My take on CD's Legend demo
McGrandpa
never finish the demo, and I may never finish the full game. The controls
are *worse* than Angel of Darkness controls. The control "engine" I have in
this demo (c'mon folks *PLEASE* tell me I got the wrong demo!!!!) is far too
simplistic, and built completely around the game consoles such as the XBOX.
I've never owned any of the game consoles. However, having a great many
games that were ported from consoles I can clearly see that I would *NOT*
enjoy playing even Centipede on one. I will never waste my money on any
game console.
Why?
The controls.
The first "big" games I played on any machine at all spoiled me. My first
big world games were Tombraider and Quake. In the controls schemes of
these two very different games are found the similarities that make them so
very playable on a PC. And Tombraider is most definitely a port from the
PlayStation. But CORE Design hit the important nails right on the head and
drove them all the way down in the very first stroke. The controls are
incremental. You can make fine movements both in directional motion
(running and walking) and in turning (in place and in motion) and in the
cameras LOOK mode. ALL motion control is every bit as 'incremental' as in
the first person shooter Quake. In Tombraider, you have the feel of
actually controlling Lara. Even in AoD I felt as if I were controlling
Lara. Albeit, a Lara that didn't fully obey the controls. In those
instances in AoD, the control *engine* took over and 'did' Lara FOR you.
VERY BAD stuff. We've all cussed about this one since AoD came out. BUT,
AoD was *better* because you did have fine control over Laras movement MOST
of the time.
In the Legend demo, we have NONE of this. What CD gave us is a higher
level of communication with the *control engine*. We just get to tell the
engine in very rudimentary simplistic ways what we want and the engine gives
us what IT wants to. That's a modular inclusion package written FOR a PC
by a console programmer and identical to Indy, PoP and BG&E. And whoever
thought that was a good thing to put in a PC game should be stood against a
wall and SHOT!!! There are several different PC game engines that use this
crap. This module will never be ready for prime time on a PC.
I cannot turn Lara just a bit, cannot walk Lara, have no choices in how to
climb or jump, all turns are a full 90 degrees and mouse *control* for
direction is ONLY active while Lara is moving, as soon as Lara stops, you're
moving the camera only. I found no way to get Lara to dive or EVER get her
to move sideways (strafe) in or out of water.
CD/EIDOS should **NOT** have ported this crap to the PC. Period.
I will reiterate for absolute clarity: whoever wrote this modular 'control
conversion package' for the PC should be stood against a wall and SHOT!!!
PS- now if I have missed something like changing 'modes' or what
EVER....and you really can control Lara effectively and incrementally, then
for pitys sake TELL ME!!!! Tell me that I've done something wrong or not
got my options right. PLEASE!!!!
McG. <recounting his blessings with AoD big time now>
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0dwXf.48045$1Z5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I've downloaded it. I've installed it. I've played a little of it. I
> may never finish the demo, and I may never finish the full game. The
> controls are *worse* than Angel of Darkness controls.
I'm sorry I have to stop right there before I've even finished reading. This
is simply not true. Go and play AoD again!
I think you're expecting too much, this is how most games in this genre are
produced, this is how their engines generally work. Mouse-control movements
is just the way games are at, at the moment.
I can accept you don't like it, but to say AoD controls are better
is...wow...I think it's...I dunno. I completely, 100% disagree with you on
that one!
Just thought I'd put in my $0.02 for others that will read this thread!
This may not help, but you can use shift to slow Lara down.
As much as you will hate this: a gamepad provides three levels of movement,
and therefore 'finesse'. You can go slowly (stealth, which is shift), you
can walk a la all the other games, or you can run.
I don't know how to get Lara to run in the demo by using the keyboard.
I really think that you will have to say goodbye to TR controls of old, as
much as I understand you don't want to. They won't be resurrected -
especially not for what Eidos are hoping will be a big hit game. Sadly, it's
not what the majority of game players now want. Remember, the majority of
game players play on consoles, and don't like to be challenged. I agree,
it's sad that that level of finesse, and therefore exploration, are not
evident in TRL. However, saying that, I still really enjoyed the demo, and I
think it's wrong to say the game is extremely bad, worse than AoD, a
complete stinking pile of sh** based upon the controls.
What about the graphics, the level design, Lara herself, equipment,
storyline, music?? You have not mentioned any of those things McG! I'd be
interested to know how you feel about the demo, control issues aside!
anm
news:442e...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0dwXf.48045$1Z5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > I've downloaded it. I've installed it. I've played a little of it. I
> > may never finish the demo, and I may never finish the full game. The
> > controls are *worse* than Angel of Darkness controls.
>
> I'm sorry I have to stop right there before I've even finished reading.
This
> is simply not true. Go and play AoD again!
> I think you're expecting too much, this is how most games in this genre
are
> produced, this is how their engines generally work. Mouse-control
movements
> is just the way games are at, at the moment.
> I can accept you don't like it, but to say AoD controls are better
> is...wow...I think it's...I dunno. I completely, 100% disagree with you on
> that one!
find them prety good actually. And the precision is amazing (when moving
boxes etc.).The only thing i do not like so very much of the game (the rest
is do like) is the begintheme and the fuzzy colors in the game. I have set
the Contrast at 90%, but the image it still a bit vague. I played it till
the three boxes, two in water and one on the dry part. I managed to get them
all in the water ;) in stead of the dry part where they should be. I think i
like the game so far. Not as good as the old ones, but better the AoD.
gr
Dick
DC
"anm" <geen...@ivmspam.nl> wrote in message
news:442eac41$0$65120$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...
Yeah! I found the fuzzy colours also - I think this might be part of what
they said about not having 'next generation graphics' in the demo...the
scenery looked a little out of focus.
And the opening/ beginning theme was just...weird!!
McGrandpa
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
news:442e...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
I'll rephrase that, correcting my generality: With what I've played, the
CONTROLS are a stinking pile of sh*t!!!!
I was staggered by how badly this demo performed controls wise. It really
IS worse, control wise, than AoD, generally speaking. SO FAR.
I've seen in another ng where they get Lara to swim under water. How?
evidently I really AM missing a control mode. Or two.
Graphics. They are good, it's a pretty enough picture. But in my thinking
at a DX8 level in the textures and model meshes. Yes, I can see the
differences between this demos quality of meshes and textures and AoD. At
the demos level, AoD's are honestly better. Remember, AoD was among the
very first DX9 games produced, and AoD really is a pretty looking game.
BUT I also know that this TRL demo isn't the full detail level in either
meshes or textures, that will come later. This is PS2 level stuff in the
demo. Even so, it's pretty good. All the particle effects, water, fire,
smoke, mist are quite well done. The lighting is very good. The Lara mesh
maps to the terrain well. Lara certainly fits her world well. All of the
audio is excellent. Keely Hawkes is a good choice for this one. She has a
very nice voice indeed, and her accent (being a Brit) is spot on. Lara
looks great. She gets wet and looks wet. She moves well. And I have to
stop there for lack of controls to see more of what Lara can do.
Thinking on the controls thing, if you can tell me what I need to do to get
Lara to clamber up onto a ledge she is holding onto differently than the
hop-up I get now (hand stand thing), have her do a swan dive into the pool
with waterfall, and how to swim UNDER water, I think that will put me into
another control mode (like Erik mentioned) that will drastically improve
what I'm seeing.
Right now, like it or not, AoD does top what i have at this moment. And
where is the strafe/sidestep key?
The game plays a bit too fast on my system. No kidding, and that's with
running 1024x768 single GPU and I have 4 instances of PSP running each with
work in them! Game speed looks like a DVD playing at 1.5x!!! I'll shut
everything else down and up the res to 1280x1024 if it'll let me. This is
like a flea circus in overdrive right now LOL! I will also set all options
to defaults and write down what-does-what and try it again. Look, I'll KEEP
on trying again and again and again; there is no-one that *WANTS* this game
to play well more than I do!!!! And short of buying a console controller,
I will do whatever needed to get Legend to play well with keyboard and
mouse!!! Even if I have to use function keys to change control levels!!!
As long as I can DO it, that's all I want.
note: EIDOS says there will be a patch/unlock for the PC details levels on
April 7th.
McG.
McGrandpa
readme again and try all the controls out...
McG.
McGrandpa
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
McG.
anm
news:ZnyXf.33009$uX5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I'll rephrase that, correcting my generality: With what I've played, the
> CONTROLS are a stinking pile of sh*t!!!!
and mouse for controls, i dont nkow what you do but you must do something
wrong otherwise you would see Aod was far more worse. AoD played louzy even
with the best videocard. The controls of that game stank like hell. What
about the graphics they disappoint me a bit because the colors are more
monochrome then i was used to even the colors in AoD were a lot better. It
has almost no contrast. And theres nothing to change that, contrast high
settings doesnt help either. That stinks. The theme really stinks too, the
begining looked cheap and sounded cheap. What the hell were they thinking
when the made that? The gameplay i liked and the looks are also pretty good
(except for the low contrast image and fuzzy colors of course). Mixed bag so
far. And Grandpa, you really do something wrong if you cant control lara.
gr
@ amuse-guile@isletsoflangerhan.org Dungeonbunny
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0dwXf.48045$1Z5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
You know that you and I tend to like the same games-right? :) Just popping
that in there so you don't squash me *too* hard ok? ;) I deliberately
forgot previous TR games and that was the right thing to do I think- take
Prince of Persia- slap the Lara Croft face on -add a touch of Indie and you
just about have Legend. PW might hate this too- as he was never a fan of the
new PoP with the ever changing camera angles.
Personally, apart from the swimming mode which almost pre-dated TR1 which is
quite a feat ;) - I think my comments previously about its lowered price
being an indicator was pretty good- it's tosh- amusing tosh for a wet and
rainy day but like Indie she needs no real skill -so far shown anyway- to
overcome opponents and she won't be keeping me up nights playing past
midnight :) Frankly it held no surprises for me- and I rarely looked at
screenies etc as I wanted to wait- superb graphics but a lightweight game-my
opinion, so I'll be putting this way down my play list after Oblivion and
Half Life Aftermath.
Dungeonbunny <tosses in two cents and goes back to Oblivion ;) >
J.H.
Personally, I was amazed at how much like TR1 everything looked and
felt. Since TR1 is the only real TR game :) it's exactly the game I was
hoping for!
I deliberately took about 2 hours getting through the demo. Just
exploring and seeing what I could and couldn't do. Learned all the
moves, goofed around a little here and there but mostly I just spend my
time wandering through the landscape checking everything out.
GREAT!
I loved it. And the control system was pretty easy to pick up on. I'm
a fan of Prince of Persia, so single handed key combos come easy. This
control system is nowhere near that complicated, but still, it's a lot
more advanced than the TR's of old.
I can't wait for the whole game.
Tara
> Personally, I was amazed at how much like TR1 everything looked and felt.
> I can't wait for the whole game.
Yes, I agree! The new controls can be really frustrating for a
while, but once you get used to them, it's really cool.
Moving boxes around is a lot more fun. And I love how Lara's
eyes move when she's looking at you from up close.
And I'm using a lowly GeForce2 for this. Couldn't believe
it was so smooth and good-looking on this stupid old card.
Now I'm wondering if I'm going to bother upgrading to
an ATI Radeon 9600 as I'd planned to!
Tara
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
F. IF you keep up with the demo, Lara will explain this, as she will explain
other things, of course. I don't know how far you fgot...evidently just
under halfway perhaps...
> Graphics. They are good, it's a pretty enough picture. But in my
> thinking at a DX8 level in the textures and model meshes. Yes, I can see
> the differences between this demos quality of meshes and textures and AoD.
> At the demos level, AoD's are honestly better. Remember, AoD was among
> the very first DX9 games produced, and AoD really is a pretty looking
> game. BUT I also know that this TRL demo isn't the full detail level in
> either meshes or textures, that will come later. This is PS2 level stuff
> in the demo. Even so, it's pretty good. All the particle effects,
> water, fire, smoke, mist are quite well done. The lighting is very good.
> The Lara mesh maps to the terrain well. Lara certainly fits her world
> well. All of the audio is excellent. Keely Hawkes is a good choice for
> this one. She has a very nice voice indeed, and her accent (being a Brit)
> is spot on. Lara looks great. She gets wet and looks wet. She moves
> well. And I have to stop there for lack of controls to see more of what
> Lara can do.
> Thinking on the controls thing, if you can tell me what I need to do to
> get Lara to clamber up onto a ledge she is holding onto differently than
> the hop-up I get now (hand stand thing), have her do a swan dive into the
> pool with waterfall, and how to swim UNDER water, I think that will put me
> into another control mode (like Erik mentioned) that will drastically
> improve what I'm seeing.
I have to go to work today myself, but if no-one has answered by the time I
get home I'll have a fiddle around and see what I can come up with ;)
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
lwol! I like that....
Pistol Whipped
04/01/2006 09:35 AM, and I could have sworn it said ...
> I've downloaded it. I've installed it. I've played a little of it.
<snipped all that ranting>
McG, play a bit more. Read the Controls list carefully. I know,
without a manual it's not simple to figure out modifiers rather than
direct actions, but *most* of what you're after is there.
When I get more time, I'll post my key mapping ... cause the original ..
sucked wind.
Think FarCry, think FEAR. Mouse in right hand, all other controls on
left hand (numpad, and surrounding area)
In short, I've played in to the puzzle ... think I might have made a bad
first move with the boxes ... but they promised multiple solutions ...
and I'm praying there is no way to screw it up so it can't be solved.
(they wouldn't make *that* mistake, would they?)
<*Also afraid that "lose all your progress" message was true!>
All in all, I'd say that Eidos and CD have taken a great PC game and
turned it into a great console game (on a PC!)
Why:
1. Checkpoints are for morons, when to save is actually *part* of the
strategy. Not having to do that does *not* make the game better! It
makes it different, it makes it simpler, it makes it non-TR. Like I
said, for little kiddies and morons.
2. The wrong kind of fun. The reason I was drawn to the TR series has
nothing to do with any reasons I might find to play this game. With the
possible exception of the scenery (which *was* a *big* let-down in AOD).
I played TR because of the strategy aspect, this game, I can tell from
just the demo, is just puzzles and combat ... the simple combination
does not imply the synergy that is strategy. Example: FEAR had little
or no strategy, FarCry had a fair bit.
3. No free roaming. The landscape may be spacious, but at no time did I
feel I could try things that should not be done. I did any way, and
failed in *every* attempt to go anywhere that was not in the main game
path. There were no alternate routes, no dead ends, no places to climb
other than the ones you *had* to use.
4. Ok, the controls, in so much as they further the intent of the game,
are actually pretty good ... once you learn how to walk instead of run
(and I don't mean crouch).
Missing controls that are *necessary* for TR:
A. side step (or as McG called it "strafe"), because TR is about getting
in *just the right position* to see what you need to see in order that
you may plan your attack (be it puzzle or combat). The fact that it is
missing speaks volumes about the intent of the game play! (see above)
B. "Look". First, I don't like having to be an "ant" in order to look
upward. It gives me no sense of distance or scale. "Look" not only let
you see the whole scenery, it changed the position of the camera to
Lara's viewpoint (well almost), like a switch to "first person mode".
This is the one that let you judge distance, get a "lay of the land". A
camera circling Lara like she is some kind of "prey" does not give you
the same perspective.
C. Camera control. Yes, it was pretty good, especially compared to PoP.
For the majority of the time I was not confused. Until I got to the
chain to chain jump. Here the camera kept trying to let me *see* Lara!
This one thing is *the single most telling point*. The designers were
more worried about how the game *looks* than how it *feels*.
D. Control Granularity. Yes, granularity. I did not say combination,
nor "devices", nor philosophy. To use any of those terms would be to
imply that you can do all the same things with Lara that you used to be
able to do. That would be a LIE!
Specifically missing control characteristics:
1. side step
2. "strength" of jump (not completely missing)
3. when to grab (without this, it just isn't TR)
4. look (without it you can not judge for #2)
5. camera stability (always behind Lara, whether it "looks good" or not)
This final point is what I think McG was (and I am guessing many others
will be) on about. They have a pretty good control system, I will give
them that. But it is the *WRONG KIND OF CONTROL SYSTEM*. At least in
AoD, they *TRIED* to give you the feel of actually controlling Lara. In
Legends, it is "command and watch", not "participate".
They have lost *most* of the sense of "being there" that TR is renowned for.
It's not all bad. I do like the control over objects. *That* at least
was done very well. Aiming and judging distance is stilted, but its
still there. The camera angle is *too free* to get a good sense of
distance.
But everything considered ... I'm very afraid that the game which I
have preordered will turn out to be ... (drum roll please) ....
"3D Mario Brothers With Tits"
---
PW
McGrandpa
handstand, no swandive, no walk key, no crawl key, has sneak key, uses HAVOK
physics, no CTRL key (Action) to stoop and pick up stuff, Lara does not step
backward, swimming has severe untreatable consolitis of the controls, but it
does look really good.
Not sure why background colors are fuzzy. made for TV perhaps. Laras mesh
needs the same help I spoke of when the first 3D vid came out. This is THAT
Lara mesh in this demo. PW spoke to wondering if at one spot in one of the
demo vids if Laras directions might get backwards, like in PoP. I found
they did and in that spot. Weird.
The camera view that lets us see Lara and the world behaves really well.
That's a very pleasant surprise.
All in all, once one DOES get used to controlling Lara, this should be a fun
TR.
Laras animation sequences are good. They flow together seamlessly, no
matter what she's doing or where. The world physics are the best I've seen
yet from ANY TR game. Lara might jump around like a monkey, but she does it
believably. Interaction with the world is limited (by consolitis) but
exists.
Game speed. On my system, the X2 4800+, 2 gigs ram, 2 7800GTX's, XP Pro
x64; the game plays too fast. Nobody else has mentioned this anywhere I've
seen yet, but the game does seem to play about 1.5 times faster than "a game
should". Like the other TR games. They all seem to play about the same
rate, this one simply plays faster. I'll install it on my P4 2.66 rig, it's
a lot slower than this one, and see how it behaves there.
Ok folks, I have this hatred of console controls on a PC. And we've got
them in Legend. And it doesn't matter a bit why I hate them I just do.
Ok, so other than my noise making about that aspect, I AM looking at Legend,
the Tombraiding Game. I doubt there is any person who wants to enjoy this
game more than I do. Bear with me on my controls bashing. I'll adjust to
them eventually and I WILL play Legend. Nothing show-stopping has showed up
yet.
McG.
McGrandpa
"Dungeonbunny" <Dungeonbunny @ amuse...@isletsoflangerhan.org> wrote in
message news:egDXf.13186$g76....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
If you remember back that far, we downloaded the Indie demo the same day.
You were much more curious about the adventure of the full game than I was.
I ran the demo, saw the controls issues, lost interest altogether and never
played the game. Same with PoP.
bg&e is THE most definitive console port to PC I've ever seen. Ergo, the
worst possible control scheme for a PC. Unfortunately for me, it's an
interesting little story...so I've kept it and will keep at it until I see
the whole BG&E story.
>
> Personally, apart from the swimming mode which almost pre-dated TR1 which
> is
LOL!
> quite a feat ;) - I think my comments previously about its lowered price
> being an indicator was pretty good- it's tosh- amusing tosh for a wet and
> rainy day but like Indie she needs no real skill -so far shown anyway- to
> overcome opponents and she won't be keeping me up nights playing past
> midnight :) Frankly it held no surprises for me- and I rarely looked at
> screenies etc as I wanted to wait- superb graphics but a lightweight
> game-my
> opinion, so I'll be putting this way down my play list after Oblivion and
> Half Life Aftermath.
>
> Dungeonbunny <tosses in two cents and goes back to Oblivion ;) >
>
Legend is a game that should appeal big time to all the consolers. PC
support seems an afterthought.
Enjoying sunsets in Oblivion, and looking forward to Aftermath. And
respectable PC controls ;)
McG.
McGrandpa
"Tara" <nor...@void.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.04.01....@void.net...
you can get short of shader model 3.0 What we are seeing in the demo is
less (as stated in the readme) than the full version of the game.
personally, I hate the controls scheme, and i'll leave that issue right
there.
The game looks like TR hasn't since the first. The levels have this big
wide open feel to them, just like the first TR did. but the world isn't
just a bunch of blocks, it's more like the world really is.
We're supposed to have a surprise.... TR1 is supposed to be included in one
of the ports of the game. not sure which.
McG.
Tara
>
> Not sure why background colors are fuzzy.
This, along with your other comment about the game seeming
to go too fast, suggest that maybe there is a problem with
your video card. Did you try other video modes, and disabling
some video features, just to see if it made a difference?
I'm using a GeForce2, not even one of the better brands, and
it looks great to me. But then, I haven't played any other
video games since AoD, so anything with Lara in it would look
good to me at this point.
> Bear with me on my controls bashing.
No problem with me, at least. Heck, if no one bashes the
controls, it's not Tomb Raider. :-P They went from
very manual controls that never worked right, to too
automated controls that don't work right.
I have a deep fear that if a Tomb Raider is ever released
with decent controls, it will be the last ever!
Tara
J.H.
TR1? Like, a revamped, cleaned up, XP ready version? WOO HOO!
I love that game...
And yeah, that wide open, spacious feeling defines TR1. This demo
recapured it very well.
Inu-Yasha
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
play. I went to my Logitech gamepad first, and found it a bit hard to
equate the buttons with the PC commands, but finally did it. McG, all will
be forgiven if you get to see Lara's hips sway when she walks,
unfortunately, the gamepad analog joystick is needed for that, as a light
push is stealth, a medium push is walk and a full push is run. I did not
discover yet a keyboard equivalent. But the game pad has no camera control
that I have discovered. No backup walk or jump on either the keyboard or
gamepad unless I haven't found it yet (I'm going to check out the control
configuration option to see). On the swiming front, on the keyboard you
push F while swiming to make her go down, and space to swim up. I figured
out the swinging on limbs and jumping between ledges, incluging over the
shoulder jumps to ledges behind you, but when it comes to lining up for
jumps to cross spaces, or to grab a rope/vine, the gamepad is very very
sensitive, and I keep falling off the edge. I find that things dropped by
the enemy will disappear too fast for me to see 'em and then pick 'em up. I
thought the checkpoints were save points which I could use to load the game,
so I packed it in, in frustration after missing the 2nd rope used for
swinging several times, with the thought that I would load from there, but
not in the demo at least. I mostly used the gamepad becase I am use to it
now from other PC games that use it, and it seemed easier to control Lara,
so I am not up yet fully on the keyboard. She does reverse or turn sidways
too quickly for my taste, but most functions seem prtetty good otherwise. I
would live with the controls for certain if they would reissue/remake TR1, 2
and 3 with the new graphics, Lara looks just fantastic to this old guy who
played through TR1, 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 with all the add-ons. Love that Lara
walk!! ^__^
Inu-Yasha
Feh!!
Stormstruck
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
> Working on it.. no sidestep, no backflip, no sideflip, no LOOK key, did
> handstand, no swandive, no walk key, no crawl key, has sneak key, uses
> HAVOK physics, no CTRL key (Action) to stoop and pick up stuff
Use the E key to pick stuff up/interact etc. E is used also in conjunction
with the binoculars to analyse stuff. Also when you are on a rope you use E
and the up or down to climb up and down the rope.
Delete turns on laras "headlights" ;)
Home/End/PgUp/PgDown allows you to use stuff in yr inventory, Id be more
specific but my kid is playing the demo so I am posting this form my laptop
;)
Q is the grappling hook thingo
G is draw weapon, H fire. Or just use the left mouse button and she will
draw and fire with it.
Back flip is only when her guns are drawn, not sure if she has to be in
combat for it to work, only used it in combat.
If you are hanging off a ledge, rope etc F makes you let go. F also makes
you dive under when in the water, space brings you to the surface.
McGrandpa I'm with you on the controls. Although the full version might
allow remapping so there is hope there. As I played today I found I was a
lot better with the controls than I was yesterday. Hubby heard me swearing
and came to see what was up and I said the fucking controls!!! He told me
to keep at it, so I did ;)
We should start a cute things Lara does thread... hmm I'll do it now!
Inu-Yasha
"Inu-Yasha" <tjar...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RyFXf.118213$g47....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
> news:442f...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>
>> "McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ZnyXf.33009$uX5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
>>> news:442e...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
press up arrow or W, voila. I like the way she shakes water off her hands,
and feet. I noticed a couple of places with graphic errors, when she kicks
the first boulder, it can roll right through her legs, also when she gets to
the area where she shoots the pair of guards, if you move her towards and
over where they were standing, she walks through the rocks rather than on to
them. Still, I love Lara's motion! ^_^
Inu-Yasha
Feh!!
Inu-Yasha
Stormstruck
"Stormstruck" <storms...@NOSPAMMYhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:442f269f$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
Stormstruck
"Pistol Whipped" <pwhi...@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_HEXf.87032$_c.7...@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> But everything considered ... I'm very afraid that the game which I have
> preordered will turn out to be ... (drum roll please) ....
>
> "3D Mario Brothers With Tits"
>
>
> ---
> PW
>
>
BWAHAHAHAH Quote of the year!
Mustang
> I've downloaded it. I've installed it. I've played a little of it. I
> may never finish the demo, and I may never finish the full game.
Well, there's not as many familiar faces here as I expected, but one or two
:) Hello ;)
Haven't been following TRL at all, so was met with the pleasant surprise of
news of a demo today. After a several hour download I got going. Hmm ...
pretty good! And of course, how could I resist checking in here to see what
the overall opinion was? :D
Looks nice (bar the fuzzy graphics which must be especially for TV), plays
reasonably well, and feels like TR - all bar the controls, of course. But I
never expected them to be the same. The mouse-look is nice to have, finally,
but the rest of the controls are a bit clumsy at times. Not surprised to see
McG up in arms about them ;)
The controls do work well, but of course they work *too well*, taking out a
lot of the skill of the original games. And the swimming controls are
terrible. Well, they wouldn't be as bad if the use of F or Space didn't
cause the camera to try to look in the direction you're going. Moving
objects is very nice, but I'd prefer if the controls were related to Lara
instead of the camera position in this case.
Don't care for all the hints, like the grapple indicator, or the binocular
mode for - dare I say it - stupid people, or people with no patience. I like
to get stuck from time to time, and not have everything on a plate so I can
constantly make progress. Same applies to controls - made so that they
'work' for everyone without too much trouble, rather than requiring practice
or patience or much skill. So, shame it's a game made for console gamers who
get through games like some people get through underwear, but oh well.
I'm not disappointed; it's nice :) Runs very nicely on my moderate 1.8GHz &
Radeon 9800 machine, at 1024x768. The default 640x480 setting immediately
set off the "console game port" alert. Indeed some of the graphics/sprites
are meant for this resolution, like the reticle when manually aiming with
the 'z' key, or the 'end of demo' message. Just scaled up small graphics.
I'll no doubt get it soon as an interesting diversion. Game really seems
rather good, but at the same time ... I didn't feel hugely disappointed when
the demo ended. So I think it isn't going to be as addictive as the original
games, which I really struggled to pull myself away from at times.
- Mustang
McGrandpa
"Pistol Whipped" <pwhi...@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_HEXf.87032$_c.7...@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> 04/01/2006 09:35 AM, and I could have sworn it said ...
>> I've downloaded it. I've installed it. I've played a little of it.
>
> <snipped all that ranting>
>
> McG, play a bit more. Read the Controls list carefully. I know, without
> a manual it's not simple to figure out modifiers rather than direct
> actions, but *most* of what you're after is there.
Ok I will. did I mention it plays TOO fast?
>
> When I get more time, I'll post my key mapping ... cause the original ..
> sucked wind.
yeah, I'd certainly appreciate that!
>
> Think FarCry, think FEAR. Mouse in right hand, all other controls on left
> hand (numpad, and surrounding area)
Ok, got that. BUT, with both Far Cry and FEAR, there are more controls TO
remap PW!!!
>
> In short, I've played in to the puzzle ... think I might have made a bad
> first move with the boxes ... but they promised multiple solutions ... and
> I'm praying there is no way to screw it up so it can't be solved. (they
> wouldn't make *that* mistake, would they?)
> <*Also afraid that "lose all your progress" message was true!>
The checkpoints the game 'checks' are not saved to disk anywhere i've found.
In fact, all you get in this demo is what's installed in the game folder.
there is no ini or cfg file to look at or edit at all. Anyway, if she dies,
the game will go to most recent checkpoint. If you exit the demo, you start
at the beginning.
>
> All in all, I'd say that Eidos and CD have taken a great PC game and
> turned it into a great console game (on a PC!)
which ain't working out so well for some of us. :(
>
> Why:
> 1. Checkpoints are for morons, when to save is actually *part* of the
> strategy. Not having to do that does *not* make the game better! It
> makes it different, it makes it simpler, it makes it non-TR. Like I said,
> for little kiddies and morons.
agreed, however, it appears in the full game for the PC the load and save
menu options will work. Hopefully there will be a screenshot key to map
too!
>
> 2. The wrong kind of fun. The reason I was drawn to the TR series has
> nothing to do with any reasons I might find to play this game. With the
> possible exception of the scenery (which *was* a *big* let-down in AOD).
> I played TR because of the strategy aspect, this game, I can tell from
> just the demo, is just puzzles and combat ... the simple combination does
> not imply the synergy that is strategy. Example: FEAR had little or no
> strategy, FarCry had a fair bit.
>
> 3. No free roaming. The landscape may be spacious, but at no time did I
> feel I could try things that should not be done. I did any way, and
> failed in *every* attempt to go anywhere that was not in the main game
> path. There were no alternate routes, no dead ends, no places to climb
> other than the ones you *had* to use.
this will turn out to be the showstopper in the end. completely on rails
and no feeling of being 'connected' to the game.
>
> 4. Ok, the controls, in so much as they further the intent of the game,
> are actually pretty good ... once you learn how to walk instead of run
> (and I don't mean crouch).
>
> Missing controls that are *necessary* for TR:
>
> A. side step (or as McG called it "strafe"), because TR is about getting
> in *just the right position* to see what you need to see in order that you
> may plan your attack (be it puzzle or combat). The fact that it is
> missing speaks volumes about the intent of the game play! (see above)
>
> B. "Look". First, I don't like having to be an "ant" in order to look
> upward. It gives me no sense of distance or scale. "Look" not only let
> you see the whole scenery, it changed the position of the camera to Lara's
> viewpoint (well almost), like a switch to "first person mode". This is the
> one that let you judge distance, get a "lay of the land". A camera
> circling Lara like she is some kind of "prey" does not give you the same
> perspective.
>
> C. Camera control. Yes, it was pretty good, especially compared to PoP.
> For the majority of the time I was not confused. Until I got to the chain
> to chain jump. Here the camera kept trying to let me *see* Lara! This one
> thing is *the single most telling point*. The designers were more worried
> about how the game *looks* than how it *feels*.
Good point, though I haven't got there just yet.
>
> D. Control Granularity. Yes, granularity. I did not say combination, nor
> "devices", nor philosophy. To use any of those terms would be to imply
> that you can do all the same things with Lara that you used to be able to
> do. That would be a LIE!
Granularity = incremental movements.
>
> Specifically missing control characteristics:
> 1. side step
> 2. "strength" of jump (not completely missing)
> 3. when to grab (without this, it just isn't TR)
> 4. look (without it you can not judge for #2)
> 5. camera stability (always behind Lara, whether it "looks good" or
> not)
Ok, I pretty much agree with all that, me. But like DC said, "the old
scheme is gone and won't be ressurected"
>
> This final point is what I think McG was (and I am guessing many others
> will be) on about. They have a pretty good control system, I will give
> them that. But it is the *WRONG KIND OF CONTROL SYSTEM*. At least in
> AoD, they *TRIED* to give you the feel of actually controlling Lara. In
> Legends, it is "command and watch", not "participate".
>
> They have lost *most* of the sense of "being there" that TR is renowned
> for.
That's pretty much what it's done for me. I don't feel like I'm *IN* this
game. And it's not the view, it's the feel.
>
> It's not all bad. I do like the control over objects. *That* at least
> was done very well. Aiming and judging distance is stilted, but its still
> there. The camera angle is *too free* to get a good sense of distance.
>
>
> But everything considered ... I'm very afraid that the game which I have
> preordered will turn out to be ... (drum roll please) ....
>
> "3D Mario Brothers With Tits"
LOL! never played that one. so to me, it's an earthbound BG&E with
somewhat more usable controls.
>
>
> ---
> PW
>
>
McGrandpa
TR1, 2, 3 and 4 were definitely playable with the control scheme used in
them. oddly enough, Chronicles had even more 'advanced' controls stuff.
Lara could do more things. But that one never felt like a seperate game to
me. It was like the Gold levels for TR4.
So i'd consider the same controls found in Tr4 to be 'decent controls' :)
now. I know I'm sure wishing I had them now!
Vid card/game speed. ok i've got a new profile loaded with just about
everything that exists disabled. Will try it in a mo. If that don't work,
I'll try the demo on my P4 rig with a FX5900-128 meg card in it. That
machine is a LOT slower than this one. In fact, it's near the min spec
listed for the game.
I am happy that so many of you tombies can get hold of the new controls
scheme and enjoy it. I'm just a die hard in this; I cannot stand the
console type of gameplay even on a console, let alone on a PC. The games
just don't feel right.
McG.
McGrandpa
"Stormstruck" <storms...@NOSPAMMYhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:442f269f$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> news:wXEXf.35062$uX5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>>>
>>>
>> Working on it.. no sidestep, no backflip, no sideflip, no LOOK key, did
>> handstand, no swandive, no walk key, no crawl key, has sneak key, uses
>> HAVOK physics, no CTRL key (Action) to stoop and pick up stuff
>
> Use the E key to pick stuff up/interact etc. E is used also in
> conjunction with the binoculars to analyse stuff. Also when you are on a
> rope you use E and the up or down to climb up and down the rope.
>
> Delete turns on laras "headlights" ;)
they've really homogenized the keys huh?
I'll work on it. A lot.
>
> Home/End/PgUp/PgDown allows you to use stuff in yr inventory, Id be more
> specific but my kid is playing the demo so I am posting this form my
> laptop ;)
>
> Q is the grappling hook thingo
>
> G is draw weapon, H fire. Or just use the left mouse button and she will
> draw and fire with it.
>
> Back flip is only when her guns are drawn, not sure if she has to be in
> combat for it to work, only used it in combat.
>
> If you are hanging off a ledge, rope etc F makes you let go. F also makes
> you dive under when in the water, space brings you to the surface.
I *know* the 'F' key now... that's how I saw Laras deaths are in full HAVOK
physics! ;o) She just flows down the landscape....LOL!
>
> McGrandpa I'm with you on the controls. Although the full version might
> allow remapping so there is hope there. As I played today I found I was a
> lot better with the controls than I was yesterday. Hubby heard me
> swearing and came to see what was up and I said the fucking controls!!!
> He told me to keep at it, so I did ;)
LOL! He's probably used to hearing all the #^%^#* with each new TR game :)
McG.
Mustang
news:%iGXf.1500$8o....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
Additional:
To see Lara walk without a gamepad/joystick, just repeatedly tap the Shift
key as you move (a few times a second). Do it at the right frequency and she
will walk, since the animation blends from run to sneak via the walk
animation, it seems. Tapping it causes Lara to never get into either the run
or sneak animation.
'F' on its own makes Lara crouch, and then you can move around whilst
crouched. Don't remember reading that one anywhere or being shown it in
game.
The 'depth of field' setting in the display menu will remove the blurry
background/distant scenery, if you don't like that (it's a bit overdone I
think). Still not sure how to remove the other smudges around Lara or areas
of high contrast. Hopefully will be an option for it in the full game!
This seems useless, but if you manually aim your guns with 'z', you can fire
the grapple in the same direction you're aiming by pressing 'q' as normal.
After that, the grapple fires forwards as normal (unless you aim again with
'z'). I don't like the jump+grapple needed to start a swing on the grapple.
Would be better if it could be aimed in this way, but no.
- Mustang
McGrandpa
"Inu-Yasha" <tjar...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RyFXf.118213$g47....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
snip
Ok, got all that on the controls. I gotta go fiddle with the stuff.
I will agree with ya completely on Laras hips as soon as I can slow em down
a bit. The boob bounce looks like they're on paint shakers here :) You
should see her swinging around that tree limb over the creek!
I guess CD weren't figuring anyone to be using a X2 4800+ or FX60!!! gee!
McG.
drago...@yahoo.com.au
freaked me out...but it still looke dcool and neato!
McGrandpa
up in arms about the controls! They do leave one feeling sort of
disconnected from the game. Like you're not really IN the game. It's still
got promise as an interesting diversion, like you said.
Right now, I'm really missing having a screenshot key :\
McG.
@ amuse-guile@isletsoflangerhan.org Dungeonbunny
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> "Dungeonbunny" <Dungeonbunny @ amuse...@isletsoflangerhan.org> wrote in
> message news:egDXf.13186$g76....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> >
> > "McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:0dwXf.48045$1Z5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > You know that you and I tend to like the same games-right? :) Just
> > popping
> > that in there so you don't squash me *too* hard ok? ;) I deliberately
> > forgot previous TR games and that was the right thing to do I think-
take
> > Prince of Persia- slap the Lara Croft face on -add a touch of Indie and
> > you
> > just about have Legend. PW might hate this too- as he was never a fan of
> > the
> > new PoP with the ever changing camera angles.
>
> If you remember back that far, we downloaded the Indie demo the same day.
> You were much more curious about the adventure of the full game than I
was.
> I ran the demo, saw the controls issues, lost interest altogether and
never
> played the game. Same with PoP.
> bg&e is THE most definitive console port to PC I've ever seen. Ergo, the
> worst possible control scheme for a PC. Unfortunately for me, it's an
> interesting little story...so I've kept it and will keep at it until I see
> the whole BG&E story.
Actually I never finished the second Indie- you had to whip down some
corridor or other- almost gave me RSI ;) I decided life was worth more than
RSI :) I only put up with PoP because of the amazing graphics :-) just
bought the new trilogy on special offer...............
>
> >
> > Personally, apart from the swimming mode which almost pre-dated TR1
which
> > is
>
> LOL!
Heh! well it made the swimming *so* last century-worthy of a point and click
almost-and when she *had* been rather graceful in most games :) I remember
discovering swimming in the first levels of TR1 and nice music- this demo- I
discovered how to battle my way round fallen debris and still have air ;)
>
> > quite a feat ;) - I think my comments previously about its lowered price
> > being an indicator was pretty good- it's tosh- amusing tosh for a wet
and
> > rainy day but like Indie she needs no real skill -so far shown anyway-
to
> > overcome opponents and she won't be keeping me up nights playing past
> > midnight :) Frankly it held no surprises for me- and I rarely looked at
> > screenies etc as I wanted to wait- superb graphics but a lightweight
> > game-my
> > opinion, so I'll be putting this way down my play list after Oblivion
and
> > Half Life Aftermath.
> >
> > Dungeonbunny <tosses in two cents and goes back to Oblivion ;) >
> >
> Legend is a game that should appeal big time to all the consolers. PC
> support seems an afterthought.
Perhaps- a lot of games are that way these days- my biggest gripe was the
colossal target when she homes in on enemies- there is just no finesse as
there is in Half Life 2 say- admittedly thats a game in a different
genre.But I would want more skill involved beyond pressing the *g* and *h*
button like some homing pigeon and slug away.Bargain basement price for a
bargain basement game sweetie :)
>
> Enjoying sunsets in Oblivion, and looking forward to Aftermath. And
> respectable PC controls ;)
> McG.
Well at least you are enjoying something- I have had a few nice sunsets in
Oblivion -nothing like as good as the one I have seen on Bloodmoon-but don't
get me started on the lack of footprints and sparkle in the Oblivion snow
..............;) I am running Oblivion on Sam- but since Legend was a dl -I
ran that on the rocket and it ran pretty good with just the P4 2.4 and the
now old 9800 Pro so looking forward to seeing what goodies are to be had
with the 7800GT and the AMD X2 4200+2.2:) . I must just find the time to
load up Sam with all his protection gear and get him online finally.I have
been working too many hours lately :/ I have pretty blue internal leds for
him now as well :) How teenie is that? ;) lol
DB
DC
... but...but!! Yeah, and remember how you attacked in TR1-5??? Spacebar -
auto lock on (shift to switch targets) - and CTRL to fire!
I guess you're not saying that it's a different system to those earlier TRs,
just that it's the way it is...but skill in targeting was never really a big
part of TR.
>>
>> Enjoying sunsets in Oblivion, and looking forward to Aftermath. And
>> respectable PC controls ;)
>> McG.
>
> Well at least you are enjoying something- I have had a few nice sunsets in
> Oblivion -nothing like as good as the one I have seen on Bloodmoon-but
> don't
> get me started on the lack of footprints and sparkle in the Oblivion snow
> ..............;) I am running Oblivion on Sam- but since Legend was a
> dl -I
> ran that on the rocket and it ran pretty good with just the P4 2.4 and the
> now old 9800 Pro so looking forward to seeing what goodies are to be had
> with the 7800GT and the AMD X2 4200+2.2:) . I must just find the time to
> load up Sam with all his protection gear and get him online finally.I have
> been working too many hours lately :/ I have pretty blue internal leds
> for
> him now as well :) How teenie is that? ;) lol
>
> DB
>
>
The occasional performance drops in Oblivion is really getting to me - I've
since disabled HDR (and to be honest, I don't think it's all the exciting
this HDR business, I haven't noticed much difference but maybe I don't know
what to look for, in which case I guess it's not a big issue...) and gone
back to AA...oh sweet AA...that's surely the most annoying thing about
enabling HDR, you lose AA...grrr....
And McG! You talk about console resolutions! What about Oblivion?!?! It's
taking me a little while to get use to the ridiculously HUGE inventory/stats
screens! Grrr...oh! And the necessity for 'artificial levelling' to ensure a
balanced character build, don't get me started...
Otherwise it's fun...but I have to admit it plays extraordinarily similar to
Morrowind. Extraordinarily similar. But, I've just started, so we will wait
and see.
John Whitworth
>
> C. Camera control. Yes, it was pretty good, especially compared to PoP.
> For the majority of the time I was not confused. Until I got to the
> chain to chain jump. Here the camera kept trying to let me *see* Lara!
> This one thing is *the single most telling point*. The designers were
> more worried about how the game *looks* than how it *feels*.
>
guess, the mouse), to change the viewpoint to be directly behind Lara.
It works well, once you know it's there. I didn't on my first run
through, and, like you, some of the chain jumps and rope swings seemed
impossible to start with!
JW
John Whitworth
>
> C. Camera control. Yes, it was pretty good, especially compared to PoP.
> For the majority of the time I was not confused. Until I got to the
> chain to chain jump. Here the camera kept trying to let me *see* Lara!
> This one thing is *the single most telling point*. The designers were
> more worried about how the game *looks* than how it *feels*.
>
McGrandpa
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
Wierd about that huh? no AA + hdr :\ I hear the X1900XTX can do it now
though.
>
> And McG! You talk about console resolutions! What about Oblivion?!?! It's
> taking me a little while to get use to the ridiculously HUGE
> inventory/stats screens! Grrr...oh! And the necessity for 'artificial
> levelling' to ensure a balanced character build, don't get me started...
There are LOTS of gripes in the official forums about those design choices
with the 'cosmetics'... which do impact how you go about playing the game.
I expec there will be some changes in the first patch. Bethesda is being
very quiet now. I bet they're working on that at the mo. My problem is the
CTD's with it. Dunno why it's doing it but it is. They're working on it.
Levelling problems. dunno about those, I don't care a hoot about the
storyline yet. I'm just out running round exploring the place! Love it!
McG.
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
In all my fiddling around with nVidia settings for Obl, what you can do is
set SLI rendering to SLI AA, then change the AA to SLI8x or SLI16x...this
way you can keep HDR and AA, I think. Can't rememebr if I got to work...I
think I did.
>>
>> And McG! You talk about console resolutions! What about Oblivion?!?! It's
>> taking me a little while to get use to the ridiculously HUGE
>> inventory/stats screens! Grrr...oh! And the necessity for 'artificial
>> levelling' to ensure a balanced character build, don't get me started...
>
> There are LOTS of gripes in the official forums about those design choices
> with the 'cosmetics'... which do impact how you go about playing the game.
> I expec there will be some changes in the first patch. Bethesda is being
> very quiet now. I bet they're working on that at the mo. My problem is
> the CTD's with it. Dunno why it's doing it but it is. They're working on
> it.
>
CTDs??
Mother Farquhar
DC
"Mother Farquhar" <fa...@ddress.com> wrote in message
news:ljQXf.1567$8o....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>I really like the demo and am going to buy it full price in a few days
>time!
>
Woo!
And everyone: No spoilers for us in the crummy Antipodes that have to wait
an extra 5 days...luancy, sheer lunacy!
McGrandpa
"DC"
snip
>>
>
> CTDs??
>
Crashes To Desktop. Sudden exit to the desktop, no obvious warning at all,
not a chosen thing. It happens a LOT for me on the X2 rig but not the P4
with the older video. That one just runs it like a slug :(
McG.
Sid Fishes
>>
> Hey man, good to see you! Glad you got the demo. LOL yeah, of course I'm up in arms about the controls! They do leave one
> feeling sort of disconnected from the game. Like you're not really IN the game. It's still got promise as an interesting
> diversion, like you said.
> Right now, I'm really missing having a screenshot key :\
> McG.
>
then do a control alt delete, leave TR running and paste the image
into Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro etc.
see a couple of grabs i did here..
JSwing
(de-lurking)
Thanks for the info. I was looking for a summary like this to help
decide if I want the game.
> 1. Checkpoints are for morons, when to save is actually *part* of the
> strategy. Not having to do that does *not* make the game better! It
> makes it different, it makes it simpler, it makes it non-TR. Like I
> said, for little kiddies and morons.
Agreed. This is annoying, but acceptable if the PC version has
save/load anywhere.
> 2. The wrong kind of fun.
> I can tell from just the demo, is just puzzles and combat ... the
> simple combination does not imply the synergy that is strategy.
Ugh. This has the potential to kill the game completely. Hopefully
either this is different in the full game or our tastes differ enough
that I won't find it as bad as you describe.
> 3. No free roaming. The landscape may be spacious, but at no time did
> I feel I could try things that should not be done. I did any way, and
> failed in *every* attempt to go anywhere that was not in the main game
> path. There were no alternate routes, no dead ends, no places to
> climb other than the ones you *had* to use.
Strike one.
> 4. Ok, the controls, in so much as they further the intent of the
> game, are actually pretty good ... once you learn how to walk instead
> of run (and I don't mean crouch).
>
> Missing controls that are *necessary* for TR:
>
> A. side step
>
> B. "Look".
>
> D. Control Granularity.
Add the comment from another post that there are other moves missing
like no back or side flips except while shooting, and this is strike
two.
>
> C. Camera control. Yes, it was pretty good, especially compared to
> PoP.
> For the majority of the time I was not confused. Until I got to the
> chain to chain jump. Here the camera kept trying to let me *see*
> Lara!
> This one thing is *the single most telling point*. The designers
> were more worried about how the game *looks* than how it *feels*.
And this is strike three.
> This final point is what I think McG was (and I am guessing many
> others will be) on about. They have a pretty good control system, I
> will give them that. But it is the *WRONG KIND OF CONTROL SYSTEM*.
> At least in AoD, they *TRIED* to give you the feel of actually
> controlling Lara. In Legends, it is "command and watch", not
> "participate".
Thank you for the excellent description. You have described what I find
undesireable in a TR game. No free roaming, much less direct control, and
level designers hogging the camera control.
I'll wait until the game hits the $10 bin this summer or fall.
JSwing
McGrandpa
"Sid Fishes" <sime...@nOsPaMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:442ff7f8$0$3637$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
McG.
McGrandpa
"JSwing" <JSw...@no.spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns97995F50FDE8...@216.168.3.50...
It IS still TR, so at least sometime, do get it :)
McG.
Rex Reynolds
"Sid Fishes" <sime...@nOsPaMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:442ff7f8$0$3637$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
(for those of us on dial-up & don't want to spend eternity at 5kb(if we're
lucky) dl'ing a 500mb demo)
rex
McGrandpa
"Rex Reynolds" <r.c.re...@REMOVETHISworldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:sPTXf.672442$qk4.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
McG.
Sid Fishes
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message news:y1TXf.50849$1Z5....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
McGrandpa
"Sid Fishes" <sime...@nOsPaMgmail.com> wrote in message
Playing this demo reminds me of playing the first tr demo and trying to get
used to non-fps shooter controlling. Its all very strange at first, but it
grows on ya.
McG.
Tara
> Ok, I want the whole game.
> Playing this demo reminds me of playing the first tr demo and trying to
> get used to non-fps shooter controlling. Its all very strange at first,
> but it grows on ya.
The new controls made me really mad at first, but now that I've
been through the demo twice, I'm pretty much used to them.
Basically, just keep the camera behind Lara, and use the forward
direction key to move forward, along with left and right to turn
around a curve. The camera will stay behind Lara, and it's not
much different than in previous games -- until you get to a point
where Lara gets sideways for whatever reason, and you have to
place the camera behind her again.
Or, use the mouse in your right hand to direct Lara, and the directional
keys to move forward or turn. This is better for fighting, because
your hand is already on the mouse to aim and shoot.
The demo was very effective on me -- after playing it I couldn't
resist pre-ordering the full game. I'm stoked.
Tara
Pistol Whipped
04/02/2006 05:53 AM, and I could have sworn it said ...
I will admit that most of the time the game does not grab the focus away
from you ... or should I say camera angle ... anyway, I tried moving it
back with the mouse. It doesn't work. I move it. It moves back. I
move it. It moves back.
I know its not just mouse drift because in any other location I can move
the camera to where I want it and it stays. Well except when I crowd it
badly against a wall ... it tends to want to "float" away from really
crowded locations ... like when I'm trying to get a really good look at
those hooters! LOL :-P
---
PW
Pistol Whipped
10:48 AM, and I could have sworn it said ...
Like we're not going to talk about how crappy the lack of actions
(notice I have changed this from "bad controls") is for this part or
that ... when we really get down and dirty with the game ...
Sorry, but you're just going to have to heed the [Spoiler] warnings.
YA HEAR THAT EVERYONE?
DC would like us to ALWAYS use [Spoiler] warnings! ;)
---
PW
... in "we'll try to remember" mode
Mustang
news:sPTXf.672442$qk4.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> (for those of us on dial-up & don't want to spend eternity at 5kb(if we're
> lucky) dl'ing a 500mb demo)
> rex
Ah, it's not so bad ;) I've downloaded quite a demos in the region of
500-800MB on my trusty dial-up! It just involves quite a bit of patience ...
:) These days I'm into the lightning speeds of slow broadband. But still an
improvement.
I'm too lazy to subscribe to the binaries group and post right now, but I've
made a bunch of screenshots today and uploaded them here:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/desert-eagle/TRL/
Some are pretty random, but there you go! I just kept hitting Print-Screen
:D The few near the end are from the acrobatics sequence that you get when
running and repeatedly pressing 'F'. They look much better for real than in
a picture!
Settings vary. At the start with all the fuzzy settings on, and later turned
off with the last few at a higher resolution too (1152x768).
-Mustang
Rex Reynolds
almost like she forgot some clothing :-). also looks like she got a bit of
hair removed...hmmm no braid irl that could get to be a problem, when she
goes to swing that rifle down off her back...
rex
Erik Steffl
...
> Working on it.. no sidestep, no backflip, no sideflip, no LOOK key, did
> handstand, no swandive, no walk key, no crawl key, has sneak key, uses HAVOK
> physics, no CTRL key (Action) to stoop and pick up stuff, Lara does not step
> backward, swimming has severe untreatable consolitis of the controls, but it
> does look really good.
(I played the demo in the meantime)
sidestep, backflip, sideflip - these can be done during combat
(target mode) but not during normal running around. Still a BIIIG minus.
look key: either mouse or pgDown for binoculars, I think that's about
as good as former look key or even better - binoculars tell you if
there's something interesting there and they have zoom
walking - since she doesn't fall off that easily it doesn't seem like
it matters much
did you notice how the auto-aim doesn't really work that much? Unless
she faces the opponent she's not going to shoot at him. And she always
just points her gun in the direction of camera so you cannot use her
guns to figure out where the enemy is. Which is really stupid in a third
person game (no matter how good the camera is you can't see what she sees).
...
> All in all, once one DOES get used to controlling Lara, this should be a fun
> TR.
keyboard control SUCKS big time. I can't believe they'd even release
it, I guess they think nobody will ever use it. How are you supposed to
run around and jump and shoot AND use mouse (with a third hand?)
I think I'm getting PS2 controller, it makes a HUGE difference.
Seriosuly, even with acute consolitis it is pretty enjoyable to control
using a gamepad, they did a fairly good job making it work.
> Laras animation sequences are good. They flow together seamlessly, no
> matter what she's doing or where. The world physics are the best I've seen
yeah, I noticed it again, there are no awkard moments like stairs in
AoD, all the movement interracts with environment really well, no weird
disconnects etc.
> Game speed. On my system, the X2 4800+, 2 gigs ram, 2 7800GTX's, XP Pro
> x64; the game plays too fast. Nobody else has mentioned this anywhere I've
> seen yet, but the game does seem to play about 1.5 times faster than "a game
> should". Like the other TR games. They all seem to play about the same
> rate, this one simply plays faster. I'll install it on my P4 2.66 rig, it's
> a lot slower than this one, and see how it behaves there.
I have Pentium 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and at
1920x1200 the game is unplayable with all the bells turned on. I tried
to turn everything off and the game is almost smooth. Seems to play at
right speed.
> Ok folks, I have this hatred of console controls on a PC. And we've got
> them in Legend. And it doesn't matter a bit why I hate them I just do.
> Ok, so other than my noise making about that aspect, I AM looking at Legend,
> the Tombraiding Game. I doubt there is any person who wants to enjoy this
> game more than I do. Bear with me on my controls bashing. I'll adjust to
> them eventually and I WILL play Legend. Nothing show-stopping has showed up
> yet.
get a gamepad. I share your opinion on the control and consolitis but
the gamepad makes it a lot more enjoyable. Not exactly the same as old
TR games but might be good enough to enjoy the game (depending on how
good the rest of the game is)
erik
Erik Steffl
> McGrandpa wrote:
...
>> Bear with me on my controls bashing.
>
> controls, it's not Tomb Raider. :-P They went from
> very manual controls that never worked right, to too
> automated controls that don't work right.
what are you talking about!!! the controls in all old TR games (not
counting AoD there) were the best controls ever! Simple, you were
controlling Lara, not an RC vehicle :-) fairly predictable, you had a
measurement of what she can do (how far she can jump, from what height
she can jump etc.). It wasn't the same as other games but it did work
very well.
> I have a deep fear that if a Tomb Raider is ever released
> with decent controls, it will be the last ever!
hey TR I wasn't the last TR game :-)
erik
Erik Steffl
...
> McGrandpa I'm with you on the controls. Although the full version might
> allow remapping so there is hope there. As I played today I found I was a
hmmm... don't think it's the remapping that would help. The problem
is the silly console style movement relative to the camera (as opposed
to movement releative to the character).
actually I think in combat (target mode) she moves relative to
herslef, e.g she can do side jumps etc. Even though I think the way they
achieve it is by simply locking the camera behind her (don't remember
exactly). That's an obvious proof that relative-to-the-character is
better:-)
erik
Erik Steffl
...
> I *know* the 'F' key now... that's how I saw Laras deaths are in full HAVOK
> physics! ;o) She just flows down the landscape....LOL!
are you talking about http://www.havok.com/
?
erik
Erik Steffl
...
> Well, let's see, after I finally got my demo copy downloaded, I began to
> play. I went to my Logitech gamepad first, and found it a bit hard to
> equate the buttons with the PC commands, but finally did it. McG, all will
> be forgiven if you get to see Lara's hips sway when she walks,
> unfortunately, the gamepad analog joystick is needed for that, as a light
> push is stealth, a medium push is walk and a full push is run. I did not
> discover yet a keyboard equivalent. But the game pad has no camera control
that's what the little joystick is for, at least on Xbox controller -
the big joystick controls lara, the little one controls camera (and the
little cross thingy controls inventory)
> that I have discovered. No backup walk or jump on either the keyboard or
> gamepad unless I haven't found it yet (I'm going to check out the control
those can be done in target mode only (combat). suck but better than
nothing. Actually she can do more fancy moves during combat (twists, kicks)
...
> shoulder jumps to ledges behind you, but when it comes to lining up for
> jumps to cross spaces, or to grab a rope/vine, the gamepad is very very
> sensitive, and I keep falling off the edge. I find that things dropped by
yeah, I found out that you have to aim with the camera first (so good
control of camera position is essential)
erik
Erik Steffl
...
> Moving boxes around is a lot more fun. And I love how Lara's
> eyes move when she's looking at you from up close.
>
> And I'm using a lowly GeForce2 for this. Couldn't believe
> it was so smooth and good-looking on this stupid old card.
> Now I'm wondering if I'm going to bother upgrading to
> an ATI Radeon 9600 as I'd planned to!
oh it is a whole world of difference! The game degrades VERY well,
it's is still pretty and all but you get a lot better visuals with
better card. I have ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and can't play full resolution
full features so thinking about getting a better card (or maybe a better
CPU, I only have 2.4GHz pentium)
erik
Erik Steffl
...
> This final point is what I think McG was (and I am guessing many others
> will be) on about. They have a pretty good control system, I will give
> them that. But it is the *WRONG KIND OF CONTROL SYSTEM*. At least in
> AoD, they *TRIED* to give you the feel of actually controlling Lara. In
> Legends, it is "command and watch", not "participate".
>
> for.
exactly!
what made TR so interesting was that you were controlling Lara, and
those few simple moves did something to the environment, so you had a
feeling of doing it yourself. This new control system makes it a lot
more detached.
actually her constant chatting with the base makes it even more
watch-like experience...
erik
McGrandpa
> news:sPTXf.672442$qk4.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> nice pics. ok so now, are you folks gonna post pics on the binaries
>> froup? (for those of us on dial-up & don't want to spend eternity at
>> 5kb(if we're lucky) dl'ing a 500mb demo)
>> rex
>
> Ah, it's not so bad ;) I've downloaded quite a demos in the region of
> 500-800MB on my trusty dial-up! It just involves quite a bit of patience
> ... :) These days I'm into the lightning speeds of slow broadband. But
> still an improvement.
>
> I'm too lazy to subscribe to the binaries group and post right now, but
> I've made a bunch of screenshots today and uploaded them here:
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/desert-eagle/TRL/
I liked #12, she's doing a handstand on a bar :) good one!
Mcg.
McGrandpa
"Erik Steffl" <ste...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:1230ocl...@corp.supernews.com...
> McGrandpa wrote:
> ...
>> Working on it.. no sidestep, no backflip, no sideflip, no LOOK key, did
>> handstand, no swandive, no walk key, no crawl key, has sneak key, uses
>> HAVOK physics, no CTRL key (Action) to stoop and pick up stuff, Lara does
>> not step backward, swimming has severe untreatable consolitis of the
>> controls, but it does look really good.
>
> (I played the demo in the meantime)
>
> sidestep, backflip, sideflip - these can be done during combat (target
> mode) but not during normal running around. Still a BIIIG minus.
>
> look key: either mouse or pgDown for binoculars, I think that's about as
> good as former look key or even better - binoculars tell you if there's
> something interesting there and they have zoom
The full mouse look thing is basically the same as the look key in say TR3.
It's enough. It's actually a bonus that you can see Laras face now without
having to back her into a corner :)
>
> walking - since she doesn't fall off that easily it doesn't seem like it
> matters much
I like walking. I take my time and enjoy the scenery. I still do, just in
a different pace, like just stop and look around a bit.
>
> did you notice how the auto-aim doesn't really work that much? Unless
> she faces the opponent she's not going to shoot at him. And she always
> just points her gun in the direction of camera so you cannot use her guns
> to figure out where the enemy is. Which is really stupid in a third person
> game (no matter how good the camera is you can't see what she sees).
Yep, had to use a couple med packs after the drop in with a bunch of thugs.
I'm reading these hints and Laras getting pocked pretty hard. But i didn't
want to chance having to start from the beginning again so I just slugged it
out with em.
>
> ...
>> All in all, once one DOES get used to controlling Lara, this should be a
>> fun TR.
>
> keyboard control SUCKS big time. I can't believe they'd even release it,
> I guess they think nobody will ever use it. How are you supposed to run
> around and jump and shoot AND use mouse (with a third hand?)
some people have more parts than others? I dunno ;) It's pretty plain
there are (like you said after SanFran) quite a number of moves. Lots of
combinations. We need a manual :)
>
> I think I'm getting PS2 controller, it makes a HUGE difference.
> Seriosuly, even with acute consolitis it is pretty enjoyable to control
> using a gamepad, they did a fairly good job making it work.
Might try that myself, the mouse is doing good but I don't have a third hand
either Erik :)
>
>> Laras animation sequences are good. They flow together seamlessly, no
>> matter what she's doing or where. The world physics are the best I've
>> seen
>
> yeah, I noticed it again, there are no awkard moments like stairs in
> AoD, all the movement interracts with environment really well, no weird
> disconnects etc.
Right. smooth and fluid anims. And some pretty good ones too. Some are
very different than we've ever seen.
>
>> Game speed. On my system, the X2 4800+, 2 gigs ram, 2 7800GTX's, XP Pro
>> x64; the game plays too fast. Nobody else has mentioned this anywhere
>> I've seen yet, but the game does seem to play about 1.5 times faster than
>> "a game should". Like the other TR games. They all seem to play about
>> the same rate, this one simply plays faster. I'll install it on my P4
>> 2.66 rig, it's a lot slower than this one, and see how it behaves there.
>
> I have Pentium 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and at 1920x1200
> the game is unplayable with all the bells turned on. I tried to turn
> everything off and the game is almost smooth. Seems to play at right
> speed.
I installed and am playing the demo on my P4 2.66, 1 gig ram, FX5900 128 and
it's the right speed there. Got everything turned on the same as the X2 but
in 1024x768 instead of 1280x1024. It's smooth, mouse is a little bit
'mushy', but might be that it's a cheep cordless thru PS2 port with cordless
keyboard. It has been running on that rig now for a day and a half, no
crashes. I just walk off and leave it, come back to it when I want to.
Lara hasn't budged an inch.
>
>> Ok folks, I have this hatred of console controls on a PC. And we've got
>> them in Legend. And it doesn't matter a bit why I hate them I just do.
>> Ok, so other than my noise making about that aspect, I AM looking at
>> Legend, the Tombraiding Game. I doubt there is any person who wants to
>> enjoy this game more than I do. Bear with me on my controls bashing.
>> I'll adjust to them eventually and I WILL play Legend. Nothing
>> show-stopping has showed up yet.
>
>
> get a gamepad. I share your opinion on the control and consolitis but
> the gamepad makes it a lot more enjoyable. Not exactly the same as old TR
> games but might be good enough to enjoy the game (depending on how good
> the rest of the game is)
I'll see if I can round up a USB gamepad tomorrow after work. I might just
laugh myself silly looking at one though.
McG.
>
> erik
McGrandpa
Bingo! Hit that one right!
McG.
>
> erik
McGrandpa
Yup! that stuff :) ut2003 and 4, HL2 and a bunch of others use the HAVOK
character physics. That's all the 'ragdoll' stuff you see. We can check
the credits and stuff when the game is released to see for sure. but nobody
makes 'flow down the landscape' quite like HAVOK.
McG.
McGrandpa
McG.
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> "DC"
> snip
>>>
>>
>> CTDs??
>>
> Crashes To Desktop. Sudden exit to the desktop, no obvious warning at
> all, not a chosen thing. It happens a LOT for me on the X2 rig but not
> the P4 with the older video. That one just runs it like a slug :(
> McG.
>
Heh, straaaange.
DC
"Sid Fishes" <sime...@nOsPaMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:442ff7f8$0$3637$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> <snip>
>>>
>> Hey man, good to see you! Glad you got the demo. LOL yeah, of course
>> I'm up in arms about the controls! They do leave one feeling sort of
>> disconnected from the game. Like you're not really IN the game. It's
>> still got promise as an interesting diversion, like you said.
>> Right now, I'm really missing having a screenshot key :\
>> McG.
>>
> to grab a screen shot just press the print scrn key on your keyboard.
>
> then do a control alt delete, leave TR running and paste the image
> into Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro etc.
>
> see a couple of grabs i did here..
>
> http://tinyurl.com/f6dzx
>
> http://tinyurl.com/hdboj
>
>
Oh it's so freaky the way she looks at you when you look at her!!
DC
>> PoP.
>> For the majority of the time I was not confused. Until I got to the
>> chain to chain jump. Here the camera kept trying to let me *see*
>> Lara!
>> This one thing is *the single most telling point*. The designers
>> were more worried about how the game *looks* than how it *feels*.
>
>
>
>
>> others will be) on about. They have a pretty good control system, I
>> will give them that. But it is the *WRONG KIND OF CONTROL SYSTEM*.
>> At least in AoD, they *TRIED* to give you the feel of actually
>> controlling Lara. In Legends, it is "command and watch", not
>> "participate".
>
>
> undesireable in a TR game. No free roaming, much less direct control, and
> level designers hogging the camera control.
>
> I'll wait until the game hits the $10 bin this summer or fall.
>
> JSwing
I think this is a mistake, especially based on one person's opinion of the
demo. And it is a demo, not the full game.
We have been promised hand stand/ swan dive: we got them.
We were promised big range puzzles: we got them.
We were promised a more 'Tombraider' style of level design, in the sense
that we're raiding Tombs, not cities: we got that.
They have also promised much replay value, large levels that beg for secret
hunting, and a few other things.
Please remember this is a *demo*.
Before you decide on whether you buy the game off the bat, maybe download
the demo for yourself with the awareness that it simply cannot incorporate
or provide a full game experience, or even wait and see what others think of
the actual game when it is released.
Consider that there are only the most basic parts of the gameplay: we have
only one puzzle, two combat sequences, and simple level 'raiding', because
it is purely an introduction into the game and how to play it.
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
Yay I'm glad you're coming around!
I guess once you have time to get over the inital anger at the controls (I
was sort of expecting the console-esque controls though, to be honest) you
can really start to enjoy it.
People have been saying how they don't think it's like TR, I think it *is*.
I think they've included quite a few original TR-ey type things into the
game...
McGrandpa
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
news:4430...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
The demo is what you said. that I popped my cork about the controls is
simply evidence I was 'emotionally involved' with a stupid game :) I had
hopes, wants, likes and dreams that I read into something completely out of
my control. Was bound to be disappointed at some level, given that.
Anticipating is one thing, craving is another ;)
Mcg.
DC
"Tara" <nor...@void.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.04.02....@void.net...
> McGrandpa wrote:
>> Ok, I want the whole game.
>> Playing this demo reminds me of playing the first tr demo and trying to
>> get used to non-fps shooter controlling. Its all very strange at first,
>> but it grows on ya.
>
> The new controls made me really mad at first, but now that I've
> been through the demo twice, I'm pretty much used to them.
>
> Basically, just keep the camera behind Lara, and use the forward
> direction key to move forward, along with left and right to turn
> around a curve. The camera will stay behind Lara, and it's not
> much different than in previous games -- until you get to a point
> where Lara gets sideways for whatever reason, and you have to
> place the camera behind her again.
>
> Or, use the mouse in your right hand to direct Lara, and the directional
> keys to move forward or turn. This is better for fighting, because
> your hand is already on the mouse to aim and shoot.
>
This is how I played it through on keyboard/ mouse. Perhaps the most trouble
that people are having with these controls is learning that the old way is
completely (sadly) gone. The best way to control the game is as you've
described: one hand on the mouse, the other on WASD. Remap the inventory
keys (del, end, home, p.dwn) to keys around WASD.
> The demo was very effective on me -- after playing it I couldn't
> resist pre-ordering the full game. I'm stoked.
>
Yay!
> Tara
>
DC
"Pistol Whipped" <pwhi...@NOtampabaySPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4iYXf.121466$g47....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
I might just have to go away for 5 days......
DC
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
You mean...I never had it before....you...wha....I.....*bursts into tears
and runs out of the room*
....
*comes running back and shuts the computer down, then runs back out of the
room; still in tears*
DC
#15 is great...looks like she's puzzling out how she's going to get where
she needs to go...I was thinking you could make a little story out of
screenshots! Maybe this is what we should do while waiting for game
release?!?! ;)
Erik Steffl
...
> I'll see if I can round up a USB gamepad tomorrow after work. I might just
> laugh myself silly looking at one though.
me too:-) both on getting the gamepad and laughing:-) just make sure
you get the one that is similar to PS2 (or PS2 and the gizmo that
connects it to USB), or maybe Xbox controller (can those be used with PC
directly?). You definitely need two joysticks (movement and camera),
cross (inventory), four buttons (for E, F, Q and something I forgot...),
one trigger for shooting, one trigger to toggle targetting mode. So I
don't think just any gamepad would work.
erik
J.H.
> McGrandpa wrote:
>
>>Ok, I want the whole game.
>>Playing this demo reminds me of playing the first tr demo and trying to
>>get used to non-fps shooter controlling. Its all very strange at first,
>>but it grows on ya.
>
>
> The new controls made me really mad at first, but now that I've
> been through the demo twice, I'm pretty much used to them.
>
> Basically, just keep the camera behind Lara, and use the forward
> direction key to move forward, along with left and right to turn
> around a curve. The camera will stay behind Lara, and it's not
> much different than in previous games -- until you get to a point
> where Lara gets sideways for whatever reason, and you have to
> place the camera behind her again.
>
> Or, use the mouse in your right hand to direct Lara, and the directional
> keys to move forward or turn. This is better for fighting, because
> your hand is already on the mouse to aim and shoot.
>
> resist pre-ordering the full game. I'm stoked.
>
>
After playing the last 3 PoP games, I'm used to the whole 'sideways'
thing. I don't even think about it, really. Left just becomes forward,
etc. I don't waste my time worrying about the camera angle.
I can see why a lot of people wouldn't like it though. But the old TR
games frustrated me more than these do. When the camera got stuck in
those games, it really got stuck...right smack up against the back of
her head, and you had to use your 'look' key to figure out your location
in relation to where you needed to be. I've always thought the 'look'
factor was compensation for poor camera control, but it did come in
handy occasionally.
DC
I think the Xbox360 controller can work directly with a PC...but any
Logitech PC rumblepad should be fine! Only about AUD30-45...should be
cheaper in the States.
I have a Logitech rumblepad2 on loan from my brother - works a treat!
Mustang
>>
>> I'm too lazy to subscribe to the binaries group and post right now, but
>> I've made a bunch of screenshots today and uploaded them here:
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/desert-eagle/TRL/
>
> I liked #12, she's doing a handstand on a bar :) good one!
> Mcg.
She's changing direction there, like a right little Olympian!
When swinging around a bar in one direction, press the other way. I have
seen 3 different animations for her to change direction, depending when you
switch direction on the keyboard.
If you're coming up to the top of the swing, she'll stop at the top and
rotate around on her hands before dropping down the other way. If you're
just past the top of the swing, she'll do something complicated with her
legs before swinging the other way. It's neat :)
- Mustang
Mustang
news:4430...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> she needs to go...I was thinking you could make a little story out of
> screenshots! Maybe this is what we should do while waiting for game
> release?!?! ;)
Haha, maybe. I'm just not sure how to explain the picture where she's
smacking her own bum ... ;)
- Mustang
Mustang
>
> oh it is a whole world of difference! The game degrades VERY well, it's
> is still pretty and all but you get a lot better visuals with better card.
> I have ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and can't play full resolution full features so
> thinking about getting a better card (or maybe a better CPU, I only have
> 2.4GHz pentium)
>
> erik
I have a 1.8GHz Athlon and a Radeon 9800 Pro, and I can run at 1152x864 with
all options on and full-screen anti-aliasing - it's as smooth as you would
ever need.
No idea why it isn't working well for you? Doesn't seem to make sense!
- Mustang
Mustang
>
> People have been saying how they don't think it's like TR, I think it
> *is*.
> I think they've included quite a few original TR-ey type things into the
> game...
I agree. The controls are totally different, but they were always sure to
be. The digital control from the first games was never going to stay. It
would also be a bit silly to make a whole new TR that is simply the old
games with newer graphics.
For the old games' control style to work, it needed that very regular
'block' style to it, in how the levels were made up. With newer games that
can't really work in an eloquent way, so there has to be some automation in
how the character maps to their environment, I think. I'd argue there's a
little bit too much, but at least Lara can move around in a more free
fashion now. The old games were a bit frustrating at times when you had to
stop, then turn, then run a bit, then stop, then turn again. Now she can run
in any direction like a real person is easily able to.
I think the general feel of it is very TR-like. I had a lot of good feelings
when first working through the demo, because it really felt like the TR of
old was back, with lots of "ahhhh" and "wow" moments.
- Mustang
Mustang
> hmmm... don't think it's the remapping that would help. The problem is
> the silly console style movement relative to the camera (as opposed to
> movement releative to the character).
>
> actually I think in combat (target mode) she moves relative to herslef,
> e.g she can do side jumps etc. Even though I think the way they achieve it
> is by simply locking the camera behind her (don't remember exactly).
> That's an obvious proof that relative-to-the-character is better:-)
Well, the relative-to-camera method works well for general running around.
It's quick and efficient. In combat the relative-to-Lara method works
because your mouse give you control of your aim. So that's best there too.
So I think everything is fine in TRL, except *one* thing - when camera
control is taken away from you!
For example, when moving boxes. The camera is always trying to get behind
Lara - why? If I want to use 'A' or 'D' to move the box left/right across my
screen, I can't, because the camera swings to be behind Lara and so she
pulls the box in a curved path (left of camera, and the camera rotates).
Also, when climbing the cliff vines near the start or the chains later on,
the camera is moved for me and I have almost no chance to move it where I
want it (try moving the view left/right when climbing a vine - it'll snap
back to centre). That is really bugging me in the demo because I want to
have a certain viewing angle and use a certain key to make a jump, but when
the camera becomes locked, I have to adjust my plan and use different keys
to make a jump, and it sometimes causes problems, so I fall a long way and
have to climb back up.
I REALLY hope there's an option to override this auto-camera-control in the
full game, but if it's not there in the demo, I'm 100% sure it won't appear
in the full game. It's the only real annoyance I have so far with TRL. The
new controls are really quite alright otherwise.
- Mustang
Mustang
>
> did you notice how the auto-aim doesn't really work that much? Unless
> she faces the opponent she's not going to shoot at him. And she always
> just points her gun in the direction of camera so you cannot use her guns
> to figure out where the enemy is. Which is really stupid in a third person
> game (no matter how good the camera is you can't see what she sees).
I think you can see more than she sees in third-person mode, because you
have the advantage of altitude, and being able to see in front of her and
fully to her sides and behind a little way.
> keyboard control SUCKS big time. I can't believe they'd even release it,
> I guess they think nobody will ever use it. How are you supposed to run
> around and jump and shoot AND use mouse (with a third hand?)
Look/aim with the mouse, move with fingers on WASD, jump with thumb on space
bar, and shoot with left-mouse button.
Is it really so difficult with two hands? :/
- Mustang
Erik Steffl
> "Erik Steffl" <ste...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:1230ovd...@corp.supernews.com...
>> hmmm... don't think it's the remapping that would help. The problem is
>> the silly console style movement relative to the camera (as opposed to
>> movement releative to the character).
>>
>> actually I think in combat (target mode) she moves relative to herslef,
>> e.g she can do side jumps etc. Even though I think the way they achieve it
>> is by simply locking the camera behind her (don't remember exactly).
>> That's an obvious proof that relative-to-the-character is better:-)
>
> Well, the relative-to-camera method works well for general running around.
> It's quick and efficient. In combat the relative-to-Lara method works
it's quick and efficient??? are you suggesting it's in any way more
quick/efficient that relative to lara movement? how exactly would that be?
the major problem with camera relative method is that if camera
changes position it changes where lara is heading which is pretty
annoying in puzzles
> because your mouse give you control of your aim. So that's best there too.
yeah, it's better in combat because it's better:-) only in combat
it's needed more
> Also, when climbing the cliff vines near the start or the chains later on,
> the camera is moved for me and I have almost no chance to move it where I
> want it (try moving the view left/right when climbing a vine - it'll snap
> back to centre). That is really bugging me in the demo because I want to
> have a certain viewing angle and use a certain key to make a jump, but when
> the camera becomes locked, I have to adjust my plan and use different keys
> to make a jump, and it sometimes causes problems, so I fall a long way and
> have to climb back up.
camera relative movement SUCKS!
erik
Erik Steffl
full resolution I mentioned is 1920x1200 - I can play at that
resolution with everything turned off, didn't play with different
resolutions yet... I guess at lower resolution it would be working with
more (all?) options turned on
erik
McGrandpa
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
news:4430a4a4$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
bigger help! Lara still can't side-step (strafe). she still can't simply
walk.
But she seems to be able to do everything else of old and a few more.
All my ranting was before i found the combat mode.
I've had no trouble with jumping rope to rope, chain to chain. easy. just
line up the camera TO her back, then if you're jumping back, you're going to
naturally hit the right direction key :)
Haven't heard her screeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaammmm! in a fall yet. Plenty of
cliffs here tho :\
McG.
McGrandpa
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
me, as i'm finally coming round to see a *mature application* of this
intellect. I guess I'm used to seeing you clowning around more than you do
these days.
[turns the DragonCarers computer back on....quietly leaves the room]
McG.
McGrandpa
good nuff!
:o)
McG.
McGrandpa
Well, I'm gonna have to look it up at the stores. The youngster at circuit
city just went "Huh?" and gave me a blank look when I asked for a Ps2
controller for my PC. Hmpfh! ;)
McG.
McGrandpa
McG.
McGrandpa
climb and jump back n forth on, ledges to shimmy on, and a couple poles and
ropes for her to swing and climb.
With a nice little level like that, who needs the game? ;oD
McG.
McGrandpa
Northwood is clocked faster than my X2 4800+ is at 2.4 ghz. But I guarantee
you, that x2 flat out blows the doors off that P4!!!
McG.
Interesting Ian
"DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
|
| I don't know how to get Lara to run in the demo by using the keyboard.
Huh?? I've yet to find out how to stop her running! And that's whether I
use the keyboard or a gamepad. Doesn't seem any way to make her walk.
Sneak doesn't work.
I think I'll just give this game a miss since I can't control her properly.
Interesting Ian
"McGrandpa" <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
|
| I'll rephrase that, correcting my generality: With what I've played, the
| CONTROLS are a stinking pile of sh*t!!!!
|
| I was staggered by how badly this demo performed controls wise. It really
| IS worse, control wise, than AoD, generally speaking. SO FAR.
Yes I entirely agree. Whatever reservations we may have had regarding the
control system in that game, this is simply *vastly* worse. I just find it
unplayable.
Mustang
> Mustang wrote:
>> "Erik Steffl" <ste...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:1230q38...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> oh it is a whole world of difference! The game degrades VERY well,
>>> it's is still pretty and all but you get a lot better visuals with
>>> better card. I have ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and can't play full resolution
>>> full features so thinking about getting a better card (or maybe a better
>>> CPU, I only have 2.4GHz pentium)
>>
>> with all options on and full-screen anti-aliasing - it's as smooth as you
>> would ever need.
>>
>> No idea why it isn't working well for you? Doesn't seem to make sense!
>
> full resolution I mentioned is 1920x1200 - I can play at that resolution
> with everything turned off, didn't play with different resolutions yet...
> I guess at lower resolution it would be working with more (all?) options
> turned on
Yeah, I missed the full resolution part. I don't think there's a need for
such resolutions. Only in old games do you get good performance at those
settings, really.
Run at a lower resolution with 4x AA and it looks just as good, really :)
(In my opinion, of course). 1024x768 on a 19" monitor is fine for me.
Doesn't look blocky at all.
- Mustang
Mustang
> Mustang wrote:
>> Well, the relative-to-camera method works well for general running
>> around. It's quick and efficient. In combat the relative-to-Lara method
>> works
>
> it's quick and efficient??? are you suggesting it's in any way more
> quick/efficient that relative to lara movement? how exactly would that be?
Well, I'm not sure you're in the right frame of mind for a proper debate,
but I'll try...
If you want to run in a direction - any direction - you can do it. If you
want to change from one direction to another, you can do it.
What did Lara-relative movement offer? Run forwards, run and turn, turn on
the spot (slowly, compared to what you can do now), or roll 180 degrees. No
quick 90 degree turns. No quick or easy way to move about a little bit or
shuffle in all directions. I know the side-steps were nice and all, but they
were quite slow to set up. In some of the trickier, time-dependent puzzles
the old TR controls were a pain, because you couldn't make Lara do some of
the simple things that are possible in real life.
It's similar to the picking up of items (I write this as a kind of parallel
argument of the same nature). I miss it in TRL, in a way, but at the same
time, it was a bit silly that you had to stop and stand right over an item,
then bend down to pick it up. No picking it up on the move, or anything.
Remember the green-dragon secret near the start of TR2? Hard to get because
of the need to stop right on the item, collect it, and move on without
getting spiked. All part of the fun, yes I know, but a bit slow and clumsy.
All a bit silly when Lara's such an athelete.
So, I'm simply saying that the relative-to-camera movement gives you a much
greater ability to run here and there, without having to keep stopping,
turning, moving, stopping, turning, adjusting a bit, and so on. I really
love the old games and their controls, but at the same time it's nice that
Lara can now zip about on her feet like a *real* person, in any direction. I
know we are less in control of Lara, but we are also more free, and less
governed by the programming of how she is controlled.
She was a bit like a boat or a car before. Forwards or backwards or turn.
Real people can just start walking at 90 degrees to where they face and then
turn as they start moving. Old Lara couldn't do that, she operated like a
vehicle. It was not bad and I enjoyed playing all the old games, but I am
trying to show you why - in some ways - the camera-relative way is better :)
> the major problem with camera relative method is that if camera changes
> position it changes where lara is heading which is pretty annoying in
> puzzles
Not really. If the camera has a mind of its own (which it sometimes does),
then yes I agree that it's annoying. If you have control over the camera,
then no. It's all up to you.
> camera relative movement SUCKS!
Hmm, I'll leave this comment be. All I can say is that if you *so
desperately* need the same controls as the original TR games, go play the
original TR games! Or better still, make your own levels with the level
editor and then all is fine and dandy :)
I don't 100% agree with the changes in control and I don't love them, but
it's *nice* to have something *different*, I have to say. No game stays the
same.
- Mustang
Tara
> "DC" <ha...@woops.com.tehe> wrote in message
>
> Huh?? I've yet to find out how to stop her running!
Right, running is her normal mode of travel in Legend.
> Doesn't seem any way to make her walk.
> Sneak doesn't work.
No stealth mode or walk, ** but **, try crouching (F) and the
direction keys. It's slow, like a walk, and maybe in some spots
Lara will be able to "fly below the radar" and avoid detection.
Tara
Mustang
news:wXgYf.2642$BO5...@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>
> Huh?? I've yet to find out how to stop her running! And that's whether I
> use the keyboard or a gamepad. Doesn't seem any way to make her walk.
> Sneak doesn't work.
You need a gamepad with an analogue stick, apparently. Or keep tapping the
'sneak' key and she will kind of get stick in limbo between run and sneak,
which equals a walk :) It is not necessary to make her walk, though, as far
as I know. Entirely cosmetic, I think.
> I think I'll just give this game a miss since I can't control her
> properly.
Stick with it, it'll grow on you :)
When you get a new car it's not the same to drive as your old one, but you
adapt...
- Mustang