Why there are no games for Nintendo 64...
Kill OJ
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:32:10 +0100, Web-Slinger
<sli...@websling.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Carlont wrote:
>>
>> If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
>> EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
>> Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
>> cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
>> know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
>> of cash. Here are some facts:
>
>> 1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
>
>That's just wrong. The $30 figure you quote includes the royalty to
>Nintendo, too. Take a N64 cartridge apart and have a good look -- it
>do you really thing it costs all -that- much to assemble? The
>equivilent price for a CD manufacturing & licensing is about $10.
Oh boy. Another person on Nintendo's payroll. Bullshit, bullshit, and
Bullshit. You sound just as bad as Howard Lincoln's denial. Snap out
of it.
>
>> 2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
>
>You exaggerate. CDs can take within a week; cartridges within a month.
All the magazines I have ever read say he is right-that it could take
a few months.
>
>> 3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
>
>So developers are more likely to dump crap games onto the market...
Oh boy. Now I know for sure you are a Nintendo employee. No one in the
public in his or her right mind would buy that excuse anymore. What
kind of games are there mostly right now? Surprise! CRAP!
>> 4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
>
>Have any figures for that? I do, and their licensing fees aren't
>-that- much more expensive than Sega's or Sony's.
Funny, I don't here any third party companies bitching about licensing
fees from Sega or Sony. But I guess you would dismiss that as
coincidence.
>You tell only half the story. Yes, developers have flocked to the
>Playstation rather than the N64, but it's more complicated than
>just CDs vs Carts. Nintendo's Dream-Team policy, for a start
>alienated all but a handful of developers, plus there's simply more
>red tape developing for Nintendo platforms (read: the "Tree-House").
Oh yeah. And all the current third party developers are really
good-right? NOT!
>
>
>> Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
>> Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
>> but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
>
>Yeah, but guess what? The Playstation has been out longer than the N64.
>I know it's a surprise. Sit down and take it all in.
You're the one that needs to take it all in. Come on. If your not on
the clock what can they do? Don't use your real name! Don't be afraid
to tell us how you feel!
>
>Stupid cross-posting troll.
Stupid brainwashed Nintendo employee.
>--
>
>Web-Slinger [IRC: "WebSlinga"] - N64 Gazetta Webmaster
>
>e-mail : sli...@websling.demon.co.uk
>N64 Gazetta : http://www.famicom.com/n64/
>
> "Give 'em an inch, they take a foot, and before
> you know it, you haven't got a leg to stand on."
Carlont
If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
of cash. Here are some facts:
1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
[] Carlont
[]
[] Countless Codes
[] http://www.countless-codes.com
[] Codes & FAQs for 64/32 bit Games
Jamie Dirom
Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:07:40 GMT, Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont)
wrote:
>
> >
> >If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
> >EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> >Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> >cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
> >know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
> >of cash. Here are some facts:
> >1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
> >2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
> >3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
> >4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
> >Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
> >Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
> >but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
> >
And paying less for their games. This is from a recent trip to Wal Mart
(one of the few places here in Calgary that carries all three systems):
Saturn price range: 49.96-74.96 (not exact)
PSX price range: 69.96-79.96 (not exact, doesn't include bargain games)
N64 price range: 79.96-119.96 (no exaggerating, not exact)
(All prices are Canadian $$$)
All the basic ranges here are accurate, just not down to the last penny
(probably within $1). I find this extremely scary. I don't actually
*own* a game for my N64 yet. I'm living on rentals. The games are good,
but I find it hard to justify spending this kind of money on a game
($80, I could see, but not much above.. at $80, the only selections are
Mario64 and Mario Kart).
For the record, I seem to recall that they had $60 range PSX games on
another occasion, and they were probably sold out this time around.
Anyhow, don't have much more of a point than that. I think the numbers
speak for themselves. Is the disparity so large in the States? I tend to
ignore US prices when people post them because there's such a range, and
people are often quoting prices from different stores (i.e. Best Buy vs.
Electronics Boutique).
Well, I guess that was kind of pointless :)
-j
Hyper Static
i guess you would have to look all the comments just made here
above...notice how one person contradicts and puts down anything of or
from nintendo's 64 (making me beleive he really enjoys his
shitstation...) and the other pointing out the reasons of why the n64
has fewer releases than other systems (dont give people reasons...you
enjoy the N64 some people are just anti-all-that-is-nintendo-made....
let them enjoy their FF7's and Crash bandicoot's while you play at least
one unbeleivable game for N64 once a month...) Put it this way, what
game came out for the playstation this month or the month before that
was truely outstanding? lets see the n64 had: doom64,blastcorps,fifa, &
turok...ill let the playstation devoted to post the "awesome"
playstation games that have come out in the passed 2 months....
Mark Smith
On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:07:40 GMT, Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont) wrote:
>
>If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
>EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
>Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
>cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
>know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
>of cash. Here are some facts:
>1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
>2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
>3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
>4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
>Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
>Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
>but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
>
I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the shattered
Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as the JAG
and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the only
"good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd party
titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there who will defend these titles but
the fact is they do NOT live up to what Mario and Waverace and PilotWings set as
the introductory standard.
Unless Nintendo loosens up a bit you will find a lot of N64's at garage sales
this summer.
Web-Slinger
Carlont wrote:
>
> If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
> EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
> know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
> of cash. Here are some facts:
> 1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
That's just wrong. The $30 figure you quote includes the royalty to
Nintendo, too. Take a N64 cartridge apart and have a good look -- it
do you really thing it costs all -that- much to assemble? The
equivilent price for a CD manufacturing & licensing is about $10.
> 2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
You exaggerate. CDs can take within a week; cartridges within a month.
> 3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
So developers are more likely to dump crap games onto the market...
> 4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
Have any figures for that? I do, and their licensing fees aren't
-that- much more expensive than Sega's or Sony's.
You tell only half the story. Yes, developers have flocked to the
Playstation rather than the N64, but it's more complicated than
just CDs vs Carts. Nintendo's Dream-Team policy, for a start
alienated all but a handful of developers, plus there's simply more
red tape developing for Nintendo platforms (read: the "Tree-House").
> Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
> Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
> but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
Yeah, but guess what? The Playstation has been out longer than the N64.
I know it's a surprise. Sit down and take it all in.
Stupid cross-posting troll.
AIR_TIME
I have NEVER seen a game over 54$ here in the US...for the Playstation...
but I also have NEVER seen a game under 50$ for the N64
Most every PSX game here is 39.99$ just about everywhere you look, even new
realeases....Tomb Raider was my only game that was 50$
Jamie Dirom <dir...@cadvision.com> wrote in article
<335567...@cadvision.com>...
> Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:07:40 GMT, Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont)
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
> > >EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> > >Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> > >cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
> > >know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
> > >of cash. Here are some facts:
> > >1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
> > >2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
> > >3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
> > >4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
> > >Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
> > >Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
> > >but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
> > >
>
Charles Miller Jr.
Web-Slinger <sli...@websling.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<33556F...@websling.demon.co.uk>...
> > 1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
>
> That's just wrong. The $30 figure you quote includes the royalty to
> Nintendo, too. Take a N64 cartridge apart and have a good look -- it
> do you really thing it costs all -that- much to assemble? The
> equivilent price for a CD manufacturing & licensing is about $10.
And therefor the PSX costs one third the cost.
> > 2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
>
> You exaggerate. CDs can take within a week; cartridges within a month.
And therefor the CD takes a week and a cart a month.
> > 3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
>
> So developers are more likely to dump crap games onto the market...
Not so bad really. Ever thought of this, if you don't like the game then
don't buy it? Hu hu? Also, you will not see long shot GEMS on the N64.
You miss out on A LOT of creativity this way. To say it in some way is bad
to pick what you like rather than picking what is tried and true is pretty
fishy. Name an origional game for the N64 that could have done bad. Mario
is great. But Turok, KI, MKT, etc etc etc are unorigional. You kill
creativity because people will not release stuff that MIGHT make it. Also,
you trim down what MIGHT MAKE it because of the royalties.
> > 4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
>
> Have any figures for that? I do, and their licensing fees aren't
> -that- much more expensive than Sega's or Sony's.
None the less it is more in all due to packaging, cart cost, etc etc.
> You tell only half the story. Yes, developers have flocked to the
> Playstation rather than the N64, but it's more complicated than
> just CDs vs Carts. Nintendo's Dream-Team policy, for a start
> alienated all but a handful of developers, plus there's simply more
> red tape developing for Nintendo platforms (read: the "Tree-House").
And therefor the N64 has few games and the PSX lots.
> > Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
> > Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
> > but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
> Yeah, but guess what? The Playstation has been out longer than the N64.
> I know it's a surprise. Sit down and take it all in.
Um, but if you can remember this far back.... at the same time in each
systems life the PSX had MANY MORE games than the N64 has now. Granted
they didn't have M64 and, one of my favs, KIG.
> Stupid cross-posting troll.
Hm.....
Eric Souza
Mark Smith <ds...@cris.com> wrote in article
<33554405...@news.concentric.net>...
> >
> I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the
shattered
> Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as
the JAG
> and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the
only
> "good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd
party
> titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
>
> I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there who will defend these
titles but
> the fact is they do NOT live up to what Mario and Waverace and PilotWings
set as
> the introductory standard.
>
> Unless Nintendo loosens up a bit you will find a lot of N64's at garage
sales
> this summer.
>
Not to say that I agree with Nintendo's practices concerning the N64 and
carts, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Keep in Mind:
1. N64 has already made it into 4 million homes worldwide (give or take).
Did either 3do or the Jag attain that goal in the *entirety* of their shelf
life? N64 has only been on the market for 9 months in japan and 6 months
in the US.
2. N64 games, regardless of quality have consistently dominated the
bestseller charts. I don't know exact figures but hasn't Mario Kart 64
already sold something like 1 million copies? Granted there are very few
games but was there any game for the JAG or 3do that fared as well?
3. Nintendo knows how to lead consumers by the nose. There are many with
nostalgic memories of Nintendo games past. Nintendo knows this and they'll
use it. They've already begun. Doubtless, by the time Zelda 64 has
finally made it to the store shelves, they will have hyped its release more
than FF7. Meanwhile there's Starfox 64, Donkey Kong 64 and, waiting in the
wings, FZero64 and Metroid 64. Will they be bad games? probably not -
Nintendo does have an image to uphold.
eatshitanddie
On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:29:49 GMT, ds...@cris.com (Mark Smith) wrote:
Then sell your fucking N64 and if you don't have one get the fuck out
of this NG!
William Barnes
In article <33554405...@news.concentric.net>, ds...@cris.com (Mark Smith) wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:07:40 GMT, Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont) wrote:
>>1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
Actually, you're forgetting that Sony and Sega charge more than a dollar to
manufacture CDs for their respective game systems' third-party developers;
they also take their "pound of flesh" in licensing fees. However, the basic
point still remains true: CDs cost much less to manufacture than cartridges.
And this is money which the developer has to *pay* Sega, Sony, or Nintendo to
make the games, so a company has a much bigger investment (and therefore risk)
in producing 10,000 N64 games than in 10,000 PSX or Saturn games. Moreover,
Sony and Sega could drop the amount of their licensing fees - settle for "4 to
8 ounces of flesh," so to speak 8-) - if they felt the need. Because of the
high cost of manufacturing cartridges, Nintendo simply can't compete.
One other point I think you (or EGM) forgot to make is that Nintendo wants
exclusive titles - i.e., developers to release a game only for the N64. It
seems that conversions of existing titles is OK (hence MKT and Doom 64), but
when it comes to new games, Nintendo wants a lock on them. While it makes
sense from Nintendo's POV - the more exclusive titles have, the more reason
consumers have for choosing your game console over others - it increases the
risk to developers when they have to put their eggs in one basket.
>I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the shattered
>Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as the JAG
>and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the only
>"good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd party
>titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
I think it's a little too soon to consign the N64 to the bargain bin alongside
the Jaguar and 3DO 8-). For one thing, the N64 has achieved a much higher
degree of market penetration (i.e., has sold a lot more units and games) in
less than a year than either the 3DO or Jag ever achieved. Also, Nintendo has
a marketable franchise of games to draw on, which clearly they will exploit.
However, I do expect that there will be a lot of disgruntled N64 owners if
Nintendo and its developers don't have a good second wave of games available
in time for the next Christmas shopping season. Nintendo has done an
astounding job of coming on strong and establishing a solid presence in a
matter of months. Now it's time for them to reward their loyal customers and
entice holdouts (like me 8-) with new games...
-------------
William Barnes wba...@mhcec.com mins...@earthlink.net
Development Editor, McGraw-Hill Continuing Education Center
AIR_TIME
YOu get out of this newsgroup....your int he playstation news group..
eatshitanddie wrote in article <33557051...@news.zippo.com>...
>
> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:29:49 GMT, ds...@cris.com (Mark Smith) wrote:
>
> Then sell your fucking N64 and if you don't have one get the fuck out
> of this NG!
>
> >I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the
shattered
> >Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as
the JAG
> >and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the
only
> >"good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd
party
> >titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
> >
AIR_TIME
Dude, doesnt nintendo know how to make a new game?
every game you listed there is a remake of a SNES game...that lame
Eric Souza <kac...@bc.cybernex.net> wrote in article
<01bc4ad5$225de6c0$e175...@inigo.cybernex.net>...
>
>
> Mark Smith <ds...@cris.com> wrote in article
> <33554405...@news.concentric.net>...
> > >
> > I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the
> shattered
> > Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as
> the JAG
> > and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the
> only
> > "good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd
> party
> > titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
> >
> > I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there who will defend these
> titles but
> > the fact is they do NOT live up to what Mario and Waverace and
PilotWings
> set as
> > the introductory standard.
> >
> > Unless Nintendo loosens up a bit you will find a lot of N64's at garage
> sales
> > this summer.
> >
AIR_TIME
Sony also makes THEIR OWN CD's
they have their own CD factories.......sony has it made.......
William Barnes <mins...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<5j59u7$9...@winter.erols.com>...
> >I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the
shattered
> >Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as
the JAG
> >and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the
only
> >"good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd
party
> >titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
>
Leonardo Rodriguez
In <01bc4ad5$225de6c0$e175...@inigo.cybernex.net> "Eric Souza"
<kac...@bc.cybernex.net> writes:
>
>3. Nintendo knows how to lead consumers by the nose. There are many
with nostalgic memories of Nintendo games past. Nintendo knows this
and they'll use it. They've already begun. Doubtless, by the time
Zelda 64 has finally made it to the store shelves, they will have hyped
its release more than FF7. Meanwhile there's Starfox 64, Donkey Kong
64 and, waiting in the wings, FZero64 and Metroid 64. Will they be bad
games? probably not - Nintendo does have an image to uphold.
>
I think ya hit the spot when ya said 'Nintendo knows how to lead
consumers by the nose'. This is all true, and the States have proven:
if ya hype your product and manipulate the media, ya can sale anything.
Of course Nintendo has sold well by the fact they have *Mario*, which
3DO or the Jaguar don't have. Nintendo was very popular in the 80's,
and their name alone will assure -- to some degree -- a healthy dose of
a profitable marketing scheme. "Quality over quantity!" Of course if ya
believe this, you also may well believe in santa. Also, all those games
you mentioned will probably be very good, but don't ya think N is still
living in the 80's. I mean we have to move on, and moving on means
leaving old ideas behind and working toward the new. How many times is
N going to recycle old ideas and meshing them with newer graphic
engines. Mario64 is the only original game that really stands out. But
if ya played Mariokart and pilotwing on your SNES, you're going to see
the same thing on the N64. And future releases will be bound by this
code of ethics.
Gaming is not just a fad, is a hobby. And most of our generation was
raised through the Atari 2600, and to the glory days of the Nin. Under
this conditions, Nin. first home console lunch was successful partly
due to the originality of games like Zelda, Metroid, and of course, who
could forget, Mario. I played all this games and loved them, but as a
hobby gamer, finding myself playing this games over and over often
leaves an empty hole that could only be filled through new entreating
formulas in gameplay. So I move on, I move on to the best companion to
satisfy my gaming senses: New Games. Playing a *rehash* game is like
being a buoy floating in the same local point. *Rehash* is an
afiliation toward the old, and retracing our steps ain't necessarily
the interest of what gaming is all about. I agree, if used with
caution, a *rehash* can be the best thing, or equal to the original,
and bettermore, surpass the original idea. However, when N decides to
go by its strengths and *rehash* everything they done in the past, what
point is there for the gamer to confide in him/her the satisfaction of
new thrills? Gaming I find it much more complex...Often it can be
ego-driven, which explains why the gaming industry is dominated by an
all male community. Once a game is beaten, the polt of the game loses
interest and lust, and we move on to new challenges. We move on to
supplications derived from gaming itself, and look forward to newer
plots that will interest our fancy. How often to we trivialize old
ideas and move on to the new, leaving behind but our mere shadow of our
image? The bottom-line effect is this; We move on seeking new
experiences effecting our ability to adopt, and through this process of
weaving the existential conduct of living, we find what interests us
and what we're made of.
leogamer...
Chris
In article <335567...@cadvision.com> Jamie Dirom <dir...@cadvision.com> writes:
>From: Jamie Dirom <dir...@cadvision.com>
>Subject: Re: Why there are no games for Nintendo 64...
>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:57:41 -0600
>Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:07:40 GMT, Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont)
>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
>> >EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
>> >Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
>> >cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
>> >know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
>> >of cash. Here are some facts:
>> >1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
>> >2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
>> >3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
>> >4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
>> >Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
>> >Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
>> >but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
>> >
>And paying less for their games. This is from a recent trip to Wal Mart
>(one of the few places here in Calgary that carries all three systems):
>Saturn price range: 49.96-74.96 (not exact)
>PSX price range: 69.96-79.96 (not exact, doesn't include bargain games)
>N64 price range: 79.96-119.96 (no exaggerating, not exact)
>(All prices are Canadian $$$)
>All the basic ranges here are accurate, just not down to the last penny
>(probably within $1). I find this extremely scary. I don't actually
>*own* a game for my N64 yet. I'm living on rentals. The games are good,
>but I find it hard to justify spending this kind of money on a game
>($80, I could see, but not much above.. at $80, the only selections are
>Mario64 and Mario Kart).
>For the record, I seem to recall that they had $60 range PSX games on
>another occasion, and they were probably sold out this time around.
>Anyhow, don't have much more of a point than that. I think the numbers
>speak for themselves. Is the disparity so large in the States? I tend to
>ignore US prices when people post them because there's such a range, and
>people are often quoting prices from different stores (i.e. Best Buy vs.
>Electronics Boutique).
>Well, I guess that was kind of pointless :)
>-j
The most I've payed for a Sony game is $49.99 here in the states. I will not
pay over $49.99, I simply can't afford it. So far I've been lucky though
since there haven't been any games that I want that exceed that amount. But
the thing is if I held out for 3 months or so and I could get it $10-15
cheaper than it was when it premiered. For instance Legacy of Kain was $59
for a long time there, now it's $39-$49. I have 12 games and only paid $49
for 2 of them (Resident Evil and Tomb Raider). The rest I paid under $40 (e.g.
Soul Blade, WipeoutXL, Tekken 2, NHL97, Alien Trilogy) all NEW. Although
there is no way FF7 will be $49.99 so I guess I'll have to make an exception
;) Though Sony's new software pricing policy will help every PSX owner in the
long run.
Chris
Curt Gottwald
AIR_TIME <AIR_...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<01bc4b4c$f7061560$280fb8cd@jackallt>...
> Dude, doesnt nintendo know how to make a new game?
> every game you listed there is a remake of a SNES game...that lame
>
Just to clarify here, previous postings mentioned Zelda 64, Starfox 64,
Donkey Kong 64 and others... Sure you could ASSUME they are remakes....but
in name only I believe..
One perfect example is Mario 64... To me it's a completely new game with a
familiar face running the show.. Is that so bad? I don't think so!
Heck, if you look Nintendo isn't the only one doing game remakes.. (more
like sequels to games to me).. if a game is successful why not make a
sequel? It just makes sense!
Charles Miller Jr.
And then the light pops on as the advocate looks and sees that each other
has cross-posted to many news groups....... Exit stage left.... Fade to
black.
Jacob Wolkowitz
Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont) wrote:
>If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
>EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
>Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
>cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
>know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
>of cash. Here are some facts:
>1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
>2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
>3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
Excuse me but Cruisin USA(a horrible game) was released for the N64
and after three months, it still was #4 on EB's top 10 selling list.
If your going to make a bad game, it will still sell well on N64.(two
other games: KI Gold and MKT both did pretty well)
Jacob
Cheeseboy
>Just to clarify here, previous postings mentioned Zelda 64, Starfox 64,
>Donkey Kong 64 and others... Sure you could ASSUME they are remakes....but
>in name only I believe..
>
>One perfect example is Mario 64... To me it's a completely new game with a
>familiar face running the show.. Is that so bad? I don't think so!
>
>Heck, if you look Nintendo isn't the only one doing game remakes.. (more
>like sequels to games to me).. if a game is successful why not make a
>sequel? It just makes sense!
>
>
Hard to believe that most people are too dumb to understand that, isn't it?
Buitron
> If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
> EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> cost the companies to much to produce them.
PSX hard-core game fanatics like to point out any weak kinks with the N64
armor. Now that Next Gen echoes the same obvious problems people are now
starting react. It is the same insecurity that cause the PSX owners to put
down the N64 owners because of all the media hype. Use your head and stop
getting spoon fed. Hard-core gamers will have a problem with the N64
because of the lack of games. Most people who buy console games don't
care. They have never heard of Next Gen and they don't read this
newsgroup. They think that Tickle Me Elmo is great and go to all the
McDonalds to get the Tiny Beanie Babies. Note that I said most not all.
When they think of games they think Nintendo. The N64 is still outselling
all the game consoles with 6 million and climbing. The N64 despite the
cartridge will always out muscle the PSX. Third party developers admit
that the N64 is awesome and that the PSX can't play the N64 games. I am
talking graphic hardware not storage. I am not saying that the PSX is a
bad system because it is NOT even though it has a spotty reliability
record. The PSX is a good value. If you want to play alot of games buy a
PSX. If you want the latest state-of-the-art in gaming consoles, buy an
N64 and wait. You may be waiting a long time. As long as Nintendo makes
money things won't change much. That is the way of the capital world.
Most of all game developers showed up at the last Nintendo developers
conference. They have a long road ahead of them learning a totally
different but powerful system before they can even start writing a game.
The current developers who have written games admit that they still haven't
used and learned all the graphic capabilities of the N64. Hec, SGI can
even customize the microcode of the N64 processors! The best games will
eventually come you just have to let nature take its course.
chris
Jamie Dirom wrote:
>
> Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:07:40 GMT, Car...@countless-codes.com (Carlont)
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> > >Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> > >know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
> > >of cash. Here are some facts:
> > >1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
> > >2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
> > >3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
sarturn 55-75
sony 45-70
n64 73-99
Tax not included. There are also stores which sell used games.
What province do you live in??? Seems really high to me.
Jamie Dirom
chris wrote:
>
> Jamie Dirom wrote:
> > And paying less for their games. This is from a recent trip to Wal Mart
> > (one of the few places here in Calgary that carries all three systems):
> >
> > Saturn price range: 49.96-74.96 (not exact)
> > PSX price range: 69.96-79.96 (not exact, doesn't include bargain games)
> > N64 price range: 79.96-119.96 (no exaggerating, not exact)
> > (All prices are Canadian $$$)
> >
> > All the basic ranges here are accurate, just not down to the last penny
> > (probably within $1). I find this extremely scary. I don't actually
> > *own* a game for my N64 yet. I'm living on rentals. The games are good,
> > but I find it hard to justify spending this kind of money on a game
> > ($80, I could see, but not much above.. at $80, the only selections are
> > Mario64 and Mario Kart).
> >
> > For the record, I seem to recall that they had $60 range PSX games on
> > another occasion, and they were probably sold out this time around.
> >
> > Anyhow, don't have much more of a point than that. I think the numbers
> > speak for themselves. Is the disparity so large in the States? I tend to
> > ignore US prices when people post them because there's such a range, and
> > people are often quoting prices from different stores (i.e. Best Buy vs.
> > Electronics Boutique).
> >
> > Well, I guess that was kind of pointless :)
> >
> > -j
> I live in canada and your prices are wrong.
No. They're not. I apologize for being blunt, but they're Wal-Mart's
prices, so I'm pretty sure they're nation-wide numbers. I didn't shop
around, and this was just one store, so you can argue about what it
means. There is no doubt that I could find N64 games for cheaper (but
probably not at chain stores such as Toys 'R Us or Zellers--who both
sell at or around list), but the comparison wasn't based on bargain
hunting but on the prices of games at one outlet.
> sarturn 55-75
> sony 45-70
> n64 73-99
> Tax not included. There are also stores which sell used games.
> What province do you live in??? Seems really high to me.
I'm wondering where you live that you can't get lower price-ranged games
for Saturn (Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Baku Baku) for $50 :). I'm almost
certain that the PSX price range listed in my comparison does dip lower,
but I can't be 100% sure. However, all N64 games were in stock, and
their prices are also listed in their flyer. The numbers are admittedly
high, but that's the way they are. Why would anyone in their right mind
pay $119 for Doom 64 or Mortal Kombat Trilogy?
Just for the record, what store are your prices from? I'd be interested
to know where they're from if they're not from 'all over.'
To summarize: yes. I am aware that there are lower prices for games, but
that wasn't the point. I can find Saturn and Playstation games at
WalMart for $30--but these are bargain priced games and therefore an
unfair comparison. I could shop around and find Mario 64 for less than
$79 (I think), but again, that's a moot point because it ends up
comparing different pricing policies. My intent was to compare the
prices of new (or still premium-priced) games at the same location.
That's all. I'm not trying to bend the truth or spread lies.
Where are you in Canada? Where do you shop for games (and where can you
shop for games that you don't go??)
Thanks,
-j
Ken Cobb
On 17 Apr 1997 16:37:14 GMT, "AIR_TIME" <AIR_...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>Dude, doesnt nintendo know how to make a new game?
>every game you listed there is a remake of a SNES game...that lame
>
>
I do hope that we see a number of new and original games
on the N64. So far, it seems like the hardware can handle
a lot of different things.
However, some of the old games are great. I loved FZERO
on the SNES. If they could keep the speed and make the
graphics up to N64 standards, I'll buy a sequel in a second.
I have a Saturn, Playstation and an N64. I'm don't have any
bias on any system. If I see a game I want, I will pick it up.
I do wish that there were more games on the N64, but that
will come in time. Doesn't anybody remember how sparse the
games for the SNES were at first? It took a while, but the SNES
got rolling and there were some truly great games.
Ken
Kristopher Huynh
In article <01bc4b8d$a41a7300$fee8...@wpg-01.escape.ca>, "Curt Gottwald" <cu...@escape.ca> writes:
>AIR_TIME <AIR_...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
><01bc4b4c$f7061560$280fb8cd@jackallt>...
>> Dude, doesnt nintendo know how to make a new game?
>> every game you listed there is a remake of a SNES game...that lame
>>
>
>Just to clarify here, previous postings mentioned Zelda 64, Starfox 64,
>Donkey Kong 64 and others... Sure you could ASSUME they are remakes....but
>in name only I believe..
>
>One perfect example is Mario 64... To me it's a completely new game with a
>familiar face running the show.. Is that so bad? I don't think so!
>
>Heck, if you look Nintendo isn't the only one doing game remakes.. (more
>like sequels to games to me).. if a game is successful why not make a
>sequel? It just makes sense!
There's no way you can convince me that the Metroid games were sequels. How
many times does Nintendo want us to kill the Mother Brain before they make a
real sequel.
Kristopher Huynh * We're sorry, the reality you
st...@jetson.uh.edu * have dialed is currently not
kr...@cs.uh.edu * in service. Please consult
st...@bayou.uh.edu * your local diety and try
http://www.cs.uh.edu/~kris/ * again.
James Meade
As cool as it would be to be able to do, you will never be able to buy a
programmable version of the N64. This is another point in favor of the
Play Station, not only does it have commercial support like crazy, it also
has private support going on in the background as well!
8==8 Bones3D 8==8
Cryptic Bug
In article <bones3d-1904...@news.winternet.com>,
conversation, a fellow and I were discussing the possibility. We
figured the whole point of the Yaroze was to make the PSX a virtually
self-sustaining market, once all the developers moved to PSX2, and
nothing new was coming.
We also figured that the 64DD is The ULTIMATE system for
making your own games. See, what they could do, is release a Disk for
each engine (3D like Mario, Flight, Racing, fighting, SideScroller,
RPG, etc) and/or combinations of several elements into a general
package. This engine and starter kit would be in the ROM portion of
the disks, and the world you create would be in the RAM portion. It
would also have a painter, and D/L-conversion software, so you can
have original textures, as well as the packaged ones. You could just
use the predesigned engine of your choice, edit the responses to
buttons (custom control), change the movements (that'd be the hard
part, and the main reason many examples would be included), change the
textures, and edit the maps, setup a scoring system (if you choose)
and you've got a totally original game, based on a popular Genre. Oh,
music. Like I said, many examples, limited editor, and converter for
MID files (after all, there's going to be a sample chip in the 64DD,
they should be able to find an adequate match). Add in a story, and,
Tada! Instant (well, not quite) original game!
Players would be able to upload their worlds (as a single
file, of course) and others with the same disk-engine could D/L them.
Either that, or have a copy of the engine (no need for the examples,
in the game. It could work) within the game, so anyone with a 64DD
disk that's either Blank, or used for D/Ling Demo's/Classics could
play them, because to the 64DD, the game would just come across as a
Normal Demo game. If anything like this happens, it will be to send
off the N64, and not anytime soon. Also, Point in favor of the PSX?
Not really, as the games have to be within 4mb, or something, cutting
out ALL PSX's major advantages: the Games can't be very complex,
that's for sure. Also, it's not any easier to program for, and very
expensive so very few people support it, and it's too "Legal" (what,
ship it to Sony, pay a royalty, have them mass-produce it, and hope
people buy it? With all the Profesional software out there? No too
likely. Has anyone actually Done this already, and if so, what was
the game like?)
The 64DD Game Construction, OTOH, would be fairly cheap
(Probably $150+-) as it's just a regualar Disk, and entirely
self-contained. It would also be easy for just about anyone to make a
pretty good game, and very easy for semi-professional game designers
to make an excellent game, leaving Nintendo basically free to work on
N64II, and making sure 64DD owners can always get themselves a New
game, just by Logging on and D/Ling it. For the record, I don't
expect any of this to happen, but the potential is FAR greater than
anything Yaroze has to offer.
--
Cryptic Bug
Cr...@vcn.bc.ca
Charles Miller Jr.
> Hmmm... I wonder? In a Massive, all encompassing E-Mail
> conversation, a fellow and I were discussing the possibility. We
> figured the whole point of the Yaroze was to make the PSX a virtually
> self-sustaining market, once all the developers moved to PSX2, and
> nothing new was coming.
But, the thing is that the Yaroze can't really make games. 4mb? The
Yaroze is for fun.
>
>Also, it's not any easier to program for, and very
>
The PSX is not any easier to program for? Proof?
> For the record, I don't expect any of this to happen, but the potential
is
> FAR greater than anything Yaroze has to offer.
Agreed. The Yaroze (IMHO) is a joke. Also, Nintendo letting ANYTHING out
of the bag would be the first sign of the end of the world.
Eric Souza
Cryptic Bug <cr...@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in article
<4fZWzMXr/wmD0...@vcn.bc.ca>...
> Hmmm... I wonder? In a Massive, all encompassing E-Mail
> conversation, a fellow and I were discussing the possibility. We
> figured the whole point of the Yaroze was to make the PSX a virtually
> self-sustaining market, once all the developers moved to PSX2, and
> nothing new was coming.
That Doesn't make sense - I can't just upload a game onto the Net that I
created with the Yaroze - only other Yaroze owners would be able to use it.
If the Yaroze keeps the PSX alive after the PSX2 rolls around, that's just
a side benefit. Nobody knows how the Yaroze will figure into the PSX
formula, not even Sony.
> We also figured that the 64DD is The ULTIMATE system for
> making your own games. See, what they could do, is release a Disk for
> each engine (3D like Mario, Flight, Racing, fighting, SideScroller,
> RPG, etc) and/or combinations of several elements into a general
> package. This engine and starter kit would be in the ROM portion of
> the disks, and the world you create would be in the RAM portion. It
> would also have a painter, and D/L-conversion software, so you can
> have original textures, as well as the packaged ones. You could just
> use the predesigned engine of your choice, edit the responses to
> buttons (custom control), change the movements (that'd be the hard
> part, and the main reason many examples would be included), change the
> textures, and edit the maps, setup a scoring system (if you choose)
> and you've got a totally original game, based on a popular Genre. Oh,
> music. Like I said, many examples, limited editor, and converter for
> MID files (after all, there's going to be a sample chip in the 64DD,
> they should be able to find an adequate match). Add in a story, and,
> Tada! Instant (well, not quite) original game!
"predesigned engine..." Oh yeah, this sounds real original. Sounds like
template based games, not "original" as you put it.
> Players would be able to upload their worlds (as a single
> file, of course) and others with the same disk-engine could D/L them.
> Either that, or have a copy of the engine (no need for the examples,
> in the game. It could work) within the game, so anyone with a 64DD
> disk that's either Blank, or used for D/Ling Demo's/Classics could
> play them, because to the 64DD, the game would just come across as a
> Normal Demo game. If anything like this happens, it will be to send
> off the N64, and not anytime soon. Also, Point in favor of the PSX?
> Not really, as the games have to be within 4mb, or something, cutting
> out ALL PSX's major advantages: the Games can't be very complex,
> that's for sure. Also, it's not any easier to program for, and very
Okay, so games have to fit in PSX memory. Doesn't the code for a game like
Tomb Raider have to fit in PSX memory so there's enough room for the sound,
graphics, level layout AND the game engine? So maybe you can only produce
a game like TR with one level. Go ahead and make another level that has to
be loaded separately. Not the most satisfying solution but it gets the job
done.
> expensive so very few people support it, and it's too "Legal" (what,
What the hell does "few people support it" mean? Who has to support the
Yaroze? It plays the same games as the PSX, no problem!!!
> ship it to Sony, pay a royalty, have them mass-produce it, and hope
> people buy it? With all the Profesional software out there? No too
> likely. Has anyone actually Done this already, and if so, what was
> the game like?)
I doubt it would be one Yaroze game, but rather a compilation of the
"best". Sony has alluded to this themselves. There wouldn't be any
royalty involved, but probably the rights to the game would have to be
passed to Sony.
> The 64DD Game Construction, OTOH, would be fairly cheap
> (Probably $150+-) as it's just a regualar Disk, and entirely
> self-contained. It would also be easy for just about anyone to make a
> pretty good game, and very easy for semi-professional game designers
> to make an excellent game, leaving Nintendo basically free to work on
> N64II, and making sure 64DD owners can always get themselves a New
> game, just by Logging on and D/Ling it. For the record, I don't
> expect any of this to happen, but the potential is FAR greater than
> anything Yaroze has to offer.
> --
But these would all be template-based games as you've described the setup.
How many of this type of game would you be able to stand? And I thought
Nintendo cared about Quality - why would they just suddenly hand N64
development over to "semi-professional game designers"?
Lewis
> Gaming is not just a fad, is a hobby. And most of our generation was
> raised through the Atari 2600, and to the glory days of the Nin.
How old are you? I grew up on the NES. I guess that most people here are
older, that's why there it seems that most are PSX fans.
Cryptic Bug
In article <01bc4ded$0a9ed2e0$3dcaae80@cwmiller>,
"Charles Miller Jr." <cwmill...@studetns.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> But, the thing is that the Yaroze can't really make games. 4mb?
> The Yaroze is for fun.
PC development software that allows you to program games for PSX. So
you're right, IT can't make games, but that's what it's supposed to be
used for, right? I agree, anything on a Console, including Yaroze, is
for fun, in the end.
> >Also, it's not any easier to program for, and very
> The PSX is not any easier to program for? Proof?
That's not quite what I meant. The Yaroze doesn't make programming
PSX any easier than Programming for PC or MAC or anything like that.
Basically, its market is for real game designers only, professional
or no, because it doesn't make it simple enough for the most hard core
gamer to make their own games, let alone the general gaming populace
(Game developers/Programmers aside).
> > For the record, I don't expect any of this to happen, but the
> > potential is FAR greater than anything Yaroze has to offer.
> Agreed. The Yaroze (IMHO) is a joke. Also, Nintendo letting
> ANYTHING out of the bag would be the first sign of the end of the
> world.
Whooo! You said it! I wonder why Nintendo can't release just a BIT
more information? All part of their master strategy, I imagine. I
suppose letting out info (at least for games) slowly and steadily
keeps the hype up, because if they released it all in one blob, people
would be excited, but since nothing else was forthcoming, talk would
die down and sales would be lower. Personally, I wonder if it makes a
difference? I always know what games I'll buy a month or several
before it's even released, and I know which ones I'll stay away from,
as well.
--
Cryptic Bug
Cr...@vcn.bc.ca
Cryptic Bug
In article <01bc4e08$0b898cc0$db75...@inigo.cybernex.net>,
"Eric Souza" <kac...@bc.cybernex.net> wrote:
> That Doesn't make sense - I can't just upload a game onto the Net
> that I created with the Yaroze - only other Yaroze owners would be
> able to use it.
Of course you couldn't just upload it, because PSX has no way to D/L
it! I though all PSX's could play Yaroze-created games?
> If the Yaroze keeps the PSX alive after the PSX2 rolls around,
> that's just a side benefit. Nobody knows how the Yaroze will figure
> into the PSX formula, not even Sony.
Personally, and IMHO, I feel that was the Idea all along: to keep the
PSX user base happy after all the "Big" developers move on.
> "predesigned engine..." Oh yeah, this sounds real original. Sounds like
> template based games, not "original" as you put it.
That is indeed what I said. How different is TR from Mario? They use
the same BASIC engine, just switched around a few things. Also, as I
said, if anything like this ever DID happen, it would be near the end
of N64's life, probably a year or so after N64II's release (meaning
2000-2001), and pretty well all genre's will have been thought up
already, and all that will remain is combinations of several
pre-thought up genres, and better games on the same concepts.
Originality doesn't really play a part here, and I apologize if I made
you think that I thought this was a major benefit. Also, I DID say
the templates are to make it easier for MORE people to understand and
use, and that the best designers would add-on to it, change it, and
combine it with other genres, perhaps even D/Ling editable patches
that accomplish this as simply as the rest. The originality will lie
in the storyline, control, characters, graphics, sound, creative use
of writability, and combining of different game elements. FOR
example, a fighter-RPG, a very limited appeal game, as people who
generally prefer Fighters (heavy action) don't care for RPG's (no
action, tedious, thinking game), and vice-versa. Say you have a
normal overworld done FF style, but when an enemy appears, instead of
fighting it (or them) with numbers, you would fight realtime. This
was loosely done with Zelda II, but not terribly heavily. I'd say a
game like this would be pretty original, though it just used templates
to make it's creation simple.
<snip>
as far as I was told, you were limited to 4mb, and couldn't go beyond
that, just by making another data file or anything. Still, 4mb IS
plenty for a fairly good sized game, especially older style RPG's and
sidescrollers.
> > expensive so very few people support it, and it's too "Legal" (what,
> What the hell does "few people support it" mean? Who has to support the
> Yaroze? It plays the same games as the PSX, no problem!!!
It means, few people have one. How many people do you know that have
one? How many games built with Yaroze have been released? More
importantly, were they any good at all?
> I doubt it would be one Yaroze game, but rather a compilation of the
> "best". Sony has alluded to this themselves. There wouldn't be any
> royalty involved, but probably the rights to the game would have to be
> passed to Sony.
That's what I figured. A compilation, with rights passed to sony, but
I also think Sony will take a fair share of the profits (if any),
whether by an official "Royalty" or the same thing under a different,
perhaps unofficial name.
> But these would all be template-based games as you've described the setup.
> How many of this type of game would you be able to stand? And I thought
> Nintendo cared about Quality - why would they just suddenly hand N64
> development over to "semi-professional game designers"?
I'm sure you've read above, and WHY people could stand this sort of
thing. Again, it's a specific thing, even easier to wade through, B/C
the games wouldn't be cluttering a shelf, they'd be arrayed online
somewhere (titles, genre, basic description), and when you click on
the title, a more in-depth description appears, probably with
screenshots. It means Quality AND quantity, the former in "Real"
games that you buy in a store, the latter in games designed with this
mythical product. Also, as I said, I doubt anything like this will
happen, and certainly only after everything possible on N64 has been
tried already, and people just want more of the same, not originality
like we want now.
--
Cryptic Bug
Cr...@vcn.bc.ca
Charles Miller Jr.
> > But, the thing is that the Yaroze can't really make games. 4mb?
> > The Yaroze is for fun.
> What IS Yaroze, exactly? From what I undersand, it's a new PSX with
> PC development software that allows you to program games for PSX. So
> you're right, IT can't make games, but that's what it's supposed to be
> used for, right? I agree, anything on a Console, including Yaroze, is
> for fun, in the end.
Basically it is a PSX that you can U/L little games to. It is a hobbiests
game system, much like the c64 was. Not saying that the C64 was only that,
but it was the only one, I have seen, that was as easy for a hobbiest to
make good games on.
> > >Also, it's not any easier to program for, and very
> > The PSX is not any easier to program for? Proof?
> That's not quite what I meant. The Yaroze doesn't make programming
> PSX any easier than Programming for PC or MAC or anything like that.
You were saying that the PSX wasn't any easier to program for than the N64.
> Basically, its market is for real game designers only, professional
> or no, because it doesn't make it simple enough for the most hard core
> gamer to make their own games, let alone the general gaming populace
> (Game developers/Programmers aside).
The "most hard core" gamer would be the ideal person to make games for it.
Dude, all you need to know is some C and a few basic ideas about 3D
modeling. You are using THEIR functions for the display. That, designing
graphics routines, is the hard part of it all really.
> > > For the record, I don't expect any of this to happen, but the
> > > potential is FAR greater than anything Yaroze has to offer.
> > Agreed. The Yaroze (IMHO) is a joke. Also, Nintendo letting
> > ANYTHING out of the bag would be the first sign of the end of the
> > world.
> Whooo! You said it! I wonder why Nintendo can't release just a BIT
> more information? All part of their master strategy, I imagine. I
> suppose letting out info (at least for games) slowly and steadily
> keeps the hype up, because if they released it all in one blob, people
> would be excited, but since nothing else was forthcoming, talk would
> die down and sales would be lower. Personally, I wonder if it makes a
> difference? I always know what games I'll buy a month or several
> before it's even released, and I know which ones I'll stay away from,
> as well.
I think that the N64 users are not out in the cold. The system WILL have
many great games, it's just that they aren't there yet. I wish they would
get cracking and bring some out before I spend ALL my money on other
things!
Cryptic Bug
In article <01bc4e9a$76438d80$3dcaae80@cwmiller>,
"Charles Miller Jr." <cwmi...@studetns.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > > >Also, it's not any easier to program for, and very
> > > The PSX is not any easier to program for? Proof?
> > That's not quite what I meant. The Yaroze doesn't make programming
> > PSX any easier than Programming for PC or MAC or anything like that.
> You were saying that the PSX wasn't any easier to program for than the N64.
nowhere. It was a bad place for it, and could be interpreted in
several ways, but as I said, that's not at all what I meant.
> The "most hard core" gamer would be the ideal person to make games for it.
> Dude, all you need to know is some C and a few basic ideas about 3D
> modeling. You are using THEIR functions for the display. That, designing
> graphics routines, is the hard part of it all really.
I find the hardest part learning what other people's functions do, but
then I tend to try do "dissect" everything instead of just using them,
which isn't necessary at all. Also, I heard you still have to do a
majority of the work (duh), and the functions are just limited
graphics and sound functions. I suppose there'd be an input function
as well, but if it's anything like PC bios... Sorry, that was nasty
and uncalled for, and undoubtedly false. What about split screen? Is
there functions for that? At least you don't have to deal with memory
management -- Because you have to put it ALL in memory at once (jab,
jab :') Oh yes, I do agree making the graphics functions is one of
the hardest parts, if not THE hardest, but that falls in with other
low-level functions. After that, making the actual game is a breeze.
> I think that the N64 users are not out in the cold. The system WILL have
> many great games, it's just that they aren't there yet. I wish they would
> get cracking and bring some out before I spend ALL my money on other
> things!
One more time! Trouble with me is, I've only got limited fundage
anyway, and am going to be forced to choose between great games; I
WILL buy Starfox and Zelda, as well as 64DD (and Mother III), and I'd
really like F-Zero, DKC, Extreme G, Sonic Wings Assault, Clayfighter,
Ogre Battle, etc. Also, I MUST get Dream, but I'm not yet dure how
I'll manage it :'( Oh well. I still wish they'd hurry up.
--
Cryptic Bug
Cr...@vcn.bc.ca
Eric Souza
Cryptic Bug <cr...@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in article
<QQuWzMXr/4LH0...@vcn.bc.ca>...
> In article <01bc4e08$0b898cc0$db75...@inigo.cybernex.net>,
> "Eric Souza" <kac...@bc.cybernex.net> wrote:
>
> > That Doesn't make sense - I can't just upload a game onto the Net
> > that I created with the Yaroze - only other Yaroze owners would be
> > able to use it.
> Of course you couldn't just upload it, because PSX has no way to D/L
> it! I though all PSX's could play Yaroze-created games?
The Yaroze system allows you to develop games for the PSX format. The
majority of the development is done on your PC or MAC with the finished
product being uploaded into Yaroze memory for testing and/or playing.
Yaroze games could certainly be uploaded to the net and downloaded by other
Yaroze owners. Perhaps Sony will release a modem for the PSX to allow it
to download these games as well.
> > If the Yaroze keeps the PSX alive after the PSX2 rolls around,
> > that's just a side benefit. Nobody knows how the Yaroze will figure
> > into the PSX formula, not even Sony.
> Personally, and IMHO, I feel that was the Idea all along: to keep the
> PSX user base happy after all the "Big" developers move on.
Maybe...I tend to buy the idea that it's an attempt to inject new blood
into the game developer community more readily.
>
> > "predesigned engine..." Oh yeah, this sounds real original. Sounds
like
> > template based games, not "original" as you put it.
> That is indeed what I said. How different is TR from Mario? They use
> the same BASIC engine, just switched around a few things. Also, as I
> said, if anything like this ever DID happen, it would be near the end
> of N64's life, probably a year or so after N64II's release (meaning
a bit of snipping here...
Cryptic, your initial statements seemed to suggest that originality was a
key factor in your envisioning of N64 home development. I might have
misunderstood. I can appreciate your theory for N64 development but I
don't know that i can truly buy into it. I for one would become very sick
of the template stuff very shortly. I'm not suggesting any better will
come of the Yaroze, only time will tell.
>
> <snip>
> as far as I was told, you were limited to 4mb, and couldn't go beyond
> that, just by making another data file or anything. Still, 4mb IS
> plenty for a fairly good sized game, especially older style RPG's and
> sidescrollers.
The two files wouldn't be linked in any way, other than that they use the
same game engine code. For all intents and purposes, they would be
separate games with the same engine. I was only pointing out that
developers can always find workarounds for the shortcomings of their
platform of choice.
> I'm sure you've read above, and WHY people could stand this sort of
> thing. Again, it's a specific thing, even easier to wade through, B/C
> the games wouldn't be cluttering a shelf, they'd be arrayed online
> somewhere (titles, genre, basic description), and when you click on
> the title, a more in-depth description appears, probably with
> screenshots. It means Quality AND quantity, the former in "Real"
> games that you buy in a store, the latter in games designed with this
> mythical product. Also, as I said, I doubt anything like this will
> happen, and certainly only after everything possible on N64 has been
> tried already, and people just want more of the same, not originality
> like we want now.
Again, I don't know if I buy this. The "final years" of a system often
spawn some of the most original games on the system. Look at games like
Gunstar Heroes and Earthworm Jim on the Genesis (personal favorites).
There's no reason why originality should die. But this cookie cutter
method you propose wouldn't allow an "intimate" enough connection with the
system to allow anyone to flex their mental muscle.
Charles Miller Jr.
> > The "most hard core" gamer would be the ideal person to make games for
it.
> > Dude, all you need to know is some C and a few basic ideas about 3D
> > modeling. You are using THEIR functions for the display. That,
designing
> > graphics routines, is the hard part of it all really.
> I find the hardest part learning what other people's functions do, but
> then I tend to try do "dissect" everything instead of just using them,
> which isn't necessary at all.
What? You read the text and use the code. Have you ever programmed in
OpenGL? This is much what it is like.
> Also, I heard you still have to do a
> majority of the work (duh), and the functions are just limited
> graphics and sound functions. I suppose there'd be an input function
> as well, but if it's anything like PC bios... Sorry, that was nasty
> and uncalled for, and undoubtedly false. What about split screen? Is
> there functions for that?
You mean Clipping windows? Yep.
> At least you don't have to deal with memory
> management -- Because you have to put it ALL in memory at once (jab,
> jab :') Oh yes, I do agree making the graphics functions is one of
> the hardest parts, if not THE hardest, but that falls in with other
> low-level functions. After that, making the actual game is a breeze.
That, is the Yaroze.
> > I think that the N64 users are not out in the cold. The system WILL
have
> > many great games, it's just that they aren't there yet. I wish they
would
> > get cracking and bring some out before I spend ALL my money on other
> > things!
> One more time! Trouble with me is, I've only got limited fundage
> anyway, and am going to be forced to choose between great games; I
> WILL buy Starfox and Zelda, as well as 64DD (and Mother III), and I'd
> really like F-Zero, DKC, Extreme G, Sonic Wings Assault, Clayfighter,
> Ogre Battle, etc. Also, I MUST get Dream, but I'm not yet dure how
> I'll manage it :'( Oh well. I still wish they'd hurry up.
Yep.
Eggman 64
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------15BC7E8464CF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
HAAAAHAAA!!
I Love Starfox!!!
--------------15BC7E8464CF
Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="StarFox64.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="StarFox64.jpg"
<encoded_portion_removed>
4683J6n/2Q==
--------------15BC7E8464CF--
Edward Davis, Jr.
Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> I think that the N64 users are not out in the cold. The system WILL have
> many great games, it's just that they aren't there yet. I wish they would
> get cracking and bring some out before I spend ALL my money on other
> things!
Heh. I haven't heard "get cracking" in a long time. :)
-Ed
Cryptic Bug
In article <01bc4ece$59907480$5875...@inigo.cybernex.net>,
"Eric Souza" <kac...@bc.cybernex.net> wrote:
> I for one would become very sick of the template stuff very shortly.
> I'm not suggesting any better will come of the Yaroze, only time
> will tell.
programmers, whereas my hypothetical 64DD dev-kit would be basically
for anyone. I know people with really creative imaginations, but they
don't know a line of C. Same with artists. The ultimate would be
someone what they're best at on a single game, like real developers.
> Again, I don't know if I buy this. The "final years" of a system often
> spawn some of the most original games on the system. Look at games like
> Gunstar Heroes and Earthworm Jim on the Genesis (personal favorites).
> There's no reason why originality should die. But this cookie cutter
> method you propose wouldn't allow an "intimate" enough connection with the
> system to allow anyone to flex their mental muscle.
I don't know about Gunstar Hero's, but Earthworm Jim? Come on, he's
hust another multi-scroller! He could be done with a multiscrolling
template pretty easily. As I said, you just change the characters and
items. Essentially, it IS a new game, just the same genre. Also, did
you read my post about where the originality would be found? Not in
te genre, but the clever Mix of different styles, and creative use of
writability perhaps, and of course different characters, powereups,
weapons, and Story are big ones, but another would be difficulty.
Someonce could make a game pretty much like Mario64, but with
different characters (maybe multiplayer), different enemies, different
maps, different objectives (like Doraemon/Mario), only make it really
hard. Wouldn't you see this as an original game? Surely you would,
if you consider EWJ original. Obviously this has it's strengths and
weaknesses (Like the N64 vs. PSX debate :'> ) The strength of Yaroze
is complete control, the strength of this DDdev Kit would be
mass-market appeal, simple faster design, lots of space to work with,
writability, and price. I'd STILL pick the DDdev kit personally,
though I suppose "real" programmers wouldn't. Ahm, also, there's no
reason there couldn't be a separate kit for actually programming (like
Yaroze) the templates, so get both, and theoretically you COULD design
totally original games (though I think genre meshing etc. would be
quite original enough).
--
Cryptic Bug
Cr...@vcn.bc.ca
Charles Miller Jr.
Um, maybe that is the problem? Maybe they've all gone cracking? :)
Alex Chapman
> As cool as it would be to be able to do, you will never be able to buy a
> programmable version of the N64. This is another point in favor of the
> Play Station, not only does it have commercial support like crazy, it also
> has private support going on in the background as well!
Well, this is interesting, but you have to keep in mind that there's no
distribution method for anything that comes out of the Yarouze, unless a
developer actually picked it up. Which is doubtful.
If Next Generation/n64.com didn't jump the gun on their modem
announcement, then the 64DD will include a modem (for those of you who
don't know, yamauchi, of all people, leaked it), which means we have (a) a
writable storage medium and (b) a cheap, accessible distribution method.
Sure, Nintendo may have some ornery ass proprietary transfer software and
make you call up some "The Nintendo Network" crap, but you have to admit
that the hacks to get data from a computer to the 64DD would be a helluva
lot easier than burning a CD-R or using a cart copier. This could be used
for things far more interesting than software piracy, (but that's easy to
beat anyway, if you use a cartridge as a dongle (hardware key)) if things
fell in the direction of people cobbling together unofficial development
kits for the machine.
I guess it'd take longer for shareware and garage demos came out on the
n64 than it would for the average pc to end up with more graphics power
than the console, but the idea is still pretty cool.
Buitron
Lewis <lre...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<01bc4e64$b590e7c0$09d945cf@default>...
In case you haven't noticed this is a cross-post message.
Charles Miller Jr.
Looks pretty good. How does it play? Hopefully better than the last one.
Eggman 64 <AR...@rullf2.MedFac.LeidenUniv.nl> wrote in article
<335C87...@rullf2.MedFac.LeidenUniv.nl>...
> HAAAAHAAA!!
> I Love Starfox!!!
>
Bo Diddly
if you read further into the nextgen mag, you will see around 20 games that
are in development. it takes time for companies to jump onto the bandwagon
for new things (ie. making n64 games), and it's starting to happen, albeit
slower than we would like. the system is more powerful than any on the
market, and it finally gives game companies the chance to make outrageous
games that were never possible on platforms such as the saturn or psx. it
took over 2 years for shadows of the empire to be made. when you have to
put so much time into developing games that are far above any games
previously made, you can't expect for games just to be wipped out every
month (hell, psx was coming out with that psx that lets you program your
own games, showing one just how simple they can be to make to an
experienced development team). as for third party support, it has it.
Just take a look at any recent gaming mag that is not nocking nintendo, and
you'll see the many many games that are in development by 3rd party
companies.
As for the 3rd party games that have already been released, Lucasarts SOTE
was a great game, being only the third game (I think 3rd) developed. They
were working on it for 2 years before the n64 was released on sgi stations
having no clue as to whether ot not the n64 was ever going to be released,
much less actually living up to the power that it predicted. So when
people say that SOTE sucks, they haven't really a clue as to what could
have been if it had not been one of the premiere titles that was really
just testing the systems capabilities. Then there's Turok, which is just
great if you still can stand 3d shooters--a much better game than quake as
far as the engine goes( I realize quake wins points with its multiplayer
support and the fact that it comes from a cd with an 80mb install), the
people look real, the monsters are fun---it is far from a b or c calibur
release. EA also did a great job with Fifa 64, it rocks any other fifa
game previously on the market for any platform---another non b or c
quality game.
Nintendo is not even near to falling into the same trap as the Jag. The
jaguar sucked, the few games sucked, who the hell would want to develop for
it? The n64 eats all the other platforms for lunch (yes, cartridge was a
bad choice imho, but when the 64dd comes out, their problem will be
solved).
Anyway, nintendo is not going anywhere but up, so these petty arguments and
insults trying to down the n64 are just tiresome chatter that get quite
old. How many of you people are going to or say "duh, nintendo sucks,
carts suck, their lack of games suck"? It's been said over and over again
by many simpeltons who have nothing better to do than to try to knock down
something that they know nothing about.
> I agree with you and EGM (and NEXT GEN Magazine - the one with the
shattered
> Mario on the cover) Nintendo is dooming themselves to the same fate as
the JAG
> and 3DO. Without 3rd party support you cannot survive and so far the
only
> "good" titles for N64 have been in-house Nintendo titles. The few 3rd
party
> titles that have been release are all B and C calibur releases.
>
> I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there who will defend these
titles but
> the fact is they do NOT live up to what Mario and Waverace and PilotWings
set as
> the introductory standard.
>
> Unless Nintendo loosens up a bit you will find a lot of N64's at garage
sales
> this summer.
>
Scott
In article <QQuWzMXr/4LH0...@vcn.bc.ca>, cr...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
>as far as I was told, you were limited to 4mb, and couldn't go beyond
>that, just by making another data file or anything. Still, 4mb IS
>plenty for a fairly good sized game, especially older style RPG's and
>sidescrollers.
>
It's split up into 512k sound 1.5 graphics and 2.5 code (may have gotten
code and data reversed). Good enough to play around at doing basic one
level things. Still not worth $750 ($900 for me since I'd have to buy
CodeWarrior with it for the Mac).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Maxwell - scottm (at) nic (dot) com
"Good morning doctors. I have taken the liberty of removing Windows 95
from my hard drive" - What Arthur C. Clarke wishes HAL had said.
Scott
In article <01bc4ece$59907480$5875...@inigo.cybernex.net>, "Eric Souza"
<kac...@bc.cybernex.net> wrote:
>Perhaps Sony will release a modem for the PSX to allow it to download
these >games as well.
>
Ah, there's the problem. You need that key card to play the games. Sony
doesn't want possibly good independently made games (small or not) eating
any profits at all. If they were as cool as they'd like everyone to believe
for releasing the Yaroze they would make the games playable on ALL PSX
systems.
Buitron
James Meade <bon...@winternet.com> wrote in article
<bones3d-1904...@news.winternet.com>...
> As cool as it would be to be able to do, you will never be able to buy a
> programmable version of the N64. This is another point in favor of the
> Play Station, not only does it have commercial support like crazy, it
also
> has private support going on in the background as well!
>
> 8==8 Bones3D 8==8
>
David Matthew Wood
Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
>
> Looks pretty good. How does it play? Hopefully better than the last one.
>
I thought the play was perfect in the last one. What was it you didn't
like?
Charles Miller Jr.
It was too loose. I hated it. BTW, I owned a SNES then... :) I'm a picky
gamer I guess. And, the games I like you might not... :) I love Ninja
Gaiden and SOR2 and the sort.
David Matthew Wood <dmw...@erols.com> wrote in article
<335E88...@erols.com>...
P-Bone?
Well, not really. People have to *buy* the 64dd first, before we will
see real support from the third-party companies. The Bulky Drive is a
good idea, but it won't amount to much if it doesn't have any games for
it. And, add-ons , historically speaking, have never been phenominal
sucsesses.
P-Bone? .
BNG . .
SGV 818
Scott
In article <5jfutg$q...@svna0001.clipper.ssb.com>, mat...@ssga.ssb.com
(Luigi Mattera) wrote:
>: What the hell does "few people support it" mean? Who has to support the
>: Yaroze? It plays the same games as the PSX, no problem!!!
>
> It plays more than the PSX does. The Yaroze has no country lockouts.
>
But you can't play Yaroze games on anything but a Yaroze. So all the
millions of PSX owners people may want to impress can't be until Sony picks
out what THEY like and releases a cd. Think about it. The Yaroze could have
offered demo coders something incredible to share with everyone. Not so
though. Sad really.
> That is the crux of the arguement. Nintendo would never allow
>"garage" developers.
>
Neither would Sony. I still suspect that's part of the reason for not
allowing Yaroze games to play on regular PSX.
Eggman 64
Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
>
> Looks pretty good. How does it play? Hopefully better than the last one.
>
It now has a 4-player mode, ther are submarine and tanklevels and
it has THE most mindblowing graphics ever seen on a homeconsole!
Simply the best shooter ever.
Go to N64hq, in a jap mag all the writers gave it 9/10.
Eggman 64
David Matthew Wood wrote:
>
> Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >
> > Looks pretty good. How does it play? Hopefully better than the last one.
> >
>
> like?
When the game came out, there were two groups formed.
One group thought it was the most amazing game ever (that was my
opinion), the other group thought it was a load of rubbish.
Can't argue taste can you?
It was repeatitive, but so is Doom and if you like what's repeated,
than you'll think the game is great.
I thought it was brilliant, and the bosses got me diving and twisting in
my chair!
Walrus 64
So you are saying that your standard is comparable to commodore 64 already?
The answer to the question: "Why there are no games for the N64" is,
because the
developers take the time to make a good game. The only game I can think of
for the PS
that has taken some time to make is FF7...and that's it. And that's also it
with the
quality...
Chris
In article <33607C...@informatics.medfac> Eggman 64 <Ar...@informatics.medfac> writes:
>From: Eggman 64 <Ar...@informatics.medfac>
>Subject: Re: Eat your heart out PS and Saturn owners!!!!!
>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:43:11 +0200
Heh, excuse my ignorance but I missed the first few messages from this thread.
What game are you talking about? :)
Thanks,
Chris
Hyper Static
their talkin about Starfox64....oh and yes, FF7 is the Playstation's
only quality title....you wont see another of that caliber for it ever
again...;)
Darien Allen
On Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:00:33 LOCAL, chr...@voicenet.com (Chris) wrote:
>>It was repeatitive, but so is Doom and if you like what's repeated,
>>than you'll think the game is great.
>>I thought it was brilliant, and the bosses got me diving and twisting in
>>my chair!
>
>Heh, excuse my ignorance but I missed the first few messages from this thread.
> What game are you talking about? :)
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
Starfox 64 I believe, actually though this argument could apply to
many of the current N64 titles.
[...You have now entered QuestWorld...]
[Darie...@CrazySexyCool.Com ]
holyc...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:32:10 +0100, Web-Slinger
> <sli...@websling.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Carlont wrote:
> >>
> >> If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
> >> EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> >> Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> >> cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
> >> know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
> >> of cash. Here are some facts:
> >
> >> 1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
> >
> >That's just wrong. The $30 figure you quote includes the royalty to
> >Nintendo, too. Take a N64 cartridge apart and have a good look -- it
> >do you really thing it costs all -that- much to assemble? The
> >equivilent price for a CD manufacturing & licensing is about $10.
>
> Oh boy. Another person on Nintendo's payroll. Bullshit, bullshit, and
> Bullshit. You sound just as bad as Howard Lincoln's denial. Snap out
> of it.
> >
> >> 2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
> >
> >You exaggerate. CDs can take within a week; cartridges within a month.
>
> All the magazines I have ever read say he is right-that it could take
> a few months.
> >
> >> 3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
> >
> >So developers are more likely to dump crap games onto the market...
>
> Oh boy. Now I know for sure you are a Nintendo employee. No one in the
> public in his or her right mind would buy that excuse anymore. What
> kind of games are there mostly right now? Surprise! CRAP!
>
> >> 4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
> >
> >Have any figures for that? I do, and their licensing fees aren't
> >-that- much more expensive than Sega's or Sony's.
>
> Funny, I don't here any third party companies bitching about licensing
> fees from Sega or Sony. But I guess you would dismiss that as
> coincidence.
>
> >You tell only half the story. Yes, developers have flocked to the
> >Playstation rather than the N64, but it's more complicated than
> >just CDs vs Carts. Nintendo's Dream-Team policy, for a start
> >alienated all but a handful of developers, plus there's simply more
> >red tape developing for Nintendo platforms (read: the "Tree-House").
>
> Oh yeah. And all the current third party developers are really
> good-right? NOT!
>
> >
> >
> >> Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
> >> Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
> >> but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
> >
> >Yeah, but guess what? The Playstation has been out longer than the N64.
> >I know it's a surprise. Sit down and take it all in.
>
> You're the one that needs to take it all in. Come on. If your not on
> the clock what can they do? Don't use your real name! Don't be afraid
> to tell us how you feel!
>
> >
> >Stupid cross-posting troll.
>
> Stupid brainwashed Nintendo employee.
>
> >--
> >
> >Web-Slinger [IRC: "WebSlinga"] - N64 Gazetta Webmaster
> >
> >e-mail : sli...@websling.demon.co.uk
> >N64 Gazetta : http://www.famicom.com/n64/
> >
> > "Give 'em an inch, they take a foot, and before
> > you know it, you haven't got a leg to stand on."
On Sunday, April 13, 1997 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Kill OJ wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:32:10 +0100, Web-Slinger
> <sli...@websling.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Carlont wrote:
> >>
> >> If anyone has May 1997's issue of EGM, read the "N64 PHOBIA" letter.
> >> EGM gave a good response of why barley any games are out or coming for
> >> Nintendo 64. It's not because the system is sorta new, it's cause it
> >> cost the companies to much to produce them. I know a lot of people
> >> know this, but they give some facts to show the Nintendo 64 is a waste
> >> of cash. Here are some facts:
> >
> >> 1) $30 per cartridge vs. $1 per CD to produce
> >
> >That's just wrong. The $30 figure you quote includes the royalty to
> >Nintendo, too. Take a N64 cartridge apart and have a good look -- it
> >do you really thing it costs all -that- much to assemble? The
> >equivilent price for a CD manufacturing & licensing is about $10.
>
> Oh boy. Another person on Nintendo's payroll. Bullshit, bullshit, and
> Bullshit. You sound just as bad as Howard Lincoln's denial. Snap out
> of it.
> >
> >> 2) CDs are able to be reproduced in a week, catridges take months
> >
> >You exaggerate. CDs can take within a week; cartridges within a month.
>
> All the magazines I have ever read say he is right-that it could take
> a few months.
> >
> >> 3) If a game does bad, companies don't lose so much with CDs
> >
> >So developers are more likely to dump crap games onto the market...
>
> Oh boy. Now I know for sure you are a Nintendo employee. No one in the
> public in his or her right mind would buy that excuse anymore. What
> kind of games are there mostly right now? Surprise! CRAP!
>
> >> 4) Nintendo has expensive licensing fees
> >
> >Have any figures for that? I do, and their licensing fees aren't
> >-that- much more expensive than Sega's or Sony's.
>
> Funny, I don't here any third party companies bitching about licensing
> fees from Sega or Sony. But I guess you would dismiss that as
> coincidence.
>
> >You tell only half the story. Yes, developers have flocked to the
> >Playstation rather than the N64, but it's more complicated than
> >just CDs vs Carts. Nintendo's Dream-Team policy, for a start
> >alienated all but a handful of developers, plus there's simply more
> >red tape developing for Nintendo platforms (read: the "Tree-House").
>
> Oh yeah. And all the current third party developers are really
> good-right? NOT!
>
> >
> >
> >> Now I know many of you will write back yelling that it's smart for
> >> Nintendo to do this, then companies are forced to make quality games -
> >> but while your WAITING, PlayStation players are PLAYING.
> >
> >Yeah, but guess what? The Playstation has been out longer than the N64.
> >I know it's a surprise. Sit down and take it all in.
>
> You're the one that needs to take it all in. Come on. If your not on
> the clock what can they do? Don't use your real name! Don't be afraid
> to tell us how you feel!
>
> >
> >Stupid cross-posting troll.
>
> Stupid brainwashed Nintendo employee.
>
> >--
> >
> >Web-Slinger [IRC: "WebSlinga"] - N64 Gazetta Webmaster
> >
> >e-mail : sli...@websling.demon.co.uk
> >N64 Gazetta : http://www.famicom.com/n64/
> >
> > "Give 'em an inch, they take a foot, and before
> > you know it, you haven't got a leg to stand on."