that's it; that's all you ever
pay. You can either level a roleplaying character or, if you like PVP
and want to cut to the chase, you can totally skip leveling and just
make a PVP-only character that starts at max level. It has a rich and
varied PVP game that people play pretty seriously, and rolling
tournament seasons with tournament ladders in several different and
interesting PVP games within the game. It has a unique skill system
that lets you start a brand new character fully built-out, if you
want, but requires you to think strategically about which abilities
you're actually going to use. It pioneered a system of NPC companions
that enables a solo player to beat group content, and that other games
should emulate. It's pretty different from WoW, and some people say it
isn't an MMORPG at all, because of certain details of how the world
works, but it's a great game, nevertheless.
And there are others, of course. Probably some of the others are great
options, too. Good luck.
Rob Wynne
> Champions Online is almost exactly the opposite. It's HUGE fun
> immediately. You can see pretty much everything great about it almost
> right away. The character creation is more fun than in any other game,
> and the character powers and abilities are just a blast. The fact that
> you can mix and match them more-or-less buffet style, and that you can
> create a character that almost certainly looks nothing like any other
> character in the world, make it even more fun. Trouble is, the fun in
> Champs runs out just about the time LOTRO's is getting started. Once
> you've gained your travel power and zipped around all three main zones
> a few dozen times; once you've figured out that there's no game world,
> there's just three very large shooting galleries; once you've realized
> that all the missions are really just the same mission over and over
> again with slightly different sets and costumes; at that point, you've
> had all the fun you're ever going to have.
Sadly, this confirms my suspicion that Champions Online isn't City of
Heroes 2, but rather City of Heroes Redux. Pity, I had hoped Emmert might
be able to build on his experience and avoid the mistakes of the first
go-round. (I played CoH for the better part of 3 years, but what you
describe above was its fatal flaw from the beginning. I don't think I ever
got a character to 50, and eventually I ran out of interesting new ideas
for alts.)
> And it looks like Star Trek
> Online is going to be the same thing, only with way more loading
> screens.
>
I have the beta client installed, but I haven't found the time (or
enthusiasm) to make a character.
> EVE is really really different, in almost every way. It's so different
> that if you are looking for something a little different from WoW, you
> might actually want to avoid it. Try EVE, not if you want something a
> *little* different, but something COMPLETELY different.
>
EVE (which I've never played) reminds me a bit of the old Traveller RPG.
Fascinating concept, but with such a steep learning curve that many people
could not get into it.
> Warhammer Online gets a lot of abuse, some of it deserved, but it can
> be a ton of fun, too. To get the best experience of it, you need to
> realize that it's really all about the Tier 4 war for control of the
> fotresses and the capitol cities. When you start out, it can fool you.
> It looks enough like WoW that you can maybe think it's a similar game,
> but it's not, really.
Unfortunately, they tried to position themselves as a WoW alternative, and
I think it largely sunk them. I found the game dreary and unsatisfying,
and thus never actually got far enough in the game to see the stuff
everyone was claiming was so amazing. (Also, their customer service was
appalling, but that's a seperate rant which I made at the time and
shouldn't bother to revisit.)
> I guess Aion is doing really well and gaining lots of subscribers. I
> can't for the life of me figure out why. I'm not going to say anything
> about it; if it' succeeding that well in the marketplace, then my
> impression of it must just be due to some quirk of my personality,
> because clearly, thousands or millions of people find something to
> like about it. I'll be damned if I know what. But maybe you're more
> normal than I am, and should check it out.
>
I was in Fry's over the weekend, and saw that Aion was already on the
clearance rack. However popular it may be in Asia, it doesn't seem to be
getting *real* traction in the US market.
> Fallen Earth is getting some good notices from one of the larger
> guilds I play with. I haven't been playing it, but some of my guildies
> are liking it. Post-apocalypse, guns and jeeps and motorcycles,
> fighting mutants and bandits and stuff in a sort of dark, sand-blown-
> in-your-face, watch out for the cannibal mutants kind of world.
>
Hrm. That could be fun, actually. But I loved Gamma World back in the
day, too.
> And there are others, of course. Probably some of the others are great
> options, too. Good luck.
What, no Age of Conan capsule review? *grin*
One interesting thing about MMOs is that no matter how badly they fare,
they almost never actually die. There are still people playing EverQuest
and Dark Age of Camelot, last I checked. (Of course, there are still
people playing the MUD I was helping run since 1992. Really.)
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2011: Jan 7-9, 2011 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Jamie Kahn Genet
[snip]
> One interesting thing about MMOs is that no matter how badly they fare,
> they almost never actually die. There are still people playing EverQuest
> and Dark Age of Camelot, last I checked. (Of course, there are still
> people playing the MUD I was helping run since 1992. Really.)
Which MUD was that, Rob?
BTW - you guys might be interested in this podcast I found a while back.
No new episodes for a while, but as it's retrospectives about old online
games that hardly matters. It's great stuff:
<http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=262516
821>
Rob Wynne
> Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>> One interesting thing about MMOs is that no matter how badly they fare,
>> they almost never actually die. There are still people playing EverQuest
>> and Dark Age of Camelot, last I checked. (Of course, there are still
>> people playing the MUD I was helping run since 1992. Really.)
>
> Which MUD was that, Rob?
>
JediMUD. It's a DIKU derivative based on the Sequent II codebase, and
started up back in 1992. It's still running at jedimud.com 4000.
> BTW - you guys might be interested in this podcast I found a while back.
> No new episodes for a while, but as it's retrospectives about old online
> games that hardly matters. It's great stuff:
> <http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=262516
> 821>
I'll have to look for that! Sounds like fun.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >> One interesting thing about MMOs is that no matter how badly they fare,
> >> they almost never actually die. There are still people playing EverQuest
> >> and Dark Age of Camelot, last I checked. (Of course, there are still
> >> people playing the MUD I was helping run since 1992. Really.)
> >
> > Which MUD was that, Rob?
> >
>
> JediMUD. It's a DIKU derivative based on the Sequent II codebase, and
> started up back in 1992. It's still running at jedimud.com 4000.
Nifty! I still say our imagination has the best graphics of them all.
That's why MUDs and desktop D&D type games won't die :-) Even text
adventures like Zork, Planetfall and A Mind Forever Voyaging have been
ported to the iPhone and even much simpler not-so-smart phones, not to
mention every desktop computer in the universe.
> > BTW - you guys might be interested in this podcast I found a while back.
> > No new episodes for a while, but as it's retrospectives about old online
> > games that hardly matters. It's great stuff:
> > <http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=262516
> > 821>
>
> I'll have to look for that! Sounds like fun.
Do that! I really hope they make more eventually. I was loving the look
back at online gaming.
notsmart
"Jamie Kahn Genet" <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote in message
news:1jcqasp.1pmgn7912msaiiN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz...
Is UO still around? I played for a year when it first came out. No one
anticipated how truly evil and crappy people would be to each other when
anonymous online. I played again for a only a few months about two years
ago and found it to be more of a chat group of established players than
questing and killing. Anyone have a recent experience with it?
Peter Knutsen
> Nifty! I still say our imagination has the best graphics of them all.
> That's why MUDs and desktop D&D type games won't die :-) Even text
> adventures like Zork, Planetfall and A Mind Forever Voyaging have been
> ported to the iPhone and even much simpler not-so-smart phones, not to
> mention every desktop computer in the universe.
I get lost *real* fast if trying to move around in a text MUD or text
adventure enviroment. Come to think of it, I also got lost easily while
briefly trying to play Ultima Online on a private server. Moving around
in 3D in WoW is very easy, though. (EVE Online isn't relevant here,
since navigation and movement is mostly automated; one can't get lost
even deliberately.)
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Jamie Kahn Genet
I went back like a year ago. The shards were ghost towns and I realised
just how bad UO's UI is today - ugg, a backpack were everything's just
jumbled together. Also a group chat (I think it was) part was 100%
broken. Very unimpressive.
That said, the excellent gameplay is still there... if you can find
anyone to play with.
Insane Ranter
wrote:
> notsmart <notsm...@aol.com> wrote:
> > "Jamie Kahn Genet" <jami...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote in message
> >news:1jcqasp.1pmgn7912msaiiN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz...
> > > Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
>
I often wonder how UO would do in say a warcraft type graphics
Jamie Kahn Genet
> On Jan 22, 7:48 pm, jami...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
> wrote:
> > notsmart <notsm...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > "Jamie Kahn Genet" <jami...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote in message
> > >news:1jcqasp.1pmgn7912msaiiN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz...
> > > > Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
[snip]
> > > Is UO still around? I played for a year when it first came out. No one
> > > anticipated how truly evil and crappy people would be to each other when
> > > anonymous online. I played again for a only a few months about two years
> > > ago and found it to be more of a chat group of established players than
> > > questing and killing. Anyone have a recent experience with it?
> >
> > I went back like a year ago. The shards were ghost towns and I realised
> > just how bad UO's UI is today - ugg, a backpack were everything's just
> > jumbled together. Also a group chat (I think it was) part was 100%
> > broken. Very unimpressive.
> >
> > That said, the excellent gameplay is still there... if you can find
> > anyone to play with.
>
> I often wonder how UO would do in say a warcraft type graphics
Badly without a WoW-type UI as well. With both I reckon it would do very
well.
notsmart
Sad. I miss the game... or just miss my memories of it being my first MMO.
The fear of the unknown, the giant world (well, it seemed gigantic then). I
don't think any MMO can duplicate that feel, just because it was my first.
Now I jump into any online game and run around everywhere, knowing if I die,
I will be back in a few seconds. Then I wasn't sure what would happen.
Sigh, I wish I could recoup that first hit of the proverbial MMO crack pipe.
That is what I miss, not the game really.
Rob Wynne
> Sad. I miss the game... or just miss my memories of it being my first MMO.
> The fear of the unknown, the giant world (well, it seemed gigantic then). I
> don't think any MMO can duplicate that feel, just because it was my first.
> Now I jump into any online game and run around everywhere, knowing if I die,
> I will be back in a few seconds. Then I wasn't sure what would happen.
> Sigh, I wish I could recoup that first hit of the proverbial MMO crack pipe.
> That is what I miss, not the game really.
>
Oh, definately. And that's going to be a different game for everyone.
Heck, I still remember how completely blown away I was by Doom. The whole
game was just *dripping* with atmosphere.
There's a lot of games that just open your eyes to a whole new kind of
gaming. It's a one time hit, and it's a different hit for everyone.
Sooner or later, though, we'll get another hit. But we don't know when,
and we won't expect it until it happens.
PV
>I was in Fry's over the weekend, and saw that Aion was already on the
>clearance rack. However popular it may be in Asia, it doesn't seem to be
>getting *real* traction in the US market.
Yep. Early on (the first 10 levels or so), it plays a lot like WoW, and has
fun quests and interesting stuff to do. Soon after that, you discover that
it becomes difficult to progress on your own, quests start to slack off,
and eventually it becomes a full grind in all its horror.
There's a certainly class of player who finds grinds worth doing (said
people are recognized when they say "I like to WORK for my rewards"), but
(thankfully) not many of them live in the US, and aion is doing the same
kind of die-off as age of conan did last year, with people not playing past
their free (I mean included) month, and legions quickly becoming ghost
towns.
I'm thankful that I got my fill of it during several long free trials - I
played to level 14 and realized that as pretty as it was, it wasn't any fun
anymore, even with a group. Building a character was fun, and I'd love to
have that level of customization in WoW, but that's not enough to make you
stick with a game.
Apparently NCSoft doesn't care - they're simply using the US as a cash cow
for retail sales, and they're in the process of making another very similar
game.
>One interesting thing about MMOs is that no matter how badly they fare,
>they almost never actually die. There are still people playing EverQuest
>and Dark Age of Camelot, last I checked. (Of course, there are still
>people playing the MUD I was helping run since 1992. Really.)
They may not die, but they stagnate. There's a certain class of gamer who
likes that too (recognized by their apopleptic screams every time something
as trivial as a spell effect icon changes), so they follow the long tail. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> notsmart <nots...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Sad. I miss the game... or just miss my memories of it being my first MMO.
> > The fear of the unknown, the giant world (well, it seemed gigantic then). I
> > don't think any MMO can duplicate that feel, just because it was my first.
> > Now I jump into any online game and run around everywhere, knowing if I die,
> > I will be back in a few seconds. Then I wasn't sure what would happen.
> > Sigh, I wish I could recoup that first hit of the proverbial MMO crack pipe.
> > That is what I miss, not the game really.
> >
>
> Oh, definately. And that's going to be a different game for everyone.
> Heck, I still remember how completely blown away I was by Doom. The whole
> game was just *dripping* with atmosphere.
>
> There's a lot of games that just open your eyes to a whole new kind of
> gaming. It's a one time hit, and it's a different hit for everyone.
>
> Sooner or later, though, we'll get another hit. But we don't know when,
> and we won't expect it until it happens.
Happens more rarely nowadays, but that's to be expected given videogames
are an established medium now. But I'll never forget playing SMB on a
NES for the first time, or the first time I played Chrono Trigger on the
SNES. Nor the first day I got my GameBoy, or played Oregon Trail on the
School's Apple IIe! Later playing Marathon on the Mac opened my eyes to
FPSers! What an atmospheric game that was!
My first really amazing online experience was Diablo 1 before the
cheating ruined it and D2 arrived. That was incrediable! Four of us
running around dungeons, co-operating to kill monsters and trying not to
stand in each other's spells :-D
Lancelet
news:1jcxb7h.cggv7nk3wbi6N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz:
>
> My first really amazing online experience was Diablo 1 [...]. That was
> incrediable!
Nice one ! ;)
Jamie Kahn Genet
Huh? :-)
Lancelet
> Lancelet <lancele...@merci.invalid> wrote:
>
>> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in
>> news:1jcxb7h.cggv7nk3wbi6N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz:
>>
>> >
>> > My first really amazing online experience was Diablo 1 [...]. That was
>> > incrediable!
^^^^^^
>> Nice one ! ;)
>
> Huh? :-)
This one.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in
> news:1jd09aa.oohr0xldfd4wN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz:
>
> > Lancelet <lancele...@merci.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in
> >> news:1jcxb7h.cggv7nk3wbi6N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > My first really amazing online experience was Diablo 1 [...]. That was
> >> > incrediable!
> ^^^^^^
>
> >> Nice one ! ;)
> >
> > Huh? :-)
>
> This one.
Oh, opps :-D
James Of Tucson
wrote:
> Nifty! I still say our imagination has the best graphics of them all.
Nethack and certain other roguelike games still sit on top of the
heap, for this reason alone.
Nethack is downright *evil* to the player, and if the player has a
sick and twisted imagination,
the horror stories that play out in the character graphics are far
beyond anything that can be
represented in any kind of computer graphics.
Where WoW has at least an opportunity to be dark and twisted, it drops
the ball. I'm thinking of CoT:CoS.
Arthas is such a goofball. The subject matter of that scenario is
quite disturbing and could have been
portrayed better, although if it has been depicted the way *I* imagine
the story of the pogrom, it would probably
have been impossible to market in the USA.