Honda Viability
Ed Sayre
wondering what folks think of the viability of Honda in the SF2 series.
Weaknesses? Glaring weaknesses? Strengths? Quirks?
--
Ed "Shredder" Sayre internet: shre...@telerama.pgh.pa.us
"Jake liked his women the way he liked his kiwi fruit; sweet yet tart,
firm-fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and covered with short brown fuzzy
hair." --Gretchen Schmidt
Malapitan, Rodney
>I've seen a lot of posts on the "viability" of characters and was
>wondering what folks think of the viability of Honda in the SF2 series.
>Weaknesses? Glaring weaknesses? Strengths? Quirks?
Since you asked...
Weaknesses: 1) Width.
One of the harder characters to use to sneak up on or
behind a character for the throw due to his bell shape.
If any character is a sucker for the roundhouse sweep,
it's Honda.
2) Enemy Characters:
a) Ken/Ryu.
All they need to do is the standard fireball - sweep
trap. Also, K/R can fireball, then run to Honda
as he kicks out (and misses) and lands for the easy
throw. This cheezy (yet technically not a tick)
move WORKS.
b) Zangief
A Zangier with a fairly consistent SPD is a really
frustrating match. Otherwise, his sweep hits the
HHS, his spinning punch (timed right, not too
hard to figure out) hits the torpedo.
I'll try to add more later...
qe...@matai.vuw.ac.nz
> In article <221nje$3...@telerama.pgh.pa.us>, (Ed Sayre) writes...
>>I've seen a lot of posts on the "viability" of characters and was
>>wondering what folks think of the viability of Honda in the SF2 series.
>>Weaknesses? Glaring weaknesses? Strengths? Quirks?
>
> Since you asked...
>
> Weaknesses: 1) Width.
> One of the harder characters to use to sneak up on or
> behind a character for the throw due to his bell shape.
> If any character is a sucker for the roundhouse sweep,
> it's Honda.
> 2) Enemy Characters:
> a) Ken/Ryu.
> All they need to do is the standard fireball - sweep
> trap. Also, K/R can fireball, then run to Honda
> as he kicks out (and misses) and lands for the easy
> throw. This cheezy (yet technically not a tick)
> move WORKS.
> b) Zangief
> frustrating match. Otherwise, his sweep hits the
> HHS, his spinning punch (timed right, not too
> hard to figure out) hits the torpedo.
>
> I'll try to add more later...
>--
>>Ed "Shredder" Sayre internet: shre...@telerama.pgh.pa.us
>>"Jake liked his women the way he liked his kiwi fruit; sweet yet tart,
>>firm-fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and covered with short brown fuzzy
>>hair." --Gretchen Schmidt
I was a major fan of Edmondo Honda in SFII Classic. I could take out any pleb
on any character, and it was only the 'fireball-legsweep' Ryus and Kens, the
pain in the butt Dhalsims ( serious mismatch ), The Chun Lis that would
'throw you over and over', and the Expert Guiles, and Blankas that threatened
me. ( hmmm that list is pretty large .. But what I'm trying to say is, Honda
in Classic really was a cool dude. )
His Leaping Roundhouse is one of his most damaging moves, It does huge
amounts if you catch someone in mid-fireball. All of his standing kicks knock
the opponent over ( Making it worth trading for a Fireball/SB in the face )
and his close Roundhouse and Forward hit twice ( High kick & Knee ).
For Combos or patterns you could Leap, Fierce Slap and High Kick ( this can
Re-Dizzy ). Another is the standard Leap and start slapping before you land.
If you play cheap then, Hondas throw/bearhug can be done immediately after
you do the close Knee ( perfect for missed DP's ), and of course, after you
throw them, you give them some slapping to give them a bit of extra blocking
damage. I tried to get used to using his Fierce kick when close, so that if
I didn't connect with the 'grap and knee to the head', then I'd give them a
High Kick, but this isn't so effective because the 'Knee' hold doesn't have
as much priority as the two punching throws ( Throw with Strong, and Bearhug
with Fierce ), and so you always get the kick instead, and the opponent simply
ducks under it and legsweeps.
Against Guiles, a crouching strong stops his annoying forward sweep ( indeed
it has huge priorty and is useful as a main attack ). And of course, you
can't live without Hondas beautiful Fierce punch. The Chop that knocks pretty
much Everything out of the air.
I'd say Honda is a pretty staunch dude in Classic, and his moves are somewhat
similar to Blankas, so I found it pretty easy to make the changeup when I
needed to.
As for CE, I couldn't survive against Bisons or Guiles, and they seemed
to tone Honda down somewhat. His 'mobile slapping' just makes him more
vulnerable to damage, and the headram would get taken out by so many moves
that it wasn't worth risking. I've gone up against some other Honda players
and they can use him with great success ( His leaping Kick still does Mega
damage, and unless you have invulnerability [ ie. DP ] then it's not worth
the risk to try and punch his HHS ). They've flipped the Balance over between
Honda and Dhalsim. In CE, its a serious mismatch because Dhalsim doesn't
stand a chance. I gave up with Honda at this point, because Ryu and Ken
players had mastered the good ol' "Fireball & Legweep" trick, and Kens new
Fierce DP pretty much stops the slow-jumping Honda from getting close ( and
Honda can't do sh*t from any more then half a screen length away ).
HF has a new improved Honda. The computer cheats insanely with the Huge
Buttafuoco (sp?) and does combos that humans can only dream of. The computer
even does the Buttafuoco through fireballs, and then connects twice to make
you dizzy. The computer Honda is impressive to say the least, but I have
never seen a Human Honda who lasted much more then 2 rounds. Nor have I
seen any new moves that actually allow Honda to .. like .. Hit the opponent.
Let me elaborate : 1) Fireball / Legsweep is still a possibility, 2) Ryu
and Ken can HK in the sky, this generally knocks Honda out of the sky,
3) His 'mobile Slaps' can still be DP'd or Somersault kicked or 'Bison flamed'
or Head stomped .. or whatever 4) His Head ram has improved affectiveness
because it now hits opponents above you, but you still have the delay after
you connect, and unless you can guarantee that they won't block, then you will
get thrown before you land. Jabbing still, as always, works to counter this.
5) He's still a slow mother. Walking and Jumping are two things that E Honda
still can't get the hang of. You can never walk up and throw, and slow
fireballs are a nightmare come true. Against fast opponents ( Chun Li, Vega,
Blanka, Balrog ( he walks fast ), Bison ) you just can't control the game. You
are always trying to get close to the opponent ( who simply leaps away ) and
the game becomes nothing but one of responding to what the opponent does
(which is something he ain't too good at ). Because you jump low, any opponent
who jumps higher then you ( hmm.. everyone ! ) gets the priority to hit you
out of the air. And there ain't nothing that can take Chun Li's kicks out of
the air if she's above you ( and she alway will be if you both jump ).
Basically, Honda's got huge damage potential, but he's just too plain slow.
Zangief is slow too, but at least with him combos ( hmm let me guess.. SPD )
are possible. Combos are impossible with Honda because of the DP/SBK/Somersault
Kick/furball express etc. which can be done midway through Hondas slow attacks.
hmm... now that I've totally depressed myself, and convinced myself never to
play Honda again.. I'll let you decide. It might be worth giving him a try,
but I really can't imagine him being any good in HF. I'll stick to Classic
Honda, CE Balrog, or HF Chun-Bitch
Keep practicing..
all these rumours, about SFII dying a slow death, are false ... aren't they ??
(gulp!)
-------------
Simon Westenra, Victoria University, Wellington, NZ.
Simon Juden
more tha 2 rounds in - well honda is my favourite character and I can
finish HF with him (as I"m sure plenty of others can). BUT I still
can't beat fb-sweep ryu/kens (though if you can predict fb's a fast
torpedo can sometime hit half way through the fb motion if you're in
the right position - a good ken/ryu will notice this and fake you into
torpedoing and dp you though). Anyone got any good methods with honda
vs fb-sweeping ken-ryu? Of course once they make a mistake they get
hit for shitloads of damage....but if they don't I'm toast. Until I
switch to ryu of course (I believe it is customary to put
hahahahahahahahahaha after such a statement).
Simon
Rob Collins
First of all, don't continually jump in. Block a few of the
fireballs, jump straight over other ones -- all the time trying to
change your positioning. Ryu does have to maintain good position for
his fb-sweep trap to be effective, so don't make life easy for him.
Do jump in a few times (or Ryu will throw fireballs all day long). If
Ryu does throw a FB from the "wrong" distance, you can reward him with
a nice hefty Roundhouse to the head as he tries to sweep you.
If you are closer to Ryu, you can stop him from fireballing by kicking
him out of his FB with Honda's far standing kicks. I find standing
forward is the best for this. Get overzealous with the standing
roundhouse and Ryu is likely to jump in and combo you as you're
recovoring from your kick. Closer still and Honda has a variety of
moves to knock Ryu out of his fireball motion.
Really none of these "solutions" are very satisfactory. To win you've
really got to get in close to Ryu, if he keeps you away he's got a big
advantage.
The most obvious way to get close is to anticipate a fireball, then
jump in and combo Ryu. Probably the best combo to use is Fierce,
crouching strong, HHS. This does nice damage, and if you are good,
you can throw/grab him straight out of the HHS!
If you do manage to get close to Ryu make him pay for all the
frustrating time he's been sweeping you as you land. Honda's got the
capabiltity to do major damage quick! Don't be afraid to tick him --
(if you don't Ryu can just sit there eating minor damage, and he can
easily knock you back into a bad position by doing a sweep-fireball to
your blocked form.)
Honda is a near perfect ticking machine in close like this. His throw
range is only second to the range of the SPD. Mix up your ticks with
fakes to keep Ryu guessing -- basically mess with his mind as much as
you can. Don't be afraid of being called cheap -- anyone who has been
beating you with fireball traps has no right calling anyone cheap |-)
Unfortunately this is as good an answer that I can think of. The
bottom line is that Ryu has an advantage over Honda. If your Ryu has
perfect positioning it'll be damn nigh imposible to get past his
sweep-fb trap.
Rob.
Blaine Green
against Ken/Ryu (.500 or so) - I just keep my hand on the roundhouse and
wait for them to try the fireball. Its reach (the roundhouse) is
incredible and I can do it standing so they usually don't go down to
block. I usually frustrate them to do the fireball when I am out of kick
range but then I am usually just right to jump and kick them before they
get out of their "fireball mode" to DP me. Most Ken/Ryu players are so
used to relying on their fbs, it takes them out of their game (try playing
Ken/Ryus and mastering Ryu's HK over FB - that pisses people off so much
:) I believe a good Balrog player can decimate most Ken/Ryu players)
However, against guile, I am powerless?! In the classic, I can some of
the time kick them out of their flash kicks, but now, I can never get it
- they can just sit back and sonic boom, kick, kick, kick - flash kick.
wait... sonic boom, kick kick, sonic boom... etc...
Malapitan, Rodney
In article <1993Jul20.1...@husc14.harvard.edu>, bgr...@husc10.harvard.edu (Blaine Green) writes...
>Actually, with Honda in the new SNES Turbo, I bat pretty well with Honda
>against Ken/Ryu (.500 or so) - I just keep my hand on the roundhouse and
>wait for them to try the fireball. Its reach (the roundhouse) is
>incredible and I can do it standing so they usually don't go down to
>block. I usually frustrate them to do the fireball when I am out of kick
>range but then I am usually just right to jump and kick them before they
>get out of their "fireball mode" to DP me. Most Ken/Ryu players are so
>used to relying on their fbs, it takes them out of their game (try playing
>Ken/Ryus and mastering Ryu's HK over FB - that pisses people off so much
Huh? The kick snaps out (IMHO) too slowly to consistantly trade or stop
a fireballing k/r, unless you've guessed in advance....
>:) I believe a good Balrog player can decimate most Ken/Ryu players)
>
>However, against guile, I am powerless?! In the classic, I can some of
You jokin, right?
>the time kick them out of their flash kicks, but now, I can never get it
>- they can just sit back and sonic boom, kick, kick, kick - flash kick.
>wait... sonic boom, kick kick, sonic boom... etc...
If you mean Guile's crouching foreward/roundhouse kick, try a jumping
foreward kick. It hits damn near everything. Really.
Honda's one of the good characters to use vs. Guile.
Who else has got a fair shot at ol' flattop?
Vega
Sagat
Balrog (yes, Balrog)
Dhalsim
K/R (standard)
Blanka
Work on that Honda! He seems to be dissapearing around here.....
>
Seth James Killian
List of proposed Guile Killers:
>Vega
>Sagat
>Balrog (yes, Balrog)
>Dhalsim
>K/R (standard)
>Blanka
>Work on that Honda! He seems to be dissapearing around here.....
OK, most of that list looks okay, with Vega being very up
in the air (he is vulnerable to certain offensive Guile traps), but
Balrog?! No. I forward kick at the beginning of the round. You lose.
I boom occasionaly. Balrog has absolutely zero safe approaches to
Guile. The same affliction hampers Honda. Honda can, at least, slap
a really obvious Guile's leg sweeps, but it is small consolation.
Your neighborhood Guile's must really have fallen on hard times since
Classic. Guile has a very tough time with more characters now than
ever, but the consolation lies in the fact that he *crushes* certain
other characters, with nothing more than a rote pattern. Honda and
Balrog are the two easiest characters to wipe out, with Zangief also
being at somewhat of a severe disadvantage....
Seth Killian
?>>
RPM
In article <22kmpc$m...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, skil...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes...
>st...@rosie.uh.edu (Malapitan, Rodney) writes:
>
>List of proposed Guile Killers:
>
>>Vega
>>Sagat
>>Balrog (yes, Balrog)
>>Dhalsim
>>K/R (standard)
>>Blanka
>
>>Work on that Honda! He seems to be dissapearing around here.....
>
> OK, most of that list looks okay, with Vega being very up
> in the air (he is vulnerable to certain offensive Guile traps), but
> Balrog?! No. I forward kick at the beginning of the round. You lose.
My options:
Charging punch: WILL hit or trade. Can charge between kicks.
Crouching foreward: Gotcha.
> I boom occasionaly. Balrog has absolutely zero safe approaches to
Boom? TAP or jump over. Jumping short hits crouching fierce clean,
otherwise you WILL get hit (I might end up trading, but it'll be worth it)
> Guile. The same affliction hampers Honda. Honda can, at least, slap
All Guiles I play RELY on the belief that the foreward kick is ALL they need.
Mistake. Also, Honda's belly flap hits the crouching foreward/roundhouse.
Can't rely on those kicks now.
> a really obvious Guile's leg sweeps, but it is small consolation.
> Your neighborhood Guile's must really have fallen on hard times since
> Classic. Guile has a very tough time with more characters now than
My Guiles are just fine, thanks.
While in a few parts of the country he didn't catch on, he was a BIG
splash over here and still is played GOOD.
> ever, but the consolation lies in the fact that he *crushes* certain
> other characters, with nothing more than a rote pattern. Honda and
> Balrog are the two easiest characters to wipe out, with Zangief also
> being at somewhat of a severe disadvantage....
Overgeneralization, man. Too bad we can't compare notes at a machine together.
I'm still batting 70-75% vs. Guiles
>
> Seth Killian
> ?>>
I still respect your opinion, though.
Lord Baal
> OK, most of that list looks okay, with Vega being very up
> in the air (he is vulnerable to certain offensive Guile traps), but
> Balrog?! No. I forward kick at the beginning of the round. You lose.
> I boom occasionaly. Balrog has absolutely zero safe approaches to
> Guile. The same affliction hampers Honda. Honda can, at least, slap
> a really obvious Guile's leg sweeps, but it is small consolation.
> Your neighborhood Guile's must really have fallen on hard times since
Actually Honda is pretty good against guile all you have to do
is get close and tick....getting is not even that hard.... your
splash hits all his leg attacks.....
(_______)
\ \ / /
\ /
____________\_/
/|| ||
/ || 666 ||
/ ||_________||
* || ||
"" ""
To Foolish Mortals, God is a Cow......
Lord Baal....
John Nishinaga
> Actually Honda is pretty good against guile all you have to do is
> get close and tick....getting is not even that hard.... your splash
> hits all his leg attacks.....
you distance yourself correctly.
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com
Steve Larsen
: You know the routine, skip to the end.
: >
: > OK, most of that list looks okay, with Vega being very up
: > in the air (he is vulnerable to certain offensive Guile traps), but
: > Balrog?! No. I forward kick at the beginning of the round. You lose.
: My options:
: Charging punch: WILL hit or trade. Can charge between kicks.
: Crouching foreward: Gotcha.
It is true that a charging punch can hit a crouching forward kicking Guile,
but this needs to be predicted, and any good Guile will not sit an aimlessly
hit forward, so hitting him in mid-sweep is hard.
: > I boom occasionaly. Balrog has absolutely zero safe approaches to
: Boom? TAP or jump over. Jumping short hits crouching fierce clean,
: otherwise you WILL get hit (I might end up trading, but it'll be worth it)
If any Balrog TAPs through a sonic while I am playing Guile, I will just
stand up and back-hand punch him. If Balrog jumps it, sweep him as he lands.
He has NO good defense against this
: > Guile. The same affliction hampers Honda. Honda can, at least, slap
: All Guiles I play RELY on the belief that the foreward kick is ALL they need.
: Mistake. Also, Honda's belly flap hits the crouching foreward/roundhouse.
: Can't rely on those kicks now.
Well, if that is what your Guile's beleive, then they suck.
: > a really obvious Guile's leg sweeps, but it is small consolation.
: > Your neighborhood Guile's must really have fallen on hard times since
: > Classic. Guile has a very tough time with more characters now than
: My Guiles are just fine, thanks.
: While in a few parts of the country he didn't catch on, he was a BIG
: splash over here and still is played GOOD.
Your Guiles are not "just fine" if they beleive that the forward kick is
"all they need."
: > ever, but the consolation lies in the fact that he *crushes* certain
: > other characters, with nothing more than a rote pattern. Honda and
: > Balrog are the two easiest characters to wipe out, with Zangief also
: > being at somewhat of a severe disadvantage....
: Overgeneralization, man. Too bad we can't compare notes at a machine together.
: I'm still batting 70-75% vs. Guiles
I can assure you that Balrog (and I am talking masters here) has no chance
against Guile.
: >
: > Seth Killian
: > ?>>
: I still respect your opinion, though.
And your opinion is also respected.
--
Steve (lar...@cs.utah.edu)
Any Linux user knows,
the DOS Operating System blows.
RPM
>: > OK, most of that list looks okay, with Vega being very up
>: > in the air (he is vulnerable to certain offensive Guile traps), but
>: > Balrog?! No. I forward kick at the beginning of the round. You lose.
>
>: My options:
>: Charging punch: WILL hit or trade. Can charge between kicks.
>: Crouching foreward: Gotcha.
>
>
>It is true that a charging punch can hit a crouching forward kicking Guile,
>but this needs to be predicted, and any good Guile will not sit an aimlessly
>hit forward, so hitting him in mid-sweep is hard.
Not really.
Ah, but a good Balrog will get a Guile nervous enough to be UNSURE of
when to razor kick to counter the charging punch. Guile becomes a
nervous punching bag, trying to PREDICT what Balrog will do.
The tables are turned!
>: > I boom occasionaly. Balrog has absolutely zero safe approaches to
>: Boom? TAP or jump over. Jumping short hits crouching fierce clean,
>: otherwise you WILL get hit (I might end up trading, but it'll be worth it)
>
>
>If any Balrog TAPs through a sonic while I am playing Guile, I will just
>stand up and back-hand punch him. If Balrog jumps it, sweep him as he lands.
Agreed, the TAP can sometimes be a STUPID idea vs. Guile.
BUT, HONDA falls for the sweep trick FAR more than Balrog. I've seen
Hondas. I've played as Honda. And sir, Balrog's not Honda.
A smart Balrog (heck, a smart Honda too) will stick close to Guile.
>He has NO good defense against this
Never say never....
>
>: > Guile. The same affliction hampers Honda. Honda can, at least, slap
SLAP??? Slap what? If you're talking air to ground, Honda's Belly flop
hits ALL of Guile's kicks. If air to air, Balrog's air priority has been
surprisingly improved!
>
>: All Guiles I play RELY on the belief that the foreward kick is ALL they need.
>: Mistake. Also, Honda's belly flap hits the crouching foreward/roundhouse.
>: Can't rely on those kicks now.
>
>Well, if that is what your Guile's beleive, then they suck.
Your Balrogs suck too.....
What's their quality and tactics?
I say again, lotsa Balrogs are still suffering from
CE Balrog vs. Guile syndrome.
The memories are so horrible they have no confidence in the match at all!!
>
>: > a really obvious Guile's leg sweeps, but it is small consolation.
>: > Your neighborhood Guile's must really have fallen on hard times since
>: > Classic. Guile has a very tough time with more characters now than
>
>: My Guiles are just fine, thanks.
>: While in a few parts of the country he didn't catch on, he was a BIG
>: splash over here and still is played GOOD.
>
>Your Guiles are not "just fine" if they beleive that the forward kick is
>"all they need."
The problem may be that I'm the only serious Balrog vs. Guile strategist.
They don't get enough practice vs. my style because almost every other
Balrog in the city is weak or suffers from CE Balrog-Guile Syndrome.
Actually, there's 2 that rely on ticks & boom-footsweep. In fact I played
one today, and whipped the $#^! outta him!!!
>I can assure you that Balrog (and I am talking masters here) has no chance
>against Guile.
Masters shmasters. NOBODY is a master. They just have a good technique.
Any talk of "maximum potential char. vs. maximum potential character"
is kinda moot because it's never gonna happen.
I'd LOVE to see your Guile. Do you have any TRUE & SERIOUS Balrog players
there? Alot of fellow non-K/R's are mostly scrubs. How about your area?
The characters of Choice vs. Balrog are Sagat, Honda and Zangief
over here. (notice who's missing)
>: > Seth Killian
>: > ?>>
>: I still respect your opinion, though.
>
>And your opinion is also respected.
Thanks, man. Almost looked like a flame, back there..... :^)
Now, which other SEVERELY underrated character can I push to the limits...
>
>--
>Steve (lar...@cs.utah.edu)
>Any Linux user knows,
>the DOS Operating System blows.
- RPM
*taking useless characters beyond their limits*
Philip John Stroffolino
>It is true that a charging punch can hit a crouching forward kicking Guile,
>but this needs to be predicted, and any good Guile will not sit an aimlessly
>hit forward, so hitting him in mid-sweep is hard.
Yes - the ducking forward isn't a cure-all -- I prefer a quick dashing
jab punch as the leg retracts (risks a razor kick, unfortunately)
>If any Balrog TAPs through a sonic while I am playing Guile, I will just
>stand up and back-hand punch him. If Balrog jumps it, sweep him as he lands.
>He has NO good defense against this
Even if Balrog is really close enough when he TAPs through a sonic boom,
Guile can always block or throw; I don't believe it it ever a good idea
to TAP through a sonic boom. Jumping over it is a problem if the Guile
player is good at run-under or sac throwing, not to mention the good ole
idle standing forward kick or standing roundhouse at a distance...
>I can assure you that Balrog (and I am talking masters here) has no chance
>against Guile.
He's got a chance, IMO - just a slim chance... You can sometimes nail
them with a standing fierce or dashing jab when they lob a sonic boom.
And if you ever get them dizzy...
Guile's that are merely "above average" or attempt to be super-defensive
are very beatable.
Well timed Guile attack patterns (follow a sonic boom with a jump) are
pretty effective againt Balrog, much more effective than a turtle Guile.
Turtle Guiles can be dealt with much like Ryu/Ken, with unpredictable
aggression.
It is hard for Guile to get off a sonic boom when Balrog is charging at
him frequently from medium range. However, that razor kick has quite a
reach... Sometimes I'll get nailed by it as I am "feinting" :^)
Whatever...
Phil
Eu-Ming Lee
>The problem may be that I'm the only serious Balrog vs. Guile strategist.
>They don't get enough practice vs. my style because almost every other
>Balrog in the city is weak or suffers from CE Balrog-Guile Syndrome.
I enjoy Balrog vs. Guile. There is no glory if Guile wins and great glory
for a Balrog win (at least this is Conventional SF Wisdom). However, after
a while, the people cheered when the Guile player FINALLY ousted me in a
close third round.
>>I can assure you that Balrog (and I am talking masters here) has no chance
>>against Guile.
>I'd LOVE to see your Guile. Do you have any TRUE & SERIOUS Balrog players
>there? Alot of fellow non-K/R's are mostly scrubs. How about your area?
>The characters of Choice vs. Balrog are Sagat, Honda and Zangief
>over here. (notice who's missing)
Zangrief is the best vs. Balrog, not Guile.
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
"I was shipwrecked with this frog who was constantly testing my faith. He
made outrageous demands. I ignored them. One day I strapped on my boat to
freedom and surfed into shore. He's not touching me anymore."