Player Killers
CW
I don't know because I am new to this newsgroup, but how does everyone
else feel about player killers? I for one feel that they should be
stopped to allow others to play the game.
........
CW wrote in article <342497f...@news.mindspring.com>...
>I don't know because I am new to this newsgroup, but how does everyone
>else feel about player killers? I for one feel that they should be
>stopped to allow others to play the game.
Why do you say that.. PK's are a part of every online game!! deal with it.
Who wants to just kill monsters all the time??? it gets old real fast I used
to hate PK's untill i tried it =) weather it be emerging from the shadows
and wasting someone, to running after them threw a dungeon. and you know
the best part i think is when they call you an asshole after u killed em and
walk away with all there stuff =)
Now how does that compare to killing a orc or somthing like that? u know all
u acomplished was killing a computer operated creature. no rush what so
ever..
AND for those of you who think pks r warped ppl... I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT U
THINK =)
L8R
Antony Dicks
> AND for those of you who think pks r warped ppl... I DONT GIVE A SHIT
WHAT U
> THINK =)
> L8R
>
>
>
After Playing muds for over 6 years now, Yes Pking can be fun. IF and only
if you do it in a controlled manner... Not to every person.
Some high level person killing all the mid level people, or people
struggling to get their feet in place is no competition...
Yes if you want a real challange, take on someone else at around the same
level as you....
Regards,
KATZ
nicholas louis rogal
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, CW wrote:
> On 21 Sep 1997 11:51:15 GMT, "Antony Dicks"
> Personally I can't see the point... I mean, I would rather play with
> the land and hunt creatures than attack people, but that's me. I
> figure that there has to be at least a few that share my feelings so
> the only thing I can think of that would be fair to both would be to
> set an agreed fighting situation.
>
> Both parties must agree to a challenge, otherwise a player can do
> nothing more than severely wound another. That way people who like to
> take on other people can do so and people like me can roam freely to
> do what we want to do. Thanks.
There is a diffrence between constructive, and destructive evil
in muds and RPG's. The point of the game is for everyone to have fun,
while it may be fun for YOU to kill everyone you are certainly ruining
other people's amusment. A defense to this is, unlike a real RPG i don't know
them, and the ST has a hard time stopping me, so screw'em.. This may be
true, however; its just this lack of respect for other people that ruines
games (it ruined meridian 59 for me). Detstuctive evil is just this type
of thing.
Moderetly constructive pk'ing. Would be being an assasin for
hire. Your still killing people, but at least your adding atmosphere to
the game + those killed know your working for someone else.
Constuctive evil should rarely contain Pk'ing, this is stuff like
robbiries (your money for life). Paralysing people, and taking them
hostage.( i don't know if you can do this in UO, but it was a favorite in
a Mud i used to play). Of course when people resist you kill them, but
you are giving them a way out. So the victim, must take action that'll
get him self killed, attacking you for instance. Of course by warning
people, and coming up with more complex plans than, i throw a fireball at
them, you do but your character in more danger. But damn, if you wanted
to play it all safe you should of stayed within the law silly.
> >
Susan
>a) certain people want to get rich quick and its easier to kill a
>newbie who doesn't stand a chance rather than kill a monster who
>probably would do the PKiller in quickly (unless he's good enough)
>b) certain individuals who get an absolute thrill in killing players
>just for the sake of killing without any regard to their feelings
>( these people usually resort to cheating in order to acquire that
>advantage needed to mass kill ) c) PKilling guilds (or groups of
>friends) who think PKilling is so cool so they do it thinking that
>the number of players they kill makes them the best guild or group
>( yeah right!! ).
The fact that PKing is on everyone's mind is reason enough I
would think for UO to curtail it completely. I don't have the
software yet but I am already concerned too much about survival and
having fun. _After all_ if I don't want to have fun and survive I can
turn the news on and listen to all the latest carnage going on in real
life. _So_ part of UO has got to put me in a different world; one
where with reasonable care my life won't be snuffed out by an
unmanageable human element. I totally disagree that any element of
PKing is somehow okay at this point in time. Let UO build, mature,
and start to decay and then introduce PKing elements into the
scenario.
I understand that gold is so scare/hard to get that this is an
added incentive to PKing. Is it true that some PKing has taken out
all the NPCs in an area so nothing can be bought or sold? I also
heard of a situation where someone could not sell some item they had
because the NPC didn't have enough gold to buy the item?
I haven't figured out how I am ever going to keep up my interest
for very long in UO if _dying_ is on my mind so much. It would be
wonderful in am imaginary game of adventure to play an intelligent
creature that simply never killed its own kind and where human beings
were one of their adversaries.
It is a bad sign there is still so much talk about PKing in UO.
I would like to learn what the real world penalties are? I would like
to see the adventure run with no PKing permitted period. I doubt
seriously many people will be too upset. I say round them all up,
execute them (remove the character from the server), and banish the
individual for two weeks (approximately) from creating any new
character.
No, I don't think I like OSI's attitude about PKing and gold.
The game is way to slow and hazardous to enjoy for long. Maybe after
it has matured? Months and months and months and months have gone by
since Diablo came out and UO was first talked about and what is the
biggest real-life subject STILL -- PKing. Forget it! OSI, call me
when you can figure out a mature environment I can play in.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
David Gustafson
All the more reason to put an end to these idiots ruining the game for
others. This creep gets a rush ruining things for others. I won't pay to
have my game ruined ORIGIN.
>> Why do you say that.. PK's are a part of every online game!! deal with
>it.
>> Who wants to just kill monsters all the time??? it gets old real fast I
>used
>> to hate PK's untill i tried it =) weather it be emerging from the shadows
>> and wasting someone, to running after them threw a dungeon. and you know
>> the best part i think is when they call you an asshole after u killed em
>and
>> walk away with all there stuff =)
>> Now how does that compare to killing a orc or somthing like that? u know
>all
>> u acomplished was killing a computer operated creature. no rush what so
>> ever..
>> AND for those of you who think pks r warped ppl... I DONT GIVE A SHIT
>WHAT U
>> THINK =)
>
> Another fine example of our public school system... Can't even spell
>correctly when he wants to...
> So tell me... Are you going to spend $65 and then $10 a month simply to
>slaughter innocents? Isn't there something better you can spend you money
>on? I was thinking "Hooked on Phonics"...
>
William Edward Glaholt
In article <342497f...@news.mindspring.com>, bry...@mindspring.com (CW)
wrote:
>I don't know because I am new to this newsgroup, but how does everyone
>else feel about player killers? I for one feel that they should be
>stopped to allow others to play the game.
Well, I truly used to feel the way you did.
However, after having played the game more, getting to be a bit of a
veteran, I've discovered a couple of things.
A) PKillers are beatable. They're easy to get away from, and moreover,
they are easy to thwart, using a little bit of the ol' criminal psychology.
Do *NOT* try to play the game on their own turf, and the pkiller will
generally either ignore you or laugh at you then go away.
B) Pkillers are *TRULY* necessary to the game. If the only thing you
had to worry about was the ettin rambling across the map toward you,
at its slow monster pace, the game would get REAL boring REAL quick.
If you have something of value, other people are going to want it. What
would the fun of the game be if everyone ended up with full magical
plate, magic swords and a completely full spellbook? Someone else
HAS to be around to try and kill other people for stuff.
Now, before you get the wrong idea about me, I am *NOT* a pkiller.
Never have been and never will be. My philosophy is to heal the wounded
and sick and feed the hungry. (Hell, if I can't do it in the real
world, I can at least create the facsimile of it in UO). BUT,
I think the game would be a boring one indeed if the pkiller was not
allowed to exist.
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A. Pearson
Susan wrote:
> The fact that PKing is on everyone's mind is reason enough I
> would think for UO to curtail it completely. I don't have the
> software yet but I am already concerned too much about survival and
> having fun. _After all_ if I don't want to have fun and survive I can
> turn the news on and listen to all the latest carnage going on in real
> life. _So_ part of UO has got to put me in a different world; one
> where with reasonable care my life won't be snuffed out by an
> unmanageable human element. I totally disagree that any element of
> PKing is somehow okay at this point in time. Let UO build, mature,
> and start to decay and then introduce PKing elements into the
> scenario.
<snipped - For more details, read above posted message>
Can it be the the Legacy of the Avatar, his entire existance,
his messages, etc. have been "Shattered" in this version? That
somewhere along the line, chaos has entered the mix, and
screwed things up? And the Avatar has been so weakened, to the
point of nonexistance?
If you view it in this respect, the PKillers, assassins, law
abiding citizens, etc. all have a PLACE here. Everyone is
adding to the SHATTERED LEGACY THEORY.
I believe that the purpose of this game, this version, is play
in a world that, "Could have been". A parallel dimension where
the AVATAR did NOT succeed in his quest, and evil has gained
the upper hand.
Play the game with this in mind... all of you. Just accept that
the PKillers are chaos that is a result of the Avatar failing his
quest.
Just my thoughts... it has helped me ALOT in dealing with the
frustrations of gameplay.
Brimstone the Earth Mage,
Lost Order of Akalabeth
http://www.enter.net/~apearson/pages/uohome.html
Ashley Dunn
One of the big problems with UO is that death for a PK'er or thief has
little penalty. The game allows you to create 5 characters. You can create
one with say 50% thief skills, rob a bunch of people blind and if you die,
so what? You just create another high level thief. Same goes for PK'ers.
You create one with 50% swordsmanship, which is more than enough to wipe
out any miner, escpecially since all Pk'ers seem to have the best armor and
weapons.
I think there is a place for PK'ing, but the ease with which you can get
away with it in UO says that something is seriously wrong. PK'ing should be
difficult to get away with. In UO it is the easiest way to make money.
The world is so poverty stricken and it is so difficult to make an honest
living that it is absolutely no suprise that so many have turned to PK'ing
and theft. All this blather about the challenge of killing another human
character is just bullshit. Most of the Pk'ers run in large gangs that pick
on newbies. It's just greed...and UO has made it that way. Why spend a week
working in the mines when you can get armor in a few minutes by PK'ing? Why
kill monsters when human victims give much better armor?
In addition the tools in UO to combat PK'ers are just terrible. For a posse
to take on a high level mage or a grandmaster swordsman with a gang
requires a very high level of coordination. First of all, there is no way
to easily identify PK'ers or thieves. Unlike Meridian where at least you
can see if they are red or orange letter characters. Also, the lack of a
broadcast or group send makes it almost impossible to coordinate an attack.
I've been involved in several posses and the results have all been
disastrous. The Pk'er know each other well, yet we can barely identify
ourselves.
I suggest a few things: 1) there has to be more incentive to make an honest
living. The world must be a little richer.
2) There has to be a way to identify those with bad notoriety
3) There has to be some penalty ( as in the real world) for mass murder!
For example, what if they were attacked by NPCs on entering a town?
4) The number of characters allowed must be reduced to one. Possibly two.
5) The chat function has to be much better..
Anyway, just some ideas. I do believe that PK'ing will be the central issue
that determines the success or failure of this world. So far, I have been
so frustrated, building up a character, then watching him go down the tubes
to PK'ers...
Susan wrote in article <3426af97...@news.concentric.net>...
>>a) certain people want to get rich quick and its easier to kill a
>>newbie who doesn't stand a chance rather than kill a monster who
>>probably would do the PKiller in quickly (unless he's good enough)
>>b) certain individuals who get an absolute thrill in killing players
>>just for the sake of killing without any regard to their feelings
>>( these people usually resort to cheating in order to acquire that
>>advantage needed to mass kill ) c) PKilling guilds (or groups of
>>friends) who think PKilling is so cool so they do it thinking that
>>the number of players they kill makes them the best guild or group
>>( yeah right!! ).
>
> The fact that PKing is on everyone's mind is reason enough I
>would think for UO to curtail it completely. I don't have the
>software yet but I am already concerned too much about survival and
>having fun. _After all_ if I don't want to have fun and survive I can
>turn the news on and listen to all the latest carnage going on in real
>life. _So_ part of UO has got to put me in a different world; one
>where with reasonable care my life won't be snuffed out by an
>unmanageable human element. I totally disagree that any element of
>PKing is somehow okay at this point in time. Let UO build, mature,
>and start to decay and then introduce PKing elements into the
>scenario.
>
Susan
>FYI susan, UO has, after many complaints, has finally implemented one
>of my suggestions ( finally <g> ). They will be monitoring any
>unusually high stats for possible cheating and bug exploitations and
>have the stats immediately lowered and possibly have that person kicked
>off.
Kick the jerks off. Don't give them _any_ incentive to come back
trying harder and harder. More people will have more fun with UO if
PKing wasn't _any_ concern inside OR OUTSIDE of town. There is no
place for it unless you really want to foster humans killing humans.
If I am not equipped and playing a warrior/thief role I feel totally
violated when anything attacks me. It should be sufficient just
dealing with the beasts. The human killing element is totally wrong
and if OSI supports it it _will_ get out of hand.
Britannia should be a special place and not a "killing field".
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Susan
>I believe that the purpose of this game, this version, is play
>in a world that, "Could have been". A parallel dimension where
>the AVATAR did NOT succeed in his quest, and evil has gained
>the upper hand.
>
>Play the game with this in mind... all of you. Just accept that
>the PKillers are chaos that is a result of the Avatar failing his
>quest.
An interesting twist if you ask me. That would also give us a
plot and/or a quest to work on too, when there doesn't seem to be any
at all.
However, I think LB should take his chances with the rest of us
too if we are going to risk life and come back again and again so
should he.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
nicholas louis rogal
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Susan wrote:
> >One of the big problems with UO is that death for a PK'er or thief has
> >little penalty.
>
> This wouldn't be a problem at all if OSI _really_ took PKing
> seriously and stopped placating victims like our justice system does
> in real life. To put an end to PKing you remove all that person's
> characters from the servers and ban him/her (the person not the
> character name) from playing for 2 weeks or more. And you don't give
> him/her his/her money back within two weeks if he PKilled someone,
> i.e., if you spend $60.00 for the final version and start PKing and
> are caught within the two week game return period you are out of luck.
uh-huh right this is likely. I wouldn't play the game if this
was in place. Can you kill someone who steals from you, or are you going
to outlaw stealing too. or to put it in the words of Tom Servo, and Crow.
"yea now were Sea-Lion and Squrill, we have nothing to do with each
other, and its so much fun."
>
> Further more. PKing outside of town is just as wrong as inside
> of town. I think the influences for PKing have got it all wrong and I
> think those who want to kill innocent players should go elsewhere or
> OSI will discover what they really have ended up creating is a
> glorious war game of people against people.
Of course its people against people thats the fun, what i'd be
entertained for maybe two weeks with out having to worry about pkers. yea
>
> IF the "good" elements of PKing such as the highway bandit or
> thief could really exist without the "bad" then I would whistle a
> different tune maybe, but there is every indication to believe this
> simple isn't so and OSI will be burying their heads in the sand.
This i agree with, and if i decide to PK, i'll only be the good kind
:).
>
> So I say, don't allow any PKing period. Let us walk through the
> forest by ourselves and not feel more afraid of seeing another human
> then a beast.
>
> I don't think it will work any other way. There could be right
> now more man hours around the world devoted to PKing in UO then OSI
> can devote to stopping it.
>
Actully the only reason Pker's exsist, is lack of real death. If
when you died you were DEAD and couldn't come back, pkr's would be less
(not more) of a problem. Cause they couldn't just die, and then be back
in 15 minutes up to their old tricks... Think about it, the reason people
arn't mass murders for profit in the real world, is cause it'd ruin their
lives (or get them killed) in UO it isn't applicable... basically if you
want Pking to stop the PLAYERS in the game need to make the atmosphere to
hot for pking to be much of a problem. FOrm posses, hunt down pkr's (its
what we did in meridian) it didn't solve all the problems, but it helps.
This game is all about the struggle of good vs evil, thats good
people vs evil people, if evil is winnnig, its cause good ain't trying
hard enough...
If when the final comes out you want to help me stop evil, i'll
be glad to have you aboard.
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
>
>
Susan
>One of the big problems with UO is that death for a PK'er or thief has
>little penalty.
This wouldn't be a problem at all if OSI _really_ took PKing
seriously and stopped placating victims like our justice system does
in real life. To put an end to PKing you remove all that person's
characters from the servers and ban him/her (the person not the
character name) from playing for 2 weeks or more. And you don't give
him/her his/her money back within two weeks if he PKilled someone,
i.e., if you spend $60.00 for the final version and start PKing and
are caught within the two week game return period you are out of luck.
Further more. PKing outside of town is just as wrong as inside
of town. I think the influences for PKing have got it all wrong and I
think those who want to kill innocent players should go elsewhere or
OSI will discover what they really have ended up creating is a
glorious war game of people against people.
IF the "good" elements of PKing such as the highway bandit or
thief could really exist without the "bad" then I would whistle a
different tune maybe, but there is every indication to believe this
simple isn't so and OSI will be burying their heads in the sand.
So I say, don't allow any PKing period. Let us walk through the
forest by ourselves and not feel more afraid of seeing another human
then a beast.
I don't think it will work any other way. There could be right
now more man hours around the world devoted to PKing in UO then OSI
can devote to stopping it.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Susan
>>Play the game with this in mind... all of you. Just accept that
>>the PKillers are chaos that is a result of the Avatar failing his
>>quest.
>I mean they are part of gaming, there's always [been] PKillers,
There has always been chaos but there hasn't always been human
killing humans. Well, maybe there always has been... but you know
what? I am not going to pay $100 for it with shipping and taxes. It
just doesn't make any sense. The more I think about it the more I
might enjoy going around Britannia just as a ghost. With my kind of
luck I won't find anything that will kill off my character. :) I'll
have to check out the ghost's stats.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
CW
>
>
>On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Susan wrote:
>
>> >One of the big problems with UO is that death for a PK'er or thief has
>> >little penalty.
>>
>> This wouldn't be a problem at all if OSI _really_ took PKing
>> seriously and stopped placating victims like our justice system does
>> in real life. To put an end to PKing you remove all that person's
>> characters from the servers and ban him/her (the person not the
>> character name) from playing for 2 weeks or more. And you don't give
>> him/her his/her money back within two weeks if he PKilled someone,
>> i.e., if you spend $60.00 for the final version and start PKing and
>> are caught within the two week game return period you are out of luck.
> uh-huh right this is likely. I wouldn't play the game if this
>was in place. Can you kill someone who steals from you, or are you going
>to outlaw stealing too. or to put it in the words of Tom Servo, and Crow.
>"yea now were Sea-Lion and Squrill, we have nothing to do with each
>other, and its so much fun."
>
>>
>> Further more. PKing outside of town is just as wrong as inside
>> of town. I think the influences for PKing have got it all wrong and I
>> think those who want to kill innocent players should go elsewhere or
>> OSI will discover what they really have ended up creating is a
>> glorious war game of people against people.
> Of course its people against people thats the fun, what i'd be
>entertained for maybe two weeks with out having to worry about pkers. yea
>>
>> IF the "good" elements of PKing such as the highway bandit or
>> thief could really exist without the "bad" then I would whistle a
>> different tune maybe, but there is every indication to believe this
>> simple isn't so and OSI will be burying their heads in the sand.
> This i agree with, and if i decide to PK, i'll only be the good kind
>:).
>>
>> So I say, don't allow any PKing period. Let us walk through the
>> forest by ourselves and not feel more afraid of seeing another human
>> then a beast.
>>
>> I don't think it will work any other way. There could be right
>> now more man hours around the world devoted to PKing in UO then OSI
>> can devote to stopping it.
>>
> Actully the only reason Pker's exsist, is lack of real death. If
>when you died you were DEAD and couldn't come back, pkr's would be less
>(not more) of a problem. Cause they couldn't just die, and then be back
>in 15 minutes up to their old tricks... Think about it, the reason people
>arn't mass murders for profit in the real world, is cause it'd ruin their
>lives (or get them killed) in UO it isn't applicable... basically if you
>want Pking to stop the PLAYERS in the game need to make the atmosphere to
>hot for pking to be much of a problem. FOrm posses, hunt down pkr's (its
>what we did in meridian) it didn't solve all the problems, but it helps.
>
> This game is all about the struggle of good vs evil, thats good
>people vs evil people, if evil is winnnig, its cause good ain't trying
>hard enough...
> If when the final comes out you want to help me stop evil, i'll
>be glad to have you aboard.
So because you and others like to fight this war of good and evil
means that to play this game, I and others that feel the way I do must
be characters that can defend themselves properly (warriors and such)?
I want to be a simple baker, carpenter or tailor... does that mean I
must die quickly because of it?
nicholas louis rogal
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, CW wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:23:02 -0500, nicholas louis rogal
> <ro...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Susan wrote:
> >
> >> >One of the big problems with UO is that death for a PK'er or thief has
> >> >little penalty.
> >>
Well, no, not if you never want to leave town, or do anything
dangerous. Hey, kinda like the real middle ages. Actully though you have
a valid point, don't know how to fix it though, you can't have your pie
and eat it to i suppose.>
Susan
>I fail to see the difference between a human killing me and a troll killing
>me.
Granted if trolls or any monster have as much AI as a human that
they can appear one minute to be friendly and helpful and lure one off
to kill them in some surprise then there isn't much difference. Nor
is there much difference if a troll with overwhelming strength takes
out a victim. There is no challenge in it for the victim at all.
I hate to say it because you will say, "oh, poor Susan", but the
PKing going on isn't "fair" and I don't have to play. But I will let
OSI decide whether they want to support anything close to Diablo or
not.
It seems pretty apparent to me so far that in UO one spends their
time trying not to be killed or robbed by other humans. To me that is
not an adventure I want to spend hours playing.
Would trolls be so smart in UO that they might band together and
enter a town to kill and rob? I don't think so. With all the
creatures UO has to offer for food, clothing, and riches (I presume
some), I fail to see why they need to include the most dangerous
creature of all -- ourselves!
Take heart. I have ordered the Charter Edition. I will play the
game and see how well I can manage the tediousness and the dying
before deciding to return it or not. We have two weeks. One week of
intense work should do the trick. I see no reason for hope that this
will work out satisfactorily since so many people seem bent on killing
and robbing.
Throughout the beta testing to this date PKing elements and
robbing have been the lead subjects. If OSI had any guts they would
be disgusted with fostering any PKing action at all and would not
allow it period. At best there might not be such a crowd slowing the
servers down. If PKing wasn't an issue and so rampant, would PKers
play decent folk in Britannia or would they look for something else?
In answer to your question, there is a huge difference between
being killed by a human rather then a troll. And you fail to see
this.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
devere1
Susan <Sus...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<34280a29...@news.concentric.net>...
> Kick the jerks off. Don't give them _any_ incentive to come back
> trying harder and harder. More people will have more fun with UO if
> PKing wasn't _any_ concern inside OR OUTSIDE of town. There is no
> place for it unless you really want to foster humans killing humans.
I fail to see the difference between a human killing me and a troll killing
me.
-Ophidian Dragon
Adam Littman
Realism and following the plot as designed are good things, to a point. But if
they make the game an unpleasant experience for the majority of the people
playing then they stop being a plus. The plotline of the game may make PKers,
thieves and other jerks a logical element in the game but that doesn't mean
that they won't manage to drive away a lot of paying customers. Perhaps Origin
is just hoping that they won't turn people off until after it is too late to
return the game.
In article <34269C...@enter.net>, apea...@enter.net wrote:
>Can it be the the Legacy of the Avatar, his entire existance,
>his messages, etc. have been "Shattered" in this version? That
>somewhere along the line, chaos has entered the mix, and
>screwed things up? And the Avatar has been so weakened, to the
>point of nonexistance?
>
>If you view it in this respect, the PKillers, assassins, law
>abiding citizens, etc. all have a PLACE here. Everyone is
>adding to the SHATTERED LEGACY THEORY.
>
>I believe that the purpose of this game, this version, is play
>in a world that, "Could have been". A parallel dimension where
>the AVATAR did NOT succeed in his quest, and evil has gained
>the upper hand.
>
>Play the game with this in mind... all of you. Just accept that
>the PKillers are chaos that is a result of the Avatar failing his
>quest.
>
>Just my thoughts... it has helped me ALOT in dealing with the
>frustrations of gameplay.
>
>Brimstone the Earth Mage,
>Lost Order of Akalabeth
>http://www.enter.net/~apearson/pages/uohome.html
___________
Adam Littman / ^ \
AL...@cornell.edu /\ / \ /\
/__\__/___\__/__\
/ \( ) ( )/ \
\ /\ o /\ /
\ / \( )/ \ /
"Four minutes twenty-two seconds, \/____\_/____\/
Baldric, you owe me a groat" \ \ /
--Blackadder \ / \ /
---------
Mohd Adisa Mahadi
In article <34269C...@enter.net> "A. Pearson" <apea...@enter.net> writes:
>From: "A. Pearson" <apea...@enter.net>
>Subject: Re: Damn Player Killers - Solution?
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:25:57 -0400
>Play the game with this in mind... all of you. Just accept that
>the PKillers are chaos that is a result of the Avatar failing his
>quest.
Just a thought, I wouldn't mind accepting Pkillers.. I mean they are part of
gaming, there's always PKillers, but what really adds up to my frustation is
that the resources in the game are down due to them, NPC and such. A new
player would have some difficulty in getting some ground in the UO.
Just my 2 cents..
Susan
> Well, no, not if you never want to leave town, or do anything
>and eat it to i suppose.>
I understand all your points in this, but there is no hope in
this game for players like myself who want an adventure away from
"real life" to some degree. No, I don't think I will go ahead now
with this "game".
It will be interesting to see how this all works out.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Ollie T
yes he can, he wants to be a baker remember...
--
To reply to me, remove NOSPAM from my e-mail.
My ICQ# is 1851852 feel free to add me to your list.
David Thompson
The whole pkiller issue is really overblown. I'm critical of a lot
of things about this game, but UO is getting trashed on this one
without justification.
I've been playing very extensively over the past week, and I have
never been pkilled, and only two or three other instances of pkilling.
I've had many people try to kill me, but that was after I lifted a
shield or shovel from their backpack. :) If someone does attack you,
run away. If they aren't magic users or on a horse, they'll never
catch you. Just run back to a town where they can't attack you. Town
pkilling is virtually impossible.
The only large-scale player killing I saw was a bunch of people
attacking everyone with a rogue character or anything negative about
their notoriety. I'm sure most people here would cheer that.
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:55:28 -0700, Sus...@concentric.net (Susan)
wrote:
>
> There has always been chaos but there hasn't always been human
>killing humans. Well, maybe there always has been... but you know
>what? I am not going to pay $100 for it with shipping and taxes. It
>just doesn't make any sense. The more I think about it the more I
>might enjoy going around Britannia just as a ghost. With my kind of
>luck I won't find anything that will kill off my character. :) I'll
>have to check out the ghost's stats.
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
____________________________________________
'Give me back the Berlin Wall,
Give me Stalin or Saint Paul.
I've seen the future, baby,
It is murder.'
- Leonard Cohen, "The Future"
To email me, remove the capital letters from my address.
Susan
>Realism and following the plot as designed are good things, to a point. But if
>they make the game an unpleasant experience for the majority of the people
>playing then they stop being a plus. The plotline of the game may make PKers,
>thieves and other jerks a logical element in the game but that doesn't mean
>that they won't manage to drive away a lot of paying customers. Perhaps Origin
>is just hoping that they won't turn people off until after it is too late to
>return the game.
PKing is one BIG thing but what puzzles me as much is that the
last beta test only uncovered new problems that "will be addressed";
I'm sure BUT everyone paying $60+ to $100+ for the standard or Charter
Edition will be the new continuing beta testers.
With regret, after consideration reading everything I can find
which includes a very respected beta tester friend, I have canceled my
Charter Edition order. I was shocked anyway that with tax and
shipping the $89 price climbed just over $100.00. That is an absurd
price to pay for a yet unproven product that is troubled with PKing,
lag time, lack of a current purpose (plot), and player economy
problems (money).
BTW, just in case anyone is interested in this cancellation
process... You dial the same 800 EA order number but press menu item
2 instead of 1. EXPECT a busy signal for any number of minutes before
you get in. My card had not been processed yet so there was no
question about whether the refund would include shipping too (since no
charge was posted against my card).
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Sigf...@bigfoot.com
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:05:50 -0700, Sus...@concentric.net (Susan)
wrote:
> I understand all your points in this, but there is no hope in
>this game for players like myself who want an adventure away from
>"real life" to some degree. No, I don't think I will go ahead now
>with this "game".
I agree with your points. What I wanted was a multiplayer Ultima type
game. The Ultima games never cast you in the role of slaughtering
your own team members. They promoted the virtues.
Remember the shrines and the virtues? Hello? Anyone?
Conflict between players could be solved so easily. What if you just
didn't lose your stuff (or stats on ressurect) when a player kills
you? Then the bullies can beat you all they want and it's not
really going to accomplish anything. Their noteriety goes down and
now they can't interact with the NPCs. (unless they work up the
noteriety). End result, they can jump you, but it serves no point and
takes work to get over the noteriety drop.
Thoughts?
nicholas louis rogal
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, it was written:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:23:02 -0500, nicholas louis rogal
> <ro...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> > Actully the only reason Pker's exsist, is lack of real death. If
> >when you died you were DEAD and couldn't come back, pkr's would be less
> >(not more) of a problem. Cause they couldn't just die, and then be back
> >in 15 minutes up to their old tricks...
>
> The only problem here is that even if the PKer's character were to be
> "really" dead, it probably wouldn't matter. It has been my
> observation that most PKers out there don't get too heavily attached
> to their character. The character is just a vessel they use to
> inflict their sociopathic tendencies onto other people in the game.
> If one dies, they create a new one and start over. It might take a
> little bit more time to get started, but it wouldn't deter them for
> long.
I agree with this, but it would actully take them time to build
back-up to where they could be a threat again.
>
>
>
Unknown
On 23 Sep 1997 01:21:52 GMT, "devere1" <dev...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I fail to see the difference between a human killing me and a troll killing
>me.
>
The biggest difference for me stems from the fact that (according to
everything I've read about UO) the game is supposed to be largely a
social place where people can come together. For me in the beta there
has been little social interaction with others since I usually do not
feel comfortable starting up a conversation with just anyone,
especially since doing so in the past has led, more often than not, to
my death.
At least you know the troll isn't going to try to trick you. I don't
necessarily think that PKing should be banned from the game, but I do
think that the way it currently is (and has always been) has the
potential to be a destructive element to the overall enjoyment of the
game for a great deal of people. This all comes from the fact that
there exist people out there for whom there is no greater thrill than
wiping out someone else's progress. I've seen these people around me
from age 6 on. In the real world they are first known as bullies,
then they are known as juvenile deliquents, then sociopaths. No
matter what, they are going to exist.
The trick is to find a way to make these people uninterested in the
game, while allowing people who actually want to "play a role" in the
game to have fun. Difficult to do.
There was some guy a couple days ago who posted something about how to
play the role of a serial killer in UO. While the urge to do so has
never been great with me, the ideas he gave at least had some basis in
playing a role, not just killing everything that moves. That is where
the difference lies for me. I would be pissed if I got killed, no
matter what the circumstances, but I'd get over it more quickly if the
murderer had some purpose behind it other than, "kewl, now I only need
to kill one more person to raise my strength to 78". That isn't
playing a role, that is just plain immature.
Klaan Darkbane
Lord David Thompson <meph...@netcom.ca-NOSPAM> stood up and announced to
the crowd, who were eager to hear a tale:
> The whole pkiller issue is really overblown. I'm critical of a lot
> of things about this game, but UO is getting trashed on this one
> without justification.
>
I agree. I believe the problem that Susan and many other good people have
with PKilling is caused by one of a few reasons:
A) They have been the victim of too many PKillings. Personally, I have died
less than six times in the months of testing from PKilling (as opposed to
the two dozen or so guard deaths..especially from silly things like moving
chairs and the early lag-less monsters). Like David, I ran into more
situations, but was either smart enough to avoid them, bluff my way
through, or was able to run from them. But I could see the less cautious,
the naive, or the very friendly being victimized more. I have broken up
more PKillings than I've been attacked myself, so It isn't difficult for me
to see some people having problems.
B) They wish for a full fantasy world, where they can wander around without
any worry of being attacked by those who don't look like monsters. I don't
have this desire myself....I enjoy being cautious around strangers and
being pursured by (relatively) intelligent hunters...but then again, I grew
up in the Bronx. ;) I can sympathize, though. There are days where I felt
like I'd just want to stroll around, looking at the scenery. But I find the
uncertainty of potentially coming across a monster or brigand exciting as
well. For example, I tried the Realms demo....though it was nice to be
able to walk about without being attacked by every other person, it
was....I can't explain it anyway but uninspiring. Those that want flags in
UO should try the Realms. Personally, I don't want to see the forest
outside of Trinsic turned into the areas in the Realms where hundreds
unflagged players gather to hack on each other for fun.
For those who will not even try the full version because of Origin' stance
on PKillers, it will be a shame without you.
For those who worry, I would merely say that a caution eye and a quick
mind will keep you alive. If enough people who care play UO, the
psychopathic PKillers will find themselves being opposed by a force almost
as strong as Origin coming down and saying No Pkilling....and that's Player
Character Justice.
Unknown
CW
On 23 Sep 1997 17:35:09 GMT, "Klaan Darkbane" <ray...@seajay1.com>
wrote:
Well... I grew up in various areas of the Bronx myself and was
delighted to leave after 18 years. I was tired of being afraid to
walk down the street alone after the streetlights came on, I was tired
of worrying about how many locks to put on the door and afraid to let
anyone near me for fear of pickpockets or having a weapon taken out
for making accidental eye contact. I'm lucky that I didn't have
someone attack me for my clothing or sentimental jewelry as I heard
that it did happen to others.
When moving to the south, I was worried why people were saying hi to
me... it took me time to understand that there are people in the world
that do have a healthy respect for others. After these experiences, I
cannot understand why people would want to pay for a fear not as
intense but just as frustrating.
> For those who will not even try the full version because of Origin' stance
>on PKillers, it will be a shame without you.
> For those who worry, I would merely say that a caution eye and a quick
>mind will keep you alive. If enough people who care play UO, the
>psychopathic PKillers will find themselves being opposed by a force almost
>as strong as Origin coming down and saying No Pkilling....and that's Player
>Character Justice.
And I say again... does that mean I must play a warrior or a similar
type... when all I wish to be is a baker, tailor, etc. exploring the
world. When you are forced to take on certain roles, the game becomes
something other than social rp but more like a warzone.
Adam Littman
In article <01bcc6f5$cd858ca0$29a7b8cd@widdershins>, "devere1" <dev...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>Susan <Sus...@concentric.net> wrote in article
><34280a29...@news.concentric.net>...
>
>> Kick the jerks off. Don't give them _any_ incentive to come back
>> trying harder and harder. More people will have more fun with UO if
>> PKing wasn't _any_ concern inside OR OUTSIDE of town. There is no
>> place for it unless you really want to foster humans killing humans.
>
>me.
>
The troll won't wait in ambush just outside a town, hit you with a paralysis
spell, and loot your corpse, then kill you again and again if you try to
retrieve your stuff.
Susan
>I agree with your points. What I wanted was a multiplayer Ultima type
>game. The Ultima games never cast you in the role of slaughtering
>your own team members. They promoted the virtues.
Unfortunately when you add real multiplayer capability the theme
of being able to kill other human characters runs to strongly in the
developer's blood. LB must in fact be evil if not chaotic himself to
allow it. Unfortunately he is a coward too that hides behind his
statue with immense character power egging on PKers to try and kill
him.
>Remember the shrines and the virtues? Hello? Anyone?
I only played Ultima IV which was very much about the Avatar. I
enjoyed it and even have a small parchment from LB congratulating me.
That was, what, twelve years ago? Now the evil in LB's blood boils
very hot.
>Conflict between players could be solved so easily. What if you just
>didn't lose your stuff (or stats on resurrect) when a player kills
>you? Then the bullies can beat you all they want and it's not
>really going to accomplish anything. Their notoriety goes down and
>now they can't interact with the NPCs. (unless they work up the
>notoriety). End result, they can jump you, but it serves no point and
>takes work to get over the notoriety drop.
>
>Thoughts?
I'm all for it. But now I will have to wait and see since the
wind has been blown out of my sails playing this adventure for now.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Michael Bacon
Jeremy S wrote:
> If you have any smarts whatsoever, you have a very minimal chance of
> being player killed, ever. If you're stupid, well, then you can be
> living (or dead) example of survival of the fittest.
Very well put. I couldn't agree more.
Michael.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Public PGP Key: http://www.cyberramp.net/~mbacon/pgpkey.txt
ICQ#: 3309364
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy S
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:07:36 GMT, ips...@dontspamme.net (Ipslore)
wrote:
>There really is no "force"
>in the game that will stop or even curtail PKing. In the end, my
>guess is that Origin will be forced to either eliminate PK, or will,
>as some have suggested, create a "splinter world" free of Player
>Killing. It will all depend on how the average Retail Player reacts to
>getting killed and looted by another player.
> Are you willing to bet that the concept of Player Killing is
>popular, or that Origin's "stance" on Pk is written in stone? I'm not.
>
> Ipslore
>
>
Please understand, PKing is _very_ overrated. I was able to play the
beta for approximately two weeks, and I was never PKed. Never. Not
once. I switched between tailor, ranger and tamer professions (the
wimpier skills), and was attacked a handful of times, each time being
able to get away easily. The only way I could have been killed is:
a) One hit kill. If I'm that weak, then I shouldn't be running
around _too_ far from town.
b) Lag. I can see this as a problem (can't get away because you're
stuck and the other guy is ok), but it's a lag problem and not a pk
one. For that matter, the same troubles could be had if you're
running from a monster.
c) The last option is a very organized, smart group of player
killers. Really, how often do you see a character that pk's _and_ is
smart? ;) Seriously, I've ran into one, and they had a little spot at
a major crossing, hiding in the forest and popping out with magic and
heavy weapons. I got away, told some others, hunted the three or four
down and got all but one who ran like hell.
Ashley Dunn
I have to disagree....It's not just getting killed that is bothersome...it's
also the constant attacks. Every place you turn, someone is trying to kill
you...in places like the mines in Minoc or the crossroads outside of
Vesper, it's just constant. Perhaps an attempt every now and then would be
exciting, but as it is now, it's just aggravating. The number of pk'ers
creates an atmosphere in the game of suspicion. It's not like real life
where you can be fairly confident that only a very small percentage of the
population are mass murderers. In this game, it seems like a quarter of the
characters in play are either thieves or murderers. The constant attack of
thieves is just as aggravating. I mean, it's reached the point where you
just can't stand next to anyone. UO is supposed to be a social environment,
but so much of what they have built into this game has made it an
antisocial environment. Let there be Pk'ers and thieves, but there has got
to be some system in place that make those marginal professions and not the
easy life that they are now.
in a slightly related subject...it seems that UO has a ton of professions
that are pointless to pursue. Can anyone tell me why they would want to be
a baker? I can understand blacksmith, ranger, warrior etc...But what can a
baker do since no one really has to eat in the game?
Jeremy S wrote in article <34288b90...@news.primenet.com>...
Brad Tough
>
> Kick the jerks off. Don't give them _any_ incentive to come back
> trying harder and harder. More people will have more fun with UO if
> PKing wasn't _any_ concern inside OR OUTSIDE of town. There is no
> place for it unless you really want to foster humans killing humans.
> violated when anything attacks me. It should be sufficient just
> dealing with the beasts. The human killing element is totally wrong
> and if OSI supports it it _will_ get out of hand.
>
> Britannia should be a special place and not a "killing field".
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
>
susan, you might want to play another game then. don't expect osi to change
uo too much. here is a quote from thier website:
" Is player-killing allowed? How much? Will ORIGIN interfere?
Yes, of course players can kill each other. (How else would a fierce guild
rivalry be able to manifest itself?) It wouldn't be a very realistic
on-line world if you couldn't kill other players. Evil players can kill as
often as they want, and as much as the good players will allow. And no,
ORIGIN won't interfere. There will, however, be guards operating on Lord
British's behalf who will try to keep the cities safe."
from what i've read from the beta testers postings, pkilling is pretty
tough to get away with. besides, i think most people want a scary world. i
plan to be a ranger type and help others. if we want to adventure in happy
land we would go play disney online.
cheers,
brad
Adam Littman
And of course the fact that people can get caught in lag and be unable to run,
and that those are the people pks look for never entered your mind. There is a
pk named Jon posting on here about what he looks for in a victim, the posts
are very instructive, basically he looks for anyone who he can kill without
any risk to himself, people who have lost connection fex, or miners who have
low hps. What does it do for roleplaying if the only way to stand a chance
against a pk is to be an adventurer?
In article <3427ceea...@nntp.netcom.ca>, meph...@netcom.ca-NOSPAM
(David Thompson) wrote:
> The whole pkiller issue is really overblown. I'm critical of a lot
>of things about this game, but UO is getting trashed on this one
>without justification.
___________
Ed Jensen
> PKing is one BIG thing but what puzzles me as much is that the
> last beta test only uncovered new problems that "will be addressed";
> I'm sure BUT everyone paying $60+ to $100+ for the standard or
Charter
> Edition will be the new continuing beta testers.
>
> With regret, after consideration reading everything I can find
> which includes a very respected beta tester friend, I have canceled
my
> Charter Edition order. I was shocked anyway that with tax and
> shipping the $89 price climbed just over $100.00. That is an absurd
> price to pay for a yet unproven product that is troubled with PKing,
> lag time, lack of a current purpose (plot), and player economy
> problems (money).
>
> BTW, just in case anyone is interested in this cancellation
> process... You dial the same 800 EA order number but press menu item
> 2 instead of 1. EXPECT a busy signal for any number of minutes
before
> you get in. My card had not been processed yet so there was no
> question about whether the refund would include shipping too (since
no
> charge was posted against my card).
Susan, I can understand your lack of enthusiam over player killing.
However, the solution you describe on this newsgroup limits player
interaction too much, besides making the game less like "real life".
There _is_ a certain amount of desirable excitement knowing you can
do battle with another person, instead of just an AI monster. The
community attitudes (i.e., Us vs. Player Killers) could result in
new friendships and cooperation, too. Personally, I look forward to
possibly making new online friends and "adventuring" with them.
It almost sounds as if you would be happier with a regular (stand
alone) Ultima game with an IRC client in the background for chatting.
I also do not see any serious negative results of the "player killer"
flag I suggested several days ago. (I like the addition someone made
of being able to toggle the flag on at any point during the life of
their character, but never off again.) That way, anti-player killer
and pro-player killer people could both play the game just the way
they want.
Player killing could be made a lot less desirable if certain changes
were made to the programming. For example, what truly valuable
experience could a powerful warrior killing a newbie really get?
If the game is balanced correctly (which will undoubtedly take some
time), very little "experience" should be gained from such a battle.
"High level" characters should have to fight other "high level"
characters (and monsters) to get "experience". What I am trying to
say here, is, the game should be balanced to take some of the
player killing incentive away. (At least, the incentive for powerful
characters to pick on newbies.) If there isn't sufficient challenge,
the PK should get no experience/stat benefit from the kill.
The same goes for money and items. IMO, if the game is balanced
correctly, a powerful character should not really be very interested
in the kind of money and items a newbie would have. I mean, sure, a
gold piece is a gold piece, but presumably, a much tougher character
should be interested in bigger game, with bigger rewards in terms of
money and items.
Years and years and years ago, I played a game called "Scepter of
Goth" on a CDC mainframe. It was multiuser. Player killing was a
fact of life. However, the consequences of player killing were more
serious (the closest Ultima Online analogy I could make is, you would
lose a lot of notoriety if you initiated the battle and/or you were
much more powerful than the character you killed). Actually, the
attribute was called "piety". You would lose piety, which made all
the monsters in the game more likely to attack you than someone with
a higher piety. Talk about incentive to have a high piety!
Also, if your piety dropped too low, you were considered "lynched by
a mob", and your character was killed (but you could ressurect, with
random losses of attributes).
In a nutshell, what I am trying to say is, player killing should have
more serious consequences than it does. But having the thrill of
unrestricted user interaction, including player killing, be totally
removed from the game, is not really a good solution!
Also, it would be interesting if there were some sort of NPC-based
"Assassins Guild", where you could pay assassins to kill other players
(presumably, player killers). The price of an assassination would
have to be high, which means, it would require a lot of people to
"pitch in" to hire the professional assassin. That way, lots of weak
newbies getting picked on could each contribute X gold pieces to the
assassin fund, and when enough money was generated, some powerful high
level monster could hunt the PK. (Or perhaps, the strength of the
"assassin" could be gauged by how much $$$ is paid for the assassin.)
In closing, let me say this. I have been a professional computer
programmer for what seems like umpteen million years. My gut reaction
to the price of the initial package and the monthly service fee seems
excessively reasonable. The system they have put together sounds
extremely complicated and involved, and the manpower to put the entire
program together would surely surprise you and boggle your mind. Add
to that the constant maintenance required by the servers and the game
itself, and $10/month seems quite shockingly low, IMO.
Whew! Sorry for the long post. Just my long-winded 2 cents.
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
-Ed
K. Laisathit
In article <34275d41...@news.concentric.net>,
Susan <Sus...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>I fail to see the difference between a human killing me and a troll killing
>>me.
>
>they can appear one minute to be friendly and helpful and lure one off
>to kill them in some surprise then there isn't much difference. Nor
>is there much difference if a troll with overwhelming strength takes
>out a victim. There is no challenge in it for the victim at all.
If you decide to go out adventuring with someone labeled 'Dark Lord' or
even the humble 'Dishonorable', then I say you deserve to be killed.
Chances are, you aren't the first victim of this pkiller. How about,
a newbie pkiller. I most certainly think they have the right to get
killed as anybody else. ;)
And yes, the troll outmatchs just about 80 or 90 percent of the players
I have seen in the game in a single hand-to-hand combat. In that
regard, a troll aren't at all that diffirent from a well-equipped
well-trained pkiller.
> I hate to say it because you will say, "oh, poor Susan", but the
>PKing going on isn't "fair" and I don't have to play. But I will let
>OSI decide whether they want to support anything close to Diablo or
>not.
No, it isn't fair. Just a couple of nights ago, I played a miner in
Minoc. It turned out that there was a rampaging pkiller whose name
escapes me at the moment. Since all the miners in Minoc need to go
to the mountain to get the ore, the miner's life blood so to speak.
Needless to say, miners were dropping like flies. Was this fair?
Of course not, all these miners are new characters (not necessarily
new players). But then there is a happy ending. A band of
courageous players managed to lure the killer within the guard
teleporting range and have him killed by the guards.
> It seems pretty apparent to me so far that in UO one spends their
>time trying not to be killed or robbed by other humans. To me that is
>not an adventure I want to spend hours playing.
What's the difference between trying to evade a human controlled
monster and an AI controlled one? I have done my share of evading
these two types of monsters. True, it's a lot easier to evade an
ettin.
> Would trolls be so smart in UO that they might band together and
>enter a town to kill and rob? I don't think so. With all the
>creatures UO has to offer for food, clothing, and riches (I presume
>some), I fail to see why they need to include the most dangerous
>creature of all -- ourselves!
Pkillers can't do that either. As for the creatures you were talking
about, well, there aren't that many. You can walk all the way from
Trinsic to Vesper or Yew without seeing anything larger than a cow.
[snip]
> In answer to your question, there is a huge difference between
>being killed by a human rather then a troll. And you fail to see
>this.
I think there is a distinction between having pkilling and rampant
pkilling. Unfortunately, we can't avoid rampant pkilling if we
ever permit a PC to fight another PC to the death. The question
you have to ask yourself is, do you want to take an big element,
player-to-player confict, out of the game? I'm not sure that's
what I want. IMHO, the present arrangement against pkilling, while
not perfect, is quite satisfactory.
Later...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
Adam Littman
In article <01bcc888$621ff420$66c0...@chronos.visi.com>, "Ed Jensen" <eje...@nospam.visi.com> wrote:
>Susan <Sus...@concentric.net> wrote in article
><3427ec64...@news.concentric.net>...
>Susan, I can understand your lack of enthusiam over player killing.
>However, the solution you describe on this newsgroup limits player
>interaction too much, besides making the game less like "real life".
>
>There _is_ a certain amount of desirable excitement knowing you can
>do battle with another person, instead of just an AI monster. The
>community attitudes (i.e., Us vs. Player Killers) could result in
>new friendships and cooperation, too. Personally, I look forward to
>possibly making new online friends and "adventuring" with them.
>
>It almost sounds as if you would be happier with a regular (stand
>alone) Ultima game with an IRC client in the background for chatting.
>
>I also do not see any serious negative results of the "player killer"
>flag I suggested several days ago. (I like the addition someone made
>of being able to toggle the flag on at any point during the life of
>their character, but never off again.) That way, anti-player killer
>and pro-player killer people could both play the game just the way
>they want.
That was me, but I stole the idea from a mud I once played on. One addendum
was that to join a guild you had to be PK on.
>Player killing could be made a lot less desirable if certain changes
>were made to the programming. For example, what truly valuable
>experience could a powerful warrior killing a newbie really get?
>If the game is balanced correctly (which will undoubtedly take some
>time), very little "experience" should be gained from such a battle.
>"High level" characters should have to fight other "high level"
>characters (and monsters) to get "experience". What I am trying to
>say here, is, the game should be balanced to take some of the
>player killing incentive away. (At least, the incentive for powerful
>characters to pick on newbies.) If there isn't sufficient challenge,
>the PK should get no experience/stat benefit from the kill.
>The same goes for money and items. IMO, if the game is balanced
>correctly, a powerful character should not really be very interested
>in the kind of money and items a newbie would have. I mean, sure, a
>gold piece is a gold piece, but presumably, a much tougher character
>should be interested in bigger game, with bigger rewards in terms of
>money and items.
On another mud I played that allowed pkilling, you could not get any exp from
anything more than 10 levels below you, and you could equip yourself with no
trouble at all with equipment 20 levels below you even starting out with
nothing (eq had level limits too), gold was incredibly easy to come by after
about level 50. This did not stop one 190 level character from going around
killing anybody less than level 10 that he could find. No benefit at all for
him, other than some sick thrill, no challange either, one hit was more than
twice the newbie's hps.
>Also, it would be interesting if there were some sort of NPC-based
>"Assassins Guild", where you could pay assassins to kill other players
>(presumably, player killers). The price of an assassination would
>have to be high, which means, it would require a lot of people to
>"pitch in" to hire the professional assassin. That way, lots of weak
>newbies getting picked on could each contribute X gold pieces to the
>assassin fund, and when enough money was generated, some powerful high
>level monster could hunt the PK. (Or perhaps, the strength of the
>"assassin" could be gauged by how much $$$ is paid for the assassin.)
All this is based on the incorrect notion that the pkillers are seriously
playing the game. If they were they would be out fighting monsters no
pkilling. They don't care if they get assasinated. They would probably take it
as a badge of honor. "I killed so many newbies that all together they could
afford an assasin to kill me".
>In closing, let me say this. I have been a professional computer
>programmer for what seems like umpteen million years. My gut reaction
>to the price of the initial package and the monthly service fee seems
>excessively reasonable. The system they have put together sounds
>extremely complicated and involved, and the manpower to put the entire
>program together would surely surprise you and boggle your mind. Add
>to that the constant maintenance required by the servers and the game
>itself, and $10/month seems quite shockingly low, IMO.
Supply side economics at its best, it costs this much to make the product so
that much is a reasonable price. The problem is that if not enough people are
not willing to pay what you have to charge to break even, your business will
fail. If UO has a fixed cost of $50k a month and a marginal cost of $8 per
person per month they need to find 25k people willing to pay $10 a month or
10k people willing to pay $13 a month just to break even. If there is no price
level where the marginal profit times the number of players doesn't meet or
excede the fixed costs they are screwed.
Rokkit
Just an observation...
You will notice, this thread has been bringing up very good points,
the points that many against PKing feel are most valid. As such,
there has been very little feedback in this thread by PKers....
Nothing to argue with, perhaps?
Rokkit
Susan
Okay, (she says calmly) what happens if I do something stupid and
I am about ready to die at the hands of a PKer or monster AND I pull
the plug at my end? I hope the battle stays engaged and I die.
Otherwise this would be a messy way of escaping I do not want to
discover useful.
I am glad I canceled my Charter Edition order. It makes a lot
more sense to see how the real thing settles down and pick it up just
the game discounted even with the first month free. There might be
close to a 50% savings in it over the Charter Edition that was just
over $100 with tax and shipping charges.
In one of the other threads on this infamous subject Mahrin Skel
pointed to an interesting article on player types in a MUD:
http://journal.tinymush.org/v1n1/bartle.html
My interests clearly lie in Exploring rather then Socializing,
Achieving, or Killing. As an explorer I need to consider
trades/strengths that fit well into exploring. Cartography would be
one. I like map detail so why not do that.
Has UO started anew yet or are they still running the beta
version and characters even though the beta is over? I think next I
will spend more time at owo.com.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
CW
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:08:57 -0700, "Ashley Dunn" <asd...@nytimes.com>
wrote:
>I have to disagree....It's not just getting killed that is bothersome...it's
> also the constant attacks. Every place you turn, someone is trying to kill
>you...in places like the mines in Minoc or the crossroads outside of
>Vesper, it's just constant. Perhaps an attempt every now and then would be
>exciting, but as it is now, it's just aggravating. The number of pk'ers
>creates an atmosphere in the game of suspicion. It's not like real life
>where you can be fairly confident that only a very small percentage of the
>population are mass murderers. In this game, it seems like a quarter of the
>characters in play are either thieves or murderers. The constant attack of
>thieves is just as aggravating. I mean, it's reached the point where you
>just can't stand next to anyone. UO is supposed to be a social environment,
>but so much of what they have built into this game has made it an
>antisocial environment. Let there be Pk'ers and thieves, but there has got
>to be some system in place that make those marginal professions and not the
>easy life that they are now.
>
>in a slightly related subject...it seems that UO has a ton of professions
>that are pointless to pursue. Can anyone tell me why they would want to be
>a baker? I can understand blacksmith, ranger, warrior etc...But what can a
>baker do since no one really has to eat in the game?
Well... what a friend and I decided to do was go around as a mated
pair of various professions selling things along the way. We were
going to try for a tailor and an alchemist, selling clothing and
potions ... or animal tamer and baker and so on, but what was most
interesting for us was just learning as we travelled about the
enviroment or meeting interesting people. Unfortunely we did not know
that it was madatory to be a stronger profession to survive.
Brimstone_LOA
Brad Tough had a good point <above posting> - I will add my thoughts..
---
Basically, if we are going to cry, bitch and moan about PKillers -
it will do nothing in the long run. The more we complain, the
more appealing PKilling will become to players. If we take
everything in stride, and live our 'online' lives day by day, we
should simply accept whatever fate is dealt to us.
If Origin removed the ability to PKill, the game would IMMEDIATELY
lose 50% of its appeal - at least to me. I want a PKiller to
try to take me out... I want the competition... I want to shove
a rubber-edged spoon into someones heart! Try me, Pkillers, make
me your next "victim"... find me first guys... cuz you simply do
NOT WANT ME TO FIND YOU! PERIOD.
Without PKillers, I would have to rely on VERY SMART Artificial
Intelligence to keep me mesmorized and interested. I doubt that
the game has that level of AI at this time. So I need to have
encounters with REAL LIFE baddies... so that I can feel a good
sense of accomplishment - bashing the brains out of silly little
"I WANT TO BE A PKILLER" people. Don't you see this a clear as
day? It is so beautiful. Find a PKiller - and TAUNT HIM UNTIL
HE/SHE GOES MAD! Then hunt them down and splice them in half...
scatter their body-bits all over the place and yell, "IS THERE YET
ANOTHER PKILLER WHO WISHES TO TAKE ME ON?!!!"
If we all become fanatics over the slaughtering of PKillers, you
will see that the popularity of PKilling will dwindle - at least
a wee-bit..
I'm blabbing again... in a nut shell - I WELCOME ALL PKILLERS, and
look forward to meeting you - then killing you - and urinating all
over your dead corpse. Have a wonderful day. :)
Brimstone
Lost Order of Akalabeth
Susan
>I have to disagree....It's not just getting killed that is bothersome...it's
>also the constant attacks. Every place you turn, someone is trying to kill
>you...in places like the mines in Minoc or the crossroads outside of
>Vesper, it's just constant. Perhaps an attempt every now and then would be
>exciting, but as it is now, it's just aggravating. The number of pk'ers
>creates an atmosphere in the game of suspicion. It's not like real life
>where you can be fairly confident that only a very small percentage of the
>population are mass murderers. In this game, it seems like a quarter of the
>characters in play are either thieves or murderers. The constant attack of
>thieves is just as aggravating. I mean, it's reached the point where you
>just can't stand next to anyone. UO is supposed to be a social environment,
>but so much of what they have built into this game has made it an
>antisocial environment. Let there be Pk'ers and thieves, but there has got
>to be some system in place that make those marginal professions and not the
>easy life that they are now.
If what you say is really true it runs counter to what others
have said, that PKing isn't so common. I agree with you completely
though, if what you are saying is actually the situation. OSI has a
major problem to contend with. And now that they have ended beta
testing they and the retail players are on their own.
>In a slightly related subject...it seems that UO has a ton of professions
>that are pointless to pursue. Can anyone tell me why they would want to be
>a baker? I can understand blacksmith, ranger, warrior etc...But what can a
>baker do since no one really has to eat in the game?
I thought eating would improve your strength stats and thus was a
reason to eat?
>>Please understand, PKing is _very_ overrated. I was able to play the
>>beta for approximately two weeks, and I was never PKed. Never. Not
>>once. I switched between tailor, ranger and tamer professions (the
>>wimpier skills), and was attacked a handful of times, each time being
>>able to get away easily. The only way I could have been killed is:
Interesting. There is definitely a contradiction going on here.
Let's sort it out. What is going on in Britannia today? Who is
playing the game now?
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Susan
>> For those who will not even try the full version because of Origin' stance
>>on PKillers, it will be a shame without you.
I will not buy it until I see that the world is manageable. EA
has decided there will be no more beta testing.
>> For those who worry, I would merely say that a caution eye and a quick
>>mind will keep you alive. If enough people who care play UO, the
>>psychopathic PKillers will find themselves being opposed by a force almost
>>as strong as Origin coming down and saying No Pkilling....and that's Player
>>Character Justice.
> I find that statement quite humorous. There really is no "force"
>in the game that will stop or even curtail PKing. In the end, my
>guess is that Origin will be forced to either eliminate PK, or will,
>as some have suggested, create a "splinter world" free of Player
>Killing. It will all depend on how the average Retail Player reacts to
>getting killed and looted by another player.
Yes. It is time to wait and see. My natural alignment as an
Explorer type runs strongly against killing other humans or being
killed by them. When Britannian's are clearly managing this I will
give it a try too. If not I will wait for a safer world somewhere
that I can manage. There are plenty of things to do in life.
> Are you willing to bet that the concept of Player Killing is
>popular, or that Origin's "stance" on Pk is written in stone? I'm not.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Susan
>Well... what a friend and I decided to do was go around as a mated
>pair of various professions selling things along the way. We were
>going to try for a tailor and an alchemist, selling clothing and
>potions ... or animal tamer and baker and so on, but what was most
>environment or meeting interesting people. Unfortunately we did not know
>that it was mandatory to be a stronger profession to survive.
What are you saying? How often were you PKed or were your goods
stolen? It appears you found your situation unmanageable?
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Susan
Let me modify all my points in conclusion by agreeing that PKing
has its place in real-life MUDs, but that there are some problems of
management to be worked out for which there currently is no solution
for in Britannia.
Above and beyond PKing I really fear this game is to immense for
me. What is its playability if one plays it for only four hours every
weekend?
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Ed Jensen
Adam Littman <al...@cornell.edu> wrote in article
<609u85$f...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>...
> On another mud I played that allowed pkilling, you could not get any
exp from
> anything more than 10 levels below you, and you could equip yourself
with no
> trouble at all with equipment 20 levels below you even starting out
with
> nothing (eq had level limits too), gold was incredibly easy to come
by after
> about level 50. This did not stop one 190 level character from going
around
> killing anybody less than level 10 that he could find. No benefit at
all for
> him, other than some sick thrill, no challange either, one hit was
more than
> twice the newbie's hps.
Point taken. It leads me to wonder, however, how many pkillers fall
into each of the following groups:
(a) PK for fun
(b) PK for material gain (money/items) and increased stats
(c) PK for both (a) and (b)
With reduced incentive to pkill in regards to material gain and
increased stats, surely the number of pkillers would reduce.
(Presumably, pkillers that fall into the (b) category would drop
significantly, and pkillers that fall into the (c) category
would drop "some".)
Without some hard statistics, though, I am not sure if the
reduction in the number of pkillers would be great, small, or
somewhere in between.
> All this is based on the incorrect notion that the pkillers are
seriously
> playing the game. If they were they would be out fighting monsters no
> pkilling. They don't care if they get assasinated. They would
probably take it
> as a badge of honor. "I killed so many newbies that all together they
could
> afford an assasin to kill me".
Based on what I see in this newsgroup, dying is usually merely
an inconvenience. If a greater loss was incurred, perhaps the
pkiller would think twice about taking the risk of attacking
another person. I assume it takes even a pkiller some time to
get strong and gather possessions that enable him/her to kill
other players.
The double edged sword here, though, is if the pkiller has more
to lose, so must the person being attacked against his/her will.
> Supply side economics at its best, it costs this much to make the
product so
> that much is a reasonable price. The problem is that if not enough
people are
> not willing to pay what you have to charge to break even, your
business will
> fail. If UO has a fixed cost of $50k a month and a marginal cost of
$8 per
> person per month they need to find 25k people willing to pay $10 a
month or
> 10k people willing to pay $13 a month just to break even. If there is
no price
> level where the marginal profit times the number of players doesn't
meet or
> excede the fixed costs they are screwed.
I'm not sure how much hardware resources is required to run this
beast, but I assume it's pretty non-trivial. Still, my gut reaction
is, $10/month is pretty reasonable. :-)
Now, I wonder if UO will run on my wimpy P-90...
> Adam Littman / ^ \
> AL...@cornell.edu /\ / \ /\
> /__\__/___\__/__\
> / \( ) ( )/ \
> \ /\ o /\ /
> \ / \( )/ \ /
> "Four minutes twenty-two seconds, \/____\_/____\/
> Baldric, you owe me a groat" \ \ /
> --Blackadder \ / \ /
> ---------
-Ed
Doug Bora
: I agree. I believe the problem that Susan and many other good people have
: with PKilling is caused by one of a few reasons:
I have more of a problem with looting than anything else. Anyone can do
it, and there's no notoriety hit involved, so you can basically steal
without fear. I was a miner the other day. Mining in Minoc. I was
trying to sell my ingots. A thief steals my bag with gold in it. I had a
couple hundred in there - there's no bank in Minoc, so runs to the bank
are a pain. I call the guards. They kill him. The asshole looters take
my bag of gold of the thief's corpse before I can get there, and despite
my protests runs off with it. I wasn't even sure who took it as like 5
people swooped down on him. Now THAT is what I call bullshit. At least
in this case, the guard should hand you back your stolen item. I also
hate the people that loot you when you die and resurrect. How much of a
bloody prick do you have to be to take people's stuff when they're
standing there? God I hope these problems become less common once it
costs. I fear it unlikely, however.
--
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
Goo...@spamproof.bigfoot.com
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:31:27 -0700, Sus...@concentric.net (Susan)
wrote:
> Above and beyond PKing I really fear this game is to immense for
>me. What is its playability if one plays it for only four hours every
>weekend?
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Taken another way, what is the playability if I can't spend 30% of my
online time trying to meet up wit people I know and scheduling the
next get-together?
I'd like to be able to play by myself primarily and with groups when
the opportunity arises. I don't want to be restricted by the need to
be with a group if I want to wander the land or run to the mines and
back a few times.
Tatter_D
In article <01bcc92c$403217e0$a7c0...@chronos.visi.com>,
eje...@nospam.visi.com says...
>
>Point taken. It leads me to wonder, however, how many pkillers fall
>into each of the following groups:
>
>(a) PK for fun
>(b) PK for material gain (money/items) and increased stats
>(c) PK for both (a) and (b)
>
>With reduced incentive to pkill in regards to material gain and
>increased stats, surely the number of pkillers would reduce.
>(Presumably, pkillers that fall into the (b) category would drop
>significantly, and pkillers that fall into the (c) category
>would drop "some".)
Unfortunately, PKers that fall into those three groups are all in the minority.
The number one reason PKillers kill is because it gives them a thrill to mess
up hours of someone else's work, and nobody can stop them. (Kill their
character? It was a throwaway character to begin with.)
Ashley Dunn
I agree completely Nicky. Who wants to pay $9.95 a month or even 10 cents a
month to be someone else's victim?
Nicky Wilson wrote in article <34297542...@supernews.znet.com>...
>On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:08:17 GMT, "Brad Tough" <bto...@shl.com.EH>
>wrote:
>
>>" Is player-killing allowed? How much? Will ORIGIN interfere?
>>Yes, of course players can kill each other. (How else would a fierce
guild
>>rivalry be able to manifest itself?) It wouldn't be a very realistic
>>on-line world if you couldn't kill other players. Evil players can kill
as
>>often as they want, and as much as the good players will allow. And no,
>>ORIGIN won't interfere. There will, however, be guards operating on Lord
>>British's behalf who will try to keep the cities safe."
>
>(Incoming!...)
>
>I can't believe that the folks that created UO didn't learn from
>Diablo's mistakes. _Another_ promising online game shot down because
>of player-killing. "As much as the good players will allow." What an
>effin' scream! When pk is sanctioned, all the power is instantly
>delivered right into the pkiller's hands. Why? Because while we may
>care about the game, pkillers couldn't give a rat's ass for it.
>
>When the checks on pk are limited to only certain small "safe" areas
>(i.e. towns), this in effect allows the player-killers to dictate the
>type of game everyone else MUST have when adventuring anywhere else (a
>game full of suspicion, unable to relax and actually *enjoy* the game
>instead of constantly being on the lookout for pkillers!). This, to
>me, is just intolerable and unfair, and utterly unfun for the player
>who actually wants to experience some depth in the game, and maybe
>actually accomplish something besides being a victim. As in Diablo,
>the pkers are killing the atmosphere of the game. I fail to see how
>UO will be worth the monthly rate...Diablo had no monthly fee, and
>still not worth the effort due to the pk.
>
>If there weren't such masses of immature, bored, emotionally-stunted,
>spiteful little snot-nosed wankers with access to online resources,
>pkilling might actually add some spice to gameplay. But as they love
>to proclaim, this is "real-life", and therefore we have to put up with
>their crap. I, for one, am not going to pay for that oh-so-special
>privilege. And I will let the folks responsible for UO know why.
>Maybe someday *someone* in the game industry will get it right! I
>would pay _out_my_nose_ for a truly immersive, balanced online rpg!
>
>Susan is right...player-killing should be the exception, and not the
>rule. I was looking forward to UO, but now...
>
> >:(
>
>
>
>Nicky
>ICQ# 2887603
>(As usual, remove the all-caps "NOSPAM"
>from my address if ya wanna send email!)
>
>
Klaan Darkbane
A frequent speaker at Trinisic's council hall, Susan
<Sus...@concentric.net> oft had good opinions and questions, such as when
she asked:
> Above and beyond PKing I really fear this game is to immense for
> me. What is its playability if one plays it for only four hours every
> weekend?
>
I have played multiple days straight for 4-6 hours each day on a character,
and I have gone periods where I only played the character for an hour or
two and continued for a bit longer three or four days later day. The
playability in the beta was there (unless your character was wiped) in both
cases. In the latter, though, I could hardly expect to be able to venture
in the woods and not be afraid of every other animal that passed by five
days after he/she was created. You'll wind up spending the same amount of
time developing a character (in terms of REAL time) no matter what. This
may mean that the friends you enjoyed wandering around looking for feathers
last week with may rather hunt ettins this week because they played every
night and you didn't. But, if they are true friends, they'll do it anyway,
at least for awhile.
So, aye, if one only plays once a week, one's character will be behind
those who play for 12 hours each night. But two things should keep one from
getting discouraged at this:
a) Those who cheat not-withstanding (and I believe cheaters are more
numerous in myth than reality), everyone tops out at a certain point. So
what would be the equivalent of 10000+ lvl people (I despise level-based
RPGs) won't be an issue.
b) Again, any cheaters aside, the people who will be near topped out will
be those who dedicate themselves to the game. Most of these people will be
of a good nature, and some will be willing to help you out.
I would suggest people who are uncertain wait a month. Read the posts. And
remember that someone who has a bad experience will yell louder than
generally three to five people who are having a bearable to good time. I
know a number of people who have already decided to invest in the game, and
of those, I'd say over 95% love the game, world, and/or concept too much to
let it fall to pieces. Those people who are dedicated to making UO work
(whether or not a nay-sayer will consider them naive) will do their best to
make the world a fun place.
I should know. In pure, rough numbers, I of the people I met in any given
session of the UO Beta:
5% wanted to kill me.
15% (some nights, more) were hoping to make a quick buck off me (stealing
or conning)
50% were indifferent to me (most running by to quick to make an
acquaintance)
20% were friendly enough and we shared some good talks.
10% were very friendly and often offered to help.
When you think about it, that may just as well be a breakdown of REAL
life. I'm even honestly shifting some of the 'friendly enough' people into
the indifferent category because many wouldn't believe me. I'm sure people
have had radically different experiences. Maybe it was the characters I
played. Most of my characters were confident, helpful, friendly, and
knowledgeable(some more of one trait than another), and stayed in character
unless a person needed an 'out of game' answer. I think that rubbed off on
some people.
Anyway, just more of my goofy ramblings....
Gaidal Cain
Rokkit wrote:
It could be a literacy problem. . . : )
-Gaidal Cain
Blake
Nicky Wilson wrote:
Pkilling is not that rampant. You simply have to learn which
areas/cities to
avoid. A small price to pay for such a well balanced, enjoyable game.
I played
the beta frequently and was only Pk'd twice. Lag was involved both
times.
David Gustafson
> I agree with this, but it would actully take them time to build
>back-up to where they could be a threat again.
>>
Unfortunately that time they spend building back up is spend killing others.
And they do it in large gangs where even a powerful player has no chance of
survival.
David Gustafson
> I understand all your points in this, but there is no hope in
>this game for players like myself who want an adventure away from
>"real life" to some degree. No, I don't think I will go ahead now
>with this "game".
>
> It will be interesting to see how this all works out.
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
It's too bad UO let it get to this point. You are the kind of person that
makes this game fun to play....or could have made the game fun to play....at
least as much fun as one can have considering the inconsiderate jerks out
there that can ruin the fun for 100's in a single night....night after
night....how long UO expects people to pay to be treated like this I don't
know.
David Gustafson
>I think there is a distinction between having pkilling and rampant
>pkilling. Unfortunately, we can't avoid rampant pkilling if we
>ever permit a PC to fight another PC to the death. The question
>you have to ask yourself is, do you want to take an big element,
>player-to-player confict, out of the game? I'm not sure that's
>what I want. IMHO, the present arrangement against pkilling, while
>not perfect, is quite satisfactory.
>
their hands. The much larger majority that don't want to have to deal with
these scum....we can return the game and let UO turn into a big Diablo.
Then when the only thing to kill is another PK they will get bored and go
away and so will the remaining small amount of revanue that small manority
will put into this venture.
Jeremy S
On 25 Sep 1997 05:00:38 GMT, stig...@wwa.com (Doug Bora) wrote:
>: As for thieves, I've found a simple way of stopping them getting away
>: with your stuff - have 2 backpacks. Put one of the backpacks in your
>: other pack, and cover it up with a fur or something. Put all of your
>: valuables in the inner pack. Then, whenever you're at a place that
>: has steal potential, just open the first pack. The second you see
>
>Interesting theory, but it's flawed. The thief just steals the first
>pack, which contains the second pack and gets both. The fur (or any other
>item) covering your goods does work I believe, but is not totally
>foolproof. The good part, is that the thief can't move it out of the
>way. He must steal it. But that just means that the thief will have to
>steal the fur first, THEN the backpack. Still this little bit can be the
>difference between losing your valuables and not.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you cannot steal a person's
original backpack without killing them first. You can snoop it, but
can't steal it.
>
>--
>Doug Bora
>stig...@wwa.com
- the Ninja Roach
nroach*@primenet*.com* - take out *'s
David Gustafson
>I fail to see the difference between a human killing me and a troll
killing
>me.
>
You don't get 20 to 30 trolls looking for specific people to kill for the
shear thrill of pissing people off and ruining the game for them.
ev5...@youknowwhattoremovehotmail.com
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:41:23 -0700, Sus...@concentric.net (Susan)
chose to share this bit of his wisdom with us:
>>I agree with your points. What I wanted was a multiplayer Ultima type
>>game. The Ultima games never cast you in the role of slaughtering
>>your own team members. They promoted the virtues.
>
> Unfortunately when you add real multiplayer capability the theme
>of being able to kill other human characters runs to strongly in the
>developer's blood. LB must in fact be evil if not chaotic himself to
>allow it. Unfortunately he is a coward too that hides behind his
>statue with immense character power egging on PKers to try and kill
>him.
>
>>Remember the shrines and the virtues? Hello? Anyone?
>
> I only played Ultima IV which was very much about the Avatar. I
>enjoyed it and even have a small parchment from LB congratulating me.
>That was, what, twelve years ago? Now the evil in LB's blood boils
>very hot.
>
>>Conflict between players could be solved so easily. What if you just
>>didn't lose your stuff (or stats on resurrect) when a player kills
>>you? Then the bullies can beat you all they want and it's not
>>really going to accomplish anything. Their notoriety goes down and
>>now they can't interact with the NPCs. (unless they work up the
>>notoriety). End result, they can jump you, but it serves no point and
>>takes work to get over the notoriety drop.
>>
>>Thoughts?
>
> I'm all for it. But now I will have to wait and see since the
>wind has been blown out of my sails playing this adventure for now.
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
One thing you're forgetting is that PKs can be dealt with. I walked
all over Britannia, by myself during the beta test. I was only
attacked by PKs 3 times. I killed all 3 of them. I didn't even have
that strong of a character. If you develop the magery skill to a
decent level but have something like 'tailor' show up on your paper
doll you'll look like easy pickings to these jerks and then you get to
blast them. Remember PKs aren't interested in developing their
characters and are usually only physically strong. They tend to have a
very low resistance to magic.
Also when Phase II first started the road between Minoc and Vesper was
thick with PKs. There were groups of players that hid themselves along
the road, caught these jerks in the act and dispatched them. It was
great fun to listen to a guy that had just tried to PK someone whine
about losing all of his stuff! So take heart ,Susan. While the problem
is there it is greatly overstated and there are people hunting down
PKs.
Playboy: What about when Mom and Dad aren't around?
Bill Maher: Then the kid shouldn't have access to the computer. I don't think
adults should have to constantly rearrange their lives because of what
kids and stupid people might do. ...
David Gustafson
>So because you and others like to fight this war of good and evil
>means that to play this game, I and others that feel the way I do must
>be characters that can defend themselves properly (warriors and such)?
>I want to be a simple baker, carpenter or tailor... does that mean I
>must die quickly because of it?
According to those that insist on PKing yes. I played as a ghost one night
after being PK'd then followed and listed to these jerks. Let's go kill
some Miners hahaha....I'm bored...ok let's go kill some of these poeple.
hahahaha...let's pretend were hunting PKers then kill the people that join
us...hahahaha... That' all these peope do period... I mean period! The only
thrill they get out of the game is stealing and pking and making things
miserable for others. I have yet to see any other kind of pking. I keep
hearing swill about the aviance of pking in a true life environment. Well
this isn't true life it is a game and people are paying to play and enjoy
themselves, not have things ruined by freaking sociopaths.
David Gustafson
> Well, no, not if you never want to leave town, or do anything
>dangerous. Hey, kinda like the real middle ages. Actully though you have
>a valid point, don't know how to fix it though, you can't have your pie
>and eat it to i suppose.>
Well maybe...but if I'm going to pay for the pie, I sure as hell expect to
eat the damn thing.
Jeremy S
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:06:11 -0700, "Ashley Dunn" <asd...@nytimes.com>
wrote:
>I agree completely Nicky. Who wants to pay $9.95 a month or even 10 cents a
>month to be someone else's victim?
>
> Nicky Wilson wrote in article <34297542...@supernews.znet.com>...
>>On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:08:17 GMT, "Brad Tough" <bto...@shl.com.EH>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>" Is player-killing allowed? How much? Will ORIGIN interfere?
>>>Yes, of course players can kill each other. (How else would a fierce
>guild
>>>rivalry be able to manifest itself?) It wouldn't be a very realistic
>>>on-line world if you couldn't kill other players. Evil players can kill
>as
>>>often as they want, and as much as the good players will allow. And no,
>>>ORIGIN won't interfere. There will, however, be guards operating on Lord
>>>British's behalf who will try to keep the cities safe."
>>
>>(Incoming!...)
>>
>>I can't believe that the folks that created UO didn't learn from
>>Diablo's mistakes. _Another_ promising online game shot down because
>>of player-killing. "As much as the good players will allow." What an
>>effin' scream! When pk is sanctioned, all the power is instantly
>>delivered right into the pkiller's hands. Why? Because while we may
>>care about the game, pkillers couldn't give a rat's ass for it.
>>
Player-killing did NOT destroy Diablo; as a matter of fact, it was one
of its stronger points. Cheating is what bit Diablo's ass in the end.
>>When the checks on pk are limited to only certain small "safe" areas
>>(i.e. towns), this in effect allows the player-killers to dictate the
>>type of game everyone else MUST have when adventuring anywhere else (a
>>game full of suspicion, unable to relax and actually *enjoy* the game
>>instead of constantly being on the lookout for pkillers!). This, to
>>me, is just intolerable and unfair, and utterly unfun for the player
>>who actually wants to experience some depth in the game, and maybe
>>actually accomplish something besides being a victim. As in Diablo,
>>the pkers are killing the atmosphere of the game. I fail to see how
>>UO will be worth the monthly rate...Diablo had no monthly fee, and
>>still not worth the effort due to the pk.
>>
It seems that you have an opposite goal of pk'ers - which is good.
What they want is to win, under any circumstances. What you're
wanting is a challenge. Who wants to climb the same small mountain?
Who wants to stop learning to play the guitar because it's too hard?
The week willed IMO. If you are not that, then why would you want to
play a game where _every_ enemy you encounter you can just run away
from? I have never been in danger of being killed where I didn't
attack or stand my ground. The monsters in UO are easily avoidable
and, plainly put, will get boring when you see an ettin trudging down
the road for the billionth time. Other players, on the other hand...
>>If there weren't such masses of immature, bored, emotionally-stunted,
>>spiteful little snot-nosed wankers with access to online resources,
>>pkilling might actually add some spice to gameplay. But as they love
>>to proclaim, this is "real-life", and therefore we have to put up with
>>their crap. I, for one, am not going to pay for that oh-so-special
>>privilege. And I will let the folks responsible for UO know why.
>>Maybe someday *someone* in the game industry will get it right! I
>>would pay _out_my_nose_ for a truly immersive, balanced online rpg!
>>
You are completely correct in that it really stinks that it's so easy
for extremely cowardly, crappy,
no-significant-other-so-I'll-take-it-out-on-you kind of people are
allowed in the game; but to get rid of pking altogether is not the
solution. What would you rather have in life - for the government to
be able to march into your house without a search warrant and take
anything they want in the name of the 'king'? Or would you rather
have it to where, sure, many more people get away with crimes, but you
have your freedom. Freedom is expensive; but I'm willing to pay the
price.
>>Susan is right...player-killing should be the exception, and not the
>>rule. I was looking forward to UO, but now...
I really do hope they come out with a demo disk, and let people play
for like a month on it. You would see that pk'ing is most likely
going to cost money, therefore being less frequent, and that this will
be a fun game just as long as you're playing an active role in the
fun, and not just sitting there expecting to be spoon-fed.
>>
>> >:(
>>
>>
>>
>>Nicky
>>ICQ# 2887603
>>(As usual, remove the all-caps "NOSPAM"
>>from my address if ya wanna send email!)
>>
>>
>
>
Susan
>> So I say, don't allow any PKing period. Let us walk through the
>> forest by ourselves and not feel more afraid of seeing another human
>> then a beast.
>> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
>What the..........................?
It's okay, you can say hell or heck but I don't recommend f#$k or
s$%t. :)
>I've spent a good part of today catching up on this NG and of all the post[s]
>I've read, Your posts about not allowing player killing have gotten out of
>control.
You mean _only_ my posts or _all_ the other people who have felt
a need to respond (like yourself) either positively or negatively or
somewhere inbetween to the PKing issue?
For Gods sake man, this was written some time ago. Where have
you been indeed? Take it easy. I and many others have been blowing
hot and cold on PKing for some time. Relax!
The bottom line for me is I DO NOT want to see UO ruined by PKing
and stealing like Diablo was along with cheating. Cheating in UO
doesn't seem to be an issue but PKing and stealing is driving people
to give up playing UO until they are "fixed". I [we] are not sure OSI
is getting the message. I don't read anyone from UO saying "calm down
everyone, here is what we are going to do".
Don't give it a second thought -- if these factors aren't brought
into fair line I won't be playing. I don't need you suggesting that I
go take a hike. I'll be damned if I won't express myself here. If
nothing else it helps draw other people into expressing their point of
view too on these subjects.
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Jeremy S
>All those small minority that think PKing is a major part of this game raise
>their hands. The much larger majority that don't want to have to deal with
>these scum....we can return the game and let UO turn into a big Diablo.
AARRG! Diablo was NOT killed by pking, it was killed by _cheating_.
>Then when the only thing to kill is another PK they will get bored and go
>away and so will the remaining small amount of revanue that small manority
>will put into this venture.
>
>
Ok... Now you have set a double standard. You seem to believe pk'ing
is only wanted by a few people (which I believe is wrong). There are
people who want PK'ing who do not want to PK at all (such as me),
making the pk'ers even less numbered. How is this even 'smaller
minority' causing 'rampant' killing?
Antony E Dicks
This is very true to a lot, not all though.
If you have made friends, or if a few high powered 'Just' people are around
they will help you get revenge.
Hopefully this will be the case... I know that personally, unless I have
grouped with someone, how could I trust that, that person is not trying to
trick me into an ambush....
That is the irony of it all...
You need friends to be able to last... and thus I guess that my suggestion
to all is to socialise more and BE friendly to other.. That way other will
know and help you in turn.
Friendliness begets friendliness...
KATZ
Silvana Grandillo
In article <01bcc846$dfe935c0$16c00bce@pillsbury>, ray...@seajay1.com
found a powerful inspiration and came to tell to all of us ...
<snipped>
> For those who will not even try the full version because of
Origin' s
>tance
>on PKillers, it will be a shame without you.
> For those who worry, I would merely say that a caution eye and
a quic
>k
>mind will keep you alive. If enough people who care play UO, the
>psychopathic PKillers will find themselves being opposed by a force al
>most
>as strong as Origin coming down and saying No Pkilling....and that's P
>layer
>Character Justice.
>
Nice words, but there is just one problem with your scenario :
"CHEATERS" !!!
I am not afraid of dangers or assassins at all and I do consider them
part of the fun.
What pisses me off, is that 90% of the time these people pump up their
stats or their equipment by cheating, in an unfair way thus achieving a
HUGE head start vs. all others who prefer to go the "hard" way.
Is it GMs giving them hints or "free" money, is it bugs they exploit and
not report to increase their stats, is it macros they use to pump stats
up, they definitively get an edge in an unfair way compared to all those
"newbies" who are there now, just to play the role of the victims and
get f****d all the time.
Newbies are the majority, and THEY are those who will eventually keep UO
alive by BUYING it and paying their MONTHLY fees.
So, HOW MANY newbies do you expect will stand ***paying for*** the fun
of the pkillers-cheaters when they are exactly those who are destroying
*their* part of fun ?
Sorry guys, no matter how much you like UO, and how much you might think
a newbie is stupid, I hope for the sake of mankind that there is NOT ONE
single gamer out there who is willing to pay 60 bucks +10-15$ more each
month ---> just to be f***** systematically by pkillers who cheat to get
a head start and considerable edge <---
And, since newbies are majority and pkillers minority, UO will not be
able to survive without the FORMER paying the largest part of the bills.
So, pkillers, get ready to see UO die after a short while for lack of
money, and *your* fun will eventually be over and you'll have noone to
blame but yourself, for that.
This, unless OSI will eventually get scared and realize they MUST do
something more serious about pkilling and most of all against CHEATING
to get gold or pump up stats illegally.
I WILL NOT believe to OSI's claim that they will fire GMs favouring
players, until I will actually see anyone get fired, REALLY.
Untill then, it is just petty talking...
Doug Bora
: ). After the implementation of guards attacking PKillers, they then
: used just about every trick in order to lure them outside of the
: guards influence. Now that is no longer possible, although I've still
: heard a couple of instances where that still happened. ( eg. Mathias
: come.....Mathias come....Mathias come..... WACK ) Because of that, you
: cant make an NPC come to you anymore. Somewhat annoying when the NPC
: is just outside his shop and you want him inside so that you can sell
: your wares, but because of the many abuses, they had little choice.
Little choice? Hardly. The did everything to fix it EXCEPT address the
actual problem, that being the shopkeepers leaving their shops. If they
fixed this, there wouldn't be any need to get the shopkeeper to "come", or
have them teleport back to their shops when you try to buy or sell from
them when they're outside. The current fixes are lame and unrealistic.
: Dying is on my mind only when I leave town. Kind of reminds me of
: taking a stroll in downtown Los Angeles at night :) Many people
: usually just opt for walking with a friend, however, i like to just
: go off alone and explore the world, but thats just me.
What about being stolen from? Even in town people close by make me
nervous.
--
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
Jeremy S
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:08:57 -0700, "Ashley Dunn" <asd...@nytimes.com>
wrote:
>I have to disagree....It's not just getting killed that is bothersome...it's
> also the constant attacks. Every place you turn, someone is trying to kill
>you...in places like the mines in Minoc or the crossroads outside of
>Vesper, it's just constant. Perhaps an attempt every now and then would be
>exciting, but as it is now, it's just aggravating. The number of pk'ers
>creates an atmosphere in the game of suspicion. It's not like real life
>where you can be fairly confident that only a very small percentage of the
>population are mass murderers. In this game, it seems like a quarter of the
>characters in play are either thieves or murderers. The constant attack of
>thieves is just as aggravating. I mean, it's reached the point where you
>just can't stand next to anyone. UO is supposed to be a social environment,
>but so much of what they have built into this game has made it an
>antisocial environment. Let there be Pk'ers and thieves, but there has got
>to be some system in place that make those marginal professions and not the
>easy life that they are now.
>
One thing you must mention is your profession before death. If you're
a miner, let's face it, it's like the high-dollar trade at the
stockmarket. Of course people are going to hit up miners, because
they have the most potential of having good stuff; on the other hand,
because you're the miner, you have the most potential of getting good
stuff (legitimately). I really didn't see the problems with pking AT
ALL. _Everyone_ that I saw having a pk story went something like, "I
was walking down the road, all alone, saw some guys in full plate, and
went up to them. Next thing you know, bam! I'm dead. I didn't have
a chance to run." I say noway-nohow. There are so many wrongs with
this 'sob story' that I won't even point them out. If you're player
killed, look at how you can avoid it next time. You can say that
there was no way out, but chances are, there was.
As for thieves, I've found a simple way of stopping them getting away
with your stuff - have 2 backpacks. Put one of the backpacks in your
other pack, and cover it up with a fur or something. Put all of your
valuables in the inner pack. Then, whenever you're at a place that
has steal potential, just open the first pack. The second you see
that fur move by itself, call guards or run. As a matter of fact, I
_believe_ they cant even steal the second pack if it's open, but don't
quote me on that.
So... Tell you what. If you ever do decide to play the full version,
please email me and we will travel together. Either you will prove
your point or You won't get pk'ed.
>in a slightly related subject...it seems that UO has a ton of professions
>that are pointless to pursue. Can anyone tell me why they would want to be
>a baker? I can understand blacksmith, ranger, warrior etc...But what can a
>baker do since no one really has to eat in the game?
>
This I do think sucks. They should be more concerned with balance in
the game, and when 90% of the people have 3 professions out of 20,
that is not balance. It should be more difficult to mine, Ignots
should be more expensive, smithing harder, skull caps should be
cheaper and not bought as often by the NPC's... I could go on and on,
but I hope that these holes shall be plugged. I know, I know, don't
hold my breath... But I've said it once and I'll say it again - I'm
not looking for the perfect game, I'm looking for the best game.
Unfortunately, this 'Swiss cheese-holed" game, IMO, is the best game
at the time.
Adam Littman
In article <609uib$ckm$1...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, kir...@u.washington.edu (K. Laisathit) wrote:
>In article <34275d41...@news.concentric.net>,
>Susan <Sus...@concentric.net> wrote:
>No, it isn't fair. Just a couple of nights ago, I played a miner in
>Minoc. It turned out that there was a rampaging pkiller whose name
>escapes me at the moment. Since all the miners in Minoc need to go
>to the mountain to get the ore, the miner's life blood so to speak.
>Needless to say, miners were dropping like flies. Was this fair?
>Of course not, all these miners are new characters (not necessarily
>new players). But then there is a happy ending. A band of
>courageous players managed to lure the killer within the guard
>teleporting range and have him killed by the guards.
Oooo, that must have set him back a few minutes, compared to the hours he
colectively set the miners back. I would say he won that encounter.
>I think there is a distinction between having pkilling and rampant
>pkilling. Unfortunately, we can't avoid rampant pkilling if we
>ever permit a PC to fight another PC to the death. The question
>you have to ask yourself is, do you want to take an big element,
>player-to-player confict, out of the game? I'm not sure that's
>what I want. IMHO, the present arrangement against pkilling, while
>not perfect, is quite satisfactory.
If you are such a fan of player vs. player perhaps Diablo, or Quake is more
your style. I have had a great deal of enjoyment pummelling (and more often
being pummelled by) friends in Doom contests and the like. But in those game
the difference between characters is entirely due to skill of the players,
rearming in a deathmatch takes less than 5 seconds if you know where to go. In
an RPG the situation is different, and the game dynamics are different. The R
in RPG means that you are supposed to be playing as though you were a person
in that world. PKing isn't doing that. It is trying to smash the game for
other people not playing it for yourself.
___________
Adam Littman
In article <342917...@enter.net>, apea...@enter.net wrote:
>Brad Tough had a good point <above posting> - I will add my thoughts..
>If Origin removed the ability to PKill, the game would IMMEDIATELY
>lose 50% of its appeal - at least to me. I want a PKiller to
>try to take me out... I want the competition... I want to shove
"Competition, yeah like Hiroshima" - George Carlin.
Adam Littman
In article <01bcc85e$2623e960$5313...@btough.shl.com>, "Brad Tough" <bto...@shl.com.EH> wrote:
>susan, you might want to play another game then. don't expect osi to change
>uo too much. here is a quote from thier website:
>
>" Is player-killing allowed? How much? Will ORIGIN interfere?
>Yes, of course players can kill each other. (How else would a fierce guild
>rivalry be able to manifest itself?) It wouldn't be a very realistic
>on-line world if you couldn't kill other players. Evil players can kill as
>often as they want, and as much as the good players will allow. And no,
>ORIGIN won't interfere. There will, however, be guards operating on Lord
>British's behalf who will try to keep the cities safe."
>
>from what i've read from the beta testers postings, pkilling is pretty
>tough to get away with. besides, i think most people want a scary world. i
>plan to be a ranger type and help others. if we want to adventure in happy
>land we would go play disney online.
Yeah, the muds I played that went from no PKing to freely PKing had similarly
strong statements about it being a permanent change and no way would pking be
turned off. They changed their minds as newbies stopped playing, and
established characters grumbled and took extended vacations from playing.
As for the guilds the "must be PK on to join a guild" takes care of that. The
voluntary flag, once on never off, and the fact that all guild members were PK
on pretty much satisfied everybody on a mud that went full PK for a while. My
own views on PKing were such that I played the game to the heights of power,
without joining a guild, and helping each guild's members impartially.
Most people waited until they were moderately powerful to join a guild (and
turn PK on), though a few joined as newbies.
Adam Littman
In article <60bpu6$8...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, sg...@cornell.edu (Silvana Grandillo) wrote:
>In article <01bcc846$dfe935c0$16c00bce@pillsbury>, ray...@seajay1.com
>players, until I will actually see anyone get fired, REALLY.
>Untill then, it is just petty talking...
You are wise not to believe without proof. In this litigous age they would
probably get sued for doing that when the fired person claimed "someone hacked
into my account, and it is really just an excuse because I wouldn't sleep with
my boss".
It is hard enough to fire someone for stuff you can prove (other than full
scale layoffs).
devere1
Ashley Dunn <asd...@nytimes.com> wrote in article
<60c6dp$r...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
> I agree completely Nicky. Who wants to pay $9.95 a month or even 10 cents
a
> month to be someone else's victim?
No one will be. If you're smart, PKing is easy to avoid.
-Ophidian Dragon
Eo
Brimstone_LOA <apea...@enter.net> wrote:
>Brad Tough had a good point <above posting> - I will add my thoughts..
>
>---
>
>Basically, if we are going to cry, bitch and moan about PKillers -
>it will do nothing in the long run. The more we complain, the
>more appealing PKilling will become to players. If we take
>everything in stride, and live our 'online' lives day by day, we
>should simply accept whatever fate is dealt to us.
>
>If Origin removed the ability to PKill, the game would IMMEDIATELY
>lose 50% of its appeal - at least to me. I want a PKiller to
>try to take me out... I want the competition... I want to shove
>a rubber-edged spoon into someones heart! Try me, Pkillers, make
>me your next "victim"... find me first guys... cuz you simply do
>NOT WANT ME TO FIND YOU! PERIOD.
>
>Without PKillers, I would have to rely on VERY SMART Artificial
>Intelligence to keep me mesmorized and interested. I doubt that
>the game has that level of AI at this time. So I need to have
>encounters with REAL LIFE baddies... so that I can feel a good
>sense of accomplishment - bashing the brains out of silly little
>"I WANT TO BE A PKILLER" people. Don't you see this a clear as
>day? It is so beautiful. Find a PKiller - and TAUNT HIM UNTIL
>HE/SHE GOES MAD! Then hunt them down and splice them in half...
>scatter their body-bits all over the place and yell, "IS THERE YET
>ANOTHER PKILLER WHO WISHES TO TAKE ME ON?!!!"
>
>If we all become fanatics over the slaughtering of PKillers, you
>will see that the popularity of PKilling will dwindle - at least
>a wee-bit..
>
>I'm blabbing again... in a nut shell - I WELCOME ALL PKILLERS, and
>look forward to meeting you - then killing you - and urinating all
>over your dead corpse. Have a wonderful day. :)
>
>Brimstone
>Lost Order of Akalabeth
I think that with the latest changes making Pkillers akin to monsters,
sulking around in the woods and along the roads, things are about
right. In the Beta I had the amusing experience of meeting a
good-aligned party in the woods who asked me and my friends if we'd
seen so-and-so in the area. Turns out there was a small hunting party
of about 4 heavily armed Noblemen wandering the woods, tracking down
pkillers and killing them for sport :) I'd love to see more of that.
Unfortunately I can't be as confident as you are, Brimstone, about
killing all comers. The pkillers I'd met had the best armor and
weaponry, as well as magic support and all kinds of other goodies.
Appearently they just go off in the woods and spar with a small group
of people for an hour or two and somehow emerge more powerful than
anybody else who plays honestly. With my meager resources, I couldn't
hope to do anything but die for no reason against them.
Still, if guilds like your LOA band together and periodically hunt
down pkillers, things would be the way they should. Your intra-guild
bounty board is a good example of what I expect to see happening in
the final. Things will balance out, hopefully for the better, as the
game matures.
Also, has anyone taken to haunting PKs? I just got the idea from
Bones Dragon's hilarious guild site (Ghosts of the Castle, i think)
about using the follow movement command with a manifested ghost,
chasing after someone who killed your character by treachery, shouting
a macro at them :)
Anyway, I've gone off too long already, but I'll close by saying
it's just a game. I got PKed several times in the Beta, but I never
took things too seriously. Hey, dying on Zaknafein's pilgrimage (as a
worldly guard) was actually fun, as I got to run in circles shouting
"THE VIRTUES SHALL PROTECT ME!" and generally acting out the part of a
zealot. Take death in stride, you can rebound fairly quickly--game
characters get bank accounts, so you can never totally lose
*everything*.
Eo
David Thompson
That Jon guy is an obvious troll trying to get people's goats. He's
probably not even a pkiller. It never ceases to amaze me how easily
people are riled...no wonder there are so many trolls on the go.
As for lag, you're right, it is a problem. Combat, with other
players or just with monsters, is the most affected by this. But
that's life on the 'net. Lag isn't going to go away unless you spring
for a high-powered connection (which, for the record, I do not have).
I was killed in my last game because I ran out of stamina and the
vengeful fellow pursuing me after I'd robbed him was able to catch up
with me. He certainly got a lot of satisfaction from it. <g>
Yes, I've been playing a thief in the game. I try to stay in
character, either acting as a con artist or doing the dart-and-run
thing to acquire my items. I never steal in the towns and I generally
only rob the well-off characters. I'm no Robin Hood, but I don't think
I'm wrecking people's games, either.
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:38:50 GMT, al...@cornell.edu (Adam Littman)
wrote:
>And of course the fact that people can get caught in lag and be unable to run,
>and that those are the people pks look for never entered your mind. There is a
>pk named Jon posting on here about what he looks for in a victim, the posts
>are very instructive, basically he looks for anyone who he can kill without
>any risk to himself, people who have lost connection fex, or miners who have
>low hps. What does it do for roleplaying if the only way to stand a chance
>against a pk is to be an adventurer?
>
____________________________________________
'Give me back the Berlin Wall,
Give me Stalin or Saint Paul.
I've seen the future, baby,
It is murder.'
- Leonard Cohen, "The Future"
To email me, remove the capital letters from my address.
David Thompson
On 24 Sep 1997 01:19:47 GMT, "Ed Jensen" <eje...@nospam.visi.com>
wrote:
>
>Player killing could be made a lot less desirable if certain changes
>were made to the programming. For example, what truly valuable
>experience could a powerful warrior killing a newbie really get?
>If the game is balanced correctly (which will undoubtedly take some
>time), very little "experience" should be gained from such a battle.
>"High level" characters should have to fight other "high level"
>characters (and monsters) to get "experience". What I am trying to
>say here, is, the game should be balanced to take some of the
>player killing incentive away. (At least, the incentive for powerful
>characters to pick on newbies.) If there isn't sufficient challenge,
>the PK should get no experience/stat benefit from the kill.
The game uses a skill-based system of advancement. Attacking
another character doesn't seem to have any more effect on your skills
than attacking the local bunny population.
>
>The same goes for money and items. IMO, if the game is balanced
>correctly, a powerful character should not really be very interested
>in the kind of money and items a newbie would have. I mean, sure, a
>gold piece is a gold piece, but presumably, a much tougher character
>should be interested in bigger game, with bigger rewards in terms of
>money and items.
>
As it stand now, there is zero material benefit in attacking a
newbie character. They start with no gold and a practice weapon. At
best, you might get their shovel or hatchet.
David Thompson
Nice post, but it really comes down to a simple question of market
shares. Origin is gambling that they can make more money selling the
game to pkillers than they would selling to those who want pkilling
heavily restricted or removed altogether. My guess is that their
gamble will work out. Why? Because in my online experience (going on 7
years now), there are a helluva lot more people interested in a quick
kill Quake-style than in complex, non-violent role-playing. Since
there are enough people here (myself included) who would play the game
in either scenario, Origin only stands to lose the diehard anti-pk
players.
If you don't believe me, look at their advertising campaign. It's
clearly directed towards pkillers as much as anyone else. Only if this
model fails will Origin change their tact.
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:34:41 -0700, Sus...@concentric.net (Susan)
wrote:
<snip>
>
> The bottom line for me is I DO NOT want to see UO ruined by PKing
>and stealing like Diablo was along with cheating. Cheating in UO
>doesn't seem to be an issue but PKing and stealing is driving people
>to give up playing UO until they are "fixed". I [we] are not sure OSI
>is getting the message. I don't read anyone from UO saying "calm down
>everyone, here is what we are going to do".
>
> Don't give it a second thought -- if these factors aren't brought
>into fair line I won't be playing. I don't need you suggesting that I
>go take a hike. I'll be damned if I won't express myself here. If
>nothing else it helps draw other people into expressing their point of
>view too on these subjects.
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
David Thompson
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:31:27 -0700, Sus...@concentric.net (Susan)
wrote:
>
> Above and beyond PKing I really fear this game is to immense for
>me. What is its playability if one plays it for only four hours every
>weekend?
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Yes, this is something I think about, too. Ironic how I got a
full-time computer job as a consultant just as this game gets
released. If it had come out a year ago, I would have whiled away
hours a day on it. Three years ago and I would have been only leaving
the computer to eat and sleep. Now I'll be lucky to get a few hours a
week on it. Oh well, at least I can pay for a high-powered Internet
connection now that I'll only be using it it 1/10th as much as I do
now. <g>
I'm not too worried about skill advancement, but participation in
guilds and any over-arching plot will be limited by my time
constraints.
K. Laisathit
In article <01bcc92c$403217e0$a7c0...@chronos.visi.com>,
Ed Jensen <eje...@nospam.visi.com> wrote:
>
>With reduced incentive to pkill in regards to material gain and
>increased stats, surely the number of pkillers would reduce.
>(Presumably, pkillers that fall into the (b) category would drop
>significantly, and pkillers that fall into the (c) category
>would drop "some".)
I doubt that material gains are the main reason for pkilling for
most people. I mean, take the Jon guy for example, what do you
think he'll get from killing a newbie who is naive enough to
venture alone into the wilderness? Will an average pkiller takes
his chance again a master warrior with good equipments? I doubt
that very much. And yet, it's this type of target that produces
the most material gains.
[snip]
>I'm not sure how much hardware resources is required to run this
>beast, but I assume it's pretty non-trivial. Still, my gut reaction
>is, $10/month is pretty reasonable. :-)
>
>Now, I wonder if UO will run on my wimpy P-90...
My trusty P-90 works fine for the beta. I suspect that snappy
internet access is more of a factor for UO than anything else.
With my 14.4kbps, I get shoved around a lot when there are
more than a couple of people on the screen. (Okay... okay...
I'm in the process of getting one of those 56kbps modems)
At night, around 1 to 2 AM in the morning Pacific time,
the game runs without a glitch - no noticable lag at all.
Later...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
nicholas louis rogal
The way i figure it, the final will probably have alot diffrent
atmosphere than the beta. So i am waiting to pass judgement till it
comes out. I suggest most of you do the same.... My personal plan is to
see how things are, if PK'ing is rampant, and their is little respect for
law, i will become a force for good, and attempt to organize parties to
maintain safty around and between towns. If pk'ing is almost
non-exsistant, i will try to get together (with mature and intellgent
roleplayers hopefully) a group based on constructive evil... If anyone
wants to join me on either, and is going to be on the midwest server when
the game comes out... Give me a buzz. . . Like anything in life, our
first job is to make the game more entertaining for everyone by filling a
need. Then like all things, it will become more intresting for us.
Doug Bora
: As for thieves, I've found a simple way of stopping them getting away
: with your stuff - have 2 backpacks. Put one of the backpacks in your
: other pack, and cover it up with a fur or something. Put all of your
: valuables in the inner pack. Then, whenever you're at a place that
: has steal potential, just open the first pack. The second you see
Interesting theory, but it's flawed. The thief just steals the first
pack, which contains the second pack and gets both. The fur (or any other
item) covering your goods does work I believe, but is not totally
foolproof. The good part, is that the thief can't move it out of the
way. He must steal it. But that just means that the thief will have to
steal the fur first, THEN the backpack. Still this little bit can be the
difference between losing your valuables and not.
--
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
Morganna
David Thompson wrote:
>
> The whole pkiller issue is really overblown. I'm critical of a lot
> of things about this game, but UO is getting trashed on this one
> without justification.
> I've been playing very extensively over the past week, and I have
> never been pkilled, and only two or three other instances of pkilling.
> I've had many people try to kill me, but that was after I lifted a
> shield or shovel from their backpack. :) If someone does attack you,
> run away. If they aren't magic users or on a horse, they'll never
> catch you. Just run back to a town where they can't attack you. Town
> pkilling is virtually impossible.
> The only large-scale player killing I saw was a bunch of people
> attacking everyone with a rogue character or anything negative about
> their notoriety. I'm sure most people here would cheer that.
Just my two cents worth:
My char at the last pwipe was a smith/miner/tinker. The majority of
the rest of the stats were very negligible, i.e., swordsmanship was at a
whole *2*. Not a very good fighter at all.
Someone finally put a forge out near the mines and to me in the end
it was a waste of resources.
Why? Pk'ers. They would come in groups,kill everyone there and take
over the forge. I personally was witness to two of these massacres, the
only thing saving me was that I had hid my char behind the house the
forge was in. And practiced my hiding skill. The last massacre found me
sitting behind this house for over an hour, watching as these 5 chars
killed everyone in sight. Once I was even killed behind the house
because the pker had started the attack when I was in the open and had
run to hide.
The killing got so bad at the end I couldn't distinguish the pkers
from everyone else.
This isn't to mention the 3-5 other times my char had been pk'd while
running ore or just exploring.
So there may be some exaggeration, but in my opinion, not much.
BTW .. this char had only been played for the last two wipes.
Chickenbone
Susan <Sus...@concentric.net> wrote in article <
> So I say, don't allow any PKing period. Let us walk through the
> forest by ourselves and not feel more afraid of seeing another human
> then a beast.
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
>
What the..........................?
I've spent a good part of today catching up on this NG and of all the post
I've read, Your posts about not allowing player killing have gotten out of
control.
I can't imagine this game being half as fun if they took the PKing aspect
out of it. I'm not a PKer in the overly inflated evil way that you and
others like you insist on whining about. I am how ever a roleplayer that
from time to time has found it fun to fight and kill/be killed by another
player. THAT is what this game is about.
I started out playing pen and paper RPGs wishing that I could play games
like that on my computer and soon after that was doable (is that a word?)
wishing I could combine the graphics part of the CRPG with the human
interaction of the pen and paper RPG. And now that that is being made
possible by the good folks at OSI(and I swear they read my mind cause this
is exactly the game I would make, just the right amount of fighting,
adventureing and more) there are people that want to take away the part of
the game that really makes you sweat when your travelling the wild lands of
Brittannia.
If you don't like it, don't play. If your not going to play, don't post on
a UO news group. I'm sure there are other online games out there you could
play and not have to worry about getting killed by another humanbeing.
Which makes you sick or what ever (of course its completely fine to be
killed by an orc) but not a human........that would mean that somebody else
was better than you, stronger than you (read your character)......a little
competition......hhhhmmmmmmm........
I don't think most of you people that worry so much about the PKer thing,
really have a problem with the PKing (I'm sure you'd do it givin the right
circumstances) Your just getting chapped about not being able to come and
go as you please...
You gotta remember this game will be around for a long time. If you don't
get out of the city of Britan for a month.......so what when you do you
will know that town very well and your character will be very well
developed. And think what that does for your entertainment dollar. You
spent a month adventuring in and around the city of Britan, making friends
and seeing things you wouldnt have if you could just come and go as you
please. And you still got the rest of the world to check out. With your
powerfull well developed fighter,blacksmith..what have you.
Thats the way I see it. I could be
wrong....................................*shrugs*
Essine Cn`aimh
Guest User
Susan wrote:
>
> >FYI susan, UO has, after many complaints, has finally implemented one
> >of my suggestions ( finally <g> ). They will be monitoring any
> >unusually high stats for possible cheating and bug exploitations and
> >have the stats immediately lowered and possibly have that person kicked
> >off.
>
> Kick the jerks off. Don't give them _any_ incentive to come back
> trying harder and harder. More people will have more fun with UO if
> PKing wasn't _any_ concern inside OR OUTSIDE of town. There is no
> place for it unless you really want to foster humans killing humans.
> If I am not equipped and playing a warrior/thief role I feel totally
> violated when anything attacks me. It should be sufficient just
> dealing with the beasts. The human killing element is totally wrong
> and if OSI supports it it _will_ get out of hand.
>
> Britannia should be a special place and not a "killing field".
>
> * Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Some of us will fight monsters in any guise,Susan. Human or otherwise. I
like player-killers as much as you do:not one bit,save as compost. If
you're thinking it'll be a slaughterhouse-I don't think the final
version will be. The d00d35 will go back to wanking at Quake,and the
paying customers should get some relative peace and quiet.
-Paul T.
Guest User
Adam Littman wrote:
>
> And of course the fact that people can get caught in lag and be unable to run,
> and that those are the people pks look for never entered your mind. There is a
> pk named Jon posting on here about what he looks for in a victim, the posts
> are very instructive, basically he looks for anyone who he can kill without
> any risk to himself, people who have lost connection fex, or miners who have
> low hps. What does it do for roleplaying if the only way to stand a chance
> against a pk is to be an adventurer?
>
man,virtual or otherwise. Especially since you rarely see it coming to
get you.
-Paul T.
Guest User
Nicky Wilson wrote:
>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:08:17 GMT, "Brad Tough" <bto...@shl.com.EH>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes, of course players can kill each other. (How else would a fierce guild
> >rivalry be able to manifest itself?) It wouldn't be a very realistic
> >on-line world if you couldn't kill other players. Evil players can kill as
> >often as they want, and as much as the good players will allow. And no,
> >ORIGIN won't interfere. There will, however, be guards operating on Lord
> >British's behalf who will try to keep the cities safe."
>
>
> I can't believe that the folks that created UO didn't learn from
> Diablo's mistakes. _Another_ promising online game shot down because
> of player-killing. "As much as the good players will allow." What an
> effin' scream! When pk is sanctioned, all the power is instantly
> delivered right into the pkiller's hands. Why? Because while we may
> care about the game, pkillers couldn't give a rat's ass for it.
>
> (i.e. towns), this in effect allows the player-killers to dictate the
> type of game everyone else MUST have when adventuring anywhere else (a
> game full of suspicion, unable to relax and actually *enjoy* the game
> instead of constantly being on the lookout for pkillers!). This, to
> me, is just intolerable and unfair, and utterly unfun for the player
> who actually wants to experience some depth in the game, and maybe
> actually accomplish something besides being a victim. As in Diablo,
> the pkers are killing the atmosphere of the game. I fail to see how
> UO will be worth the monthly rate...Diablo had no monthly fee, and
> still not worth the effort due to the pk.
>
> spiteful little snot-nosed wankers with access to online resources,
> pkilling might actually add some spice to gameplay. But as they love
> to proclaim, this is "real-life", and therefore we have to put up with
> their crap. I, for one, am not going to pay for that oh-so-special
> privilege. And I will let the folks responsible for UO know why.
> Maybe someday *someone* in the game industry will get it right! I
> would pay _out_my_nose_ for a truly immersive, balanced online rpg!
>
> rule. I was looking forward to UO, but now...
>
>
> Nicky
> ICQ# 2887603
> (As usual, remove the all-caps "NOSPAM"
> from my address if ya wanna send email!)
Have them become monster magnets. And the more of them in an area,the
worse it gets. That they would attract guards in town is a good
start-let them attract their own kind(like a Daemon or two) outdoors.
After all,those types are usually a rich source of loot for the average
orc horde... :)
Someone who has acieved Dread Lord status and gone all the way into
negatives should be locked into it. Screw forgiveness and acts of
charity to restore one's good name-my idea of "forget and forgive" is
obliteration of the murderer's grave and forgiving my friend for taking
him out first when I wanted to run the loser through. :)
The path into evil should not be one easily reversed by donations to
some beggar. Period.
-Paul T.
David Gustafson
Well, they waisted a hell of a lot of time on a lot of unneeded code and
really didn't an excelent job of missleading me if they are betting on a
Quake style game. I don't need to pay a monthly fee to get that kind of
entertainment.
Highlander Fan
> For those who will not even try the full version because of Origin' stance
> on PKillers, it will be a shame without you.
> For those who worry, I would merely say that a caution eye and a quick
> mind will keep you alive. If enough people who care play UO, the
> psychopathic PKillers will find themselves being opposed by a force almost
> as strong as Origin coming down and saying No Pkilling....and that's Player
> Character Justice.
And we saw how far Player Character Justice went in Diablo. No where.
I think Origin does need to change their stance on PK'rs. If I'm going
to blow $60 on this game, and then blow an additional $10 a month to
play it, I don't want to have to worry about some jack-off ruining my
game. They're getting their $10 worth of fun by ruining everyone else's
fun.
Sure, there should be evil humans, but make them NPC's. That way, there
will be a CONTROLLED amount of human threat, just like there is a
controlled amount of monster threats. If the AI is as good as they
claim it is, evil NPC's should do just fine.
By the way.... has anyone thought about this? There is NO single player
option, correct? Thus, the only way to play is to pay additional money
to origin (who will be making a major profit). What if, after a month
or so, the people at Origin get a little greedy (more so than now), and
decide to raise the price so they can have more for themselves? We're
pretty much screwed. Pay the increase, or throw the game away.
Scott
mary...@tir.com
Highlander Fan
decide to raise the proce so they can have more for themselves? We're
Klaan Darkbane
The tavern air was filled with smoke and noise, but I could still hear
Randy Patton <randy....@vt.edu> comment:
> What _really_ hurts is random thieving. If a thief uses the Stealing
> skill on you without snooping your pack and choosing a specific item, he
> gets one randomly-chosen item from the pack if successful. If this item
> happens to be you bag of valuables, you're SOL, no defense.
> He confessed that he didn't know much about Stealing, and had just chosen
the
> skill from his skill list and clicked on me when prompted. He just
lucked
> into my valuables, but if his skill had been higher and he'd had a few
> more moments to stand next to me, he could've cleaned me out completely
> without even snooping my pack.
I have never suggested any extreme actions when it came to PKilling or
PThieving, as I felt that these problems should be dealt in minor, subtle
ways, instead of giant crackdowns. But if this is true, then I *would
suggest a removal of such. In my attempt to understand how thieving worked,
I spent one night last week as a newbie thief with emphasis put on snooping
and stealing (chances are if you were stolen from, but the thief returned
within 15 seconds [ran to avoid guard callings] and returned the items to
you, it was perhaps me, and I apologize for any concern I caused you. I
found, that while stealing itself was easy, it was both somewhat fun and
complicated to perform, as I had to pick a target I could loiter around
without being noticed to obviously, come alongside, trying to see in
his/her backpack, then be able to steal and run away. To me, this not only
was sort of realistic, but also made it somewhat more difficult to perform.
If all someone needs to do is click on steal, be near you, and click on you
to potentially win some random item no matter how deep in your pack, then
its waaay to easy. You don't randomly get something stolen off you on the
street in reality. A thief targets something...aye, he may target a
worthless wallet or purse, but he was AIMING for the purse. Such random
stealing removes all the avoidance tips suggested thoughtfully by former
thieves and crime fighters and also destroys the backup protection I
offered earlier. A thief SHOULD have to rely on two skills, not just one. I
don't want thieving removed, nor do I want it made so ridiculously
complicated that its no longer an issue (Aye, a world where stealing was
unheard of would be nice for everyone, but I sort of like shuffling out of
the way of an obvious pickpocket), but it should not be a one-click option.
Randy Patton
In article <3429f570...@news.primenet.com>, nroach*@primenet*.com*
(Jeremy S) wrote:
> On 25 Sep 1997 05:00:38 GMT, stig...@wwa.com (Doug Bora) wrote:
>
> >: As for thieves, I've found a simple way of stopping them getting away
> >: with your stuff - have 2 backpacks.
> >Interesting theory, but it's flawed.
Yes, but not in the way you mention. As someone else in this thread
noted, you can't steal a character's main backpack.
What _really_ hurts is random thieving. If a thief uses the Stealing
skill on you without snooping your pack and choosing a specific item, he
gets one randomly-chosen item from the pack if successful. If this item
happens to be you bag of valuables, you're SOL, no defense.
I once lost my entire stake this way while on the way to the bank! A
novice PC thief sidled up next to me as I was stepping around someone, and
even though I had my bag of gold hidden under a pile of hides and a pelt,
he snatched it and ran. I detected him and called the guards. After the
guards killed him and the onlookers stripped his body of all valuables
(including my gold!), he ressed and I cornered him for a little talk. He
Sean David Crowe
bry...@mindspring.com (CW) wrote:
>And I say again... does that mean I must play a warrior or a similar
>type... when all I wish to be is a baker, tailor, etc. exploring the
>world. When you are forced to take on certain roles, the game becomes
>something other than social rp but more like a warzone.
I agree with many of the points being made against PKing, but
eliminating it from the game would turn me off completely. My day job
is far too boring to spend my RP time as a baker. The anti PKers are
trying to force a certain type of gameplay more than anybody. I am
not a PKer, and being what you'd probably call a novice at RPG's, I'll
be at more of a disadvantage than most, but I say leave it in and let
the people try to find a solution ( and maybe have some fun doing it).
Limit Origin's involvement to tweaking the game balance.
Cromag
Klaan Darkbane
In response to comment I said, Highlander Fan <Mary...@tir.com> Stood up
among the tavern crowd and said:
> > If enough people who care play UO, the
> > psychopathic PKillers will find themselves being opposed by a force
almost
> > as strong as Origin coming down and saying No Pkilling....and that's
Player
> > Character Justice.
>
> And we saw how far Player Character Justice went in Diablo. No where.
The part of my comment one must remember is 'if enough people who care play
UO'. Let us be frank; the land which Diablo hoped to control was not one
filled with those hoping to make a living 'living'. It was a barbaric world
filled with unruly mercenaries, miscreant rogues, and meglomaniacal
mages...because that is what the world promoted. Britannia is a world of
different and greater opportunities. Aye, it can turn into that same
chaotic world, but I am hoping it won't. I know enough people who care
already, and met many of them whilst wandering the land itself. To compare
the town and dungeons under Diablo's sway to the vast world under the
dominion of Lord British would be folly.
Wilem Dragon
Ya! Ya! I agree with you 100%. Maybe once the thrill of sitting dies
down, Origin can begin working on the pissing aspects of the game. The
girls can squat now! :)
WilemDrag
Louise Burfleet
In article <6099la$8...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, Adam Littman
<al...@cornell.edu> writes
>And of course the fact that people can get caught in lag and be unable to run,
>and that those are the people pks look for never entered your mind. There is a
>pk named Jon posting on here about what he looks for in a victim, the posts
>are very instructive, basically he looks for anyone who he can kill without
>any risk to himself, people who have lost connection fex, or miners who have
>low hps. What does it do for roleplaying if the only way to stand a chance
>against a pk is to be an adventurer?
But equally, from a role-playing standpoint, if you want to be
realistic, you would pick fights that you have a good chance of winning.
You would be stupid not to. Most real life criminals target people that
have little to no chance of being able to fight back. These in turn get
targetted by those people who can fight back - ie the police in RL.
This happens until there is a balance. For balance to be achieved, there
have to be consequences for actions. I mean, if we are going to be
realistic, why not take out ressing altogether. You get killed, you
start a new character.
This would, of course, be unacceptable to the majority of players who
don't want that risk.
--
Louise Burfleet
Baal's Mistress
Doug Bora
Wilem Dragon (ccs...@interlog.comNOSPAM) wrote:
: Ya! Ya! I agree with you 100%. Maybe once the thrill of sitting dies
: down, Origin can begin working on the pissing aspects of the game. The
: girls can squat now! :)
Hrm. I think sitting will add something to the game. It should add a new
depth of realism, as rarely do you find the entire world always standing.
--
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
Jarrod A. Smith
Jeremy S wrote:
> >>I can't believe that the folks that created UO didn't learn from
> >>Diablo's mistakes. _Another_ promising online game shot down because
> >>of player-killing. "As much as the good players will allow." What an
> >>effin' scream! When pk is sanctioned, all the power is instantly
> >>delivered right into the pkiller's hands. Why? Because while we may
> >>care about the game, pkillers couldn't give a rat's ass for it.
> >>
>
> of its stronger points. Cheating is what bit Diablo's ass in the end.
Absolutely. The synergistic effect of PK+cheating completely ruined Diablo for
those of us who enjoyed playing by the rules and _not_ interested in PK. To
play the game the way it was designed is just a waste of time now. You can't
trust anyone and I've noticed that there is just no comoradery anymore. You
just slam through a couple levels of the dungeon hoping that you don't get
stabbed in the back with some cheat, never saying anything, sharing treasure,
helping each other, etc. It's become "every man/woman for him/herself" which
isn't the idea in a cooperative game like Diablo or UO where the adventuring
party should be well-rounded by characters with varied skills.
Fortunately, cheating will be much harder or maybe impossible in UO, so perhaps
the PKs will be on more even ground. At least if your character can manage to
get to a high level you can be assured that someone 10x as strong as you (via
cheats/hacks) won't come and ruin your game. However, that still doesn't fix
the fact that sometimes, when you've just finished fighting off 3 PKs in the
last hour, you just don't want to be bothered anymore. If you've got a goal in
the game (say you want to go hunt dragons in Destard or something) it's just
extremely annoying if you can't attempt to reach the goal because you keep
having to fight PKs and go back to town to stock up again. This happens in
Diablo all the time. It would be a shame if UO fell victim to this as well.
> >>When the checks on pk are limited to only certain small "safe" areas
> >>(i.e. towns), this in effect allows the player-killers to dictate the
> >>type of game everyone else MUST have when adventuring anywhere else (a
> >>game full of suspicion, unable to relax and actually *enjoy* the game
> >>instead of constantly being on the lookout for pkillers!). This, to
> >>me, is just intolerable and unfair, and utterly unfun for the player
> >>who actually wants to experience some depth in the game, and maybe
> >>actually accomplish something besides being a victim. As in Diablo,
> >>the pkers are killing the atmosphere of the game. I fail to see how
> >>UO will be worth the monthly rate...Diablo had no monthly fee, and
> >>still not worth the effort due to the pk.
> >>
>
> It seems that you have an opposite goal of pk'ers - which is good.
> What they want is to win, under any circumstances. What you're
> wanting is a challenge. Who wants to climb the same small mountain?
> Who wants to stop learning to play the guitar because it's too hard?
> The week willed IMO. If you are not that, then why would you want to
> play a game where _every_ enemy you encounter you can just run away
> from? I have never been in danger of being killed where I didn't
> attack or stand my ground. The monsters in UO are easily avoidable
> and, plainly put, will get boring when you see an ettin trudging down
> the road for the billionth time. Other players, on the other hand...
That's a good point. But again, maybe I've been challenged by PKs all night but
I'm trying to complete a quest. That would suck no matter how you slice it.
This is speculation on my part, but I think it's important to learn from
Diablo's mistakes where this problem is rampant. For example: the other night I
wanted to kill Diablo so my newest character could get a "dot". That was my
quest and it should have taken 1 or 2 hours tops. I ended up spending all night
in like 10 different games trying to find someone reliable to adventure with. I
got PKilled 4 times and still never made it to Diablo because I ran out of
time. That's crap.
> >>If there weren't such masses of immature, bored, emotionally-stunted,
> >>spiteful little snot-nosed wankers with access to online resources,
> >>pkilling might actually add some spice to gameplay. But as they love
> >>to proclaim, this is "real-life", and therefore we have to put up with
> >>their crap. I, for one, am not going to pay for that oh-so-special
> >>privilege. And I will let the folks responsible for UO know why.
> >>Maybe someday *someone* in the game industry will get it right! I
> >>would pay _out_my_nose_ for a truly immersive, balanced online rpg!
> >>
>
> You are completely correct in that it really stinks that it's so easy
> for extremely cowardly, crappy,
> no-significant-other-so-I'll-take-it-out-on-you kind of people are
> allowed in the game; but to get rid of pking altogether is not the
> solution. What would you rather have in life - for the government to
> be able to march into your house without a search warrant and take
> anything they want in the name of the 'king'? Or would you rather
> have it to where, sure, many more people get away with crimes, but you
> have your freedom. Freedom is expensive; but I'm willing to pay the
> price.
>
> >>Susan is right...player-killing should be the exception, and not the
> >>rule. I was looking forward to UO, but now...
>
> I really do hope they come out with a demo disk, and let people play
> for like a month on it. You would see that pk'ing is most likely
> going to cost money, therefore being less frequent, and that this will
> be a fun game just as long as you're playing an active role in the
> fun, and not just sitting there expecting to be spoon-fed.
>
That's a nice idea, but people online with a demo disk will have very little
reason to "play nice" since they haven't got a dime invested in the game. To
me, it seems like the demo players might have a greater propensity to want to
screw things up for everyone else just because they don't have a vested interest
in the UO world... just another point to consider. Maybe if the demo people
couldn't attack other PCs. That might work. In fact, it might even have the
good side effect of showing potential PKs how fun the game can be without PKing
everyone you see.
--
Jarrod A. Smith (jsm...@scripps.edu)
The Scripps Research Institute
http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith