If you could change one aspect of TR

[Hotdog]

I was thinking the other day as I was tediously shooting all those wasps in
The Lost City of Tinnos that if I could change one thing about the TR games
it would be that the small creatures like the rats,spiders,bats,wasps etc
wouldn`t need 20 - 30 rounds of ammo to kill. If you took one of Laras
pistols in real life and shot a rat with it with just one bullet there
probably wouldn`t be much left of the poor bugger so why does it take such a
barrage to kill them in TR. It`s the same with all the human baddies as
well. I mean it`s a bit unrealistic when you blast one with both uzis and he
still comes at you. Fair enough with the mutants but I`ve always found the
unrealistic way that things are killed in these games annoying.

Hotdog

[Eep²]

If I could change one aspect of TR it would be most, if not all of the, things at http://tnlc.com/eep/tr/improve.html

But, yes, unrealistic enemies does make for an annoying game. I don't like TR's shooting in the first place and would rather have a strictle adventure/exploration game with traps and animals/people to evade (ala Thief) or befriend or play with. The befriendable monks in TR2 and the monkeys in India's jungle level in TR3 were a nice change from just blowing everything away, but TR as a whole could use more non-aggressive gameplay instead of all the testosterone-induced, immature, shoot-everything-that-moves mentality it mainly has. I tire of that limiting idea that's thoroughly abused in most of today's computer games. Hopefully TR4's more puzzle-oriented gameplay will be more intelligent but I'd like to see the computer 3D gaming industry as a whole cut down on all the violence and concentrate on more immersive, realistic environments that focus on curiousity, exploration, and intelligent gameplay. Enough with all the damn killing already!

[Hotdog]

I agree with you 100%

Hotdog

Eep² <e...@tnlc.com> wrote in message news:37C9651D...@tnlc.com...

[Tane]

Yes!

Imagine in, say, Tomb Raider X (not x-rated, but number 10), that things
have progressed so much that Core make a virtual World, where Lara can go
anywhere, do anything, and explore to her hearts content. You could fill
this world with a vast number of quests, each of which can be done in any
order, at any time. And the emphasis would be on Exploration, Puzzle
solving, and avoiding getting killed, as apose to mindlessly blasting
everything (and everyone) in sight. Yes, what a great idea...

Tane. Who finds himself drifting off into a 'future Tomb Raider' dream,
imagining seeing a 'real' tiger come creeping out from the jungle, and
instead of blasting that sucker to pieces, trying to avoid injuring it
because it's on the verge of extinction. Oh the bliss... oh shut up! OK.

Hotdog <hot...@wflg.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xpey3.4535$fl2....@nnrp4.clara.net...

[Hotdog]

I think if Core did that they wouldn`t need to make another game. ......Now
there`s a thought!

Hotdog

Tane <Ta...@sfish.NO_SPAMglobalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qc13b$nie$1...@gxsn.com...

[Joel]

I'd scrap the game engine write a whole new one! Those blocky environments
were acceptable in 1996, but graphics have come a long way. The Tomb Raider
engine is as old as the artifacts Lara's searching for, and the
"improvements" introduced in TR2 and 3 don't change that!

I'd build in a decent camera management system, so Lara couldn't disappear
behind sprite-based obstacles, and also so I could always see what she's
aiming her weapons at.

I'd put her in clothes appropriate for the 'adventuring' she does. Do you
really think she'd be wearing short-shorts in areas of the world infested
with stinging insects and poisonous snakes? There's no need to continue
flaunting her polygonal boobs and ass; if I wanna see some skin, I'd check
to hardporn.com, not Tomb Raider.

I'd create spin-off games based on the vehicles in the last couple of
titles. Lara Croft eXtreme Snowmobiling, for instance. The 4-wheelers,
powerboats, etc. are the best aspects of the game.

I'd stop forcing players to slaughter endangered species. I don't think a
true hero (or heroine) would kill gray wolves and Bengal tigers with such
abandon. I agree that there should be much less emphasis on violence in
general, but if it's gonna stay in, let Lara kill bad guys, not animals.

[Hotdog]

I agree with all you say apart from the "boobs and ass" Now come on, this is
Lara Croft we`re talking about. A cyber fantasy babe if you like. You can go
too far with realism you know....:-)

Hotdog

Joel <reply-to-...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:BPgy3.2844$r6.1...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...

[Joel]

Hotdog <hot...@wflg.clara.co.uk> wrote in message

news:QWhy3.4696$Ze2.1...@nnrp3.clara.net...

> I agree with all you say apart from the "boobs and ass" Now come on, this
is
> Lara Croft we`re talking about. A cyber fantasy babe if you like. You can
go
> too far with realism you know....:-)
>
> Hotdog

Fantasy, schmantasy! When I can get my mouth around a virtual nipple, I'll
be all for cyberbabes - but until then, my wife'll have to do.

Seriously, I guess I'm too technical to fantasize about a girl who's not
real. When I saw Lara in TR3, my first thought was 'Hey, her poly count has
gone up again. Her boobs aren't pointy at ALL anymore!' On the other hand, I
did enjoy seeing the "real" Lara Croft nude in Playboy!

[Scott Jelinek]

No doubt, who wants to play a game where Lara looks like the boss in Requiem. I
wish people would quit criticising Core Design to make Lara more politcally
correct, because they give in. Personally, I wish there was a move you could
make where the breasts flopped out of her outfits, they probably would in real
life.

** SCOTT **

[Hotdog]

HERE!! HERE!!! At last someone who doesn`t have a hang up about Lara`s
ample charms!!

Hotdog

Scott Jelinek <fire...@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:37C94DEC...@harborside.com...

[Noel Llopis]

fire...@harborside.com (Scott Jelinek) wrote in
<37C94DEC...@harborside.com>:

>No doubt, who wants to play a game where Lara looks like the boss in
Requiem. I
>wish people would quit criticising Core Design to make Lara more
politcally
>correct, because they give in. Personally, I wish there was a move
you could
>make where the breasts flopped out of her outfits, they probably would
in real
>life.

I don't mind Lara's attributes, but it gets really old when
*every* single female in computer games has breasts bigger than her
head.

I imagine it's a case of fairly immature developers aiming towards
a fairly immature audience.

--Noel

[Hotdog]

Can we please drop the subject about her boobs. That was not the content of
my original posting. Why is it whenever I post to this group it ends up on
that subject. It is getting boring.

Hotdog

Noel Llopis <llo...@home.com.xxx> wrote in message
news:8E31C8DC1327849032hjk432079@news...

[Gerry Quinn]

In article <37C94DEC...@harborside.com>, Scott Jelinek <fire...@harborside.com> wrote:
>No doubt, who wants to play a game where Lara looks like the boss in Requiem.
> I
>wish people would quit criticising Core Design to make Lara more politcally
>correct, because they give in. Personally, I wish there was a move you could
>make where the breasts flopped out of her outfits, they probably would in real
>life.
>

Good idea - and it should paralyse the bad guys for a second...

- Gerry Quinn
http://bindweed.com

[Krud]

Noel Llopis wrote in message <8E31C8DC1327849032hjk432079@news>...

>
>I don't mind Lara's attributes, but it gets really old when
>*every* single female in computer games has breasts bigger than her
>head.

Wow, wouldn't it be great if.......... ah, never mind.

-Krud

[Krud]

Hotdog wrote in message ...

>Can we please drop the subject about her boobs. That was not the
content of
>my original posting. Why is it whenever I post to this group it ends up
on
>that subject. It is getting boring.

What's wrong with boobs? I love boobs. Some of my best friends have
boobs. I think they should have a fake boob that's really a sub-machine
gun, like in Austin Powers.

-Krud

[Heidi]

Hotdog <hot...@wflg.clara.co.uk> kirjoitti
viestissä:QWhy3.4696$Ze2.1...@nnrp3.clara.net...

> I agree with all you say apart from the "boobs and ass" Now come on, this
is
> Lara Croft we`re talking about. A cyber fantasy babe if you like. You can
go
> too far with realism you know....:-)
>
> Hotdog
>

True, it´s Lara we´re talking about and I´m a woman, doesn´t bother me, so
what´s the big deal?

Heidi

[Tanel Kagan]

I may be on my own here, but I have to disagree. If you consider that the
game has to be more realistic, then surely Lara too should die with one
bullet, get tired after all that running, would have to stop and eat, take a
crap etc. would change her underwear once in a while and generally look a
bit worse for wear as the game goes on. Look at Lara as you nearly complete
a level. Make up is still perfect, not a hair out of place, no bruises, no
dirt, no blisters, no sweat and no tears on her clothing. Nothing slips out
of place and her straps don't chafe her skin.
She takes numerous beatings around the head without dying, can fall 30 feet
without breaking her legs, and performs impossible acrobatics.

Do we want realism?

[Bomber]

Tanel Kagan wrote in message <7qehg5$el9$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>Do we want realism?>

No. This is a game. And art. Art involves suspension of disbelief. The
whole thing is a fantasy, and that is what gives it atmosphere, makes it
alluring, and fun. The point in playing games is to remove yourself from
reality and challenge yourself in an unreal world where it is safe to jump
from high places, drive like a maniac, swim with the whales, attack and be
attacked, etc. etc. Even finding different ways of killing yourself is
amusing. If you prefer reality then you might want to fly virtual planes,
drive virtual cars, etc. where interracting with a real environment is
important. Lara's worlds are unreal.

[Hotdog]

Your taking the point way too far. What I meant was that it is annoying
having to shot a rat so many times. It`s not challenging or fun just an
irritation. The whole concept of TR is far from realistic but that`s the fun
isn`t it. But FUN is the key word to ALL computer games is it not or at
least it should be and the designers of TR and all other games would do well
to look up the word FUN in a dictionery once in a while!!!

Hotdog

Tanel Kagan <law...@kagan.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qehg5$el9$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...

[Bomber]

Hotdog wrote in message ...

<the designers of TR and all other games would do well to look up the word
FUN in a dictionery once in a while!!!>

Webster's Dictionary:
1 : what provides amusement or enjoyment; specifically : playful often
boisterous action or speech <full of fun>
2 : a mood for finding or making amusement <all in fun>

TR provides 1. You need to provide 2. Chill out.

[Hotdog]

I agreed with your message so why say I have to chill out?? Listen I`m
chilled man big time. Did you seriously look up a dictionery??
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hotdog

Bomber <mon...@monster.com> wrote in message
news:KSAy3.6554$2k6....@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...

[Eep²]

Tanel Kagan wrote:

> I may be on my own here, but I have to disagree. If you consider that the
> game has to be more realistic, then surely Lara too should die with one
> bullet, get tired after all that running, would have to stop and eat, take a
> crap etc. would change her underwear once in a while and generally look a
> bit worse for wear as the game goes on. Look at Lara as you nearly complete
> a level. Make up is still perfect, not a hair out of place, no bruises, no
> dirt, no blisters, no sweat and no tears on her clothing. Nothing slips out
> of place and her straps don't chafe her skin.
> She takes numerous beatings around the head without dying, can fall 30 feet
> without breaking her legs, and performs impossible acrobatics.
>
> Do we want realism?

I do. I'd probably have more fun "taking care of" Lara than having her blow away everything that moves anyway. Core could learn a few things from Maxis about simulation games...SimRaider, anyone? :)

[Eep²]

Note that what YOU consider fun may not be what everyone ELSE considers fun. I don't consider shooting something much fun anymore, especially since I've been doing it in computer games for years--it's gotten old and boring to me. I consider realistic simulations more fun because I can play around with something I normally couldn't in real life. 3D games DO try and mimmick reality to a certain degree otherwise they wouldn't even be 3D in the first place. 3D games are more realistic than 2D games which are more realistic than text games. TR has MANY realistic-looking environments but then something UNrealistic is thrown in which kills the immersion for me. I would rather have TR be only adventure, exploration, and simulation than shooting/killing.

Hotdog wrote:

> Your taking the point way too far. What I meant was that it is annoying
> having to shot a rat so many times. It`s not challenging or fun just an
> irritation. The whole concept of TR is far from realistic but that`s the fun
> isn`t it. But FUN is the key word to ALL computer games is it not or at

> least it should be and the designers of TR and all other games would do well

> to look up the word FUN in a dictionery once in a while!!!
>

> Tanel Kagan <law...@kagan.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7qehg5$el9$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...

[Eep²]

Um, you must not study much art much or you'd know that art can be EXTREMELY realistic as well as EXTREMELY fantastic and UNrealistic. Anything can be artistic.

[Jonathan Winkler]

Bomber wrote:

> Tanel Kagan wrote in message <7qehg5$el9$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> >Do we want realism?>
>
> No. This is a game. And art. Art involves suspension of disbelief. The
> whole thing is a fantasy, and that is what gives it atmosphere, makes it
> alluring, and fun. The point in playing games is to remove yourself from
> reality and challenge yourself in an unreal world where it is safe to jump
> from high places, drive like a maniac, swim with the whales, attack and be
> attacked, etc. etc. Even finding different ways of killing yourself is
> amusing. If you prefer reality then you might want to fly virtual planes,
> drive virtual cars, etc. where interracting with a real environment is
> important. Lara's worlds are unreal.

LOL at the use of "art" but most of what you say is true. TR's world is only
real in that it's believable enough for a player to immerse himself/herself
in. That's the only kind of realism it's ever needed.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------

.-. .---------------------------------. .-.
| | | Jonathan Winkler * | |
.-|-' | jonw...@concentric.net * .-|-'
| | | Digipen Institute of Technology * | |
'-' '********************************** '-'

"To be positive: to be mistaken at the top of one's voice."
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[ameg...@my-deja.com]

Exactly! It shouldn't take so much firepower to kill the enemies in TR.

One other thing I would change, before the endless firing of weapons,
would be the clipping issues (where you can see through the walls). I
have given it some thought and realized that heavy combat is standard
in gaming, but looking through the walls is another story.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Jay Markle]

To tell ya the God's honest, I don't sweat alot of the technical
glitches, but the gameplay itself has gotten exceedingly hard with each
chapter of TR.

TR1 was the first game I ever played in my new PSX, and I got through
the whole thing without looking at a walkthrough *once*, although I did
come here to get advice on some tough puzzles (remember the "flame
room"?).

TR2 was harder. Here I did consult a walkthrough every once in awhile,
but I still loved this game.

TR3 was impossible. The UK levels alone were stupifyingly hard. Also,
there is no dossier or mission statement like in "Syphon Filter" that
told you what exactly Lara was doing there, ad what she needed to get.
At least in TR1 and TR2 You knew why you were at a location, and what
you needed.

seeya

Jay

~*~*~*~*~*~
When visiting historic Burkittsville, Maryland, be sure to camp out in
the scenic Black Hills Forest, where the legendary BLAIR WITCH resides!

SEE Coffin Rock!

SEE the cabin of murderer Rustin Parr!!

Experience the legend of Elly Kedward, the Blair Witch HERSELF!!!

You'll have the time of your life.

***(For a limited time, free stick figure talismans for every happy
camper! Children admitted free!!!)

www.blairwitch.com/main.html

[Hotdog]

Exactly my thoughts my friend

Hotdog

Jay Markle <JayM...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18935-37C...@newsd-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

[snark^]

=>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Eep²
warbled on about "Re: If you could change one aspect of TR" in a.g.t <<=

> I do. I'd probably have more fun "taking care of" Lara than having her
> blow away everything that moves anyway. Core could learn a few things
> from Maxis about simulation games...SimRaider, anyone? :)

# LOADGAME: SIMRAIDER17_LAURA_2001.10.19

~Game Loaded. Performing status check.

~Danger Warning! Your little population of Lara's are dying out of sheer
boredom - you must provide more tombs for them to raid.

# BUILD TOMB

~You have created an empty tomb.

# ADD TIGERS, PANDAS, SOUTHERN RIGHT WHALE, HECTORS DOLPHIN, KAKAPO

~The endangered creatures have been added. [MORE?]

# ADD MAIN VILLAIN

~Your choices: [1] Dr. Mark Willard.
[2] Jaqueline Natla.
[3] Stellalune.
[4] Marco Bartoli.
[5] Bill Gates.

# 5

~Mr. Gates becomes the tomb's villain. The creatures you have populating it
suddenly die off from the restrictive trade practices he imposes. Your
multitudes of Laras easily win through the tomb and save the day.

~News Event! Alien Invasion in neighbouring DukeNukemLand! The Dukes ask
for your help?

# INVADE DUKENUKEMLAND: KILL ALL DUKES: BEFRIEND ALIENS

~It is done.

.... [snip] ....

--
I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing.

[Lauren]

Wow...You sure received alot of feedback from your "If you could change one
aspect of TR" post! I had a blast reading everyone's comments. There sure
seems to be alot of thoughtful, educated and articulate players out there...

"Let the games continue..."
Lauren

Hotdog <hot...@wflg.clara.co.uk> wrote in message

news:Csby3.4331$Ze2.1...@nnrp3.clara.net...

> I was thinking the other day as I was tediously shooting all those wasps
in
> The Lost City of Tinnos that if I could change one thing about the TR
games
> it would be that the small creatures like the rats,spiders,bats,wasps etc
> wouldn`t need 20 - 30 rounds of ammo to kill. If you took one of Laras
> pistols in real life and shot a rat with it with just one bullet there
> probably wouldn`t be much left of the poor bugger so why does it take such
a
> barrage to kill them in TR. It`s the same with all the human baddies as
> well. I mean it`s a bit unrealistic when you blast one with both uzis and
he
> still comes at you. Fair enough with the mutants but I`ve always found the
> unrealistic way that things are killed in these games annoying.
>

> Hotdog
>
>
>

[Hotdog]

Yep and "Tombers" are the best!!!

Hotdog

Lauren <lau...@quakeproofinc.com> wrote in message
news:37cd7f9d$0$17...@nntp1.ba.best.com...

[SlyRogue28]

They could have at least made the enemies believable. What the hell are
leopards doing in the Aleutian islands???