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shakespeare physics  
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 More options Oct 29, 11:44 am
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: shakespeare physics <shakespearephys...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Oct 29 2009 11:44 am
Subject: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Gears of
War, GTA, Fallout, Left For Dead, and all RPGs/FPSs With The Gold 45
Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology & Making $$$
$Billions$$$ in the Renaissance
by Dr. Elliot McGucken on 07/30/09 12:29:00 pm
 del.icio.us   digg this!   reddit!   stumble it!

  Posted 07/30/09 12:29:00 pm

Improving/Exalting/Simplifying ASSASSIN'S CREED with The Gold 45
Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:

The game opens in Rome.  From street to street you walk, on by the
Parthenon and Coliseum.  You hear bits and pieces of conversations,
and your task is to infiltrate the communist movement and carry out
missions so as to prove your trustworthiness, as you rise on towards
the top, so you can assassinate the communist leader.

You can see the titles of the books people are carrying/reading in the
cafes, and you can can accept and read the pamphlets they are passing
out.  Sometimes you pick one up after they drop it, while getting up
from their table in the cafe.  You see the Marxist philosophy
expressed, so you subtly follow them and say, "excuse me--I think you
dropped this."  They thank you.  "It's good reading," you choose to
say, and they introduce themselves.  You are standing beneath an
ancient archway inscribed with Virgil's immortal words, and you smile
to yourself, as the words remind you of your true, exalted mission:
"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito."

This would be a brand new form of spy/assassin game, centered about
the player's knowledge regarding various politcial philosophies, which
would guide them in their choices in the dialogue trees, by which they
would either move closer to the top of the communist party, or be
exiled/killed.   Imagine how fun that would be to fool communists en
route to kiling their leader!  Of course any other ideologies/ideas
could be used/woven into the AI/technology, but the novel dynamic
would be the same.

The novel technology would perform best for the most realistic
scenarios acknowledging the fact that freedom's classical ideals have
ever lead to greater peace and propserity than collectivism's.
Imagine pretending to sympathize with the ideologies of the Red Coats/
Scottish Nobles/Sauron/Nazis while infiltrating their ranks to kill
their leader.  And imagine the dire consequences of saying the wrong
thing at the wrong time!

The more convincing you are in the dialogue (dialogue trees such as
Mass Effect, but endowed with the ideas have consequences technology
which deals with different ideologies that have far-ranging
consequences which will be rendered in the game)--the more you respond
and interact like a communist--the faster you move up, and the less
*physical/risky* missions you have to perform to prove your worth to
the communist party.  If you fail to rise to the top and assassinate
the leader, tens of millions will be killed; and freedom and liberty
will be taken from all in the triumphant communist regime.

In various embodiements of the game, there will also be opportunities
to bring communists over to your side by quoting the US Constitution/
Founding Fathers/etc., so as to help you achieve your goals, but watch
out, as it might get you killed!  Best to move slowly and wait for
them to broach the subject of the Constitution and liberty, but watch
out again, as it could be a trap!  Especially coming from a hot woman
you just spent the night with!

Missions may involve you passing out communist pamphlets, defacing the
opposing party's posters/signs signifying liberty, and disseminating
propaganda.  Missions could also involve you having to prove your
worth by killing members of the opposing party--(your party!)--so as
to rise on up, but such actions could result in losing the game, as
you would be living the dervish "ends justify the means" philosopy.

At any rate, all embodiements end with the ideas or ideals--first
heard in words--rendered in deeds.  If you fail to kill the communist
leader, you get to witness tens of millions dying.  If you succeed,
you get to witness liberty and an exalted, prosperous, and free
world.

OMG!  We're surrounded by fanboys!  & we forgot our Gold 45 Revolvers
at home!

Of course different ideologies could be explored/incorporated, and
various game designers would endow game with thier own preferred ideas
and supposed consequences.  But the richest games will be those which
remain close to freedom's spiritual reality; as well as the classic,
epic, common story uniting all those who have fought for exalted
liberty, truth, and freedom.

The games would rely on the player's knowledge/intuition regarding the
various tenets of the ideologies.  Both direct quotes from Marx/Lenin/
Stalin/Mussolini could be used, as well as dialogue containing the
basic themes of communism; as well as quotes/themes from Jefferson/
Hayek/Mises.

Again, this is another subset of novel gaming types afforded by my
research:

 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3143589

SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR CREATING EXALTED VIDEO GAMES AND VIRTUAL
REALITIES WHEREIN IDEAS HAVE CONSEQUENCES

Improving/Exalting/Simplifying MASS EFFECT with The Gold 45 Revolver /
Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:

While Mass Effect does have various endings, the design teams
complicate the game design vastly, leading to far more work, by
neglecting to incorporate simple classical ideals--simple moral
premises, which could influence and unify the AI/algorithms for love
and war as well as the internal and external action.  Aristotle noted
that the internal action--the physical and dramatic action--are united
by a common ideal or moral premise.  In The Matrix and Star Wars, the
moral premise runs straight up the middle--does one selflessy serve
truth and freedom, or does one serve the dark side/Matrix?  The great,
heroic economists of freedom--Mises and Hayek-- also perceived that
economics is a moral quest.   Mass Effect's shortcoming is that it
ultimately doesn't matter if one is good or bad--the moral choices
have nothing to do with aactual morality in our universe wherein ideas
have consequences.

"The Ludwig von Mises' Institute's official motto is Tu ne cede malis
sed contra audentior ito, which comes from Virgil's Aeneid, Book VI;
the motto means "do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly
against it." Early in his life, Mises chose this sentence to be his
guiding principle in life. It is prominently displayed throughout the
Institute's campus, on their website and on memorabilia." --http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute

Now imagine if the character were presented that quote at the
beginning of the game, and then called upon to live up to it.

Again, MASS EFFECT never shows the rendering of classical ideals
real.  For instance,  one is not able to hear Jefferson's, nor
Cicero's, nor Scorates', nor Aristotle's, nor Mises' words; nor is one
able to see them rendered real in the game.  In forming a fellowship,
one is not able to judge characters via their ideals and *character.*
But soon, the game will exalt all this!

Improving/Exalting/Simplifying FALLOUT with The Gold 45 Revolver /
Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:

This was handled towards the bottom here (bottom of the comments):
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20908

Opinion: 'Fallout 3 - I Kill Children'
by Simon Parkin [In a new opinion piece, game producer and journalist
Simon Parkin examines Fallout 3's block on harming children in the
game, suggesting that, even with its obviously good intentions, it has
proved "video games' ineffectiveness in providing meaningful
disincentives and negative repercussions for in-game atrocities".]

Self-censorship was the least effective course of action open to
Bethesda if they are looking to morally instruct their players. Why
not take the route less traveled and try to implement some meaningful
consequence, something beyond an essentially meaningless "karma" stat?
(YES!! THE KARMA IS MEANINGLESS! WHY NOT INCORPORATE A GOLD 45
REVOLVER WHICH ONLY SHOOTS ZEUS'S LIGHTNING IN THE END IF YOU HAVE
BEEN DOING THE RIGHT, MORAL THING THROUGHOUT?)

Of course it is the route less traveled for a reason: it's a whole lot
more work. (NO IT ISN'T! JUST GIVE THE PLAYER A WEAPON WHICH LOSES ITS
POWER THE MORE EVIL THEY BEHAVE! THE PATENT SOLVES THIS PROBLEM IN A
SIMPLE/EFFICIENT MANNER!) The framework of systems and rules that
govern Fallout 3 serve the setting: a place of lawless anarchy. As
such it's difficult to introduce a potent enough disincentive to
murdering children (NO IT ISN'T! JUST GIVE THE PLAYER A WEAPON WHICH
LOSES ITS POWER THE MORE EVIL THEY BEHAVE! THE PATENT SOLVES THIS
PROBLEM IN A SIMPLE/EFFICIENT MANNER! IF YOU SHOT CHILDREN, THE 45
WILL NOT GLOW GOLD & SHOOT ZEUS'S LIGTNING, AND THE MBA FEMMINST
FANBOY VAMPIRES WILL OVERCOME AND KILL YOU IN THE END!!). And, in more
general terms it's hard to make any game talk to a player in true
terms of "good" and "bad," when the medium's primary vocabulary is one
of "success" and "failure." (HUH? KILLING CHILDREN IS BAD! KILL KIDS =
NO GOLD 45 4 U! NO ZEUS LIGHTNING 4 U!)

In real life, if you kill a child, you will be imprisoned and,
depending on where you live, killed for the crime. Not only that but,
insanity aside, there will also be heavy physical, mental and
emotional repercussions to your action, things that will stay with you
throughout the rest of your life.

How can these kinds of severe, complex outputs be communicated in a
video game? (KILL KIDS AND YOU WILL SUFFER A HORRID DEATH FROM THE
SWARMING HORDES OF VAMPIRE/ZOMBIES SCREAMING MBA BUZZWORDS AND THE
FIATACORAY'S CLOGANS!) Do you, as in Steel Battalion, kill the player
and wipe the save game to teach a lesson? Or do you, as in Fable 2,
let the player's evil shape the character's physical appearance,
making them more unpleasant and ugly for it? (GIVE THE PLAYER A WEAPON
WHICH
...

read more »


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Founding Fathers Films  
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 More options Nov 9, 11:41 am
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: Founding Fathers Films <foundingfathersfi...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:41:27 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Nov 9 2009 11:41 am
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
http://forums.narrativedesigners.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27&p=182#p182

EA & EGM: Case Studies in Fail: Reject Epic Narrative = Fail
Basically this article could be applied to the entire industry which
is shedding billions in market cap and thousands of jobs.

Over the past several years, I would pick up major gaming magazines
(EGM/Play/Edge) and turn straight to the letters section--the letters
from the readers/avid gamers.

Invariably, there would be writers stating that they were looking for
games with more exalted narrative, epic story, and meaning.

And the fanboy/fanmba editorial staff would often be both
condescending and dismissive, basically giving them the middle finger
in telling them to shut up and go back to their single-mom's basement
to play Fallout/GTA and shoot cops and hookers and women in metallic
bras, as really, GTA is all about the family, really, and living
morally, with profound ideas that have profound consequences; and
epic, exalted meanings for the greater culture.

And then, a few short months later, after giving the finger to the
reader/consumer/yearner for art and narrative, EGM went under.

CASE STUDY #1: The Epic Failure of Dante's Inferno: The Epic Price of
Ignoring Epic Story and Placing Dante's Beloved, Incorruptible
Beatrice in Hell, and Playing up the Giant Nipples/Vaginas/Baby-
Killing for The Vocal Fanboys

So EA goes and slaps the name Dante's Inferno on a God of War Mod,
basically giving the middle finger to Dante's art, life, love, poetry,
religion, soul, and spirit, casting his beloved, incorruptible
Beatrcie in hell, and recasting Dante the poet and scholar as a buff,
world-wrestling-federation champion. And this is the result--a quickly
forgettable #eafailsuck, generic, been-there-done-that-but-better-the-
first-time-around game:

http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article- ... ferno.html

What can be said for Dante’s Inferno? Well, it is definitely a
complete rip-off of God of War, so it has that going for it. Oh, and
it probably would have been better just to have made the game about a
random crusader diving through the many layers of Hell and claiming
inspiration to the literary classic. Now it just enrages anyone with
an appreciation for those long forgotten “book” things your ancestors
used to read. You know, back when paper was used by everyone and not
just bureaucrats behind the times.

Truth be told the game wasn’t really all that thrilling. In fact, it
was a little bit irritating and just a tad sickening. A number of
buttons can be used for different attacks, yet somehow I always found
myself pulling off the same combo that ended with me stabbing into the
ground with a bone scythe. It felt like the only way to win was to
simply button mash without any real plan in mind. . . .

. . .The combat to Dante’s Inferno isn’t terrible, but it isn’t great
either. It’s just another action game trying to be God of War. The
story may be good if you could care less about the literary origins.
The artwork goes from being generic to outright disturbing and
disgusting. EA can use as much controversial marketing tactics as they
wish, but there is a very small audience for this game. It will have
its fans, most certainly, but weeks after this game has been released
it will become forgotten.

Thank God.--http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article-2169-HandsOn-with-
Dantes-Inferno.html

All those hours, upon hours wasted in debauching art and losing EA's
investor's cash. All those hours, upon hours spent ignoring the story
and focusing on mere, fleeting marketing gimmicks, placing Aristotle's
spectacle first and his story dead last, thusly inverting the order of
Aristotle's Poetics, and harassing booth babes:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DrElliot ... w_Gold.php

I reached out to Jonathan Knight regarding how the Gold 45 Revolver /
Ideas Have Consequences / Moral Premise technologies could exalt not
only Dante's Inferno, but his entire company, but he was pre-dedicated
to debauching Dante's Divine Work, ignoring the fundamental precepts
of the divine, epic narrative, and losing market cap.

And that's where the epic advantage lies. In all their epic EA
arrogance they are forgetting that which matters most in art--the soul
and spirit, and thus story.

CASE STUDY # 2: EGM MAGAZINE'S FAIL

What an opportunity EGM had! When they received letters from readers
demanding profundity, poetry, and epic meaning in their games, they
could have run with it! They could have become the flagship
publication of the renaissance, while rallying game companies and
developers who exalted epic narrative in their games, carving out a
vast new market for games! If only!

But instead, because EGM magazine gave the exalted consumer the middle
finger, they are now defunct. EA's fanboyish/fanmbaish Dante's Inferno
is taking EA down the same EGM road to financial hell, giant vaginas,
nipples, and babby killing all. But that's what you get for placing
Beatrice in Hell.

I predicted this in my patent application, citing EGM's flippant,
arrogant, fanboyish response to an honest gamer seeking exaltation,
story, enlightenment in their games. What did they do? EGM told him to
shut up and go back to his mom's basement and play GTA.

FROM: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0017886.html

PRIOR ART AND ADVANTAGES OF PRESENT INVENTION
There is a vast demand for deeper, more intellectual video games that
is generally opposed throughout the industry. Many designers are weak
minded like the Storm Troopers in Star Wars, and thus they believe
hiring and killing prostitutes constitutes exalted story, as the
fiatocracy's Death Star commands them to believe. Many will defend
their hiring and killing prostitutes by the fact that one doesn't have
to in the open-ended world, but then it GTA is not truly an open-ended
world wherein one cannot take a prostitute to church, nor even speak
words of exalted wisdom to her that might save her soul, nor give her
a copy of Dante's Inferno nor Homer's Odyssey to exalt her soul. While
developers, publishers, and insiders constantly hype the storytelling
in games so as to sound cool and push product for mere monetary
profit, the young can see that the emperor is wearing no clothes. In
EGM's letter of the month, a reader expresses the rising generation's
demand by writing:

EGM Letter of The Month:

“As I grew up, videogames grew up with me. I started playing games
like Donkey Kong and Carnival on the ColecoVision before I could read,
and Nintendo's Mario title were a staple of my early childhood. As I
got older, I saw the storytlines and gameplay mechanics become more
intricate and engaging. When I went through my rebellious and bitchy
teenage years, so did videogames. And as I grew and matured, so did
the subject matter of the games themselves.

Now that I'm 22, more things are vying for my time and attention such
as work, college, women, drinking, and lamenting over my long-gone and
simpler childhood. Needless to say, if I'm going to devote 20-plus
hours of my life to completing a game, it had better be well worth it.
And to me personally, a game well worth it is one I can take something
away from on an intellectual level. For example, a game that makes me
question my own existence, or the war in Iraq, or the increasing
diconnectedness of our modern high-tech lives would be the holy grail
of gaming to me. What are the chances that gaming will finally grow
once more and develop a social and political conscience?—Eric
Staskiewicz, summer, 2008 EGM

EGM answers “The answers are pretty damn good. Games are more and more
frequently making “statements” about society and politics—see
BioShock, GTA4, even Army of Two for just a few examples. We'll always
have mindless diversions as well, of course, but count on seeing more
and more depth of theme and storytelling in the coming years.”—Summer,
2008

And so it is that jacking cars, shooting police and the innocent, and
hiring and killing prostitutes is now not only exalted art, but
sublime political science and sociology. The younger generation is
seeking exaltation and enlightenment in their video games, and the
response is a) it is already pretty damn good so shut up and b)
mindless diversions rock and c) it will get even better than hiring
and killing prostitutes. It is quite obvious from the above letter,
that the demand for video games with exalted principles is not being
served. Fanboys do not believe in the “word,” and thus they poke
around in their cave, grunting and smiling when the prostitute dies
after they are done with her, enjoying their “art.”

Such novel games will stand head and shoulders above the prior and
current art, including GTA, GOW, and Fallout 3, about which Kotaku
reports: Cannabalism, Slavery and Sex in Fallout 3—http://kotaku.com/
5022866/cannabalism-slavery-and-sex-in -fallout-3. An interview with
one of Fallout3's lead designers goes as follows http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39736
... Screenshot s-Interview:

“1) Which of the following, if any, will be featured in Fallout3;
Romance, Sex, Homosexuality, Nudity, Prostitution, Slavery,
Cannibalism, Children, Child killings, drugs, addictions? And of the
things that won't be featured, can you explain why they won't be
included in the game?
“It touches on most of those. Slavery, children, drugs and addiction
more than the others, as those factor for into the setting more. In
regards to nudity and child killings, no, it features neither of
those, as they don't really add to the flavor of the game (I'll get
into children in the next question more). I think if you look at
Fallout 1, and the footprint it has with the topics you ask about,
Fallout 3 is pretty much the same, in that it features the types of
things you mention at about the same rate, no more, no less. Drugs and
drug addiction play a larger role perhaps, as it's a key gameplay
device. I think the heart of this question is “has the harshness and
maturity of the
...

read more »


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Founding Fathers Films  
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 More options Nov 9, 11:44 am
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: Founding Fathers Films <foundingfathersfi...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:44:41 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Nov 9 2009 11:44 am
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
 Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:09 am by gold45revolver
Why Are Game Developers Anti-Story/Anti-Aristotle?
While letters to major gaming magazines routinely express wishes for
more story, substance, depth, character, and meaning in games, lead
designers in the money-losing, jobs-killing, aging industry arrogantly
dimiss story and classic, epic meaning, soul, and poetry, time and
again exalting GTA IV as the end-all, be-all of storytelling and
dramatic art in the realm of interactive gaming.

Everywhere one turns, one sees, "The death of the author!" "The death
of story!"

"The death of the author!" "The death of story!" They shout as they
bring down the classical soul and spirit, while shooting more hookers
and innocent cops and civilians, and then campaigning against those
who suggest games are capable of exalted dramatic art, if we only
created them to serve the customer deman, instead of the fanmba's
massive money-losing, jobs-killing, inovation-averse ego.

They basically give the customer (who is yearning for story and
epic,exalted art) the finger, and then they wonder why their market
caps are shedding billions and their culture is declining.

Check out this article and contrast the sanrky, arrogant, story-
dismissing tone of the article to the engaged, enlightened, story-
exalting tone of the responses:

http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/death-of-the-author

As you can see, vast opportunities exist to serve the maturing
customer, who is not being served!

Instead of serving the demand for meaning, profundity, character,
depth, and story, the industry is instead saying, "OMG! LOL! The
author is dead! Bang bang bang! Just like in GTA we can kill innocent
civilians, and in fallout 3 we can shoot women in metallic bras, we
can kill story in real life! Bang! Bang! LOLZ! ROTFL! Shoot them giant
walls of text! LOL! All your giant walls of text are belong to us!"

Well, the responses to the article are redeeming and inspiring!

http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/death-of-the-author
"On October 8th elguachojkis said:
Totally agree with _Sylvain... the opinions expressed in this article
are truly worrying!
I hope these two people read your 'lack of substance abuse' blog
entry... actually I feel like (for my own gamer sake) mailing it to
all the shmucks out there "writing" video games that think movies from
the 30's are radically different from movies made now, just because
the editing is faster and the shots are shorter!
Experiences are NOT Stories!"

On October 7th Raul23 said:
Aside from Ragnar, these guys clearly don't care about storytelling or
being an author because they have nothing to say, not that there's
anything not wrong with that.

Login or register to post comments
On October 7th michael_sylvain said:
I found this article infuriating, and it made me into the equivalent
of an old woman shouting at a news programme as if in some way I'd be
heard. Somebody needed to question the opinions rather than asking for
more. Because there's so much stuff here that doesn't make sense, and
seems substanceless in practice - big claims without real logic.

Anyway, assuming you've read this because you're interested in the way
narrative and gaming goes together (or fails to) here's a longer and
slightly too wordy response I wrote to try and explain why this piece
was so frustrating: http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/lack-substance-abuse

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/edi ... ory-Part-I

I have noted in the MMO industry (as well as films and, to a lesser
extent in fantasy literature) a decline in the quality of
storytelling. It seems that designers are generally more eager to make
an easy-money sequel rather than create something new that is truly
powerful. I suppose the good news is that games seem to pull it off
better sequels than movies, yet this doesn't avoid a stagnation of
creativity. The same old thing gets regurgitated again and again.

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/edi ... ory-Part-I

http://www.destructoid.com/nothing-is-s ... 2013.phtml

Well, all that this means is that vast, billion-dollar opportunities
exist to break out the Jospeh Campbell and Aristotle and Homer, and
rock some rockin' games with depth, character, meaning, and
profundity, while exalting the gold 45 revolver technologies!

I've got nothing against GTA and Fallout 3--rather the corporate-
fanMBAs hate story, narrative, and exalted dramatic art. They are
holding the industry back, creating opportunities for narrative
designers.Top Report this postReply with quoteEdit post

 Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:16 pm by gold45revolver
Re: Why Are Game Developers Anti-Story/Anti-Aristotle?

maldal wrote:

I'm wondering if we read the same article here, Doc. I thought the
article was fascinating stuff, but for the life of me, couldn't
remember the name of it, so thanks for the link.

The first question on the second page of the interview really is the
crux of the discussion:

In terms of meshing these narratives together with the gameplay, what
can be done? What’s failing at the moment and how can that change?

The discussion the three designers have regarding this is really at
the center of the Narrative vs. Gameplay Discussion, and even amongst
these industry professionals, have very different opinions on the role
of Narrative and Story in games.

There is the desire to have more water-cooler moments, that is, a
player-generated story within the rough confines of the existing
universe, where - specifically - they used Left 4 Dead as an example.
Yes, there is a really rough story that is fleshed out by how the
players proceed through the game world. The narrative, then, is based
less on classical structure and more on emergent gameplay. The story
changes each time the players proceed through the game - sometimes,
they survive, others, the zombies overwhelm them. That's a very
powerful difference between other story-based entertainment (Drama,
Literature and Film) where they finish .

That isn't a bad thing, conversely, the story of Half Life and Half
Life 2 is the Monomyth writ large. Excellent stories, to be sure, and
also very directed.

The quote from Ragnar Torquest, who worked on Dreamfall, one of the
great Story-based adventure games, said it best at the end of the page
with:

I think what games can do really, really well is to create a world
where there is a story but only if you look for it. Then you’re being
told the story you want to be told and not the one we want. I think
that’s the great potential of games.

That sentiment has been shared here before, and I agree.

Using GTA IV as sole examples of narrative in games is disingenuous,
and even in this article, they don't particularly care for the
narrative or story of GTA IV. As Hocking said:

I actually stopped playing it (GTA IV) after about five or six hours
because I didn’t want to pay attention to what was going on with the
characters and the authored narrative.

Chet's pretty critical of GTA IV above that, even though he enjoyed
the story when he said:

I got interested in your choices there (in GTA IV) – who you got to
hang out with. The storyline kind of opposed the goofy gameplay, so
there was a point where I just kind of got aggravated with it and
wouldn’t have minded just being able to watch the cutscenes.

What I got out of the exchange about GTA IV was how the tone and style
of gameplay provided to the player was very different from the tone
and style of the story as it was delivered to the player. For a game
that is about giving players choice, it's hard to take Niko's remorse
over becoming a murderous monster in Serbia seriously when you spend
hours indiscriminately BEING a monster. You're forcing an emotional
connection on the player that is contrary to the gameplay freedom that
is given to the player.

Thanks for the enlightened & well-reasoned response Steve.

Overall I think there are huge opportunities for narrative designers
and people such as yourself and the visionaries behind this board in
tomorrow's industry--opportnuities to build better, deeper, more
engaging games.

Best,

Dr. E

Hey there Steve,

The important thing to note is that Aristotle ranked the story
elements in "order of importance," and it seems that videogames often
reverse this, placing spectacle first and story last. Story is the
soul of the work, and the soul alone is immortal, and thus all
enduring franchises must exalt story.

From: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090017886

[0103]The remainder of the list of titles, spanning every aspect of
the "rotten barrel" of cultural decline; from business, to marriage,
to government, to entertainment, would consume the entire length of
this paper. Aristotle said, "When storytelling declines, the result is
decadence," and is it any wonder that when the classics are removed
from education, the world is impoverished? Video games lack epic story
and soul as films invert Aristotle's Poetics, placing spectacle first
and character and plot last; and as Oscar Wilde reminds us, "life
imitates art." Well, this present invention would place plot and
character first, and spectacle last in video games, countering common
fanboy opinion. The dumbing down knows no bounds, and the present
invention would foster video games that allowed players to argue and
reason with professors, in word and deed: [0104]Our society and our
literature and our culture are being dumbed down, and the causes are
very complex. I'm 73 years old. In a lifetime of teaching English,
I've seen the study of literature debased. There's very little
authentic study of the humanities remaining.--Harold Bloom, Dumbing
Down American Readers, LA Times, Sep. 24, 2003

[0105]Screenwriting teacher Robert McKee quotes the great poet Yeats,
in describing the postmodernized Hollywood. [0106]Flawed and forced
storytelling is forced to substitute spectacle for substance, trickery
for truth. Weak stories, desperate to hold audience attention,
degenerate into multimillion-dollar razzle-dazzle demo
...

read more »


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 More options Nov 10, 3:23 pm
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: dre <drell...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 10 2009 3:23 pm
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
    As I begin preproduction on a pretty narrative-based game, I find
myself referring to Steve Gaynor's quote:

    [url]Video games are not a traditional storytelling medium per se.
The player is an agent of chaos, making the medium ill-equipped to
convey a pre-authored narrative with anywhere near the effectiveness
of books or film.[/url]

Yes--such philosophies have held games back.

In real life, we are all agents of chaos.

And yet, epic, exalted stories emerge time and again in real life,
because of life's moral premises and epic mythological reality, which
are strangely absent from games. Truth is stranger than fiction!

Think about the true story of King Leonidas and his 300 Spartans
battling for epic idealism and freedom.

Think about Sir William Wallace battling for freedom and epic
idealism.

Think about the Founding Fathers writing for and then battling for
epic freedom--rendering classical ideals real in both word and deed.

In all the above cases; epic, classical story emerged alongside
romance and profound meaning. Narratives far greater and more engaging
than those found in GTA/bioshock/Fallout naturally emerged, and became
legends as they were told over and over.

The stories today's fanboys tell are, "I killed a hooker lolz! and
then pwn3d giant vaginas and nipples in dante's inferno ! lolz!! epic
narrative sux and boox r giant walls of t3xt!" And then the fanbmas
tell tragic stories of massive layoffs and the closure of EGM which
gave that vast contingent seeking epic story the middle finger.

300/William Wallace/the Founding Fathers were united by the same
classical, epic, exalted ideals of freedom; which are nowhere to be
found in the fanboys/fanmbas favorite games--Fallout & GTA3.

By introducing classical ideals (the gold 45 revolver(TM)/ideas have
consequences/moral premise technologies) into the center and
circumference of the game's AI, novel forms of gaming will exalt the
industry with billions of dollars in revenue.

As games get more and more graphically realistic, why not make them
more life-like on a spiritual, narrative, moral, and romantic level?

Basically this article could be applied to the entire industry which
is shedding billions in market cap and thousands of jobs.

Over the past several years, I would pick up major gaming magazines
(EGM/Play/Edge) and turn straight to the letters section--the letters
from the readers/avid gamers.

Invariably, there would be writers stating that they were looking for
games with more exalted narrative, epic story, and meaning.

And the fanboy/fanmba editorial staff would often be both
condescending and dismissive, basically giving them the middle finger
in telling them to shut up and go back to their single-mom's basement
to play Fallout/GTA and shoot cops and hookers and women in metallic
bras, as really, GTA is all about the family, really, and living
morally, with profound ideas that have profound consequences; and
epic, exalted meanings for the greater culture.

And then, a few short months later, after giving the finger to the
reader/consumer/yearner for art and narrative, EGM went under.

CASE STUDY #1: The Epic Failure of Dante's Inferno: The Epic Price of
Ignoring Epic Story and Placing Dante's Beloved, Incorruptible
Beatrice in Hell, and Playing up the Giant Nipples/Vaginas/Baby-
Killing for The Vocal Fanboys

In one fell-swoop, EA blew several opportunities to exalt both
classical culture and their bottom line. Mired in the "debauch the
culture/currency and deconstruct the Greats" that so dominates our
culture, EA approached Dante's Divine Comedy from a hateful, arrogant,
fanboyish angle; instead of from a loving, manly, humble one.

So EA goes and slaps the name Dante's Inferno on a God of War Mod,
basically giving the middle finger to Dante's art, life, love, poetry,
religion, soul, and spirit, casting his beloved, incorruptible
Beatrcie in hell, and recasting Dante the poet and scholar as a buff,
world-wrestling-federation champion. And this is the result--a quickly
forgettable #eafailsuck, generic, been-there-done-that-but-better-the-
first-time-around game:

http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article- ... ferno.html

    What can be said for Dante’s Inferno? Well, it is definitely a
complete rip-off of God of War, so it has that going for it. Oh, and
it probably would have been better just to have made the game about a
random crusader diving through the many layers of Hell and claiming
inspiration to the literary classic. Now it just enrages anyone with
an appreciation for those long forgotten “book” things your ancestors
used to read. You know, back when paper was used by everyone and not
just bureaucrats behind the times.

    Truth be told the game wasn’t really all that thrilling. In fact,
it was a little bit irritating and just a tad sickening. A number of
buttons can be used for different attacks, yet somehow I always found
myself pulling off the same combo that ended with me stabbing into the
ground with a bone scythe. It felt like the only way to win was to
simply button mash without any real plan in mind. . . .

    . . .The combat to Dante’s Inferno isn’t terrible, but it isn’t
great either. It’s just another action game trying to be God of War.
The story may be good if you could care less about the literary
origins. The artwork goes from being generic to outright disturbing
and disgusting. EA can use as much controversial marketing tactics as
they wish, but there is a very small audience for this game. It will
have its fans, most certainly, but weeks after this game has been
released it will become forgotten.

    Thank God.

--http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article-2169-HandsOn-with-Dantes-
Inferno.html

All those hours, upon hours wasted in debauching art and losing EA's
investor's cash. All those hours, upon hours spent ignoring the story
and focusing on mere, fleeting marketing gimmicks, placing Aristotle's
spectacle first and his story dead last, thusly inverting the order of
Aristotle's Poetics, and harassing booth babes:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DrElliot ... w_Gold.php

I reached out to Jonathan Knight regarding how the Gold 45 Revolver /
Ideas Have Consequences / Moral Premise technologies could exalt not
only Dante's Inferno, but his entire company, but he was pre-dedicated
to debauching Dante's Divine Work, ignoring the fundamental precepts
of the divine, epic narrative, and losing market cap.

And that's where the epic advantage lies. In all their epic EA
arrogance they are forgetting that which matters most in art--the soul
and spirit, and thus story.

CASE STUDY # 2: EGM MAGAZINE'S FAIL

What an opportunity EGM had! When they received letters from readers
demanding profundity, poetry, and epic meaning in their games, they
could have run with it! They could have become the flagship
publication of the renaissance, while rallying game companies and
developers who exalted epic narrative in their games, carving out a
vast new market for games! If only!

But instead, because EGM magazine gave the exalted consumer the middle
finger, they are now defunct. EA's fanboyish/fanmbaish Dante's Inferno
is taking EA down the same EGM road to financial hell, giant vaginas,
nipples, and babby killing all. But that's what you get for placing
Beatrice in Hell.

I predicted this in my patent application, citing EGM's flippant,
arrogant, fanboyish response to an honest gamer seeking exaltation,
story, enlightenment in their games. What did they do? EGM told him to
shut up and go back to his mom's basement and play GTA.

FROM: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0017886.html

PRIOR ART AND ADVANTAGES OF PRESENT INVENTION
There is a vast demand for deeper, more intellectual video games that
is generally opposed throughout the industry. Many designers are weak
minded like the Storm Troopers in Star Wars, and thus they believe
hiring and killing prostitutes constitutes exalted story, as the
fiatocracy's Death Star commands them to believe. Many will defend
their hiring and killing prostitutes by the fact that one doesn't have
to in the open-ended world, but then it GTA is not truly an open-ended
world wherein one cannot take a prostitute to church, nor even speak
words of exalted wisdom to her that might save her soul, nor give her
a copy of Dante's Inferno nor Homer's Odyssey to exalt her soul. While
developers, publishers, and insiders constantly hype the storytelling
in games so as to sound cool and push product for mere monetary
profit, the young can see that the emperor is wearing no clothes. In
EGM's letter of the month, a reader expresses the rising generation's
demand by writing:

EGM Letter of The Month:

“As I grew up, videogames grew up with me. I started playing games
like Donkey Kong and Carnival on the ColecoVision before I could read,
and Nintendo's Mario title were a staple of my early childhood. As I
got older, I saw the storytlines and gameplay mechanics become more
intricate and engaging. When I went through my rebellious and bitchy
teenage years, so did videogames. And as I grew and matured, so did
the subject matter of the games themselves.

Now that I'm 22, more things are vying for my time and attention such
as work, college, women, drinking, and lamenting over my long-gone and
simpler childhood. Needless to say, if I'm going to devote 20-plus
hours of my life to completing a game, it had better be well worth it.
And to me personally, a game well worth it is one I can take something
away from on an intellectual level. For example, a game that makes me
question my own existence, or the war in Iraq, or the increasing
diconnectedness of our modern high-tech lives would be the holy grail
of gaming to me. What are the chances that gaming will finally grow
once more and develop a social and political conscience?—Eric
Staskiewicz, summer, 2008 EGM

EGM answers “The answers are pretty damn good. Games are more and more
frequently making “statements” about society and
...

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 More options Nov 12, 3:36 pm
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: dre <drell...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:36:25 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Nov 12 2009 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
Play Magazine Gets It: The Renaissance in Epic Story Will Be. . . as
long as you're willing to man up and fight for it....

[quote]
"NO COMPELLING VIDEO GAME NARRATIVE WAS EVER MADE BY A WRITER WHO HAD
HIS GUTS CLENCHED UP IN FEAR.  AS WITH A LOT OF THINGS IN LIFE,
[url=http://www.google.com/patents?id=aAuzAAAAEBAJ]HEROIC BRAVERY
(http://www.google.com/patents?id=aAuzAAAAEBAJ)[/url] IS WHAT IS
NEEDED." --Kyle B. Stiff, --page 111: I WANT THE BLOOD OF HEROES, by
Kyle B. Stiff, PLAY MAGAZINE, NOVEMBER, 2009

"But the stuffed suits refused to budge an inch regarding their policy
of not working with creative script writers who have the backbone to
take risks.  Instead, they stand ready to declare yet another "death
of storytelling" in video gaming." --page 111: I WANT THE BLOOD OF
HEROES, by Kyle B. Stiff, PLAY MAGAZINE, NOVEMBER, 2009
[/quote]

The most recent (November 2009)  issue of Play Magazine has several
articles devoted to storytelling in games.

By far the best one is to be found on page 111: I WANT THE BLOOD OF
HEROES.

The article takes place in the future, after 2015 when the "Anti-Story
division effectively won the debate," and thus "grew lax," finally
allowing the Gold 45 Revolver / Ideas Have Consequences / Moral
Premises to be exalted.

Like my Gold 45 Revolver patent, the article, by Kyle B. Stiff,
references a game based on Homer's Odyssey, as well as a game exalting
Penelope's moral actions; and the meaningful, epic, profound hero's
journey.

PLAY MAGAZINE wrote:

[quote]After video games were relegated to something to do while stuck
in traffic, the Anti-story movement became lax  A game called THE
ODYSSEY was made.  It was marketed as an educational tool, something
to help high school kids understand the ancient literature; a
necessary ruse to have a story-driven game green-lit.  It was about
Odysseus and his long journey home from the Trojan War.  The gods
opposed him and he had to fight a horde of misshapen beasts using
brute strength and nauseatingly violent finishing moves.  There were
tactical elements as well, as Odysseus had a crew of goons to back him
up.  And role-playing dialogue too, in which the player controlled
Penelope, Odysseus's wife, as she devised plots to delay a horde of
suitors from claiming her husband's estate.... Damn, we loved it!  The
final scene was vilified in mainstream news because, just as in the
original tale, Odysseus and his son round up Penelope's unhelpful
servants, take them behind some building, and slaughter them.  ... But
we didn't love the Odyssey because it was violent, we loved it because
it made us feel powerful, heroic, like we were on a meaningful journey
towards a goal rather than slogging from one day to the next. --page
111: I WANT THE BLOOD OF HEROES, by Kyle B. Stiff, PLAY MAGAZINE,
NOVEMBER, 2009[/quote]

 [quote]All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-
evident. Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 - 1860)[/quote]

DR. E'S 2007-2008 Gold 45 Revolver Patent wrote:

[quote](EXALTING THE MEANINGFUL HERO'S JOURNEY!("But we didn't love
the Odyssey because it was violent, we loved it because it made us
feel powerful, heroic, like we were on a meaningful journey towards a
goal."--Kyle B. Stiff, 11/2009))[1790]The basic concepts and ideas in
this invention will have far-ranging implications for the realm of
video games, for the greater culture, novel video games, greater
commercial opportunities in the realm of games, greater and enhanced
opportunities in merging games with film and literature, greater
opportunities for games with deep and profound souls and storytelling,
and new opportunities for games with vast educational potential. The
ideas and embodiments described herein may be modified, extended, and
improvised upon in countless ways. The present invention can bring
both the external hero's journey, that Moses and Odysseus traveled, as
well as the internal hero's journey, that Jesus and Socrates walked.

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090017886#ixzz0Wg8hzBRt

4. System and Method for Female Video Game Characters With Soul and
Virtue and Male Characters With Soul and Virtue:

[1622]Imagine video games that presented female characters with the
depth of soul and spirit owned by classical characters such as
Penelope, Beatrice, Mary Magdelane, the Virgin Mary, and The Mona
Lisa.

[1623]Having female characters behave and act morally, while others
don't, would provide a novel form of gameplay. For instance, in the
Odyssey, Agamemnon's wife cheats on him, and the man she takes in ends
up killing Agamemnon. This is contrasted to Penelope, who remains
faithful throughout, thusly ensuring that Odysseus's life and home are
preserved. So it is that in this novel form of video games, women will
be shown on both sides of the moral premise, and not only that, but
their moral choices will be fundamental to the eventual victory or
defeat.

[1624]Opportunities abound for deeper, more profound female
characters, as fanboys such as Cliffyb and Wyckyg are yet focusing on
breasts, as Wired reports: [1625]"Speaking to Wired.com at Microsoft's
recent media event, the designer (above left) says that Epic Games is
trying to make their upcoming Xbox 360 shooter more appealing to the
casual audience. The game's female characters, he said, won't have
"ginormous tits." And the lauded kill-alien-swarms-with-a-buddy
cooperative mode will let you adjust the game's difficulty on the fly
depending on who's playing. How do you make a game girlfriend-
friendly? You do jump-in, jump-out co-op. You have configurable
difficulty settings for the other player. You have very cool and bad-
ass main characters that have a very human side. And you make sure
that the female characters in your game don't have ginormous tits and
aren't bad stereotypes. What are the female characters in Gears 2
like? I've always made sure, working with the art department, that
Anya is strong-willed but also very mother-like to the squad. She has
a very modest chest and doesn't look like some sort of heavy metal
movie fantasy."--http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/cliffy-b-
gears.html

[1626]Well, that is vast and resounding progress. Boobs are mentioned
three times in the above passage, although nobody mentions the vast
importance of the moral woman's character in the realm of classical,
epic storytelling. No gaming expert has yet ever suggested that the
ultimate woman character in a video game ought behave morally, like
Penelope. In our dumbed-down, spectacle-driven society, morality is
seen as a bad thing--the exact antithesis to art. And so the best the
fanboys can do is make the in-game character's breast-size smaller.
There is no mention of making them faithful, nor having them speak
intelligently, nor making them weave and unweave a tapestry, as does
Penelope, to keep the suitors at bay, while waiting faithfully for
Odysseus. So it is that games have yet to achieve higher, classical,
epic art. And so it is that this patent, by instilling deep ideas and
ideals within the game's context and AI, will allow for superior
gameplay.

[1627]Female Characters with Soul and Virtue: Every year Play Magazine
publishes its Girls of Gaming collection which states at
http://playmagazine.com/thegirlsofgaming/index.html, Girls of Gaming
Vol. 5 "is jam packed with hotness from every corner of the gaming
universe and when you sign up to go digital you'll get our 20-page
Best-Of Girls of Gaming absolutely free, along with bonus mature
content too hot for print. The print edition is something special as
well, featuring embossed, spot varnished covers and top quality
materials." Year after year Play Magazine publishes this work, and
year after year the industry creates games; but they are missing soul
on both the masculine and feminine levels. A game that showed a
character being seduced, but resisting, as did Penelope in The
Odyssey, could enhance game play by inspiring and exalting the main
character to make it on home. Imagine cut-scenes that showed women
reading exalted poetry, or lines from Shakespeare' plays, representing
virtues. They could be contrasted to evil women and temptresses
throughout literature. [1628]1. Imagine cut scenes that showed women
acting with virtue to inspire the player to make it on home. For
instance, seeing Penelope behaving virtuously and resisting the
suitors could inspire the player to make it on back to the damsel in
distress. [1629]2. Imagine cut-scenes that showed men acting with
virtue to inspire the female in-game-character to also act virtuous.
For instance imagine a character of Penelope witnessing Odysseus's
resistance of the Sirens, or his other noble actions and refusals of
temptations.

[1630]If a player were playing as Penelope, and they did not act
morally and took on a suitor as Husband, the suitor would kill her
husband when she got home, as happened with Agamemnon. Thus moral
actions would have moral consequences; and immoral actions would have
immoral consequences.

[1631]A game such as GTA could be enhanced by allowing the player to
shoot the pimp and save the women/prostitutes, telling the women to
sin no more.

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090017886#ixzz0Wg1XASLw

[1774]FIG. 5 illustrates how the present invention may be used to
bring the great books and classics alive in a dialogue and action
tree, wherein ideas have consequences. The present invention may
father future inventions which treat this fundamental, basic concept
in far more detail. The player (500) would reach a plot point in
Homer's Odyssey (501). The player would then have to make a choice of
what to say/do. By choosing Odysseus's words and/or his actions (504),
such as telling his men to tie him to the mast, the player is rewarded
with the exalted plot of the Odyssey as they are taken closer to
winning their home and Penelope, and they get to encounter the next
plot point
...

read more »


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 More options Nov 15, 2:00 pm
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: dre <drell...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 15 2009 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
On Nov 12, 12:36 pm, dre <drell...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

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 More options Nov 16, 12:55 pm
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: dre <drell...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:55:37 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Nov 16 2009 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
On Nov 15, 11:00 am, dre <drell...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

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 More options Nov 16, 1:21 pm
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: dre <drell...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:21:14 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
On Nov 12, 12:36 pm, dre <drell...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

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 More options Nov 22, 12:14 pm
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.fps, alt.games.video.shooters, alt.games.video.xbox, talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian
From: dre <drell...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:14:04 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 22 2009 12:14 pm
Subject: Re: Improving/Exalting/Simplifying Videogames with The Gold 45 Revolver /Ideas Have Consequences/Moral Premise Technology:
On Nov 10, 12:23 pm, dre <drell...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

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