Guile-Knee-Thrust tick
Soobum Cho
Since no one wants to read my long-and-boring-previous post on the Knee Thrust,
maybe this one will get more of a response since its more to the point (hope-
fully...). I've been experimenting with using the Knee Thrust to tick.
This is the tick that I used:
1) Follow Jab SB
2) Knee Thrust blocking opponent about 2-body-lenghths away.
3) Wait for block stun, then throw.
At first, I forgot to consider the block stun and I would start tapping
immediately after the Knee Thrust which would screw up Guile's already-pathetic
throw range. When I waited for the block stun before throwing, it worked
very well vs. the computer (weren't many people around) and pretty well vs.
people....definitely over half, and maybe three-fourths. I think I tried it
too much though. The thing I'm trying to figure out is whether the Knee-Thrust
tick is a difficult tick to escape. If it is at least as difficult to escape
as Ryu's short/throw tick, then I think its a useful tool since lots of people
are not that good at counterthrowing.
-Soobum
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu
Naval Ravikant
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
> The thing I'm trying to figure out is whether the Knee-Thrust
> tick is a difficult tick to escape.
Not by any stretch of the imagination. It's really reall easy to
counterthrow out of that. The stupid knee sucks, and is another example
of the Capcom programmers' anti - Guile attitude. They probably all
play Ryu:)
- Naval
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and
despair!"
Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu
Eu-Ming Lee
>Since no one wants to read my long-and-boring-previous post on the Knee Thrust,
>maybe this one will get more of a response since its more to the point (hope-
>fully...). I've been experimenting with using the Knee Thrust to tick.
>This is the tick that I used:
>1) Follow Jab SB
>2) Knee Thrust blocking opponent about 2-body-lenghths away.
>3) Wait for block stun, then throw.
This is a pathetic tick. If you accidentally do a knee thrust into a
blocking opponent, you will get thrown. If you intentionally do it to
tick, don't be surprised if you get thrown out of it 100% of the time.
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
Friends don't let friends use Windows.
Lord Baal
anyways ??!??!? The rare times that knee thrust will work
is if both of you playing do not expect it and you accidently
get a throw.... where do you come up with this stuff :) !??!?
Lord Baal......
Soobum Cho
> Lord Baal......
Well it was worth a try. I guess I got the wrong impression of the Knee-tick's
usefulness from how well it worked on the cpu and the few people I tried it
out on. Its still fun to try on people who haven't seen it before....it usuallyworks the first time as a surprise (on people who don't throw that much I guess)
-Soobum
Soobum Cho
>sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
Today, I stayed on the machine for about 15 games or so using the Knee-tick and
I didn't get thrown out of it even once. I agree that it is a pathetic tick
against people who know how to counterthrow, but for everyone else, it works just fine used judiciously. I know that one of the people I played today is
"okay" or "pretty good" (depends on your standards..I think he is "pretty good")and I don't think he even thought to throw me out of the Knee-tick....
One more thing: if the Knee-tick is "pathetic" then what is the SB-walk-in-
throw tick? I don't like to try that one very often against people who know
how to counterthrow....so does that make it "pathetic" also?
-Soobum Cho
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu
Naval Ravikant
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
> One more thing: if the Knee-tick is "pathetic" then what is the SB-walk-in-
> throw tick? I don't like to try that one very often against people who know
> how to counterthrow....so does that make it "pathetic" also?
>
If you always throw after the SB, it is. But the whole point is to
throw often enough that your opponent will watch for the throw. Then,
you can mix it up with the spinning backfist, upside down roundhouse,
throw, and block as they do a DP or something, and then throw, etc..
cho soobum
>In article <1993Apr13.2...@news.uiowa.edu>
>sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
>> One more thing: if the Knee-tick is "pathetic" then what is the SB-walk-in-
>> throw tick? I don't like to try that one very often against people who know
>> how to counterthrow....so does that make it "pathetic" also?
>>
> If you always throw after the SB, it is. But the whole point is to
>throw often enough that your opponent will watch for the throw. Then,
>you can mix it up with the spinning backfist, upside down roundhouse,
>throw, and block as they do a DP or something, and then throw, etc..
>
> - Naval
Exactly. Mixing it up is what makes all of Guile's ticks work.
Eu-ming said that a blocked-Knee Thrust means a free throw for the opponent
which is analagous to a missed DP or Flash Kick. Assuming this is true
(blocked Knee means easy throw for opponent), I think that is something else to
bitch and moan about. I mean, the Knee Thrust took off a measly 8% in CE
and I bet it takes off 3% or 4% in HF. I don't think that the Knee is
enough of a commitment (considering its damage) to warrant a free throw if it
is blocked.
-Soobum
sc...@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu
Sung H. Yi
>eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Eu-Ming Lee) writes:
>>sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
Actually, if you're timing's good, it's not a pathetic tick. In fact, it's
the hardest tick to counter in Guile's arsenal. I might go so far as to
say, if done right, it's uncounterable (but we don't know what done right is
now do we?).
Seth James Killian
>In article <1993Apr13.2...@news.uiowa.edu>
>sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
>> One more thing: if the Knee-tick is "pathetic" then what is the SB-walk-in-
>> throw tick? I don't like to try that one very often against people who know
>> how to counterthrow....so does that make it "pathetic" also?
>>
> If you always throw after the SB, it is. But the whole point is to
>throw often enough that your opponent will watch for the throw. Then,
>you can mix it up with the spinning backfist, upside down roundhouse,
>throw, and block as they do a DP or something, and then throw, etc..
>
> - Naval
Wrongo. The knee tick is _still_ pathetic. The main reason
is that the fucking thing has a DELAY afterwards! "Umm, hold on,
just give me a sec... AHA! (opponent is thrown)". "Mixing it up
does not help with this sorry tick. I would consider it somewhat
a kin to backfist, then throw. Just plain silly against people
who are in any way thinking "throw".
Crying Freeman
>Naval.R...@dartmouth.edu (Naval Ravikant) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr13.2...@news.uiowa.edu>
>>sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
>Eu-ming said that a blocked-Knee Thrust means a free throw for the opponent
>which is analagous to a missed DP or Flash Kick. Assuming this is true
>(blocked Knee means easy throw for opponent), I think that is something else to
>bitch and moan about. I mean, the Knee Thrust took off a measly 8% in CE
>and I bet it takes off 3% or 4% in HF. I don't think that the Knee is
>enough of a commitment (considering its damage) to warrant a free throw if it
>is blocked.
Unfortunately, it is. If I ever screw up and a knee pops out for whatever
reason (bad joystick, screwed up razor), unless I'm playing a scrub, I'll
get thrown every time... (Or if they're really good, comboed.)
There is a delay on the knee, so unless your opponent is asleep, you
are putting yourself at their mercy.
>
>-Soobum
>sc...@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu
>>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and
>>despair!"
>> Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu
--
Che-Yuan Wang
cw2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
cyw...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Lord Vader
:Unfortunately, it is. If I ever screw up and a knee pops out for whatever
:reason (bad joystick, screwed up razor), unless I'm playing a scrub, I'll
:get thrown every time... (Or if they're really good, comboed.)
:There is a delay on the knee, so unless your opponent is asleep, you
:are putting yourself at their mercy.
Heheh... Yeah, this is pretty much correct. You get so used to throwing
here, that if the guy even comes near you unintentionally, you'll get tossed.
I have seen people try to use this knee thrust/throw tick... didn't work;
can you say combo? Sure. How about counter? Uh huh. Even if you have the
reflexes of a baby, you still should be able to hit jab and get a hit in
there, maybe even a fierce (ooohhh:). I have a chance to put the combo in
there, because I'm so shocked when I see them coming at me, I just _react_
and throw them. No two ways about it, almost automatically... If I knew it
was coming, a combo certainly would be a nice gift for his final suicide
mission, especially vs. Ken...
--
Caine Schneider (Lord Vader) ca...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Are you man enough to fight with me?" -Guile
cho soobum
blocked Knee. Obviously, throwing is the norm at uiuc. I'm not saying that
it isn't allowed here, but most people just don't seem to know how and when
to do it here. That's obviously why I didn't get counterthrown once the
other day and I must have done it at least once for each of the 15 or so games
I stayed on the machine. I played the same three people for all of those
games so I'm surprised they didn't catch on. I did tried to do the Knee-tick
when I smelled fear, but even then, they should have caught on.
Could the reason possibly be that they tried to counterthrow too early, thus
screwing up their throw range? I pressed the button right when I thought I
could throw....
-Soobum
Lord Baal
The reason that they couldnt throw or didnt catch on is that they suck !!!
there is no ifs or buts about it...there is no such thing as knee tick
why cant you get it through your thick skull !??!?!?!!!?!??!
Lord Baal......
Eu-Ming Lee
>Okay, so against anyone who knows how to throw, Guile is thrown after a
>blocked Knee. Obviously, throwing is the norm at uiuc. I'm not saying that
>it isn't allowed here, but most people just don't seem to know how and when
>to do it here. That's obviously why I didn't get counterthrown once the
>other day and I must have done it at least once for each of the 15 or so games
>I stayed on the machine. I played the same three people for all of those
>games so I'm surprised they didn't catch on. I did tried to do the Knee-tick
They must be morons, I guess. As a general rule, don't do the same
successful tactic three times in any one round. And try to keep from
using it unless you really need to during the game. If by some odd
chance, someone catches me with something new and uses it successfully
two times in a row, by the third time, that person will get hurt. I
think this rule applies to anyone who's good at SF. Two's the limit.
Beyond that, it becomes a 'pattern'.
>when I smelled fear, but even then, they should have caught on.
>Could the reason possibly be that they tried to counterthrow too early, thus
>screwing up their throw range? I pressed the button right when I thought I
>could throw....
No, they can throw much earlier than you can. It's probably because
they're just no-throws, is all. That's the assumption I make if someone
misses an obvious throw. You can usually identify a no-throw by playing
style very early into the game. And at a certain point, they'll do
something (miss a throw opportunity or whatever) which will trigger a
flag in my head which says, "Ah... definite no-throw. Adjust tactics
accordingly."
Try doing a razor kick near them so that you fall outside of their combo
range but within their throw range. See what they do. If they throw,
then they're not no-throws. If they sweep or do nothing, they're
probably no-throws. If that's the case, you'll have to go elsewhere
to practice your ticks. Sometimes, no-throws are so adamant about their
'rules', they won't even TRY to counter, because in their minds, it's
simply impossible to counter a tick. It may seem amazing after SF2
has been out nearly 3 years, but some people still gasp when I get out
of their ticks.
>-Soobum
Naval Ravikant
skil...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
> >> One more thing: if the Knee-tick is "pathetic" then what is the SB-walk-in-
> >> throw tick? I don't like to try that one very often against people who know
> >> how to counterthrow....so does that make it "pathetic" also?
> >>
>
> > If you always throw after the SB, it is. But the whole point is to
> >throw often enough that your opponent will watch for the throw. Then,
> >you can mix it up with the spinning backfist, upside down roundhouse,
> >throw, and block as they do a DP or something, and then throw, etc..
> >
> > - Naval
>
> Wrongo. The knee tick is _still_ pathetic. The main reason
> is that the fucking thing has a DELAY afterwards! "Umm, hold on,
> just give me a sec... AHA! (opponent is thrown)". "Mixing it up
> does not help with this sorry tick. I would consider it somewhat
> a kin to backfist, then throw. Just plain silly against people
> who are in any way thinking "throw".
>
I agree the knee-thrust tick does not work (as you pointed out,
because of the delay). What I am defending is the slow sonic / walk in
technique, which may or may not be a tick depending on how you end it.
That technique, I think, is an essential part of Guile's arsenal, and
that's why I hate playing Guile in no-ticking zones against Ryu and
Sagat
- Naval
Brian Odom
First you say that most people in your area don't know how to counter. You
said the knee tick works since most players can't counterthrow effectively.
Now you say that they do know about countering and they're doing it too early?
what??
I wish I could come over there and see this actually work. Doesn't work at all
here.
Ken: ha-dou-ken
Guile: sonic boom
(Guile charges and Ken jumps in, and Guile goes for a forward kick)
Guile: knee thrust
Guile: "What the fuck???"
Ken: hhhrrrrrrrr!!!!!!
(or better yet the standard 6-7 hit combo)
(Ken: strong, strong DP) 2-3 hits
(Guile: I'm dizzy!!!!!!! Hit me more!!!!)
(Ken: fierce, fierce DP) 3-4 hits (if you add jumping butt kick)
(Guile: uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh *plop* *dead*)
Do you actually intentionally use that knee. All Guile players here hate that
move. It only serves one main purpose and that's to kill someone with it when
they are dizzy and have no life left. :D
Eu-Ming Lee
> I agree the knee-thrust tick does not work (as you pointed out,
>because of the delay). What I am defending is the slow sonic / walk in
>technique, which may or may not be a tick depending on how you end it.
>That technique, I think, is an essential part of Guile's arsenal, and
>that's why I hate playing Guile in no-ticking zones against Ryu and
>Sagat
That's my favorite tick, because it's the easiest to counter. The
Guile-boys at Champaign know not to try this on me, EVER. Right, guys?
;)
> - Naval
>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and
>despair!"
> Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu