OT:Heavy Gear 3D Enhanced Edition? (some archaeology^^)
Red Comet
groups nowadays. And there is even no people at HG groups...
Recently I'm searching for MW2 3D Enhanced Edition and now
only PowerVR, Rave, S3 are still absent. And just noticed another
thing. Heavy Gear Heavy Gear also got 3D Enhanced Edition???
I didn't know that Heavy Gear also comes with 3D Enhanced Edition.
It's offered with Sony computer. See picture.
http://images.auctionworks.com/fullView.asp?img=http://images.auctionworks.c
om/hi/46/46277/heavygear2.jpg
Does anyone know where I can get more information like its technical
specs(using what chipset& API ) and screenshots(to see how much
the difference between this and regular version)?
So far from what I know the games using MW2 engine which
has been 3D Enhanced are:
Mech Warrior 2 for lots of different 3D chips and D3D Titanium Edition.
Another question regarding to Titanium Edition. This games looks
really ugly with D3D. Have tried Rage II, Savage 4 Pro, GeForce 256,
GeForce 2 GTS, Radeon DDR, GeForce 3 Ti200 from the past years.
But This games seems support Glide and RRedline also. When 3Dfx is
selected in video option, the game looks much better. Does this game
really support Glide or it's just special D3D call to Voodoo? I don't
have Rendition Verite card so I'm not sure how this game run on the
Verite. Seems this game could be the second Glide edition and
this game could also be the only one RRedline edition!
Interstate76 for 3Dfx Voodoo, PowerVR series one, Rendition
Verite and D3D in one pack. I don't know if there is any patch
for regular version. The only one version I have is the version
mentioned here.
Battlezone, the Diamond Monster 3D II bundle and later the patch
which turned the regular version into the same thing as Monster 3D
II bundle. I have all the version mentioned here plus a Lite version
bundled with one of my A3D sound card.
--
In order to rebuild the Earth, I proceed the project of freezing the earth
to make it sleep for a period of time. Axcis will fall into the Earth. I
will trample all who stand on my way.
First of One
news:ast221$r0g$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> Long time no see! But there seems not so many people at MW2
> groups nowadays. And there is even no people at HG groups...
> Recently I'm searching for MW2 3D Enhanced Edition and now
> only PowerVR, Rave, S3 are still absent.
Waitaminute, I remember you!
> And just noticed another
> thing. Heavy Gear Heavy Gear also got 3D Enhanced Edition???
> I didn't know that Heavy Gear also comes with 3D Enhanced Edition.
Heavy Gear comes standard with Glide and Direct3D support. I remember
running it on my 2 MB ATi Rage II in D3D; it was slower than software
rendering. There is no special 3D-enhanced edition; Sony just labeled it
that way.
> Does this game
> really support Glide or it's just special D3D call to Voodoo? I don't
> have Rendition Verite card so I'm not sure how this game run on the
> Verite. Seems this game could be the second Glide edition and
> this game could also be the only one RRedline edition!
The game has a single Direct3D mode, but *was only tested on Voodoo and
Rendition cards*. I ran Mercs v1.1 (same as Titanium) on my Geforce3 and the
graphics looked no better than it did on my Voodoo3.
--
First of One, Primary Adjunctive Grid Alpha-01
Mech Arena: http://daxin.netfirms.com/
FormulaSAE Racing: http://fsae.utoronto.ca
Red Comet
news:2PzI9.34417$Q71....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> "Red Comet" <redc...@magix.com.sg> wrote in message
> news:ast221$r0g$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> > groups nowadays. And there is even no people at HG groups...
> > Recently I'm searching for MW2 3D Enhanced Edition and now
> > only PowerVR, Rave, S3 are still absent.
>
>
Me too! And I was expecting you to see my post!!
Oh, if I don't remember wrongly, last time I posted here was 1999!
> > And just noticed another
> > thing. Heavy Gear Heavy Gear also got 3D Enhanced Edition???
> > I didn't know that Heavy Gear also comes with 3D Enhanced Edition.
>
> Heavy Gear comes standard with Glide and Direct3D support. I remember
> running it on my 2 MB ATi Rage II in D3D; it was slower than software
> rendering. There is no special 3D-enhanced edition; Sony just labeled it
> that way.
>
Yes. But I thought this game might be 3D enhanced further (like Battle
Zone did). I ran HG on my old K6-233 and Rage II+DVD 4MB SGRAM
in D3D before. Seems 4MB SGRAM helped a little? The game runs ok,
the speed is about the same as software rendering. But I had another problem
which is ATi's drivers. When HG came out. Rage II's driver can't display
transparent object properly. The explosion always looks like a square .
switching to 2162 driver solved the problem. But 2162 and all later version
disable bilinear filtering on transparent object. Another problem was that
my Rage II+DVD is 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV. 2162 can only recognize
Rage II+DVD. Which disabled lots of function of my card. Later driver
finally came with proper support to 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV. ATi's driver was
famous for these things...My 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV is still in use. Another
4MB SGRAM could be added to the card but I never did because it's
expensive(USD70 at 1999). This chipset can't run newer games. And 4MB
is more then enough for Rage CIF games(Right now I only play MW2 ATi
3D with this card.) But my TV Out has been spoilt...So this card can only be
connected to PC monitor. So it has become 3D Pro Turbo, no PC2TV:~
What's your condition of your Rage II card? And what's your Rage II card's
full name? 3D Xpression+? If I don't remember wrongly, you used Xpression
(Rage I) to take the screenshops. right?
But Heavy Gear looks nicer when running with Voodoo Glide.
So Sony just made a joke? Unlike Diamond, they really have 3D
Enhanced Edition of Battle Zone...
> > Does this game
> > really support Glide or it's just special D3D call to Voodoo? I don't
> > have Rendition Verite card so I'm not sure how this game run on the
> > Verite. Seems this game could be the second Glide edition and
> > this game could also be the only one RRedline edition!
>
> The game has a single Direct3D mode, but *was only tested on Voodoo and
> Rendition cards*. I ran Mercs v1.1 (same as Titanium) on my Geforce3 and
the
> graphics looked no better than it did on my Voodoo3.
>
But the strange thing is: Titanium looks different with Mercs D3D.
Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got better shading of Mechs.
Titanium had no shading. And Titanium has three mode in video option where
Mercs D3D have no option to change 3D card but have options to change 3D
features. Not only GeForce 3 running Titanium is no better then Voodoo 3 in
terms of image quality, but Voodoo 1 can totally defeat GeForce 3 in
Titanium(!).
Maybe Voodoo 5 with FSAA is the best for Titanium and MW2 Glide??
nVidia has bought 3dfx but seems none of Voodoo special calls was included
in new GeForce. Same as Creative doesn't include awesome A3D into their new
Audigy. Mercs D3D seems doesn't have so much difference? I'm not sure about
this now. Right now I don't have US Windows installed so I can't install the
game.
I used to have an US Windows installed just for original Activision games.
Is there anyway to cheat the Activision games to think they are installed in
US Windows? Only original versions have the problem. Bundled versions and
pirate versions(!) don't have problem. Activision games selling in Singapore
are all US version and so do the Windows selling here. But I need TW Windows
because I need to exchange documents with Taiwan and TW Windows can
also process English. There is no use to install an US Windows except just
for Activision games. That's really annoying:~
First of One
> Me too! And I was expecting you to see my post!!
> Oh, if I don't remember wrongly, last time I posted here was 1999!
Speaking of which, I don't think I've updated my web site since... two days
ago last year, on December 6, 2001! There are now some MW3 screenshots on
there.
> Yes. But I thought this game might be 3D enhanced further (like Battle
> Zone did).
Was the "further-enhanced" Battlezone a completely different game, or simply
the standard game patched to v1.4? See:
http://www.activision.com/downloads/29.asp . There is a 3 MB "large assets"
file you can use along with v1.4 to get perhaps higher-res textures.
Battlezone Gold comes already patched to v1.4, maybe that was what you were
referring to?
> I ran HG on my old K6-233 and Rage II+DVD 4MB SGRAM
> in D3D before. Seems 4MB SGRAM helped a little? The game runs ok,
> the speed is about the same as software rendering.
I had a Pentium-166 MMX, which presumably is slower than your rig under
software rendering. I guess 4 MB SGRAM helps tremendously.
> But I had another problem which is ATi's drivers. When HG came
> out. Rage II's driver can't display transparent object properly.
Aff, I remember. The distant fog in HG never showed correctly on my Rage II.
> What's your condition of your Rage II card? And what's your Rage II card's
> full name? 3D Xpression+? If I don't remember wrongly, you used Xpression
> (Rage I) to take the screenshops. right?
To be honest, I don't know. The ATi Rage-whatever chip was integrated on my
motherboard, with 2MB of SGRAM soldered on, and a socket for a 2MB upgrade.
The drivers show the chip as a 3D Rage II+. The BIOS recognized it as "ATi
Mach64". In game framerates with about five 'Mechs onscreen were ~ 20 fps.
> But Heavy Gear looks nicer when running with Voodoo Glide.
> So Sony just made a joke? Unlike Diamond, they really have 3D
> Enhanced Edition of Battle Zone...
Look here: http://www.activision.com/downloads/298.asp
The v1.1 patch for HG enables 16-bit alpha-blended textures in Glide and
D3D, though only for cards with at least 16 MB of video memory. "Players
with only 2MB of texture memory on their 3D accelerator card are restricted
to 8-bit textures with no alpha blending." I guess that says it.
> But the strange thing is: Titanium looks different with Mercs D3D.
> Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got better shading of Mechs.
> Titanium had no shading.
You are talking about the D3D engine in Mercs 1.1, and not 1.08 or earlier,
quiaff?
> And Titanium has three mode in video option where
> Mercs D3D have no option to change 3D card but have options to change 3D
> features. Not only GeForce 3 running Titanium is no better then Voodoo 3
> in terms of image quality, but Voodoo 1 can totally defeat GeForce 3 in
> Titanium(!).
I witnessed similar results with my V3 and GF3. However, I forced on 32-bit
color, 4x FSAA, and 8-tap anisotropy on the GF3. Still, it is depressing to
see the game running only slightly faster than MW*4*: Mercs at the same
settings.
> Maybe Voodoo 5 with FSAA is the best for Titanium and MW2 Glide??
Titanium, perhaps, but MW2 Glide doesn't work on anything above a Voodoo2. I
tried with my Voodoo3, to no avail.
> nVidia has bought 3dfx but seems none of Voodoo special calls was included
> in new GeForce. Same as Creative doesn't include awesome A3D into their
> new Audigy.
The Geforce3 apparently has support for DOS Glide, as seen here:
http://www.smokeypoint.com/3dfx.htm
I can't say if it works, as I don't have a copy of Tomb Raider 3dfx.
Red Comet
From: First of One <daxin...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.games.mechwarrior2
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: OT:Heavy Gear 3D Enhanced Edition?
> "Red Comet" <redc...@magix.com.sg> wrote in message
> news:asv2kk$3pa$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> > Me too! And I was expecting you to see my post!!
> > Oh, if I don't remember wrongly, last time I posted here was 1999!
>
> Speaking of which, I don't think I've updated my web site since... two
days
> ago last year, on December 6, 2001! There are now some MW3 screenshots on
> there.
>
May I ask... why did you add MW3 but not MW4?^^
> > Yes. But I thought this game might be 3D enhanced further (like Battle
> > Zone did).
>
> Was the "further-enhanced" Battlezone a completely different game, or
simply
> the standard game patched to v1.4? See:
> http://www.activision.com/downloads/29.asp . There is a 3 MB "large
assets"
> file you can use along with v1.4 to get perhaps higher-res textures.
>
I call both "further-enhanced" version. Especially the Monster 3D II
version.
Because it came out lone before 1.4 patch was released! And patching
original version to 1.4 requires some works. I have original version. But
since I got Monster 3D II version I've never play original version again
because Monster 3D II version is more convenient. It does not need
to be patched. And the more important thing is, it doesn't ask me US
Windows!
> Battlezone Gold comes already patched to v1.4, maybe that was what you
were
> referring to?
>
Actually I was referring to Monster 3D II edition. I didn't know the
existence of
Battle Zone Gold until now. Is it same thing as Monster 3D II edition?
And Activision says that Japanese language version already contains the
enhanced
graphics file. I've never seen this version before either. Is this game
translated
to Japanese, including text and speech? Is the Japanese version released as
late as
Gold so Activision had time to enhance its graphics?
> > I ran HG on my old K6-233 and Rage II+DVD 4MB SGRAM
> > in D3D before. Seems 4MB SGRAM helped a little? The game runs ok,
> > the speed is about the same as software rendering.
>
> I had a Pentium-166 MMX, which presumably is slower than your rig under
> software rendering. I guess 4 MB SGRAM helps tremendously.
>
Is HG also integer based? K6-233 is much faster then Pentium 166 MMX in
integer(almost doubles Pentium 200MMX). But its floating point is as weak as
Pentium 166MMX. I think in my system the graphics card limitation is in the
Rage II chip, not the memory. 4MB 100MHZ SGRAM was good at that days.
It's even better then Voodoo's 4MB 60MHZ EDORAM!
> > But I had another problem which is ATi's drivers. When HG came
> > out. Rage II's driver can't display transparent object properly.
>
> Aff, I remember. The distant fog in HG never showed correctly on my Rage
II.
>
Yes, I've almost forgotton that!
BTW, about the transparent explosion. It seems that in MW2 3D only 3Dfx
version
and Titanium edition got transparent explosion?
> > What's your condition of your Rage II card? And what's your Rage II
card's
> > full name? 3D Xpression+? If I don't remember wrongly, you used
Xpression
> > (Rage I) to take the screenshops. right?
>
> To be honest, I don't know. The ATi Rage-whatever chip was integrated on
my
> motherboard, with 2MB of SGRAM soldered on, and a socket for a 2MB
upgrade.
wow! Built in? So is this thing still in service? Since then I've damaged 3
MB!
Fortunately all my VGA and sound system I used before are all addon card.
> The drivers show the chip as a 3D Rage II+.
If I just use reference driver, my Windows 9X also shows the chip as Rage
II+.
Seems mine is the same as yours. But Windows NT4 shows the chip as
Rage II+DVD.
> The BIOS recognized it as "ATi Mach64".
Same here. But ATi Mach 64 covers a lot more ATi chips.
This name isn't as specific as Rage II or Rage II+.
> In game framerates with about five 'Mechs onscreen were ~ 20 fps.
Seems mine is a little faster : )
> > But Heavy Gear looks nicer when running with Voodoo Glide.
> > So Sony just made a joke? Unlike Diamond, they really have 3D
> > Enhanced Edition of Battle Zone...
>
> Look here: http://www.activision.com/downloads/298.asp
>
> The v1.1 patch for HG enables 16-bit alpha-blended textures in Glide and
> D3D, though only for cards with at least 16 MB of video memory. "Players
> with only 2MB of texture memory on their 3D accelerator card are
restricted
> to 8-bit textures with no alpha blending." I guess that says it.
>
Yes. But then what's in the Sony version? Same as v1.1? If it's same as
v1.1,
it's still ok as long as it came before v1.1^^
BTW, if I don't remember wrongly, I didn't see too much difference between
1.0's 8-bit textures and v1.1's 16-bit textures. At least they are not
apparent as
the 3D enhance in MW2 and Battlezone. I can't try it now. I don't have
English
Windows installed at this moment. Another question is that does Sony edition
run on non-English Windows?
> > But the strange thing is: Titanium looks different with Mercs D3D.
> > Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got better shading of
Mechs.
> > Titanium had no shading.
>
> You are talking about the D3D engine in Mercs 1.1, and not 1.08 or
earlier,
> quiaff?
>
Now I'm not very sure about this and can not try it either because my Win
Mercs also require US Windows! It seems that the retailer wanna players
to play DOS version only as my DOS system is still English. And DOS
version can not be patched to 3D. Maybe you can tell me more about this
issue~^
> > And Titanium has three mode in video option where
> > Mercs D3D have no option to change 3D card but have options to change 3D
> > features. Not only GeForce 3 running Titanium is no better then Voodoo 3
> > in terms of image quality, but Voodoo 1 can totally defeat GeForce 3 in
> > Titanium(!).
>
> I witnessed similar results with my V3 and GF3. However, I forced on
32-bit
> color, 4x FSAA, and 8-tap anisotropy on the GF3. Still, it is depressing
to
> see the game running only slightly faster than MW*4*: Mercs at the same
> settings.
>
One question. How do you force on 32bits color? I only know the forcing
32 bits can be found in OpenGL.
And I didn't know there is theMW4 Mercs as well........
> > Maybe Voodoo 5 with FSAA is the best for Titanium and MW2 Glide??
>
> Titanium, perhaps, but MW2 Glide doesn't work on anything above a Voodoo2.
I
> tried with my Voodoo3, to no avail.
>
I see. But Voodoo 2 isn't better then Voodoo 1 in terms of image quality.
Unless there is any way to set MW2 Glide to 1024x768 and can make
it to run on Voodoo 2 SLI... I've always consider Voodoo 2 SLI better then
Voodoo 3 since Voodoo 2 SLI is as fast as Voodoo 3 and have no Voodoo 3
compatibility problem. But my Voodoo 2 spoiled agaon. Have to get another
one...
> > nVidia has bought 3dfx but seems none of Voodoo special calls was
included
> > in new GeForce. Same as Creative doesn't include awesome A3D into their
> > new Audigy.
>
> The Geforce3 apparently has support for DOS Glide, as seen here:
>
> http://www.smokeypoint.com/3dfx.htm
>
> I can't say if it works, as I don't have a copy of Tomb Raider 3dfx.
>
I don't have Tomb Raider1 and the 3Dfx patch either.....
Glidos? I knew that but still have no time to do more test of it.
Have you used it with any DOS Glide games successfully?
What's the compatibility? If I don't remember wronly, the
compatibility is: Voodoo 5=Voodoo 3=Banshee=Voodoo Rush < Voodoo
2 < Voodoo 1. Where does GeForce sit in?
Red Comet
Hope you don't mind it~^
First of One
> May I ask... why did you add MW3 but not MW4?^^
As I said, the last update I made was on Dec 6, 2001, and that only to
correct a few HTML bugs. I haven't been very diligent with site updates, and
I don't consider MW4 to be worthy of its name.
> Because it came out lone before 1.4 patch was released! And patching
> original version to 1.4 requires some works. I have original version. But
> since I got Monster 3D II version I've never play original version again
> because Monster 3D II version is more convenient. It does not need
> to be patched. And the more important thing is, it doesn't ask me US
> Windows!
I can say much about this one, as I am using the US English of Windows 98 SE
and don't have experience with other localized Windows versions.
> I was referring to Monster 3D II edition. I didn't know the existence of
> Battle Zone Gold until now. Is it same thing as Monster 3D II edition?
I do not know. I would assume BZ Gold is Direct3D. Is your Monster3D II
Edition Glide-only, or does it have the option of using D3D as well?
> And Activision says that Japanese language version already contains the
> enhanced graphics file. I've never seen this version before either. Is
> this game translated to Japanese, including text and speech? Is the
> Japanese its version released as late as Gold so Activision had time to
> enhance graphics
Again, I don't have experience with localized games. However, if video games
are anything to go by, the Japanese release could have been delayed six
months to a year just for translation work, never mind the 3D enhancements.
> Is HG also integer based? K6-233 is much faster then Pentium 166 MMX in
> integer(almost doubles Pentium 200MMX). But its floating point is as weak
> as Pentium 166MMX.
I remember hearing that the Heavy Gear engine was actually based on Mercs,
so I would assume it uses full floating-point. I don't actually know if vert
ices can be coded using integers in Glide.
> I think in my system the graphics card limitation is in the
> Rage II chip, not the memory. 4MB 100MHZ SGRAM was good at that days.
> It's even better then Voodoo's 4MB 60MHZ EDORAM!
Your RAM was running at 100 MHz? Mine was running at 66 MHz. Years later,
for curiosity's sake, I tried overclocking it using PowerStrip. The memory
went up to 74 MHz before artifacts started showing in MW2 ATi Edition.
> BTW, about the transparent explosion. It seems that in MW2 3D only 3Dfx
> version and Titanium edition got transparent explosion?
I am not sure. The explosions in MW2 were simple bitmaps with no smoke
transluscency, though I do recall seeing smoke effects in Mercs 1.1
Another version to look out for is the MW2 PowerVR, which also has fog. See:
http://www.geocities.com/mechwarrior2_3d/PowerVR/PVR_11.jpg
> wow! Built in? So is this thing still in service? Since then I've damaged
> 3 MB! Fortunately all my VGA and sound system I used before are all
> addon card.
My IBM Aptiva is still in service as a backup rig; and everything on the
comp, from video chips to CD-ROM drives to floppy drives, are still running
strong. I've since put in the Voodoo3, so the onboard ATi chip was
deactivated automatically. I still use the Aptiva for faxing stuff, because
it is the only comp in my possession that has a dial-up modem.
> Same here. But ATi Mach 64 covers a lot more ATi chips.
> This name isn't as specific as Rage II or Rage II+.
Whatever. ATi in the old days was very muddy when it comes to product
specification, as it tends to custom-build cards for OEMs. Clock speeds were
never guaranteed. In fact, the practice continued up until the Radeon 8500.
> > In game framerates with about five 'Mechs onscreen were ~ 20 fps.
>
> Seems mine is a little faster : )
Mine seemed faster than 20 fps, too, especially since I made Khan fighting
for both Clans. However, with FRAPS, the numbers don't lie. :-)
> Yes. But then what's in the Sony version? Same as v1.1? If it's same as
> v1.1, it's still ok as long as it came before v1.1^^
I have no idea. It may well a simple rebranded Heavy Gear game with the v1.1
patch already applied.
> Now I'm not very sure about this and can not try it either because my Win
> Mercs also require US Windows! It seems that the retailer wanna players
> to play DOS version only as my DOS system is still English. And DOS
> version can not be patched to 3D. Maybe you can tell me more about this
> issue~^
It is true, the v1.1 patch requires DirectX 5.0, which of course rules out
any possibility of running under DOS.
> One question. How do you force on 32bits color? I only know the forcing
> 32 bits can be found in OpenGL.
A distinction has to be made between texture color depth and pixel color
depth. The drop-down menu in the nVidia control panels only specifies the
"default color depth for textures". This means it is possible to run in
16-bit color but use 32-bit textures, which gets dithered down before being
shown on screen.
As far as I know, forcing a color depth in Direct3D simply involves running
your desktop at that resolution.
> And I didn't know there is the MW4 Mercs as well........
There is, and the game doesn't represent much of an improvement over the
original MW4 to justify its pricetag.
> I see. But Voodoo 2 isn't better then Voodoo 1 in terms of image quality.
> Unless there is any way to set MW2 Glide to 1024x768 and can make
> it to run on Voodoo 2 SLI...
MW2 Glide will run on Voodoo2 SLI, but is limited to 800x600.
> I've always consider Voodoo 2 SLI better then
> Voodoo 3 since Voodoo 2 SLI is as fast as Voodoo 3 and have no Voodoo 3
> compatibility problem.
You might be surprised at the number of newer titles that do not give you
the choice of selecting between your primary D3D device and the Voodoo2, at
which point an add-on card becomes troublesome. In an extreme case, MW4
utterly refuses to work with the Voodoo2, even though it runs fine on the
V3.
> But my Voodoo 2 spoiled agaon. Have to get another
> one...
Spoiled? Disk drives and fans eventually die from mechanical wear, but
Voodoo2s have no moving parts. Were you overclocking it too aggressively?
> I don't have Tomb Raider1 and the 3Dfx patch either.....
> Glidos? I knew that but still have no time to do more test of it.
> Have you used it with any DOS Glide games successfully?
I don't have any DOS Glide games, nor do I know any that are really worth
playing. Aside from Tomb Raider, I think Carmageddon used DOS Glide.
> What's the compatibility? If I don't remember wronly, the
> compatibility is: Voodoo 5=Voodoo 3=Banshee=Voodoo Rush < Voodoo
> 2 < Voodoo 1. Where does GeForce sit in?
As far as I know, only Tomb Raider Glide works with the GF3. Carmageddon
might, but to my knowledge nobody has tried.
Red Comet
> "Red Comet" <redc...@magix.com.sg> wrote in message
> news:at2rn3$p18$1...@mawar.singnet.com.sg...
> > May I ask... why did you add MW3 but not MW4?^^
>
> As I said, the last update I made was on Dec 6, 2001, and that only to
> correct a few HTML bugs. I haven't been very diligent with site updates,
and
> I don't consider MW4 to be worthy of its name.
>
But I thought you wouldn't add MW3 as well. Seems MW3 is still ok : )
> > Because it came out lone before 1.4 patch was released! And patching
> > original version to 1.4 requires some works. I have original version.
But
> > since I got Monster 3D II version I've never play original version again
> > because Monster 3D II version is more convenient. It does not need
> > to be patched. And the more important thing is, it doesn't ask me US
> > Windows!
>
> I can say much about this one, as I am using the US English of Windows 98
SE
> and don't have experience with other localized Windows versions.
>
I always have TW Windows(95 OSR2 or 98 First Edition) installed.
Sometimes I also have JP Windows 95 OSR2 installed.
And I only have US Windows installed when I have lots of HDD space or
I really can't resist to thost games which require US Windows~^
Just curious, why did Activision add this thing? No other game company
have done this so far.
> > I was referring to Monster 3D II edition. I didn't know the existence of
> > Battle Zone Gold until now. Is it same thing as Monster 3D II edition?
>
> I do not know. I would assume BZ Gold is Direct3D. Is your Monster3D II
> Edition Glide-only, or does it have the option of using D3D as well?
>
It got D3D support.
> > And Activision says that Japanese language version already contains the
> > enhanced graphics file. I've never seen this version before either. Is
> > this game translated to Japanese, including text and speech? Is the
> > Japanese its version released as late as Gold so Activision had time to
> > enhance graphics
>
> Again, I don't have experience with localized games. However, if video
games
> are anything to go by, the Japanese release could have been delayed six
> months to a year just for translation work, never mind the 3D
enhancements.
>
Then how did Activision have the time to enhance the 3D of Japanese
Battlezone?
I don't have experience with localized games either. In Taiwan the retailer
always
sold English version of games. I think that was because the translation
takes time
or just they were lazy. Most Taiwanese's English level are low. And
Activision's
games have to run in DOS(if the game DO have DOS version...) But I think
today
the translation is much faster today. Most games sold to Taiwan are
translated into
Traditional Chinese. And can release at the same day as US. But I can't get
used
to games being translated unless it's totally a new game. I can shift
between
different generation of games (like MW2, MW3, MW4 or RA1, RA2 or
NFS1, NFS2......etc). easiky. But I can't shift between different version of
language. I won't know most names mentioned in the games. But since
I'm not in Taiwan recent years. The game I've bought were all English.
But this of course makes me facing the problem of the games refuse
to install on my Windows...
> > Is HG also integer based? K6-233 is much faster then Pentium 166 MMX in
> > integer(almost doubles Pentium 200MMX). But its floating point is as
weak
> > as Pentium 166MMX.
>
> I remember hearing that the Heavy Gear engine was actually based on Mercs,
> so I would assume it uses full floating-point. I don't actually know if
vert
> ices can be coded using integers in Glide.
>
I'm not sure about this either.
Mercs engine with Glide? then HG should be same as Titanium??
Forgot to mention one thing. Only pure pipeline FPU benchmark
program shows the weakness of K6. But in real world, games based
on floating point also benefit from high performance integer. I can
remember that when I upgraded from K6-233(running at 2.5x100)
to K6-2-550(running at 5x115), all games runs much faster(which is
of course, the clockrate increased so much). And later when I
upgraded from the K6-2-550 to K6-2+450 (running at 5.5x110),
again, my systems running all the same games faster. The clockrate
of the K6-2 and the K6-2+ are almost the same. The only difference
are just additional 128k Level 2 cache was included into K6-2+. That
makes K6-2+ have vast improvement in theoryinteger performance
benchmark. But in theory floating performance benchmark K6-2+ is a
little weaker then K6-2(I really don't know why, have to ask AMD: )).
All these K6s are still in working condition but no longer in service
since all my Socket 7 board were spoiled..............
> > I think in my system the graphics card limitation is in the
> > Rage II chip, not the memory. 4MB 100MHZ SGRAM was good at that days.
> > It's even better then Voodoo's 4MB 60MHZ EDORAM!
>
> Your RAM was running at 100 MHz? Mine was running at 66 MHz. Years later,
> for curiosity's sake, I tried overclocking it using PowerStrip. The memory
> went up to 74 MHz before artifacts started showing in MW2 ATi Edition.
>
I'm wondering why ATi installed such a fast RAM with such a slow chip since
since I've bought the card: )
The RAM is even faster then Voodoo 2's 100MHZ EDORAM. Only
disadvantage to Voodoo 2 is that Voodoo 2 got much more memory(4MB vs
12MB). And another 4MB can be added to the card (installed as a doughter
card) so totally 8MB would be very huge at that days, although the cost was
high and I've never add the additional 4MB...
Maybe that's because my card was designed for professional 3D work?
Seems I've bought the right card(^^) although it cost me quite a lot. And
I can say I've bought the wrong card as well since it doesn't have MW2
Rage CIF bundled(I think you've already known this.) But this isn't the
problem anymore since I've gotten MW2 Rage CIF in another way~^^
I've never tried to overclock the memory since the limitation is on the
chip, not the memory. I've tried to overclock the chip. But could not
overclock even 2MHz..
> > BTW, about the transparent explosion. It seems that in MW2 3D only 3Dfx
> > version and Titanium edition got transparent explosion?
>
> I am not sure. The explosions in MW2 were simple bitmaps with no smoke
> transluscency, though I do recall seeing smoke effects in Mercs 1.1
>
Take a look at this.
This is the explosion in PowerVR SGL Edition.
http://www.geocities.com/mechwarrior2_3d/PowerVR/PVR_14.jpg
And this is the explosion in Voodoo Glide Edition
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/24a183f6/bc/%a7%da%aa%ba%ac%db%c3%af/__hr_sna
pshot06.jpg?bcBVh99AKayFYAPb
The Voodoo Edition looks better and is similar to whatever Mercs D3D or
Titanium, isn't it?
By far I've only seen Vooodoo Glide Edition got alpha blending (now I'm only
talking about
the customized 3D version, not Mercs D3D or Titanium).
> Another version to look out for is the MW2 PowerVR, which also has fog.
See:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/mechwarrior2_3d/PowerVR/PVR_11.jpg
>
Yes, I think PowerVR SGL is as good as the number one Voodoo Glide Edition
just because the fog effect. Without the fog the PowerVR SGL Edition won't
be that good anymore. But Voodoo definitely can do fog and its fog was
the best during that days. Why do the Voodoo Glide Edition not have fog
effect?
> > wow! Built in? So is this thing still in service? Since then I've
damaged
> > 3 MB! Fortunately all my VGA and sound system I used before are all
^^^^^^^<-MB=Mainboard......
> > addon card.
>
> My IBM Aptiva is still in service as a backup rig; and everything on the
> comp, from video chips to CD-ROM drives to floppy drives, are still
running
> strong. I've since put in the Voodoo3, so the onboard ATi chip was
> deactivated automatically. I still use the Aptiva for faxing stuff,
because
> it is the only comp in my possession that has a dial-up modem.
>
So your system is more convenient. When you wanna use ATi Rage you just
enable it again and then Voodoo 3 will be disabled right?
Most the hardwares since I've played MW2 are no longer in service.
Hmmm... they are:
486-DX4-120MHz(Spoilet within 12months, I think it was burnt)
The MB was retired since there was no more 486.
Seagate 850MB HDDx2 (First one burnt within 13months and the second one
stopped working after 4 years)(Don't know what happened to second one)
Torisan 4x CDROM(I love this one, it's made in Japan and was in service
until
2000. Have retired Just because it's too slow)(Ok, this one is still
alive^^)
ET4000 W32PCI was retired with 486. Still working but no longer in use. And
installing it on my K6-2 MB GA-5AX-4 can only be used in DOS. System just
hang after entering Windows. So I'm not sure if this one can be defined as
"still
alive or not"
After the 486 I got a 586-VX with K5-PR90 and ET6000 2.25MB.
The 586VX and K5-PR90 were retired because they are slow and they are
still alive but no longer in service. ET6000 is still in service now(The
system
is hooked with Magic 3D II which is a Voodoo 2 12MB)
Another maching...After my K6-233 with GA-586-TX2 was hit by
CIH, I replaced the MB with GA-AX-4. And after GA-586-TX2 was
repaired the MB was sent to above machine and running with a K6-2-450
(@ 6x66=400). The MB was spoiled this year. The CPU was retired because
it have no MB. System have upgraded to Morgan 1.2G.
SB16 was retired because there is no more ISA with new MB.
The K6-233 system with GA-586-TX2 with 3D Pro Turbo is the machine
you've already known. This PC is only used by myself.
K6-233 fake dead after 3 years service so was replaced to K6-2-550. (It
resuscitated a month later)
Because I thought Socket 7 would disappear soon, I got a K6-2+ to extent
the life of the system.
First GA-5AX-4 was spoilt. I think GeForce 256 drains too much power
from the MB......GeForce 256 was sold since the replacement GA-5AX-4
can not run GeForce 256 in 3D. 2D is ok, but 3D will just cause system
crash. GeForce 256 was changed to GeForce 2 GTS.
Second GA-5AX-4 was killed by my Sound Blaster Live Platium card(!).
This machine's CDROM was NEC 24tw. It was bad. After 10 months
I tried to overclock its laser head and made it burnt. I was happy with
the result because it was really bad: )
Later changed to Aopen 48tw and after 3 years service I gave it to my
friend.
Still in service. I changed to Lite-On 16xDVD.
I had 6 HDD spoilt on this machine...
Display cards are all still working except 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV's tvout was
spoilt.
2 Voodoo 2 and 1 Terasound A3D PCI(AU8820 reference card) was spoilt.
The Terasound A3D PCI was spoilt in 1 hour~^^
And the replacement worked for over 3 years and was replaced by MX300. Still
working.
Voodoo 2 will be talked later: )
> > Same here. But ATi Mach 64 covers a lot more ATi chips.
> > This name isn't as specific as Rage II or Rage II+.
>
> Whatever. ATi in the old days was very muddy when it comes to product
> specification, as it tends to custom-build cards for OEMs. Clock speeds
were
> never guaranteed. In fact, the practice continued up until the Radeon
8500.
>
I think Radeon 9xxx is still the same. Radeon 9000 and Radeon 9000 Pro are
just
modified Radeon 8500 and is weaker then Radeon 8500 in most cases.
But anyway todays ATi do much more clear then several years ago.
Remember how many Rage II there were? : )
> > > In game framerates with about five 'Mechs onscreen were ~ 20 fps.
> >
> > Seems mine is a little faster : )
>
> Mine seemed faster than 20 fps, too, especially since I made Khan fighting
> for both Clans. However, with FRAPS, the numbers don't lie. :-)
>
I haven't do FRAPS again since I upgraded my system again. After my 5AX-4
was
killed by Live, I changed to Abit KT7A and Athlon XP 1600+(1400MHz
running at 10.5x165=1733MHz at max 1.85v,lazy to test, just use max voltage
the
MB offers). This time the CPU will be never an issue : )
> > Yes. But then what's in the Sony version? Same as v1.1? If it's same as
> > v1.1, it's still ok as long as it came before v1.1^^
>
> I have no idea. It may well a simple rebranded Heavy Gear game with the
v1.1
> patch already applied.
>
But if it came after the 1.1 patch, I won't call it Sony 3D Enhanced Edition
because it was not created solely for Sony.
> > Now I'm not very sure about this and can not try it either because my
Win
> > Mercs also require US Windows! It seems that the retailer wanna players
> > to play DOS version only as my DOS system is still English. And DOS
> > version can not be patched to 3D. Maybe you can tell me more about this
> > issue~^
>
> It is true, the v1.1 patch requires DirectX 5.0, which of course rules out
> any possibility of running under DOS.
>
If I don't remember wronly, early Mercs D3D requires Direct 3D 2.0. Which
also can not run under DOS.
Some correction to my previous post, I said:
Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got better shading of
Mechs. Titanium had no shading.
It must be:
Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got dynamic shading of
Mechs. Titanium had no dynamic shading.
Maybe this will be more clear...
> > One question. How do you force on 32bits color? I only know the forcing
> > 32 bits can be found in OpenGL.
>
> A distinction has to be made between texture color depth and pixel color
> depth. The drop-down menu in the nVidia control panels only specifies the
> "default color depth for textures". This means it is possible to run in
> 16-bit color but use 32-bit textures, which gets dithered down before
being
> shown on screen.
>
> As far as I know, forcing a color depth in Direct3D simply involves
running
> your desktop at that resolution.
>
This thing is only available under OpenGL in my system.
What version of nVidia driver are using? It's really good that
D3D can also force to 32 bits...
> > And I didn't know there is the MW4 Mercs as well........
>
> There is, and the game doesn't represent much of an improvement over the
> original MW4 to justify its pricetag.
>
Seems I don't have bother to get anything about MW4 Mercs : )
> > I see. But Voodoo 2 isn't better then Voodoo 1 in terms of image
quality.
> > Unless there is any way to set MW2 Glide to 1024x768 and can make
> > it to run on Voodoo 2 SLI...
>
> MW2 Glide will run on Voodoo2 SLI, but is limited to 800x600.
>
Then there is no sense to run MW2 Glide with Voodoo 2 SLI since
resolution does not raise and single Voodoo 2's speed is far more enough for
MW2 Glide. Maybe we can still considering additional heat as advantage, when
playing this game in Winter : )
> > I've always consider Voodoo 2 SLI better then
> > Voodoo 3 since Voodoo 2 SLI is as fast as Voodoo 3 and have no Voodoo 3
> > compatibility problem.
>
> You might be surprised at the number of newer titles that do not give you
> the choice of selecting between your primary D3D device and the Voodoo2,
at
> which point an add-on card becomes troublesome.
I haven't encounter any problem with this issue. Because I only use primary
card to run these newer games as Voodoo 2 can not even pass the minumum
requirement in them. Todays games requires at least GeForce 3 Ti200(!).
Radeon DDR 32MB(I think ATi call it Radeon 7200 now?) can't run NFS5
at all....And if Voodoo 2 really prevents some games to use primary display
card,
what I should do is just remove Voodoo 2's drivers and make it as unknown
device in Windows. Removing and reinstalling Voodoo 2's driver is very easy.
Only Voodoo 2 is affected. Addon card is easy to deal with. It can just sit
there
and do nothing. Unlike display cards, changing them require much more works.
And most of the time I just have Glide installed. No Direct X driver
installed.
Voodoo 2 was used as a Glide only card to support GeForce which don't
have Glide.
> In an extreme case, MW4
> utterly refuses to work with the Voodoo2, even though it runs fine on the
> V3.
>
This is a strange game. I've ever run MW4 with Monster 3D II for first time.
It's slow though. And later MW4 says the 3D device does not pass minimum
requirement. I'm not suprise since Voodoo 2 is really outdated for MW4, in
terms of speed and texture memory and 3D features. And 3dfx had dropped
the future driver development of Voodoo 2(even before 3dfx was gone),
Voodoo 2 have no perfect working DX8 drivers. Anyway At the time
I got MW4, I've already gotten GeForce 2 GTS: )
> > But my Voodoo 2 spoiled agaon. Have to get another
> > one...
>
> Spoiled? Disk drives and fans eventually die from mechanical wear, but
> Voodoo2s have no moving parts. Were you overclocking it too aggressively?
>
I do overclock my first Monster 3D II since that was my fastest 3D card at
that
time. I ran it at 105MHz and with no problem. Monster 3D II was known to
be the most overclockable. Monster 3D II can even run at Powerstrip's limit:
110 MHz without any problem. This card was damaged because of my fault.
Back to that day....I haven't played any 3D games since I reconfiguredmy PC
and re-installed the Windows. So the monitor cable is on 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV.
After 3 days, I wanna play 3D games. I just pull the monitor cable out,
installed
the loopcable, and plug the monitor cable into Monster 3D II, things
happened.
My PC just reboot. I think there was short circuit. But I thought normal
circuit
should not be any problem so I didn't check. I just powerdown the PC and
installed the cable well but did not play any 3D games since then. After a
few
days when I played 3D with Monster 3D II, I just got green screen. Seems
the 2D pass through isn't affected but 3D frame buffer is damaged. Diamond
was so kindly they replaced another Monster 3D II to me. I no longer
overclock this one because since I lost the Voodoo 2, I can't wait for the
replacement to come so I just bought a CL Savage 4 Pro AGP 32MB. After
1 month Savage 4 Pro AGP 32MB fake death. I didn't know that... (After
about one year the Creative staff told me the Savage 4 Pro resuscitated in
their later test) so I took it to Creative. Creative was no longer producing
Savage 4 Pro. They move the production line to GeForce 256 and GeForce
DDR. So I top up and upgrade. Since then I no longer use Monster 3D II in
D3D and OpenGL because even a Savage 4 Pro can do better in this.
Voodoo series lacks too much 3D features like only 16 bits rendering, only
256x256 texture resolution, and only 12MB of memory(Voodoo 3 only
16MB). So as a Glide only card, Voodoo 2 is far more then enough.
Even a 50MHz Voodoo 1 is ok except that Voodoo 1 has only 4MB RAM.
So I run the replacement Monster 3D II 12MB at Powerstrip's low limite which
is 80MHz(I've ever tried to doanclock to 60MHz using other utility but seems
non sense since Voodoo 2 running at 80MHz is very cool already). But don't
know why this Monster 3D II gave me odd lines after several months. I
downclock it and have very good cooling system for my PC(the cooling
system was upgraded for GeForce 256, the hottest VGA chip ever made).
The replacement Monster 3D II worked in excellent environment. Haven't
contact Diamond for this issue.
> > I don't have Tomb Raider1 and the 3Dfx patch either.....
> > Glidos? I knew that but still have no time to do more test of it.
> > Have you used it with any DOS Glide games successfully?
>
> I don't have any DOS Glide games, nor do I know any that are really worth
> playing. Aside from Tomb Raider, I think Carmageddon used DOS Glide.
>
EF2000 Graphics Plus uses DOS Glide and DOS Verite(don't know the name. I
know Rendition Redline but it's for Windows). And some racing games which
utilizes DOS Glide and Verite and some even Mystique. I'm not sure if I can
call
them DOS Glide because these DOS Glide games talk directly to Voodoo 1.
So some of them are hard to run on even a Voodoo 2(required lots of SST
setting)
and some even can not detect a Voodoo 2. I have Carmageddon but I don't
think
its graphics worth the Glide. Looks like it's a DX3 or DX5 game.
BTW, in those days ATi Rage is really rarely used.
> > What's the compatibility? If I don't remember wronly, the
> > compatibility is: Voodoo 5=Voodoo 3=Banshee=Voodoo Rush < Voodoo
> > 2 < Voodoo 1. Where does GeForce sit in?
>
> As far as I know, only Tomb Raider Glide works with the GF3. Carmageddon
> might, but to my knowledge nobody has tried.
>
That's why I still keep my Voodoo 1 until now. I need it to run DOS Glide
games. I don't even need to install any driver for Voodoo 1. Just like
the Sound Blaster 16, games talk directly to them. Voodoo 2 is like
Sound Blaster AWE64 working as SB16 compatiable, AWE64 have to
set blaster like Voodoo 2/3/5's set SST, but is fully compatiable with
SB16.
First of One
> But I thought you wouldn't add MW3 as well. Seems MW3 is still ok : )
I consider MW3 to be better than MW4 in regards to realism. In fact, I will
probably be adding Pirate's Moon screenshots to the site in due time. The
weapons and explosion effects in the MW3 expansion pack are unmatched to
this day.
> Just curious, why did Activision add this thing? No other game company
> have done this so far.
I think it may have something to do with the localized DirectX versions.
MW2, Mercs, HG, and HG2 all read the control config button names from
DirectX. The Polish version of Windows can also run all Activision games. A
friend of mine in Poland once tried the HG2 demo. When he went in the
options menus to customize controls, instead of showing Backspace, the game
showed something like "kasowania".
> It got D3D support.
The BZGold may well be the same as the Monster3D II version, if not even
more developed. One way to check is to see if all the bugs fixed by the 1.4
patch are still present in the Monster3D II version.
> I think that was because the translation takes time
> or just they were lazy.
Or simply because translating into a non-European character set (CJK,
Arabic) is more difficult.
> The game I've bought were all English.
> But this of course makes me facing the problem of the games refuse
> to install on my Windows...
You seem to have gone through a lot of hardware upgrades over the years.
Have you thought about simply adding another hard drive with the US version
of Win98SE installed on it? Hard drive prices are pretty low right now, and
it would solve all your problems.
> All these K6s are still in working condition but no longer in service
> since all my Socket 7 board were spoiled
You seem to have "spoiled" a lot of hardware. How did they happen? In six
years I have never, ever, seen any piece of hardware damaged electrically.
Right now I am running an Elitegroup K7S5A, 1.4 GHz Athlon and a Geforce3
off a no-name 250 W power supply, a combination that most people say
shouldn't work.
> I'm wondering why ATi installed such a fast RAM with such a slow chip
> since since I've bought the card: )
> The RAM is even faster then Voodoo 2's 100MHZ EDORAM.
The RAM ran at 90 MHz on 3dfx's later reference board, the Voodoo2 1000 PCI.
Was Diamond producing cards with higher-clocked memory?
> disadvantage to Voodoo 2 is that Voodoo 2 got much more memory(4MB vs
> 12MB). And another 4MB can be added to the card (installed as a doughter
> card) so totally 8MB would be very huge at that days, although the cost
> was high and I've never add the additional 4MB...
The Voodoo2 also has twice the memory bandwidth once it is put in SLI mode.
> Maybe that's because my card was designed for professional 3D work?
> Seems I've bought the right card(^^) although it cost me quite a lot.
It's possible, as ATi only released OpenGL drivers for the Rage II for
Windows NT. Most workstation apps are geometry-intensive, so the limit is
usually placed on the CPU.
> And this is the explosion in Voodoo Glide Edition
>
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/24a183f6/bc/%a7%da%aa%ba%ac%db%c3%af/__hr_sna
> pshot06.jpg?bcBVh99AKayFYAPb
I cannot access this web page (yes, I did remove the '>' in the middle).
> Yes, I think PowerVR SGL is as good as the number one Voodoo Glide Edition
> just because the fog effect. Without the fog the PowerVR SGL Edition won't
> be that good anymore. But Voodoo definitely can do fog and its fog was
> the best during that days. Why do the Voodoo Glide Edition not have fog
> effect?
I do not know. Obviously the legendary 3dfx Voodoo1 could put it off without
trouble. Fog wasn't there to look pretty, but was used as a tool to hide
nasty polygon pop-ups at the distance. The Glide Edition came out earlier
than the PowerVR Edition, I think, which means the developers may not have
been aware of this trick when coding the 3dfx Edition.
> So your system is more convenient. When you wanna use ATi Rage you just
> enable it again and then Voodoo 3 will be disabled right?
Neg. The onboard ATi Rage is *automatically* disabled in hardware when I put
in a discrete video card. To play MW2 ATi Edition, I have to physically
remove the Voodoo3; even disabling it in Device Manager will not do.
> I think Radeon 9xxx is still the same. Radeon 9000 and Radeon 9000 Pro are
> just modified Radeon 8500 and is weaker then Radeon 8500 in most cases.
Which is exactly when the Radeon 8500 has been outright relabeled as the
Radeon 9100 to "avoid" confusion.
> But anyway todays ATi do much more clear then several years ago.
> Remember how many Rage II there were? : )
:-) Even more, considering the Rage Pro did not really introduce more
features, just a higher clock speed.
> I haven't do FRAPS again since I upgraded my system again. After my 5AX-4
> was killed by Live, I changed to Abit KT7A and Athlon XP 1600+(1400MHz
> running at 10.5x165=1733MHz at max 1.85v,lazy to test, just use max
> voltage the MB offers). This time the CPU will be never an issue : )
The KT7A was probably one of the best KT133A boards. Cool. Do you have a
decent power supply to handle the juice?
> If I don't remember wronly, early Mercs D3D requires Direct 3D 2.0. Which
> also can not run under DOS.
Direct3D wasn't available in DirectX 2.0, I think, but was DirectDraw was.
> Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got dynamic shading of
> Mechs. Titanium had no dynamic shading.
> Maybe this will be more clear...
What the hell? One step forward, two steps back? On the other hand, I recall
Mercs 1.1 D3D slowed down a bit whenever explosions and other fireworks lit
up the screen. Maybe Titanium will run faster?
> This thing is only available under OpenGL in my system.
> What version of nVidia driver are using? It's really good that
> D3D can also force to 32 bits...
You may have misunderstood me, or maybe I wasn't too clear. Games cannot be
forced into 32-bits unless you have a Voodoo5. On nVidia cards, if the game
doesn't care about color depth, it automatically takes on the desktop color
depth.
> Then there is no sense to run MW2 Glide with Voodoo 2 SLI since
> resolution does not raise and single Voodoo 2's speed is far more enough
> for MW2 Glide. Maybe we can still considering additional heat as
advantage,
> when playing this game in Winter : )
Oh, you'll never know. At 640x480, games are usually CPU-constrained, but I
don't expect MW2 to choke on a 1+ GHz Athlon. V2 SLI may mean the difference
between 80 and 150 fps. :-)
> Addon card is easy to deal with. It can just sit there and do nothing.
> Unlike display cards, changing them require much more works. And
> most of the time I just have Glide installed. No DirectX driver installed.
> Voodoo 2 was used as a Glide only card to support GeForce which don't
> have Glide.
Aff, you really do seem to have the best of both worlds... though 2D suffers
a little with the pass-through cable. Are you using a custom shielded cable,
or the one supplied by Diamond?
P.S. The message is getting crazy long. :-)
--
First of One, Primary Adjunctive Grid Alpha-01
Remove "NOT" from Email Address to Reply
Red Comet
> "Red Comet" <redc...@magix.com.sg> wrote in message
> news:at5966$g2u$1...@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
> > But I thought you wouldn't add MW3 as well. Seems MW3 is still ok : )
>
> I consider MW3 to be better than MW4 in regards to realism. In fact, I
will
> probably be adding Pirate's Moon screenshots to the site in due time.
That will be nice : )
> The weapons and explosion effects in the MW3 expansion pack are unmatched
to
> this day.
>
Do you mean that MW3 Pirate's Moon looks much better then MW3 original
or even better then MW4?? I don't have Pirate's Moon, seems I missed a great
Mech Warrior game?
> > Just curious, why did Activision add this thing? No other game company
> > have done this so far.
>
> I think it may have something to do with the localized DirectX versions.
> MW2, Mercs, HG, and HG2 all read the control config button names from
> DirectX.
hmm... but I always use US Direct X since they release earlier
then localized DirectX. But Activision games still refuse to install
on my system.
> The Polish version of Windows can also run all Activision games. A
> friend of mine in Poland once tried the HG2 demo. When he went in the
> options menus to customize controls, instead of showing Backspace, the
game
> showed something like "kasowania".
>
That's amazing! Could it be Polish is also single byte while Japanese
or Taiwanese are two bytes which can not be read by Activision
games? I've never tried other single bytes language Windows since
the only single bytes language I know is English. And I've never seen
other single bytes language Windows available in either Singapore or
Taiwan.
> > It got D3D support.
>
> The BZGold may well be the same as the Monster3D II version, if not even
> more developed. One way to check is to see if all the bugs fixed by the
1.4
> patch are still present in the Monster3D II version.
>
Can't get you here.....so I may not be able to answer your question
but give you other comments instead..I think you are just asking if
Monster 3D II version contain the bugs fixed by 1.4 right? I did
not pay attention to non-technical related bugs. For the technical
bugs, I don't remember I've encountered to any.
> > I think that was because the translation takes time
> > or just they were lazy.
>
> Or simply because translating into a non-European character set (CJK,
> Arabic) is more difficult.
>
Could be. And that may harder then just translating since that
may have something to do with coding.
> > The game I've bought were all English.
> > But this of course makes me facing the problem of the games refuse
> > to install on my Windows...
>
> You seem to have gone through a lot of hardware upgrades over the years.
Yes: )
> Have you thought about simply adding another hard drive with the US
version
> of Win98SE installed on it? Hard drive prices are pretty low right now,
and
> it would solve all your problems.
>
Yes, I did that before. But I'm looking for a more simple way to play
original Activision games so I can play their games on my current system,
no matter what this Windows 9x is, just like other company's games. So
I can start original Activision games just after playing other company's
games or just after work.
> > All these K6s are still in working condition but no longer in service
> > since all my Socket 7 board were spoiled
>
> You seem to have "spoiled" a lot of hardware. How did they happen? In six
> years I have never, ever, seen any piece of hardware damaged electrically.
Some were my fault. But for the others I'm not sure what happened.
Those electrically damaged components are:
486-DX4-120MHz. Could be burnt. I didn't use good HSF at that days.
But the interesting things are the K5-PR90 also used a similar HSF and
still working. The K6-233, one of the hottest Socket 7 CPU, I bought
this CPU just after it released onto market. I bought the best HSF
available that time which was for Cyrix MII. But this CPU is hotter then
M II so it worked at at least 65 degree Celsius. And the fan stopped
working after one year. K6-233 was run at 133MHz at 2.3V just with the
heatsink for a month. After the HSF was replaced with a better one(this
one was designed for hot K6 : )) the CPU ran at lower temperature so I
overclocked this CPU at 250MHz(2.5x100) at 3.4V. After 3 years of
service in high temperature it's still alive!!
First Monster 3D II was damaged by my misuse. But quite a lot of
people do change the VGA cable with the computer on and didn't
encounter to any problem.
For second Monster 3D II, I really don't know what happened, I
downclock it to 80MHz since I no longer run D3D or OpenGL games
with it. 80MHz is enough for Glide games. And I have very good cooling
configuration so it shouldn't be burnt. This Monster 3D II can still run but
with odd lines on screen when running 3D with it.
First GA-5AX-4 was killed by GeForce 256. Yes, I shouldn't put GeForce
256 to this MB. GeForce 256 drains to much power from the MB so the
MB was spoilt.
Second GA-5AX-4 was killed by Sound Blaster Live Platinum, the card.
When I put the sound card into a PCI, the machine suddenly boot up and
the MB was spoilt.
GA-586-TX2 and first Terasound A3D PCI was spoilt with no known
reason. There isn't any visible damage can be seen with all these things.
Oh, I had two harddisks also damaged electrically. Their PCB was dead,
but the drive itself was ok. Replacing the PCB made the two harddisks
running again. But the death to the PCB of the two HDD was my mistake.
I had my PC casing short circuit. Although that was only less then a
second and just 12V, the two PCB still spoilt.
> Right now I am running an Elitegroup K7S5A, 1.4 GHz Athlon and a Geforce3
> off a no-name 250 W power supply, a combination that most people say
> shouldn't work.
>
Actually, my PC is similar. My power supplier is "Taiwan Young Year" 250W.
I bought it in Singapore and it's made in Taiwan. But I've never heard about
this company. Before I changed to Athlon XP, I thought this power supplier
might not have enough power to run my new kits.
> > I'm wondering why ATi installed such a fast RAM with such a slow chip
> > since since I've bought the card: )
> > The RAM is even faster then Voodoo 2's 100MHZ EDORAM.
>
> The RAM ran at 90 MHz on 3dfx's later reference board, the Voodoo2 1000
PCI.
> Was Diamond producing cards with higher-clocked memory?
>
I didn't know this! I thought all Voodoo 2s are equal! I only know that
both my Monster 3D IIs are equipped with 100MHz EDO RAM chips.
But Diamond did "overclock" the Monster 3D II a little. The default
core speed of Monster 3D II is 93MHz. I'll check my brother's Skywell
Magic 3D II 12MB once I am at home during Lunar New Year. The
Magic 3D II 12MB was a very late version. At the time my brother
bought the Magc 3D II, Voodoo 3 was available to market for a while.
I do have a 3dfx Voodoo 3 3000(AGP, TV out). But I still like Voodoo
2s more.
> > disadvantage to Voodoo 2 is that Voodoo 2 got much more memory(4MB vs
> > 12MB). And another 4MB can be added to the card (installed as a doughter
> > card) so totally 8MB would be very huge at that days, although the cost
> > was high and I've never add the additional 4MB...
>
> The Voodoo2 also has twice the memory bandwidth once it is put in SLI
mode.
>
And a single Voodoo 2 already gets 192bits(!) memory bandwidth due to
its multi chip design.
> > Maybe that's because my card was designed for professional 3D work?
> > Seems I've bought the right card(^^) although it cost me quite a lot.
>
> It's possible, as ATi only released OpenGL drivers for the Rage II for
> Windows NT. Most workstation apps are geometry-intensive, so the limit is
> usually placed on the CPU.
>
Yes. My Rage II even accelerates Windows NT4.0's OpenGL screen saver (
no acceleration on Win9X). And it's the only 3D chip can do this among all
display cards I have. But the 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV can't run Quake II well.
It's dark and slow(with K6-233, I got 1 frame in about 2 to 3 seconds).
Unlike workstation apps, games like Quake II require huge fillrate which
exceed the limit of Rage II.
> > And this is the explosion in Voodoo Glide Edition
> >
>
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/24a183f6/bc/%a7%da%aa%ba%ac%db%c3%af/__hr_sna
> > pshot06.jpg?bcBVh99AKayFYAPb
>
> I cannot access this web page (yes, I did remove the '>' in the middle).
>
Now I can't access it, either... sorry about that. I don't know what
happened.
Here is the new link:
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/24a183f6/bc/%a7%da%aa%ba%ac%db%c3%af/__hr_sna
pshot06.jpg?bcQOj_9AdEdQYAPb
> > Yes, I think PowerVR SGL is as good as the number one Voodoo Glide
Edition
> > just because the fog effect. Without the fog the PowerVR SGL Edition
won't
> > be that good anymore. But Voodoo definitely can do fog and its fog was
> > the best during that days. Why do the Voodoo Glide Edition not have fog
> > effect?
>
> I do not know. Obviously the legendary 3dfx Voodoo1 could put it off
without
> trouble. Fog wasn't there to look pretty, but was used as a tool to hide
> nasty polygon pop-ups at the distance. The Glide Edition came out earlier
> than the PowerVR Edition, I think, which means the developers may not have
> been aware of this trick when coding the 3dfx Edition.
>
Could be. And yes, fog was a useful tool to hide pop-ups during those days
CPU didn't have enough power to render full distance. But fog can also
nice for creating some atmosphere effects like haze, desert storm, snow
storm...etc. Original MW2 has some scenes which looks like desert storm.
But all 3D version doesn't have these effects . In the same scene the
weather looks just too clear. And PowerVR SGL version looks just
like we are in forest since what we see isn't sand storm but haze instead.
I love fog effects, in real world and 3D world. That's why when I chose to
buy a new 3D card to replace my Rage II I just simply chose Voodoo 1.
It has the best fog. Unlike today, it's much harder to choses a new 3D card
since they are so similar. Of course there are other reasons why I chose
Voodoo 1 like it's less CPU dependent, it has best alpha blending, and it
has best texture quality in its days. Of course the drawback is the
resolution being locked at 640x480(z).
> > So your system is more convenient. When you wanna use ATi Rage you just
> > enable it again and then Voodoo 3 will be disabled right?
>
> Neg. The onboard ATi Rage is *automatically* disabled in hardware when I
put
> in a discrete video card. To play MW2 ATi Edition, I have to physically
> remove the Voodoo3; even disabling it in Device Manager will not do.
>
So your system is only a little more convenient then mine since you don't
have to remove and re-install the Rage but just the Voodoo 3: )
BTW, faxing stuff isn't available on ADSL either:~
> > I think Radeon 9xxx is still the same. Radeon 9000 and Radeon 9000 Pro
are
> > just modified Radeon 8500 and is weaker then Radeon 8500 in most cases.
>
> Which is exactly when the Radeon 8500 has been outright relabeled as the
> Radeon 9100 to "avoid" confusion.
>
But that may introduce more confusion. Last time ATi had a new naming
method which has four digits and the first one means Direct X version, the
3 digits means its class and speed. So at that time there was Radeon 8500,
Radeon 7500. And the Radeon DDR was renamed Radeon 7200. That
seems a good start. But that may make some people think that Radeon
9000 is better then Radeon 8500 at least Radeon 9000 should have Direct
X 9 capabilities. Oh... wait... nVidia also rush in! The GeForce "4" MX : )
> > But anyway todays ATi do much more clear then several years ago.
> > Remember how many Rage II there were? : )
>
> :-) Even more, considering the Rage Pro did not really introduce more
> features, just a higher clock speed.
>
How about including Rage I : )
> > I haven't do FRAPS again since I upgraded my system again. After my
5AX-4
> > was killed by Live, I changed to Abit KT7A and Athlon XP 1600+(1400MHz
> > running at 10.5x165=1733MHz at max 1.85v,lazy to test, just use max
> > voltage the MB offers). This time the CPU will be never an issue : )
>
> The KT7A was probably one of the best KT133A boards. Cool. Do you have a
> decent power supply to handle the juice?
>
I knew that this MB may be one of the best just after I bought the it. I
was just seeking for a MB which has at least 5 PCI, 1 ISA, 3 SDR
SDRAM, supporting Athlon XP and is made in Taiwan: )
I just use the power supplier I mentioned above, the 250W power
supplier made by "Taiwan Young Year" : )
> > If I don't remember wronly, early Mercs D3D requires Direct 3D 2.0.
Which
> > also can not run under DOS.
>
> Direct3D wasn't available in DirectX 2.0, I think, but was DirectDraw was.
>
Typo...I wanna say Direct X 3.0..
> > Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got dynamic shading of
> > Mechs. Titanium had no dynamic shading.
> > Maybe this will be more clear...
>
> What the hell? One step forward, two steps back?
er..still can't get me?
> On the other hand, I recall Mercs 1.1 D3D slowed down a bit whenever
> explosions and other fireworks lit up the screen. Maybe Titanium will run
faster?
>
Now I'm not sure now. Quite long time not playing these games.
And my Voodoo 1 does not work on my system from several
months ago. Though my Voodoo 1 does work on my friend's
PC. Now my system can not even run MW2 Titanium with
GeForce 3 TI200. I think my Windows is corrupt(as usual).
I can't test these games until next re-installation of my Windows.
Do you have MW2 Titanium? If yes, you can have some test.
I haven't run this game with Athlon XP yet. And does Mercs D3D
slow down a lot with your Athlon? I can remember that Mercs
D3D slow down to below 10 fps with K6-233. Can't remember
how it runs with all my newer CPUs...
> > This thing is only available under OpenGL in my system.
> > What version of nVidia driver are using? It's really good that
> > D3D can also force to 32 bits...
>
> You may have misunderstood me, or maybe I wasn't too clear. Games cannot
> be forced into 32-bits unless you have a Voodoo5. On nVidia cards, if the
> gamedoesn't care about color depth, it automatically takes on the desktop
> colordepth.
>
Unfortunately it seems that all my D3D games care about color depth.
So if there is no option to change color depth, I can only run the game
at 16 bits. I would use Voodoo 2 to run those 16 bits only games.
But OpenGL games seems don't care about color depth. I can run them
in true color if nVidia driver set properly.
I always use 32bits color desktop.
> > Then there is no sense to run MW2 Glide with Voodoo 2 SLI since
> > resolution does not raise and single Voodoo 2's speed is far more enough
> > for MW2 Glide. Maybe we can still considering additional heat as
> advantage,
> > when playing this game in Winter : )
>
> Oh, you'll never know. At 640x480, games are usually CPU-constrained, but
I
> don't expect MW2 to choke on a 1+ GHz Athlon. V2 SLI may mean the
difference
> between 80 and 150 fps. :-)
>
But who can actually see the difference between 80 and 150fps? : )
> > Addon card is easy to deal with. It can just sit there and do nothing.
> > Unlike display cards, changing them require much more works. And
> > most of the time I just have Glide installed. No DirectX driver
installed.
> > Voodoo 2 was used as a Glide only card to support GeForce which don't
> > have Glide.
>
Some correction to previous post...
"Todays games requires at least GeForce 3 Ti200(!). Radeon DDR
32MB(I think ATi call it Radeon 7200 now?) can't run NFS5 at all"
It should be NFS6(Need for Speed 6, or Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2),
not NFS5. Radeon DDR isn't that bad : )
> Aff, you really do seem to have the best of both worlds... though 2D
suffers
> a little with the pass-through cable. Are you using a custom shielded
cable,
> or the one supplied by Diamond?
>
Yes. 3Dfx(not 3dfx^^) Glide was so great. For Voodoo 1~Voodoo 2 era games,
I would use Glide if available. I don't use those game's D3D. And I haven't
found any perfect Glide emulator. So hooking a Voodoo 2 to GeForce is the
best solution now: )
I'm using the cable supplied by Diamond. It's much better then others'
pass-through cables. And the Monster 3D II itself is also better. It affects
less then other Voodoo 2s do. I love Diamond. But when looking at
MX25, I can only say, what a pity. It should have more features other
then SPDIF coaxial out. It's really pity that Diamond no longer
produce 3D cards and sound cards. So as Aureal. MX300 is the best.
I bought Live Platinum just because the Live Drive II, not the card itself~^
> P.S. The message is getting crazy long. :-)
>
Indeed : )
First of One
> > I consider MW3 to be better than MW4 in regards to realism. In fact, I
> > will probably be adding Pirate's Moon screenshots to the site in due
time.
>
> That will be nice : )
Now it will be just a matter of finding out which CD I burned all the
screenshots onto...
> Do you mean that MW3 Pirate's Moon looks much better then MW3 original
> or even better then MW4?? I don't have Pirate's Moon, seems I missed a
> great Mech Warrior game?
Aff. The fireworks and explosions look MUCH better in Pirate's Moon (PsM)
than in MW3. Believe it or not, the original MW3 used purely vertex-lighting
(a la the "fast" option in Quake III). PsM adds lightmaps and particle
effects, spewing colored lighting and realistic flames in all directions.
Anyway, once I update the web site, you will know what I mean.
BTW, in case you haven't heard, PsM was, for a long time, very difficult to
find. Pre-owned copies in good condition were going for $80-$120 on eBay.
Infogrames later released MW3 and PsM in a "gold" edition for $20.
> That's amazing! Could it be Polish is also single byte while Japanese
> or Taiwanese are two bytes which can not be read by Activision
> games? I've never tried other single bytes language Windows since
> the only single bytes language I know is English. And I've never seen
> other single bytes language Windows available in either Singapore or
> Taiwan.
My Polish friend tells me that all of the games, with the exception of HG2,
ran flawlessly on his Polish Win98. Due to the high cost of Internet access,
he doesn't proactively download new DirectX releases. If a game needs it, it
will be included on the CD anyway. The CD version is also always the
"redist" package, containing all the localized languages.
> Can't get you here.....so I may not be able to answer your question
> but give you other comments instead..I think you are just asking if
> Monster 3D II version contain the bugs fixed by 1.4 right? I did
> not pay attention to non-technical related bugs. For the technical
> bugs, I don't remember I've encountered to any.
Hmm, check the v1.4 patch's readme file for the list of fixed technical
bugs, and see if your hardware configuration were prone to having those
bugs. Do you still have the Battlezone Monster3D Edition lying around?
> Yes, I did that before. But I'm looking for a more simple way to play
> original Activision games so I can play their games on my current system,
> no matter what this Windows 9x is, just like other company's games. So
> I can start original Activision games just after playing other company's
> games or just after work.
A simple reboot takes too long for you? I would even go as far as running a
dual-boot setup with Taiwanese WinXP and American Win98. All the games would
be installed under Win98; while all your "work" applications would enjoy the
better memory management and improved stability of XP.
> Actually, my PC is similar. My power supplier is "Taiwan Young Year" 250W.
> I bought it in Singapore and it's made in Taiwan. But I've never heard
> about this company. Before I changed to Athlon XP, I thought this power
> supplier might not have enough power to run my new kits.
I am doing a lot of things that I shouldn't be doing, like running the 5000
rpm CPU fan off the motherboard fan header. The ECS K7S5A may be cheap, but
the company did not skimp on the quality of the components.
> I didn't know this! I thought all Voodoo 2s are equal! I only know that
> both my Monster 3D IIs are equipped with 100MHz EDO RAM chips.
> But Diamond did "overclock" the Monster 3D II a little. The default
> core speed of Monster 3D II is 93MHz. I'll check my brother's Skywell
> Magic 3D II 12MB once I am at home during Lunar New Year. The
> Magic 3D II 12MB was a very late version. At the time my brother
> bought the Magc 3D II, Voodoo 3 was available to market for a while.
> I do have a 3dfx Voodoo 3 3000(AGP, TV out). But I still like Voodoo
> 2s more.
All Voodoo2s are not created equal, especially in the old days, when the
"reference design" was no more than a list of specs and could not be relied
upon to build new cards.
> And a single Voodoo 2 already gets 192bits(!) memory bandwidth due to
> its multi chip design.
No it doesn't. Don't be silly. :-) The multi-chip design consists of a
single pixelFX chip and two texelFX chips (a.k.a. TMUs). Their combined
memory bandwidth is only 64 bits. This is a fact: there were only 64 pins
coming out of each memory chip, and there were no memory redundancy. With
SLI, because there is texture memory redundancy, the effective memory
bandwidth is 128 bits. Even so, framebuffer access is still 64 bits.
> Yes. My Rage II even accelerates Windows NT4.0's OpenGL screen saver (
> no acceleration on Win9X). And it's the only 3D chip can do this among all
> display cards I have. But the 3D Pro Turbo PC2TV can't run Quake II well.
> It's dark and slow(with K6-233, I got 1 frame in about 2 to 3 seconds).
> Unlike workstation apps, games like Quake II require huge fillrate which
> exceed the limit of Rage II.
I never had NT/2K/XP installed in the same system as the Rage II chip, so I
cannot say. However, in Win95, I ran Scitech GLDirect to convert OpenGL
applications to D3D. Quake II in Demo1 ran at about 2 fps before crashing
due to some buffer overflow error. The OGL screensavers crashed outright.
Compare this to my Geforce3, which even accelerates the screensavers in the
stamp-sized preview window in Display Properties, with *FSAA*.
> Now I can't access it, either... sorry about that. I don't know what
> happened. Here is the new link:
>
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/24a183f6/bc/%a7%da%aa%ba%ac%db%c3%af/__hr_sna
> pshot06.jpg?bcQOj_9AdEdQYAPb
Still cannot access it.
> So your system is only a little more convenient then mine since you don't
> have to remove and re-install the Rage but just the Voodoo 3: )
I hardly call that convenient. :-)
> BTW, faxing stuff isn't available on ADSL either:~
That should be fairly obvious. I use a cable modem; non of the DSL problems.
:-)
> > :-) Even more, considering the Rage Pro did not really introduce more
> > features, just a higher clock speed.
>
> How about including Rage I : )
What was the difference between the Rage I and Rage II again? :-)
> I knew that this MB may be one of the best just after I bought the it. I
> was just seeking for a MB which has at least 5 PCI, 1 ISA, 3 SDR
> SDRAM, supporting Athlon XP and is made in Taiwan: )
5 PCI? I thought the KT7A had six:
http://www.anandtech.com/showimage.html?u=http://images.anandtech.com/review
s/motherboards/abit/kt7a-raid/motherboard.jpg
The other choice would have been an Asus A7V133, but I understand the Asus
board came out a bit later than the KT7A, lacked the ISA slot, and did not
have as robust a set of overclocking features.
> I just use the power supplier I mentioned above, the 250W power
> supplier made by "Taiwan Young Year" : )
At least your power supply had a name. Mine just had an unrecognizable logo
with what looks like a peacock on it. :-) The case the PSU came in also
seemed to be tailor-made for the Asus P3V4x, which was the most popular PIII
board at the time (before the CUSL2). When I swapped out the Asus for an ECS
K7S5A, three of my four 5.25" drive bays were left unusable, as the wider
ECS motherboard hit the back of the CD-ROM drives.
> > > Titanium got fog, Mercs D3D didn't. Mercs D3D got dynamic shading of
> > > Mechs. Titanium had no dynamic shading.
> > > Maybe this will be more clear...
>
> > What the hell? One step forward, two steps back?
>
> er..still can't get me?
I understood you. "Two steps back" was an expression for my surprise that
Activision actually downgraded the graphics for Titanium. Mercs D3D HAD fog,
by the way; just play the first training mission.
> I haven't run this game with Athlon XP yet. And does Mercs D3D
> slow down a lot with your Athlon? I can remember that Mercs
> D3D slow down to below 10 fps with K6-233. Can't remember
> how it runs with all my newer CPUs...
My PIII-600 + Voodoo3 actually saw framerates in the teens when the action
got heavy in Mercs D3D. Games coded like shit will still act this way in a
system several generations newer.
> It should be NFS6(Need for Speed 6, or Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2),
> not NFS5. Radeon DDR isn't that bad : )
I stopped play NFS quite a while ago. The developers ruined what was once a
great series. I mean, c'mon, police choppers dropping landmines in your
path?
Have a good Christmas!
--
First of One, Primary Adjunctive Grid Alpha-01