Vega players unite!
Alain Hoang
Vega players, I'm just wondering here about some of your my funky things you've
done with Vega. Like grabbing people out of the DARNDEST of times with the air
slam or just comboes or just otherwise.
Well lemme put in my 2 bits. Agh I got crushed so quickly by a DP
happy Ken player today. Anyways I just got mad (bad bad bad idea) and spent
more than the allotted 75 cents (well I spent a dollar) I was planning to.
Anyways small suggestion is don't play when you're angry and low on money.
Well anyways on with my gripes. I was doing the Vega roll on a downed opponent
and got my share of a couple of DPing out of it. I got annoyed but said it's
a given. Anyways I was playing him and I did the roll..... and he tried to DP
it. Now HERE comes the BS that needs to be fixed. He was STANDING up... messed
up a DP and did a fierce punch... (the close uppercut) I was in the MIDDLE
of my roll and hit me RIGHT out of it. I gawked and said plenty of things that
are much ado censored. And I got totalled (and I've crushed this moron before,
I'm embarassed). Anyways I left grumbling angry and really ticked. And my
complaint is GET THE DAMN PRIORITIES straight on Vega. What the hell is more
FUBARRED than getting PUNCHED by a normal crap when your already rolling into
him and there is no time to counter (not like when I'm trying to roll IN,
and gain some distance). Agh I'm ticked ticked. Anyways I think I have to work
on Vega's curve maneuver because I think when I'm trying to get the the other
person's back I always get gimpy punched or fierced before I even get close to
grabbing them. Bunch of BS IMO but then again that's life. Anyways if I wait
too long to get to the back I get hit before I get to move.. I do it too early
they're waiting for me. I think that's stupid..... give me back the priority
on that move. The sheer speed isn't enough if Iget knocked out of a properly
executed and moved slam.
Anyways I'm utterly embarassed I lost to another Vega player too... I
don't like that :(. Oh well, I'm just blowing steam and expecting "you're stupid
for losing in the first place". Anyways I'm trying the air throw (not slam
and I LOVE how it comes out now.. I grab jumpers every so often before their
comboes of annoyance start) and I get slammed and I try to slam him back and I
lose the slam contest. We both wall bounced but he had more height... is it
true that the person with MORE height will beat the other guy to the bounce?
I'm a pretty good slammer and hit the button perfectly (or at least I thought I
did) and still LOST the throw. I'm ticked that could possibly happen because
on CE I just air threw them or beat them to the throw anyways. Agh I don't
want to admit losing to another Vega player 'specially since I'm the one trying
to be the local expert on him.... oh well long road to learn.
I'm having a hard time with his sheer jumping speed, it's really messing
me up trying the comboes. BTW is Vega's little jab claws slowed down at all?
I almost never use it but I the OTHER Vega player kept on doing that and I was
getting smacked by it becaues I was getting dumb and trying a walk up throw.
Or does the jab claws work the same as in CE.
Alain Hoang -Vega Meister-
hoa...@rpi.edu
"Slam dance till the cows come home..."
ONID
Dude, I think you just need to relax... but I think the actual cause of your being
thrown is the actual flight time and button pressing of the Barcelona Flying
back-breaker (or whatever you wanna call it)... myaybe he was even using the
strong button in the air (which has a speed priority over fierce)...
But personally, I like doing the BFB-B on people in wierd situations... like
Blanka in electricity and Chun Li in her Cyclone kick... I haven't actually tried
pulling Ken/Ryu out of the Hurricane Kick but I think it can be done...
Pulling Bison out of the Atomic Punch is by far the trickiest I think.. but I
get it on a 50/50 basis...
I also like to slam fellow Vega players back onto the wall they bounced off of
when they are doing the BFB-B with the simple ariel throw... it works beautifully.
Hurray to Capcom for increasing Vega's aerial throw priority...
Scenario:
Guile player jumps and attempts a kick: "Holy SH*T!!! You slammed me!"
Well... the only advice I have for you is to start the roll about a tick earlier
than you usually do ona downed opponent... when you are already mid-way through
a roll, it discourages most players and they just block..
--
Join the feudalists... free Somalia from the UN...
Let the Serbs play... Eternal turmoil... Save the environment, eradicate
the humans! -drk...@nmt.edu
Brian David Waak
>Dude, I think you just need to relax... but I think the actual cause of your being
>thrown is the actual flight time and button pressing of the Barcelona Flying
>back-breaker (or whatever you wanna call it)... myaybe he was even using the
>strong button in the air (which has a speed priority over fierce)...
Good point. This is true.
>But personally, I like doing the BFB-B on people in wierd situations... like
>Blanka in electricity and Chun Li in her Cyclone kick... I haven't actually tried
>pulling Ken/Ryu out of the Hurricane Kick but I think it can be done...
It can. It takes perfect timing, but it can be done. I LOVE doing this
to HK-happy Ryus/Kens, though I often miss the timing. I'm getting better
though.
>Pulling Bison out of the Atomic Punch is by far the trickiest I think.. but I
Wow! I really didn't think this was possible unless you catch him at the
beginning of it.
>get it on a 50/50 basis...
>I also like to slam fellow Vega players back onto the wall they bounced off of
>when they are doing the BFB-B with the simple ariel throw... it works beautifully.
Good defense, but again, need perfect timing.
>Hurray to Capcom for increasing Vega's aerial throw priority...
AMEN to that! I love the new aerial throw.
>Scenario:
Aren't the stunned looks on their faces just priceless? I can do this to
all but the ABSOLUTE best of the Guile masters around here. Scrubby Guiles,
of course, haven't got a prayer. :)
>Guile player jumps and attempts a kick: "Holy SH*T!!! You slammed me!"
>Well... the only advice I have for you is to start the roll about a tick earlier
>than you usually do ona downed opponent... when you are already mid-way through
>a roll, it discourages most players and they just block..
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(haven't found a good quote yet... :( )
Alain Hoang
|> Dude, I think you just need to relax... but I think the actual cause of your being
|> thrown is the actual flight time and button pressing of the Barcelona Flying
|> back-breaker (or whatever you wanna call it)... myaybe he was even using the
|> strong button in the air (which has a speed priority over fierce)...
Oh okay, yeah it was my button pressing. Okay.... lemme put it this
way, except for ONE Vega master back home and maybe the occasional lucky slam,
on CE I never was beaten to the Air Slam. So PERHAPS you are correct, but I do
think the HEIGHT might have priority on it as well. Since you probably (I know
I haven't) played enough HF Vega to figure this out I couldn't tell you and I
doubt neither could you. And I was using a STRONG throw. I don't FIERCE air
slam. Perhaps, it'd be nice if you wondered what button I was pressing to. I
rarely if ever use fierce for throws, although I might practice it to get my
throw timing better. I've played Vega since the dawn of CE, and I remember
many and know almost all of his nuances on CE. (Not that I can trash everyone
but I do know almost all his nunaces). So I think there are some other things
on the HF that have added in for Vega vs Vega airslam fests. Perhaps there
is the matter of WHO is higher, or the matter of button pressing but I do
know the timing for a throw pretty well. But perhaps you might be right but
you might be wrong on the same token.
|>
|> Guile player jumps and attempts a kick: "Holy SH*T!!! You slammed me!"
|>
|> Well... the only advice I have for you is to start the roll about a tick earlier
|> than you usually do ona downed opponent... when you are already mid-way through
|> a roll, it discourages most players and they just block..
|>
|> --
|> Join the feudalists... free Somalia from the UN...
|> Let the Serbs play... Eternal turmoil... Save the environment, eradicate
|> the humans! -drk...@nmt.edu
*ahem* This is where I'd really like to flame you just because I'm in a
bad mood but that would waste bandwitdth and be really immature. I started the
roll BEFORE the Ken player was ever up.. in fact I was rolling into him on the
way up when he fierced me out of it... By all tokens his fierce should have
NEVER came out and he should have been hit by roll hell. But obviously since
my grammar was so bad you couldn't understand that was what I said in the first
place. And if you think that's not messed up then something is definetely messed
now if it was a DP... heck I should have gotten blown away but it wasn't.
Alain Hoang
hoa...@rpi.edu
"Slam dance till you can slam no more"
Brian David Waak
> Hey, all you SF2 net people. Have you ever tried doing repeated
>short helicopter kicks to people while right next to them. I found this
>often works as a surprise maneuver. While right next to your opponent,
>execute a short cyclone kick that hits on the way up and then comes right
>back down with very little vulnerability time. During this, simply
>charge for the next cyclone kick. With the Hyper Edition's accelerated
>speed, this puts many people off-guard and unless they've seen this
>before, they will often take multiple hits. These hits do a lot of damage
>even when blocked.
> Any comments on this technique?
Yeah. Our local Chun Li master LOVES this technique and uses it a lot. I
haven't found a good way out of it, yet.
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
David Wei Chia
Brian Odom
>Dude, I think you just need to relax... but I think the actual cause of your being
>thrown is the actual flight time and button pressing of the Barcelona Flying
>back-breaker (or whatever you wanna call it)... myaybe he was even using the
>strong button in the air (which has a speed priority over fierce)...
YES! OK, before people start flaming me, let me explain something here.
I have also noticed that I will win more throws with the strong rather than
fierce, because I believe there is a speed priority somewhere. I can't define
speed priority (It's not how fast the throw is executed), it's something that
I can feel, though. A Chun Li player using strong for her throws will win a
lot of throws. This probably explains why I suck at throwing with Dhalsim
because I must throw with fierce whereas with Guile I can throw with the best
because I can use strong to throw.
jman...@eagle.wesleyan.edu
DON'T BE VEGA.
Forgive me, but I find that he's a useless leotard-wearing twit. Anyone out
there correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't have enough variety when it comes
to combos, and you can see his special attacks coming a mile away. His throws
are all he's got, and unless you're in a coma, you can escape these too.
To get back to the original post, I just think that the other player
got an ugly, lucky shot off of you. It happens a lot, especially if you're
mess up a special move - I've seen Ryu/Ken players knock out air-borne
opponents with a straight standing punch. It's nothing to worry about, I doubt
it can be done consistantly. I don't know what to tell you about the issue of
throw priority tho' (as you can see, I don't play Vega often).
YAJ
Seth James Killian
> Easy solution to the original poster's problem...
> DON'T BE VEGA.
>Forgive me, but I find that he's a useless leotard-wearing twit. Anyone out
>there correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't have enough variety when it comes
>to combos, and you can see his special attacks coming a mile away. His throws
>are all he's got, and unless you're in a coma, you can escape these too.
If you can say this about ANY character in HF, then you just
haven't seen anyone play them right yet. I know, this is an unreasonable claim, how do I know what you've seen, maybe I'm the
one who hasn't seen anything etc... Capcom has improved game balance
in HF, and although Vega has been toned down yet again (he gets my
vote for all time greatest character with his Classic abilities) he
can be very formidable. All of what you say about his special attacks
is true, you can see them a mile away. So it requires that much more
skill to use them effectively and not be wiped out. His normal attacks
have been improved slightly, but he is definitely weaker. You say "his
throws are all he's got...", if you have seen a master Vega, this is
all he needs. Vega, IMO, is the least mastered character, less even
than Dhalsim and Z. No one sees any potential in him, he appears very
two dimensional, and in fact, to a large degree, is so. But watching
a master (I am not one, and I have only ever seen one in my life (and
no, he doesn't go to UIUC :))) there is true beauty to him. The road
to mastering Vega is a very different one than most other characters,
in that he has no worthwhile combo's, and positioning seems to be
secondary as well. Vega masters are very subtle, and totally invisible
to non throwers (except for the fact that they keep losing to that
fu*king cheap guy :)). He has a whole side to him that no other character can even come close to with his wall climb, but, by in large,
this is underdeveloped and just seen as space between you and a backslam Ah well, enough Vega babble. But no one in HF is without value (kinda
makes me worry about the all purpose Ryu...).
> To get back to the original post, I just think that the other player
>got an ugly, lucky shot off of you. It happens a lot, especially if you're
>mess up a special move - I've seen Ryu/Ken players knock out air-borne
>opponents with a straight standing punch. It's nothing to worry about, I doubt
>it can be done consistantly. I don't know what to tell you about the issue of
>throw priority tho' (as you can see, I don't play Vega often).
I think that these difficulties could be resolved by taking
into account the fact that Vega "bounces" up and down very slightly
while rolling. I believe this is what makes for the discrepancies
wherein sometimes on move will hit him out of the roll, and othertimes,
will miss him completely or actually be hit by the roll. The HK is
a good example. I can occasionaly knock Vega out of his roll or claw
animation from the HK, whereas sometimes I'll just sail past without
touching him (if you get hit by the claw then you are timing the HK
wrong). Anyone else think he's bouncing??
Seth Killian
> YAJ
Mark Maestas
only good as a surprise move. Just block in defensive crouch as she comes up,
then hit:
Fierce
Ryu, Ken, Guile, Zangief, and Balrog
Strong or Forward
Honda
Roundhouse
Chun Li
I'm not sure about the other characters right now.
Mark "Terminator" Maestas
mae...@cs.arizona.edu
"Hasta la vista, baby." - [8^!
Frederick Tang
Are you surprised that I got that air slam off of you?
(heh heh ) sorry couldn't resist. One of the mall has 3 games
for a quarter and I get all my vega-ing done there..
point taken though.. ken players DPing are annoying as all
out doors!!!
-Frederick
Alain Hoang
YES! On the CE I've not fallen for an Air Slam for sooo long. Perhaps
because there's no real Vega player to test my mite in. I have to say Fred,
although your OTHER points on Vega could need brushing up on, your aerial slam
is excellent, in fact pitted against mine better. Heh, you'll have to trade
rounds with me.... I'll show you the nuances of taking on other characters...
although even I haven't gotten then nuances for the DP counters yet.
Alain Hoang
hoa...@rpi.edu
"Slam Dance till you can't anymore"
julius yang
>YES! OK, before people start flaming me, let me explain something here.
>I have also noticed that I will win more throws with the strong rather than
>fierce, because I believe there is a speed priority somewhere. I can't define
>speed priority (It's not how fast the throw is executed), it's something that
>I can feel, though. A Chun Li player using strong for her throws will win a
>lot of throws. This probably explains why I suck at throwing with Dhalsim
>because I must throw with fierce whereas with Guile I can throw with the best
>because I can use strong to throw.
Seconded. Maybe it's just an artifact of a misspent learning curve, but
in my early days of SF playing using strong to throw seemed faster. I
think I'll try two Chun Lis standing right next to each other, and get
someone to hold the joysticks towards each other. Then I'll hit strong
on 1P and fierce on 2P and see which one wins. If, after several throws,
the strong wins more often than the fierce, I'll know. Of course, someone
will claim my psychological bias causes me to hit strong before fierce,
but what the hell. :)
Of course, proper throwing is not the situation depicted above. I usually
throw after someone's missed a special move, and in that situation, there
is no way for the other guy to win unless you screw up the timing. I'll
admit in some cases it is harder to time the throw (Bison's torpedo/throw
comes to mind), but I feel in general counterthrowing comes easy to me. So
that allows me to say this: Strong has priority over fierce. Just like
some attacks hit with consistently higher priority (Dhalsim's standing
forward always hits Chun Li's standing roundhouse from a distance), some
throws come out faster. I think Dhalsim must have a fierce-only throw
because the range is enormous, thus making priority somewhat moot, provided
you are at the correct distance. His noogie seems to be faster than the
throw--the slide/noogie tick is easier to execute than slide/throw.
I've noticed the strong/fierce difference on Vega, Ken/Ryu, Dhalsim, Honda,
Guile, Chun Li, and Bison, virtually every character with throws of note.
Blanka, Sagat, and Balrog don't have throws of exceptional note (except
that Balrog's head butt seems to be about as fast as Blanka's bite),
while Zangief, of course, is on another plane of throws entirely.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
julius yang "Fill me with your little babies!"
jul...@sandman.cco.caltech.edu --"Peter's Friends", Kenneth Branagh
jul...@iago.caltech.edu
Christopher Jon Petit
>Seconded. Maybe it's just an artifact of a misspent learning curve, but
>in my early days of SF playing using strong to throw seemed faster.
I don't think so. I was fiddling around on SF2 (SNES) to test throw ranges,
and found that:
(1) Strong throws have the same range, no matter WHO's doing it (except
Zangief's SPD)
(2) Ditto for Fierce throws---but Fierce throws have a shorter range. Strong
throws seem to have a range of about 1 inch (e.g. you and opponent's feet can
be 1 inch apart for you to throw)
(3) I didn't get much of a chance to test out Zangief's throws, but I think
they all follow those same rules.
--
Quote of the Week: "People quote each other too much."
What am I? Heck, I dunno---if you have any ideas, bring them to me.
Storyline: He stood coolly, watching the lion crouched on top of the
sharp, pointed rocks. It seemed to glare at him. Then, it leaped forward...
Scott D Bradburn
Vega is great. On HF he is about as good as any character, and he's probably
the supreme Ken/Ryu/Sagat slayer. Vega is, though, one dimensional. He's got
a throw, and a pretty good one. (I'd give anything for the damage from CE
though...) I consider my overall playing style as a combination of counter
characters and out-guessing my opponents. That is, I play all the characters
with some modicum of skill, except Dhalsim, the one hole in my talents. So
when playing humans, I pick the character I feel is the most rounded, and has
the best chance of defeating my opponent. With lots of Ken/Ryu's in line
Vega or Balrog is the best choice for me. With only a little practice, any
Vega could develop into nightmares for the plethora of Ken/Ryu players that
hang out around the SF2 machines. Especially on CE with that throw damage.
Oh, and, if you're from a no-throw region: You're right, Vega sucks rocks.
julius yang
>jul...@cco.caltech.edu (julius yang) writes:
>>Seconded. Maybe it's just an artifact of a misspent learning curve, but
>>in my early days of SF playing using strong to throw seemed faster.
> I don't think so. I was fiddling around on SF2 (SNES) to test throw ranges,
Perhaps I should have made clear that I was talking about arcade SFII.
I have only played the SNES SFII about a half-hour, and that isn't enough
to form a definite opinion either way.
> (1) Strong throws have the same range, no matter WHO's doing it (except
>Zangief's SPD)
I disagree. Guile's strong throw has a FAR greater range than Sagat's.
Sagat's throw range is almost less than his body width, and if the opponent
crouches to boot, it seems harder to toss them (Maybe it's because they're
trying to footsweep me). Honda's strong throw (his only throw) has a short
range but it's fast, whereas Ryu/Ken have a longer range, somewhat lesser
priority strong throw. So in general what you said is not true. Maybe it
is on the SNES, I dunno.
> (3) I didn't get much of a chance to test out Zangief's throws, but I think
>they all follow those same rules.
I've tried for ages to get out the throws that require the joystick to be
diagonal, but it's difficult, since I'm conditioned to having the joystick
left or right. That limits me to two throws, even though he has several
more nifty throws o' doom that anyone around here rarely sees. I
don't see the point to using those extra throws playwise, though, since
they all do about the same damage.
Waldby
> [talk about how good/bad Vega is deleted]
>
> hang out around the SF2 machines. Especially on CE with that throw damage.
> Oh, and, if you're from a no-throw region: You're right, Vega sucks rocks.
Not really, considering how quickly he stuns. 2 or 3 hits and they see
stars. Then, if you can, execute a roll (assuming they allow that).
--
ope...@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Brian David Waak
> Easy solution to the original poster's problem...
> DON'T BE VEGA.
>Forgive me, but I find that he's a useless leotard-wearing twit. Anyone out
>there correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't have enough variety when it comes
>to combos, and you can see his special attacks coming a mile away. His throws
>are all he's got, and unless you're in a coma, you can escape these too.
You stand corrected. A master Vega can put so much variety into his moves
that the other guy NEVER knows what's coming. You just have to know your
combos well and be ready to experiment. You must be thinking of computer
Vega if you say he's too predictable, or not have any decent Vega players
around there. Correct me if I'm wrong. :)
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Brian David Waak
>jman...@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>
Bravo Seth! Someone else around here to defend Vega. I'm not _quite_ a
master yet, but I'm learning. Once I get the timing for counterthrowing
down I should be just about there.
>> To get back to the original post, I just think that the other player
>>got an ugly, lucky shot off of you. It happens a lot, especially if you're
>>mess up a special move - I've seen Ryu/Ken players knock out air-borne
>>opponents with a straight standing punch. It's nothing to worry about, I doubt
>>it can be done consistantly. I don't know what to tell you about the issue of
>>throw priority tho' (as you can see, I don't play Vega often).
> I think that these difficulties could be resolved by taking
> into account the fact that Vega "bounces" up and down very slightly
> while rolling. I believe this is what makes for the discrepancies
> wherein sometimes on move will hit him out of the roll, and othertimes,
> will miss him completely or actually be hit by the roll. The HK is
> a good example. I can occasionaly knock Vega out of his roll or claw
> animation from the HK, whereas sometimes I'll just sail past without
> touching him (if you get hit by the claw then you are timing the HK
> wrong). Anyone else think he's bouncing??
He is. I've noticed this several times, but I didn't really think too much
about it... neat theory, though. I'll check it out sometime.
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
> Seth Killian
>> YAJ
Alex V. Lebedev
>Yo Alain,
> Are you surprised that I got that air slam off of you?
>(heh heh ) sorry couldn't resist. One of the mall has 3 games
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey, could you tell me where this is?
*
/
(
)
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/ \ / \ "*RUST MAGIC: Krylon Interior ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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| |\______/|| moisture and helps prevent rust." -Krylon Corp.
-\ \_____ //-----------------------------------------------------------------
???- _____ -???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
jman...@eagle.wesleyan.edu
> [talk about how good/bad Vega is deleted]
>
> Vega is great. On HF he is about as good as any character, and he's probably
> the supreme Ken/Ryu/Sagat slayer. Vega is, though, one dimensional. He's got
> a throw, and a pretty good one. (I'd give anything for the damage from CE
> though...) I consider my overall playing style as a combination of counter
> characters and out-guessing my opponents. That is, I play all the characters
> with some modicum of skill, except Dhalsim, the one hole in my talents. So
> when playing humans, I pick the character I feel is the most rounded, and has
> the best chance of defeating my opponent. With lots of Ken/Ryu's in line
> Vega or Balrog is the best choice for me. With only a little practice, any
> Vega could develop into nightmares for the plethora of Ken/Ryu players that
> hang out around the SF2 machines. Especially on CE with that throw damage.
> Oh, and, if you're from a no-throw region: You're right, Vega sucks rocks.
My point exactly :). I believe Vega is strictly a beginner's character
for this very reason. He's got excellent reach on the ground, a fair amount of
air superiority, and not enough variety of standard moves, combos, traps, etc.
which would normally be a problem to a newcomer to the SF2 series. And being
that Vega's overall game plan is one-dimensional, the fact that he relies so
heavily on his throw, makes the job of your opponent that much easier.
Whenever I play against Vega players, his backdrop is my primary concern, and
there are only so many ways he can do this to you 1. the direct approach of
walking up to you and doing so, 2. jumping over you and throwing, 3. that old
routine of jab-jab-throw, and 4. his special flying manuever (and 5. possibly a
medium slide without connecting and then a throw, but I'm not sure). As a
respectable Ryu player, I can easily get out of these with a jab DP (3., 4.) or
a well-timed roundhouse sweep (1., 2., 5.). I hardly consider Vega a
"nightmare", even here where throws are becoming a regular part of one's
strategy.
And BTW Seth, Ryu is _still_ the all purpose character :).
YAJ
Sima Yi
>> Any comments on this technique?
>
> Yeah. Our local Chun Li master LOVES this technique and uses it a lot. I
> haven't found a good way out of it, yet.
This is a decent tactic in Ryu vs. Blanka. It's difficult for Blanka to time
the Roll/Ball when it's a short HK and often times, Ryu can get off a combo
in back of Blanka.
A Chun Li player I know uses an interesting technique in HF. When Chun Li
employs the foot stomp (as I do), she quite vulnerable afterwards. However,
according to him, after the foot stomp, Chun Li can charge up for the HK and
surprise the jumping roundhousing opponent. It defends against opponents
looking for the usual free hit.
--
//Lui Sieh |How seldom we weigh our neighbor in the same
Mail: si...@panix.com |balance with ourselves. -- Thomas A. Kempis
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: These are my opinions...but others may share them as well
Brian Odom
>pet...@nuge112.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit) writes:
>>jul...@cco.caltech.edu (julius yang) writes:
>> (1) Strong throws have the same range, no matter WHO's doing it (except
>>Zangief's SPD)
>I disagree. Guile's strong throw has a FAR greater range than Sagat's.
>Sagat's throw range is almost less than his body width, and if the opponent
>crouches to boot, it seems harder to toss them (Maybe it's because they're
>trying to footsweep me). Honda's strong throw (his only throw) has a short
>range but it's fast, whereas Ryu/Ken have a longer range, somewhat lesser
>priority strong throw. So in general what you said is not true. Maybe it
>is on the SNES, I dunno.
So do I. Guile's strong throw is NASTY!!! I love it. Has excellent range.
But, it seems to me that Honda's throw range is huge and it seems fast.
>> (3) I didn't get much of a chance to test out Zangief's throws, but I think
>>they all follow those same rules.
Probably so.
>I've tried for ages to get out the throws that require the joystick to be
>diagonal, but it's difficult, since I'm conditioned to having the joystick
>left or right. That limits me to two throws, even though he has several
>more nifty throws o' doom that anyone around here rarely sees. I
>don't see the point to using those extra throws playwise, though, since
>they all do about the same damage.
I find it MUCH easier to throw diagonal when throwing defensively because you
can keep the joystick in defensive crouch and counter tick without moving the
stick. Now I only use strong for throws, so when counter ticking I always get
that throw where Zangief slams his opponent to the ground over his shoulder
really fast. I also, always use strong when doing an SPD.
Axl
>In article <1lu1p7...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, sc...@athena.mit.edu (Scott D Bradburn) writes:
> My point exactly :). I believe Vega is strictly a beginner's
>character for this very reason. He's got excellent reach on the
>ground, a fair amount of air superiority, and not enough variety of
>standard moves, combos, traps, etc. which would normally be a problem
>to a newcomer to the SF2 series. And being that Vega's overall game
>plan is one-dimensional, the fact that he relies so heavily on his
>throw, makes the job of your opponent that much easier.
I have to disagree a bit here. Yes, it's true that Vega does
not have the variety of moves like the other chars, and it is fairly
simple to execute the ones he does posess. But the only time his game
plan is one-dimensional is when the person playing is one-dimensional.
When I challenge someone and choose Vega, I usually hear something
along the lines of "I can waste Vega no prob", followed a few minutes
later by "What the Fuck?", after they lose.
His main strength is his unpredictability. Vega's few moves
can be executed in a Wide variety of ways, making him a very
multi-dimensional character.
--
-Axl @)-->--- /\ /\ j_he...@oz.plymouth.edu
"Its a critical solution, \ / jher...@nyx.cs.du.edu
and the East Coast got the blues.\/ tarc.m...@lambada.oit.unc.edu
Its a mass of confusion, like the lies they sell to you."-W. Axl Rose
Mark Maestas
>In article <C2GuD...@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>(Brian David Waak) writes:
>>dala...@owlnet.rice.edu (David Wei Chia) writes:
>>>[doing repeated short Chun Li HK kicks as a neato tactic deleted]
>>> Any comments on this technique?
>
>employs the foot stomp (as I do), she quite vulnerable afterwards. However,
>according to him, after the foot stomp, Chun Li can charge up for the HK and
>surprise the jumping roundhousing opponent. It defends against opponents
>looking for the usual free hit.
Doing Chun Li's HK in the air after a foot stomp isn't usually a good idea.
It's very easy for Ryu/Ken/Guile/Blanka/some others to just jump up behind
you as you are starting the HK and aerial Fierce you. Also it isn't very hard
to time a Fireball to hit her on the way down from it. Also, unless you
have an early lead and don't go into a corner, it's "okay" against Zangief.
If he's too close or in a position to be right next to you as you come down,
a Fierce punch to your head takes care of the HK real quick.
Also, in my experiments with getting an aerial HK with Chun Li, I found
that you can either double tap a kick button OR just hold down the button
as you are in the air. (except I haven't figured out the proper timing to get
a Roundhouse HK to start up using the hold-down method, but the Short and
Forward work just fine using hold-down). For those of you that missed my
explaination, you can execute Chun Li's aerial HK starting from the ground
by just charging down and then going to Forward Flip and when you are at the
height you want to execute the HK, either
1)Hit a kick button twice
or 2)hold-down the kick button (see above)
Brian David Waak
>In article <1lu1p7...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, sc...@athena.mit.edu (Scott D Bradburn) writes:
>> [talk about how good/bad Vega is deleted]
>>
>> Vega is great. On HF he is about as good as any character, and he's probably
>> the supreme Ken/Ryu/Sagat slayer. Vega is, though, one dimensional. He's got
>> a throw, and a pretty good one. (I'd give anything for the damage from CE
>> though...) I consider my overall playing style as a combination of counter
>> characters and out-guessing my opponents. That is, I play all the characters
>> with some modicum of skill, except Dhalsim, the one hole in my talents. So
>> when playing humans, I pick the character I feel is the most rounded, and has
>> the best chance of defeating my opponent. With lots of Ken/Ryu's in line
>> Vega or Balrog is the best choice for me. With only a little practice, any
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Vega could develop into nightmares for the plethora of Ken/Ryu players that
>> hang out around the SF2 machines. Especially on CE with that throw damage.
>> Oh, and, if you're from a no-throw region: You're right, Vega sucks rocks.
> My point exactly :). I believe Vega is strictly a beginner's character
>for this very reason. He's got excellent reach on the ground, a fair amount of
>air superiority, and not enough variety of standard moves, combos, traps, etc.
>which would normally be a problem to a newcomer to the SF2 series. And being
>that Vega's overall game plan is one-dimensional, the fact that he relies so
>heavily on his throw, makes the job of your opponent that much easier.
If you see Vega as one-dimensional and relying totally on his throw, then
you've never seen a good Vega player. Good Vega players ARE a Ryu/Ken night-
mare. As Seth said, Vega's moves aren't "out in the open" and easy to see
like Ryu or Ken combos. A good Vega player has to rely on intuition and
knowledge of his opponent to be subtle and sneaky, getting in nasty moves
where his opponent least expects them.
>Whenever I play against Vega players, his backdrop is my primary concern, and
>there are only so many ways he can do this to you 1. the direct approach of
>walking up to you and doing so, 2. jumping over you and throwing, 3. that old
>routine of jab-jab-throw, and 4. his special flying manuever (and 5. possibly a
>medium slide without connecting and then a throw, but I'm not sure). As a
>respectable Ryu player, I can easily get out of these with a jab DP (3., 4.) or
>a well-timed roundhouse sweep (1., 2., 5.). I hardly consider Vega a
>"nightmare", even here where throws are becoming a regular part of one's
>strategy.
> And BTW Seth, Ryu is _still_ the all purpose character :).
Ryu may be the all-purpose character, but your countermoves to Vegas are
hardly all-purpose. The jab DP is easily countered by a Roundhouse slide,
if Vega even feels like countering it. What would you do if he just keeps
jabbing. You may be fast with the DP, but nobody's fast enough to use it
to get out of constant jabs WITHOUT a throw stuck in. Also, he can jab-jab-
block, knowing you'll do a DP that he can counter, or even jab-jab-flip
if he really wants to avoid the corner. As for the walljump, if Vega wall-
jumps as you throw a FB, he can easily get in range to hit you with an air
suplex or flying claw before you're even out of the fireball position! I
am, of course, speaking of HF here- I concede that Vega's not quite fast
enough to pull this off on CE. For the Roundhouse sweep, Vega can roll
you right after and you'll take several damaging hits, if you do it at
the wrong time, but let's assume you did it in one of the situations you
mentioned, meaning that it is well timed. If Vega's trying to walk up to
you and throw, then he can flip when you start your sweep and he'll get
away, or block low suddenly. I admit both of these require perfect timing
on his part, but they can be done. Second: if he's jumping in just to
throw you, then there isn't much he can do about a Roundhouse sweep,
EXCEPT hit you from the air, and throw you after that. If he connects with
a Roundhouse or Fierce coming down your recovery time is too long for you
to get the sweep off. Result: suplex. And last, I'm assuming you mean
Roundhouse slide, not medium, since there is no Forward slide for Vega,
just a trip. If he goes for this and misses, he can't do anything about a
Roundhouse sweep, but that's what he deserves for missing it. Why not try
counterthrowing for variety. It does more damage.
Vega IS a viable character on HF if played correctly. The key words are,
of course, "if played correctly." As has been said at least twice before,
Vega's moves are easy to learn, but it takes great skill to properly use
those moves to smash an opponent like Vega used to on Classic SFII.
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
> YAJ
>
Scott D Bradburn
|>
|> My point exactly :). I believe Vega is strictly a beginner's character
|> for this very reason. He's got excellent reach on the ground, a fair amount of
|> air superiority, and not enough variety of standard moves, combos, traps, etc.
|> which would normally be a problem to a newcomer to the SF2 series. And being
|> that Vega's overall game plan is one-dimensional, the fact that he relies so
|> heavily on his throw, makes the job of your opponent that much easier.
|> Whenever I play against Vega players, his backdrop is my primary concern, and
|> there are only so many ways he can do this to you 1. the direct approach of
|> walking up to you and doing so, 2. jumping over you and throwing, 3. that old
|> routine of jab-jab-throw, and 4. his special flying manuever (and 5. possibly a
|> medium slide without connecting and then a throw, but I'm not sure). As a
|> respectable Ryu player, I can easily get out of these with a jab DP (3., 4.) or
|> a well-timed roundhouse sweep (1., 2., 5.). I hardly consider Vega a
|> "nightmare", even here where throws are becoming a regular part of one's
|> strategy.
|> And BTW Seth, Ryu is _still_ the all purpose character :).
|>
|> YAJ
|>
3) I never let anyone out of jab jab throw with a DP. I'll keep you in block
until *I* want you to get out on CE with the standing jab walk forward standing
jab repeat. If I let you out and you do a DP it's throw city. On hyper fighting
I've got to crouch so you can come out of block, you still won't DP my claw
often enough to make up for throw damage when you DP thin air when I jab/jab
(wait) throw. As opposed to jab/jab/throw or jab/throw, etc. There's still lots
of mixing it up. I rarely use the barcelona backdrop on decent Ken/Ryus it's
too easy to counter. As far as well timed roundhouses go, don't miss, I'll throw
you for it, or stick a strong or fierce claw between your eyes. If you ever
fireball you get a roundhouse kick plus a strong claw, maybe two, etc. (Okay,
I admit sometimes I don't react to fireballs fast enough, but it's still a
tough match, regardless of how much I want to use my throws, because if I can't
hit you, you can't hit me, then it's still a draw.
Brian David Waak
>Strong or Forward
> Honda
>Roundhouse
> Chun Li
Sorry. Perhaps I should clarify what I meant. I'm a Vega player. I meant I
haven't found a good way out with Vega. I have found a few ways out, just
not ways I find "good." For instance, a slide will get you away, but then
Chunners can turn around and hit you as you get up. With other characters,
like the ones you mentioned, I usually have no problem.
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Crying Freeman
>In article <C2MMG...@panix.com> si...@panix.com (Sima Yi) writes:
>>In article <C2GuD...@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>>(Brian David Waak) writes:
>>>dala...@owlnet.rice.edu (David Wei Chia) writes:
>Doing Chun Li's HK in the air after a foot stomp isn't usually a good idea.
>It's very easy for Ryu/Ken/Guile/Blanka/some others to just jump up behind
>you as you are starting the HK and aerial Fierce you. Also it isn't very hard
Speaking of this, I found out that Ken/Ryu are too short to aerial
fierce Chun Li. I thought it was kinda funny... (I was so used to being
able to jump up and chop with Guile, and Ryu looked so lame leaping
up and missing with his fierce.)
>to time a Fireball to hit her on the way down from it. Also, unless you
>have an early lead and don't go into a corner, it's "okay" against Zangief.
>If he's too close or in a position to be right next to you as you come down,
>a Fierce punch to your head takes care of the HK real quick.
Obviously, if Chun Li goes into the corner, Ryu/Ken can whack her
with a DP... Of course, Ryu/Ken can probably DP even if she doesn't
go into the corner if they are quick enough (esp. Ken...)
--
Che-Yuan Wang
cw2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
cyw...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu