My SF philosophy
Wenchi Liao
yeah.....I go for intimidation/repeated annoying tactics character as well.
ST: Vega/Chun Li
SFA2: Birdie
MSH/XSF: Juggernaut
oh...I played at MIT during the summer. I had the Ryu killing Birdie. My
favorite tactic is to get a big lead, turtle up and jump into fireballs.
Bring
their hopes up of the "greatest comeback in history" and whack them with a
level three birdie hop. Heh heh.
damn your Sodom was good....
WL
In article <jbb-220197...@hannibal.mit.edu>, j...@mit.edu (Julien B
Beasley) wrote:
>My overall philosophy:
>A final word to those of you that pick Ryu or Ken as the first character
>you pick on SF3:
>YOU GUYS ARE PATHETIC LOSERS!!!
>
>-Julien
>
>--
>Stream polished pebbles SF2 Code v1.0: t+ c+ T+ r+(-) f g++
>In the mind's still garden pool m+ s+ v+ M+(-) n+:++ o+
Matt Taylor
Hey, very cool. Is this based on the philosophy sections from the A2
book? I would have asked all authors to contribute to this but there
wasn't enough room... we had to cut like 60 pages just to get it down
to 256, which was still long...do you think we should have all authors
do one of these in the future provided there's room?
-<Matt
Milo D. Cooper
Julien B Beasley wrote:
>
> My overall philosophy:
> I like to throw. My overall strategy has always been based on throws. On
> Super, I played T-Hawk. On ST, I played Vega and Balrog. On SFA2, I played
> Sodom. (SFA1 does not count as a real SF game in my opinion). All of these
> characters have good throws.
>
> Why do I like throws?
> Whenever a new SF game comes out, half the people pick Ryu and Ken right
> away. This pisses me off, as they have a total learning advantage over
> everyone else. So I pick a character that has a high damage unblockable
> and repeatable move, to beat those turtles into the ground. When the game
> first comes out, I try to do this repeatable tick to all those ryu and ken
> turtles. In SSF2, it was T-Hawk's repeat SPD tick. In ST, it was Vega's
> ambigous wall dive, and Balrog's walk under throw ticks. In SFA2, it was
> Sodom's stand forward, PB. With all of these moves, I can usually get over
> half an lifebar before my opponent gets out.
Julien, will you marry me?
--
/|_____Milo D. Cooper_____|\
\| mdco...@ix.netcom.com |/
Sean Gilley
I did the same thing with throws. When I moved down to Tennessee, no
one threw at all. Crowds of people/rednecks would stand behind me
chanting "cheap" "cheap" "cheap". But then I taught some friends how to
tick and eventually more and more people started to learn how to tick.
There's still people who yell cheap but not as many as there used to
be. The ones who yell "cheap" are usually the ones pumping in quarters
to the games.
Julien B Beasley
My overall philosophy:
I like to throw. My overall strategy has always been based on throws. On
Super, I played T-Hawk. On ST, I played Vega and Balrog. On SFA2, I played
Sodom. (SFA1 does not count as a real SF game in my opinion). All of these
characters have good throws.
Why do I like throws?
Whenever a new SF game comes out, half the people pick Ryu and Ken right
away. This pisses me off, as they have a total learning advantage over
everyone else. So I pick a character that has a high damage unblockable
and repeatable move, to beat those turtles into the ground. When the game
first comes out, I try to do this repeatable tick to all those ryu and ken
turtles. In SSF2, it was T-Hawk's repeat SPD tick. In ST, it was Vega's
ambigous wall dive, and Balrog's walk under throw ticks. In SFA2, it was
Sodom's stand forward, PB. With all of these moves, I can usually get over
half an lifebar before my opponent gets out.
As we all learn the newest SF game and get good at the game, my opponents
start to figure out ways of getting out of these moves, and they get
better at keeping me away because they know how dangerous it is if I get
my tick. I have to learn better ways to get in, and variations on my tick
patterns. Eventually, my local opponents and I know the fights very very
well.
Why do I like this kind of play? Hey, it's fun. I enjoy trying to get in
around my opponent's traps knowing that the reward is their death if I get
in. It's fun to watch they spaz and flail as they try to get out of my
repeat ticks. They can cry cheap or shake their heads... the more they do
this, the more fun I have. I like making them scared as I approach. Some
people like to play patient patterns that slowly tick away damage. Some
people like to turtle and win by blocking. All of this bores me. I want to
be ultra agressive. I want my opponent to feel that they are going to die
no matter what. I don't have fun playing careful patterns to slowly win.
Tournaments:
This philosophy helps me a lot in tournaments. Unlike some players, I
don't pick my character based on how good I think he will do in a
tournament. I just pick a character that I like and try to become the best
there is with him. Everybody knows how to fight against ryu and ken. Some
players are better than others, but the overall strategy remains the same.
So I am going to know how 90% of my tourament opponents play even though
they have no idea how I play. This is a huge advantage. Since my playing
style revolves around throws, I know my throw patterns very well. Since
hardly anybody plays like I do, my opponent will not know the intricacies
of my ticks. So if I am fighting someone I've never seen before, I just go
in for the brute force ticks. It took my opponents at home months to
figure out how to get out of these, so there is no way some guy at a
tournament is going to figure it out in a couple of minutes. If he does
try stuff to get out, I'm going to know what he's thinking and how to beat
it before he even tries it.
In chess tournaments, there are the people that try to know the regular
openings well, and there are the people that master one wacky opening but
know it better than anyone else. I'm the latter kind of person.
Zangief:
You might think after all of this that I would love Zangief. But I've
never liked Zangief because he is slow and his ticks are not repeatable.
In SSF2, Zangief's SPD did less sometimes than Chun Li's normal throw!
That's pathetic. Why play Zangief? Might as well play a fast character
that can do just as much damage plus repeat the ticks. With Zangief, you
work all day to get one SPD in, and then you end up across the screen from
your opponent. Another bad thing about Zangief is that everybody likes to
play him. So I don't ever feel unique in playing Zangief. I like to play
characters that no one else plays.
Cheapness:
I know that throwing is not liked in most arcades. It was not liked at MIT
either. In fact, when I first came to MIT I was a no-thrower because I had
been brainwashed into believing it was bad from all those years playing at
UC Berkeley (although I threw a lot in SF2 Classic). My freshman year of
college, me and a friend of mine named Rasheed Rankins decided we would
make MIT a place where it was ok to throw. I noticed that the reason
no-throwing was generally accepted was because of peer pressure. Some guy
in an arcade will throw, and 2 or 3 guys will mutter "fucking cheap". The
thrower is intimidated, and stops throwing. In time, he becomes a
no-thrower himself. This is in fact what had happened to me. So Rasheed
and I decided we would use peer pressure to make throwing ok. He would
stand behind me when I was playing. My opponent would cry "cheap" and look
to Rasheed for support, but Rasheed was on my side and would say "nice
throw". Using this tactic, we got more and more people to start throwing.
Now, every year there are a bunch of freshmen who come in to play SF and
who think throwing is cheap. I just laugh when they say it's cheap and do
nothing but throw them over and over again. They have no peer pressure to
support them, so they just have to take it. I have lots of fun just doing
NOTHING but throws and laughing at them until they finally get a clue and
start playing.
That's my overall philosophy of Street Fighter. Unfortunately, throws are
getting weaker and weaker. In SFA2, they are practically worthless because
of tech hits and CC's.
SF3:
Well I hope SF3 will go back to the way it was before the alpha series
when it comes to throws. I don't like the fact that SF3 only has 10
characters. This makes it unlikely that I will find a character that
nobody uses that has repeatable ticks. People keep telling me that I am
going to love Alex, but it seems like he's a very popular character
already. Also I hear he's slow, which sounds Zangief-ish to me. I do like
this idea of a dizzy super though. That seems like it has potential for my
kind of abuse.
I also like Dudley because I like his character and I'm hoping he's going
to be like Balrog: fast and deadly.
For some reason, I have this feeling that only these two characters are
going to be any good with throws. I hope I'm wrong though.
Zhimin Situ
i agree with all u said.
like i had said before, throwing is part of the game.
everytime when i heard someone yelling "cheap", i always wanted to kick
that asshole hell out of my face. what's 'cheap'? some guys always do a
fireball to make people jump, then do a dragon punch. it that 'cheap'?
when i make a throw to the guy, that asshole is yelling cheap...i just
play what i have to. guess u guys who yelling 'cheap' out there haven't
seen the real 'cheap'...
in ssf2 arcade.. zan can do a fab when ever he block a fireball or any
throw stuff,,, no matter how far the other is.
in sf2 arcade... guile can do an ass throw that can throws u no matter u
are in the air or standing or even still down on the ground..
in sf2 arcade.. guile and dhalsim can even restart the arcade!!! people do
this when they are about to lose...damn...
damm...have to go now...
willing to see anyone's reply...
\ / Zhimin Situ
O
j...@mit.edu (Julien B Beasley) wrote:
David Alexander S Dial
In article <5c6llh$q...@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Zhimin Situ <z.s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>i agree with all u said.
>like i had said before, throwing is part of the game.
>everytime when i heard someone yelling "cheap", i always wanted to kick
>that asshole hell out of my face.
Just keep throwing them. They usually get frustrated because they are
losing to a "no-skill" player, and they keep playing (a seldom occurrence
nowadays...).
>what's 'cheap'? some guys always do a
>fireball to make people jump, then do a dragon punch. it that 'cheap'?
>when i make a throw to the guy, that asshole is yelling cheap...i just
>play what i have to. guess u guys who yelling 'cheap' out there haven't
>seen the real 'cheap'...
Nothing is cheap except the price when speaking of SF. Even these have
liabilities:
>in ssf2 arcade.. zan can do a fab when ever he block a fireball or any
>throw stuff,,, no matter how far the other is.
Incorrect. They also have to be on the ground. The opponent may have time
to jump or DP depending on the distance. If they're up close, it's a
legit reversal anyway...
>in sf2 arcade... guile can do an ass throw that can throws u no matter u
>are in the air or standing or even still down on the ground..
As long as the first throw was close to him (close enough for Guiles
Standing Fierce Uppercut to come out). You cannot do the first Invisible
Throw from across the screen.
>in sf2 arcade.. guile and dhalsim can even restart the arcade!!! people do
>this when they are about to lose...damn...
They lose their money anyway...
David Alexander S. Dial
"Stop whining. If it's in the game, it's in the game."
Patrick
Milo D. Cooper wrote:
>
> Julien B Beasley wrote:
> >
> > My overall philosophy:
> > I like to throw. My overall strategy has always been based on throws. On
> > Super, I played T-Hawk. On ST, I played Vega and Balrog. On SFA2, I played
> > Sodom. (SFA1 does not count as a real SF game in my opinion). All of these
> > characters have good throws.
> >
> > Why do I like throws?
> > Whenever a new SF game comes out, half the people pick Ryu and Ken right
> > away. This pisses me off, as they have a total learning advantage over
> > everyone else. So I pick a character that has a high damage unblockable
> > and repeatable move, to beat those turtles into the ground. When the game
> > first comes out, I try to do this repeatable tick to all those ryu and ken
> > turtles. In SSF2, it was T-Hawk's repeat SPD tick. In ST, it was Vega's
> > ambigous wall dive, and Balrog's walk under throw ticks. In SFA2, it was
> > Sodom's stand forward, PB. With all of these moves, I can usually get over
> > half an lifebar before my opponent gets out.
>
So there ARE people who play SF like it should be after all!...
I knew about Julien already, but I thought you americans where all
chickening
when a good throwing-player would come in, and you'd all cry in a united
voice:
"CHEAP! He's using the dreaded secret deadly technique; he's throwing !"
:)
(Sorry about the cliche, but you're the one who made the KI-horror a
reality
after all...)
BUT I only read positive responses to Julien's post, so I guess you're a
few
real players left in the US.
Ok, sorry for all the bad talking,time for a politicaly correct
explanation:
Here (France), with the people I use to play, we never even THOUGHT
Throws
could be considered something unfair. Indeed, it might be hard to escape
some
good throw paterns, as the ones Julien puts in when he plays Bison, for
example,
but hey, that's the GAME! (I have very painfull memories of some fights
with
this guy. But remember, Julien my purple ken took 1 whole game from you!
yes! ONE WHOLE FIGHT! I'm proud of that! :)
In fact, if the person you're playing against is good enough to make you
enter
his partens, and you're not good enough to get out of it, then it simply
means
he's a better player than you are. And it's not because throw patterns
are less
common than FB traps that they can be called "cheap".
I really don't understand why some people started crying about this in
the first
place. The usual explanation is that throwing is "easy".
This is the LAMEST EXCUSE I ever heard in my whole LIFE (well, almost...
:)
Playing with a throwing pattern consistantly takes a lot of skill and
practice.
And it's rewarded so well in your region of the world only because most
self-clamed good players ("I can do a DP if you jump at me. More than
once
in a round.") don't know how to handle them.
Ok, they might be frustrating if you're really stuck in, but a good
Guile player
will frustrate you all the same coz you can't get close, and so will a
good Ryu
coz you'll be stuck in the FB trap, or a Ken coz... Just coz he make you
mad
beating the hell out of every piece of you!
And I could continue with every character in the game! (I'm talking
SSF2X)
So why calling throws cheap and not
Especially when softening takes off so much of the reward for risking a
throw...
Anti throw player, you've got no excuse... You're lame.
Just get up and FIGHT! Prove this little bastard that threw you to the
ground
you can defeat his poor and pathetic techniques, that he's worth nothing
and that
a good punch in the face is worth 10 time his ridiculous grappling
playing.
That's the only way you can play, if you want people to call you a good
player:
fight honestly, loose honestly, win... Well, if you winning, you can
have it the
way you want... :)
The result of all this complaining was the ridiculous throw range in SFA
1/2.
Happy with what you did?
You made the game a repetition of jumping, combos, jumping, combos,
jumping...
Ok, I'm a bit overdoing it, but you see the point. Throws are an
IMPORTANT part
of the SSF2X gameplay, and people are still saying it's the best SF
ever.
(BTW, I don't remember seing a good player complaining about throws to
the point
he'd want to make them useless. That's because good player can handle
throws,
and most find them another interesting technique...)
My only hope is that semi-throws, paries (throwing can't be parried!)
and stuff
like that will bring back serious throwing patterns into gameplay for
SF3...
Gosh, why am I always getting so long?? :)
--
"Cheers!"
Patrick. (be...@club-internet.fr)
Shaun P. McIsaac
My overall philosophy:
> I like to throw. My overall strategy has always been based on throws. On
> Super, I played T-Hawk. On ST, I played Vega and Balrog. On SFA2, I played
> Sodom. (SFA1 does not count as a real SF game in my opinion). All of these
> characters have good throws.
Clapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclap.
> Why do I like throws?
[snip] - hehheh... I didn't have to read on to geuss (though I did). The
look on someone's face as they get thrown again and again is, to say the
least, awesome.
> It's fun to watch they spaz and flail as they try to get out of my
> repeat ticks.
Unfortunately, it occasionally works :(
> They can cry cheap or shake their heads... the more they do
> this, the more fun I have.
:)
> Tournaments:
> [snip]
> It took my opponents at home months to
> figure out how to get out of these, so there is no way some guy at a
> tournament is going to figure it out in a couple of minutes. If he does
> try stuff to get out, I'm going to know what he's thinking and how to beat
> it before he even tries it.
I wouldn't go that far, but yes playing a throw offense vs. a non-throw
person (not necessarily a no-throw, just someone who doesn't go for _many_
throws) is a distinct advantage. That works for all (viable) styles of play.
When I can to UofC, Valle CCs were rarely expected/executed. I tried them,
and beat zvi/wenchi/others in a few matches where I had no business winning.
> Zangief:
> Another bad thing about Zangief is that everybody likes to
play Zangief?
I thought it was universally accepted that everyone plays AkuKenRyu :)
> Cheapness:
[snip]
> That's my overall philosophy of Street Fighter. Unfortunately, throws are
> getting weaker and weaker. In SFA2, they are practically worthless because
> of tech hits and CC's.
Reduced range and damage, too. Hehhehheh some of my favorite lines used
to refer to SF2 (any edition) are:
1) Back when throws did damage.
2) Back when blocking specials actually hurt you.
3) Back when attacking won the game.
4) Back when the DP didn't suck.
5) Back when skill was rewarded.
> SF3:
> Well I hope SF3 will go back to the way it was before the alpha series
> when it comes to throws.
YES YES YES!
[snip]
> A final word to those of you that pick Ryu or Ken as the first character
> you pick on SF3:
> YOU GUYS ARE PATHETIC LOSERS!!!
>
> -Julien
Chances are they'll be pathetic winners. Well, I'll just have to "Shaun
tackle" them ;)
Shaun
Zvi
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Shaun P. McIsaac wrote:
>
> I wouldn't go that far, but yes playing a throw offense vs. a non-throw
> person (not necessarily a no-throw, just someone who doesn't go for _many_
> throws) is a distinct advantage. That works for all (viable) styles of play.
> When I can to UofC, Valle CCs were rarely expected/executed. I tried them,
> and beat zvi/wenchi/others in a few matches where I had no business winning.
I must admit that a CC was used in many instances by shaun and the mere
surprise of it did work to his advantage. Unfortunately, shaun, you
must admit that though the CC's were not one trick ponys they did not work
for too long. I think this showed that the CC does have a place, but
only as a surprise attack or last resort when way behind. CC's are not
bad .....they just are not as great as many people believe.
Zvi
Kenichiro Tanaka
In article <32E70E...@ix.netcom.com>, mdco...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>[...]
> Julien, will you marry me?
You know, being in a relationship with another SF player woukld make
things a lot easier all around. Of course, there are only male SF players,
so this means you have to be gay. But the advantages are numerous. Let me
illustrate:
Gay (SFII) relationship:
"Have you seen my Street Fighter t-shirt?"
"I think it's in the wash. You can borrow mine."
"Cool."
Straight (non-SFII) relationship:
"Have you seen my Street Fighter t-shirt?"
"Your WHAT t-shirt?"
"...nevermind."
Gay relationship:
"Do you mind if I go to the SF tournament this weekend?"
"You mean you were gonna go without me?!"
"Well, I...um..."
"Let's go! You're driving!"
Straight relationship:
"Do you mind if I go to the...nevermind."
Gay relationship:
"You were just looking at Sakura's butt, weren't you?"
"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...oh god...*gasp.*"
"Heh. But that Ryu sure is cute."
"Scrub."
Straight relationship:
"You were just looking at Sakura's butt, weren't you?"
"No, I um..."
"Yes you were! Jeez, she's only 16, not to mention a videogame character!"
"Um, I...you know I love you."
"You're sleeping on the couch tonight."
Gay relationship:
"Where are you going?"
"I'm gonna pick up Puzzle Fighter."
"It's out? Cool!"
Straight relationship:
"Where are you going?"
"I'm gonna pick up Puzzle Fighter."
"You're going to pick up what-a-what?"
"It's a videogame."
"Oh.
[silence]
While you're out, can you pick up a box of tampons?"
It sounds tempting, doesn't it? Oh, except for the sex part.
And I'd have to stop wearing flannels (double standard: if I was a
lesbian, I'd be _required_ to wear flannels) and I can't dance worth shit.
But for those of you who enjoy coffee bars and 80s dance music still have
hope! Become gay right away and save youself years of frustration!
| Ken "If you only knew the power of the Dark Side" Tanaka -- tan...@maya.com |
| http://www.maya.com/Local/tanaka/ |
Shaun P. McIsaac
Wenchi Liao wrote:
> oh...I played at MIT during the summer. I had the Ryu killing Birdie. My
> favorite tactic is to get a big lead, turtle up and jump into fireballs.
> Bring
> their hopes up of the "greatest comeback in history" and whack them with a
> level three birdie hop. Heh heh.
That's not very nice. Extremely funny, but not nice;)
> WL
Shaun
DeezNutz
Funny shit, man. Where do you come up with it. Keep it rollin'.....
Ken Meredith
Slightly off-topic:
You know, there's always been an "unspoken bond" between Ryu and Ken...
I've seen the way they look at each other... ;)
BTW, Terrific post, as always.
Makes one consider turning gay... almost. :)
Ken "Sexually Ambiguous" Meredith
<umme...@cc.umanitoba.ca><xus...@freenet.mb.ca>
Check out my homepage at http://www.winnipeg.freenet.mb.ca/~xus561
or my Wild Cards Hockey page: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~ummered0/index.htm
Shaun P. McIsaac
Zvi wrote:
[snip]
>
> I must admit that a CC was used in many instances by shaun and the mere
> surprise of it did work to his advantage. Unfortunately, shaun, you
> must admit that though the CC's were not one trick ponys they did not work
> for too long. I think this showed that the CC does have a place, but
> only as a surprise attack or last resort when way behind. CC's are not
> bad .....they just are not as great as many people believe.
I made that arguement on this NG in fall quarter. MOST of the regular
posters didn't believe me, and to this day I'm sure many still believe that
CCs are the whole game. Undoubtably, someone new to CCs *will* be wiped by
them for at least a few days, but skilled competion will wise up, and learn
to defend against CCs.
Shaun
Zvi
On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, David Wright wrote:
>
> Ummm, what??? Use them to punish any mistake for huge damage, use
> them to escape tick, use them whenever they freaking stand up near you
> for free 30%+ damage? CC's ARE SFA2. Crap crap crap...
david, while it may be true that CC's can be used for many things....so
can most anything else be effective when you do not know how to play...
once you become aware of CC's they are usually too much of a risk for a
move that drains an alpha...and as for punishing a miskake.....there are
plenty of other ways that can do lots of damage...my favorite is called a
throw....i like another one that we call a combo. As for escaping a
tick..I like a throw myself....but then again an alpha is always nice....
plus an alpha always only drains 1 meter....cant say that bout a CC.
When you get good at the game you learn to do damage, yes, but you also
learn not to take risks....you speak of punishing mistakes with a CC...you
have a very good chance of being the person you is punished for a
mistake...
I must admit, though, some people have some great CC's to use with
frequency.....mainly adon, rolento, chun li.
ZVI
David Wright
Zvi <zdba...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Shaun P. McIsaac wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't go that far, but yes playing a throw offense vs. a non-throw
>> person (not necessarily a no-throw, just someone who doesn't go for _many_
>> throws) is a distinct advantage. That works for all (viable) styles of play.
>> When I can to UofC, Valle CCs were rarely expected/executed. I tried them,
>> and beat zvi/wenchi/others in a few matches where I had no business winning.
>I must admit that a CC was used in many instances by shaun and the mere
>surprise of it did work to his advantage. Unfortunately, shaun, you
>must admit that though the CC's were not one trick ponys they did not work
>for too long. I think this showed that the CC does have a place, but
>only as a surprise attack or last resort when way behind. CC's are not
>bad .....they just are not as great as many people believe.
>Zvi
Ummm, what??? Use them to punish any mistake for huge damage, use
them to escape tick, use them whenever they freaking stand up near you
for free 30%+ damage? CC's ARE SFA2. Crap crap crap...
David Wright
sf2f...@erols.com
SW White
Julien B Beasley (j...@mit.edu) wrote:
[snips]
: Whenever a new SF game comes out, half the people pick Ryu and Ken right
: away. This pisses me off, as they have a total learning advantage over
: everyone else. So I pick a character that has a high damage unblockable
: and repeatable move, to beat those turtles into the ground. When the game
: first comes out, I try to do this repeatable tick to all those ryu and ken
: turtles.
What is the difference between choosing an FB character and doing FB
patterns, and choosing some other character and doing repeated tick
patterns? Both rely on knowlege previous to that game, so there isn't much
difference, or learning advantage for either.
[another snip]
: Why do I like this kind of play? Hey, it's fun. I enjoy trying to get in
: around my opponent's traps knowing that the reward is their death if I get
: in. It's fun to watch they spaz and flail as they try to get out of my
: repeat ticks.
^_^ I like playing this way too.
Unfortunately, I am not very good at it...
[snip]
: Tournaments:
: This philosophy helps me a lot in tournaments.
[snip]
: Cheapness:
[snip]
: So Rasheed
: and I decided we would use peer pressure to make throwing ok. He would
: stand behind me when I was playing. My opponent would cry "cheap" and look
: to Rasheed for support, but Rasheed was on my side and would say "nice
: throw". Using this tactic, we got more and more people to start throwing.
Dammit, why can't I live over there! You guys have all the fun. I wish I
could find some decent competition around here that could teah me some new
stuff...
: A final word to those of you that pick Ryu or Ken as the first character
: you pick on SF3:
: YOU GUYS ARE PATHETIC LOSERS!!!
Amen to that...
Peace.
--
Stuart White
"Coming and going, life and death.
A thousand hamlets, a million houses.
Don't you get the point?
Moon in the water, blossom in the sky."
- Gizan
Geoff Price
In article <5cgb1t$a...@morgoth.sfu.ca>, cha...@sfu.ca (Brian Chan) wrote:
> Ken Meredith <umme...@CC.UManitoba.CA> writes:
>
> >You know, there's always been an "unspoken bond" between Ryu and Ken...
> >I've seen the way they look at each other... ;)
>
> I've seen several comics from Japan where the bond between Ryu and Ken
> was...um...not quite so unspoken.
Sounds like the Kirk and Spock erotica underground, where writers (mostly
female if I remember) developed an entire genre around the theme of the
unspoken but undeniable passion shared between these two great science
fiction icons. "It is, after all, only logical that the pleasure of the
many outweighs..." <duck>
--
Geoff Price
Ge...@CalibanMW.com
Brian Chan
Ken Meredith <umme...@CC.UManitoba.CA> writes:
>You know, there's always been an "unspoken bond" between Ryu and Ken...
>I've seen the way they look at each other... ;)
I've seen several comics from Japan where the bond between Ryu and Ken
was...um...not quite so unspoken.
Something tells me those comics won't be showing up in North America
in the near future...
PsychoKick
In article <5cgb1t$a...@morgoth.sfu.ca>, cha...@sfu.ca says...
>
>Ken Meredith <umme...@CC.UManitoba.CA> writes:
>
>>You know, there's always been an "unspoken bond" between Ryu and Ken...
>>I've seen the way they look at each other... ;)
>
>I've seen several comics from Japan where the bond between Ryu and Ken
>was...um...not quite so unspoken.
Ah yes, probably dojinshis (ie: fan-made comics). Japan has a
flourishing fan comics/parody comics industry (with real publishing houses and
so forth). Quite a few of them tend to warp the original storylines with rather
gratuitous sexual twists...
>Something tells me those comics won't be showing up in North America
>in the near future...
Not only for content, but also for copyright reasons. In Japan,
fan-made comics using the exact same characters aren't seen as infringing
copyrights (so long as it is made clear that it is not the "official" version),
whereas here you can get slapped with a lawsuit for just using the physical
likeness of a character.
--
-PsychoKick
--
"Creativity will not come out of happy lives,
but from people who become outcasts." -Toshio Okada
--
http://www.panix.com/~wyoon/
Still down for remodeling...
David Wright
>On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, David Wright wrote:
>>
>> Ummm, what??? Use them to punish any mistake for huge damage, use
>> them to escape tick, use them whenever they freaking stand up near you
>> for free 30%+ damage? CC's ARE SFA2. Crap crap crap...
>david, while it may be true that CC's can be used for many things....so
>can most anything else be effective when you do not know how to play...
>once you become aware of CC's they are usually too much of a risk for a
>move that drains an alpha...and as for punishing a miskake.....there are
>plenty of other ways that can do lots of damage...my favorite is called a
>throw....i like another one that we call a combo. As for escaping a
>tick..I like a throw myself....but then again an alpha is always nice....
>plus an alpha always only drains 1 meter....cant say that bout a CC.
Too much of a risk???? A throw does shit damage compared to even a
level 1 CC, and that not counting a tech throw. Anyone who simply
throws after a mistake is not doing something right. As for combos, a
CC is a combo. Lets put this in perspective.
I'm Ken with 1 meter. You whiff a dp
1) I throw for about 20%, less if you tech hit.
2) Do a standing forward 2 hit into a shoryureppa or shinryuken
(whichever takes off more, I forget, irrelevant anyways) for about 30%
damage at most.
3) Do a CC duck roundhourse, hurricane kick, deep feirce DP for 35-40
damage.
Throw is easiest to do, worst damage. Combo is medicore damage, and
the one most likely to mess up on. CC is mediocre in skill, and takes
off the most. Gee, which one will I do?
Escaping a Tick
Unless you're ken with the 25% AC, you can take off 20% for a non tech
hitted throw, or 35-40 with a level 1 CC. Gee, which do I want?
I believe to think that you don't quite realize that CC's take off WAY
too much life...
>When you get good at the game you learn to do damage, yes, but you also
>learn not to take risks....you speak of punishing mistakes with a CC...you
>have a very good chance of being the person you is punished for a
>mistake...
Say what?????? How to I make a mistake by slamming on three buttons,
tripping you, and juggling you for massive damage? Only someone who
isn't good will fuck up a CC, since they are easy as shit to do.
>I must admit, though, some people have some great CC's to use with
>frequency.....mainly adon, rolento, chun li.
A lot more than that. Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rolento, Adon, Rose, Zangief,
Akuma, Sagat, Dhalsim, Guy, and Gen all have CC's that I definately
don't want to get hit by. As for being good, I'm not the best, but I
have played some VERY good people and have realized that after playing
them that CC's do in fact ruin the game because they are the ultimate
weapon.
You ever use the Valle CC? You ever see your oppoent stand up within
sweep distance??? With CC's, even if you use the worst CCer, that's a
FREE 25% damage with just a level 1!!! They can't do ANYTHING about
it if they are standing up within sweep distance when you activate the
CC.
David Wright
sf2f...@erols.com
Zvi
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, David Wright wrote:
>
> Too much of a risk???? A throw does shit damage compared to even a
> level 1 CC, and that not counting a tech throw. Anyone who simply
> throws after a mistake is not doing something right. As for combos, a
> CC is a combo. Lets put this in perspective.
>
> I'm Ken with 1 meter. You whiff a dp
>
> 1) I throw for about 20%, less if you tech hit.
> 2) Do a standing forward 2 hit into a shoryureppa or shinryuken
> (whichever takes off more, I forget, irrelevant anyways) for about 30%
> damage at most.
> 3) Do a CC duck roundhourse, hurricane kick, deep feirce DP for 35-40
>
how about you do a fierce 2in1 into a fierce DP for about 30% and still
keep your super? Seems like a waste to use an aplha which can do 20%+ for
an extra 5% damage.....I will save my meter thank you very much
>
> Throw is easiest to do, worst damage. Combo is medicore damage, and
> the one most likely to mess up on. CC is mediocre in skill, and takes
> off the most. Gee, which one will I do?
If you mess up that combo then you suck...plain and simple...you SUCK.
hey yunno what I just realized...that combo will actually ADD to your
super meter!!!....just a little added bonus.
>
> Escaping a Tick
>
> Unless you're ken with the 25% AC, you can take off 20% for a non tech
> hitted throw, or 35-40 with a level 1 CC. Gee, which do I want?
>
If you try and escape a tick with a CC your success relies on the
stupidity of your opponent. If I was playing an idiot maybe that would
work. the alpha is a much more stable force...as is a throw.
>
>
> I believe to think that you don't quite realize that CC's take off WAY
> too much life...
>
I don't think you realize how much life I have taken off when people wiff
a CC.
>
>
> Say what?????? How to I make a mistake by slamming on three buttons,
> tripping you, and juggling you for massive damage? Only someone who
> isn't good will fuck up a CC, since they are easy as shit to do.
>
Easy to do...but when I just sit there and block em ?.....although i would
use you strategy with some people....mainly zangeif
>
>
> You ever use the Valle CC? You ever see your oppoent stand up within
> sweep distance??? With CC's, even if you use the worst CCer, that's a
> FREE 25% damage with just a level 1!!! They can't do ANYTHING about
> it if they are standing up within sweep distance when you activate the
> CC.
>
Why would I be standing up when i am in sweep range?
ZVI
Chocobo
Zvi wrote:
>
> Why would I be standing up when i am in sweep range?
I don't know. Why would you be getting thrown all across the screen?
David Wright
Zvi <zdba...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>how about you do a fierce 2in1 into a fierce DP for about 30% and still
>keep your super? Seems like a waste to use an aplha which can do 20%+ for
>an extra 5% damage.....I will save my meter thank you very much
Hmm, I assume you mean CC when you say alpha there. Anyways, I just
tested it...using equal damage settings we have
Throw - about 12-13%
Fierce into Fierce DP - about 25%
Level 1 CC (Duck Roundhourse, RH hurricane kick, fierce DP) - about
35%
This is course just for a level 1 CC. A level 3 Fierce, jab DP, jab
DP, jab DP, fierce DP on the same damage setting does 65% damage.
Gee, I think I'll blow my meter so I can take off more than 1/2 your
life.
> >
>> Throw is easiest to do, worst damage. Combo is medicore damage, and
>> the one most likely to mess up on. CC is mediocre in skill, and takes
>> off the most. Gee, which one will I do?
>If you mess up that combo then you suck...plain and simple...you SUCK.
>hey yunno what I just realized...that combo will actually ADD to your
>super meter!!!....just a little added bonus.
I can rebuttal with your little comment about messing up CC's...if you
mess up that CC, you suck. And remember I'm just comparing to level
one's. Level 2's and 3's are even more nasty.
>>
>> Escaping a Tick
>>
>> Unless you're ken with the 25% AC, you can take off 20% for a non tech
>> hitted throw, or 35-40 with a level 1 CC. Gee, which do I want?
>>
>If you try and escape a tick with a CC your success relies on the
>stupidity of your opponent. If I was playing an idiot maybe that would
>work. the alpha is a much more stable force...as is a throw.
WHAT???? This shows how little you know about the game engine. First
of all, the alpha counter is a measure to make sure that the tick
doesn't even get attempted, much like dping the first attack so they
don't even get the chance for the throw. Second your throws are more
stable than a CC is pure bullshit. I'm assuming you know aobut
counterthrowing, in that when the person tries to throw you right as
you come out of block stun (i.e. ticks you), you have a small window
where you get to throw them first, like getting up. During this small
time, you can also instead of doing a throw, do an invincible reversal
move like a DP. If you do it right, you'll get your reversal 1000
points, and stuff their tick attempt. Guess what, you can also do a
CC. And as far as which is harder towards or back and punch or 2
punch and a kick, I can't say which is harder. But with damage as
little as 35% and as high as 65%, one shouldn't pass up such an
oppurtunity. As a matter of fact, one cannot get out of some special
move ticks like Z's by throwing, so a reversal move of some kind is
needed, and the CC is about the easiest one to do.
>>
>> I believe to think that you don't quite realize that CC's take off WAY
>> too much life...
>>
>I don't think you realize how much life I have taken off when people wiff
>a CC.
No one good whiffs a CC like you claim.
>>
>> Say what?????? How to I make a mistake by slamming on three buttons,
>> tripping you, and juggling you for massive damage? Only someone who
>> isn't good will fuck up a CC, since they are easy as shit to do.
>>
>Easy to do...but when I just sit there and block em ?.....although i would
>use you strategy with some people....mainly zangeif
An idiot uses CC's when their opponent can block them. You activate
your CC's when they will hit.
>>
>> You ever use the Valle CC? You ever see your oppoent stand up within
>> sweep distance??? With CC's, even if you use the worst CCer, that's a
>> FREE 25% damage with just a level 1!!! They can't do ANYTHING about
>> it if they are standing up within sweep distance when you activate the
>> CC.
>>
>Why would I be standing up when i am in sweep range?
Lets see now, some people have certain moves like standing forwards,
shorts, etc. etc. that are really good ground moves for poking or
countering attacks. There is also the "blow out" thing where if
you're throwing out an attack or not blocking when close enough to the
activation of a cc, you'll go into a hit stun frame of animation, and
that is also a free CC for me.
Of course there are not the only uses for CC's. You can use CC's to
go through fireballs for mucho damage. You can use jump CC's to go
through anti air moves for mucho damage. Basically the CC is an all
purpose tool that you have not realized the potential for. Because of
the extreme usefullness and the fact that most do sickening amounts of
damage that makes them SO deadly in this game. I hope you can at
least agree with me in that if you're certain characters and you mess
up ONCE and they have a level 3 they take off 90-100% that's bullshit.
Or you happen to stand up and they take off at least 60%. It seems
you like to play conservative, hang back, play defensive, monitor your
meter for ac use, but frankly, opputunity to take off horrendous
amounts of damage by slamming on 3 buttons come up way too often in a
match. And if you don't think they come up often enough, you aren't
looking hard enough.
David Wright
sf2f...@erols.com
Shaun P. McIsaac
David Wright wrote:
> You ever use the Valle CC? You ever see your oppoent stand up within
> sweep distance??? With CC's, even if you use the worst CCer, that's a
> FREE 25% damage with just a level 1!!! They can't do ANYTHING about
> it if they are standing up within sweep distance when you activate the
> CC.
WRONG. With many characters (the shotokans, M. Bison, Birdie, Guy,
and others) you CAN get out of the CC's path. The shotokans DP
(preferably super DP) out of it, and M. Bison, Birdie, and Guy can SC
out of it. Hell, you can probably counter CC with some people.
SPM
Shaun P. McIsaac
David Wright wrote:
>
> Zvi <zdba...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> >how about you do a fierce 2in1 into a fierce DP for about 30% and still
> >keep your super? Seems like a waste to use an aplha which can do 20%+ for
> >an extra 5% damage.....I will save my meter thank you very much
>
> Hmm, I assume you mean CC when you say alpha there. Anyways, I just
> tested it...using equal damage settings we have
> Throw - about 12-13%
> Fierce into Fierce DP - about 25%
> Level 1 CC (Duck Roundhourse, RH hurricane kick, fierce DP) - about
> 35%
But Fierce-FierceDP gives/saves you meter, and allows you to alpha for
an additional 17%.
> This is course just for a level 1 CC. A level 3 Fierce, jab DP, jab
> DP, jab DP, fierce DP on the same damage setting does 65% damage.
> Gee, I think I'll blow my meter so I can take off more than 1/2 your
> life.
Alpha x3 = 51%, which is less, but has less risk.
> As a matter of fact, one cannot get out of some special
> move ticks like Z's by throwing, so a reversal move of some kind is
> needed, and the CC is about the easiest one to do.
Tapping jab works against Birdie, and usually against Z., too. Have to
check this one tho.
> Lets see now, some people have certain moves like standing forwards,
> shorts, etc. etc. that are really good ground moves for poking or
> countering attacks.
That's great, except that many of those moves stuff the CC.
> Of course there are not the only uses for CC's.
[snip]
> And if you don't think they come up often enough, you aren't
> looking hard enough.
Sure, if the competion's light.
SPM
David Wright
>David Wright wrote:
>SPM
Okay, oversight on my part. They can do a reversal type move....but
even you have to admit that the timing on that is hard enough where no
one is gonna get it consistenly. As for CCing a CC, you gotta make
sure your first move is a lot faster than theirs, or has more
priority, or both, but yes, this would work too.
I'm also going to reply to comments made on your earlier post on this
one.
Jabbing out of Z's ticks - If the ticks are done right, you can't.
You must reversal out of em.
Alpha Countering 3x for 51 damage or CC for 65 damage. I think that
extra 14-15% a lot of times could easily mean the difference between
winning and losing. It also depends on your character. Some
characters are worthless without a meter, some it doesn't matter as
much. Also the 3x alpha counter means you need to hit them in 3
instances. This means 3 mistakes or 3 sticking out limbs. With the
CC, you only have to be a CC target ONCE.
I dont know about you, but for many, there's also a psychological
aspect to CCing them. For making one small mistake or being open to a
CC just once, you lose well over 1/2 your life. Granted most of the
time people can keep their cool, but a lot of time the person's game
will change slightly because of the huge loss of life. They might get
more defensive, they might get more offensive, depending on how they
react.
Basically I think it all comes down to damage. You do more damage
when you CC, period. A lot of the time level 3 CC's mean then end of
the match. Think about this.....a level 3 ken CC takes of 65%. How
often do you see someone get a custom while their opponent is at full
life? Not that often. I see it more in the middle of the match,
after they've lost say, 20-40% of their life. It's already almost
over or over then. There are times to AC yes, I'll agree with that
100%. But if the oppurtunity calls for a CC and your character has
one that can do decent damage, it should be obvious to use it.
David Wright
sf2f...@erols.com
CreeD
Chocobo <cho...@concentric.net> blurted..:
>Zvi wrote:
>>
>> Why would I be standing up when i am in sweep range?
>I don't know. Why would you be getting thrown all across the screen?
Someone asked Alex Valle when he likes to go for a CC.
"any time I think they're going to move".
You'd be standing up within sweep range because you can't go anywhere
without standing up first. Which means no retreating/blocking high,
and no walk forward throws or pokes.
/------------------/
| sig in a box. |
/------------------/
Standard blathering.
"Standard" -Quote
Stan...@email.address
CreeD@home :)
-Me...@clinic.net-
Shaun P. McIsaac
David Wright wrote:
> I'm also going to reply to comments made on your earlier post on this
> one.
> Basically I think it all comes down to damage.
Well, not really...
Was Ken the #1 character in SF2 because of the Touch of Death? Your
opponent only needed to make a single mistake (For example, throwing a
fireball to start the round would do it.). Quite a few of the regulars
here would dispute that with you.
> You do more damage when you CC, period.
Indeed, you do a lot of damage, more so than a combo or a throw.
> A lot of the time level 3 CC's mean then end of
> the match.
See ToD comment.
> But if the oppurtunity calls for a CC and your character has
> one that can do decent damage, it should be obvious to use it.
True, but I still don't think that they're the horror that everyone says
they are. If they were, then Rose and Zangief would be #1 and #2, and
M. Bison would be destroyed by every character. In reality, Rose and
Zangief are both good, and M. Bison has few characters that can truly
destroy him. There's no "Bison killer" in the same way that there is
Zangief killer (Chun Li).
SPM
xd...@hotmail.com
>the Xmen games are, but don't take it so seriously. People who cheap me just get cheaped back, but by that time I've already won
>And as to restarting the machine, people don't do that where I play or they get a kicked in the head for real..
--
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