Resurrecting Ms Croft
nick.mastroddi
heroine? Cause I'm pretty stuck for anything except the 'Egyptian god
suddenly decides to bring her back' one. Or even the 'she didn't actually
die - she managed to open a hidden trapdoor and escape before a hair in her
immaculate ponytail was harmed'. Having said that, I would prefer BOTH of
those to the 'so Lara's gone, here's her DAUGHTER, who's just as smart and
sexy, but twice as FEISTY...' god save us all.
Silver
Chloe
nick.mastroddi at nick.ma...@ntlworld.com wrote on 7/7/01 8:15 pm:
i recon she fell survied and manged to escape and spnt bit of time at home
recupuratign with winston cucumber snadwhcies and choclate cake
>
Gary Mitchell
Well, let's see...
Lara locked Seth in with the amulet. It seems turnabout is
fair play--Seth locks Lara in the pyramid. In the initial
fall (remember, the floor was giving way), Lara loses her
backpack. While Von Croy's people find the backpack, Lara
is deep in the pyramid struggling to find a way out while
staying one step ahead of Seth.
Scenario 1, Lara gets lucky (for the moment)
Seth's tantrums eventually shake open a passage way, similar
to how they shifted stuff around to trap Lara in the first
place. Lara finally finds an opening and escapes. All the
shaking knocks the amulet from its holder and Seth slips out
the same way or through another opening. Perhaps the same
thing that knocks loose the amulet also makes an opening for
Lara...maybe unbeknownst to her at the time.
Scenario 2, moral dilemma
Lara doesn't have any food, but there is water in the pyramid
(remember, we swam in places). Days pass and she's getting
desperate, (Lara doesn't have much fat to live on). While
roaming the bowels of the pyramid looking for a way out (and
while avoiding Seth), she finds and inscription telling her
a way...The only way out is to pull the amulet from its
holder. That would also free Seth...hence, the dilemma.
Lara decides it would be better to fight Seth on the outside.
After all, there are likely to be search parties that would
eventually find her body--and they may grab the amulet--freeing
Seth anyway. Plus, it isn't ancient times anymore, modern
weapons were able to destroy Seth's monsters. So, she pulls
the amulet and makes a run for it.
So, now Lara *and* Seth are free. The Amulet is still in
the pyramid (scenario 1) or Lara has it (scenario 2). Seth
is pissed off at Lara. Horus is pissed off at Seth, but is
still stuck in a god's version of limbo (because of Seth's
attack).
Everyone is happy to see Lara and she's happy to be free, but
the celebrations have to be kept short--there's no time to
waste. Lara consults with Jean-Yves to figure out how to
exorcise Seth from Horus (their only hope). The key is the
amulet. Recall, it blasted off of Horus just as Seth crashed
in and possessed him (apparently just in the nick of time
from Seth's perspective).
Watch your back, Lara! Seth is causing some trouble, but not
too much--he's busy tracking you down! The ultimate timed
puzzle and boss level? :)
And we're off with the next adventure!
How's that for a quick 'n dirty first try? :)
-- G
Cookiebear
were too play that game. ;-)
I've heard some people talking about how it was Laras failure to get the
ritual or read the tablet when she gets the amulet back from Von Croy/Seth.
That cause's the anti climactic arrival of Horus.
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B485CA4...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
overlooking one thing. You are assuming that she wasn't underneath the pile
of falling rubble in the first place. Are you telling me that she wasn't
still there when it fell? Because that's the major issue with resurrection.
I have no doubt that if she was trapped on the inside our plot writers would
have no problems blasting her a way out, with angry Seth behind her, but
where is your deus ex machina?
I'm curious,
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B485CA4...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Andrew Wolny
of shotguns, crossbows, uzis, ammo, flares, medpacks, etc) I guess she just
opened it up and climbed right in. At the end of the game Von Croy finds the
backpack in the rubble of the tomb and carries it away. Later on he opens it
up to see why it's so heavy and out she pops, guns blazing as normal.
Andy.
nick.mastroddi <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:rdJ17.5785$B56.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
thomas Jardine
Tom (the old guy)
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B485CA4...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> Watch your back, Lara! Seth is causing some trouble, but not
> too much--he's busy tracking you down! The ultimate timed
> puzzle and boss level? :)
>
> And we're off with the next adventure!
>
> How's that for a quick 'n dirty first try? :)
>
> -- G
I love it. I do hope you're saving all your ideas, Gary. Please post
them at some URL in the hopes that some young enterprising
fresh-out-of-USC student who will inevitably be hired to write the TR
film sequel will see it and steal with reckless, glorious abandon only
to have West "simonize" it in post.
Now there's an obscure reference for ya! WooHoo! Now I'm hungry.
WR
Womb Raider
nick.mastroddi <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> That's disturbingly detailed, however quite brilliant. You are, however,
> overlooking one thing. You are assuming that she wasn't underneath the pile
> of falling rubble in the first place. Are you telling me that she wasn't
> still there when it fell? Because that's the major issue with resurrection.
> I have no doubt that if she was trapped on the inside our plot writers would
> have no problems blasting her a way out, with angry Seth behind her, but
> where is your deus ex machina?
>
> I'm curious,
>
> Silver
What Luck resolutions to problems are no fun a'tall. If we can overlook
the physics in the TR film we can overlook the trivial matter of
falling rubble. I mean people accept characters running away from balls
of flame chasing them all the time...
WR
Gary Mitchell
>
> That is really great, really really great, but now you've spoilt it if I
> were too play that game. ;-)
But this is only the beginning, the rest is yet to be done. :)
Lara survives now, but may yet get it in the end. ;)
> I've heard some people talking about how it was Laras failure to get the
> ritual or read the tablet when she gets the amulet back from Von Croy/Seth.
> That cause's the anti climactic arrival of Horus.
So, it was all Lara's fault for being sloppy? Shame
on you Lara. :) Hmmm...maybe I should work that into
my version of the story... :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> That's disturbingly detailed, however quite brilliant.
Thanks...I think. Disturbing? :)
> You are, however,
> overlooking one thing. You are assuming that she wasn't underneath the pile
> of falling rubble in the first place. Are you telling me that she wasn't
> still there when it fell? Because that's the major issue with resurrection.
OK... Scenario 3: Lara's backpack snags on an
outcropping. She dangles for a moment by the pack
until one bolder rips her away from the pack, (remember,
they found the pack, but not Lara.) Lara finally lands,
with the bolder right on top of her. The rest of her
ammo explodes, pushing the bolder away and sealing off
the chamber above where the lone backpack now rests. Lara
is now a collection of red gushy spots here and there.
Nope, that version isn't nearly as satisfying! :)
Of course I'm assuming she avoided the rubble. All cliff
hangers work that way. The story would end otherwise.
Actually, from the video, it looked to me like the only
bolder from above was the one that closed the opening.
Everything else opened up below her. Didn't she hang by
the fingers for a moment before falling? That would give
the rubble a chance to fall first....I'll have to watch
it again more carefully.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> In article <3B485CA4...@ix.nospam.netcom.com>, Gary Mitchell
> <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Watch your back, Lara! Seth is causing some trouble, but not
> > too much--he's busy tracking you down! The ultimate timed
> > puzzle and boss level? :)
> >
> > And we're off with the next adventure!
> >
> > How's that for a quick 'n dirty first try? :)
> >
> > -- G
>
> I love it. I do hope you're saving all your ideas, Gary.
Actually, I haven't been saving anything. But when you said
you really liked my first idea on this subject, I reset my
news reader to save my messages. This just on the chance I
got the urge to maybe write it up in a letter to Core as a
suggestion for the next game. (I hate having to re-write
things from memory.) It wouldn't be the first time I wrote
to Core about TR. :)
I understand their next one will be completely different
(no tomb raiding). However, they could maybe make a gold
level that bridges the gap between TR 4/5 and TR NG.
> Please post
> them at some URL in the hopes that some young enterprising
> fresh-out-of-USC student who will inevitably be hired to write the TR
> film sequel will see it and steal with reckless, glorious abandon only
> to have West "simonize" it in post.
>
> Now there's an obscure reference for ya! WooHoo! Now I'm hungry.
You want me to post it somewhere for someone to plagiarize?
OK, any suggestions? :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> Bearing in mind that her teeny backpack seems to be a bottomless pit (full
> of shotguns, crossbows, uzis, ammo, flares, medpacks, etc) I guess she just
> opened it up and climbed right in. At the end of the game Von Croy finds the
> backpack in the rubble of the tomb and carries it away. Later on he opens it
> up to see why it's so heavy and out she pops, guns blazing as normal.
>
> Andy.
>
Hahaha... That almost makes sense, based on how that darn
backpack has worked in the past! Perhaps all those saved
up medi packs provides the needed cushion against the
rocks. :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> Excellent idea, let's hope Core/EIDOS are listening.
Looks like the consensus is I should write this up
and send it to Core. Any chance they'd read it?
If I do, and if Core comes out with a game or gold
level with at least part of it, you guys will hear a
loud thump and a wheeze. That will be me falling over
backwards and hitting the floor, gasping in disbelief. :)
Seriously, I very much doubt anything will come of my
efforts, but it can't hurt to try. If enough people do
the same, it may prompt them to actually do something
about it.
-- G
Cookiebear
that would mean;
Out of the pyramid, talks to Jean-Yves and Von-Croy. Together they figure
out what needs to be done, what was missed the first time. Von-Croy has
shadowy memories but they are better than nothing. Set also needs some time
to gather strength again like the last time. But this time he hasn't got
Lara unawares, the race is on, Lara's going to prove that she makes her own
destiny....
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B49AAD3...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Otaku
A lot of people seem to be digging up Set again. I don't like that
idea myself. I think the most obvious way for her to live is to have
survived the fall at the end of TR4 and found her way out of the
pyramid.
I agree it would be a good idea to start the next TR game with Lara
finding her way out of the tomb, and even have her stumble across
something that will start her on her next adventure, but I do NOT think
that another battle with Set is in order. First of all it's been done.
If they bring Set back out, they might as well call the next game Tomb
Raider: The Really Last Revelation (also known as "I Still Know What
You Did Last Game"). Secondly, the whole plot with Set was based on a
prophecy (whether real or made up for the game, I don't know) about the
Dark God coming back at the turn of a distant millennium. Well the
millennium is passed already, so let sleeping Gods lie, I say.
It was cool to have an entire game take place in Egypt. They didn't
have to waste time with "amazing exotic locations!" So the plot was a
lot tighter, which I liked. That doesn't mean I'd like to see the next
game take place in Egypt *again.* They should definitely deal with her
escape form the pyramid, but after that they should move her to
somewhere else and center the game in that part of the world.
PS. Daughter? What daughter? (this is known as
"I-refuse-to-acknoledge-the-existance-or-potential-existance-of-this-subplot"
syndrome, btw)
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
Don't forget to mail a copy to yourself and (snailmail) and don't open
it as a poorman's copyright :)
WR
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
If you're a Mac user iDisk is a great way to set up and manage a web
site. I'mnot sure about other free places. But if you make up a text
file I'll toss if up at my site if you'd like. I think I have about
80MBs of free space left with all my accounts.
WR
Gary Mitchell
> A lot of people seem to be digging up Set again. I don't like that
> idea myself.
I think that's because there are unresolved issues about Seth,
Horus, etc. The story wasn't "closed" neatly. And of course
the ultimate non-closure is the cliff-hanger itself.
Another thing that I have trouble letting go of is that
originally Seth was sort of dead (un-dead?) in this special
sarcophagus with the amulet as the seal. He was put there
by Horus, supposedly a more powerful *god*.
Now he's wildly throwing fire balls, running around in the
middle of the pyramid, shaking the whole thing, with the
amulet sealing up some little opening way up there, hastily
put there by Lara--sans god powers. It just doesn't seem
like he's *really* sealed in.
Furthermore, if you will recall from the video, the bolder
that closed off Lara's escape was topped off with the head
of Seth. That tells me Seth sealed her in.
This story line just begs to continue, doesn't it? :)
> I think the most obvious way for her to live is to have
> survived the fall at the end of TR4 and found her way out of the
> pyramid.
That's pretty much what everyone starts with, but by itself
it's such a "plain vanilla" way to go. We need something
more satisfying. If our story leaves Seth et al alone,
then Lara's escape needs to be something more than just
"she finds her way out."
> I agree it would be a good idea to start the next TR game with Lara
> finding her way out of the tomb, and even have her stumble across
> something that will start her on her next adventure, but I do NOT think
> that another battle with Set is in order. First of all it's been done.
In some ways, yes...but that battle wasn't really finished.
If Core intended that it *is* finished, then IMO, they did a
poor job of ending it.
> If they bring Set back out, they might as well call the next game Tomb
> Raider: The Really Last Revelation (also known as "I Still Know What
> You Did Last Game").
I see it more like a continuation of a longer story.
Core was talking about make the game more serialized
anyway.
> Secondly, the whole plot with Set was based on a
> prophecy (whether real or made up for the game, I don't know) about the
> Dark God coming back at the turn of a distant millennium. Well the
> millennium is passed already, so let sleeping Gods lie, I say.
Well, he *gets out* at the turn of the millennium. Just
because that point in time has passed doesn't mean he
has to pick up all his marbles and go home, does it? :)
> It was cool to have an entire game take place in Egypt. They didn't
> have to waste time with "amazing exotic locations!" So the plot was a
> lot tighter, which I liked. That doesn't mean I'd like to see the next
> game take place in Egypt *again.* They should definitely deal with her
> escape form the pyramid, but after that they should move her to
> somewhere else and center the game in that part of the world.
I agree. But even if Seth is free, we don't have to be
confined to Egypt.
> PS. Daughter? What daughter? (this is known as
> "I-refuse-to-acknoledge-the-existance-or-potential-existance-of-this-subplot"
> syndrome, btw)
Oooh, this is giving me another idea, a rather dark one.
Lara is trapped in the pyramid with Seth (more or less).
The Greek gods would sometimes take mortals as mates, yes?
Now, if Seth gets to Lara, and she has a daughter who is
half god... Hmmmm....
Is this getting a bit too weird? :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
If I send it to Core, I'll send you a copy. :)
I think it needs to be bounced around the NG a little
longer though. There's already one person that seems
to think Seth is now a has-been.
-- G
nick.mastroddi
expanded to a more original way to get her out than the 'I guess she just
ran away quickly' hypothesis. I guess I was wrong... ;-) I'm not saying that
it's wrong to assume that she could have ducked out of the way, but I think
that we're supposed to assume that she was underneath that stuff when it
fell, hence the funeral, yes?
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B49AFB4...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
already got bored of LC and pissed off to a quieter temple.
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4AD495...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
Silver
"Otaku" <swill...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B4A11D1...@home.com...
nick.mastroddi
all these non-daughter-involving plots off to Eidos and praying that they
haven't done what I think they've done... I just hope it's not too late.
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4ACC04...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Otaku
>
> Otaku wrote:
> > A lot of people seem to be digging up Set again. I don't like that
> > idea myself.
>
> I think that's because there are unresolved issues about Seth,
> Horus, etc. The story wasn't "closed" neatly. And of course
> the ultimate non-closure is the cliff-hanger itself.
>
> Another thing that I have trouble letting go of is that
> originally Seth was sort of dead (un-dead?) in this special
> sarcophagus with the amulet as the seal. He was put there
> by Horus, supposedly a more powerful *god*.
Horus also prophesised Set's return (iirc). The statue of Horus in
that final chamber was fairly obviously left there by Horus, or his
Egyptian followers, to serve as a new prison for Set once he got out of
the old one, hence the gate which Lara closed after the fight that just
happened to have a space for the ankh which had originally imprisoned
him.
> Now he's wildly throwing fire balls, running around in the
> middle of the pyramid, shaking the whole thing, with the
> amulet sealing up some little opening way up there, hastily
> put there by Lara--sans god powers. It just doesn't seem
> like he's *really* sealed in.
True he could theoretically dig a new hole out of that cavern and
around the gate, but then what was stopping him from busting off the
sides of the coffin he was stuck in in the first place? I think there's
something about the ankh, maybe and energy field or something, that
surrounds the whole area. Then again maybe I'm just rationalizing
closure to the plot line because I don't want to see it come back again
=).
> Furthermore, if you will recall from the video, the bolder
> that closed off Lara's escape was topped off with the head
> of Seth. That tells me Seth sealed her in.
Set did seal her in. I think most of us have accepted that he was the
one shaking the pyramid around while Lara was trying to escape.
> This story line just begs to continue, doesn't it? :)
I admit it could continue, but I still don't it to. I think it got
wrapped up sufficiently.
> That's pretty much what everyone starts with, but by itself
> it's such a "plain vanilla" way to go. We need something
> more satisfying. If our story leaves Seth et al alone,
> then Lara's escape needs to be something more than just
> "she finds her way out."
Oh of course. There has to be something to get her going on the next
quest. Maybe she'll spend a few levels of the next game trying to find
a way to permify the seal holding Set in (I know I would).
> > If they bring Set back out, they might as well call the next game Tomb
> > Raider: The Really Last Revelation (also known as "I Still Know What
> > You Did Last Game").
>
> I see it more like a continuation of a longer story.
> Core was talking about make the game more serialized
> anyway.
I sort of thought that would begin with the next game.
> Well, he *gets out* at the turn of the millennium. Just
> because that point in time has passed doesn't mean he
> has to pick up all his marbles and go home, does it? :)
Er, yes. *scrambles for justification*
> > It was cool to have an entire game take place in Egypt. They didn't
> > have to waste time with "amazing exotic locations!" So the plot was a
> > lot tighter, which I liked. That doesn't mean I'd like to see the next
> > game take place in Egypt *again.* They should definitely deal with her
> > escape form the pyramid, but after that they should move her to
> > somewhere else and center the game in that part of the world.
>
> I agree. But even if Seth is free, we don't have to be
> confined to Egypt.
That's true, I suppose. It could be done, but it would have to be done
*right.* I honestly don't know how to do it right, but I haven't been
partial to any of the fan suggestions I've heard so far.
> > PS. Daughter? What daughter? (this is known as
> > "I-refuse-to-acknoledge-the-existance-or-potential-existance-of-this-subplot"
> > syndrome, btw)
>
> Oooh, this is giving me another idea, a rather dark one.
>
> Lara is trapped in the pyramid with Seth (more or less).
> The Greek gods would sometimes take mortals as mates, yes?
> Now, if Seth gets to Lara, and she has a daughter who is
> half god... Hmmmm....
>
> Is this getting a bit too weird? :)
Yes. =) A curious plot twist, but not incredibly TR-ish to my mind.
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> Lara is trapped in the pyramid with Seth (more or less).
> The Greek gods would sometimes take mortals as mates, yes?
> Now, if Seth gets to Lara, and she has a daughter who is
> half god... Hmmmm....
>
> Is this getting a bit too weird? :)
>
> -- G
I LOVE that idea...I say run with it. That would be MOSt
interesting...the love-hate Lara would have for her daughter would be
incredible...
WR
Womb Raider
nick.mastroddi <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I want NO CHILDREN in plot suggestions - I plan to send
> all these non-daughter-involving plots off to Eidos and praying that they
> haven't done what I think they've done... I just hope it's not too late.
>
> Silver
No no no, the half god daughter is a relly nice idea. Teh mental angst
tearing apart lara's heart would be a really interesting sub-plot to
all this. It would keep me VERY interested.
WR
Gary Mitchell
>
> No need for sarcasm, I was just wondering if your creative brilliance
Oh, please, just a little sarcasm? It can be so much
fun sometimes. ;)
> expanded to a more original way to get her out than the 'I guess she just
> ran away quickly' hypothesis.
Getting out and getting away is only the start of it. The
main point is dealing with Seth, etc. He wasn't actually
after Lara specifically before (except for a short while
at the very end). In my version, now he is! Kind of a
scary prospect, isn't it? :)
> I guess I was wrong... ;-) I'm not saying that
> it's wrong to assume that she could have ducked out of the way, but I think
> that we're supposed to assume that she was underneath that stuff when it
> fell, hence the funeral, yes?
I don't think so. If we were to assume that, then what
incentive is there to buy the next game in the series. ;)
From the video, it seemed pretty clear to me that the vast
bulk of the debris fell first. The only thing really above
her was the stone that blocked the way out (which is still
there) and only the floor gave way.
Recall, the priest (in TR C) said this was but a memorial
service, there may yet be word from Von Croy...
That part of Core's story seems very strange to me. Who in
their right mind has a memorial service *while* a rescue
attempt is under way? (TR C is supposed to be happening
just days after TR 4.)
As for my idea...I acknowledge that Seth is still rattling
around in the bowels of the pyramid and it's not clear what
exactly happened to Horus. The main plot of TR 4 was to
awaken Horus to put Seth back in the bottle. That didn't
happen--a major loose end! So, in my view, TR 4 should be
part of a larger game.
Now, if we give up on Seth and Horus, we not only leave a
big loose end floating, but the story just becomes one of
Lara being physically trapped. If the next game picks up
there, the goal is simply to find a way out. Once done,
that's it. Not very satisfying.
Even if Lara doesn't take a break and starts the next
adventure right away, the story line is wide open for
anything at that point. We might as well just say Lara
finds a way out somehow and then speculate about her next
totally new adventure.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> 'Evil is fragile and stupid'.
That's not what history teaches.
> Seth's a god, but as a god he's probably
> already got bored of LC and pissed off to a quieter temple.
But TR 4 never gave any hint of that, quite the opposite.
Besides, Seth isn't the quiet type. :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I want NO CHILDREN in plot suggestions - I plan to send
> all these non-daughter-involving plots off to Eidos and praying that they
> haven't done what I think they've done... I just hope it's not too late.
You got something against kids? ;)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
> Horus also prophesised Set's return (iirc).
Wasn't it Horus' high priest Semerkhet? No matter...
> The statue of Horus in
> that final chamber was fairly obviously left there by Horus, or his
> Egyptian followers, to serve as a new prison for Set once he got out of
> the old one, hence the gate which Lara closed after the fight that just
> happened to have a space for the ankh which had originally imprisoned
> him.
I'm having trouble buying your interpretation of the statue
of Horus, but you *do* have a point about that amulet holder.
On the other hand, we find *many* strange things in TR.
> > Now he's wildly throwing fire balls, running around in the
> > middle of the pyramid, shaking the whole thing, with the
> > amulet sealing up some little opening way up there, hastily
> > put there by Lara--sans god powers. It just doesn't seem
> > like he's *really* sealed in.
>
> True he could theoretically dig a new hole out of that cavern and
> around the gate, but then what was stopping him from busting off the
> sides of the coffin he was stuck in in the first place? I think there's
> something about the ankh, maybe and energy field or something, that
> surrounds the whole area. Then again maybe I'm just rationalizing
> closure to the plot line because I don't want to see it come back again
> =).
Remember the video about Seth originally getting sealed
in that sarcophagus? That was no ordinary coffin! Spikes
and lightning, etc. Yikes!
Furthermore, in the video where Horus starts to come to
life, Seth comes rushing in (as a horde of locusts) through
a side entrance. At least it looked like a side entrance.
> Set did seal her in. I think most of us have accepted that he was the
> one shaking the pyramid around while Lara was trying to escape.
That's part of what gave me the idea. Seth was quite
out of it when sealed in the sarcophagus--his blood was
even turning to dust. Nothing of the kind with Lara's
effort. In fact, as we all seem to be agreeing, he was
still plenty active/powerful enough to seal in Lara.
> > Well, he *gets out* at the turn of the millennium. Just
> > because that point in time has passed doesn't mean he
> > has to pick up all his marbles and go home, does it? :)
>
> Er, yes. *scrambles for justification*
What is it with some of you guys? Is it that you didn't
like having gods in the game in the first place or you've
had enough of gods in the game? I thought it was a pretty
interesting aspect myself.
Either way, I hasten to point out that TR has always had
this element to it. Maybe not always Egyptian gods, but...
> > I agree. But even if Seth is free, we don't have to be
> > confined to Egypt.
>
> That's true, I suppose. It could be done, but it would have to be done
> *right.* I honestly don't know how to do it right, but I haven't been
> partial to any of the fan suggestions I've heard so far.
Curiously enough, other ideas haven't exactly been flooding
in, have they?
I was sort of hoping we'd have several good story ideas.
We'd pick out the best parts of each to make a truly
fantastic story. Then wave that one around.
> > Oooh, this is giving me another idea, a rather dark one.
> >
> > Lara is trapped in the pyramid with Seth (more or less).
> > The Greek gods would sometimes take mortals as mates, yes?
> > Now, if Seth gets to Lara, and she has a daughter who is
> > half god... Hmmmm....
> >
> > Is this getting a bit too weird? :)
>
> Yes. =) A curious plot twist, but not incredibly TR-ish to my mind.
Really? The way TR has gone so far, that sort of thing
seems like it might be a definite risk. On the other hand,
I forget: you're quite ready to put the gods to bed. ;)
-- G
nick.mastroddi
per earlier, but she's just pretending to be dead so she can collect some
money, or escape Von Croy, or something equally devious!!
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4C0D70...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
let her go. Finishing the series is one thing (impossible, but you know),
but selling out like that just to stop fan's accusations of a really bad
plot sickens me.
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4C1074...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Otaku
>
> Otaku wrote:
>
> > Horus also prophesised Set's return (iirc).
>
> Wasn't it Horus' high priest Semerkhet? No matter...
Same difference.
> > The statue of Horus in
> > that final chamber was fairly obviously left there by Horus, or his
> > Egyptian followers, to serve as a new prison for Set once he got out of
> > the old one, hence the gate which Lara closed after the fight that just
> > happened to have a space for the ankh which had originally imprisoned
> > him.
>
> I'm having trouble buying your interpretation of the statue
> of Horus, but you *do* have a point about that amulet holder.
> On the other hand, we find *many* strange things in TR.
Well if Horus and/or his followers didn't put it there, who did?
> > True he could theoretically dig a new hole out of that cavern and
> > around the gate, but then what was stopping him from busting off the
> > sides of the coffin he was stuck in in the first place? I think there's
> > something about the ankh, maybe and energy field or something, that
> > surrounds the whole area. Then again maybe I'm just rationalizing
> > closure to the plot line because I don't want to see it come back again
> > =).
>
> Remember the video about Seth originally getting sealed
> in that sarcophagus? That was no ordinary coffin! Spikes
> and lightning, etc. Yikes!
Actually I had forgotten that bit. How's this then: Set was originally
using Von Croy's body to run around causing trouble, right? He
evidently abandoned it sometime before the final fight, since Von Croy
was still outside, but maybe the reason he did that was because he was
weakened by all those millennia inside his coffin. Maybe he had gained
enough power by the end of the game to incarnate his own body, but still
wasn't at maximum power. And that's why he could shake the pyramid
around and yet not escape the cavern.
One big long string of suppositions used to justify my point of view,
I know, but still.
> Furthermore, in the video where Horus starts to come to
> life, Seth comes rushing in (as a horde of locusts) through
> a side entrance. At least it looked like a side entrance.
No, he came down through the same hole Lara did, the one that Lara
closed the gate over as she escaped. The camera was just at an odd
angle, so it sort of looked like it was a hole in the wall.
> That's part of what gave me the idea. Seth was quite
> out of it when sealed in the sarcophagus--his blood was
> even turning to dust. Nothing of the kind with Lara's
> effort. In fact, as we all seem to be agreeing, he was
> still plenty active/powerful enough to seal in Lara.
I must confess you have a point, nevertheless see my argument above.
> What is it with some of you guys? Is it that you didn't
> like having gods in the game in the first place or you've
> had enough of gods in the game? I thought it was a pretty
> interesting aspect myself.
Gods in the game are great. A single god who keeps coming back game
after game is just annoying. Now with this new "episode" format that
Eidos was talking about, I could see and understand recurring villains,
still I would hope that at least the big uppity baddies would be getting
kaked every "season" or so.
I mean, if the game degenerates into "Lara vs Set" in every sequel (or
Lara vs Someone Else), then the game line will quickly fall off and
die. This is something of an exaggeration - even if Set does come back
for TR6, I doubt he'd be in TR7. Still, I've always thought one of TR's
strong suits is that it's a new plot every game. New baddies, new
artifacts, new weapons.
> Either way, I hasten to point out that TR has always had
> this element to it. Maybe not always Egyptian gods, but...
Yes, the big uber-baddies have always been there, and much as I have
cursed the difficulty of beating the final bosses in TR1-3, I have
always loved their existence plot-wise. Still, it deserves noting that
each one of those uberpowerful bosses met their maker within the
confines of one game.
> > That's true, I suppose. It could be done, but it would have to be done
> > *right.* I honestly don't know how to do it right, but I haven't been
> > partial to any of the fan suggestions I've heard so far.
>
> Curiously enough, other ideas haven't exactly been flooding
> in, have they?
I know. I'd offer something fresh of my own, but I don't have anything
=)
> > Yes. =) A curious plot twist, but not incredibly TR-ish to my mind.
>
> Really? The way TR has gone so far, that sort of thing
> seems like it might be a definite risk. On the other hand,
> I forget: you're quite ready to put the gods to bed. ;)
Lara has always been the solitary adventurer to me. Her parents
disowned her, the aunt whom she got her mansion from died (obviously if
Lara inherited it). The only person who's really connected to Lara is
Winston, and he only shows up in the training levels at her mansion. I
suppose TRC began to change this, by introducing the priest and that
Russian guy, but still it seems odd to bringing in new family members.
Especially daughters and/or sons, regardless of how they got conceived.
Gary Mitchell
>
> Oooooh.. I have an idea. Maybe the lady wasn't underneath and she escapes as
> per earlier, but she's just pretending to be dead so she can collect some
> money, or escape Von Croy, or something equally devious!!
That doesn't sound like something Lara would do. For one
thing, she doesn't need the money (remember, from TR 1: "I
only play for sport"). So, what would be her reasoning?
Let's hear more of the story.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> Yes. I hate children and small animals. ;-) No, I just love Lara too much to
> let her go. Finishing the series is one thing (impossible, but you know),
> but selling out like that just to stop fan's accusations of a really bad
> plot sickens me.
What do you mean let Lara go? I never intended to get
rid of Lara. She stays forever! :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
Does this mean I have to develop two stories? One with
Lara vs Seth, the second as Lara + Seth. :)
Oh no, here comes another idea... Silver will just *love*
it! It has both Lara's kids *and* Egyptian gods. ;)
Regarding the latter plot: Horus gets himself back in
action and we have a love triangle. Since two are gods,
the fight over Lara gets rather impressive. Lara has
*Seth's* kid, then Horus... Somebody stop me. :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> Gary Mitchell wrote:
> > Remember the video about Seth originally getting sealed
> > in that sarcophagus? That was no ordinary coffin! Spikes
> > and lightning, etc. Yikes!
>
> Actually I had forgotten that bit. How's this then: Set was originally
> using Von Croy's body to run around causing trouble, right? He
> evidently abandoned it sometime before the final fight, since Von Croy
> was still outside, but maybe the reason he did that was because he was
> weakened by all those millennia inside his coffin. Maybe he had gained
> enough power by the end of the game to incarnate his own body, but still
> wasn't at maximum power. And that's why he could shake the pyramid
> around and yet not escape the cavern.
> One big long string of suppositions used to justify my point of view,
> I know, but still.
Well, there was a lot of stuff going on: monsters, super
beetles and scorpions, green and blood red sky... not the sort
of things I'd expect from a weakling god. And then that major
plot twist at the end--Seth snatching Horus' body from him.
I sure didn't see *that* coming.
However, as you supposed, that might have been Horus' trap,
along with the amulet thing above the chamber. That by itself
is odd, since it requires nearly super-human ability to close
the trap, (i.e. not only was Seth shooting at Lara, but he was
following her up). If that was Core's idea all along, they
didn't do a good enough job of it in my view.
It just doesn't seem consistent. In the video of Seth's first
incarceration, he seemed to be powerless before Horus. So,
why the need for all the trickery the second time around?
You don't need tricks if your opponent is significantly weaker.
I suppose now you'll tell me Horus was weakened after all
that time too.. :)
I'm just having a lot of trouble buying it.
> > What is it with some of you guys? Is it that you didn't
> > like having gods in the game in the first place or you've
> > had enough of gods in the game? I thought it was a pretty
> > interesting aspect myself.
>
> Gods in the game are great. A single god who keeps coming back game
> after game is just annoying. Now with this new "episode" format that
> Eidos was talking about, I could see and understand recurring villains,
> still I would hope that at least the big uppity baddies would be getting
> kaked every "season" or so.
TR 4 really didn't "end." I'm certainly not suggesting Seth
come back game after game, but by the same token, we need to
finish him off properly. :)
> Still, I've always thought one of TR's
> strong suits is that it's a new plot every game. New baddies, new
> artifacts, new weapons.
[snip]
> Still, it deserves noting that
> each one of those uberpowerful bosses met their maker within the
> confines of one game.
The game format has always lent itself to that sort of thing.
But this new serialized format lends itself more toward the
recurring baddie...at least over a few episodes. It seemed
to me they're trying to do that now, given the way TR 4 ended.
> Lara has always been the solitary adventurer to me. Her parents
> disowned her, the aunt whom she got her mansion from died (obviously if
> Lara inherited it). The only person who's really connected to Lara is
> Winston, and he only shows up in the training levels at her mansion. I
> suppose TRC began to change this, by introducing the priest and that
> Russian guy, but still it seems odd to bringing in new family members.
> Especially daughters and/or sons, regardless of how they got conceived.
You're forgetting about Jean-Yves! He's not a family
member, but neither is Winston. At least Jean-Yves
is a colleague, Winston sort of came with the house.
Until TRC (really TR 1 & 2), I think many of us considered
Winston to be more of an annoyance than anything else.
Hence the famous trick of locking him in the freezer. :)
If Lara settled down and had kids, of course that would
put a damper on the adventuring. However, my "Seth
getting to Lara" idea, would be part of an adventure.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> In article <3B4ACC04...@ix.nospam.netcom.com>, Gary Mitchell
> <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Lara is trapped in the pyramid with Seth (more or less).
> > The Greek gods would sometimes take mortals as mates, yes?
> > Now, if Seth gets to Lara, and she has a daughter who is
> > half god... Hmmmm....
> >
> > Is this getting a bit too weird? :)
>
> interesting...the love-hate Lara would have for her daughter would be
> incredible...
>
> WR
Well, we need something that *most* people will like.
This plot line is a definite challenge in that respect.
We've already got people who don't want anything more
to do with Seth. And some are threatening great bodily
harm and even taking out Eidos if Lara pushes out a
child. :)
Many people like having Lara as a lone adventurer (for the
most part). If she just had normal kids, that would be a
problem. We really can't go there. But in this case, we
can go in all sorts of directions.
At first I was thinking Seth simply rapes her, but now
I'm toying with this: Seth gives her a choice: bear my
kid or watch your friends die and the world suffer...Or
maybe they just stay trapped until Lara dies and run
the risk that Seth will eventually get out anyway.
Why? Well, with a son/daughter Seth could build a
power base that would overwhelm any other god, starting
with Horus. Lara reluctantly goes along to buy time to
work on Seth's demise and give the world a reprieve.
She makes the mistake of assuming Seth's offspring would
take years to grow, like a normal human. ;)
We still have the problem of how to get Horus back. And
we'll soon have the problem of Seth and his son/daughter.
Or maybe Lara gets the kid to help battle Seth?
Hmmm, still need to work in your love-hate relationship...
Maybe a little Star Wars flavor thrown in for fun:
Seth: Lara never told you about your father.
Lara Jr: She told me enough, that *you* killed him.
Seth: No. *I* am your father.
Lara Jr: No...That's impossible!
Seth: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
Lara Jr: NOOOOooooooo...
OK, sorry. I'll go now. :)
-- G
Otaku
> However, as you supposed, that might have been Horus' trap,
> along with the amulet thing above the chamber. That by itself
> is odd, since it requires nearly super-human ability to close
> the trap, (i.e. not only was Seth shooting at Lara, but he was
> following her up). If that was Core's idea all along, they
> didn't do a good enough job of it in my view.
>
> It just doesn't seem consistent. In the video of Seth's first
> incarceration, he seemed to be powerless before Horus. So,
> why the need for all the trickery the second time around?
> You don't need tricks if your opponent is significantly weaker.
>
> I suppose now you'll tell me Horus was weakened after all
> that time too.. :)
Well, no. Horus was free to roam around wherever gods roam, so he
wouldn't be weak at all. Perhaps he needed that statue to gain a body
on the physical plane, though. I don't know much about Egyptian
mythology. Hence when Set stole the statue as Horua was coming down, he
effectively shut the heavenly doors in Horus's face.
> > Gods in the game are great. A single god who keeps coming back game
> > after game is just annoying. Now with this new "episode" format that
> > Eidos was talking about, I could see and understand recurring villains,
> > still I would hope that at least the big uppity baddies would be getting
> > kaked every "season" or so.
>
> TR 4 really didn't "end." I'm certainly not suggesting Seth
> come back game after game, but by the same token, we need to
> finish him off properly. :)
Fair enough. I still think he should down for the count though.
nick.mastroddi
it just *because* she was devious, hmmm..?
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4D637A...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
PLEASE
You're killing me slowly.
<shudder>
I'm sorry, but that's all just......
<shudder>
Oh God you people. I thought I could trust you. I was evidently mistaken.
You *want* to cause me pain.
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4D6CCA...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
heroines. They'd kill off Lara, if she wasn't already dead, and you know it.
They're dumb enough. Look at the movie. They effed that up.
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4D6B25...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> Does this mean I have to develop two stories? One with
> Lara vs Seth, the second as Lara + Seth. :)
>
> Oh no, here comes another idea... Silver will just *love*
> it! It has both Lara's kids *and* Egyptian gods. ;)
>
> Regarding the latter plot: Horus gets himself back in
> action and we have a love triangle. Since two are gods,
> the fight over Lara gets rather impressive. Lara has
> *Seth's* kid, then Horus... Somebody stop me. :)
>
> -- G
How about Lara has to rescue her half-god daughter from the vengeful
god persuing her? What if various people she meets are inhabited by an
angry god. Who can she trust? Maybe only her daughter can sense who's
possesed so Lara uses her as a barometer, but she can't until she
finds/rescues her.
Or we could work on "Questing the Lost Hotpants" and have lara running
around au natural until she finds her clothes.
or both!
WR
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> At first I was thinking Seth simply rapes her, but now
> I'm toying with this: Seth gives her a choice: bear my
> kid or watch your friends die and the world suffer
That I like a great deal.
> Why? Well, with a son/daughter Seth could build a
> power base that would overwhelm any other god, starting
> with Horus. Lara reluctantly goes along to buy time to
> work on Seth's demise and give the world a reprieve.
> She makes the mistake of assuming Seth's offspring would
> take years to grow, like a normal human. ;)
Good!
> We still have the problem of how to get Horus back. And
> we'll soon have the problem of Seth and his son/daughter.
> Or maybe Lara gets the kid to help battle Seth?
See my previous post about using the kid as a barometer to weed out
possessed people.
> Seth: Lara never told you about your father.
> Lara Jr: She told me enough, that *you* killed him.
> Seth: No. *I* am your father.
> Lara Jr: No...That's impossible!
> Seth: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
> Lara Jr: NOOOOooooooo...
You'll need a Wookie. Definatly a Wookie.
WR
Gary Mitchell
>
> So what, I can't dream? I know she doesn't do it for money, but she might do
> it just *because* she was devious, hmmm..?
OK, so, well...let's hear more of the story.
My only point was that since she doesn't need the money,
your work would be cut out for you to come up with a
good reason why she'd go this route. Just saying "she's
devious" hardly does it...or did you intend to just
suggest ideas, not develop the plot?
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> STOP STOP STOP STOP
>
> PLEASE
>
> You're killing me slowly.
>
> <shudder>
>
> I'm sorry, but that's all just......
>
> <shudder>
>
> Oh God you people. I thought I could trust you. I was evidently mistaken.
> You *want* to cause me pain.
>
> Silver
Take *THAT* aaaand THAT... HAHAHAHAH... ;)
.... let me take notes here...sometimes it's valuable
to keep track of people's weak spots. ;)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> In article <3B4D6CCA...@ix.nospam.netcom.com>, Gary Mitchell
> <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Does this mean I have to develop two stories? One with
> > Lara vs Seth, the second as Lara + Seth. :)
> >
> > Oh no, here comes another idea... Silver will just *love*
> > it! It has both Lara's kids *and* Egyptian gods. ;)
> >
> > Regarding the latter plot: Horus gets himself back in
> > action and we have a love triangle. Since two are gods,
> > the fight over Lara gets rather impressive. Lara has
> > *Seth's* kid, then Horus... Somebody stop me. :)
> >
> > -- G
>
> How about Lara has to rescue her half-god daughter from the vengeful
> god persuing her?
That would be Horus? (Later, when Horus gets out and
comes after Seth...and his offspring.) I think we're
getting closer to Lara's love-hate relationship with
her daughter that you wanted.
> What if various people she meets are inhabited by an
> angry god. Who can she trust? Maybe only her daughter can sense who's
> possesed so Lara uses her as a barometer, but she can't until she
> finds/rescues her.
How would that work...Horus comes back with help?
> Or we could work on "Questing the Lost Hotpants" and have lara running
> around au natural until she finds her clothes.
There ya go, the ultimate nude raider!
Let's see, how does this happen... I know: When Seth was
getting her pregnant, he made all her clothes disappear.
By the way, are we going to have a sex scene too or does
Seth just go "zap" and she's got it?
If we keep going like this, we'll alienate almost everyone.
You realize that don't you? :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> Gary Mitchell wrote:
> > that time too.. :)
>
> Well, no. Horus was free to roam around wherever gods roam, so he
> wouldn't be weak at all. Perhaps he needed that statue to gain a body
> on the physical plane, though. I don't know much about Egyptian
> mythology. Hence when Set stole the statue as Horua was coming down, he
> effectively shut the heavenly doors in Horus's face.
Ok, I think I could go along with that.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> In article <3B4D87E3...@ix.nospam.netcom.com>, Gary Mitchell
> <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > At first I was thinking Seth simply rapes her, but now
> > I'm toying with this: Seth gives her a choice: bear my
> > kid or watch your friends die and the world suffer
>
> That I like a great deal.
We then have the situation of Seth making a contract.
Does he hold up his end of the bargain? Since he is a
god, maybe the agreement carries some sort of supernatural
power. Ultimately, that might be the key to his undoing,
especially if we don't get help from Horus. (Otaku, in a
previous message, made a pretty good point about Seth
closing off the heavens when he rushed in and took over
Horus' statue at the last second).
> > Why? Well, with a son/daughter Seth could build a
> > power base that would overwhelm any other god, starting
> > with Horus. Lara reluctantly goes along to buy time to
> > work on Seth's demise and give the world a reprieve.
> > She makes the mistake of assuming Seth's offspring would
> > take years to grow, like a normal human. ;)
>
> Good!
>
> > We still have the problem of how to get Horus back. And
> > we'll soon have the problem of Seth and his son/daughter.
> > Or maybe Lara gets the kid to help battle Seth?
>
> See my previous post about using the kid as a barometer to weed out
> possessed people.
I keep getting this mental image of Lara walking around with
the kid, holding him/her by the shoulders, pointing him/her
at people watching for his/her head to glow or something.
> > Seth: Lara never told you about your father.
> > Lara Jr: She told me enough, that *you* killed him.
> > Seth: No. *I* am your father.
> > Lara Jr: No...That's impossible!
> > Seth: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
> > Lara Jr: NOOOOooooooo...
>
> You'll need a Wookie. Definatly a Wookie.
OK, well, let's see...
Seth was pretty good about making monsters (demons?). How
about if he makes up a special one to keep tabs on Lara and
junior? Hmmm... WINSTON! He zaps Winston! Seth intended
a gorilla type creature, but since Winston is this unusually
nice fellow, he becomes a tall, hairy, lanky chap with a
speech impediment. ;)
-- G
Mustang
> Well, let's see...
>
> Lara locked Seth in with the amulet. It seems turnabout is
> fair play--Seth locks Lara in the pyramid. In the initial
> fall (remember, the floor was giving way), Lara loses her
> backpack. While Von Croy's people find the backpack, Lara
> is deep in the pyramid struggling to find a way out while
> staying one step ahead of Seth.
>
> Scenario 1, Lara gets lucky (for the moment)
> Seth's tantrums eventually shake open a passage way, similar
> to how they shifted stuff around to trap Lara in the first
> place. Lara finally finds an opening and escapes. All the
> shaking knocks the amulet from its holder and Seth slips out
> the same way or through another opening. Perhaps the same
> thing that knocks loose the amulet also makes an opening for
> Lara...maybe unbeknownst to her at the time.
>
> Scenario 2, moral dilemma
> Lara doesn't have any food, but there is water in the pyramid
> (remember, we swam in places). Days pass and she's getting
> desperate, (Lara doesn't have much fat to live on). While
> roaming the bowels of the pyramid looking for a way out (and
> while avoiding Seth), she finds and inscription telling her
> a way...The only way out is to pull the amulet from its
> holder. That would also free Seth...hence, the dilemma.
> Lara decides it would be better to fight Seth on the outside.
> After all, there are likely to be search parties that would
> eventually find her body--and they may grab the amulet--freeing
> Seth anyway. Plus, it isn't ancient times anymore, modern
> weapons were able to destroy Seth's monsters. So, she pulls
> the amulet and makes a run for it.
>
> So, now Lara *and* Seth are free. The Amulet is still in
> the pyramid (scenario 1) or Lara has it (scenario 2). Seth
> is pissed off at Lara. Horus is pissed off at Seth, but is
> still stuck in a god's version of limbo (because of Seth's
> attack).
>
> Everyone is happy to see Lara and she's happy to be free, but
> the celebrations have to be kept short--there's no time to
> waste. Lara consults with Jean-Yves to figure out how to
> exorcise Seth from Horus (their only hope). The key is the
> amulet. Recall, it blasted off of Horus just as Seth crashed
> in and possessed him (apparently just in the nick of time
> from Seth's perspective).
>
> Watch your back, Lara! Seth is causing some trouble, but not
> too much--he's busy tracking you down! The ultimate timed
> puzzle and boss level? :)
>
> And we're off with the next adventure!
>
> How's that for a quick 'n dirty first try? :)
Good! It all makes sense now I've finished TLR! :)
-Mustang
nick.mastroddi
surely. Come on, humour me.
Silver
Sorry for the snip but I'm not going back now...
nick.mastroddi
Silver
"Womb Raider" <wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com> wrote in message
news:130720010211004329%wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com...
nick.mastroddi
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B4EFA1E...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
Otaku
>
> You know, there's probably a Core person out there right now taking notes...
If so, we should definitely mention the NO CHILDREN FOR LARA thing.
Like, a lot. And over and over.
Cookiebear
bow wow,.... chicka chicka chick chick,...bow wow..."
Your basic porn groove. Strangely "porn groove" is a music genre in win amp.
Cookiebear
movable force able to manifest its self in many forms and take over the
minds of people. He is now trapped in a body. This was possibly the trap
made for Seth to fall into. And he fell for it. Or a kind of catch 22, Seth
either lets Horus arrive or takes on a bodily form which can be trapped by
the amulet and capable tomb raider/gymnast, Seth took what you would think
would be the best option. After all, no mortal can stand up to a god and
live to tell the tale.....
"Mustang" <I'llShootSpammersWi...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
message news:I2G37.26689$WS4.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > How about Lara has to rescue her half-god daughter from the vengeful
> > god persuing her?
>
> That would be Horus? (Later, when Horus gets out and
> comes after Seth...and his offspring.) I think we're
> getting closer to Lara's love-hate relationship with
> her daughter that you wanted.
>
Yes exactly. I'm actually really interested in how Lara's character
would act/react to her bastard daughter. The motherly instinct would
have to kick in at some point and battle Lara's fear and distrust.
Facinating I think.
> > What if various people she meets are inhabited by an
> > angry god. Who can she trust? Maybe only her daughter can sense who's
> > possesed so Lara uses her as a barometer, but she can't until she
> > finds/rescues her.
>
> How would that work...Horus comes back with help?
Could be, yeah. I'll have to think about it. As Von Croy was possessed
maybe others can be and Lara can no longer trust anyone other than
herself and perhaps, at some point, her daughter.
>
> > Or we could work on "Questing the Lost Hotpants" and have lara running
> > around au natural until she finds her clothes.
>
> There ya go, the ultimate nude raider!
>
> Let's see, how does this happen... I know: When Seth was
> getting her pregnant, he made all her clothes disappear.
> By the way, are we going to have a sex scene too or does
> Seth just go "zap" and she's got it?
Firat off Seth tears her outfit to shreads as he tears it asunder from
her glistening tight hardbody. I'm staring to sound like Bret Easton
Ellison now...scary. So it's lost. Maybe lara has a spare outfit in her
backpack but what's this...the backpack is gone! Now, what else is
there to wear in a tomb? ;)
About the sex scene. Hmm. Tricky. Rape is a sensitive topic like
religion. But people talk about religion all the time.
I kinda go for hinted horrors myself. It's much more disturbing to only
have a glimpse as to what happens, then the imagination takes over and
creates something far more personal and horrifying than someone can
show. Obviously this paradigm doesn't work with unimaginative people
very well.
I favor the confrontation, then cut to Lara getting up, shreads of
clothes sliding off her as she wipes tears and grime away and grimaces
in pain. Her back is scraped, blood mixing with sweat and dirt. Maybe
she takes a few steps and falls to her knees clutching her groin. Looks
back at where Seth was and puts a hand over her pre-heating oven.
>
> If we keep going like this, we'll alienate almost everyone.
> You realize that don't you? :)
>
> -- G
That's the story of my life. But it helps weed out the "uncool" people
:)
My view is if you're going to write a story be true to the characters,
history and world they inhabit. Never write for your audience, let your
audience find you.
WR (ducks from the stonethrowers and moletov cocktails)
Womb Raider
<nos...@thisplace.org> wrote:
I picture it more to something classical, slow, Bach perhaps.
Wr
Womb Raider
nick.mastroddi <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Put Nick down as preferring both ideas fused together :)
WR
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> > See my previous post about using the kid as a barometer to weed out
> > possessed people.
>
> I keep getting this mental image of Lara walking around with
> the kid, holding him/her by the shoulders, pointing him/her
> at people watching for his/her head to glow or something.
Yes! Me too. Lara always studying the kid's face for a reaction. She
gets nervous when she can't see the face.
> > You'll need a Wookie. Definatly a Wookie.
>
> OK, well, let's see...
> Seth was pretty good about making monsters (demons?). How
> about if he makes up a special one to keep tabs on Lara and
> junior? Hmmm... WINSTON! He zaps Winston! Seth intended
> a gorilla type creature, but since Winston is this unusually
> nice fellow, he becomes a tall, hairy, lanky chap with a
> speech impediment. ;)
>
> -- G
I wonder if Croft Manor's shower will get as clogged as the shower
aboard the Millenium Falcon.
Han "No it's your hair you unclog it."
Chewie grunts and bitches as usual.
Han "Look, I don't care how long it takes you to brush yourself. I have
my own problems to worry about.
Chewie once again mumbles something unintelligible.
Han "Don't make me shave you."
Chewie smiles and grunts a few times.
Han looking flumoxed "When did she groom you? For how long?"
Chewie saunters off to clean the ships bathroom.
> > > At first I was thinking Seth simply rapes her, but now
> > > I'm toying with this: Seth gives her a choice: bear my
> > > kid or watch your friends die and the world suffer
> >
> > That I like a great deal.
>
> We then have the situation of Seth making a contract.
> Does he hold up his end of the bargain? Since he is a
> god, maybe the agreement carries some sort of supernatural
> power. Ultimately, that might be the key to his undoing,
> especially if we don't get help from Horus. (Otaku, in a
> previous message, made a pretty good point about Seth
> closing off the heavens when he rushed in and took over
> Horus' statue at the last second).
That may work and there's nothing wrong with a supernatural contract
but it reminds me (personally) of too many Twilight Zone episodes where
someone has a contract with Mr. Scratch. Figuring this stuff out is the
meat of storytelling... :) Or you can take West's route and "when in
doubt, shoot stuff."
WR
Womb Raider
nick.mastroddi <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> You know, there's probably a Core person out there right now taking notes...
>
> Silver
We can only hope. I hope that West and his army of typesetters and
creative typists are smacking their collective forheads right now as
they madly scribble all ths down with the other collective hand. And
being the wise man that he is, Gary is archiving all of this for later
:)
WR
Womb Raider
wrote:
Somehow I sense that Lara already has children. Only we have yet to
learn of them :)
WR
Cookiebear
We can get a good deal on a used one from the Beijing organ transplant
prison.
"Womb Raider" <wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com> wrote in message
news:140720010106528554%wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com...
Otaku
>
> The big thing is that Seth, now has a bodily form rather than being a
> movable force able to manifest its self in many forms and take over the
> minds of people. He is now trapped in a body. This was possibly the trap
> made for Seth to fall into. And he fell for it. Or a kind of catch 22, Seth
> either lets Horus arrive or takes on a bodily form which can be trapped by
> the amulet and capable tomb raider/gymnast, Seth took what you would think
> would be the best option. After all, no mortal can stand up to a god and
> live to tell the tale.....
But Set isn't a mortal. Even when he was in Von Croy's body he was
pulling stunts that mortals can't.
Chloe Emmott
maybe she had an abortion when she was younger?
Otaku
maybe NO CHILDREN FOR LARA! =)
Cookiebear
What I meant was that now that Seth is a big towering monster thing, he's
going to find it hard to blend in. If he could change forms still why not
turn back into a plague of locusts and fly out or knock Lara back down? Or
possess her? However maybe its the later that has happened.
"Otaku" <swill...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B50477B...@home.com...
Womb Raider
<nos...@thisplace.org> wrote:
> After all, no mortal can stand up to a god and
> live to tell the tale.....
You need to read some Mythology. It's all about that.
WR
Womb Raider
<nos...@thisplace.org> wrote:
> We must start the fund raising immediately for WR's new brain. ;-)
> We can get a good deal on a used one from the Beijing organ transplant
> prison.
HA! Yeah, I'll pick up one in 2008.
WR
nick.mastroddi
for this.
Silver
"Womb Raider" <wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com> wrote in message
news:140720010106528554%wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com...
nick.mastroddi
Silver
"Otaku" <swill...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B50BB2B...@home.com...
Cookiebear
which would seem to be the thinking of every god that ends up with a sore
butt, or worse.
"Womb Raider" <wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com> wrote in message
news:150720010145252241%wombr...@macsrbetter2001.com...
Gary Mitchell
I thought this thread was supposed to be a group effort.
It's sure lonely at the top.
Besides, if you leave me to my own devices, I'll have
Lara running around with a daughter by Seth. And then
you'll have to bomb Core...and maybe me too along the
way. Oh, and don't forget to swing by Wombie's place,
he was encouraging me. :)
-- G
Gary Mitchell
Or Seth could make her clothes disappear slowly, in stages,
with the old classic stripper music.
-- G
Cookiebear
I think sheep might be better. Bah Baaah.
Cookiebear
organ transplants? Or China getting the Olympic games?
"nick.mastroddi" <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:T8b47.42390$B56.8...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Otaku
>
> "Mortal" was referring to Lara.
> What I meant was that now that Seth is a big towering monster thing, he's
> going to find it hard to blend in. If he could change forms still why not
> turn back into a plague of locusts and fly out or knock Lara back down? Or
> possess her? However maybe its the later that has happened.
Because the ankh that was designed by Horus to keep him trapped is
sitting on the only door out of that cave, and quite firmly in between
him and Lara. The idea that he's trapped in the statue is a good one
though.
Otaku
Once, just ONCE, I'd like to see the GOD win in one of these god vs
mortal stories. =)
Gary Mitchell
>
> In article <3B4EED00...@ix.nospam.netcom.com>, Gary Mitchell
> <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > How about Lara has to rescue her half-god daughter from the vengeful
> > > god persuing her?
> >
> > That would be Horus? (Later, when Horus gets out and
> > comes after Seth...and his offspring.) I think we're
> > getting closer to Lara's love-hate relationship with
> > her daughter that you wanted.
> >
>
> Yes exactly. I'm actually really interested in how Lara's character
> would act/react to her bastard daughter. The motherly instinct would
> have to kick in at some point and battle Lara's fear and distrust.
> Facinating I think.
I joked earlier with the Star Wars parody, but actually
the Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker thing works for me, or at
least something vaguely along those lines. It's not an
exact match.... Darth is Seth, the daughter is Luke,
Obi Wan is Lara...sort of.
OK, if we go with the motherly instinct angle, then Lara
would start out with this deal (saving her friends and the
world by agreeing to Seth's reproductive demands) thinking
Seth would take the kid and she'd be off on her own. But
the kid captures her heart when she finds that the daughter
(need to come up with name) doesn't seem to have any innate
evil instincts. Seth of course is intent on teaching the
kid "the ways of Seth," but Lara sees a chance to raise the
kid right and thereby gaining an ally (much like Luke against
Darth). She spirits off with the daughter. (The escape
needs work.) She doesn't tell anyone at first who the kid's
father is, but eventually confides in Jean-Yve (who would be
best qualified to advise and help plot).
So, now we have Seth searching for Lara & daughter (or do we
want a son?) and none too happy! There's got to be several
good levels or movie minutes right there.
Despite the kid growing faster than usual (being half god)
and showing supernatural ability, Lara's maternal instincts
come into full force. Later, junior is no longer so junior
and demonstrates a dark side. Will she/he turn out to be
evil after all or is it just youthful mischievousness?
Now Lara is getting worried it might be the former, all the
while Seth is closing in.
(I'm typing all this on the fly, as the ideas occur...maybe
I should think about it more.)
At some point, just as Seth appears ready to pounce, there is
this clap of thunder and Seth decomposes back into a horde of
locusts (as when entering the pyramid). Horus has forced his
way back (need to work on this) into his chamber at the bottom
of the pyramid, reclaiming his body from Seth and reclaiming
his amulet. Seth (the horde) rushes back to his sarcophagus
where his body still lay. He can re-animate it now that the
amulet is missing. (Why he didn't do that sooner? Needs work.
Maybe he was in the process, but had to rush over to deal with
Horus' return.)
So now Horus (with others?) heads out after Seth. Not thinking
to look in the barn after the horse got out, he doesn't realize
Seth is busy pulling himself up by the bootstraps, as it were.
But (by some means...needs work) he does find out about the
daughter. This would be the part where Lara has to decide
between "feeding" the kid to Horus or trying to save her...
(presumably, it would be the latter).
I think that's enough for now to pick to pieces.
> > Let's see, how does this happen... I know: When Seth was
> > getting her pregnant, he made all her clothes disappear.
> > By the way, are we going to have a sex scene too or does
> > Seth just go "zap" and she's got it?
>
> Firat off Seth tears her outfit to shreads as he tears it asunder from
> her glistening tight hardbody. I'm staring to sound like Bret Easton
> Ellison now...scary. So it's lost. Maybe lara has a spare outfit in her
> backpack but what's this...the backpack is gone! Now, what else is
> there to wear in a tomb? ;)
>
> About the sex scene. Hmm. Tricky. Rape is a sensitive topic like
> religion. But people talk about religion all the time.
Are we abandoning the idea about Lara agreeing to Seth in
order to spare the world?
And by the way, I think this spare-the-world deal needs
to be explored too. It could possibly make Seth turn out
to be a not such a bad guy after all...well, sort of. Or
maybe Horus' entrance would jeopardize the deal?
> I kinda go for hinted horrors myself. It's much more disturbing to only
> have a glimpse as to what happens, then the imagination takes over and
> creates something far more personal and horrifying than someone can
> show.
The unseen terror can be a good technique! After all, many
people are afraid of the dark, things that go bump in the
night, etc. But in this case, we already know pretty much
what's going on, don't we? Or were you thinking there's no
deal and Seth is simply takes advantage of an option that
he just noticed?
> Obviously this paradigm doesn't work with unimaginative people
> very well.
Now, now... be nice. :)
> I favor the confrontation, then cut to Lara getting up, shreads of
> clothes sliding off her as she wipes tears and grime away and grimaces
> in pain. Her back is scraped, blood mixing with sweat and dirt. Maybe
> she takes a few steps and falls to her knees clutching her groin. Looks
> back at where Seth was and puts a hand over her pre-heating oven.
I knew you had it in you! I'm not the only one that
should be writing this. Although it seems you're after a
darker version than what I had in mind.
> > If we keep going like this, we'll alienate almost everyone.
> > You realize that don't you? :)
> That's the story of my life. But it helps weed out the "uncool" people
> :)
But this will never see the light of day that way.
> My view is if you're going to write a story be true to the characters,
> history and world they inhabit. Never write for your audience, let your
> audience find you.
They said something like that about the original Star Trek.
Maybe we should campaign for more than one version. One that
would make Silver happy and then another, this darker adult
version.
> WR (ducks from the stonethrowers and moletov cocktails)
No, wait. You stand there for just a second...
-- G (runs back into the shadows while WR draws fire)
Gary Mitchell
>
> In article <MpH37.36340$B56.7...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
> nick.mastroddi <nick.ma...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > I frankly think the second idea is better, and more likely. ;-)
> >
> > Silver
> > > How about Lara has to rescue her half-god daughter from the vengeful
> > > god persuing her? What if various people she meets are inhabited by an
> > > angry god. Who can she trust? Maybe only her daughter can sense who's
> > > possesed so Lara uses her as a barometer, but she can't until she
> > > finds/rescues her.
> > >
> > > Or we could work on "Questing the Lost Hotpants" and have lara running
> > > around au natural until she finds her clothes.
> > >
> > > or both!
> > >
> > > WR
>
> Put Nick down as preferring both ideas fused together :)
>
> WR
She's violently opposed to any offspring ideas. Neither
of us may survive to give the former version to Core. :)
Also, there is a substantial segment interested in nude
raider... I guess we don't want to leave them out.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> You know, there's probably a Core person out there right now taking notes...
Let's hope so! It might mean WR and I get pushed down
your list. ;)
-- G
> Silver
>
> "Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3B4EFA1E...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
> > Womb Raider wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3B4D87E3...@ix.nospam.netcom.com>, Gary Mitchell
> > > <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > At first I was thinking Seth simply rapes her, but now
> > > > I'm toying with this: Seth gives her a choice: bear my
> > > > kid or watch your friends die and the world suffer
> > >
> > > That I like a great deal.
> >
> > We then have the situation of Seth making a contract.
> > Does he hold up his end of the bargain? Since he is a
> > god, maybe the agreement carries some sort of supernatural
> > power. Ultimately, that might be the key to his undoing,
> > especially if we don't get help from Horus. (Otaku, in a
> > previous message, made a pretty good point about Seth
> > closing off the heavens when he rushed in and took over
> > Horus' statue at the last second).
> >
> > > > Why? Well, with a son/daughter Seth could build a
> > > > power base that would overwhelm any other god, starting
> > > > with Horus. Lara reluctantly goes along to buy time to
> > > > work on Seth's demise and give the world a reprieve.
> > > > She makes the mistake of assuming Seth's offspring would
> > > > take years to grow, like a normal human. ;)
> > >
> > > Good!
> > >
> > > > We still have the problem of how to get Horus back. And
> > > > we'll soon have the problem of Seth and his son/daughter.
> > > > Or maybe Lara gets the kid to help battle Seth?
> > >
> > > See my previous post about using the kid as a barometer to weed out
> > > possessed people.
> >
> > I keep getting this mental image of Lara walking around with
> > the kid, holding him/her by the shoulders, pointing him/her
> > at people watching for his/her head to glow or something.
> >
> > > > Seth: Lara never told you about your father.
> > > > Lara Jr: She told me enough, that *you* killed him.
> > > > Seth: No. *I* am your father.
> > > > Lara Jr: No...That's impossible!
> > > > Seth: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
> > > > Lara Jr: NOOOOooooooo...
Gary Mitchell
Oh yeah, let's get the anti-abortion folks in on this too!
-- G
Gary Mitchell
Maybe I should be saving once in a while to floppy and send
them to several persons with instructions to forward to Core
should I disappear off the face of the Earth or come down
with a really bad case of death. After all, Silver has at
least one ally now (Otaku)...and how many more are out there
that are keeping quiet...ooooohhh. ;)
On the other hand, maybe all this will encourage them to
come up with their own alternate story line.
-- G
Gary Mitchell
>
> "Mortal" was referring to Lara.
> What I meant was that now that Seth is a big towering monster thing, he's
> going to find it hard to blend in. If he could change forms still why not
> turn back into a plague of locusts and fly out or knock Lara back down? Or
> possess her? However maybe its the later that has happened.
You may be on to something. Hmmm... Seth possess Lara...
Well, no... If Seth let's go of that Horus statue, wouldn't
Horus be free to come back?
-- G
Gary Mitchell
> >
> > How's that for a quick 'n dirty first try? :)
>
> Good! It all makes sense now I've finished TLR! :)
>
> -Mustang
OH, yeah. I forgot about that. I hope we haven't been
spoiling it for people who have yet to play or finish TR 4.
Well, anyway, read on! This thread gets a bit darker,
mostly thanks to WR's encouragement. (I have to make
someone share the heat.)
If you end up on the other side, you might want to
coordinate your bombing run with Silver (nick.mastroddi). ;)
-- G
Chloe Emmott
hey new idea : Lara is dead and she has to jounry thorugh the egpatin
underworld..
Chloe Emmott
wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com wrote on 15/7/01 11:46 am:
tom jone singing in the croner?
nick.mastroddi
going to have Lara's little bundle of joy in your efforts no matter what I
say just to annoy me anyway, so I just have to use that useful mental block
to censor those parts of the posts. Go on, show you care and write me
something that doesn't appear as a blank to my poor strained brain. ;-)
Silver
"Gary Mitchell" <wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3B5180A3...@ix.nospam.netcom.com...
nick.mastroddi
without that. Poor Lara.
Silver
Mustang
> Despite the kid growing faster than usual (being half god)
> and showing supernatural ability, Lara's maternal instincts
> come into full force. Later, junior is no longer so junior
> and demonstrates a dark side. Will she/he turn out to be
> evil after all or is it just youthful mischievousness?
Make it like Jedi Knight, where the game branches two ways, depending how
you play up to that point :)
For example: expose the child to any kind of violence and killing, and it
turns out to be good. However, let it see any nudity of any kind during the
game, and it instantly becomes sick and twisted. Morals and all, of course!
;)
-Mustang
nick.mastroddi
because I think I'm going to have a coronary. I'm actually not all that
fired up against the idea of her actually having a daughter (I still think
it bites, but...) it's just that I don't want future games to be only about
her daughter with good old Lara either good and dead or in some coma in a
sanitarium somewhere...
Silver
nick.mastroddi
actually have a seriously good idea, but it sounds a bit like The Mummy in
practice... oh well, unoriginality doesn't seem to be a problem ;-) I'll
come back with my great new idea.
Silver
nick.mastroddi
good idea has to involve sex and drugs and evil and the word which I will
not speak again. Work with it! I could have a go, but you'd probably lose
all respect for me ;-)
Silver
Mustang
> Maybe I should be saving once in a while to floppy and send
> them to several persons with instructions to forward to Core
> should I disappear off the face of the Earth or come down
> with a really bad case of death.
As oppose to a good case of death ;)
> After all, Silver has at
> least one ally now (Otaku)...and how many more are out there
> that are keeping quiet...ooooohhh. ;)
You're generating enough wild ideas on your own - you need no further
encouragement :D
-Mustang
Mustang
> > Good! It all makes sense now I've finished TLR! :)
> >
>
> spoiling it for people who have yet to play or finish TR 4.
>
> Well, anyway, read on! This thread gets a bit darker,
> mostly thanks to WR's encouragement. (I have to make
> someone share the heat.)
I've been reading it all since the beginning. But I read it again once I
finished TR4, because I didn't follow it before! I pretty much skimmed it
anyway, didn't want to spoil it for myself :)
> If you end up on the other side, you might want to
> coordinate your bombing run with Silver (nick.mastroddi). ;)
I am sitting on the fence, where I shall probably remain, lol.
-Mustang
Mustang
> You know, there is a hitch to suicide bombing - it only works once.
Not if you fail! :)
I'd like to see anyone actually do that though, LOL!
Otaku
Aw dang! The bomb musta fallen off at the gate!
Otaku
That's actually a very cool idea. I doubt if that's what they'll do,
but it would be a fooking great way to go, imo.
Womb Raider
<wb6...@ix.nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
I don't know how relevant this is but about 40% of the girls i've met
in college, dated or befriended have had abortions. it seems like de
rigueur for nearly half of all women. Some sort of closet secret
methinks.
I'm for the abortion sub-plot. This would further intensify Lara's love
for her half-god child. She'll be trying to make up for what she's done
and try to lavish twice the love on the child while feeling twice the
guilt.
WR