Guile's throw range
cho soobum
that he has the smallest throw range? Is throw range the only factor that
decides the level of counterthrowing ability?
Tim Morris
I don't post to this group much any more but this I couldn't resist. Hardest
character to counter throw with? I find Guile's strong throw to be extremely
reliable, it's Sagat that has the poorest throw.
+--------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tim Morris | "If love is blind I guess I'll buy myself a cane..." - GnR. |
+--------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
cho soobum
>sc...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (cho soobum) writes:
>>Since Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with, does that mean
>>that he has the smallest throw range? Is throw range the only factor that
>>decides the level of counterthrowing ability?
>I don't post to this group much any more but this I couldn't resist. Hardest
>character to counter throw with? I find Guile's strong throw to be extremely
>reliable, it's Sagat that has the poorest throw.
Eu-ming says Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with in
his 'counterthrow' guide. That's where I got the info.
-Soobum
Eu-Ming Lee
> Eu-ming says Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with in
> his 'counterthrow' guide. That's where I got the info.
Well, honestly, I DO counter-throw much better with Sagat than with Guile.
People who have played me would probably agree. Everyone is the same with
respect to counter-throwing (Ken, Ryu, Blanka, Balrog, Sagat), but Guile
I have slightly more difficulty with. I dunno if it's universal, but it's
just my particular quirk.
> -Soobum
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
Be there when I feed the tree.
Kenneth K Lee
>tmo...@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:
>
>>sc...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (cho soobum) writes:
>
>>>Since Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with, does that mean
>>>that he has the smallest throw range? Is throw range the only factor that
>>>decides the level of counterthrowing ability?
>
>>I don't post to this group much any more but this I couldn't resist. Hardest
>>character to counter throw with? I find Guile's strong throw to be extremely
>>reliable, it's Sagat that has the poorest throw.
>
> Eu-ming says Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with in
> his 'counterthrow' guide. That's where I got the info.
>
> -Soobum
>
to counter-throw with, except against the likes of Chun-Li or Honda, whom
you have to counter-throw forwards against (They have annoying throw range
and priorities *ugh*), but using Guile, if I see the tick coming, I'll
counter-throw away from the opponent and get it a surprising number of times.
I got a lot of counter-ticking practice by breaking the "no-tick" code here
and running up a large lead, and then sitting back and waiting for the other
guy to tick. Give it a try, it's fun watching them get pissed off :)
John Nishinaga
I think I posted this before, but anyways, here are the throw ranges relative
to each character:
Sagat
Ryu, Guile, Ken, Chun Li, Vega, M. Bison
Balrog
Blanka, Zangief (w/o SPD)
Dhalsim
E. Honda
Zangief (w/ SPD)
Note that the differences between each level isn't much (about 3 pixels). For
example, don't bother trying to learn a distanced cheap with Balrog against
(for example) Ryu.
And for the last time, there is no such thing as a throw priority!
--
John Nishinaga - jnis...@netcom.com
Philip John Stroffolino
or unfriendly in any way...
sc...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (cho soobum) writes:
>Since Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with, does that mean
>that he has the smallest throw range? Is throw range the only factor that
>decides the level of counterthrowing ability?
gu...@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth K Lee) writes
>You really think that he's the hardest? I find him one of the easiest
>to counter-throw with, except against the likes of Chun-Li or Honda, whom
>you have to counter-throw forwards against (They have annoying throw range
>and priorities *ugh*), but using Guile, if I see the tick coming, I'll
>counter-throw away from the opponent and get it a surprising number of times.
>I got a lot of counter-ticking practice by breaking the "no-tick" code here
>and running up a large lead, and then sitting back and waiting for the other
>guy to tick. Give it a try, it's fun watching them get pissed off :)
Chun Li does not have an exceptional throw range. In fact, her normal
throw range is rather pathetic. She simply walks fast on the ground --
that is why many people think she has a "good throw." She can zip in
quickly and unexpectedly.
Honda has excellent reach on his grappling moves.
There is no throw "priority."
There is no advantage to counter-throwing forward.
"Extended throw range" occurs when you have not attacked recently as
Eu-Ming explained in his "Art of Throwing" guides (available at the FTP
site).
Examples:
Chun Li can easily throw Blanka out of electricity as she is getting up.
Balrog can grab opponents from incredible distances if he has been
defending for a while.
When counterthrowing good tickers it is in your best interest to make
sure you don't initiate your throw attempt early (i.e. pressing throw
buttons rapidly while in block stun is a bad idea).
If Guile blocks a Blanka flying fierce at range, Blanka can walk up and
bite him nomatter what. In this situation, Guile will be unable to
razor kick (since he had recently blocked high), and will not have
enough range to counter throw Blanka as Blanka steps in for the munching.
Blanka is not normally considered a good ticker, despite his decent bite
range, because of his slow walking speed as well as the fact that a
missed bite results in a clumsy upperclaw. A missed Chun Li (or Vega)
strong throw attempt risks little, since they recover so quickly from
missed/blocked close strong strikes.
- P
BTW, the information in this post is the echo of wisdom that has
formerly been expressed on this bboard :^)
Brian Odom
>In article <1993May14.1...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> sc...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (cho soobum) writes:
>>tmo...@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:
>>
>>>sc...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (cho soobum) writes:
>>
>>>>Since Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with, does that mean
>>>>that he has the smallest throw range? Is throw range the only factor that
>>>>decides the level of counterthrowing ability?
>>
>>>I don't post to this group much any more but this I couldn't resist. Hardest
>>>character to counter throw with? I find Guile's strong throw to be extremely
>>>reliable, it's Sagat that has the poorest throw.
>>
>> Eu-ming says Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with in
>> his 'counterthrow' guide. That's where I got the info.
>>
>> -Soobum
Well, that's what Eu-Ming thinks. His words are not absolute truth. (I'm not
saying that I am speaking truth myself.....)
> You really think that he's the hardest? I find him one of the easiest
>to counter-throw with, except against the likes of Chun-Li or Honda, whom
>you have to counter-throw forwards against (They have annoying throw range
>and priorities *ugh*), but using Guile, if I see the tick coming, I'll
>counter-throw away from the opponent and get it a surprising number of times.
>I got a lot of counter-ticking practice by breaking the "no-tick" code here
>and running up a large lead, and then sitting back and waiting for the other
>guy to tick. Give it a try, it's fun watching them get pissed off :)
I find Zangief (of course with his crouch throws) and Guile the easiest to
counter throw with. For some strange reason, with Guile I am a counter
throwing god with his strong throw, but I am only average if I use him fierce
throw. Maybe it's a psychological thing, I don't know. Ironic how I find it
difficult to counter throw with Dhalsim even with his range. I really hate
that Chun Li neck kick manuever and then throw. It's a bitch for me to counter
that since Chun Li has no delay when landing from that neck kick (she needs a
delay there!). When countering with Dhalsim, if I miss the throw, he sticks
he big head out (does a head butt) and gets whacked. I try countering with
strong with Dhalsim but it seems like when I go to counterthrow sometimes I
will miss and then Dhalsim does his chop, but the opponent won't get hit and
then I get thrown. Ugh! At least when I miss with Guile that weird fist move
will hit quite often.
Brian Odom
>disclaimer: this post is not intended to be arrogant, insulting, unkind,
>or unfriendly in any way...
>sc...@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (cho soobum) writes:
>>Since Guile is the hardest character to counterthrow with, does that mean
>>that he has the smallest throw range? Is throw range the only factor that
>>decides the level of counterthrowing ability?
>gu...@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth K Lee) writes
>>You really think that he's the hardest? I find him one of the easiest
>>to counter-throw with, except against the likes of Chun-Li or Honda, whom
>>you have to counter-throw forwards against (They have annoying throw range
>>and priorities *ugh*), but using Guile, if I see the tick coming, I'll
>>counter-throw away from the opponent and get it a surprising number of times.
>>I got a lot of counter-ticking practice by breaking the "no-tick" code here
>>and running up a large lead, and then sitting back and waiting for the other
>>guy to tick. Give it a try, it's fun watching them get pissed off :)
>Chun Li does not have an exceptional throw range. In fact, her normal
>throw range is rather pathetic. She simply walks fast on the ground --
>that is why many people think she has a "good throw." She can zip in
>quickly and unexpectedly.
I think Chun Li has pretty good range AND speed. Maybe it's me...
Vega has even better speed, but I can counter his stuff rather easily....
>Honda has excellent reach on his grappling moves.
Sure does....
>There is no throw "priority."
Still to be determined, if you ask me....
>There is no advantage to counter-throwing forward.
Only disadvantages....
>"Extended throw range" occurs when you have not attacked recently as
>Eu-Ming explained in his "Art of Throwing" guides (available at the FTP
>site).
Not exactly. A good tick (with Guile) is
sonic boom (walk), standing short, throw
This throw is from extended throwing range if done properly.
>Examples:
>Chun Li can easily throw Blanka out of electricity as she is getting up.
I don't think it's all that easy. This stuff is hard as hell to do (for me).
Once again, maybe it's me. Also, it may depend on which electricity Blanka
is doing (jab/strong/fierce). Maybe Chun Li has good range after all.
>Balrog can grab opponents from incredible distances if he has been
>defending for a while.
>When counterthrowing good tickers it is in your best interest to make
>sure you don't initiate your throw attempt early (i.e. pressing throw
>buttons rapidly while in block stun is a bad idea).
True. This is where all the skill comes to play. Usually I time is correctly,
but sometimes I push early (I'm not perfect!). This is why I throw with strong
and also why I do a SPD with jab or strong (NEVER fierce!). But yes, DO NOT
continuous pound on the buttons. This leaves you vulnerable. Once or twice
should do. If you pound on the buttons, all the attacker has to do is fake a
tick and pound on you, since you can't be blocking and pounding on the buttons
at the same time. :)
>If Guile blocks a Blanka flying fierce at range, Blanka can walk up and
>bite him nomatter what. In this situation, Guile will be unable to
>razor kick (since he had recently blocked high), and will not have
>enough range to counter throw Blanka as Blanka steps in for the munching.
Which is why I hate that damn delay with the RK. Just another defecit with
Guile's RK.
DP vs. RK
1) DP is totally invulnerable on the way up, RK is not
2) DP has NO delay after doing one, RK does
3) DP does more damage, RK does less
4) DP is non-charge, RK is charged
5) DP can be done at any situation, RK can't
etc.
I wish they had given the DP a delay instead of the razor kick, but I didn't
program the game, so my point is moot.
Also FB is much better than SB, and the HK is much better than his knee!!
What does Guile have anyways??? Hmmmm.....
>Blanka is not normally considered a good ticker, despite his decent bite
>range, because of his slow walking speed as well as the fact that a
>missed bite results in a clumsy upperclaw. A missed Chun Li (or Vega)
>strong throw attempt risks little, since they recover so quickly from
>missed/blocked close strong strikes.
Exactly. Dhalsim is probably the worst ticker, but an average counter ticker.
(Dhalsim can't jump then tick effectively, his jabs are slow, his walking speed
is slow and a missed throw results in a clumsy move)
Zangief is probably the best ticker (SPD) and best counter ticker. Aside from
Zangief, I think Chun Li is the best ticker. (Quick jabs, fast walking speed,
good priority on jumping moves, good damage on throws and a missed throw
results in a quick move).
Kenneth K Lee
[stuff deleted]
>
>There is no throw "priority."
I beg to differ. For example, walk under a character like Guile as he
jumps and go for the throw as he lands. Not too hard, you should get it
consistently even with shitty timing. Now try the same against Chun-Li -
You'll notice that it is much harder to throw her consistently unless you
have perfect timing.
>
>There is no advantage to counter-throwing forward.
>
Countering ticks against someone like Chun-Li (who does have a good throwing
range - she can walk up to Blanka and throw him out of electricity at the
correct distance - a priviledge reserved for Dhalsim, Honda and Zangief
on the Classic machine) or Honda using a character like Guile requires
you to close the range so that you can counter-throw, otherwise, you have
a much more difficult time.
[other old-and-well-known knowledge deleted]
Kenichiro Tanaka
Kenneth K L...@engin.umic (967)
> >There is no throw "priority."
> I beg to differ. For example, walk under a character like Guile as he
> jumps and go for the throw as he lands. Not too hard, you should get it
> consistently even with shitty timing. Now try the same against Chun-Li -
> You'll notice that it is much harder to throw her consistently unless you
> have perfect timing.
I think this is just because Chun Li has a faster recovery time from
jumps. Or maybe because she just jumps faster. (same thing?)
In any case, this is irrelavant because you're talking about the ability
to avoid throws whereas the original comment was about the priority of
(or non-existance of) the throw itself.
Ken
David Mattes Orr
I discovered something interesting about throw timing... I was playing Vega
against Guile in CE. I tried to jump in behind him and go for the throw.
We hit the buttons at EXACTLY the same time, so close that you could not
disginguish the separate button clicks, and I got the throw! Dispite the
fact that he was on the ground, and I was landing. We experimented a bit
(read: I kept doing it until he found a way to counter), and discovered that
to be consistent with the throw, Guile has to hit the button _before_ Vega
lands. If he does that, he gets the throw. But otherwise, I get it.
(I am something of a Vega master, my opponent was not a Guile master).
Dave
Eu-Ming Lee
>I beg to differ. For example, walk under a character like Guile as he
>jumps and go for the throw as he lands. Not too hard, you should get it
>consistently even with shitty timing. Now try the same against Chun-Li -
>You'll notice that it is much harder to throw her consistently unless you
>have perfect timing.
There is a 'landing zone' where the falling character is completely
vulnerable to throws and attacks. Chun Li lands faster than Guile,
making the time she is vulnerable much less than Guile's time. There
is no 'throw priority'. With good timing, you can walk under and throw
Chun Li, Vega, and every other character 100% of the time... no randomness
or 'priority' is involved.
The only exception to this seems to be Zangief's SPD. If Z buffers
the SPD while he's in the air, he will have priority over all ground
throws, including another Zangief's SPD.
Note: My definition of 'buffer' is different from other people's
definitions. When I say 'buffer', I mean just that. I say 'interrupt'
for other people's meaning of 'buffer'. If you're confused, don't
blame me, I didn't make up the wrong definitions.
Thomas Calvin Cannon
>gu...@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth K Lee) writes:
>
>
>Note: My definition of 'buffer' is different from other people's
>definitions. When I say 'buffer', I mean just that. I say 'interrupt'
>for other people's meaning of 'buffer'. If you're confused, don't
>blame me, I didn't make up the wrong definitions.
>
Ahhh, but 'interrupting' requires 'buffering' right? Using your definitions
of course. Just making sure I've got everything straight.
>--
>Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
>Be there when I feed the tree.
---
Tom Cannon
ink...@leland.stanford.edu
Tim Morris
>>Note: My definition of 'buffer' is different from other people's
>>definitions. When I say 'buffer', I mean just that. I say 'interrupt'
>>for other people's meaning of 'buffer'. If you're confused, don't
>>blame me, I didn't make up the wrong definitions.
>>
>Ahhh, but 'interrupting' requires 'buffering' right? Using your definitions
>of course. Just making sure I've got everything straight.
No. Buffering means performing a move early and putting it "in the pipeline"
so it gets executed after the current action, eg. DP'ing just before you hit
the ground. Interrupting is just that: stopping one move prematurely by
starting another.