Help! Balrog vs. Sagat & Bison vs. Tick-manic Guile
Malapitan, Rodney
I was batting 95% with my Balrog until this Sagat shows
up. He's got me down to 30% I just have too much of a hard time
vs. his Sagat. If anyone was gonna bring me down, I thought it
would be a Zangief or some Guile-God, but noooo. It's a Sagat.
I just can't figure it out. Anyone got any dominating way to
dust a Sagat?
Also, I was doing fine w/my Bison until this guy I know
does the ol' sonic boom - throw tick.
I JUST COUDN'T COUNTER!!!!
He was telegraphing his intentions, I KNEW he was gona
go for the tick, but I just couldn't counter! I tried the
whack-the-button counter and the wait-for-that-exact-moment-and-hit
the-button technique. With anyone else, I've got a chance.
HELP!!!!
- RPM
ticked senseless.
Philip John Stroffolino
> I was batting 95% with my Balrog until this Sagat shows
> up. He's got me down to 30% I just have too much of a hard time
> vs. his Sagat. If anyone was gonna bring me down, I thought it
> would be a Zangief or some Guile-God, but noooo. It's a Sagat.
> I just can't figure it out. Anyone got any dominating way to
> dust a Sagat?
What did this Sagat player do?
HF Balrog can TAP through both high and low tiger fireballs...
Sagat's hands stick out really far & he has Ken-like recovery time, so
you should be able to mash him pretty well if he is fireball happy.
Other than that, don't be too agressive with charge punches, since his
Tiger Uppercut and Tiger Knee attacks hurts like heck...
and if he jumps at you, make sure to do a dashing uppercut early, or not
at all...
Phil
P.S. I'm surprised you haven't met any evil Honda players to frustrate
your Balrog, yet... :^)
Malapitan, Rodney
>> I just don't know anymore.
>> I was batting 95% with my Balrog until this Sagat shows
>> up. He's got me down to 30% I just have too much of a hard time
>> vs. his Sagat. If anyone was gonna bring me down, I thought it
>> would be a Zangief or some Guile-God, but noooo. It's a Sagat.
>> I just can't figure it out. Anyone got any dominating way to
>> dust a Sagat?
>
>What did this Sagat player do?
>
>HF Balrog can TAP through both high and low tiger fireballs...
>Sagat's hands stick out really far & he has Ken-like recovery time, so
>you should be able to mash him pretty well if he is fireball happy.
He's fireball happy, WHEN HE'S ACROSS THE SCREEN!!!!
When I'm within TAP range, he changes his game. TigerKnee-Throw,
fakeout-uppercut, etc.
Aarrgh. :(
>
>Other than that, don't be too agressive with charge punches, since his
>Tiger Uppercut and Tiger Knee attacks hurts like heck...
If I'm not agressive, he pushes me to the back and nails me w/standing
fierce punches when I jump.
>and if he jumps at you, make sure to do a dashing uppercut early, or not
>at all...
When he jumps at me, I've had my TAP set and can't let go of the buttons.
If I don't hold down the buttons, he'll play it cautious but is definitely
more bold with shooting fireballs. What's a Balrog jumping fierce compared
to a fierce Tiger Uppercut? With that in mind, he always catches up with
me if I get a lead. I hate this guy more than any Guile I've crushed.
>
>Phil
>
>P.S. I'm surprised you haven't met any evil Honda players to frustrate
>your Balrog, yet... :^)
Those guys get slaughtered by K/R and don't stay on the machine long enough
for me to face them. Anyways, there's only 2 I've faced, and I'm about
50%
- RPM
tanx
Philip John Stroffolino
>Philip John Stroffolino <ps...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>P.S. I'm surprised you haven't met any evil Honda players to frustrate
>>your Balrog, yet... :^)
>torpedo. And what good does it do them? 1/4 cm of damage when I block,
>and 3 cm to them when I TAP them.
And lest you forget, quite a bit of damage to YOU if it hits :^)
-- significantly more than a round one TAP as any Balrog who tries to
TAP a downed Honda will find out...
A torpedo will also counter any Balrog charging or jumping attack.
...not that offensive Honda torpedos are troublesome - worse comes to
worse they can be easily jabbed (standing)
>Then there are those who think they can inch up with the HHS or get me
>trapped in the corner with the HHS. Sheesh.
Sheesh?!?
Depends what you mean by "inch up" -- a hand-happy Honda is very
effective against Balrog. If you know of a decent counter, lemme know!
If you try to jump in he can just waddle back a step or two... I've had
mixed success with trying to poke at The Hands of Honda with a ducking
punch from a distance - sometimes I'll hit him, sometimes I get hit. It
depends on the speed of the hands, so I doubt it could be timed
consistantly. If you let him get into sure hit-range and peg him with a
ducking roundhouse, you both get hit and Honda makes out every time
(even though he is knocked off his feet).
Or better yet, how about a way for Balrog to get in on a Honda player
that does lots of ducking jabs?
I usually *do* end up with my back in the corner, BTW :^) I don't think
it is a good idea to "press the attack" against Honda...
Fat boy irks me sometimes...
Next time I play this one Honda player who has mastered dancing with the
hands, I intend to try running away while holding down the punch
buttons. If he torpedos, I'll TAP through with a little luck; If he
jumps I'll dashing uppercut; if he hands, I'll try to trade with a
mid-level TAP... Sounds simplistic, but maybe worth a try...
Phil
Sarah Kay Ellerman
>>Philip John Stroffolino <ps...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>P.S. I'm surprised you haven't met any evil Honda players to frustrate
>>>your Balrog, yet... :^)
>eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Eu-Ming Lee) writes:
>>Evil Honda players are so amusing. They ALWAYS think they can do that
>>torpedo. And what good does it do them? 1/4 cm of damage when I block,
>>and 3 cm to them when I TAP them.
>Honda can do the same thing same thing using the torpedo if Balrog tries
>a TAP or charge punch. A well-timed strong works as well (useful when
>Balrog tries one after a blocked torpedo).
>I think the evil Honda method is to get ahead in energy, then wait for
>Balrog to come to you (or just wait from the start).
>>Then there are those who think they can inch up with the HHS or get me
>>trapped in the corner with the HHS. Sheesh.
>Those aren't the evil ones.
Yeah, I know. The evil ones always leg sweep you to deth. And when I try
to hit them, they just hit me back, and I sometimes they block but I cant
block those legsweeps. Sometimes I block the other ones when I am
trying to run away from them, but it never werks on the legsweeps.
LEGSWEAPS ARE CHEEP!
>Keith
>--
>kmi...@cs.rutgers.edu
Eu-Ming Lee
>Honda can do the same thing same thing using the torpedo if Balrog tries
>a TAP or charge punch. A well-timed strong works as well (useful when
>Balrog tries one after a blocked torpedo).
I've never met a honda who could react to Balrog's rushing straight
(as opposed to queer??) punch. However, I can react and TAP the torpedo.
>I think the evil Honda method is to get ahead in energy, then wait for
>Balrog to come to you (or just wait from the start).
Balrog can do the same thing.
>Keith
>kmi...@cs.rutgers.edu
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
"I was shipwrecked with this frog who was constantly testing my faith. He
made outrageous demands. I ignored them. One day I strapped on my boat to
freedom and surfed into shore. He's not touching me anymore."
Philip John Stroffolino
>kmi...@village.rutgers.edu (Keith Miyake) writes:
>>Honda can do the same thing same thing using the torpedo if Balrog tries
>>a TAP or charge punch. A well-timed strong works as well (useful when
>>Balrog tries one after a blocked torpedo).
>I've never met a honda who could react to Balrog's rushing straight
>(as opposed to queer??) punch. However, I can react and TAP the torpedo.
But isn't that your skill (or the Honda player's lack of skill), rather
than a Balrog advantage?
Honda has a wider margin of error - a Honda player doesn't have to
torpedo at the last second to make out.
Balrog's fists may have a slightly greater reach than Honda's extension
in a headbutt, but Honda's fierce torpedo covers distance more rapidly
than Balrog's charge punches.
>>I think the evil Honda method is to get ahead in energy, then wait for
>>Balrog to come to you (or just wait from the start).
>Balrog can do the same thing.
But can he? Choose Balrog. Find someone (anyone - a scrub will do) to
play as Honda and tell them to mindlessly pound on all the punch buttons
at the same time, so that Honda's 100-hands start up, and the speed
keeps varying. Now tell him to advance erratically (i.e. forward two
steps, back one), but to always waddle backwards anytime you jump at
him. It may be in his best interests to do a defensive headbutt or
throw if knocked down or hit high, but this should not be a problem.
I would be very grateful if anyone found a consistent method of dealing
with this tactic. Honda's hands are very vulnerable, but Balrog (with
his vulnerable ducking punches) can't really take advantage of this.
Sometimes a Balrog player can get lucky and hit Honda between slaps with
a dashing jab or ducking punch, or hit him cleanly with the tip of the
ducking roundhouse punch (the part that can cleanly hit a shocking
Blanka), but IMO these events are outside the realm of human
reflexes/timing...
This "inching forward" *is* "evil" :^)
Phil
Eu-Ming Lee
>Honda has a wider margin of error - a Honda player doesn't have to
>torpedo at the last second to make out.
I disagree. It's easier for me to let go of a button as Balrog than
to move the joystick forward and hit a button as Honda. It's very easy
to catch Honda out of the torpedo with a TAP. It's much harder to hit
Balrog as he's rushing for a straight punch (assuming you're not
predictible).
I've seen some Honda's do it, but I get much more hits in with my TAPs
than they do with their torpedos.
>Balrog's fists may have a slightly greater reach than Honda's extension
>in a headbutt, but Honda's fierce torpedo covers distance more rapidly
>than Balrog's charge punches.
Disagreed. The startup time for Honda's torpedo is very long compared
to Balrog's rushing straight punch. Basically, as soon as I do the
punch, it's already hit you. I only do it from short range. At long
range, you can simply react to Honda and be defensive.
>But can he? Choose Balrog. Find someone (anyone - a scrub will do) to
>play as Honda and tell them to mindlessly pound on all the punch buttons
>at the same time, so that Honda's 100-hands start up, and the speed
>keeps varying. Now tell him to advance erratically (i.e. forward two
>steps, back one), but to always waddle backwards anytime you jump at
>him. It may be in his best interests to do a defensive headbutt or
>throw if knocked down or hit high, but this should not be a problem.
No, a scrub will not do. Even master Honda's will have a tough match.
If you know the distances of Balrog's attacks, you can hit Honda out
of the HHS whenever you want. I don't know why Balrog would want to
jump in on Honda. So he's doing the HHS. Big deal. Just for your
moment and his him out of it with a rushing straight punch, crouching
strong, or jump straight up and roundhouse. If you're at a bad distance,
jump back.
>This "inching forward" *is* "evil" :^)
If a Honda is inching forward, I can hit him cleanly out of the HHS
every time with the crouching roundhouse. If he's inching closer from
a 'bad' range. I'll just block and he'll bounce back to a range I can
handle. The HHS is really no problem at all.
>Phil
Philip John Stroffolino
>I write:
>>Honda has a wider margin of error - a Honda player doesn't have to
>>torpedo at the last second to make out.
>I disagree. It's easier for me to let go of a button as Balrog than
>to move the joystick forward and hit a button as Honda. It's very easy
>to catch Honda out of the torpedo with a TAP. It's much harder to hit
>Balrog as he's rushing for a straight punch (assuming you're not
>predictible).
By "wider margin of error" I was refering to Honda not having to time
the torpedo - if a Balrog player's timing is even a tiny bit off he'll
get nailed.
>I've seen some Honda's do it, but I get much more hits in with my TAPs
>than they do with their torpedos.
>>Balrog's fists may have a slightly greater reach than Honda's extension
>>in a headbutt, but Honda's fierce torpedo covers distance more rapidly
>>than Balrog's charge punches.
>Disagreed. The startup time for Honda's torpedo is very long compared
>to Balrog's rushing straight punch. Basically, as soon as I do the
>punch, it's already hit you. I only do it from short range. At long
>range, you can simply react to Honda and be defensive.
"Covering distance more rapidly" was in reference to maximum horizontal
speed...
I wasn't thinking about startup time (actually I was thinking about a
Balrog attacking with a TAP, which has even slower startup time then a
Honda headbut *sheepish grin*)
But suppose you *are* reasonably far away... He do you get close enough
to do a short range rushing straight punch? At a distance any charging
attack can be reacted to by a Honda player, and if you stand up and walk
forward (losing the charge for the dashing uppercut) there are distances
where Honda can safely leap at you (following up with a hand smacking or
a vertical charge swoop...)
>>But can he? Choose Balrog. Find someone (anyone - a scrub will do) to
>>play as Honda and tell them to mindlessly pound on all the punch buttons
>>at the same time, so that Honda's 100-hands start up, and the speed
>>keeps varying. Now tell him to advance erratically (i.e. forward two
>>steps, back one), but to always waddle backwards anytime you jump at
>>him. It may be in his best interests to do a defensive headbutt or
>>throw if knocked down or hit high, but this should not be a problem.
>No, a scrub will not do. Even master Honda's will have a tough match.
>If you know the distances of Balrog's attacks, you can hit Honda out
>of the HHS whenever you want.
>I don't know why Balrog would want to jump in on Honda.
You will knock him down with a jump punch if he's doing the fierce
(fastest) hands. There is also a distance where you can hit him high
safely (when doing the slower hands).
>So he's doing the HHS. Big deal. Just for your moment and his him
>out of it with a rushing straight punch, crouching strong, or jump
>straight up and roundhouse. If you're at a bad distance, jump back.
>>This "inching forward" *is* "evil" :^)
>If a Honda is inching forward, I can hit him cleanly out of the HHS
>every time with the crouching roundhouse. If he's inching closer from
>a 'bad' range. I'll just block and he'll bounce back to a range I can
>handle. The HHS is really no problem at all.
I believe you are simplifying the scenario too much (or you are a god :^)
When the hand speed is constantly shifting (via random buton flailing),
it it very hard to time an attack to hit him between slaps.
When he advances erratically (partly via the joystick and partly because
Honda advances at different rates with different hand speeds) it is very
hard to knick the tip of the hands cleanly with the tiny bit of
invulnerability of Balrog's gloves (actually it is in front of the
glove).
When I go up against such a Honda, we both get hit a lot. Not fun.
Phil