Decreasing emphasis on plots at Bungie?
Ty Klein
In article <scr-ya023060041...@nntp2.mindspring.com>,
s...@mindspring.com (Steve Rose) wrote:
> I just finshed Marathon Infinity, and I have noticed a disturbing trend.
> Each new game from Bungie seems to have less of a plot than the last!
>
> Pathways into Darkness: Great plot, great gameplay, primitive engine, but I
> liked all the items you could use, and the ability to go back an forth
> between levels was great.
>
> Marathon: Good plot, great gameplay, good engine. I missed the ability to
> use different items, and go back and forth between levels.
>
> Marathon II: OK plot, good gameplay, great engine. It didn't seem like much
> thought went into this one. Some levels were good, well thought out, but
> most were just an obstacle.
>
> Marathon Infinity: Plot? What plot? good gameplay, great engine. What the
> hell was I fighting for? And helping kill Bob's???? What's up with that?
Infinity has a very interesting plot,it's just *extremely* difficult to
follow. Go back and read all the terminal with the durandal terminal
browser. Since you can read the whole thing at one time,the story will
make more sense.
--
Ty Klein
'87 RX-7
Steve Rose
I just finshed Marathon Infinity, and I have noticed a disturbing trend.
Each new game from Bungie seems to have less of a plot than the last!
Pathways into Darkness: Great plot, great gameplay, primitive engine, but I
liked all the items you could use, and the ability to go back an forth
between levels was great.
Marathon: Good plot, great gameplay, good engine. I missed the ability to
use different items, and go back and forth between levels.
Marathon II: OK plot, good gameplay, great engine. It didn't seem like much
thought went into this one. Some levels were good, well thought out, but
most were just an obstacle.
Marathon Infinity: Plot? What plot? good gameplay, great engine. What the
hell was I fighting for? And helping kill Bob's???? What's up with that?
I have tried Doom, Hexen, Quake, etc. They suck! No plot at all, and the
interfaces are horrible. Dark Forces was great because it did have a plot,
the weapons were cool, and jumping and ducking were good additions. Duke
Nukem, doesn't have much of a plat, but has style.
Is it just me, or is Bungie lowering the level of their games to the level
of Doom, et al?
Steve
--------------------------------------------
s...@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~scr/scr_Home.html
Michael Lamb
First off, Double Aught Software did Marathon Infinity techinically,
though I'm not sure about the story. Anyway, no matter what
game/movie/book you're doing, sequals will ALWAYS degrade plot-wise.
That's probably a big reason why Bungie isn't continuing the series, and
I believe that is wise. I'd just love to see YOUR story for Infinity :)
Ian J. Ball
In article <mrenigma-121...@news.earthlink.net>,
mren...@earthlink.net (Ty Klein) wrote:
> In article <scr-ya023060041...@nntp2.mindspring.com>,
> s...@mindspring.com (Steve Rose) wrote:
>
> > Marathon Infinity: Plot? What plot? good gameplay, great engine. What the
> > hell was I fighting for? And helping kill Bob's???? What's up with that?
>
> Infinity has a very interesting plot,it's just *extremely* difficult to
> follow. Go back and read all the terminal with the durandal terminal
> browser. Since you can read the whole thing at one time,the story will
> make more sense.
I'd rate it this way: the first half or 2/3 of MI had a good plot, much
better than M2, as you tried to figure out what was going on.
But somewhere in the second half of the game, the plot became, I don't
know, less interesting. And I'm in the camp that thinks the ending was
quite disappointing. We never get an explaination as to what was going on
earlier in the game. And no Leela, which was also disappointing.
Frankly, I'd only rate the first half or so of MI's plot as better than
M2's. But I liked the ending of M2 a lot more, and I think MI runs out of
gas in the last half of the game.
Overall, I guess I'd agree with Steve.
--
Ian J. Ball | Want my TV episode guides or rec.arts.tv FAQ?
Grad Student, UCLA | http://members.aol.com/IJBall/WWW/IJBall.html
IJB...@aol.com | ftp://members.aol.com/IJBall3/FTP/
i...@ucla.edu | "What to do, with time so short?..."
Steve Rose
> That's probably a big reason why Bungie isn't continuing the series, and
> I believe that is wise. I'd just love to see YOUR story for Infinity :)
I just want to see them take their games to the next level. My point is
that they seem to be moving away from that next level of game play, and
toward the mediocrity of the Doom status quo.
--------------------------------------------
s...@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~scr/scr_Home.html
A.S.
In article <IJBall-1311961044500001@mac_rbk_3.chem.ucla.edu>,
IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
> I'd rate it this way: the first half or 2/3 of MI had a good plot, much
> better than M2, as you tried to figure out what was going on.
>
> But somewhere in the second half of the game, the plot became, I don't
> know, less interesting. And I'm in the camp that thinks the ending was
> quite disappointing. We never get an explaination as to what was going on
> earlier in the game. And no Leela, which was also disappointing.
>
> Frankly, I'd only rate the first half or so of MI's plot as better than
> M2's. But I liked the ending of M2 a lot more, and I think MI runs out of
> gas in the last half of the game.
>
> Overall, I guess I'd agree with Steve.
Um, if they told you exactly what happened in the end, it would suck. The
great thing about Marathon's plot is that you can spend month trying to
figure it out. People who expect a plot that reveals all without any
thought on the part of the player would probably enjoy DOOM type games
more than those who like to think about it.
-- A S
bret...@ix.netcom.com
A.S. wrote:
"Um, if they told you exactly what happened in the end, it would suck. The
great thing about Marathon's plot is that you can spend month trying to
figure it out. People who expect a plot that reveals all without any
thought on the part of the player would probably enjoy DOOM type games
more than those who like to think about it."
Well, there is a difference between a game with no plot whatsoever (DOOM -
all it has is a premise, not a plot) and a game with a plot so vague that it could
mean just about anything. And, yes, a plot should challenge the mind and not be
simple and layed out. Still, Infinity is just so every-which-way, that it almost
becomes the illusion of a plot.
Brett Siler
Grendel
In article <look-14119...@cyber061.cyberspc.mb.ca>, lo...@it.up
(A.S.) wrote:
> In article <IJBall-1311961044500001@mac_rbk_3.chem.ucla.edu>,
> IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
>
> > I'd rate it this way: the first half or 2/3 of MI had a good plot, much
> > better than M2, as you tried to figure out what was going on.
> >
> > But somewhere in the second half of the game, the plot became, I don't
> > know, less interesting. And I'm in the camp that thinks the ending was
> > quite disappointing. We never get an explaination as to what was going on
> > earlier in the game. And no Leela, which was also disappointing.
> >
> > Frankly, I'd only rate the first half or so of MI's plot as better than
> > M2's. But I liked the ending of M2 a lot more, and I think MI runs out of
> > gas in the last half of the game.
> >
> > Overall, I guess I'd agree with Steve.
>
> Um, if they told you exactly what happened in the end, it would suck. The
> great thing about Marathon's plot is that you can spend month trying to
> figure it out. People who expect a plot that reveals all without any
> thought on the part of the player would probably enjoy DOOM type games
> more than those who like to think about it.
>
Personally, I like the ending in Marathon Infinity the best of them all.
<grin>
I thought I'd throw in my opinion here, as one of the primary creators of
the Marathon story. I can see why people would think that the Infinity
story gets weaker towards the end. Knowing this, I know that as a
storyteller I have failed somewhat. But I can also assure you that the
end of the story does the difficult trick of actually ending the
story(something that we forgot to do in Marathon 1 and 2.), although what
happens exactly is subtle.
As for Double Aught and our opinions of story (the universally accepted
Double Aught view):
Read my lips:
Computer games tell stories.
That's what they're for.
Later,
Greg K
---------------------
head tool
00
double aught software
www.doubleaught.com
---------------------
A.S.
In article <328BDE...@ix.netcom.com>, bret...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> A.S. wrote:
> "Um, if they told you exactly what happened in the end, it would suck. The
> great thing about Marathon's plot is that you can spend month trying to
> figure it out. People who expect a plot that reveals all without any
> thought on the part of the player would probably enjoy DOOM type games
> more than those who like to think about it."
>
> Well, there is a difference between a game with no plot whatsoever (DOOM -
> all it has is a premise, not a plot) and a game with a plot so vague
that it could
> mean just about anything. And, yes, a plot should challenge the mind and
not be
> simple and layed out. Still, Infinity is just so every-which-way, that
it almost
> becomes the illusion of a plot.
>
> Brett Siler
In two months, go to the Marathon Story Page and tell me that.
DA did a fantastic job on the plot.
-- A S