Capcom USA doesn't know Poison is a man; Final Fight Revenge proves it
Chris
The treatment Poison is given in this game is definitely that of programmers who were unaware of the fact that Poison is a man. The voice actor used for the character is quite obviously female. In one of his victory poses, Poison -- referring to his opponent -- exclaims, "What a man!" However, Poison never uses this vocalization after a Poison-vs-Poison match.
But the ultimate proof of CAPCOM USA's gender-ignorance has to be Poison's Super Move, Poison Kiss. My earlier posting regarding this technique was based on a Japanese fansite description that was not completely accurate. In this Super Move, Poison blows a kiss at his opponent. This causes a large, heart-shaped projectile to float from Poison to his opponent. The projectile moves very slowly, and has no more range than the average character's Strong Punch. If the projectile scores a hit, 4 images of Poison flash across the screen in rapid succession. Returning to the normal match-view, Poison's opponent is knocked back and down, only to stand up, dizzied momentarily, with 5 tiny hearts circling his head (and about an inch less health in his vitality gauge).
The sequence of four images does not involve the opponent at all. The images are simply 3D polygon illustrations of Poison in a variety of poses, situations, and costumes. There are 7 different images in all, presented in one of 2 different sequences. The aforementioned Japanese fansite had indicated that one sequence was used when the technique hit an opponent on the ground, and the other when a midair opponent was hit. This is incorrect. Either sequence may appear no matter where the opponent is when struck, and the use of one sequence or the other appears to be totally random. Here are descriptions of the two sequences, and the images used in each (in order of appearance):
Sequence 1
Image 1: Poison in his usual outfit (minus handcuffs, whip, and
hat); running hands thru hair; standing beneath several pink-maroon spotlights.
Image 2: Poison in his usual outfit (minus handcuffs and whip);
eyes closed; sucking on a grape popsicle suggestively; blue background
with large, white snowflakes.
Image 3: Bird's-eye view of Poison in bathtub (naked, of course);
bubble bath conceals the anatomical portions one would expect; background
of swirly, blue water and bubbles.
Image 4: Poison doing his impersonation of Marilyn Monroe's sidewalk
vent publicity photos for The Seven-Year Itch; wearing a slightly
pink-tinted version of Marilyn's dress.
Sequence 2
Image 1: Worm's-eye view of Poison in his usual outfit "assuming
the position" against a brick wall; looking back over his right shoulder;
illuminated by 2 spotlights -- one red, one blue (police cruiser lights,
I presume).
Image 2: Poison in a red bikini and matching heels stretched
out on a red&white striped beach towel; head supported by his right
hand; a beverage sits at the left end of towel; a red, toothily-grinning
crab ogles Poison from the right corner of the image.
Image 3: A naked Poison lies face-down on red, satin sheets;
head supported by folded arms; lower legs pointing up; rear end covered
by another sheet; light pink background with floating red hearts.
Image 4: Same as Sequence 1, Image 1.
Given that CAPCOM USA is unaware of the truth about Poison's gender, it's not surprising that they created images of Poison like these. But for those gamers who know that Poison is indeed male, the images in the Poison Kiss technique are either completely hysterical or downright creepy (for me, they were both).
Appearance:
Poison's costume is pretty much unchanged from Final Fight,
with the addition of a brown, leather whip which hangs from his right hip
(his handcuffs are worn on the left hip). Poison also appears to
have had another boob job, as he seems markedly chestier than before.
The 2P color version is an attempt to duplicate the look of palette-swap
that was Roxy (although the name under the vitality gauge still says "Poison"):
bright orange hair instead of pink, yellow top instead of white, black
denim cutoffs instead of blue, and yellow heels instead of red. The
selection of 1P or 2P color scheme (using P or K Buttons to select) does
not affect the Poison Kiss images -- all the images use the 1P color
scheme.
Match Start Pose:
Poison, whip stretched between both hands, says "Ready?," and snaps
the whip.
Chouhatsu [Provocation, aka "taunt"]:
Poison stands, arms akimbo, and momentarily sways his hips from side
to side.
Victory Pose 1:
Poison, arms akimbo, says "What a man!," twirls once, then poses
with right hand on hip, left hand behind head.
Note: if Poison's opponent was another Poison, he will say "Piece
o'cake!" during this pose.
Victory Pose 2:
Poison adjusts/hefts his breasts, says "Piece o'cake!," places left
hand on hip, brushes hair back with right hand, then places right hand
on hip.
Poison Kiss Victory Pose:
If a successful Poison Kiss takes the last of his opponent's vitality
gauge, the image sequences are not displayed. Rather, Poison performs
a new victory pose, in which he holds onto a vertical metal pole (like
those used found in topless nightclubs) with his right hand, gyrates twice,
then spins around the pole twice, coming to a stop near the bottom of the
pole, hanging onto it with left arm and both legs, right arm and head thrown
back.
Time Out Pose:
The characters in Final Fight Revenge do not seem to have special
poses for either Time Out victories or losses. Rather, the loser
collapses into their normal, prone, defeated position while the winner
assumes one of their normal Victory Poses.
Tsuujouwaza [Normal Technique] of note:
* Jumping Strong Kick
This kick was designed to resemble Poison's trademark forward-leap-somersaulting-kick
from Final Fight.
Tokushuwaza [Special Techniques] of note:
* Lever-forward Strong Punch
* Lever-downforward Strong Punch
* Midair Lever-downback, -down, or -downforward Strong Punch
In each of these techniques, Poison uses his whip for a quick strike.
Nagewaza [Throw Technique]:
* Close to opponent, Lever-forward or -backward + SP
Poison grabs his opponent by the shoulders, then repeatedly thrusts
his face at the opponent's face/neck/shoulder area, biting each time.
Poison concludes the technique by shoving the opponent away and down with
the palms of both hands, then wipes his mouth with the back of his right
hand, as the opponent drops to his knees and falls forward to the ground.
Hissatsuwaza [Sure-Kill Techniques]:
* Cat Claw {f-d-df + P}
Poison performs a rising uppercut -- essentially, his version of a
Shouryuuken. A Weak Cat Claw hits once, a Strong Cat
Claw hits three times.
Vocalization: "Cat Claw!"
* Handcuff {d-df-f + P}
Poison flings his handcuffs (surrounded by a pink aura) at the opponent.
If not blocked, a handcuff icon will float above the opponent's head briefly;
meanwhile, they cannot move or Guard. Poison does not have to retrieve
the handcuffs to perform this attack again; he can simply perform it over
and over, in spite of the fact that he seems to only ever wear one set
of 'cuffs. A Weak Handcuff has shorter range and a slower
flight speed than a Strong Handcuff; the duration of the opponent-restraining
effect is the same for both versions, however.
Vocalization: "Don't move!"
* Whip {f-df-d-db-b + P}
Poison lashes straight across the screen with his whip. The Japanese
fansite I used as my source for my earlier post gave the name of this technique
as "Sheep & Whip" -- I have no idea where he got this name (arcade
marquis/inlay cards, perhaps), but the Saturn manual lists the technique
name as simply "Whip." A Weak Whip has a shorter range than
a Strong Whip, and only hits once; the Strong version hits twice.
Vocalization: "Yah!"
Super Moves:
Damn, I hate the fact that CAPCOM actually used the CAPCOM USA term
"Super Move" -- "Super Combo" just sounds alot less lame to me. Anyway...
* Poison Kiss {d-df-f-d-df-f + P}
(described in unnecessarily great detail above)
Vocalization: ??? (I'm still trying to figure this one out --
any of you who actually bought this game have any guesses?)
* Thunder Whip {d-df-f-d-df-f + K}
Poison leaps straight up, spinning, while twirling his whip around
himself -- basically, his version of Ken's Shinryuuken Super Combo.
Unfortunately, (a) the opponent is knocked down before the technique is
only half-finished, (b) the technique only hits 4 times, and (c) "button-mashing"
does nothing to increase the number of hits. Against midair opponents,
Thunder Whip hits 3 times.
Vocalization: "Thunder Whip!"
************************
Anyhow, this whole game is really poorly put together. The fact that any game with 3D graphics this bad would have noticeable loadtime in spite of the fact that it uses the Saturn 4meg RAM card (!) is in excusable. There's even loadtime in between the rounds of a match (!) -- even if both players choose the same character! However, so many of the attacks and vocalizations are so goofy, silly, or downright stupid, that the game is just hysterical. This is not a game to buy and then play on your own -- this is one to gather a group of friends around, and just laugh yourselves sick til around 2am (y'know that time of night when everyone's been awake too damn long and just about everything's funny? there ya go...).
Just thought those of you involved in the previous Poison threads might find this momentarily entertaining (or at least distracting).
Chris
Staff Writer for the Dash Taisen HomePage (http://www.dashtaisen.com/)
"Yeah, she talks like a woman / but she shakes like a man"
"She's My Man" by Sigue Sigue Sputnik [from the album, The First
Generation]
(let's face it -- quoting Aerosmith's "Dude Looks Like a Lady" for
this post's sig would've been just too predictable)
Chris
Nagewaza [Throw Technique]:
* Close to opponent, Lever-forward or -backward + SP
Poison grabs his opponent by the shoulders, then repeatedly thrusts his face at the opponent's face/neck/shoulder area, biting each time. Poison concludes the technique by shoving the opponent away and down with the palms of both hands, then wipes his mouth with the back of his right hand, as the opponent drops to his knees and falls forward to the ground.
* Handcuff {d-df-f + P}
Poison flings his handcuffs (surrounded by a pink aura) at the opponent. If not blocked, a handcuff icon will float above the opponent's head briefly; meanwhile, they cannot move or Guard.
Super Moves:
* Thunder Whip {d-df-f-d-df-f + K}
Poison leaps straight up, spinning, while twirling his whip around himself -- basically, his version of Ken's Shinryuuken Super Combo. Unfortunately, (a) the opponent is knocked down before the technique is only half-finished, (b) the technique only hits 4 times, and (c) "button-mashing" does nothing to increase the number of hits. Against midair opponents, Thunder Whip hits 3 times.
**********************************
When I saw Final Fight Revenge in an Akihabara game center during my New Year's vacation to Japan, the endings were in Japanese. It looks as though the endings on the Saturn edition are in English (in spite of my copy being the Japanese release). Anyway, here's Poison's ending, just to add heebie-jeebies to the creeps:
[Poison stands in one of his Victory Poses; "POISON WINS" still appears along the bottom of the screen; the screen darkens, then fades to black to allow easier reading of the following white-lettered text:]
Piece of cake indeed, yet not so sweet.
Fearful of serving time, Poison and friends devise a plot to frame
Cody for their crimes.
[Fade to Ending Illustration with white-lettered text below it; the illustration is of the interior of Cody's jail cell. He wears the prison uniform he wore in ZERO3, with his hands manacled. He sits on the edge of a cot or bench, leaning his arms on his legs, his head slumped forward. Light streams in thru the bars of a narrow window, above and behind him. In the foreground is Poison (viewed from midriff up) in his usual outfit (unaffected by 1P or 2P color choice), clutching a bouquet of lilies and glancing back sadly over his right shoulder at Cody:]
Poison:
"He'll never love anyone but Jessica anyway."
"Unless..."
**********************************
I found it amusing that the initial text reads "Poison and friends," rather than "Poison and his friends" or "Poison and her friends" -- no "in-writing" evidence of CAPCOM USA's gender-opinion in Poison's ending at least (not like that opinion isn't completely obvious from the way Poison was handled in every other aspect of Final Fight Revenge).
The funniest part of Poison's ending for me, though, was the idea that Poison and friends (i.e., Mad Gear) would ever be "fearful of serving time." This is a laugh riot -- like the Mad Gear members haven't all served prison time before. Like the Mad Gear members wouldn't immediately assume top positions in the criminal hierarchy of any prison to which they might be sentenced. Like the majority of normal criminals in the real-world United States don't know how to work the prison system to the point that most of them no longer fear a prison sentence. Apparently CAPCOM USA knows about as much about the gender of their company's characters as they do about the current state of the U.S. penal system.
Chris
Staff Writer for the Dash Taisen HomePage (http://www.dashtaisen.com/)
"Well, they're gonna laugh out loud 'cause they're gonna get away /
And I have to tell you kids that supercrime pays"
"Super Crook Blues" by Sigue Sigue Sputnik [from the album "Dress for
Excess"]
Black Dragon
I think they should change the character into a woman because #1 Most
people think it's a woman and #2 if Poison were included in a future
Capcom game, it would be too laughable having a transvestite character.
He/She has a cool style of fighting, but I think Capcom really needs to
make him/her female in order to make the character appealing rather than
creepy.
Jonathan Winkler
Black Dragon wrote:
Please, there are enough appealing female characters. I like the fact that
this creeps everyone out. I just wish the character were more developed,
either way.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Winkler
-=jonw...@concentric.net=-
REMOVE HATE and SPAM to email me
"To be positive: to be mistaken at the top of one's voice."
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
magius eternal
>
>
> Black Dragon wrote:
>
> > Personally, even if the story is true about Poison originally being a man,
> > I think they should change the character into a woman because #1 Most
> > people think it's a woman and #2 if Poison were included in a future
> > Capcom game, it would be too laughable having a transvestite character.
> > He/She has a cool style of fighting, but I think Capcom really needs to
> > make him/her female in order to make the character appealing rather than
> > creepy.
>
> Please, there are enough appealing female characters. I like the fact that
> this creeps everyone out. I just wish the character were more developed,
> either way.
I just wish this topic would die! =D
--magius
Warewolf at Large
Look, I'm going to try and settle this arguement once and for all and I hope
that *someone* here will listen.
Poison is a *woman*, not a man, not a transvestive, but a nicely-drawn
representation of a fantasy-but-ought-to-be-flesh-and-blood *WOMAN*.
The only times she and Roxy were changed into men was for the SNES versions of
Final Fight, and this was because Nintendo thought the original sprites were
too racy.
If you want proof, download MAME, download the *original* Final Fight ROM, and
play it.
And for goodness sake, don't bring this subject up again. The last time it was
on here, it got well into the realm of stupid.
Signed,
Warewolf at Large
P.S. Before anyone flames me over this, I apologize for my brashness, but when
a group of supposedly intelligent people starts aruging over the gender of a
game sprite, one has to wonder what some parts of the world coming to.
Handgunner
news:sorcer-E-120...@ip-216-222-14-22.salmoninternet.com...
> Personally, even if the story is true about Poison originally being a man,
> I think they should change the character into a woman because #1 Most
> people think it's a woman and #2 if Poison were included in a future
> Capcom game, it would be too laughable having a transvestite character.
> He/She has a cool style of fighting, but I think Capcom really needs to
> make him/her female in order to make the character appealing rather than
> creepy.
Just a quick question, Dragqueen....have you managed to make yourself
invisible yet?
After all, you seem to think you can.
Please respond.
--
Dragqueen in his own words:
"I must say this is the most clear and informative book I have seen yet on
practicing Magick. This is the *only* book I've seen thus far that gives an
explaination of how one can achieve *psysical* invisibility..."
--------------------------------------------
Regards,
Handgunner
John P. Hayes
<Pine.LNX.4.04.100041...@c792390-a.scllg1.pa.home.com>,
Jenn Dolari <dol...@dragondata.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, magius eternal wrote:
>
>> I just wish this topic would die! =D
>
>I wanna know how it started and what the proof is.
>
>Jenn
>[Who just extended the thread by two months]
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
> CHUN LI - CAMMY - ROSE - SAKURA - KARIN - JUNI - JULI - RAINBOW MIKA
> Strength. Beauty. We have no equal in the kingdom.
> dol...@dragondata.com http://www.dragondata.com/~dolari
> SONYA - KITANA - MILEENA - JADE - SINDEL - SHEEVA - TANYA
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>
Well the proof is above in Ultima's post. A programmer who claims this
whole thing was fact from the ealiest design phase. I suppose one must
accept that he is telling the truth. Seems to me that they have yet to
drop any good hints to his "transvestitism" in America. Was FFRevenge
ever release in America? If not then there is nothing pointing to this
alternative lifestyle in any other game. Unless you count him being
"male-ified" in the SNES cartridge which was done, according to
Nintendo, to avoid people being horrified at men beating up women. If
that wasn't it, then why was it done? To let us know Poison was a man?
That would be probably their best attempt at letting U.S. audiences know
of it.
I suppose this is a bit cynical but it seems to me he is just saying
that this was what he intended. I know it is rather rude of me but I
can't help the feeling I get. Sort of like he is taking the credit for
making a Transvestite character ahead of his time or something. Sorry.
--
Visit the Campaign Against VillageTronic homepage at
http://home.pacbell.net/jp_hayes/avt.html
If you've ever been burned by unkept promises please visit our site.
Jenn Dolari
Ultima
> I can't believe this came up again. {:(
> Look, I'm going to try and settle this arguement once and for all and I hope that *someone* here will listen.
>
> Poison is a *woman*, not a man, not a transvestive, but a nicely-drawn
> representation of a fantasy-but-ought-to-be-flesh-and-blood *WOMAN*.
And for the LAST time, you are WRONG. As freaky as it sounds, she/he was
ORIGINALLY male by *Capcom of Japan*, and as far as they've let on,
Poison is still male. Chris gives not only the Jpn. books but the
freakin' PAGE NUMBERS that proves this here:
http://x28.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=594114350.2&CONTEXT=955689649.1872494615&hitnum=14
Here's another post, where Chris so kindly (heh) gives te description of
Poison that appeared in Fighting Game Daihyakka in 1993:
http://x28.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=594120107&CONTEXT=955689649.1872494615&hitnum=15
> The only times she and Roxy were changed into men was for the SNES versions of Final Fight, and this was because Nintendo thought the original sprites were too racy.
That was convenient, but sadly, you're wrong.
> If you want proof, download MAME, download the *original* Final Fight ROM, and play it.
What for? We all know Poison looks female (hell, Poison actually DID
look like a man with breasts in that game - the real realm of
questionability comes from Poison in Second IMpact/Third Strike). Now
are you going to contradict the people who freakin' CREATED Poison?
This discussion is closed. If it makes you feel better, just pretend
Poison is female and be done with it.
[snip]
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"How do you "perfect" gameplay? That's like saying music has
been "perfected" over thousands of years. Fun is a matter of
taste." - Jeff Williams 25/10/99
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
Ethan Hammond
play some DOA2 where everyone is nice and normal. :)
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Warewolf at Large
>
>Warewolf at Large wrote:
>
>> I can't believe this came up again. {:(
>
>> Look, I'm going to try and settle this arguement once and for all and I hope
that *someone* here will listen.
>>
>> Poison is a *woman*, not a man, not a transvestive, but a nicely-drawn
>> representation of a fantasy-but-ought-to-be-flesh-and-blood *WOMAN*.
>
>And for the LAST time, you are WRONG. As freaky as it sounds, she/he was
>ORIGINALLY male by *Capcom of Japan*, and as far as they've let on,
>Poison is still male. Chris gives not only the Jpn. books but the
>freakin' PAGE NUMBERS that proves this here:
Does Chris have scans of these pages? (None of the shops in my area carry these
magazines.) And do they present the original artwork?
Whether Poison and Roxy were *originally concieved* as male characters is
irrelevant. The point is in the original Final Fight arcade game and every
other game Poison's been in, she has been presented as a full-fledged *female*
character. The 'bodyshape', the voice, the movements, every medium used in her
appearances has shown her to be a female character. I have seen and heard the
proof for myself, my friend, but I am willing to look over your proof and
triple check your sources.
>> The only times she and Roxy were changed into men was for the SNES versions
of Final Fight, and this was because Nintendo thought the orig
>
>That was convenient, but sadly, you're wrong.
Have it your way, my friend. I have proof to back this up, and it doesn't
involve EGM either. :)
>> If you want proof, download MAME, download the *original* Final Fight ROM,
and play it.
>
>What for?
Because if the only version you're basing this opinion on is the SNES version,
then you're basing it on half a game. Capcom had to make some changes to bring
this game to the SNES and this included removing Guy and changing the female
sprites to male ones. This back-up file, and sprites it contains, proves my
point, and provides a nice piece of nostalgia to boot.
> We all know Poison looks female (hell, Poison actually DID
>look like a man with breasts in that game - the real realm of
>questionability comes from Poison in Second IMpact/Third Strike). Now
>are you going to contradict the people who freakin' CREATED Poison?
No, but I am going to question the report and the person who translated it.
Did either of you play the original arcade version? Or are you even going to
bother on the off-chance that you'll be labelled as fools?
If you want to discuss this further, we can do it via e-mail, but no matter
what we say, this discussion will still be at a stalemate. You will still
believe that Poison is male, and I will still know that the character in the
original was female. Neither one of us is going to convince the other of
anything different, so out of respect for the various regulars who post and the
newbies who are just discovering this group, let's drop this ridiculous
subject, and not bring it up again.
I mean, why start a real-life war over the gender of a not-so-alive video game
sprite?
Signed,
Warewolf at Large
Ultima
>Warewolf at Large wrote:
NOte: I tried sending this to your e-mail, but it bounced. SO
unfortunately I'm continuing this ridiculous thread on the newsgroup...
>:(
>> I can't believe this came up again. {:(
>> Look, I'm going to try and settle this arguement once and for all
and I hope that *someone* here will listen.
> >> Poison is a *woman*, not a man, not a transvestive, but a nicely-drawn representation of a fantasy-but-ought-to-be-flesh-and-blood *WOMAN*.
> >And for the LAST time, you are WRONG. As freaky as it sounds, she/he was ORIGINALLY male by *Capcom of Japan*, and as far as they've let on,
> >Poison is still male. Chris gives not only the Jpn. books but the
> >freakin' PAGE NUMBERS that proves this here:
> Does Chris have scans of these pages? (None of the shops in my area carry these magazines.)
And do they present the original artwork?
I doubt he has scans, but he has the magazines (apparently, unless he
has a photographic memory, which I doubt). Maybe you can ask him to scan
them pages, but I won't...
> Whether Poison and Roxy were *originally concieved* as male characters is irrelevant. The
point is in the original Final Fight arcade game and every other game
Poison's been in, she has
been presented as a full-fledged *female* character. The 'bodyshape',
the voice, the
movements, every medium used in her appearances has shown her to be a
female character.
You obviously haven't seen or read enough manga/anime. I've seen quite a
few examples of characters that were male when they looked and were
presented as female otherwise. The Jpn. seem to have this obsession with
she-males/hermaphrodites (did you know, for example, that Lilith from
Vampire Saviour was originally supposed to be a hermaphrodite? Capcom
chickened out and made her female at the last minute).
> I have seen and heard the proof for myself, my friend, but I am willing to look over your
proof and triple check your sources.
Have you seen the magazines in question yourself? I haven't, but Chris
has traditionally been trustworthy and very thorough with the Jpn.
source stuff that he presents. NO reason why to doubt him now. Besides,
he's not the only one to confirm this: A while back, Nick Rox (formerly
of Gamefan) said the same thing: Capcom of Japan says Poison is male.
> >> The only times she and Roxy were changed into men was for the SNES versions of Final
Fight, and this was because Nintendo thought the orig
> >That was convenient, but sadly, you're wrong.
> Have it your way, my friend. I have proof to back this up, and it doesn't involve EGM
either. :)
What proof? If you mean visual,
> >> If you want proof, download MAME, download the *original* Final Fight ROM, and play it.
> >What for?
> Because if the only version you're basing this opinion on is the SNES version, then you're
basing it on half a game.
PLease. I don't even remember POison and Roxy in the SNES version (I
thought they were taken out, period, not made into completely new
sprites). I remember the arcade version very well (and yes, I have it
for Callus - runs CPSI games a lot better than MAME), and I know exactly
what POison looked like then.
> Capcom had to make some changes to bring this game to the SNES and this included removing Guy
and changing the female sprites to male ones. This back-up file, and
sprites it contains,
proves my point, and provides a nice piece of nostalgia to boot.
I don't need it. I know what they did to the SNES version, and it still
has nothing to do with this.
BTW, I think removing GUy had more to do with Capcom not enough ROM
space to have 3 characters than anything else...
> > We all know Poison looks female (hell, Poison actually DID
> >look like a man with breasts in that game - the real realm of
> >questionability comes from Poison in Second IMpact/Third Strike). Now
> >are you going to contradict the people who freakin' CREATED Poison?
> No, but I am going to question the report and the person who translated it. Did either of you
play the original arcade version?
Yes. And as I said before, that's not even a good thing for your case,
as Poison in both her in-game art and her character art (what little
there is) for Final Fight could actually pass for a transvestite with
breasts. POison in the SF3 series, on the other hand, is another story.
I see Poison in HUgo's 2I ending and I still can't believe she's male...
> Or are you even going to bother on the off-chance that you'll be labelled as fools?
The translation could be wrong, but why would two completely different
people (Chris and Nick Rox) screw it up at totally different times? In
fact, it was at least 3 people, beacuse I saw in a FAQ (I forget which -
I think it was an old 2I Hugo FAQ) a looooong time ago that said Poison
was actually male, and that was before I heard anyone else confirm it. I
thought the guy was full of shit personally, and was shocked to hear it
from Nick Rox at the time that it was true.
NOw Chris went ahead and printed the game mags down to the page numbers.
He lists 3 different mags (note that one of them pre-dates the Super
Famicom itself, so that throws your whole theory out) that all say the
same thing. NOw for you to be right, either Chris, Nick Rox and that
whoever was involved with the Hugo FAQ (and keep in mind that all of
these people work independently of each other, or at least no evidence
is present to suggest that they know each other) can't translate for
shit, or all 3 Jpn. game mags are all wrong. Neither is likely, so while
it's possible they're wrong, it's *highly* unlikely. Hence why I throw
my opinion behind them, even though I don't like it.
BTW, I wouldn't mind if we were wrong here. I mean, I WANT Poison to be
female, but hey, if she's male, well that's the fucked-up Japanese. for
you (note I still refer to POison as as "her" and "she", even though
technically I should be referring to POison as a "him" and "he"). She
still looks female, so it's best to just not think about it. As far as
I'm concerned. POison is a hottie, regardless of gender. She's fictional
anyway, so who cares?
> If you want to discuss this further, we can do it via e-mail, but no matter what we say, this
discussion will still be at a stalemate. You will still believe that
Poison is male, and I
will still know that the character in the original was female.
Oh, so now you "know" the character was originally female, huh? What
arrogance. You assume that every time you see something that's female,
it actually IS female? You haven't been to enough of the wrong places
then... Have you ever heard of something called a "she-male"..? Look it
up, and try not to be too disgusted...
[snip]
--
U
Black Dragon
(Warewolf at Large) wrote:
> In article <38F6AC6E...@rit.edu>, jas...@rit.edu says...
> >
> >Warewolf at Large wrote:
> >
> >> I can't believe this came up again. {:(
> >
> >> Look, I'm going to try and settle this arguement once and for all and
I hope
> that *someone* here will listen.
> >>
> >> Poison is a *woman*, not a man, not a transvestive, but a nicely-drawn
> >> representation of a fantasy-but-ought-to-be-flesh-and-blood *WOMAN*.
> >
> >And for the LAST time, you are WRONG. As freaky as it sounds, she/he was
> >ORIGINALLY male by *Capcom of Japan*, and as far as they've let on,
> >Poison is still male. Chris gives not only the Jpn. books but the
> >freakin' PAGE NUMBERS that proves this here:
>
> Does Chris have scans of these pages? (None of the shops in my area
carry these
> magazines.) And do they present the original artwork?
>
> Whether Poison and Roxy were *originally concieved* as male characters is
> irrelevant. The point is in the original Final Fight arcade game and every
> other game Poison's been in, she has been presented as a full-fledged
*female*
> character. The 'bodyshape', the voice, the movements, every medium used
in her
> appearances has shown her to be a female character. I have seen and
heard the
> proof for myself, my friend, but I am willing to look over your proof and
> triple check your sources.
>
Yes, that's why I have so much trouble accepting the story that Poison is
a man. She had breasts and everything. I think Capcom claimed these
things as a joke, or just to avoid the controversy of having players beat
up a female character. Anything's possible, but still. . . it's really
hard to believe.
> >> The only times she and Roxy were changed into men was for the SNES
versions
> of Final Fight, and this was because Nintendo thought the orig
> >
> >That was convenient, but sadly, you're wrong.
>
> Have it your way, my friend. I have proof to back this up, and it doesn't
> involve EGM either. :)
>
> >> If you want proof, download MAME, download the *original* Final Fight ROM,
> and play it.
> >
> >What for?
>
> Because if the only version you're basing this opinion on is the SNES
version,
> then you're basing it on half a game. Capcom had to make some changes
to bring
> this game to the SNES and this included removing Guy and changing the female
> sprites to male ones. This back-up file, and sprites it contains, proves my
> point, and provides a nice piece of nostalgia to boot.
>
> > We all know Poison looks female (hell, Poison actually DID
> >look like a man with breasts in that game - the real realm of
> >questionability comes from Poison in Second IMpact/Third Strike). Now
> >are you going to contradict the people who freakin' CREATED Poison?
>
> No, but I am going to question the report and the person who translated it.
> Did either of you play the original arcade version? Or are you even going to
> bother on the off-chance that you'll be labelled as fools?
>
> If you want to discuss this further, we can do it via e-mail, but no matter
> what we say, this discussion will still be at a stalemate. You will still
> believe that Poison is male, and I will still know that the character in the
> original was female. Neither one of us is going to convince the other of
> anything different, so out of respect for the various regulars who post
and the
> newbies who are just discovering this group, let's drop this ridiculous
> subject, and not bring it up again.
>
Actually, I think this conversation is interesting and I'd like to hear it
here. I request the people post the conversation here in addition to the
emails.
> I mean, why start a real-life war over the gender of a not-so-alive
video game
> sprite?
>
I think it's mostly because she's such a cool character. Lots of people (
myself included ) would like to see her in a future Capcom video game, but
as a playable character and with her style intact ( i.e. Not this Final
Fight Revenge crap ). The character would lose most of it's appeal if it
was just a man dressing up as a woman. There's a certain "coolness"
factor involved.
I gotta admit if Poison was a man, I wouldn't want to see him in a game.
Perhaps Roxy could be considered a woman and put in the game, if Capcom
decides?
> Signed,
> Warewolf at Large
Black Dragon
> BTW, I wouldn't mind if we were wrong here. I mean, I WANT Poison to be
> female, but hey, if she's male, well that's the fucked-up Japanese. for
> you (note I still refer to POison as as "her" and "she", even though
> technically I should be referring to POison as a "him" and "he"). She
> still looks female, so it's best to just not think about it. As far as
> I'm concerned. POison is a hottie, regardless of gender. She's fictional
> anyway, so who cares?
>
Yes. If it ends up the character truly is male, they could always make
Roxy ( Poison's clone in Final Fight ) female. They could make up a story
about Roxy being the original chick gangster in Mad Gear and Poison copied
her look for amusement value and . . .*OTHER* reasons ( wink, wink ).
Then Roxy could be added with Poison in a background or storyline of a
future Street Fighter game.
Handgunner
> > female, but hey, if she's male, well that's the fucked-up Japanese. for
> > you (note I still refer to POison as as "her" and "she", even though
> > technically I should be referring to POison as a "him" and "he"). She
> > still looks female, so it's best to just not think about it. As far as
> > I'm concerned. POison is a hottie, regardless of gender. She's fictional
> > anyway, so who cares?
> >
>
> Roxy ( Poison's clone in Final Fight ) female. They could make up a story
> about Roxy being the original chick gangster in Mad Gear and Poison copied
> her look for amusement value and . . .*OTHER* reasons ( wink, wink ).
> Then Roxy could be added with Poison in a background or storyline of a
> future Street Fighter game.
Just a quick question, Dragqueen....
Have you made yourself invisible yet?
--
Dragqueen in his own words:
"I must say this is the most clear and informative book I have seen yet on
practicing Magick. This is the *only* book I've seen thus far that gives an
explaination of how one can achieve *psysical* invisibility..."
--------------------------------------------
Refusal to tell the truth is an indicator that you are headed for serious
mental problems, if you don't seek some counseling soon. Also, keep in
mind my suggestion to learn about the Holy Bible, which may someday be your
salvation.
---Dr. Albert Caine
Regards,
Handgunner
Handgunner
Black Dragon <sorc...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:sorcer-E-140...@ip-216-222-14-33.salmoninternet.com...
Really, it's a simple question....
Have you made yourself invisible yet, Dragqueen?