I'm curious as to what people perceive as the top tier and bottom tier of MvC2. If you can, please respond with your top 14 and bottom 14 characters. If you want to, put them in some order, and if you're feeling extremely gung-ho, rank all 56.
On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Will Beckley wrote: > I'm curious as to what people perceive as the top tier and bottom tier of > MvC2. If you can, please respond with your top 14 and bottom 14 characters. > If you want to, put them in some order, and if you're feeling extremely > gung-ho, rank all 56.
> Thanks,
> Will
Let me try ranking these boys/gals/animals, I might be biased on middle tiers...either they don't have good tourney performances or have not been exposed, and keep in mind that mvc2 is a team game, so some team combinations can just be overpowered
"Will Beckley" <WBeck...@Mindspring.com> wrote: >I'm curious as to what people perceive as the top tier and bottom tier of >MvC2. If you can, please respond with your top 14 and bottom 14 characters. >If you want to, put them in some order, and if you're feeling extremely >gung-ho, rank all 56.
You just missed a 200 post long thread on this which is just now petering out. Check it out in Deja for all the rankings talk you could ever want.
Matt mgreer[at]artic.edu
"And if your dog or cat ever dies, I'll buy you a ewe."
On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, sol t kim wrote: > In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008011937180.29317-100...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>, > ParanoiaDirtyMix! <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: > >On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Will Beckley wrote:
> Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable?
Play like a Japanse and runaway forever
> Sentinel is below Cable
Sentinel loses to cable but it doesn't mean Sentinel is worse than Cable...Just like in ST Blanka beats Guile, doesn't make Blanka better than Guile in general
Jack, I only took a quick glance at your rankings, so I'm not going to comment on that for the most part..since they're somewhat right...but why is Magneto is Tier 3? He should be in the top of tier 2, if not Tier 1 even.
For the most part tho, your rankings are good - however, I think there will be a lot of debate over the middle tier, since there are so many chars. However, it's a start...
>Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable?
No way in hell Dhalsim dominates a match like Cable, Doom, Sentinel. Where is his helper kill? Standing fierce?
>>Tier 2 >>Cyclops >>Cammy >>Iceman >>Captain Commando >>BBHood >>Ironman >>Power-up Juggeranut >>Silver Samurai >Power up Jug should at least be at the top of this list.
BBH, IM, and SS are not that good (esp. BBH). Why would you want SS when you can play Spiral? What does BBH add to a team strategically?
>>Tier 3 >>Omega Red >>Magneto >>Bison >>Ken >>Tron >>Psylocke >>Felicia >>Colossus >Ken should not be above Ryu...Ryu at least can hurt helpers.
Ken's assist is a helluva lot better. The fact that he does more damage and that his supers do not get him murdered if *hit* is good too.
Guile is better than Charlie, and Anakaris is better than these guys.
>>Tier 5 >>Guile >>Tier 6 >>Tier 7
Sonson is bottom tier. No damage.
>>Thanos - Still not sure how to play him, but I see him have some potential >Like a pixie, AFAIK
Thanos? He's neither small nor particularly great at combos except for his infinite and supers. At least he can super out of a lot of things. -- Shaun P. McIsaac (508) 761 - 4722 People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: > In article <1IKh5.126$x3.2951@uchinews>, > sol t kim <solt...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: > >In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008011937180.29317-100...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>, > >ParanoiaDirtyMix! <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: > >>On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Will Beckley wrote: > >>Tier 1 > >>Doom > >>Spiral > >>Sentinel > >>Dhalsim > >>Cable > >>Storm > >>Strider > >>Blackheart
> >Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable?
> No way in hell Dhalsim dominates a match like Cable, Doom, Sentinel. > Where is his helper kill? Standing fierce?
Sim is not born to kill helper or do nasty damage...he does have big-damage combos which is HARD....the reason why he dominates is because of his runaway skill, and he teleports....which automatically rocks cable
> >>Tier 2 > >>Cyclops > >>Cammy > >>Iceman > >>Captain Commando > >>BBHood > >>Ironman > >>Power-up Juggeranut > >>Silver Samurai > >Power up Jug should at least be at the top of this list.
> BBH, IM, and SS are not that good (esp. BBH). Why would you want SS when > you can play Spiral? What does BBH add to a team strategically?
BBH does runaway work and triple super work IM should be a flying whore, just watch out blackheart and commando So you say Spiral is better than SS, which is true, which is why SS ranks lower than Spiral. Spiral chips on field and SS chips as a helper
> >>Tier 3 > >>Omega Red > >>Magneto > >>Bison > >>Ken > >>Tron > >>Psylocke > >>Felicia > >>Colossus > >Ken should not be above Ryu...Ryu at least can hurt helpers.
> Ken's assist is a helluva lot better. The fact that he does more damage > and that his supers do not get him murdered if *hit* is good too.
No one believes that Jill owns all pixies. Oh well. I'd swap BH and Cyc..some other stuff..no one cares though. Megaman stops Doom/BH and lots of other shit just because you can't call a helper without first stopping his megabusters, and that's not as easy as you'd think against a good MM. The busters do like 15% damage now too..it's nasty. Rockball trap is ass. He goes in AT LEAST 3rd or lower second. Bonerine is 4th at least also. Spiderman in no way deserves to be 7th tier. If I land a jab in my endless chaining you're losing 50% to a max. spider SOMEWHERE. You've just never seen him used effectively. He still can't deal with keepaway, but no one else in 3rd tier can and thats probably where I'd put him. No lower than 4th though. Everything else is close enough.
Lupid wrote: > No one believes that Jill owns all pixies. Oh well. I'd swap BH > and Cyc..some other stuff..no one cares though. Megaman stops > Doom/BH and lots of other shit just because you can't call a > helper without first stopping his megabusters, and that's not as > easy as you'd think against a good MM. The busters do like 15% > damage now too..it's nasty.
What is up with his mega buster assist stopping a hyper charging star? Seems like there was something else that stopped my hyper charging star and for awhile I thought they made it just totally weak, but it still goes through some stuff. I used to love charing through a legion or standing fast through a proton cannon (although the PC is a little longer IIRC). Is there anything else the charging star can't beat anymore?
Arturo Sanchez wrote: > Jack, I only took a quick glance at your rankings, so I'm not going to > comment on that for the most part..since they're somewhat right...but why > is Magneto is Tier 3? He should be in the top of tier 2, if not Tier 1 > even.
Why do you believe that? I hope you're not counting his ability to do 100% in one (escapable) air combo. Without that, he's simply above average.
John Syers <jsy...@acm.org> wrote: >What is up with his mega buster assist stopping a hyper
charging star?
Are you sure you had your shield during that HCS? If Cap is without his shield then charging star will not negate projectiles and HCS will not negate beams/projectiles/supers.
Matt mgreer[at]artic.edu
"And if your dog or cat ever dies, I'll buy you a ewe."
JackTheFob <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: >> In article <1IKh5.126$x3.2951@uchinews>, >> sol t kim <solt...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: >> >>Tier 1 >> >>Doom >> >>Spiral >> >>Sentinel >> >>Dhalsim >> >>Cable >> >>Storm >> >>Strider >> >>Blackheart
>> >Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable? >> No way in hell Dhalsim dominates a match like Cable, Doom, Sentinel. >> Where is his helper kill? Standing fierce? >Sim is not born to kill helper or do nasty damage...he does have >big-damage combos which is HARD....the reason why he dominates is because >of his runaway skill, and he teleports....which automatically rocks cable
Bison teleports too, are you going to tell me he beats Cable? Dhalsim's runaway is not any good. What are you going to run away *with*? He has no way to chip safely and no big combo off his long attacks.
>> BBH, IM, and SS are not that good (esp. BBH). Why would you want SS when >> you can play Spiral? What does BBH add to a team strategically?
>BBH does runaway work and triple super work.
Her TT is overrated and her ability to keep away with missiles is about as good as megaman's fierce.
>IM should be a flying whore, just watch out blackheart and commando.
..and Ken, and Cammy, and a lot of others. I play IM. He's a fun charcters. While raining down garbage is his best tech, he's not able to do it like Doom and be so controlling with it. SB is slow enough to let them break away from any trapping you might have been thinking of; UB is good but a slow enough to allow a reaction from a good player. This is a serious problem as you can't get into a situation where you're trading a few hits for a few blocked beams - you'll lmost always lose.
>So you say Spiral is better than SS, which is true, which is why SS ranks >lower than Spiral. Spiral chips on field and SS chips as a helper
Samurai chips ok as help but IMO is not great (Spiral's alpha is about as good). I just don't see him as better than Magneto, for instance, or on par with Juggernaut.
>> >>Tier 3 >> >>Tier 4 >> Guile is better than Charlie, and Anakaris is better than these guys.
>Guile is better than charlie in low-level comp, Charlie can be a cross-up >whore.
Why is Charlie landing crossups vs anyone but low level comp? Guile wins on better supers and damage, a better air flashkick, and his air throw which will occasionally catch someone sleeping for a single extra pop-up w/o damage reduction.
>Well I said I am biased coz i haven't mastered all 56 yet....so there are >something i don't know about Anakaris
KapKom would know better than I, but he does have ground chains->super that do over 1/2 life and the coffins which are pretty good. -- Shaun P. McIsaac (508) 761 - 4722 People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: > In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008020026140.6576-100...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>, > JackTheFob <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: > >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: > >> In article <1IKh5.126$x3.2951@uchinews>, > >> sol t kim <solt...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: > >> >>Tier 1 > >> >>Doom > >> >>Spiral > >> >>Sentinel > >> >>Dhalsim > >> >>Cable > >> >>Storm > >> >>Strider > >> >>Blackheart
> >> >Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable? > >> No way in hell Dhalsim dominates a match like Cable, Doom, Sentinel. > >> Where is his helper kill? Standing fierce? > >Sim is not born to kill helper or do nasty damage...he does have > >big-damage combos which is HARD....the reason why he dominates is because > >of his runaway skill, and he teleports....which automatically rocks cable
> Bison teleports too, are you going to tell me he beats Cable? > Dhalsim's runaway is not any good. What are you going to run away *with*? > He has no way to chip safely and no big combo off his long attacks.
Bison's teleport, as lame as psylocke's, is WEAK....different story from sim's
Sim has no chip pontential but doom does.....so include floating on your runaway loop, call doom during floating, then air dash or teleport...when time's running out even experts should get some nervous coz they are still human beings...then just doom more
> >> BBH, IM, and SS are not that good (esp. BBH). Why would you want SS when > >> you can play Spiral? What does BBH add to a team strategically?
> >BBH does runaway work and triple super work.
> Her TT is overrated and her ability to keep away with missiles is > about as good as megaman's fierce.
> >IM should be a flying whore, just watch out blackheart and commando.
> ..and Ken, and Cammy, and a lot of others. I play IM. He's a fun > charcters. While raining down garbage is his best tech, he's not able to > do it like Doom and be so controlling with it. SB is slow enough to let > them break away from any trapping you might have been thinking of; UB is > good but a slow enough to allow a reaction from a good player. This is a > serious problem as you can't get into a situation where you're trading a > few hits for a few blocked beams - you'll lmost always lose.
> >So you say Spiral is better than SS, which is true, which is why SS ranks > >lower than Spiral. Spiral chips on field and SS chips as a helper
> Samurai chips ok as help but IMO is not great (Spiral's alpha is about as > good). I just don't see him as better than Magneto, for instance, or on > par with Juggernaut.
Juggernaut is a scary one dimensional character based on his damage and headcrush, but dies to too many flying characters.
If Japan says SS is good, SS is good....what's the last time Japan made a lame ranking?
> >> >>Tier 3 > >> >>Tier 4 > >> Guile is better than Charlie, and Anakaris is better than these guys.
> >Guile is better than charlie in low-level comp, Charlie can be a cross-up > >whore.
> Why is Charlie landing crossups vs anyone but low level comp? > Guile wins on better supers and damage, a better air flashkick, and his > air throw which will occasionally catch someone sleeping for a single > extra pop-up w/o damage reduction.
In low level comp, where ppl don't block every time, you look for someone who deals good damage and longer combos. In high comp, the better pixies are those who can find open holes most often. Charlie opens holes easier than Guile, while Guile does more damage IF he finds a hole.
Charlie has air throw too, and in high comp you can see air throw from miles away and tech all the time.
: On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
: > In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008020026140.6576-100...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>, : > JackTheFob <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: : > >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: : > >> In article <1IKh5.126$x3.2951@uchinews>, : > >> sol t kim <solt...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: : > >> >>Tier 1 : > >> >>Doom : > >> >>Spiral : > >> >>Sentinel : > >> >>Dhalsim : > >> >>Cable : > >> >>Storm : > >> >>Strider : > >> >>Blackheart : > >> > : > >> >Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable? : > >> No way in hell Dhalsim dominates a match like Cable, Doom, Sentinel. : > >> Where is his helper kill? Standing fierce? : > >Sim is not born to kill helper or do nasty damage...he does have : > >big-damage combos which is HARD....the reason why he dominates is because : > >of his runaway skill, and he teleports....which automatically rocks cable : > : > Bison teleports too, are you going to tell me he beats Cable? : > Dhalsim's runaway is not any good. What are you going to run away *with*? : > He has no way to chip safely and no big combo off his long attacks.
: Bison's teleport, as lame as psylocke's, is WEAK....different story from : sim's
: Sim has no chip pontential but doom does.....so include floating on your : runaway loop, call doom during floating, then air dash or teleport...when : time's running out even experts should get some nervous coz they are still : human beings...then just doom more
Leaves Doom extremely vulnerable. My dhalsim is ok, but I don't rely on teleport at all. It's all about his s. short, priority and reach wise. He has the ability to punish assists using his short 3-hit ground chains repeatedly... it forces your opponent to block while his assist is getting hit. That's actually key if you're talking about assist counter-attacking. Teleport is way slow and his keepaway is very limited. I highly doubt the japanese play him with keepaway... he does very well on the offense.
A runaway Dhalsim would get crushed by Cable, .. his keepaway simply isn't at that level.
: : > >> BBH, IM, and SS are not that good (esp. BBH). Why would you want SS when : > >> you can play Spiral? What does BBH add to a team strategically? : > > : > >BBH does runaway work and triple super work. : > : > Her TT is overrated and her ability to keep away with missiles is : > about as good as megaman's fierce. : >
There's a good BBH that plays downtown and at Goodtimes in Boston. Cruel hunting and her mines/missles are most of her game. She can do a s. roundhouse, db+roundhouse XX missle and that leaves plenty of crap for the opponent to deal with along with her assist attacking at the same time. Her mines stop dash-ins. But from how I've seen BBH played well, her Cruel hunting is really effective (particularly against those who use b-cyclops without regard). Damage/coverage/chip-wise, it's better than a lot of the other heavy damage "beam" attacks in the game (PC, MOB, etc.).
: > : > Samurai chips ok as help but IMO is not great (Spiral's alpha is about as : > good). I just don't see him as better than Magneto, for instance, or on : > par with Juggernaut.
He takes away a good portion of Strider/Spiral's game (teleport), and qcf+kk also destroys Juggernaut/Doom assist. It takes way too much damage if you get nailed up close. He's got a chipping game, too, but I think the main threat he poses to top tier is assist abuse and teleporting. There's a safe pocket in the qcf+kk that keeps a flying sentinel safe, but most other aerial attacks have to be done with caution.
: Juggernaut is a scary one dimensional character based on his damage and : headcrush, but dies to too many flying characters.
The japanese ranked Spider-Man tops for some strange reason in MvC1... Either we never figured it out right or they don't know what they're talking about.
> JackTheFob (jack...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote: > : On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> : > In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008020026140.6576-100...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>, > : > JackTheFob <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: > : > >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: > : > >> In article <1IKh5.126$x3.2951@uchinews>, > : > >> sol t kim <solt...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote: > : > >> >>Tier 1 > : > >> >>Doom > : > >> >>Spiral > : > >> >>Sentinel > : > >> >>Dhalsim > : > >> >>Cable > : > >> >>Storm > : > >> >>Strider > : > >> >>Blackheart > : > >> > > : > >> >Can you share your Dhalsim strategy? He is above Cable? > : > >> No way in hell Dhalsim dominates a match like Cable, Doom, Sentinel. > : > >> Where is his helper kill? Standing fierce? > : > >Sim is not born to kill helper or do nasty damage...he does have > : > >big-damage combos which is HARD....the reason why he dominates is because > : > >of his runaway skill, and he teleports....which automatically rocks cable > : > > : > Bison teleports too, are you going to tell me he beats Cable? > : > Dhalsim's runaway is not any good. What are you going to run away *with*? > : > He has no way to chip safely and no big combo off his long attacks.
> : Bison's teleport, as lame as psylocke's, is WEAK....different story from > : sim's
> : Sim has no chip pontential but doom does.....so include floating on your > : runaway loop, call doom during floating, then air dash or teleport...when > : time's running out even experts should get some nervous coz they are still > : human beings...then just doom more
> Leaves Doom extremely vulnerable. My dhalsim is ok, but I don't rely on > teleport at all. It's all about his s. short, priority and reach wise. > He has the ability to punish assists using his short 3-hit ground chains > repeatedly... it forces your opponent to block while his assist is > getting hit. That's actually key if you're talking about assist > counter-attacking. Teleport is way slow and his keepaway is very > limited. I highly doubt the japanese play him with keepaway... he does > very well on the offense.
> A runaway Dhalsim would get crushed by Cable, .. his keepaway simply > isn't at that level.
When leading a lot there is no point to risk yourself being offensive, one mistake = ahvb * 3, hyper-tempest * 5, or 8-hit headcrush, not worth
> : > : > >> BBH, IM, and SS are not that good (esp. BBH). Why would you want SS when > : > >> you can play Spiral? What does BBH add to a team strategically? > : > > > : > >BBH does runaway work and triple super work. > : > > : > Her TT is overrated and her ability to keep away with missiles is > : > about as good as megaman's fierce. > : >
> There's a good BBH that plays downtown and at Goodtimes in Boston. Cruel > hunting and her mines/missles are most of her game. She can do a s. > roundhouse, db+roundhouse XX missle and that leaves plenty of crap for > the opponent to deal with along with her assist attacking at the same > time. Her mines stop dash-ins. But from how I've seen BBH played well, > her Cruel hunting is really effective (particularly against those who use > b-cyclops without regard). Damage/coverage/chip-wise, it's better than a > lot of the other heavy damage "beam" attacks in the game (PC, MOB, etc.).
> : > > : > Samurai chips ok as help but IMO is not great (Spiral's alpha is about as > : > good). I just don't see him as better than Magneto, for instance, or on > : > par with Juggernaut.
> He takes away a good portion of Strider/Spiral's game (teleport), and > qcf+kk also destroys Juggernaut/Doom assist. It takes way too much > damage if you get nailed up close. He's got a chipping game, too, but I > think the main threat he poses to top tier is assist abuse and teleporting. > There's a safe pocket in the qcf+kk that keeps a flying sentinel safe, > but most other aerial attacks have to be done with caution.
> : Juggernaut is a scary one dimensional character based on his damage and > : headcrush, but dies to too many flying characters.
I think their ranking was based on 1vs1 fight...otherwise, they knew RV, they knew wolverine, I don't think Japanese don't know what they are talking about...
In article <030b237a.917c8...@usw-ex0102-013.remarq.com>, Cammy White <cammyNOcaS...@n3m0.org.invalid> wrote:
>The japanese ranked Spider-Man tops for some strange reason in >MvC1... Either we never figured it out right or they don't know >what they're talking about.
In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008021106240.1886-100...@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu>,
JackTheFob <jack...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote: >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: >> In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10008020026140.6576-100...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>, >Sim has no chip pontential but doom does.....so include floating on your >runaway loop, call doom during floating, then air dash or teleport...when >time's running out even experts should get some nervous coz they are still >human beings...then just doom more
Call BH. If Sim does anything, triple bake, otherwise a. fierce XX VB. Among other things. Flying around with Sim is like flying around with Sentinel except you do less and take more and don't chip and your range is overall not as good. But other than that it's good =)
>> Samurai chips ok as help but IMO is not great (Spiral's alpha is about as >> good). I just don't see him as better than Magneto, for instance, or on >> par with Juggernaut. >Juggernaut is a scary one dimensional character based on his damage and >headcrush, but dies to too many flying characters.
CC/BH.
>If Japan says SS is good, SS is good....what's the last time Japan made a >lame ranking?
This is one of those times where I wish posting in 22 point font was allowed. Anyways:
**** BIRDIE top tier in A2 ****
>In low level comp, where ppl don't block every time, you look for someone >who deals good damage and longer combos. In high comp, the better pixies >are those who can find open holes most often. Charlie opens holes easier >than Guile, while Guile does more damage IF he finds a hole.
I don't see Charlie opening up more holes than Guile. What are you going to do to open someone up?
>Charlie has air throw too, and in high comp you can see air throw from >miles away and tech all the time.
If you can't sneak in a throw, it's not because they're too easy to tech. You only have to wait a split second to do the throw instead ofthe fi/rh finisher. It is not a particularly important reason Guile is better though.
>Jack "Fob Master" Lin
-- Shaun P. McIsaac (508) 761 - 4722 People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
AK <a...@red.seas.upenn.edu> wrote: >JackTheFob (jack...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote: >: > Her TT is overrated and her ability to keep away with missiles is >: > about as good as megaman's fierce. >There's a good BBH that plays downtown and at Goodtimes in Boston. Cruel >hunting and her mines/missles are most of her game.
Somewhere in here amidst descriptions of BBHood's power, I probably ought to volunteer a first-hand description of the way Jackson plays with her on what I've been calling his "mess around" team.
Jackson puts her together with Jug-B/Hulk-B (Jug punch/headcrush and horiz. gamma charge/gamma crush) and then spends all day jumping around to fill the meter and harass you. Once in a while he'll throw a Jug punch just to annoy you and possibly do damage. But ultimately, he doesn't even really care whether BBHood wins or loses the opening fights, as long as she stays alive and on the field long enough to collect three meters. Once she's got that with those two behind her, your next screwup costs you a character on your team. Helpers are easiest to kill, but if she can catch a primary so much the better. Just about any helper who takes normal or worse damage will die outright in one shot, with minimal opportunity for counterattack. Cruel Hunting holds you down and starts blasting the helper silly, the headcrush probably will make it worse, and all of it just sort of waits until the Hulk comes down with the meteor to pancake the poor sod for whatever's left. And that's WITHOUT Juggernaut being glitched.
With all the crud that Hood throws around together with the Jug punch, rushing her down is basically impossible with most chars. Most rushers are going to need a helper to get past both Hood's crud and Juggernaut, which puts you on the clock to kill Hood before she's got three meters or the game's probably over -- once she's got three meters she can gradually wear your rusher down because if you call a helper, she'll kill it, and if you switch chars, she'll kill or maim that, too. The only chars that can really beat it are the top tier guys -- Doom can bomb them better than BBHood can bomb him, Sentinel and Cable can beat them at their own helper-slaughtering game, Storm plays much the same as Doom, Spiral and Strider could either out-crud it or teleport past it, etc.
IMO, there are two main definitions for what would constitute "second tier". One of them is if you can beat the vast majority of the chars and have a winnable but not optimistic game against at least some of the top tier. The other is if you can squash everyone _but_ the top tier, who in turn squashes you. BBHood is in the latter category.
>: Juggernaut is a scary one dimensional character based on his damage and >: headcrush, but dies to too many flying characters. >Juggernaut and AAA is a major threat.
Yes, he is. If Jug has altitude help the bombing game doesn't win for free any more, and many of the bombers have serious problems with Juggernaut if he can keep them near the ground. I know that Doom is usually considered the "beat Juggernaut for free" char of choice, but the last couple of days I've been abusing some Dooms pretty badly with Venom/Jug/Cammy by using Cammy to keep them on the ground and either Venom or Jug (or both) mauling them up close once I've got them there. I'm not going to profess that they'll win this more often than not, but they've got a winnable game with it, certainly.
This is one spot where I've got issue with the tier chart that got posted there -- I think Rogue, Venom, and Jug all went way too low. Yes, none of those three have good projectiles or keepaway games, but they're all very dangerous in a close-up rush, either by ability to initiate attack (Rogue), ability to keep their enemies from initiating attack (Venom), or by ability to splatter them if they just throw something with a recovery time from too close (Jug being obviously the best of these, but with Rogue not too far behind and Venom a little further behind). Jug is the easiest of the three to pin down (big slow target, doesn't have an air dash) but all of them, to some degree, pose a very real threat if you don't keep them a full screen away.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The Stilt Man stilt...@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~stiltman/stiltman.html < We are Microsoft Borg '98. Lower your expectations and > < surrender your money. Antitrust law is irrelevant. > < Competition is irrelevant. We will add your financial and > < technological distinctiveness to our own. Your software > < will adapt to service ours. Resistance is futile. >
: > Distribution: : > : > JackTheFob (jack...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote: : > : On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote: : > Leaves Doom extremely vulnerable. My dhalsim is ok, but I don't rely on : > teleport at all. It's all about his s. short, priority and reach wise. : > He has the ability to punish assists using his short 3-hit ground chains : > repeatedly... it forces your opponent to block while his assist is : > getting hit. That's actually key if you're talking about assist : > counter-attacking. Teleport is way slow and his keepaway is very : > limited. I highly doubt the japanese play him with keepaway... he does : > very well on the offense. : > : > A runaway Dhalsim would get crushed by Cable, .. his keepaway simply : > isn't at that level.
: When leading a lot there is no point to risk yourself being offensive, one : mistake = ahvb * 3, hyper-tempest * 5, or 8-hit headcrush, not worth
: Play like a Japanese and do some runaway thing
My impression was that the Japanese play offensive powerhouse. Just look at some of their combo movies. Of course their style has probably adapted to the strong keepaway in mvc2; however, as stated already, Dhalsim has nothing to do from a distance that is safer than doing up close(in another words he has no downwards projectile he can launch from the air with little/no recovery). And besides, you can't AHVB a dhalsim that's in your face with s. short.
Keepaway is much better played by the other characters in top tier... keepaway certainly can't be why he's placed in top ranks. Even that top -of-the-screen teleporting trick has holes and is generally weak since pulling out any offense from that location is ineffective. You'd better be ahead by about 2 characters if you want to do that, at which point you probably don't need it.
>> I'm curious as to what people perceive as the top tier and bottom tier of >> MvC2. If you can, please respond with your top 14 and bottom 14 characters. >> If you want to, put them in some order, and if you're feeling extremely >> gung-ho, rank all 56.
>> Thanks,
>> Will
>Let me try ranking these boys/gals/animals, I might be biased on middle >tiers...either they don't have good tourney performances or have not been >exposed, and keep in mind that mvc2 is a team game, so some team >combinations can just be overpowered
>Shuma >Spiderman >Marrow >Chun Li >Kobun >Zangief >Dan >Roll
>For first 2 tiers and last 2 tiers I'm sure enough...
>Characters that I might be biased: >Megaman - Japan has a good ranking on him, but he must have something else >beside rockball trap
>Ruby Heart - I know she can trap, but not sure if those Japanse long ass >combos matter or not
>Silver Samurai - Good chipping, good meter building, but he uses lots of >meters too....Japan gives him a good ranking
>Jin - I like Beta assist but not sure his potential on field, i can only >play pixie Jin
>Thanos - Still not sure how to play him, but I see him have some potential
Utterly ridiculous. Captain America is easily in the top tier. Besides having above average strength and vitality, 70% combos with five button presses, a double jump, incredible range in the air and ground, covering moves, a cartwheel which makes him invincible a few seconds so he can glide across the screen, the ability to negate any projectile, and one of the best assists in the game. Yeah, he must belong on the fourth tier. It's like Spiral. Everyone thought she sucked until Duc wiped the floor with everyone using Spiral. Utterly ridiculous.
ICaptainAmerical wrote: > >On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Will Beckley wrote:
> >> I'm curious as to what people perceive as the top tier and bottom tier of > >> MvC2. If you can, please respond with your top 14 and bottom 14 characters. > >> If you want to, put them in some order, and if you're feeling extremely > >> gung-ho, rank all 56.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Will
> >Let me try ranking these boys/gals/animals, I might be biased on middle > >tiers...either they don't have good tourney performances or have not been > >exposed, and keep in mind that mvc2 is a team game, so some team > >combinations can just be overpowered
> Utterly ridiculous. Captain America is easily in the top tier. Besides having > above average strength and vitality, 70% combos with five button presses, a > double jump, incredible range in the air and ground, covering moves, a cartwheel > which makes him invincible a few seconds so he can glide across the screen, the > ability to negate any projectile, and one of the best assists in > the game. Yeah, he must belong on the fourth tier.
Doom has one of the best assists in the game as well as the best keepaway game, Spiral and Sentinel can put a million things on the screen at once to do a ton of damage, Blackheart has arguably the best assist in the game, Cable can do 100% damage for one mistake anywhere on the screen, Strider can turn on ouroboros and do 50% block damage before you get a chance to move. C.America has... a double jump, a useless cartwheel, and an average anti-air assist. woo. What kind of damage are you playing on where C.America can do a 70% combo? And anyway, that requires the opponent not blocking at point blank range, a rare situation in MVC2. He is nowhere near the level of these top level characters.
He's slow, has no exception assist, isn't much for punishing mistakes, can't do a whole lot of damage, and doesn't have very good supers. Putting him in the same company as Ryu and Ruby Heart is being generous.
> It's like Spiral. Everyone thought she sucked until Duc wiped the floor with > everyone using Spiral.
Who's been beating everyone with C.America? Nobody.
: cartwheel which makes him invincible a few seconds so he can glide across the : screen, the ability to negate any projectile, and one of the best assists in : the game. Yeah, he must belong on the fourth tier. It's like Spiral. Everyone : thought she sucked until Duc wiped the floor with everyone using Spiral. : Utterly ridiculous.
Well not commenting on your CapAm comments (I'm sure you'll say you didn't mean it in hindsight), but Spiral was known to be a powerhouse not too long after the game came out. Her strengths aren't that easy to see when trying her out, but what adds to her game is her a) ability to get out of traps andb b) ability to get above the "dump shit from above" tactic.
Yea she stops assists with knives, can cause virtual lockdowns, has a 85% combo, blah blah all known before any major national tournies. To say she was viewed as sucking until b4 is false. She's good but has got some issues in her game that keep her from being #1.
CapAm shares absolutely nothing in common with Spiral or any of the top two tiers, for that matter.
