Is there any video game out there where one's moral alignment determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of the game world?
drel...@gmail.com
determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of
the game world?
I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
Happy turkeyday everyone.
Inspired by a Mass Effect conversation:
http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=600077&forum=104
Can you win as either a Paragon or Renegade?
rangermccoy
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 06:19PM
Can you beat the game as either a Paragon or Renegade?
Does the Paragon finish ahead, or does the Renegade finish ahead?
Which one is easier to win with?
What are the similarities/differences?
Thanks!
Edited By rangermccoy on 11/22/07 18:19
Pileyourbodies
Game Owner
Mass Effect
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 06:22PM
you can win as either one...i wouldn't say either come out ahead.
zombie flayer
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Mass Effect
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 06:26PM
Of course you can beat it with either one.
The difference is paragons can charm people in conversation while
renegades use intimidation to achieve the same result.
Each has their own subplots that can be done as well.
_________________
Its been no surprise the way you speak those lies, reassuring me,
convincing me that I'm somebody too but I'm not.
rangermccoy
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 06:47PM
Is there ultimately any difference in the overall world depending on
whether one plays as a renegade or a paragon?
For that matter, is there any video game out there where one's moral
alignment determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the
ultimate state of the game world?
Sigma Hyperion
Game Owner
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
From: The Verge Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 07:01PM
Nope.
That's kind of an important distinction between "Paragon/Renegade" and
more traditional "Good/Evil".
By definition both Paragon and Renegade acheieve the exact same
ultimate goal. The only difference is the method in which you go about
it. In the end, the universe will be the same and, though your actions
to acheieve it will certainly be different, your kindness/ruthlessness
won't be on a galactic enough scale to actually impact the entire
galaxy. The end overshadows the means.
Edited By Sigma Hyperion on 11/22/07 19:01
rangermccoy
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 07:07PM
Thanks!
But is there any video game out there where one's moral alignment
determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of
the game world?
I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
Happy turkeyday everyone.
RKRM
<drel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:adfc6f82-4903-4048...@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> Is there any video game out there where one's moral alignment
> determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of
> the game world?
>
> I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
KOTOR
drel...@gmail.com
reference, but I'm not sure KOTOR
qualifies:
Even if you're evil in KOTOR
, can't you still "win?" or beat the game?
Does it really matter to the world at large?
http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_archive.html says,
"When last year Edward Castronova argued on Terra Nova that Horde
characters in World of Warcraft are evil, he was widely ridiculed.
There is no "evil" in World of Warcraft, players of either faction are
constantly on quests that are helping somebody else. Whether you are a
holy paladin or a demon-summoning warlock, it doesn't change the way
in which you help the farmer get the deed to his farm back from the
evil bandits. There is no moral choice, no option to sell the deed to
the highest bidder instead of returning it for a lousy reward. Even
the undead are "good" undead, fighting the evil scourge undead.
If a game like Black & White, or Knights of the Old Republic, or
Fable, gives you the option to play good or evil, that is just a
thinly disguised way to enable you to play the game twice. You chose
evil or good by what you think is more useful to beat the game, and
then if you play it again, you chose the other side, just to see
something new. It is not a moral choice, but a tactical one. We don't
feel that burning down a virtual village in a game world and killing
the inhabitants is an evil act, after all those are just colored
pixels that don't feel anything. Advancing in the game is the most
important, even that means that in the next mission we have to throw
Napalm on that Vietnamese village to continue.
All that ends us in a total inability between gamers and anti-game
advocates or politicians to understand each other. The gamer picks up
minor points that the criticism got wrong, like "there are no points
in GTA for shooting and raping hookers", and fails to see that the
criticism otherwise wasn't all that unjustified. Most of what you do
in GTA *is* a depiction of very, very evil behavior. By the time you
finished the game you have committed more crimes than any known peace-
time gangster. The anti-gamer fails to see that all these crimes are
virtual, and don't lead to you going out and doing the same in real
life.
"Evil" has become a joke. In Dragon Quest 8 one of the heroes has a
special combat move with whirling axes, called "Axes of Evil", har,
har, nice joke on George Bush. But I wonder if all this making light
of evil, all this gaming without true moral choices, is not making the
medium of video games poorer. Fact is that in the real world there is
real evil, guys like Sadam Hussein, Kim Jong-il, or Robert Mugabe
aren't just "misunderstood". And evil isn't limited to crazy
dictators, there are people everywhere that like to be cruel to
others. And ordinary people have to make hard moral choices sometimes,
between good and evil. Previous entertainment media understood that,
and made good and evil a major recurring theme in many books and
movies. Only video games present the end of evil, a world in which
neither good nor evil matters, where "evil" is just a thin plot
element to explain why you as the hero have to go out and kill that
boss. We end up with players in online games doing evil things that
actually hurt real people, if just in a minor way, and not even
realizing the difference. GTA won't turn anybody into a mass murderer,
but it is hard to believe that hundreds of hours of inconsequential
evil and violence should have no effect whatsoever on how you perceive
evil and violence in the real world.
"
--from: http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_archive.html
On Nov 22, 1:51 pm, "RKRM" <r...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
> <drell...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:adfc6f82-4903-4048...@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Is there anyvideogame out there where one's moral alignment
> > determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of
> > the game world?
>
> > I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
>
> KOTOR
>
>
>
>
>
> > Happy turkeyday everyone.
>
> > Inspired by a Mass Effect conversation:
>
> >http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=600077&foru...
> > For that matter, is there anyvideogame out there where one's moral
> > alignment determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the
> > ultimate state of the game world?
>
> > Sigma Hyperion
> > Game Owner
> > Mass Effect
>
> > Joined: 13 Nov 2007
> > From: The Verge Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 07:01PM
> > Nope.
>
> > That's kind of an important distinction between "Paragon/Renegade" and
> > more traditional "Good/Evil".
>
> > By definition both Paragon and Renegade acheieve the exact same
> > ultimate goal. The only difference is the method in which you go about
> > it. In the end, the universe will be the same and, though your actions
> > to acheieve it will certainly be different, your kindness/ruthlessness
> > won't be on a galactic enough scale to actually impact the entire
> > galaxy. The end overshadows the means.
> > Edited By Sigma Hyperion on 11/22/07 19:01
>
> > rangermccoy
>
> > Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posted: Thursday, 22 November 2007 07:07PM
> > Thanks!
>
> > But is there anyvideogame out there where one's moral alignment
> > determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of
> > the game world?
>
> > I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
>
> > Happy turkeyday everyone.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
RKRM
<drel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:248166a9-9a97-48cb...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the KOTOR
> reference, but I'm not sure KOTOR
> qualifies:
>
> Even if you're evil in KOTOR
> , can't you still "win?" or beat the game?
>
> Does it really matter to the world at large?
Yes. You get a completely different ending Good Vs. Evil.
range...@gmail.com
route in KOTOR?
On Nov 22, 7:07 pm, "RKRM" <r...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
> <drell...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > medium ofvideogamespoorer. Fact is that in the real world there is
> > real evil, guys like Sadam Hussein, Kim Jong-il, or Robert Mugabe
> > aren't just "misunderstood". And evil isn't limited to crazy
> > dictators, there are people everywhere that like to be cruel to
> > others. And ordinary people have to make hard moral choices sometimes,
> > between good and evil. Previous entertainment media understood that,
> > and made good and evil a major recurring theme in many books and
> > movies. Onlyvideogamespresent the end of evil, a world in which
> > neither good nor evil matters, where "evil" is just a thin plot
> > element to explain why you as the hero have to go out and kill that
> > boss. We end up with players in onlinegamesdoing evil things that
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
RKRM
<range...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6c4217a8-7973-4f2b...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> What are the completely different endings the "good" and the "evil"
> route in KOTOR?
IIRC (it's been awhile) If you're the bad dude everyone is screwed at the
end. If you're good everyone is saved. Basically. People react to you
differently as well based on your level of bad-assedness.
jgarbuz
"RKRM" <rk...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:0YmdnQKZPrJ1ZNja...@comcast.com...
>
> <drel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:adfc6f82-4903-4048...@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> > Is there any video game out there where one's moral alignment
> > determines the ultimate outcome of the game, and the ultimate state of
> > the game world?
> >
> > I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
>
> KOTOR<
Knights of th Old Republic (KOTOR) is one. Another older game is Deus Ex:
Invisible Wars. A classic that in its time got a 9.1.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
45heros...@gmail.com
> "RKRM" <r...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:0YmdnQKZPrJ1ZNja...@comcast.com...
>
>
>
> > <drell...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:adfc6f82-4903-4048...@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> > > Is there any video game out there where one'smoralalignment
> > > the game world?
>
> > > I can't come up with one... but perhaps there is . . .
>
> > KOTOR<
>
> Knights of th Old Republic (KOTOR) is one. Another older game is Deus Ex:
> Invisible Wars. A classic that in its time got a 9.1.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
Thanks for the KOTOR
reference, but I'm not sure KOTOR
qualifies:
Even if you're evil in KOTOR
, can't you still "win?" or beat the game?
Does it really matter to the world at large?
http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_archive.html says,
medium of video games poorer. Fact is that in the real world there is
real evil, guys like Sadam Hussein, Kim Jong-il, or Robert Mugabe
aren't just "misunderstood". And evil isn't limited to crazy
dictators, there are people everywhere that like to be cruel to
others. And ordinary people have to make hard moral choices
sometimes,
between good and evil. Previous entertainment media understood that,
and made good and evil a major recurring theme in many books and
movies. Only video games present the end of evil, a world in which
neither good nor evil matters, where "evil" is just a thin plot
element to explain why you as the hero have to go out and kill that
boss. We end up with players in online games doing evil things that
Autumn...@gmail.com
I agree "A game where morality definitively changed the world around
you would be neat, but I'm not sure how much appeal it would have for
the average gamer."
But I think that such a game defines next-generation games.
Is there any game within which the player's morality changes the
world? Where only by behaving in a moral manner can one complete the
game or "win?" And where immorality eventually leads to the downfall
and decline of the game world?
I'd love to play that game, if anyone knows of it.
Rich Billionaire
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
Simone
Simone
<drel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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