Metal Gear 4 - does it really look good?
blue
when I saw the preview for metal gear 4. But then I watched it again,
thought about it, and now I'm really dissapointed.
The reason being - when I first watched it I was a little underwhelmed
by the graphics but I thought that it looked like a great update of
Metal Gear.
The thing is when I watch it now and actually compare it to a number of
games coming out I actually think it looks pretty mundane and
backward, not on the graphics front but the gameplay.
It just looks like they have taken MGS1 and updated the graphics, the
gameplay looks very similar. In fact it looks pretty boring. Think about
how you would feel if you saw a game like this for the first time with
an open mind (ie: you haven't seen MG1,2, or 3).
To me if I hadn't seen any previous games I wouldn't have known what the
hell the fuss was about.
The animation looks stilted, the guards are as stupid as ever and it
doesn't look like anybody involved in the whole enterprise has actually
bothered to change anything apart from the look of the thing. Worse
still it seems to be some sort of hybrid of an FPS. And I never think a
game that wants to be two things at once comes out well.
I'm sure all the Metal Gear fans will bark up, but I can't help thinking
that when you take the rose spectacles off it just looks quite ordinary.
boodybandit
"blue" <bal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nSkri.34404$2U6....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I'm not trying to annoy anybody here but I was a little dissapointed when
> I saw the preview for metal gear 4. But then I watched it again, thought
> about it, and now I'm really dissapointed.
>
> The reason being - when I first watched it I was a little underwhelmed by
> the graphics
I'm confused a bit. Are you the same "blue" that was here a week or 2 back
talking up the Wii and how graphics don't matter?
blue
This post is about the gameplay though isn't it? I don't think I said
that graphics 'don't matter' just that the gameplay should come first.
That statement is meaningless without the context it was written in really.
This doesn't stop me being underwhelmed when I'm primed to be amazed
though. This is Metal Gear I'm talking about, A game that prides it's
self on being as close to a movie as possible. I'm not going to be
underwhelmed by the graphics in a puyo pop sequel because I knew they
were going to be basic. I AM going to be with MG because they pushed the
previous consoles to the limit.
Metal Gear should be standing up there with Crysis etc. It's clearly
not. That's why I'm underwhelmed. As I said in previous posts I'm
dissapointed, I don't think the graphics are bad though just technically
subpar.
boodybandit
> boodybandit wrote:
>>
>> "blue" <bal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:nSkri.34404$2U6....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>>> I'm not trying to annoy anybody here but I was a little dissapointed
>>> when I saw the preview for metal gear 4. But then I watched it again,
>>> thought about it, and now I'm really dissapointed.
>>>
>>> The reason being - when I first watched it I was a little underwhelmed
>>> by the graphics
>>
>>
>> I'm confused a bit. Are you the same "blue" that was here a week or 2
>> back talking up the Wii and how graphics don't matter?
>
> This post is about the gameplay though isn't it? I don't think I said that
> graphics 'don't matter' just that the gameplay should come first. That
> statement is meaningless without the context it was written in really.
No it wasn't taken out of context. It was what you wrote and how you started
your complaints about Metal Gear. You were first put off by the "graphics".
Nothing out of context about it. Anyone that judges a game before they have
a chance to play it for themself holds absolutely no value to me what so
ever.
I never buy into hype and I don't believe anything until I have a chance to
play it for myself. It's just like these idiots that call Heavnly Sword a
God of War wanna be and Uncharted a Tomb Raider clone. How can yo pass
judegement on a game from a stupid streamed video of a demo?
But hey don't mind me.
Keep on complaining away.
I have zero interest in MGS4 and most other sequels that have been beaten to
death. I want new and I hope both the PS3 and 360 keep striving to bring
new exclusive titles out for each system Like Heavenly Sword, Lair, Mass
Effect, Condemned, to name a few.
blue
Dude, you've got your anti troll hat on, slow down. I started by saying
I was a 'little underwhelmed'. I didn't say the graphics were bad, look
at the other posts I made, I like the style. I wanted to discuss how the
gameplay doesn't seem to have advanced any.
The comment about the Wii was taken out of context. If you can't
understand what I'm getting at then you don't seem to grasp that there
are no absolutes when you talk about any visual medium. With regards to
th wii - Wii Tennnis isn't going to get better if it had better
graphics, Metal Gear might becuase it's about 'playing a movie' and
immersing a player into the world. So comparing the two is taking what I
said entirely out of context. It's like comparing a piece of cubist art
to a photo.
I agree with you that you shouldn't judge a game before you play it butr
I just wanted to open up a discussion. Should have known better.
Brenden D. Chase
"blue" <bal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nSkri.34404$2U6....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I saw the preview for metal gear 4. But then I watched it again, thought
> about it, and now I'm really dissapointed.
>
> The reason being - when I first watched it I was a little underwhelmed by
> the graphics but I thought that it looked like a great update of Metal
> Gear.
Underwhelmed by the graphics - check!
>
> The thing is when I watch it now and actually compare it to a number of
> games coming out I actually think it looks pretty mundane and backward,
> not on the graphics front but the gameplay.
>
mundane and backward gameplay - check!
> It just looks like they have taken MGS1 and updated the graphics, the
> gameplay looks very similar. In fact it looks pretty boring. Think about
> how you would feel if you saw a game like this for the first time with an
> open mind (ie: you haven't seen MG1,2, or 3).
> To me if I hadn't seen any previous games I wouldn't have known what the
> hell the fuss was about.
gameplay similar, looks boring - check
>
> The animation looks stilted, the guards are as stupid as ever and it
> doesn't look like anybody involved in the whole enterprise has actually
> bothered to change anything apart from the look of the thing. Worse still
> it seems to be some sort of hybrid of an FPS. And I never think a game
> that wants to be two things at once comes out well.
>
poor animation, poor AI - check
> I'm sure all the Metal Gear fans will bark up, but I can't help thinking
> that when you take the rose spectacles off it just looks quite ordinary.
look ordinary - check
Is there anything else to add?
AirRaid
and that was not some pre-rendered CGI sequence, it was realtime, and
60fps. it was impressive because it was running on a highend GPU or
SLI'ed GPUs with more performance than PS3's RSX. since then, MGS4
for PS3 has been graphically downgraded in both graphical complexity /
detail and framerate. the model of Snake and foes are more simple
now, and the whole thing is running at 30fps.
blue
opinion to OMG! AMAZING! etc. As I was starting to doubt what planet I
was on.
Brenden D. Chase
Good, now get lost!
boodybandit
I wonder the same thing everytime I hear some Nintendo zealot defend the Wii
as an actual "next" gen system and how amazingly innovative it is to wave
your arms around like you're having a apoplectic fit is entertaining
SHaKeY STeVe
You dudes need new glasses - check. I guess I must have been watching
a different MGR4 demo...to me, it looked absolutely fantastic...but I
am a Metal Gear fanboy, sooooooo...
Peter
allabo...@comcast.net says...
>
> "blue" <bal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:K6Cri.35138$2U6....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Brenden D. Chase wrote:
> >> "blue" <bal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:nSkri.34404$2U6....@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >>
> >>
> > No not really, I just wanted to find out if anybody else had a contrary
> > opinion to OMG! AMAZING! etc. As I was starting to doubt what planet I was
> > on.
>
>
> I wonder the same thing everytime I hear some Nintendo zealot defend the Wii
> as an actual "next" gen system and how amazingly innovative it is to wave
> your arms around like you're having a apoplectic fit is entertaining
>
>
So describing it as an 'apoplectic fit' makes you feel more safe with
your joystick waggling does it?
Can't say I've had an opportunity to try the Wii, but I'm looking
forward to doing so. Everyone that I've spoken to, that have tried it
or own one, say it's great fun. Most of those people more than likely
wouldn't go near a console, or would lose interest very quickly if they
had to sit there with a joypad in there hands whilst having to work out
which button combinations to press. Far too tedious for them. So feel
free to ridicule the Wii, but it isn't going away. This way of playing
is here to stay.
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
boodybandit
"Peter" <pete.ives...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.211a7a89e...@news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Wowee Petey you really told me, NOT. If anything you just aced what I have
been saying about the POS Nintendo is trying to pass off as a 'next' gen
gaming console. It's a gimmick to sale to the mass market of "non" gamers
that any idiot can pick up and be entertained with for "short" periods of
time. What most of your friends, trust me when I say I know tons of tons of
"gamers" that have played the Wii for themselves and have friends or
relatives that picjed one up that never played a game before in their lives,
failed to tell you is they are already bored with the system. After the
intial fun factor of Wii sports wore off there was nothing left to do.
The Wii can sell 250 million units but that still won't change the fact that
it's nothing but a gimmick / fad. What you and others fail to realize is
that the Wii will pay off for Sony and MS in the long run by bringing new
people to the gaming realm that will eventually want to try real games that
take advantage of their flat screen tv's and surround sound systems in their
homes.
When Nintendo sells the system for what it's actually worth $99, maybe I'll
pick one up to play Mario Galaxy or Mario Sunshine 2 w/ the traditional
controller and not that lame ass Wiimote.
boodybandit
"SHaKeY STeVe" <shakey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185964004.8...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
*wooosh*
Brenden was being sarcastic Steveo ;-)
blue
blue
Jesus, should have known not to say anything about the beloved MG
series. Shit, does everybody in here have to act like their having a PMT
fit the whole time.
Steve Liu
Peter <pete.ives...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I wonder the same thing everytime I hear some Nintendo zealot defend the Wii
>> as an actual "next" gen system and how amazingly innovative it is to wave
>> your arms around like you're having a apoplectic fit is entertaining
>
>So describing it as an 'apoplectic fit' makes you feel more safe with
>your joystick waggling does it?
>
>Can't say I've had an opportunity to try the Wii, but I'm looking
>forward to doing so. Everyone that I've spoken to, that have tried it
>or own one, say it's great fun. Most of those people more than likely
>wouldn't go near a console, or would lose interest very quickly if they
>had to sit there with a joypad in there hands whilst having to work out
>which button combinations to press. Far too tedious for them. So feel
>free to ridicule the Wii, but it isn't going away. This way of playing
>is here to stay.
Having watched my nephew play Zelda on the Wii, I can honestly say it
isn't any revolution. He clearly figured out the minimum necessary hand
movements and sat on the couch basically playing it no differently than
the normal arm motions you might find with a normal controller. If you
ever noticed yourself tilting the controller in a driving game, you
probably know what I'm talking about.
Personally, I found the Wii controller actually annoying. It might have
the games I tried (Super Monkey Ball and ExciteTruck) but there were what
I would call "return to center" and "resting" motions that the Wii
controller thinks you actually want to do in a game.
==========
Steve Liu
"There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way." - Homer
"Isn't that the wrong way?" - Bart
"Yes, but faster."
Rich Hutnik
> I'm not trying to annoy anybody here but I was a little dissapointed
> when I saw the preview for metal gear 4. But then I watched it again,
> thought about it, and now I'm really dissapointed.
>
> The reason being - when I first watched it I was a little underwhelmed
> by the graphics but I thought that it looked like a great update of
> Metal Gear.
>
> I'm sure all the Metal Gear fans will bark up, but I can't help thinking
> that when you take the rose spectacles off it just looks quite ordinary.
I am not a MGS fan at all. I have followed and have respected it.
What I saw in MGS4 as far as a game goes looks VERY good. It looks
like a nice twist on the usual MGS format. It looks interesting
actually. I may get it eventually, but will be holding off for awhile
on it.
- Rich
Brenden D. Chase
"boodybandit" <allabo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t9ydnbU-tPUF6i3b...@comcast.com...
I'll be perfectly honest. I've played the Wii. Twice actually. Two of my
coworkers own it. I've played Wii sports, which is 'OK', and i played Mario
Party # (dont recall what number they are on) and that was pretty boring.
Overall, i wasnt impressed by the wand waving.
However, i will say that the Wii will continue to broaden the ever growing
gaming market. Not forever though. The people they are bringing back into
the fold will eventually enjoy themselves enough to want to buy the more
'adult' gaming systems as you can only hold your arms up in the air for so
long.
>
Brenden D. Chase
Well your email is balls1... so i guess you would like to fuck me. And PS,
if you're going to put my name in your post at least spell it right. Thanks!
Brenden D. Chase
So what, after you cooled off from being bitch-slapped you came and made a
sensable post???
Look, you have a right to your opinion, just as any one else in here. We
just think you are wrong. Deal with it.
boodybandit
"Brenden D. Chase" <brenden.cha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xe9si.17393$BX3....@newsfe13.lga...
oh and FUCK OFF!
Peter
allabo...@comcast.net says...
You wish. What you seem to fail to realise is that people who are trying
console gaming for the first time because of the Wii are doing so
because it is different and because it is a fun experience, great in a
group and wouldn't touch the idea of sitting there with a joypad button
mashing for all they're worth if you paid them just because the games
are going to 'look and sound' better.
'Real games'? That's a good one. A video game is a video game. End of.
No matter what it looks like. I've been playing video games for over 20
years and it doesn't matter how great you make the graphics and sound,
the gameplay is still, intrinsically the same as it ever was. Button
mashing. The time was right for something new.
Also, it is a fairly solitary experience. Something the Wii has tried
to change. What's the betting you spend at least 90% of your time
playing your console alone, just trying to beat your best score etc.
Sure the Wii is never going to attract the hard core game like yourself
as easily, but that's not what it's been designed for. One thing for
sure though is that it's definitely here to stay.
blue
converstaion about analysis of gameplay beyond "It's fucking brillaint"
or "This sucks" and all I get is the usual tirade of whiney bitches who
cant do anything apart from react like they're Sandra Bernhard on the rag.
blue
I think it's clear to anybody that the 'next generation' isn't going to
start selling for some time yet. Sony have a massive success with the
ps2, Nintendo with the DS (and looks like replicating that with the
Wii). That's where the money lies at the moment and that is where most
of the software companies are going to invest. The only company really
losing out is Microsoft.
I wouldn't expect any comprehension from a man who sees himself as a
'boodybandit' though.
blue
Oh I'm sorry, I love Sony they're great. Their new console sure is the
shizzna.
blue
Thanks for a sensible opinion for once. I'd agree that it looks
interesting, I'm going to wait myself.
I always thought that these games showed so much promise, I though MG1
was good but it had too many cutsecenes and not enough gameplay so I
thought was overhyped because of that. The second one had way too many
cutscenes so I didn't bother. What I played of the third was much
better. I always hoped that they put more of an actual game in there
beyond stringing together a series of convoluted cartoons.
They do deserve respect though, they are crafted with a lot of care.
blue
You've got a dirty mind, they are footballs. I did spell it right BRENDON!
Brenden D. Chase
Is that s/he even relevant in this day and age? You could have said Rosanne
Barr, or Hilary Clinton.... jeez!
Anyway, asking for the contrary opinion, and calling the game a 'visually'
upgraded version of the PS2 versions are two different things. You stated
your opinion. Of which most, if not all of us disagree. It's pretty much
fact that 'gameplay' has changed. Maybe it hasnt changed enough for you, or
you dont like the new changes... i dont know, because you didnt mention what
you didnt like. Just that it was boring, and the AI was poor. As if you were
looking at the actual final GAME AI. Given Kojima's track record i have
faith that the final game will be nothing short of 'fucking brilliant'. Rag
on the cutscenes all you want from previous versions, but the parts that
were playable were very good. And this version ups the ante, especially with
the level of gameplay details. If you'd like to discuss this further, i'm
willing. But i'll wait for your elaborated opinion first. As you really
havent given one yet. Your post reads more like trolling 101. So unless
you are going to bring substance to your claims, this conversation is over.
Brenden D. Chase
No... no... you didnt.
blue
First of all I was trying to open up a conversation with a few points
not openly slag a game that isn't finished. As I said I before I think
the game looks good (I wish you guys would actually take the positives
of what I said into account) It's just that after looking at it again it
doesn't look like Kojima has improved the gameplay much.
I have to comment on what I'm looking at now rather than speculate at
what the actual AI will be in regards to your comment, I think we should
stick to what we saw on the trailer rather than make predictions based
on how brilliant the previous games were and that was part of what my
original point was (rose tinted glasses etc.)
When I look at something like Bioshock, it looks genuinely innovative
even though it's treading the familiar FPS route. I have no objection to
older gameplay styles repeating either, for example I think Mario Galaxy
will probably be great but then I can't really imagine how Mario could
be controlled any better by the player.
This isn't the case with Metal Gear though. The animations and gameplay
in past MG games have been limted by the hardware and they were in tern
updates of older styles, I don't think this looks convincing this time.
The game is set in such a realistic and action packed world that I
really can't forgive the stilted animation that the charcters have this
time around.
The game looks very slick but some of the things that sticks out from
the trailer for me are -
- The charcters move too way slowly, the guards tip toe around and this
gives the impression that they are alert and watchful.
- The fact that you can walk within plain sight and distance of a gaurd
and they won't notice you, showing that they aren't infact alert at all
but worse they seem to have the same AI as previous games. Why bother
with the new camoflage if this is the case?
- The speed at which SS runs is bothersome, I know he's an old man but ..
- The FPS gun portion looks tacked on, the fixed gun is a joke. I am
willing to concede that this is probably a placeholder as it looks so
phoney.
- The animation is stilted in that it starts and stops abruptly like the
previous games.
- There doesn't seem to be much reaction to sound from the guards,
hiding in the trash can and the barrel roll produced no reaction even
though they were loud sounds. There's not much point in you smelling
from being in the trash when getting in and out makes so much noise.
All these niggles form one big complaint, which is that Kojima seems to
want to update the visuals (the explosions and general look are great by
the way) but is scared of losing the core gameplay. This new game looks
much more action orientated and I don't think that this older style of
gameplay suits this sort of game at all. It looks like exciting things
are happening but the actual characters are stuck in a slow motion
timewarp, and farnkly I expected Kojima to be much more adventurous, for
example like Capcom were with updating RE.
The new things, the smelling, first person, being sick, camoflage etc
don't seem to add anything to the game that wasn't there before and as I
said above seem to be redundant when the guards are so stupid anyway.
Now you could argue that the gameplay was perfect and that is what MG is
about, but on the evidence to me it looks like Kojima was too scared of
making changes to the basic gameplay to to keep pace with his epic
ideas. I think anybody who saw this for the first time would be
wondering 'why is everything happening so slowly' and that's why I said
I thought that it looked a bit dull. The game might play very well, who
knows, but I was really, really hoping the guards would at least show
some level of intelligence this time around as I like to feel like I'm
up against an actual enemy rather than a sack of potatos. This game has
so much potential and it doesn't look like Kojima has implememented any
next gen concepts beyond upping the visuals.
Oh and I couldn't think of anybody more ragworthy than Bernhard, try,
it's difficult ;)
blue
Yeah I know, we just used to wind a kid up at school by saying DON
loudly at the end of his name, that's why it was in caps, couldn't
resist, sorry.
Brenden D. Chase
damn either my news groups are all messed up, or i'm beginning to see the
future... i swear i read this message days ago...