SP1 WTF?

[Dallas]

Is there some reason Microsoft has broken links to SP1 and I had to
download it at gamefront.com?

Has it come this far? Have they completely blown us off?

Check it out:
https://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/Fligh
tSimulatorXServicePack1.aspx


--
Dallas

[Dallas]

...and has anyone ever heard of the "MS scenery patch"?

http://www.gamefront.com/files/6228562/Flight_Simulator_X___Scenery_Patc
h


--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:gYydnXTBqphz0erN...@earthlink.com...

SP1? What's that? I installed FSX Gold and got the whole ball of wax
at once. I paid 49 bucks for it in 2010 but it's now available for less
than 30 bucks. I did download and run that patch, though. Don't know if I
needed it or not but didn't think it would matter if I didn't and would fix
it if I did.
Sam

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:gYydnXTBqphz0erN...@earthlink.com...
>
>

This one works for me.

<http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/FlightSimulatorXServicePack1.aspx>

[Dallas]

sambodidley wrote:

> This one works for me.
>
>
<http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/Fligh
tSimulatorXServicePack1.aspx>

Well yeah... that page works great for me too. Pretty page, nice
professional look.

Did you press the "Download" button?

After you press it, does your download of SP1 begin or do you get "404
- File or directory not found."?

--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message

news:YNudnXXrXabfPOrN...@earthlink.com...

Nope, didn't press it. Never have pressed it. Never needed it. I bought
FSX Gold in 2010. You can get it here for 22 bucks.<g>
Sam

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DPZE84/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A3L0FE5BDPRYBK>

[Dallas]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote:
> FSX Gold in 2010. You can get it here for 22 bucks.<g>

Thanks, but I paid $76.00 bucks for my FSX and I don't feel like giving M$
any more of my money today.

Making me go to an FS gamer downloading site to pick up an SP1 of
correction screw ups that Microsoft no longer makes available to paying
customers on their own site officially makes Microsoft the worst
corporation on the planet.

--
Dallas

[ChuckP]

Change link to to read ServicePack2 and SP2 is offerred. Perhaps SP2
includes SP1 updates.

Chuck

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote in message
news:k5897e$mao$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[raamman]

On Oct 12, 7:52 am, "ChuckP" <drucel...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Change link to to read ServicePack2 and SP2 is offerred.  Perhaps SP2
> includes SP1 updates.
>
> Chuck
>

> "sambodidley" <tails...@stallout.net> wrote in message

>
> news:k5897e$mao$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> >news:YNudnXXrXabfPOrN...@earthlink.com...
> >> sambodidley wrote:
>
> >>>    This one works for me.
>
> >> <http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/Fligh
> >> tSimulatorXServicePack1.aspx>
>
> >> Well yeah...    that page works great for me too.  Pretty page, nice
> >> professional look.
>
> >> Did you press the "Download" button?
>
> >> After you press it, does your download of SP1 begin or do you get "404
> >> - File or directory not found."?
>
> >> --
> >> Dallas
>
> >    Nope, didn't press it. Never have pressed it. Never needed it. I bought
> > FSX Gold in 2010.  You can get it here for 22 bucks.<g>
> > Sam
>

> > <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DPZE84/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=...>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think not; as I have the 1st version of fsx I seem to recall needing
sp1 specifically for active sky 2012 last year when I did a completely
new install

[TOCA]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:1874628947371715073.529422Cy...@news.east.earthlink.net...

No they are not, they are just trying to catch up with the Apple way of
doing business :o(

Or maybe the two companies are secretly merging? The new Apple maps looks a
bit too much like FS9 to be a coincidence ;o)

Tommy C, Denmark

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote

> Thanks, but I paid $76.00 bucks for my FSX and I don't feel like giving M$
> any more of my money today.
>
> Making me go to an FS gamer downloading site to pick up an SP1 of
> correction screw ups that Microsoft no longer makes available to paying
> customers on their own site officially makes Microsoft the worst
> corporation on the planet.
>
> --
> Dallas

Yep, know wacha mean. I can't find a thing for my MSdos 6.0 anywhere on
the internet. Sob, sob. Dang that old greedy corporation, anyhow. Last thing
I'll ever buy from them.<g>
Sam

[Tom]

SP1 is included in the Acceleration Update.

T2

"Dallas" wrote in message
news:gYydnXTBqphz0erN...@earthlink.com...

[raamman]

I was able to get a dl of SP 1 from here:

http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/FlightSimulatorXServicePack1.aspx

[sambodidley]

"TOCA" <n...@valid.com> wrote in message
news:507838b0$0$56796$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

Why anyone would want to install half of a game that's been available
for over 2 years and can now be bought for just a fraction of what that half
game cost when it first came out is beyond me. I mean, it's not like
bailing out GM or something.<g>
Sam

[Dallas]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote:

> Why anyone would want to install half of a game that's been available
> for over 2 years and can now be bought for just a fraction of what that
> half game cost when it first came out is beyond me. I mean, it's not
> like bailing out GM or something.<g>

Only an idiot would go to the trouble of going out and physically buying a
program a second time when he could sit at his desk and install 2 SPs in
less time than it takes to get half way to the store and have the complete
program - minus a couple of useless aircraft.


--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:374307225371779659.900413Cyb...@news.east.earthlink.net...

I guess that's ok for those satisfied with half a program. I got a lot
more than 2 planes with my FSX Gold. One usually gets out of something
according to what he puts into it. If you are happy with what you have then
that's really all that matters. It just wouldn't fill my plate. <g>
Sam

[Ian D]

"raamman" wrote in message
news:68cfddab-d613-4095...@m4g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

That's where SP1 and SP2 were always available from, since
they were released.

[Dallas]

Ian D wrote:

> I was able to get a dl of SP 1 from here:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/downloads/Pages/Flig
> htSimulatorXServicePack1.aspx
>
> That's where SP1 and SP2 were always available from, since
> they were released.

Press the "download" button and see what happens.

--
Dallas

[WayPoint]

Hmmm ..... Quoth the server: 404

[Dallas]

sambodidley wrote:

> I guess that's ok for those satisfied with half a program. I got a
> lot more than 2 planes with my FSX Gold. One usually gets out of
> something according to what he puts into it. If you are happy with
> what you have then that's really all that matters. It just wouldn't
> fill my plate. <g>

If could find anything of value to me in X-Pack or Gold, I'd spend the
$22 bucks in a heartbeat. But I can't find anything of interest, even
if it were free, so I guess I'll just save the hard drive space.

Like you say, it's a matter of what makes you happy, so I've got other
plans for that $22 bucks... the Tecnam Sierra for instance. :- )


--
Dallas

[Mxsmanic]

Is SP2 a roll-up of SP1? That is, if you install SP2 directly does it include
SP1? If so, that could explain it, because SP2 is still out there.

[Dallas]

TOCA wrote:

> No they are not, they are just trying to catch up with the Apple way
> of doing business :o(

Nooo... other than over-charging for all their stuff, dealing with
Apple is usually pretty smooth compared to Microswift.

--
Dallas

[Dallas]

Nope.

Seriously, someone at Microsoft erased the SP1 download and no one up
there cares because, as Sam says, it pretty much MSDOS 6.0 to them.

--
Dallas

[Dallas]

WayPoint wrote:

> > Press the "download" button and see what happens.

> Hmmm ..... Quoth the server: 404

See? What'd I tell ya?

Your honor... the prosecution rests.

--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message

news:qIydnZEp56fWceXN...@earthlink.com...

Well, for one thing, I have several payware addon planes that require
the acceleration pack. You'll probably find that too if you plan to do much
of that. I just never could stand to feel like I was being excluded from
from something others could do. Makes me feel like a step child.<g>
Sam

[WayPoint]

The witnesses may step down ...

However, it seems to be available from here -

http://www.gamershell.com/download_19171.shtml

If for some reason it does not work:-


1. I have left the country.

2. I have changed my name to Debbie and living you-know-where.

3. I'm suddenly very busy doing something else.

4. All of the above.

[Dallas]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote:

> Well, for one thing, I have several payware addon planes that require
> the acceleration pack.

If that's the case, you're right, I'll need it.

I think it was FS2000? "Professional"? Half the freeware aircraft required
the Pro version for the gauges. If you cheaped out and bought the $50 buck
version, you were out of luck.


--
Dallas

[Dallas]

WayPoint <some...@over-the-rainbow.oz>

>
> The witnesses may step down ...
>
> However, it seems to be available from here -
>http://www.gamershell.com/download_19171.shtml

Thanks Debbie, but I'm set... Downloaded, installed, and burned to DVD so
I don't have to do this again.

--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1570243983371802232.570130Cy...@news.east.earthlink.net...

You ladies had better grab one of those FSX Gold boxes if you want the
whole enchilada. There probably won't be any more coming when what's in
stock now is sold. I got mime back in 2010 when they still cost 50 bucks.<g>
Sam

[Dallas]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote:

> You ladies had better grab one of those FSX Gold boxes if you want
> the whole enchilada.

Can I assume if Gold sees an existing installation it will just upgrade it?


--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:718870842371843274.193469Cyb...@news.east.earthlink.net...

I really couldn't say, not ever having done that. I have used the
install DVD to remove the current one, though. I did that to reinstall a
couple of times.
Sam

[sambodidley]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote in message

news:k5cang$44r$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

On second thought, I guess you could install that X-pack onto your
existing FSX. In the FSX Gold box the X-pack is on a separate DVD with its
own product key and is installed after the FSX installation has completed.
If you have run both SP updates on your installation it should be ready for
the X-pack. You can give it a try and see what happens.
Sam

[WiebeV]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> schreef in bericht
news:k5cdb9$aqs$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

If I'm not mistaken: don't install SP2 if you want to install the X-pack!
You don't even have to install SP1 (it's also in X-pack), but that one does
not hurt ;-)

Wiebe

[Iain Smith]

On 13/10/2012 02:19, sambodidley wrote:
> I guess that's ok for those satisfied with half a program. I got a lot
> more than 2 planes with my FSX Gold. One usually gets out of something
> according to what he puts into it. If you are happy with what you have
> then that's really all that matters. It just wouldn't fill my plate.
> <g> Sam

I bought the Gold version and installed the Acceleration disc, mainly to
get SP1 & SP2. I used the Acceleration add-ons for about half-an-hour
and that was it.
Having had to re-install recently I didn't bother with Acceleration but
installed SP1 and SP2 separately as PMDG provided them with one of their
products.
I bought a flight simulator not a game but as you say Sam, each to his
own! :-))

Iain
Rugby, UK

[Mxsmanic]

Maybe the best solution is to stay with FS 2004.

[Ian D]

"WiebeV" wrote in message news:507aa7bc$0$4851$6c5e...@news.xlned.com...

That's correct. If you have SP2, it must be uninstalled before
installing Acceleration. SP1 is okay. The reason for this is that
the SP1 in Accel uses identical code to the stand alone version.
With SP2, the code is different. The Accel SP2 was written
first, and integrated into the Accel code. The stand alone SP2
version has different code written by a different team, and
was released at a later date.

[sambodidley]

"Ian D" <tau...@s7gwlpr8n2.com> wrote in message
news:3rCdnTxXXax_fefN...@giganews.com...

Well, Like I said, not ever having done that I really didn't know. I
figured someone on this group would come up with the right info. If it were
me, I'd just remove the old current one and install the new one that comes
in Gold with its new product key.
Sam

[sambodidley]

"Iain Smith" <iaindotsmithdotrugby@btinternetdotcom> wrote > I bought the

Gold version and installed the Acceleration disc, mainly to
> get SP1 & SP2. I used the Acceleration add-ons for about half-an-hour and
> that was it.
> Having had to re-install recently I didn't bother with Acceleration but
> installed SP1 and SP2 separately as PMDG provided them with one of their
> products.

Well, just use what you need for what you use, Aian. That's what I do.
I have bought several addon planes that plainly stated that they required
the X-pack to work. If you don't have any of those then you are probably OK.
I just prefer to have the option to use everything available whether I ever
exercise that option or not. I never use the default planes that came with
the X-pack. If that was all I got with Gold I'd agree with you. I fly only
small single engine prop planes VFR.

> I bought a flight simulator not a game but as you say Sam, each to his
> own! :-))

Right! Same here. That's why I use only my stick for stick planes and
yoke for yoke planes and full rudder pedals for both. Never flew a real
plane that had a mouse or keyboard to control them. Lots of games use them,
though.;-) I've never flown an airliner or a jet fighter plane either. If I
flew one of them in my sim it would surely be a game for me. I'd have no
idea if I were really simulating any realism.<g>
Sam


>
> Iain
> Rugby, UK

[Iain Smith]

On 14/10/2012 19:27, sambodidley wrote:
>> I bought a flight simulator not a game but as you say Sam, each to his
>> own! :-))
> Right! Same here. That's why I use only my stick for stick planes and
> yoke for yoke planes and full rudder pedals for both. Never flew a real
> plane that had a mouse or keyboard to control them. Lots of games use them,
> though.;-) I've never flown an airliner or a jet fighter plane either. If I
> flew one of them in my sim it would surely be a game for me. I'd have no
> idea if I were really simulating any realism.<g>
> Sam
>
>
>

Ok, fair comment Sam! <g>

Iain
Rugby, UK

[Walt_M]

>On 14/10/2012 19:27, sambodidley wrote:

>> [...] That's why I use only my stick for stick planes and

>> yoke for yoke planes and full rudder pedals for both. Never flew a real
>> plane that had a mouse or keyboard to control them. Lots of games use them,
>> though.;-) I've never flown an airliner or a jet fighter plane either. If I
>> flew one of them in my sim it would surely be a game for me. I'd have no
>> idea if I were really simulating any realism.<g>

Well, Sam, I have not flown any aircraft in real life (except 20
minutes on the controls of an R22 doing figure-8 (30 deg) turns,
whilst strictly maintaining altutude, under the watchful eyes of an
ex-navy flight instructor), so I guess you'd demote me to mere
"gamer".

But that instructor was genuinely amazed at the dexterity and control
I displayed during that flight. He said he'd never seen a first-time
student perform those turns so well straight up. I don't think I'm
any kind of genius, Sam, I just put it down to having mastered
helicopters in MSFS. So much for "it's just a game."

Now, if it's not a game for someone to "get the feel" of what it's
like to fly a chopper when they have never flown one in real life,
then I guess it's valid for a RL light aircraft pilot to use their
flight sim to "get the feel" of what it's like to fly an F-18 or a
B737. I don' think it's fair to imply that they are merely playing a
game. I find that a bit of a snobbish put-down, actually, Sam.
However, I have developed a thick skin thanks to my very good friends
here, and so it's no sweat for me, and we can stay friends. :-)))

[Walt_M]

I tell a lie... Some time after the R22 episode I did a trial
instructional flight in a Jabiru (LSA). Happy now? :-)

[Vic Baron]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote in message

news:k5f0f1$uqv$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

For me, even using TrackIr, it's the peripheral vision that I miss most.
Next to that, it's the g-forces that push you down in a tight turn, etc. I
sort of agree Sam, without having any prior flight experience, don't think
I'd really know what I was missing. I have heard several CFI's complain that
simmers who take flight instruction have a tendency to focus on the gauges
and not pay attention to where they are going and I attribute that strictly
to the panel display that blocks your outside view.

Quite often when just sightseeing, I remove the panel completely and just
fly visually. if you have a decent flight model, you can get a decent 'feel'
of the a/c.

Vic

[sambodidley]

"Walt_M" <walt...@live.com> wrote in message
news:9qvo7858eqeffcv99...@4ax.com...

Walt,
Me thinks thou dost protesteth a little too much. I like games. I also
like gamers. I bought a game and I just love simming in it. I believe I was
just recently accused of being a gamer because I bought it. I plead guilty.
;-)))I love to play this game the way I like to do it. I just like to play
mine different than some others. That doesn't mean you must also do so. I
just prefer to translate my RL flying skills to my sim because I can. It
makes the game so much more fun for me when I play it that way. Fly anything
you like any way you please. Ain't games a blast?<g>
Sam

[sambodidley]

"Iain Smith" <iaindotsmithdotrugby@btinternetdotcom> wrote in message
news:W66dneWfEJo38OHN...@bt.com...

Just kiddin' around, Iain. Sorry I misspelled your name in my post.
Being blind sucks.<g>
Sam
.

[sambodidley]

"Vic Baron" <vgb...@hotmail.com> wrote >

> For me, even using TrackIr, it's the peripheral vision that I miss most.
> Next to that, it's the g-forces that push you down in a tight turn, etc. I
> sort of agree Sam, without having any prior flight experience, don't think

> I'd really know what I was missing.> Vic

Yep, I miss feeling that seat belt get tight across my legs when I do a
roll. I also miss that wind in my face when I do it in an open cockpit
biplane. There's no feeling quite like hanging there by the seat belt in
inverted flight with nothing but that strap across your lap between you and
the ground below. When I can find a sim that can give me that kind of
experience I'll feel right I'm really flying. But what the heck, games are
fun, too.<g>
Sam

[Walt_M]

I've been known to.. :-)

> I like games. I also like gamers. I bought a game and I just love simming in it. I believe I was
>just recently accused of being a gamer because I bought it. I plead guilty.
>;-)))I love to play this game the way I like to do it. I just like to play
>mine different than some others. That doesn't mean you must also do so. I
>just prefer to translate my RL flying skills to my sim because I can. It
>makes the game so much more fun for me when I play it that way. Fly anything
>you like any way you please. Ain't games a blast?<g>
>Sam

MSFS IS *** NOT *** A GAME !!!!!! :-))))

[Copter_Six]

On 10/15/2012 6:03 PM, Vic Baron wrote:
>

>
> Quite often when just sightseeing, I remove the panel completely and
> just fly visually. if you have a decent flight model, you can get a
> decent 'feel' of the a/c.
>
> Vic

Once "mastering" the helicopter a person should be able to fly with no
panel at all. VFR low level helicopter flight is truly seat of the pants.


--


Copter Six

=================================================

[Iain Smith]

On 16/10/2012 00:51, sambodidley wrote:
> Just kiddin' around, Iain. Sorry I misspelled your name in my post.

That's ok Sam - no problem!

Iain
Rugby, UK

[Mxsmanic]

Walt_M writes:

> MSFS IS *** NOT *** A GAME !!!!!! :-))))

If MSFS were a game, Microsoft would not have abandoned it. You can make money
with games. It's hard to make money with simulators.

[Mxsmanic]

Vic Baron writes:

> I have heard several CFI's complain that
> simmers who take flight instruction have a tendency to focus on the gauges
> and not pay attention to where they are going and I attribute that strictly
> to the panel display that blocks your outside view.

Perhaps they forget that it's always okay to fly by instruments. The only
reason you ever need to look outside is for traffic.

You can fly by instruments in visual conditions, but you cannot fly visually
in instrument conditions.

[Mxsmanic]

sambodidley writes:

> Yep, I miss feeling that seat belt get tight across my legs when I do a
> roll. I also miss that wind in my face when I do it in an open cockpit
> biplane. There's no feeling quite like hanging there by the seat belt in
> inverted flight with nothing but that strap across your lap between you and
> the ground below. When I can find a sim that can give me that kind of
> experience I'll feel right I'm really flying.

So you prefer sensations. I find that to be a particularly useless and often
disagreeable part of flying in a real airplane. I especially dislike changes
in air pressure.

[Walt_M]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 00:15:59 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Well, FSX was an attempt to "monetize" the add-on market. that's one
of the things that I find hard to swallow about FSX - knowing I'm
contributing to the demise of a very inexpensive hobby with lots of
freeware contributors, and turning into a money machine. Damn
Microsoft and all who sail in her !!!

[sambodidley]

"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:19nr78tinj30tqeqd...@4ax.com...

Well, I sometimes put a big fan in front of my sym to blow in my face.
That helps a little. I can't do much about the air pressure and G forces,
though. I just have to tough some things out.<g>
Sam

[ManhattanMan]

On 10/16/2012 5:54 PM, sambodidley wrote:

>
> Well, I sometimes put a big fan in front of my sym to blow in my face.
> That helps a little. I can't do much about the air pressure and G forces,
> though. I just have to tough some things out.<g>
> Sam
>
>

LMAO - I thought about asking the wife to sometimes come into the office
and just shake the chair a bit, but then come to my senses... :)
--
MnM

[sambodidley]

"ManhattanMan" <fly...@usa.gov> wrote in message
news:k5kp94$7tm$1...@dont-email.me...

Have you landed any airplanes lately over high obstructions on narrow
rough dirt strips in a strong cross wind on nothing but instruments , either
in IMC or VMC? Sim gamers do it all the time. Nothing to it.<g>
Sam

[Dallas]

Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So you prefer sensations. I find that to be a particularly useless and
> often disagreeable part of flying in a real airplane.

The challenge of flying instruments is to do it while experiencing
particularly useless and often disagreeable sensations. Many non-visual
sensations are often not helpful and something you need to learn to ignore
in favor of instruments. All of this is beyond the training of a VFR
pilot.

I know you know that.

But you need to stop thinking that looking out the window is different than
looking at a gauge. It's not.

Looking out the window is just the widescreen version of flying with the
AI, with the exception of being ultra realtime and beyond mechanical
fallibility. The window is the most reliable instrument in the cluster.



--
Dallas

[Copter_Six]

On 10/16/2012 5:17 PM, Mxsmanic wrote:

> Perhaps they forget that it's always okay to fly by instruments. The only
> reason you ever need to look outside is for traffic.
>
> You can fly by instruments in visual conditions, but you cannot fly visually
> in instrument conditions.
>

:) You sure can fly visually in instrument conditions. You just can't
fly visually in IMC conditions. >)



--


Copter Six

=================================================

*Psychopath: A Journey Through the Madness*

[Mxsmanic]

Walt_M writes:

> Well, FSX was an attempt to "monetize" the add-on market. that's one
> of the things that I find hard to swallow about FSX - knowing I'm
> contributing to the demise of a very inexpensive hobby with lots of
> freeware contributors, and turning into a money machine. Damn
> Microsoft and all who sail in her !!!

Corporations exist to make money. That is their only purpose, unfortunately.

[Mxsmanic]

Dallas writes:

> Looking out the window is just the widescreen version of flying with the
> AI, with the exception of being ultra realtime and beyond mechanical
> fallibility. The window is the most reliable instrument in the cluster.

In daytime, with clear weather and familiar territory, that may be true. I
think it is far less true when you're flying over an area that you don't know
well, or at night, or with the slightest decrease in visibility (even if still
VMC).

The instruments are always reliable, rain or shine. You can even get
instruments that will show terrain and give a rough indication of the position
of other traffic. So the only thing for which you need visuals is spotting
other traffic and uncharted obstacles (if you insist on flying low).

[Walt_M]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:22:38 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Have you read The Corporation by Joel Bakan?

[Mxsmanic]

Walt_M writes:

> Have you read The Corporation by Joel Bakan?

No, why?

[nm...@wt.net]

On Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:49:38 PM UTC-5, Dallas wrote:

>
> Can I assume if Gold sees an existing installation it will just upgrade it?

> Dallas

I would rather install from scratch, and then transfer the 3rd
party stuff to the new sim.
Gold may well install over an existing version, but I wouldn't
want to do it. And Gold does have one extra "3rd" service pack
of sorts. I'd rather start fresh and make sure everything is right.
This is what I did, and never have had any trouble with Gold or Accell..
Then you can simply copy all the extra stuff over.
It's kinda like starting with a fresh load of Windows.. Everything
will usually be nice and snappy right off the bat.

[nm...@wt.net]

They tried to make it into a game, and look where that got them.. :/

[nm...@wt.net]

On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:30:16 PM UTC-5, Walt_M wrote:

>
> Well, FSX was an attempt to "monetize" the add-on market. that's one
>
> of the things that I find hard to swallow about FSX - knowing I'm
>
> contributing to the demise of a very inexpensive hobby with lots of
>
> freeware contributors, and turning into a money machine. Damn
>
> Microsoft and all who sail in her !!!

FSX was a newer version, the same as every version before it.
MS didn't really give much thought to the add on market. And they
didn't design for them. They just gave them an SDK and left
them to their own devices.
They knew the 3rd party people would do what they have to do,
no matter what MS did.
And every single version has used code that made some code
of previous versions non usable. The switch to new gauges after
FS98, or whatever, is one example. That was well before FSX.

FSX is the best MSFS version. I ditched FS9 the first day I got it,
and never looked back. The VC's are much better in FSX.

I'm almost certain my next sim will be Prepare3D.
But at this time, there is not much that Prepare3D can do,
that FSX can't. Or at least for my purposes.
So I haven't bothered to change yet.

[sambodidley]

<nm...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:3c5c13cd-c2ee-4fce...@googlegroups.com...

> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:49:38 PM UTC-5, Dallas wrote:
>
>>
>> Can I assume if Gold sees an existing installation it will just upgrade
>> it?
>
>> Dallas
>
> I would rather install from scratch,

That was no problem for me. Gold was the first version of MSFS I
bought. Installed it 2 years ago and haven't looked back since. Never went
through that training wheel bit with other versions. FSX is about as near to
real flying as anything I ever expect to get from a computer program. With
the right kind of flight control hardware it does about all any sim could do
that is totally lacking in any kind of the physical elements of flying. I
have to supply them with my memory. <g>
Sam

[Mxsmanic]

nm...@wt.net writes:

> They tried to make it into a game, and look where that got them.

They didn't try hard enough. Then again, it's difficult to turn a simulator
into a game.

[Walt_M]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:49:08 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Walt_M writes:

>> Have you read The Corporation by Joel Bakan?

>No, why?

I thought it was relelvant.

[sambodidley]

"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:9ss588h143nv5k77f...@4ax.com...

Not really. Just fly a simulator with nothing but a mouse and a keyboard
I'd be pretty much along the way. It's all in how you define a game. I
probably define them different than some. It's a game for me when I have to
use my imagination for most of what I'm supposed to be doing. I have no
illusions at all that I'm doing anything more than just playing another
computer game. In my world, a game doesn't have to have a scoring system
like Super Mario to be a game. A game for me is anything that entertains me.
A simulator that was super realistic in every respect would probably bore
the heck out of me, but I can spend hours putting around in my little J-3
and never tire of it. That's one of the greatest things about this hobby.
Everybody can get just what he wants from it. Right now, it's my favorite
game and I just love it.<g>
Sam

[WayPoint]

Same here.

Hell, I can blast off from the taxiway if I want.
I don't need no steenkin' ATC. :-)





--

/\
^V^ _/__\_
///'}
___ /` \
>-=-I>==( \=\====
``` > >
\ /
>--/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSZxmZmBfnU&feature=related
Bruce

[sambodidley]

"WayPoint" <some...@over-the-rainbow.oz> wrote in message
news:k5vl1l$hcb$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Bruce

Yep, but don't forget, you have to walk around the plane and kick the
tires before you start.<g>
Sam

[Walt_M]

No no no no... It's a conspiracy, I tell ya... :-)))

I still can't tear myself away from FS9. :-(

[Dallas]

Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can even get instruments that will show terrain and give a rough
> indication of the position
of other traffic.

Yes, but for TCAS to work the traffic has to have a transponder and it has
to be switched on.

The majority of airspace below 10,000 feet does not require a transponder.
These aircraft are invisible to TCAS and if you are not looking out the
window, they can ruin your day.


--
Dallas

[Walt_M]

When I did that pseudo-instructional flight in the R-22, one of the
things the instructor was focussing on whilst I was doing those
figure-8's was how observant I was being in looking out for other
traffic at the same time.

What struck me was how tiny those specks (the traffic) were. Gotta
keep those eyes peeled! I got a real sense of how easy it would be
to have a mid-air "event".

[Dallas]

Walt_M <walt...@live.com> wrote:

> What struck me was how tiny those specks (the traffic) were. Gotta
> keep those eyes peeled!

When I fly with high time pilots I'm struck by how seriously they take
looking for traffic. Being a low time pilot, I don't have their "ferret on
speed" demeanor.

I'm guessing they must know something I don't... like the experience of a
near miss.

--
Dallas

[Walt_M]

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 00:15:20 -0500, Dallas
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Walt_M <walt...@live.com> wrote:
>
>> What struck me was how tiny those specks (the traffic) were. Gotta
>> keep those eyes peeled!

>When I fly with high time pilots I'm struck by how seriously they take
>looking for traffic. Being a low time pilot, I don't have their "ferret on
>speed" demeanor.

You will, glassdropper, you will... :-)

[WayPoint]

Those tiny specks can get real big, real fast.

Tower: "Alpha Charlie, climb to 4000 ft for noise abatement"

Captain Gerry:"How can I possibly be creating excess noise at 2000 ft?"

Tower: "At 4000 ft you will miss the twin coming at you at 2000
ft, and that is bound to avoid one hell of a racket".

[Walt_M]

Oops...

[nm...@wt.net]

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 2:25:26 PM UTC-5, Mxsmanic wrote:

> The instruments are always reliable, rain or shine.

Famous last words... :(

>You can even get
>
> instruments that will show terrain and give a rough indication of the position
>
> of other traffic. So the only thing for which you need visuals is spotting
>
> other traffic and uncharted obstacles (if you insist on flying low).

My 737 has all that. I have terrain display, "which I only use in the areas
where I have a chance of smacking terrain, and also TCAS. I use the fish
finder all the time.
But... I still keep my head on a swivel. Just because TCAS lights up a
plane, doesn't mean it still won't run into you.. Or visa versa..
It just gives you a little advance notification of the impending doom. :+
I was at cruise going to Tulsa a week or two ago.. Kept watching one on
the fish finder coming my way.. I knew he was coming, and they still
came pretty danged close. Flew right over my head, maybe 1000 feet above me.
I took a screen shot of it, but I can't find it in my clutter of images..
Took off outa Hobby last night in my private 600. A Beech was a little
close for comfort as I was climbing out of the airport..
*** Traffic, Traffic*** blared the TCAS.. Head swivel time.. But no problemo..
I was climbing so fast, I was up and over him quick.

The TCAS in the NGX is quite realistic. If one gets too close, the PFD
will show me which way to go to avoid mayhem. Little red trapazoid type
markers.. It will tell you if you need to climb, or descend.
And in some cases traffic can be both above you, and below you. In that
case, it will tell you to thread the needle right in the middle of them.
You will see red warning traps, both high and low, and you must keep between
them. Also the fishfinder on the ND will tell me their altitude vs mine.
I'm always watching other planes, and noting where they are above or
below me.

Anyway, even in a sim, with TCAS, I still keep my head on a swivel, because
it's a good practice/habit to avoid potential mayhem.
The real worlders do the same. Or at least the ones that would prefer to die
of natural causes a few years down the road.. :/

[Dallas]

Mxsmanic wrote:

> You can fly by instruments in visual conditions,

In the sim, sure...

Are you talking about in the sim, or the real legal and practical world?

I'm going to assume you mean the real world since we all like it "as
real as it gets".


Under VFR conditions, you are not legally allowed to fly without
looking out the window in class E airspace.

(Legal means you have a legal responsibility to "see and avoid" other
aircraft. If you collide with a aircraft that has the right of way,
your estate would be liable for the damages.)

Let's say you are flying an IFR flight plan through class E airspace on
a VFR day. The trouble with class E on a visual day is that every
clown with a flying machine is allowed to be in your airspace and ATC
traffic advisories will not save you from an ultralight without a
transponder.

The situation I just described is the same thing taking your high speed
boat to a lake on Labor Day weekend and trying to cross it wearing a
blindfold.

You might make it, you might not.


--
Dallas

[Walt_M]

That was so well said, even I can understand it. :-)

[Mxsmanic]

sambodidley writes:

> Not really. Just fly a simulator with nothing but a mouse and a keyboard
> I'd be pretty much along the way. It's all in how you define a game. I
> probably define them different than some. It's a game for me when I have to
> use my imagination for most of what I'm supposed to be doing.

Games have objectives, goals, increasing skill levels, ways to win and
compete. In general, if it appeals to average 13-year-old boys, it's a game.

> A game for me is anything that entertains me.

So music and cinema are games? (Assuming they entertain you.)

> A simulator that was super realistic in every respect would probably bore
> the heck out of me, but I can spend hours putting around in my little J-3
> and never tire of it.

A perfect simulation would be the same as reality, and thus would have the
same advantages and disadvantages and the same appeal or lack thereof. Part of
the reason for simming is not just that it's realistic, but also that it skips
certain aspects of reality that are unpleasant--such as cost, or logistic
considerations, or regulations and rules, etc. A completely realistic
simulator would require that you show your pilot's license to fly, and would
kill you if you crashed ... but who would want a simulator like that?

[Mxsmanic]

Dallas writes:

> Yes, but for TCAS to work the traffic has to have a transponder and it has
> to be switched on.

If you're in controlled airspace with significant traffic, that will be
required for all aircraft.

> The majority of airspace below 10,000 feet does not require a transponder.
> These aircraft are invisible to TCAS and if you are not looking out the
> window, they can ruin your day.

As I've said, the only real reason to look out the window (apart from
pleasure) is to check for traffic.

[Mxsmanic]

nm...@wt.net writes:

> But... I still keep my head on a swivel. Just because TCAS lights up a
> plane, doesn't mean it still won't run into you.. Or visa versa..

Real-world current versions of TCAS are notoriously unreliable for azimuth. I
believe at best they can place azimuth within a quadrant. So the symbol you
see on TCAS at one o'clock might actually be at two o'clock or almost anywhere
within 90 degrees. That's one reason why TCAS issues advisories based on
altitude changes rather than course changes.

> Anyway, even in a sim, with TCAS, I still keep my head on a swivel, because
> it's a good practice/habit to avoid potential mayhem.
> The real worlders do the same. Or at least the ones that would prefer to die
> of natural causes a few years down the road.. :/

Unless they are in IMC, which is one of the situations for which TCAS is
intended to be especially useful.

[Mxsmanic]

Dallas writes:

> In the sim, sure...
>
> Are you talking about in the sim, or the real legal and practical world?

Both. Except for watching for traffic in VMC, you can do everything on
instruments.

> Under VFR conditions, you are not legally allowed to fly without
> looking out the window in class E airspace.

You're expected to see and avoid, but the regulations don't actually say how
often you need to look out the window, or in what way. As long as you see and
avoid traffic, you're good.

For everything else, such as airspeed, course, altitude, and so on, the
instruments are more reliable than looking out the window. That doesn't mean
you can't look out the window for information on these things, but it does
mean that if you choose to get this information from instruments, it does not
in any way diminish safety. Indeed, in marginal VMC, checking instruments can
only improve safety. I don't know why any competent instructor would object to
this.

[ManhattanMan]

On 10/25/2012 12:40 AM, Mxsmanic wrote:
> As I've said, the only real reason to look out the window (apart from
> pleasure) is to check for traffic.

The only real reason I flew IRL, was to look out the window. The panel
info only insured I stayed in the air. Plus it's a hell of a lot of fun
being a bird. YMMV

--
MnM

[sambodidley]

"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:lsjh889buekmvs7h8...@4ax.com...

Well, you've defined your concepts, just I have done with mine. I'm
still enjoying my game, and yes, I'm being well entertained when doing so,
and I am just a bit over 13 years old. I had stopped playing "Let's Pretend"
by that age, however. We didn't have computer games like MSFS back in 1937.
<g>
Sam

[sambodidley]

"ManhattanMan" <fly...@usa.gov> wrote in message
news:k6bemq$1fb$1...@dont-email.me...

It also helps you dodge those ground objects. Of course, if you never
fly anything but a simulator game you don't even need any windows in an
airplane.<g>
Sam

[Dallas]

"sambodidley" <tail...@stallout.net> wrote:
> "Of course, if you never fly anything but a simulator game you don't even
> need any windows in an airplane.<g>

Mx is an odd duck. Whereas he actually has 80% of the knowledge needed to
be a private pilot, he hates the idea of flying.


--
Dallas

[sambodidley]

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:732788329372904835.779334Cyb...@news.east.earthlink.net...

The problem with that is that knowledge alone won't get you past that
check ride with that examiner. You've still got to fly the dang thing. Even
if you get airsick from doing it.<g>
Sam

[Copter_Six]

"Can" doesn't include "Legal" :)




--


Copter Six

=================================================

[Dallas]

Copter_Six <c...@texas.com> wrote:

> "Can" doesn't include "Legal" :)

Haiku from you?



--
Dallas

[Copter_Six]

On 10/26/2012 11:12 PM, Dallas wrote:
> Copter_Six <c...@texas.com> wrote:
>
>> "Can" doesn't include "Legal" :)
>
> Haiku from you?
>
>
>

Unintentional :)



--


Copter Six

=================================================